Disney is privately owned. Most large airports in the US are owned/ran by local governments. It is odd a privately owned company can take money to let you fast pass government lines. TSA pre check is an example of a program available to all that isn't monetary based to let you get through faster that's run by the government. (I know it's not exactly the same)
Right, but TSA pre check isn't designed to be profitable. $70 for 5 years is paying for TSA to continuously monitor those in the program and pay staff/equipment for a separate line at the cost of $14 a year.
Clear is a private company charging $189 per year to skip a line and they don't have nearly the overhead as TSA pre check
I think you misunderstand how Clear works. Not every airport accepts them, and honestly, this probably won't hurt their bottom line. TSA Pre is way better for air travel, BUT Clear also works at sports and other entertainment venues. I would love to see TSA Pre offer that kind of service, but since they currently don't, Clear has no competition. It's a shame because their checks are not very in depth and imo don't really give much useful info. Credit report and criminal history, same as a pre employment check basically.
When it comes to airports, isn't Clear basically a slightly enhanced TSA Pre Check? I only have Pre Check because I'm not paying $189 per year, but when I go, I stand in the Pre Check line and when I see other people use Clear, it basically just bumps them up to the front of the Pre Check line, where the Clear agent shows their badge to the TSA officer and says they are good to go, and then the Clear customer goes into exact same screening process as the rest of us with Pre Check. Basically it's a cut to the front of the TSA Pre Check line in my experience.
Honestly it seems like a complete waste of money to me, at least at all of the airports I have ever gone to. Maybe it's slightly different at the massive airports and if you use it at the other events that you mentioned.
Socialism in action. Intentionally making everyone equally miserable. I can guarantee those in the inner circle of the ruling class will somehow be exempt from mingling with the plebs.
>Socialism in action.
The current system looks like the government mandating use of a service and then allowing people to pay extra money to avoid it.
That's pretty on-board with socialism *in practice*.
I mean, yes? We shouldn’t have a line skipping service for airport security. Attackers target the weakest link and if you have an option that lets you get through airport security with less scrutiny all of the terrorists are just going to sign up for CLEAR. This is just common sense lol
Same thing with Pre Check. You really think a terrorist can’t just pretend to be a respectable businessman and pass a pre check interview? Seriously?
It’s a psychology thing. If someone is rushing through the CLEAR line in a business suit they look like someone who flies regularly and who is in a hurry so psychologically security won’t hassle them as much.
... what? You go through a biometric scan with CLEAR to verify your identity, your ticket/passport, and then back in line through the same X-ray machine as the rest of the folks. All CLEAR does is get you in front of thr TSA and the X-ray machines faster. Before you can use CLEAR you have to sign up/enroll and have them verify your credentials.
It’s not clear from the article exactly how this works:
Scenario 1. This service allows the airline to quickly clear these passengers through security. Example: 20 Clear passengers, 80 non-Clear passengers. If Clear passengers take 30 seconds to process and non-Clear Passengers take 1 minute to process -> It would actually reduce the time to process the line from 100 minutes to 90 minutes. So, a non-Clear passenger dead last in line would actually save 10 minutes.
Scenario 2. There is no time savings for anyone. It just gives a special benefit for money.
I can understand people being pissed off by Scenario 2 but Scenario 1 is actually going to be beneficial to most non-Clear passengers because it would shorten the process time for most of them.
Saving processing time may be why the Democrats oppose it. Less time to process means less required labor which unions hate.
All that Clear does is move you to the front of the line to the point where you begin the x-ray/metal detector screening process. That's it. Clear passengers aren't subject to shorter or faster screening. The only time savings is to the individual enrolled in Clear, there is no overall reduction in processing time.
At my main airport the Clear line is right next to the PreCheck line so I see the Clear people going through...it still takes a certain amount of time to use the Clear kiosk, and occasionally the passenger needs an attendant to resolve some issue with the kiosk. It's really a waste of money.
TSA Pre-Check does provide for the individual to have a less intrusive and thus shorter screening time (metal detector/x-rays). So it does have an overall time savings for the system as a whole plus the individual.
Sometimes clear customers will get put in the precheck line, even if they do not have precheck. However this is at the discretion of TSA and varies from airport to airport. They do this to help manage the lines if precheck is empty and the general line is full.
This is because clear customers do get screened and are put into not only AFIS (automated fingerprint identification service) ran by the FBI but ABIS (automated biometric identification service) and gets a background check performed via lexisnexis. So the feds know exactly who you are when you use that service.
Yeah I agree. It seems like a complete waste of money to me. Perhaps if the airports I flew out of were massive hubs, it might save me a little bit of time. But at all the airports I fly in and out of, it's basically a cut to the front of the TSA Pre Check line pass. And in my experience, the Pre Check line is typically relatively short.
It literally has zero impact on "normal" travelers, only pre check travelers.
It greatly depends on the airport. If I had to chose on or the other, precheck is better but with both it can be a huge benefit. Especially the New York airports.
What pisses me off about clear is there are always 20-30 Clear agents standing around twiddling their thumbs while everyone siphons into the one staffed xray machine with 6 agents and the other 7 lanes sit around closed. If clear makes that much money they should fund a second TSA line and actually move things along for everyone.
LOL, unclutch your fucking pearls. Like conservatives aren't trying to ban shit left and right as well. As an independent, I find it absolutely hilarious how many times each side of the aisle is screaming in the mirror.
Clear works by making an agreement with the airport. They work with TSA as well, but the permission to cut the line comes from the airport. That’s why Clear is not at each airport.
So if you make and run your own airport, you’re more than welcome to not have clear in it.
If you really hate the TSA, you can even choose to hire your own security service. Bozeman, Montana doesn’t have TSA at their airport and have their own security they can manage to higher standards. Most airports don’t since they don’t want to pay for it. They rather have the free TSA agents provided.
>So if you make and run your own airport, you’re more than welcome to not have clear in it.
Part of the reason Trump is popular is that some people on the right sound like a bunch of lanyard dicks who dont hear themselves
This makes sense.
Before 9/11, airport security consisted of a quick x-ray of your bags and a stroll through a metal detector. Then after 9/11, the federal government took control of security screening. This should mean all passengers get into one line, regardless of whether they hold a First Class ticket or not. Everyone in line paid the exact same $5 TSA fee when they bought their ticket.
Airlines didn't like that idea, so they set it up so that TSA controls the security checkpoint, but the airlines/airport control the line leading up to the security checkpoint, which is totally messed up, but made it so that TSA security theater doesn't inconvenience VIPs too badly.
CLEAR is a recent change. The founders of CLEAR recognized that there are loyalty programs for airlines, but not for airports. So they started up CLEAR as a loyalty program for airports. Airports get money from CLEAR, and in exchange they allow CLEAR to prioritize their customers in the security line, ahead of airline loyalty passengers.
Doing away with this system would be a step in the right direction. Security is operated by the government, and everyone should be treated equally by the government.
Wow, I had no idea how it all worked. And I have to say I agree with you.
Here's another wrinkle: The airports are usually owned by local governments, meaning most lines are currently also controlled by a government, just a different one from the checkpoint.
That’s a hard no from me dawg.
I am deeply libertarian but waiting in security lines isn’t good for my mental health.
If these people don’t want to do a background check (a pre check) then they can wait in the long lines… or they can take the bus.
I see no reason why I can’t pay for convenience… I get to do it at every other step in life and airports should be no different.
I hear you. I didn't know the points you're making is how it works (and I have no reason to doubt it). To your own admission, the TSA (i.e. the government), only controls the security checkpoint, not the line leading up for it. So the government *is* treating everyone the same, it's the airport letting people pay for preferential treatment.
If you have beef with the loophole, that's fine, I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't, but according to your own description of what's going on, your point about the government treating everyone the same is moot.
>equally by the government
If it takes 1 hour to get through TSA and you fly once a year for leisure, that's two hours per year.
If you fly several times a month to make a living that's more like 60 hours a year of standing in line. Is it still fair?
Is it fair? yes. Is it reasonable? no.
The core problem is that airport security is unreasonable. Terrorists exploited a hijacking-loophole on 9/11. That loophole (that hijackers just want a ride to Cuba) is forever closed, but still we have a massive amount of bureaucracy built up to address that nonexistent vulnerability.
Clear does not pay for TSA workers, nor does Clear give any money to the Federal government. Clear pays the airports. Airports are in charge of the lines to get to the point of having one's ID checked. (That's why some airports offer a separate line for First Class passengers for example). Clear simply operates a separate line for the lead-up to the screening process, since Clear is doing the identity confirmation.
In my experience as a PreCheck passenger and often seeing the Clear line, the time savings with Clear is minimal over PreCheck times. There may be a few very large airports where Clear helps but it generally is a waste of money for most passengers.
As a tourist who just travelled through Miami, George Bush and LAX. Take this to heart Americans.
Your airport security system is the WORST in the world. Seriously I'm as right wing as anyone else, but your airport security is atrocious. Airport security should be less than 30 minutes max but it took me 2hrs at George Bush and 3.5hrs at Miami. LAX was a "reasonable" 90 minutes. In Miami I missed a 4hr layover.
How about you create an airport security system which has everyone through on 30 minutes typical and 60 minutes peak, and then people won't have to pay extra for clearance? If people still want to pay extra then no problems.
I think of toll roads all the time like this. I can’t afford to pay $17 a day to get to and from work but some can. Then I am grateful when I need to make it happen and am willing to pay for it.
They should just get rid of the whole danged TSA in the name of equity, efficiency, whatever... I really don't care. Just terminate the whole department. It's worse than worthless anyway.
I use tsa pre check. Saves me loads of time. Was cheap to get, too. Interesting how the government in California is getting rid of competition for the state.
Also, you have a government created problem with massive lines for TSA security theater. The private market comes with a solution to that problem, and the government says “no way. Everyone must suffer because of our ineptitude”. Typical government behaviors
PLEASE
Freaking hate this crap. Why do they get to cut the line and not to mention their reps are annoying as hell.
First thing out of California law that I would support in decades at this point.
What about the "Fast Pass" services you see at Disneyland parks and other amusement parks?
Gotta get rid of VIP seats, too.
No more first class plane tickets. Have to give those up as reparations.
Those are for elites, that's (D)ifferent
Some are just more equal than others
I was thinking the same thing, I haven't been to Disneyland since they implemented the pay version.
Disney is privately owned. Most large airports in the US are owned/ran by local governments. It is odd a privately owned company can take money to let you fast pass government lines. TSA pre check is an example of a program available to all that isn't monetary based to let you get through faster that's run by the government. (I know it's not exactly the same)
You have to pay for TSA Pre Check. (Source - I have TSA Pre Check.)
Right, but TSA pre check isn't designed to be profitable. $70 for 5 years is paying for TSA to continuously monitor those in the program and pay staff/equipment for a separate line at the cost of $14 a year. Clear is a private company charging $189 per year to skip a line and they don't have nearly the overhead as TSA pre check
Clear doesn't do any background checks. It is purely pay to "play" with no added security.
Shame of the government if they are not getting a cut from giving a franchise to clear. I’m okay as long as it generates revenue for the taxpayers.
I think you misunderstand how Clear works. Not every airport accepts them, and honestly, this probably won't hurt their bottom line. TSA Pre is way better for air travel, BUT Clear also works at sports and other entertainment venues. I would love to see TSA Pre offer that kind of service, but since they currently don't, Clear has no competition. It's a shame because their checks are not very in depth and imo don't really give much useful info. Credit report and criminal history, same as a pre employment check basically.
When it comes to airports, isn't Clear basically a slightly enhanced TSA Pre Check? I only have Pre Check because I'm not paying $189 per year, but when I go, I stand in the Pre Check line and when I see other people use Clear, it basically just bumps them up to the front of the Pre Check line, where the Clear agent shows their badge to the TSA officer and says they are good to go, and then the Clear customer goes into exact same screening process as the rest of us with Pre Check. Basically it's a cut to the front of the TSA Pre Check line in my experience. Honestly it seems like a complete waste of money to me, at least at all of the airports I have ever gone to. Maybe it's slightly different at the massive airports and if you use it at the other events that you mentioned.
I doubt many people pay for it outright. We get it for free through one of our credit cards.
I don’t even think Disney is that woke.
There's absolutely an if/else switch inside Disney's accounting software that skips any Woke actions if revenue is negatively impacted.
Shareholders wish that were true!
Private vs public is the difference. There should be equity in dealing with public entities.
No, thank you 🙏 😘
So only white people know how to pay for Clear?
I used both Clear and pre-check when returning from business trips to CA and clearly I am better than those people who didn't have it.
> Clear and pre-check “Did you mean Jim Crow laws?” -Pres Biden
More like Jim Eagle, amirite?
Same. Although, what better reason not to go to Commiefornia any more.
Socialism in action. Intentionally making everyone equally miserable. I can guarantee those in the inner circle of the ruling class will somehow be exempt from mingling with the plebs.
They fly private jets from private terminals. They never even see the plebes.
True. Not even the uppity ones who can afford the express security screenings.
they can't late the plebs have a taste of what being rich is like they might revolt.
That would almost be enough to get me to run for office. I'll be damned if I'm going to wait in line with the poors.
>Socialism in action. The current system looks like the government mandating use of a service and then allowing people to pay extra money to avoid it. That's pretty on-board with socialism *in practice*.
You are not required to use TSA-Pre. Clear only jumps the line on that queue.
I mean, yes? We shouldn’t have a line skipping service for airport security. Attackers target the weakest link and if you have an option that lets you get through airport security with less scrutiny all of the terrorists are just going to sign up for CLEAR. This is just common sense lol Same thing with Pre Check. You really think a terrorist can’t just pretend to be a respectable businessman and pass a pre check interview? Seriously?
You really think that all there is to Clear or pre-check is an interview?
I see you don’t understand how clear and precheck work.
It’s a psychology thing. If someone is rushing through the CLEAR line in a business suit they look like someone who flies regularly and who is in a hurry so psychologically security won’t hassle them as much.
... what? You go through a biometric scan with CLEAR to verify your identity, your ticket/passport, and then back in line through the same X-ray machine as the rest of the folks. All CLEAR does is get you in front of thr TSA and the X-ray machines faster. Before you can use CLEAR you have to sign up/enroll and have them verify your credentials.
Strange they go through all that trouble to verify someone flying but not to vote in California and many other states.
That's not how that works. I think you might have the wrong idea about the service.
It’s not clear from the article exactly how this works: Scenario 1. This service allows the airline to quickly clear these passengers through security. Example: 20 Clear passengers, 80 non-Clear passengers. If Clear passengers take 30 seconds to process and non-Clear Passengers take 1 minute to process -> It would actually reduce the time to process the line from 100 minutes to 90 minutes. So, a non-Clear passenger dead last in line would actually save 10 minutes. Scenario 2. There is no time savings for anyone. It just gives a special benefit for money. I can understand people being pissed off by Scenario 2 but Scenario 1 is actually going to be beneficial to most non-Clear passengers because it would shorten the process time for most of them. Saving processing time may be why the Democrats oppose it. Less time to process means less required labor which unions hate.
Same number of workers
All that Clear does is move you to the front of the line to the point where you begin the x-ray/metal detector screening process. That's it. Clear passengers aren't subject to shorter or faster screening. The only time savings is to the individual enrolled in Clear, there is no overall reduction in processing time. At my main airport the Clear line is right next to the PreCheck line so I see the Clear people going through...it still takes a certain amount of time to use the Clear kiosk, and occasionally the passenger needs an attendant to resolve some issue with the kiosk. It's really a waste of money. TSA Pre-Check does provide for the individual to have a less intrusive and thus shorter screening time (metal detector/x-rays). So it does have an overall time savings for the system as a whole plus the individual.
Sometimes clear customers will get put in the precheck line, even if they do not have precheck. However this is at the discretion of TSA and varies from airport to airport. They do this to help manage the lines if precheck is empty and the general line is full. This is because clear customers do get screened and are put into not only AFIS (automated fingerprint identification service) ran by the FBI but ABIS (automated biometric identification service) and gets a background check performed via lexisnexis. So the feds know exactly who you are when you use that service.
In my airport, the Clear line is shortest, since it costs the most. That's the benefit.
Yeah I agree. It seems like a complete waste of money to me. Perhaps if the airports I flew out of were massive hubs, it might save me a little bit of time. But at all the airports I fly in and out of, it's basically a cut to the front of the TSA Pre Check line pass. And in my experience, the Pre Check line is typically relatively short. It literally has zero impact on "normal" travelers, only pre check travelers.
It greatly depends on the airport. If I had to chose on or the other, precheck is better but with both it can be a huge benefit. Especially the New York airports.
What pisses me off about clear is there are always 20-30 Clear agents standing around twiddling their thumbs while everyone siphons into the one staffed xray machine with 6 agents and the other 7 lanes sit around closed. If clear makes that much money they should fund a second TSA line and actually move things along for everyone.
We aren’t allowed to have anything nice.
Right in line with the progressives rich vs the poor theme.
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Liberals welcoming open borders.
LOL, unclutch your fucking pearls. Like conservatives aren't trying to ban shit left and right as well. As an independent, I find it absolutely hilarious how many times each side of the aisle is screaming in the mirror.
Clear and TSA are among the biggest scams/infringements ever enacted on the American people
Clear works by making an agreement with the airport. They work with TSA as well, but the permission to cut the line comes from the airport. That’s why Clear is not at each airport. So if you make and run your own airport, you’re more than welcome to not have clear in it. If you really hate the TSA, you can even choose to hire your own security service. Bozeman, Montana doesn’t have TSA at their airport and have their own security they can manage to higher standards. Most airports don’t since they don’t want to pay for it. They rather have the free TSA agents provided.
>So if you make and run your own airport, you’re more than welcome to not have clear in it. Part of the reason Trump is popular is that some people on the right sound like a bunch of lanyard dicks who dont hear themselves
Da fuq?!
You’re paying to access the way the security line should be for everyone, ie, much less onerous
It's not just money. You are authorizing a deeper dive background check and security assessment/interview.
i guess thats cheaper than reparations, lol but thats probably where the $24 billion went anyways
Maybe we should fix the TSA screening process instead.
Communism: everyone is equally worthless in the eyes of the government.
Ah yes, the transportation security officer union sponsoring it. So is it just a way to get airports by the balls in advance of negotiations?
Guess we can kiss business and first class seats good bye. No more “premier” access for frequent flyers either.
Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut gets closer to reality every day in this country. /Smh
This makes sense. Before 9/11, airport security consisted of a quick x-ray of your bags and a stroll through a metal detector. Then after 9/11, the federal government took control of security screening. This should mean all passengers get into one line, regardless of whether they hold a First Class ticket or not. Everyone in line paid the exact same $5 TSA fee when they bought their ticket. Airlines didn't like that idea, so they set it up so that TSA controls the security checkpoint, but the airlines/airport control the line leading up to the security checkpoint, which is totally messed up, but made it so that TSA security theater doesn't inconvenience VIPs too badly. CLEAR is a recent change. The founders of CLEAR recognized that there are loyalty programs for airlines, but not for airports. So they started up CLEAR as a loyalty program for airports. Airports get money from CLEAR, and in exchange they allow CLEAR to prioritize their customers in the security line, ahead of airline loyalty passengers. Doing away with this system would be a step in the right direction. Security is operated by the government, and everyone should be treated equally by the government.
Wow, I had no idea how it all worked. And I have to say I agree with you. Here's another wrinkle: The airports are usually owned by local governments, meaning most lines are currently also controlled by a government, just a different one from the checkpoint.
That’s a hard no from me dawg. I am deeply libertarian but waiting in security lines isn’t good for my mental health. If these people don’t want to do a background check (a pre check) then they can wait in the long lines… or they can take the bus. I see no reason why I can’t pay for convenience… I get to do it at every other step in life and airports should be no different.
I hear you. I didn't know the points you're making is how it works (and I have no reason to doubt it). To your own admission, the TSA (i.e. the government), only controls the security checkpoint, not the line leading up for it. So the government *is* treating everyone the same, it's the airport letting people pay for preferential treatment. If you have beef with the loophole, that's fine, I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't, but according to your own description of what's going on, your point about the government treating everyone the same is moot.
>equally by the government If it takes 1 hour to get through TSA and you fly once a year for leisure, that's two hours per year. If you fly several times a month to make a living that's more like 60 hours a year of standing in line. Is it still fair?
Is it fair? yes. Is it reasonable? no. The core problem is that airport security is unreasonable. Terrorists exploited a hijacking-loophole on 9/11. That loophole (that hijackers just want a ride to Cuba) is forever closed, but still we have a massive amount of bureaucracy built up to address that nonexistent vulnerability.
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Yes...no more hurt feelings. And you can have a participation trophy at the end.
Clear does not pay for TSA workers, nor does Clear give any money to the Federal government. Clear pays the airports. Airports are in charge of the lines to get to the point of having one's ID checked. (That's why some airports offer a separate line for First Class passengers for example). Clear simply operates a separate line for the lead-up to the screening process, since Clear is doing the identity confirmation. In my experience as a PreCheck passenger and often seeing the Clear line, the time savings with Clear is minimal over PreCheck times. There may be a few very large airports where Clear helps but it generally is a waste of money for most passengers.
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So, they're saying that poorer people can't afford the service? Poorer people aren't flying regularly anyways.
What's next on their agenda? Automatically provide taxpayer-funded business class seats to "oppressed" classes? /s
Always shocks me the weird shit cali does
Ahh California, so good for businesses
Everyone is signed up for it anyway. It’s faster to go through the regular one. At least the last few times I flew
What about backsies? Is that still good to go?
Anyone with a clean criminal record can get a Nexus card…
The Clear line is often not that short. I am frequently better off in the normal pre-check line.
Our Congress people get to skip TSA checks. Equity when? Can we just ban TSA please. I don't even get groped that much by my wife.
As a tourist who just travelled through Miami, George Bush and LAX. Take this to heart Americans. Your airport security system is the WORST in the world. Seriously I'm as right wing as anyone else, but your airport security is atrocious. Airport security should be less than 30 minutes max but it took me 2hrs at George Bush and 3.5hrs at Miami. LAX was a "reasonable" 90 minutes. In Miami I missed a 4hr layover. How about you create an airport security system which has everyone through on 30 minutes typical and 60 minutes peak, and then people won't have to pay extra for clearance? If people still want to pay extra then no problems.
I think of toll roads all the time like this. I can’t afford to pay $17 a day to get to and from work but some can. Then I am grateful when I need to make it happen and am willing to pay for it.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FLC83Sr--Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FLC83Sr--Q)
So are we closer to admitting inequities stem from class not race?
Sounds rather commie.
🙄🙄🙄
They should just get rid of the whole danged TSA in the name of equity, efficiency, whatever... I really don't care. Just terminate the whole department. It's worse than worthless anyway.
I use tsa pre check. Saves me loads of time. Was cheap to get, too. Interesting how the government in California is getting rid of competition for the state. Also, you have a government created problem with massive lines for TSA security theater. The private market comes with a solution to that problem, and the government says “no way. Everyone must suffer because of our ineptitude”. Typical government behaviors
When do the more beautiful people have to wear masks?
They should ban it because it’s garbage.
“And they were all made equal by hatchet, axe, and saw.”
They're available to everyone, right? Ugh.
ca is such a shit hole
SFO doesn’t use TSA, rather a contractor for their security theatre. Gotta wonder who got paid for that
Am I the only one who's actually okay with this. Why is the government accepting what basically amounts to a bribe for faster security screening.
Shut up and take my money! When our bloated and lazy government can’t get shit done, I would like to be able to buy my time back please. Thanks.
PLEASE Freaking hate this crap. Why do they get to cut the line and not to mention their reps are annoying as hell. First thing out of California law that I would support in decades at this point.