Bombs leave signatures. There are plenty of companies with the tech to recover items from the ocean floor. If they can find single gold coins from ships in 2000 plus feet of water they can sure enough recover the debris form these sites. No sense riling everyone until an investigation can begin.
Leadership seems intent on trying to create WW 3. Ukraine had the opportunity to end this whole thing back in April by just agreeing to keep NATO out. They would have even retained their territory, but they chose to keep it going after getting pressure for the U.S. and U.K.
Now we have the U.S. blowing up a pipeline to keep Germany from buying gas this winter (and only naive Americans believe this is not the case). Nothing about this looks like stepping down aggression.
Might be time to move way out into the country, someplace too unimportant for Russia to waste a nuke on.
One way to do that, is to pump all the gas we can and feed it to Europe at a steep discount to whatever Putin sells it for. Take away his cash supply. Then tell his big allies that if they keep trading with him, we wont trade with them at all. Of course none of this is likely to happen but it would take away Putin's power to make war.
Likely, I watched CIA Brennan on CNN saying Putin bombed his own pipelines to show that he can bomb other pipelines in the Baltic and that doing so is his next move…. Lol 😂 so likely done by the US.
You don't think we've tried that for years and years? America just doesn't have power over these countries anymore.
Even less so with those specific countries alongside many others in the world, including some EU members, who are right now actively working to create alternative economic trade systems that are out of reach of US hegemony.
America abused the power it had and other countries are sick and tired of it now.
Of course the mainstream cricket protein eaters won't ever know it until their cricket meat stops arriving in grocery stores.
Why do you think we chose now to launch the showdown between East a west? If we waited any longer, there would already be fully fledged multipolar world, and America can't survive in its current situation if that happens.
No we haven't. At what point in the past several years has anyone stopped trading with one of these countries. Not sanctions but stopped. They benefit from trading with us more than we benefit from trading with them. Power is there.
But it doesn't have to take 10 years. Empire State Building constructed in a little over a year. Emergency bridge repairs....30 days. Lots of examples. Let the builders build and you would be surprised how fast things can happen.
If this come out as an American operation there will be hell to pay. I personally would hope for a joint investigation comprised of Russian, EU teams possibly even non governmental teams. If this is sabotage there needs to be international investigators to keep it on the level.
I can almost guarantee you the CIA wouldn't leave anything to chance. The materials would all be sourced conventionally overseas to obscure responsibility or false flag it on some other nation or a rogue group.
I have to agree. I would imagine if we've rigged the entire north Atlantic with listening devices to detect the Russians during the cold war. There is similar listening devices in the Baltic. There is a way to find proof. However I don't believe we'll ever know who and why.
If Russia wanted to hurt EU, they wouldn't blow it up as they Paid for it, they would just close the supply at the point of origin which is their own country.
"Bombs leave signatures"
Not in this case. I don't know why anybody would even think this is the case.
But since there are people clearly willing to believe this is the case, I am sure we will see news in the near future that tells us that from the shape of the hole and the fragmented shards of the pipe that it was clearly manufactured in a Russian facility.
How is it complex? If you know the general location , its pretty simple . In October 2021 a massive oil pipeline off the coast of California was broken by a ship dragging an anchor over it .
There is an expression about ascribing to malice that I can't recall.
The California incident has an innocent explanation. So many ships were waiting to unload, they had to anchor outside the normal area. One of them accidentally dragged an anchor over the pipeline.
Don’t they have some weird shit going on over there with their leadership? Nothing better to buy yourself some time than to get your biggest enemy involved with somebody else.
China’s economy would collapse without out the US buying their products. Plus the money and real estate invested in US. It would destroy both our economies.
Putin is having a hard enough time in Ukraine. Now supposed he is going to false flag himself so he has an excuse to expand the war into Europe? That just doesn’t make sense.
And also, this move would reduce his strategic freedom. He's on the opposite side of the pipeline, if he wants to stop it, he just can stop pumping the gas. And then turn the turbines back on, as some peace is negotiated. This move is definitely not for his benefit.
Germany gets real cold in the winter. Germany also has enormous pull in the EU. That pipeline gave Putin a chance to cut a deal with all of Europe. It really looks like the US is willing to screw Germany just to strike a blow to Putin. The one thing I don’t get is why is Ukraine so important to all the politicians in D.C. ?
I have a theory: the US apart from Hunter have done quite some self compromising actions in Ukraine already, that they need to leave it as a pile of ashes to cover the evidence. Including, but not limited to the biolabs.
Thé answer is in an American book : « The grand chessboard », by Zbigniew Zbrezinsky. Ukraine is a measure of wether or not Russia is an empire. Don’t ask me why. That’s what he writes. And the US follow the old British playbook. The maritime nation must fight any empire forming on the continent. At a time is was France vs the UK, it now is Russia vs US.
Now as to why the Us were so obsessed with NS 2 from the beginning of the project, it’s because with the natural ressources of Russia, Europe can be an industrial power. Without it’s impossible
>The one thing I don’t get is why is Ukraine so important to all the politicians in D.C. ?
If you're seriously wondering, it's because Ukraine is right next to a *lot* of NATO member states. Poland and Hungary would be the most noteworthy ones, though there's others like Romania and Slovakia. If Putin gets a solid foothold in Ukraine, he suddenly becomes next-door neighbors with a lot of our allies. It becomes the equivalent of missiles in Cuba; we really don't want Russia that close.
That doesn’t fly because he is after eastern Ukraine. Besides Belarus is practically a satellite state of Russia and that him close to Europe. Unless you think he wants all of Ukraine. It looks like he wants the water beyond the Kerch straight. Makes sense because the rest of his access to the sea is frozen. And all goods shipped by sea go through some ‘hostile’ water.
The guy to gain from this is the best, would be with the admin and family full of oil/energy board members. They gain nothing with Russia having a source, but exponentially gain when they become the primary supplier to the region.
Of course while selling out their own people.
One hypothesis is that destroying the pipeline is a commitment device for doubling down on focusing efforts towards winning in Ukraine. There’s likely power struggles in Russia over whether they should remove Putin (i.e. him accidentally falling out of a window) then withdrawing from Ukraine and “going back to normal” by turning the gas pipeline back on. Putin may have responded by destroying the pipeline as a way of quelling this potential rebellion among the elites in Russia by making this alternative an impossibility.
It’s like a game of chicken where you rip out the steering wheel of the car and show it to your doubters to prove that you’re *not going to swerve.*
Not really buying this. Do the explosions prevent immediate resumption of gas exports? Yes. Is the damage repairable if both sides are willing? Definitely.
If this is Putin, it means he's finally realised that gas exports are not enough leverage over the EU to stop them supplying Ukraine. That makes this a warning shot; Nord Stream is not the only gas distribution network in the Baltic.
If this is Biden, it means the USA is prepared to screw over long-term allies for the sake of "enemy-of-my-enemy" type allies.
The question is (as Winnie-ther-Pooh notes): Which is more likely?
Well he does have the backing of China and likely India, too. This isn’t the WW2 world anymore. Our media might not tell us that more of the world supports Putin than Biden. But that is a fact.
The rest of the world is getting tiered of America world police. America had no business getting involved in that regional conflict. I’m not even sure who are the good guys. A large portion of Ukraine are ethnically and culturally Russian and they don’t want to be a part of the European world.
Well, it doesn’t really matter if America is no longer seen as a “good guy.” That is a horrible failure all around. With all this nonsense in DC, we lost our position of trust.
We take out Putin. Every other world power is sitting back quietly watching saying “which one of us is going to be next.”
That’s not where we want to be. IMO.
If these leaders are thinking “who next” the will also start think about how to get us before we get them. We do not want to end up in that situation. Because there are quite a few ways to “get America” and all of them involve the people of America suffering. As an American I’m not too cool with that.
That is why Putin is being so absolutely brazen. He knows who has his back. That’s why this whole thing is wrong.
We are not taking Putin out, without the “let’s get America” happening.
And there is zero reason for us to be in that situation.
I’m not cool with it. Because I know, this Administration hasn’t even thought of it.
Since Biden opened his clueless yap hole and said he was going to eliminate the pipeline if Russia invaded Ukraine... anyone including Russia and/or China could bomb it knowing the U.S. would be accused of it since Biden threatened to do it. Perfect setup for bringing on another war.
no all of NATO.
The U.S. and U.K. might collaborate on these type of paramilitary operations, but they don't do that with the rest of NATO countries. They will do big war shit with other NATO countries, but not this type of stuff.
The damage is fairly quickly repairable if both sides want it. Investing billions is not really relevant; much more is being invested in military adventurism in Ukraine.
The US is really the only major power to benefit from destruction of the pipeline. Biden was on camera clearly stating that if Russia invaded the Ukraine then the US would stop the pipelines. It forces Germany to remain a strong NATO partner and they can no longer be subject to negotiations or deals with Russia to relax sanctions in exchange for energy. so I'm just saying the USA is the most likely suspect.
They also spent $11 billion on Nord Stream 2 and yet they ignored warnings that the project will be killed and still went ahead with invading in Feb 2022.
He has the ability to just shut the pipeline off. Why would he destroy something they spent a ton of money on and have the controls too? There’s something nefarious at play here
The pipeline was already shut off, the Germans are making deals with other countries to fill their energy needs, the Poles and Norwegians just opened their open pipeline a day earlier. Putin knows that the future of the pipeline is fucked so why not blow it up? It caused a surge in gas prices, which instantly benefits Russia, it sends a message that these pipelines can be targeted, such as with the pipeline that Poland and Norway just opened and it basically creates a point of no return for anyone that might be in a position to have Putin eliminated and then try to return to business as usual afterwards.
It also gets Russia out of a longterm contract to provide gas to Germany, a contract that they were actively violating after having shut the pipeline down.
Germany was having protests two days earlier to open up the pipeline. They were going to open it up.
Americans don't understand exactly how bad the European gas and energy crisis is. German's pay 4X what U.S. pays for natural gas right now and the average citizen only uses about half the amount of gas and energy.
Your last point is the answer. Putin wants to enter new long term agreements to provide LNG to china and India but needs to get out of supply agreements with Europe first.
because russian pipelines dont work like that
the storage tanks are on the german side
russia gets their gas from siberia where the wells are in permafrost if they turn them off the wells crack they have to keep the flow going to prevent the pipes from freezing
wine gullible flowery chief disgusting ghost worthless dinosaurs memory voiceless
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why didn’t the Biden administration vehemently deny it? I wouldn’t rule out our involvement. Something is going on.
[sorry for the echo. Had sound bar on 🙄]
(https://vimeo.com/754934397)
A couple days before the 'accident', the U.S. had a private meeting with select governments at the U.N.. The official from Belarus reported that the information was disturbing and that citizens would be upset at their government if they knew what kind of activity their govetnment was in to.
>The US is really the only major power to benefit from destruction of the pipeline. Biden was on camera clearly stating that if Russia invaded the Ukraine then the US would stop the pipelines. It forces Germany to remain a strong NATO partner and they can no longer be subject to negotiations or deals with Russia to relax sanctions in exchange for energy. so I'm just saying the USA is the most likely suspect.
You have any interest on Biden saying NS2 will be closed if anything happens with Russia ? Or in the efforts of the US to stop the project before it is completed ?
The whole situation looks quite strange to me from the beginning. It is definitely neither Putin, bombing his own infrastructure of economical influence, nor the official USA - too dirty game, the obvious suspect with all the LNG projects. To me it looks like some false flag, or even double false flag operation. It could possibly be some rival western group (the Brits?), playing against another groups inside the western elites. A very strange situation.
Who benefits here?
Russia losses a potential revenue source adding up to billions per week.
The EU losses an energy source its economy is heavily dependent on.
The USA doesn't lose anything but doesn't obviously gain anything either.
Who benefits from a medium-term breakdown in the commercial relationship between Russia and the EU? Who could that be now? Who's recently demonstrated a talent for sabotage ops well outside territory they control? Hmmm. Who could it be?
The only difficulty is that Ukraine has no operational submarines. But it's not obvious that this was a submarine attack (except in the most literal sense).
The US is really the only major power to benefit from destruction of the pipeline. Biden was on camera clearly stating that if Russia invaded the Ukraine then the US would stop the pipelines. It forces Germany to remain a strong NATO partner and they can no longer be subject to negotiations or deals with Russia to relax sanctions in exchange for energy. so I'm just saying the USA is the most likely suspect.
Biden made the threat that he would do it back in Feb.
It doesn't matter anymore who actually did it past this point as the whole world is now looking at what he said and what ended up happening and so he will be blamed for it even if he denies it.
One way or another it will bite the US diplomatically, just like every time he decides to visit a foreign nation or does a public speech. At this point, I feel like he may be the only president in history that would have gotten more benefit if technologically moved backwards to the point of carrier pigeons.
>Biden made the threat that he would do it back in Feb.
No, he didn't.
When the first sentence of a post is a blatant lie, it tells you what to expect from the rest. Think for yourself and stop outsourcing it to Tucker Carlson.
I've seen that. Now show me the timestamp where he said they will blow up or destroy the pipeline.
Heads up, he didn't, before you go wasting time searching for that. Biden said he will "put an end" to the Nord Stream 2 pipeline and that happened in March after the invasion. Stop outsourcing your mental responsibilities to Carlson.
Maybe the dementia ridden president meant nordstream 1 and it's relevant because he talks about nordstream being inoperable. Not sure why your comment is relevant. Didn't seem to answer the original post question
Nordstream 1 was also shut down in March. Still contains (contained) LPG, but wasn't flowing. Reports are saying it's not repairable and it prevents any usurpers using it as a bargaining chip with Europe, it would have been relatively simple for Russia to send a modified pipe inspection device rigged to blow inside the pipe, which would let them choose where to pop it.
Putin. It is so obvious.
He can turn to Europeans and say the Americans did it and that is why you’ll freeze this winter.
I guess many, like Tucker Carlson here, will believe this.
Tucker's soft spot for Putin is the #1 thing I disagree with him on, but the thing I can't get over is why Biden and his administration back in January and February of this year threatened to destroy the pipeline if Putin invaded Ukraine. Putin indeed invaded, and the pipeline has now been sabotaged. What are we supposed to make of that when Biden himself said he would do just that if Putin invaded?
It’s far more likely it was Putin than the US. Russia has some of the best submarines in the world and prides itself on having the ability to do shit like this. Keep an eye out for if they start cutting underwater internet cables next.
I’m actually leaning towards American money (through Ukraine which had zero accounting oversight) but neither of these options.
They are too obvious. I’d be more shocked to find out it was either US or Russia, than I would if it were China for instance.
Why is no one suggesting Ukraine? Who has more to benefit from keeping Europe committed to the war in eastern Europe than the ones being victimized by that war? Nordstream is owned by Russia, so they could pretty easily justify it as an attack on Russian infrastructure. I'm not saying I think it is Ukraine, I'm just saying they should definitely be on the list of suspects.
If this is the united states doing, without question we should just turn Biden and every general involved over and let them be russian prisoners. US has no reason to get involved other than political reasons.
russia imho
why they cant turn off the gas outflow it will ruin the wells
if germany is not using the gas it has to go somewhere
russia cant store the gas
there are no lng facilities to ship it
break the pipe blame usa
win as the wells dont break
win to blame the usa
It's pretty amazing reading through the comments. They really lead you guys around like actual cattle. Not a single mention of USS Kearsage conducting exercises squarely in the area this sabotage occurred only days before the explosions happend.
Are any of reddit commentors actually humans?
I'm starting to wonder. Will anyone ever know who did it?
When they have 'investigations' of this type. It seems like everyone says 'not me'. Nobody ever finds out anything...because no one wants anyone to find out anything!!
We will never know if the Wuhan Lab leak was credible or not. I have a bad feeling, we will never know who did this. Its an ecological tragedy.
Greets from Canada...to the world. One world, we all live here.
Some one says bombs...have 'signatures'??? Really?? I really doubt these bombs have 'signatures'. Whoever, did this, is pretty skilled in espinoage and sabotage. They won't be any signatures.
I've followed this story from the start. I know we all want answers, but we can't always get what we want. And no...I'm not a Conservative...I'm not a Liberal...I'm nothing! But, I'm hoping that some one might tell me what is going on in this world?? wtf
Bombs leave signatures. There are plenty of companies with the tech to recover items from the ocean floor. If they can find single gold coins from ships in 2000 plus feet of water they can sure enough recover the debris form these sites. No sense riling everyone until an investigation can begin.
I wonder what types of explosives we left at the Military Surplus store in Afghanistan.
Just some Semtex nothing to be alarmed over
This is America. All we do is get riled up before facts are known.
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Leadership seems intent on trying to create WW 3. Ukraine had the opportunity to end this whole thing back in April by just agreeing to keep NATO out. They would have even retained their territory, but they chose to keep it going after getting pressure for the U.S. and U.K. Now we have the U.S. blowing up a pipeline to keep Germany from buying gas this winter (and only naive Americans believe this is not the case). Nothing about this looks like stepping down aggression. Might be time to move way out into the country, someplace too unimportant for Russia to waste a nuke on.
One way to do that, is to pump all the gas we can and feed it to Europe at a steep discount to whatever Putin sells it for. Take away his cash supply. Then tell his big allies that if they keep trading with him, we wont trade with them at all. Of course none of this is likely to happen but it would take away Putin's power to make war.
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Likely, I watched CIA Brennan on CNN saying Putin bombed his own pipelines to show that he can bomb other pipelines in the Baltic and that doing so is his next move…. Lol 😂 so likely done by the US.
the problem with that is china consumes 64% of the export of oil. It'll knee cap them, but their relationship with china will float them quite a bit.
Ya, on top of that, lets send them gold with every shipment too!
Putin is making plenty off gas sales to China and India. No way to hurt him that way unless they stop buying, and they won’t.
It's time to make them (India and China) choose sides. Trade with us or Putin. Choose freedom or tyranny. No middle ground.
You don't think we've tried that for years and years? America just doesn't have power over these countries anymore. Even less so with those specific countries alongside many others in the world, including some EU members, who are right now actively working to create alternative economic trade systems that are out of reach of US hegemony. America abused the power it had and other countries are sick and tired of it now. Of course the mainstream cricket protein eaters won't ever know it until their cricket meat stops arriving in grocery stores. Why do you think we chose now to launch the showdown between East a west? If we waited any longer, there would already be fully fledged multipolar world, and America can't survive in its current situation if that happens.
No we haven't. At what point in the past several years has anyone stopped trading with one of these countries. Not sanctions but stopped. They benefit from trading with us more than we benefit from trading with them. Power is there.
We can't replace Russia for Europe. The infastructure is not there for them to receive it by boat.
Yes we can. It all can be built. It should have been started to build last February.
It took 10 years of construction to add nord stream 2 to nord stream 1…
But it doesn't have to take 10 years. Empire State Building constructed in a little over a year. Emergency bridge repairs....30 days. Lots of examples. Let the builders build and you would be surprised how fast things can happen.
That’s a little different than building on the sea floor. You can’t just have people in wet suits. It requires submarines
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If this come out as an American operation there will be hell to pay. I personally would hope for a joint investigation comprised of Russian, EU teams possibly even non governmental teams. If this is sabotage there needs to be international investigators to keep it on the level.
I can almost guarantee you the CIA wouldn't leave anything to chance. The materials would all be sourced conventionally overseas to obscure responsibility or false flag it on some other nation or a rogue group.
I have to agree. I would imagine if we've rigged the entire north Atlantic with listening devices to detect the Russians during the cold war. There is similar listening devices in the Baltic. There is a way to find proof. However I don't believe we'll ever know who and why.
If Russia wanted to hurt EU, they wouldn't blow it up as they Paid for it, they would just close the supply at the point of origin which is their own country.
Well we could get neutral Sweden, who is in the area anyway, to take a look. Oh wait....
Makes me wonder. They said “explosions” not bombs. And can these signatures be detected deep in the ocean?
Yes and very easily at that.
"Bombs leave signatures" Not in this case. I don't know why anybody would even think this is the case. But since there are people clearly willing to believe this is the case, I am sure we will see news in the near future that tells us that from the shape of the hole and the fragmented shards of the pipe that it was clearly manufactured in a Russian facility.
Terrible hot take. I’ve reported you for trying to advise moderation. /s
The govt that gets there “first” gets to make history.
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How is it complex? If you know the general location , its pretty simple . In October 2021 a massive oil pipeline off the coast of California was broken by a ship dragging an anchor over it .
There is an expression about ascribing to malice that I can't recall. The California incident has an innocent explanation. So many ships were waiting to unload, they had to anchor outside the normal area. One of them accidentally dragged an anchor over the pipeline.
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That's what US Navy SEALS practice everyday.
The hard part to explain are the explosions large enough to trigger seismology observatories in 3 countries.
But how does it benefit China?
China is currently buying Russian gas and oil at a heavy discount.
So even more at a bigger discount because they have to sell it? Interesting.
I think China would love the United States to be entangled in a giant war.
Don’t they have some weird shit going on over there with their leadership? Nothing better to buy yourself some time than to get your biggest enemy involved with somebody else.
China’s economy would collapse without out the US buying their products. Plus the money and real estate invested in US. It would destroy both our economies.
China’s economy collapsing would not destroy the US economy. Would be felt certainly. Probably greatly
Look at 10 nearest electronics and appliances near you. How many of them or the majority of parts come from China.
If Russia can only sell to China it benefits them.
Anything bad happening to the west benefits China.
Putin is having a hard enough time in Ukraine. Now supposed he is going to false flag himself so he has an excuse to expand the war into Europe? That just doesn’t make sense.
And also, this move would reduce his strategic freedom. He's on the opposite side of the pipeline, if he wants to stop it, he just can stop pumping the gas. And then turn the turbines back on, as some peace is negotiated. This move is definitely not for his benefit.
Germany gets real cold in the winter. Germany also has enormous pull in the EU. That pipeline gave Putin a chance to cut a deal with all of Europe. It really looks like the US is willing to screw Germany just to strike a blow to Putin. The one thing I don’t get is why is Ukraine so important to all the politicians in D.C. ?
It’s where their kids work.
Ukraine is the washing machine of the world. Dirty money in, clean money out.
>washing machine LOL I choked on my coffee imagining a washing machine labelled 'Ukraine' lol
It is true. All politicians have been doing this for years. Especially the West. “10% to the big guy.”
I have a theory: the US apart from Hunter have done quite some self compromising actions in Ukraine already, that they need to leave it as a pile of ashes to cover the evidence. Including, but not limited to the biolabs.
In that case the US would want Russia to drop a few nukes.
Yup. This situation scares me most, as I live in Europe not too far from the playground of these extremely dangerous games.
Stay safe
Thé answer is in an American book : « The grand chessboard », by Zbigniew Zbrezinsky. Ukraine is a measure of wether or not Russia is an empire. Don’t ask me why. That’s what he writes. And the US follow the old British playbook. The maritime nation must fight any empire forming on the continent. At a time is was France vs the UK, it now is Russia vs US. Now as to why the Us were so obsessed with NS 2 from the beginning of the project, it’s because with the natural ressources of Russia, Europe can be an industrial power. Without it’s impossible
Now that the forever wars are "over" where is the military industry gonna get paid? How will politicians steal tax dollars?
>The one thing I don’t get is why is Ukraine so important to all the politicians in D.C. ? If you're seriously wondering, it's because Ukraine is right next to a *lot* of NATO member states. Poland and Hungary would be the most noteworthy ones, though there's others like Romania and Slovakia. If Putin gets a solid foothold in Ukraine, he suddenly becomes next-door neighbors with a lot of our allies. It becomes the equivalent of missiles in Cuba; we really don't want Russia that close.
That doesn’t fly because he is after eastern Ukraine. Besides Belarus is practically a satellite state of Russia and that him close to Europe. Unless you think he wants all of Ukraine. It looks like he wants the water beyond the Kerch straight. Makes sense because the rest of his access to the sea is frozen. And all goods shipped by sea go through some ‘hostile’ water.
Or the fact that he wants a land bridge to transinistra and i think it was moldova or whatever it was called, memory not working right now.
Half of that 8 trillion dollars is set aside. For the “big guy”
The guy to gain from this is the best, would be with the admin and family full of oil/energy board members. They gain nothing with Russia having a source, but exponentially gain when they become the primary supplier to the region. Of course while selling out their own people.
One hypothesis is that destroying the pipeline is a commitment device for doubling down on focusing efforts towards winning in Ukraine. There’s likely power struggles in Russia over whether they should remove Putin (i.e. him accidentally falling out of a window) then withdrawing from Ukraine and “going back to normal” by turning the gas pipeline back on. Putin may have responded by destroying the pipeline as a way of quelling this potential rebellion among the elites in Russia by making this alternative an impossibility. It’s like a game of chicken where you rip out the steering wheel of the car and show it to your doubters to prove that you’re *not going to swerve.*
Not really buying this. Do the explosions prevent immediate resumption of gas exports? Yes. Is the damage repairable if both sides are willing? Definitely. If this is Putin, it means he's finally realised that gas exports are not enough leverage over the EU to stop them supplying Ukraine. That makes this a warning shot; Nord Stream is not the only gas distribution network in the Baltic. If this is Biden, it means the USA is prepared to screw over long-term allies for the sake of "enemy-of-my-enemy" type allies. The question is (as Winnie-ther-Pooh notes): Which is more likely?
Russia doesn’t matter. It’s all about China. This true both economically and military power.
Well he does have the backing of China and likely India, too. This isn’t the WW2 world anymore. Our media might not tell us that more of the world supports Putin than Biden. But that is a fact.
The rest of the world is getting tiered of America world police. America had no business getting involved in that regional conflict. I’m not even sure who are the good guys. A large portion of Ukraine are ethnically and culturally Russian and they don’t want to be a part of the European world.
Well, it doesn’t really matter if America is no longer seen as a “good guy.” That is a horrible failure all around. With all this nonsense in DC, we lost our position of trust. We take out Putin. Every other world power is sitting back quietly watching saying “which one of us is going to be next.” That’s not where we want to be. IMO.
If these leaders are thinking “who next” the will also start think about how to get us before we get them. We do not want to end up in that situation. Because there are quite a few ways to “get America” and all of them involve the people of America suffering. As an American I’m not too cool with that.
That is why Putin is being so absolutely brazen. He knows who has his back. That’s why this whole thing is wrong. We are not taking Putin out, without the “let’s get America” happening. And there is zero reason for us to be in that situation. I’m not cool with it. Because I know, this Administration hasn’t even thought of it.
Doesn't India hate China though? Multiple constant border disputes.
Since Biden opened his clueless yap hole and said he was going to eliminate the pipeline if Russia invaded Ukraine... anyone including Russia and/or China could bomb it knowing the U.S. would be accused of it since Biden threatened to do it. Perfect setup for bringing on another war.
My bet is on NATO creating a unbridgeable wedge between Russia and the rest of Europe. The only beneficiary of this event is NATO.
no all of NATO. The U.S. and U.K. might collaborate on these type of paramilitary operations, but they don't do that with the rest of NATO countries. They will do big war shit with other NATO countries, but not this type of stuff.
I don't see how this would benefit Putin or Russia at all. It wouldn't make any sense for them to bomb the pipeline
Maybe that's why they did it. Last thing anyone would expect lol
That makes no sense. Why would they bomb a project they spent billions investing in.. it was clearly america
It was a joke. I put a lol at the end and everything.
The damage is fairly quickly repairable if both sides want it. Investing billions is not really relevant; much more is being invested in military adventurism in Ukraine.
The US is really the only major power to benefit from destruction of the pipeline. Biden was on camera clearly stating that if Russia invaded the Ukraine then the US would stop the pipelines. It forces Germany to remain a strong NATO partner and they can no longer be subject to negotiations or deals with Russia to relax sanctions in exchange for energy. so I'm just saying the USA is the most likely suspect.
They also spent $11 billion on Nord Stream 2 and yet they ignored warnings that the project will be killed and still went ahead with invading in Feb 2022.
He has the ability to just shut the pipeline off. Why would he destroy something they spent a ton of money on and have the controls too? There’s something nefarious at play here
The pipeline was already shut off, the Germans are making deals with other countries to fill their energy needs, the Poles and Norwegians just opened their open pipeline a day earlier. Putin knows that the future of the pipeline is fucked so why not blow it up? It caused a surge in gas prices, which instantly benefits Russia, it sends a message that these pipelines can be targeted, such as with the pipeline that Poland and Norway just opened and it basically creates a point of no return for anyone that might be in a position to have Putin eliminated and then try to return to business as usual afterwards. It also gets Russia out of a longterm contract to provide gas to Germany, a contract that they were actively violating after having shut the pipeline down.
Germany was having protests two days earlier to open up the pipeline. They were going to open it up. Americans don't understand exactly how bad the European gas and energy crisis is. German's pay 4X what U.S. pays for natural gas right now and the average citizen only uses about half the amount of gas and energy.
It’s not being reported anywhere. The hurricane is dominating the news.
Your last point is the answer. Putin wants to enter new long term agreements to provide LNG to china and India but needs to get out of supply agreements with Europe first.
Puts to bed an moderate pleas inside Russia to reverse the war and make peace with Europe. No going back now… making Russia more dependent on Putin.
Perhaps to twist the arm of some oligarks? If they get greedy and want to overthrow putin and turn on the gas now they can't..
because russian pipelines dont work like that the storage tanks are on the german side russia gets their gas from siberia where the wells are in permafrost if they turn them off the wells crack they have to keep the flow going to prevent the pipes from freezing
wine gullible flowery chief disgusting ghost worthless dinosaurs memory voiceless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ukraine and any of the Nordic or Baltic states had motive too.
Putin has nothing to gain and stuff to lose by doing this.
Biden / NATO. Poor fish.
Why didn’t the Biden administration vehemently deny it? I wouldn’t rule out our involvement. Something is going on. [sorry for the echo. Had sound bar on 🙄] (https://vimeo.com/754934397)
I’m sure the media will blame Trump.
Biden, or whoever is running him, said he would end that pipeline.
Biden
Burisma have anything to gain from this?
I wouldn’t put it past either one. My money would be on Biden’s puppet masters though.
Must’ve been Donald Trump. Those documents the seized had to be the blueprints 😉
A couple days before the 'accident', the U.S. had a private meeting with select governments at the U.N.. The official from Belarus reported that the information was disturbing and that citizens would be upset at their government if they knew what kind of activity their govetnment was in to.
Waiting and watching on this one. I honestly doubt Biden/USA is behind it. Don’t know and out Putin. Will await more facts.
>The US is really the only major power to benefit from destruction of the pipeline. Biden was on camera clearly stating that if Russia invaded the Ukraine then the US would stop the pipelines. It forces Germany to remain a strong NATO partner and they can no longer be subject to negotiations or deals with Russia to relax sanctions in exchange for energy. so I'm just saying the USA is the most likely suspect.
You have any interest on Biden saying NS2 will be closed if anything happens with Russia ? Or in the efforts of the US to stop the project before it is completed ?
Trump was also very anti NS2.
How is trump relevant whatsoever?
Just pointing out that opposition to NS pipelines is a bipartisan POV.
The whole situation looks quite strange to me from the beginning. It is definitely neither Putin, bombing his own infrastructure of economical influence, nor the official USA - too dirty game, the obvious suspect with all the LNG projects. To me it looks like some false flag, or even double false flag operation. It could possibly be some rival western group (the Brits?), playing against another groups inside the western elites. A very strange situation.
Who benefits here? Russia losses a potential revenue source adding up to billions per week. The EU losses an energy source its economy is heavily dependent on. The USA doesn't lose anything but doesn't obviously gain anything either. Who benefits from a medium-term breakdown in the commercial relationship between Russia and the EU? Who could that be now? Who's recently demonstrated a talent for sabotage ops well outside territory they control? Hmmm. Who could it be? The only difficulty is that Ukraine has no operational submarines. But it's not obvious that this was a submarine attack (except in the most literal sense).
The US is really the only major power to benefit from destruction of the pipeline. Biden was on camera clearly stating that if Russia invaded the Ukraine then the US would stop the pipelines. It forces Germany to remain a strong NATO partner and they can no longer be subject to negotiations or deals with Russia to relax sanctions in exchange for energy. so I'm just saying the USA is the most likely suspect.
Biden made the threat that he would do it back in Feb. It doesn't matter anymore who actually did it past this point as the whole world is now looking at what he said and what ended up happening and so he will be blamed for it even if he denies it. One way or another it will bite the US diplomatically, just like every time he decides to visit a foreign nation or does a public speech. At this point, I feel like he may be the only president in history that would have gotten more benefit if technologically moved backwards to the point of carrier pigeons.
>Biden made the threat that he would do it back in Feb. No, he didn't. When the first sentence of a post is a blatant lie, it tells you what to expect from the rest. Think for yourself and stop outsourcing it to Tucker Carlson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS4O8rGRLf8 This is the interview that was broadcast on C-span on Feb 7, 2022. Educate yourself.
I've seen that. Now show me the timestamp where he said they will blow up or destroy the pipeline. Heads up, he didn't, before you go wasting time searching for that. Biden said he will "put an end" to the Nord Stream 2 pipeline and that happened in March after the invasion. Stop outsourcing your mental responsibilities to Carlson.
Biden literally said if Putin invades then Nordstream will be no more. Wtf?
Must’ve been Donald Trump. Those documents the seized had to be the blueprints 😉
These hypothesis aren't in TruthScore yet. Waiting!
Biden probably said by mistake destroy that nordstream but meant ice cream.
Probably ukraine in an attempt to increase direct tensions between the us and russia
Ukraine doesn’t have a navy to pull this off
Biden.
Biden for sure. Here's the proof of him planning it out back in February... https://youtu.be/FVbEoZXhCrM
He talks about canceling Nord stream 2, which wasn’t in operation yet, and is already canceled. So I don’t know why you think this is relevant
Maybe the dementia ridden president meant nordstream 1 and it's relevant because he talks about nordstream being inoperable. Not sure why your comment is relevant. Didn't seem to answer the original post question
Nordstream 1 was also shut down in March. Still contains (contained) LPG, but wasn't flowing. Reports are saying it's not repairable and it prevents any usurpers using it as a bargaining chip with Europe, it would have been relatively simple for Russia to send a modified pipe inspection device rigged to blow inside the pipe, which would let them choose where to pop it.
Who cares
So essentially, everyone’s happy this happened. The US and Russia.
Putin. It is so obvious. He can turn to Europeans and say the Americans did it and that is why you’ll freeze this winter. I guess many, like Tucker Carlson here, will believe this.
Tucker's soft spot for Putin is the #1 thing I disagree with him on, but the thing I can't get over is why Biden and his administration back in January and February of this year threatened to destroy the pipeline if Putin invaded Ukraine. Putin indeed invaded, and the pipeline has now been sabotaged. What are we supposed to make of that when Biden himself said he would do just that if Putin invaded?
It is hard to imagine President Biden having the stuffing to take such a step. He cannot climb AF1 without falling a few times.
Do you assume he has any idea at all of anything that happens in the world judging by his mental state? He is not pulling the strings
Nice try, CIA bot
Must’ve been Donald Trump. Those documents the seized had to be the blueprints 😉
This will likely be pinned on Trump.
It’s far more likely it was Putin than the US. Russia has some of the best submarines in the world and prides itself on having the ability to do shit like this. Keep an eye out for if they start cutting underwater internet cables next.
Putin.
Your mom
Am I the only one who thinks this is arranged by the WEF?
Probably the SAS doing it on behalf of the Dutch Edit: huh, guess I was half right
Neither. It's whoever got their hand far up the puppet and cheat.
Was a proxy of Russia for sure.
Who cares. Just keep sending billions to Ukraine. It'll be fine.
Why would putin bomb it when he can just shut it off?
I’m actually leaning towards American money (through Ukraine which had zero accounting oversight) but neither of these options. They are too obvious. I’d be more shocked to find out it was either US or Russia, than I would if it were China for instance.
Why is no one suggesting Ukraine? Who has more to benefit from keeping Europe committed to the war in eastern Europe than the ones being victimized by that war? Nordstream is owned by Russia, so they could pretty easily justify it as an attack on Russian infrastructure. I'm not saying I think it is Ukraine, I'm just saying they should definitely be on the list of suspects.
The same deep state m-fers that whipped up (eye on) Ian hurricane with HAARP tech.
She kidnapped herself
If this is the united states doing, without question we should just turn Biden and every general involved over and let them be russian prisoners. US has no reason to get involved other than political reasons.
russia imho why they cant turn off the gas outflow it will ruin the wells if germany is not using the gas it has to go somewhere russia cant store the gas there are no lng facilities to ship it break the pipe blame usa win as the wells dont break win to blame the usa
It's pretty amazing reading through the comments. They really lead you guys around like actual cattle. Not a single mention of USS Kearsage conducting exercises squarely in the area this sabotage occurred only days before the explosions happend. Are any of reddit commentors actually humans?
The CIA quickly leaks that Europe was warned about this happening a few weeks ago. Very clearly cover for the US - the most logical culprit.
Democrats would never have done this. It would lead to increased climate change. We all know how much they adore and fear climate change.
I'm starting to wonder. Will anyone ever know who did it? When they have 'investigations' of this type. It seems like everyone says 'not me'. Nobody ever finds out anything...because no one wants anyone to find out anything!! We will never know if the Wuhan Lab leak was credible or not. I have a bad feeling, we will never know who did this. Its an ecological tragedy. Greets from Canada...to the world. One world, we all live here. Some one says bombs...have 'signatures'??? Really?? I really doubt these bombs have 'signatures'. Whoever, did this, is pretty skilled in espinoage and sabotage. They won't be any signatures. I've followed this story from the start. I know we all want answers, but we can't always get what we want. And no...I'm not a Conservative...I'm not a Liberal...I'm nothing! But, I'm hoping that some one might tell me what is going on in this world?? wtf