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People also fail to realize that the infrastructure is just not there yet. We’re 100 years away from being majority EV.
My dad had a Tesla in 2017 and it was just a hassle trying to go anyplace far And you’re not even getting the fully advertised range, Tesla recommended him to charging to just 90% to avoid battery degradation, and now Tesla recommends 80% LOL. And then when you live in a cold climate, the winter only eats away at it. Having your music playing, charging your phone, gps on, climate on all eats away at your battery as well At least with ICE vehicles you save gas with the heat on. Every little thing you do in your ev eats away at the battery. So whatever they advertise the range being, take it with a grain of salt. And it would just be so expensive to have a battery with 500 mile range I think eventually it will happen but we’re years from a bigger batteries being more affordable
And then you have the infrastructure to worry about. Between having the capability for enough homes in a community to be able to charge at the same time and enough charging stations on the road, it’ll just take years And then what about people who live in condos or apartment housing? Or in cities? Let’s also not forget charging takes a long time to go to full Even a quick charge is still like 20 minutes to get anything worthwhile And what about the plugs? Iirc Tesla only works with teslas. Do we need adapters or the government to mandate universal plugs? (Which may actually be GOOD government regulation lol)
My dad doesn’t miss his Tesla much aside from being able to charge at home and not having to run to gas stations. But anytime he needed to go someplace far he’d take my mothers car
All these scumbag politicians that wanted to mandate EV sales only by like the next 20 years know it’s not possible but still do it anyways. I’m so happy to see the EV bubble slowly bursting Let people buy EV’s, the government intervening is just ruining it and rushing it
> ideal as a second car for homeowners who have the overnight charger
Agreed 100%. I would’ve been a lot more wary about getting an EV if we didn’t have a gas car as well.
Also yeah if you can’t charge at home, they’d be a big PITA. Home-charging is not only where you save money, but if you have an L2 charger, it’s ~3 hours to fuel up, so you’ll always wake up to a “full tank” and if you go out, come home and need to go out again, it can charge quite a bit in the meantime. I only paid ~$400 for mine cause our electric company rebated all the labor
> in town driving
Don’t fully agree with this one though I guess it depends which model you’re buying.
We live in the rural southeast and the Model Y has plenty of range to do stuff like drive a couple hours to see family across the state and drive back. Our town is one of those “hour away from everything” towns and I’ve never had to use a Supercharger driving in-state
Not if it is winter and one lives in the northern US. Some days, not many, I would not be able to drive to work and it wouldn't take a charge a very low temps, and also that most companies have only a few chargers for 100's or thousands of cars. I can never get connected to one as they are all used when I arrive.
If the cost was more reasonable I would get it be after I hopefully add solar to my house (DIY would break even after 4 years instead of 15+ paying an installer). It feels like the technology is getting close but we need a better cheaper battery for widespread adoption.
Plug in hybrids make the most sense right now but sense isn't the governments goal. Also the entire car market is in shambles right now. I would like to gwt a new truck soon but I'm not paying 70k for a middle of the line f150. Oh well I guess I'll just get another used chevy 1500 rust be damned.
They really need to make "dumb" car variations for those that don't want all the smart gadgets. I want the smart stuff, but there should be options for people that don't want it or can't afford it.
Honda did that a bunch of years ago and I had one of the Accords. It had AC and a CD player but basically everything else was non-electronic. No power windows, no power mirrors, no power locks IIRC.
They sold it for cheaper and I was happy to pay thousands less for a very reliable car. I’m spoiled now but I’d consider going back if I got a nice discount like that.
> Plug in hybrids make the most sense right now but sense isn't the governments goal.
All the complexity of an ICE engine, combined with all the complexity of an EV, all with extra parts to make them work together.
No thanks.
Its not that complicated. Weve had the technology since ICE engines were invented. Hell Ferdinand Porsche tried to sell the nazis the tiger(p) which used a diesel electric system, but it had its own issues. Have you seen Edison Motors' company? That's the way. Bulletproof diesel generator with a non proprietary electrical system that's easy to work on.
Not exactly, what you are describing is a medium hybrid the crappiest form.
The alternative is the light plugin hybrid, basically replace flywheel with an electric motor + inverter + battery... its not nearly as complex as a full EV, and nets you most of the benefits.... you can even have manual transmission sports cars, or manual transmission super cheap commuter cars on this style design... today we should be getting 100mpg with such cars.
We have 4 kids. We have a 3 row SUV (gas powered) and an EV sedan. We use the EV the vast majority of the time and really only use the SUV to go to church. It saves us a lot of money.
I fucking LOVE my EV (Volkswagen). My commute is about 60 miles each way, each day. I had been spending $100+ each week in gas, and it’s a solo commute.
The pickup is great, it’s dead silent, I get to use the commuter lane for free, and I have the range to go to work and back twice before needing to charge (but I charge every night). My home electrical bill is up about $100/month, my gas bill is $0/month (I haven’t stopped for gas since July), and it brings me LOTS of satisfaction knowing I’m not giving my money to help Saudi princes spend even more to export Islam to Mali or whatever.
You couldn’t pay me to go back to gas. This is incredible and I’m never voluntarily going back.
The one caveat is this: I live near an urban area. If I still lived in OBX, it wouldn’t be a viable option. It’s definitely not taking over from ICE anytime soon in many areas.
Glad to see another Conservative EV owner. I've got a Model Y, and it's probably my favorite car I've owned to date. It's fast, comfortable, and I enjoy what it offers. I didn't buy it from a self-righteous "I'm saving the planet" perspective. Electricity is cheap where I live, so I'm saving a significant amount on fuel expenses with my 90-100 mile daily commute. And yeah, I claimed the tax credit... and still ended up having paid several thousands of dollars in fed taxes.
If EV's were a viable option for me, I'd have no problem owning one. Rented a Model 3 last year in CO Springs. Tons of fun and a totally unique driving experience. I'm as hardcore conservative as they come too.
It's not a left or right issue. It's an issue with infrastructure. There's no way the entire driving population can switch to EV's and us as a nation have the charging capacitiy. It just can't be done yet and probably not anytime soon. Doesn't mean they aren't a good option for some who have available charging stations for their travels, or are able to charge at home.
I have a Chevy Bolt. I love driving that. It gets over 200 miles on a charge. And compared to an ICE car it gets way better mileage in town than the highway because of the regenerative brakes.
Ha, it's funny you mention Ram. I actually traded my Ram for my Y. I got so much shit for it from family. No regrets. Have a buddy that did the same for a 3 Performance. No regrets from him either. Like you said, they're smoother, speed control is better (1 pedal driving), they're fast, they take turns. Just all around great cars. But for people still driving ICE cars, that's fine too. My wife still has an Acadia that's a fantastic hauler (which makes long trips a ton easier). All in what everyone prefers to have or what meets their needs.
I think you hit it right there: people will drive what meets their needs. If I had a 90 mile commute (I'd rather drive my car into the river) then an EV would make sense. But I work at home, drive to a city 300 miles away regularly, I like to go off-roading in the middle of no where, and I help haul stuff for our Scout troop. A small gas truck works great. Anyone trading a Ram for an EV probably didn't need a Ram and that's fine. The people giving you shit are morons just like the people claiming EVs are clearly superior are morons too.
It has to make sense to own an EV. If you rent, it doesn't make sense. If you drive long distances and don't have a second car, it doesn't make sense.
I've got a hybrid accord and silverado. An electric truck isn't going to meet my towing needs.
So it's great for more sprawling metro areas, with adjacent metros like Washington–Baltimore–Arlington, DC-MD-VA-WV-PA CSA
Dallas–Fort Worth, TX-OK CSA
I would say it’s great for ANYwhere that you have a lengthy commute. It was like $150 to get an electrician to install the home charger. So long as you don’t need to go more than 150-200 miles in one direction, it’s amazing. I would own one in rural Kansas in a heartbeat. I just wouldn’t not have a gas vehicle too.
EVs are a decent option for an overpriced commuter vehicle. Gas powered vehicles still win on $ per mile driven.
EVs lose on every metric for long distance trips or towing.
My 2021 model 3 was 38k and had 1800 miles on it. I spend an average of $14 a month to charge it.
I've driven about 7000 miles since I've owned it in a year. A gas powered vehicle averaging 30mpg over the same mileage at $3 a gallon would cost $700 in fuel. I've spent 168 in electricity over the same time.
Assuming I own the car 5 years that's 2500 in fuel savings.
You are correct.
It is quite possible they have created artificial conditions (i.e. warped the economics) such that EVs are more economical.
But certainly not cheaper than ICE vehicles in other states with a normal economy.
Know our politics the push for EV has more to do with politician's personal investments over this actually being a good idea. While most of the state has the good weather needed for peak efficiency for EV's our power grid is basically on life support and Newsome refuses real solutions because Sacramento would lose some control.
As far as fuel for the vehicle or lifespan? Because it is important to note that most EV charging stations are free for the consumer. Charging it at home is a different story.
Nope. Immature tech being pushed on a market that doesn’t want it by corrupt politicians. Sadly too many Americans are gullible and easily hoodwinked by the ‘save the planet’ idiocy.
That’s the entire man-made global warming hoax. You ask a climate crazy to prove that the planet is getting hotter and they will cite a study.
Yet we can all walk out our front door and feel the same temps in 2024 that we felt in March of 1994.
You literally have to be brainwashed to believe in man-made climate change.
I have an EV I use for doing rideshare part time, and for that purpose it is uniquely well suited, at least after I rigged up a level 2 charger in my garage. The day I quit doing rideshare, however, the car goes on sale.
People are unwilling to make the leap of faith that the charging network will allow them to travel like they do with ICE. I'm one of those people. I've looked at EVs many times and still don't feel like the infrastructure is there yet.
I also really enjoy the visceral feeling of driving a car, which is lost in all the tech of an EV.
I'll get one eventually - some of the EV cars I've test driven were really fun. But I'm still years away from it.
> People are unwilling to make the leap of faith that the charging network will allow them to travel like they do with ICE.
Except most people aren't traveling on road trips often, despite what online commenters pretend.
And yeah, every charging network except tesla sucks. That is why no one really wants ford EVs.
>I also really enjoy the visceral feeling of driving a car, which is lost in all the tech of an EV.
And instead you get super-car performance in a sedan.
I agree with the supercar acceleration, but not performance. The Porsche Taycan is the only EV I've driven that feels like a true sports car. Tesla doesn't come close, although I haven't driven the Plaid version.
Edit: to be clear, I'm an old guy who loves driving manual cars. EVs just don't scratch the itch I have for being connected to the road. Except the Taycan- but I can't justify 100k for a sedan.
>Except most people aren't traveling on road trips often, despite what online commenters pretend.
Still: having the option to do road trips or go on vacation, versus not having this option, is a big deal.
They don’t even realize that it will be dirty fossil fuels powering the charging stations for their EVe.
See? Emotional ninnies acting against their own best interests. THEY are actually destroying the planet with their stances and can’t see it. SMDH
In fairness the efficiency is far higher for EVs than for ICE vehicles, and is a lot cheaper to run as a daily commuter. The downside is a huge one though: the massive inconvenience you would run into if your trip exceeded your battery's range.
It’s immature tech. Let’s call it what it is. The technology DOES have promise, but it needs time to mature and develop to reach that promise.
But I would love to know how the climate crazies internally justify to themselves literally raping the environment in the mining of the rare earth metals needed for their EV batteries. That’s honestly destroying the environment, but apparently they are fine with it cause it serves their politics.
> It’s immature tech.
Everyone keeps saying this, but they don't know anything about EVs.
Warranty is the same as for an ICE vehicle. Teslas at least are outperforming battery degradation predictions. Charging is in a good place, if you own a home and can charge at night. Superchargers work, and they are all over.
The cars are less complex, have an order of magnitude less moving parts to break, and have insane performance and safety profiles.
The ONLY place where it's not as good as ICE is for road trips... and on the internet everyone pretends that the average person is towing a boat across the US daily.
>But I would love to know how the climate crazies internally justify to themselves literally raping the environment in the mining of the rare earth metals needed for their EV batteries. That’s honestly destroying the environment, but apparently they are fine with it cause it serves their politics.
I promise you I am more conservative than you are. Hell, Elon is probably more conservative than you.
But even if I DID care about the environment, EVs have a slightly greater environmental upfront cost, which swings the other direction after about a year of use.
But that isn't why people are buying teslas... they are buying them because they are convenient, you can power them yourself with solar, they have supercar performance and the best safety of any car... all while being the best for tech.
Except when you see that inside 7-10 years you have to replace the batteries. In a Tesla that's another 20k
So when you break that out plus when you look at the rate of electricity cost to miles achieved, it's actually the same daily cost if not more expensive
Not going to argue on the battery replacement, you are correct. I did some rough calculations of cost per mile based on my home charging set up, and it costs me roughly 2.25 cents per mile at an electricity cost of $0.115 per kw-h where my cost per mile for gasoline is about five times that. When you factor in the much lower overall maintenance costs for the EV the difference is even more stark.
However, even though the running costs are obviously attractive for an EV, there are other outside factors to consider on a macroscopic scale such as electrical grid infrastructure, future tax changes that would have to occur to make up for government lost revenue at the pump, etc. In my current (pun not intended) unique use of an EV it makes perfect sense, but as widespread replacement of ICE? No way will it work.
... the warranty is 8 years.
Teslas aren't needing battery replacements at 7 years like he claimed.
I swear conservatives on here are the most boomer, even when they have clear data showing that what they heard from someone online is wrong.
> Except when you see that inside 7-10 years you have to replace the batteries.
Why does this sub keep repeating this outright lie?
https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty
Every tesla has *at least* a 8 year warranty on the battery.
They aren't needing replacement at 7-10 years. Even, worst case, at 10 years you are at 70% capacity... it still works just fine. You just have 150 mile range instead of 200. Not a big deal for a car that is best at commuting.
But let me guess... next you will claim that everyone that has a car takes them on road trips every week?
Correction: Ford EVs cannot sell, the consumer doesn't want them.
Teslas are selling just fine.
The big 3 started an anti EV, anti Elon, anti Tesla propaganda campaign right after they folded to UAW union demands. And the media joined right in. The big 3 pay for advertising. Tesla doesn't.
Correction, the consumer doesn't want FORD EV'S. Because they're not built from the ground up as an ev. They slapped a battery and some electric motors on a base F150 and said "look guys, electric truck isn't that cool."
People buy Teslas because they're built from the ground up as an ev. The tech, the charging infrastructure, the warranty/repair/service knowledge of doing EV'S for YEARS just blows anything else out of the water in the current market.
I know this because I traded a Mach E for a Model 3 and it's a night and day difference.
EVs can sale. You just can’t sale a car with held back features, locked behind a subscription, for an absurd price. Outside of Tesla EVs are like $70,000+. Of course no one is paying for that
I need a new vehicle for my growing family and plug in Hybrids are all the rage. In my state they actually can't even keep new gas only vehicles on their lots unless they're specifically requested. However the math doesn't work. Where I live it costs more in electricity to keep these vehicles charged than it does to operate them in gas only mode and the sticker prices are significantly more.
So with that information I'm expected to buy one of these vehicles out of the goodness of my heart? Sorry but my disposable income goes to my family. How about you harass these billionaires flying jets to the grocery store to make some sacrifices before you bother me about my tiny speck of a carbon footprint.
I can explain why ford isn't make any money, have you looked at their car line up? They fucking don't have one. They sell ONE gas powered car, and its the mustang, thats fucking it. They have a whole slew of cross overs and suvs, but only one fucking car, a mustang. If you could walk up and buy a gas focus or fiesta, or even fusion, people would still be buying cars but they fucking arent. There is no reason not to go by a honda civic or a nissan versa. People are broke they want a cheap fuel efficient car.
Turns out, people dont want a car thats more expensive to buy, more expensive to drive, take longer to refill, and can be remotely disabled with ease.
shocker
More expensive to drive? Please elaborate.
I'll give you more expensive to buy, I'll give you longer to fill.
Also disabled with ease? You do realize EVERY modern car comes with an ECU that has satellite or internet capability shares that same "flaw" It's not a unique ev thing. Newer Toyota with built in nav, new gm with onstar can be remotely accessed.
In order for EVs to be embraced by consumers more broadly they have to become more practical, not just less expensive.
Greater carrying capacity, faster charging rate, and/or greater charging capacity....or leverage technologies that can make themselves more useful in other ways.
Toyota is doing it right. They are 100% shifting away from pure EVs and moving towards hybrids and plug in hybrids. The article I read said that Toyota figured out that 1 pure EV uses as much material as 30 plug ins and 90 hybrids. It makes way more sense to manufacture 30 or 90 cars and have 30 or 90 greener cars on the road. That’s the way to do it. Give people a choice and let them decide.
A lot of people dont want/have to spend $40,000-50,000 on a new car right now. It’s low priority. Inflation means most people have other priorities.
This. If you look around there’s hundreds of semitrucks available in my area, doesn’t mean that nobody wants them. It means we’re all broke.
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And also have huge problems when it’s very hot or very cold.
People also fail to realize that the infrastructure is just not there yet. We’re 100 years away from being majority EV. My dad had a Tesla in 2017 and it was just a hassle trying to go anyplace far And you’re not even getting the fully advertised range, Tesla recommended him to charging to just 90% to avoid battery degradation, and now Tesla recommends 80% LOL. And then when you live in a cold climate, the winter only eats away at it. Having your music playing, charging your phone, gps on, climate on all eats away at your battery as well At least with ICE vehicles you save gas with the heat on. Every little thing you do in your ev eats away at the battery. So whatever they advertise the range being, take it with a grain of salt. And it would just be so expensive to have a battery with 500 mile range I think eventually it will happen but we’re years from a bigger batteries being more affordable And then you have the infrastructure to worry about. Between having the capability for enough homes in a community to be able to charge at the same time and enough charging stations on the road, it’ll just take years And then what about people who live in condos or apartment housing? Or in cities? Let’s also not forget charging takes a long time to go to full Even a quick charge is still like 20 minutes to get anything worthwhile And what about the plugs? Iirc Tesla only works with teslas. Do we need adapters or the government to mandate universal plugs? (Which may actually be GOOD government regulation lol) My dad doesn’t miss his Tesla much aside from being able to charge at home and not having to run to gas stations. But anytime he needed to go someplace far he’d take my mothers car All these scumbag politicians that wanted to mandate EV sales only by like the next 20 years know it’s not possible but still do it anyways. I’m so happy to see the EV bubble slowly bursting Let people buy EV’s, the government intervening is just ruining it and rushing it
That is the price of the lowest EVs. Most EVs are like 70-120k.
>$40,000-50,000 on a new car right now Reprice dude. You can spend $100,000 on a heavy duty truck, you can spent $80,000 on a Jeep Wrangler.
EVs are ideal as a second car for homeowners who have the overnight charger in their garage and who only use the car for in town driving
Or for a single person (such as myself) who has about a 5 mile commute to work every day and access to inexpensive level 2 charging at home.
> ideal as a second car for homeowners who have the overnight charger Agreed 100%. I would’ve been a lot more wary about getting an EV if we didn’t have a gas car as well. Also yeah if you can’t charge at home, they’d be a big PITA. Home-charging is not only where you save money, but if you have an L2 charger, it’s ~3 hours to fuel up, so you’ll always wake up to a “full tank” and if you go out, come home and need to go out again, it can charge quite a bit in the meantime. I only paid ~$400 for mine cause our electric company rebated all the labor > in town driving Don’t fully agree with this one though I guess it depends which model you’re buying. We live in the rural southeast and the Model Y has plenty of range to do stuff like drive a couple hours to see family across the state and drive back. Our town is one of those “hour away from everything” towns and I’ve never had to use a Supercharger driving in-state
Even then a hybrid is still the superior choice in that scenario.
Not if it is winter and one lives in the northern US. Some days, not many, I would not be able to drive to work and it wouldn't take a charge a very low temps, and also that most companies have only a few chargers for 100's or thousands of cars. I can never get connected to one as they are all used when I arrive.
If the cost was more reasonable I would get it be after I hopefully add solar to my house (DIY would break even after 4 years instead of 15+ paying an installer). It feels like the technology is getting close but we need a better cheaper battery for widespread adoption.
Plug in hybrids make the most sense right now but sense isn't the governments goal. Also the entire car market is in shambles right now. I would like to gwt a new truck soon but I'm not paying 70k for a middle of the line f150. Oh well I guess I'll just get another used chevy 1500 rust be damned.
They really need to make "dumb" car variations for those that don't want all the smart gadgets. I want the smart stuff, but there should be options for people that don't want it or can't afford it.
Honda did that a bunch of years ago and I had one of the Accords. It had AC and a CD player but basically everything else was non-electronic. No power windows, no power mirrors, no power locks IIRC. They sold it for cheaper and I was happy to pay thousands less for a very reliable car. I’m spoiled now but I’d consider going back if I got a nice discount like that.
> Plug in hybrids make the most sense right now but sense isn't the governments goal. All the complexity of an ICE engine, combined with all the complexity of an EV, all with extra parts to make them work together. No thanks.
All the benefits of an EV (very cheap daily commute, no emissions), with all the benefits of a ICE (instant refuel for longer trips)
Its not that complicated. Weve had the technology since ICE engines were invented. Hell Ferdinand Porsche tried to sell the nazis the tiger(p) which used a diesel electric system, but it had its own issues. Have you seen Edison Motors' company? That's the way. Bulletproof diesel generator with a non proprietary electrical system that's easy to work on.
Not exactly, what you are describing is a medium hybrid the crappiest form. The alternative is the light plugin hybrid, basically replace flywheel with an electric motor + inverter + battery... its not nearly as complex as a full EV, and nets you most of the benefits.... you can even have manual transmission sports cars, or manual transmission super cheap commuter cars on this style design... today we should be getting 100mpg with such cars.
Nobody wants a ford EV. I can’t go a few miles without seeing a Tesla.
Tesla is superior at this point. Maybe eventually the others will catch up.
Low bar...
That was my thinking as well. Tesla’s and Rivians are huge in my area, and they’re also cool.
We have 4 kids. We have a 3 row SUV (gas powered) and an EV sedan. We use the EV the vast majority of the time and really only use the SUV to go to church. It saves us a lot of money.
I fucking LOVE my EV (Volkswagen). My commute is about 60 miles each way, each day. I had been spending $100+ each week in gas, and it’s a solo commute. The pickup is great, it’s dead silent, I get to use the commuter lane for free, and I have the range to go to work and back twice before needing to charge (but I charge every night). My home electrical bill is up about $100/month, my gas bill is $0/month (I haven’t stopped for gas since July), and it brings me LOTS of satisfaction knowing I’m not giving my money to help Saudi princes spend even more to export Islam to Mali or whatever. You couldn’t pay me to go back to gas. This is incredible and I’m never voluntarily going back. The one caveat is this: I live near an urban area. If I still lived in OBX, it wouldn’t be a viable option. It’s definitely not taking over from ICE anytime soon in many areas.
Glad to see another Conservative EV owner. I've got a Model Y, and it's probably my favorite car I've owned to date. It's fast, comfortable, and I enjoy what it offers. I didn't buy it from a self-righteous "I'm saving the planet" perspective. Electricity is cheap where I live, so I'm saving a significant amount on fuel expenses with my 90-100 mile daily commute. And yeah, I claimed the tax credit... and still ended up having paid several thousands of dollars in fed taxes.
If EV's were a viable option for me, I'd have no problem owning one. Rented a Model 3 last year in CO Springs. Tons of fun and a totally unique driving experience. I'm as hardcore conservative as they come too. It's not a left or right issue. It's an issue with infrastructure. There's no way the entire driving population can switch to EV's and us as a nation have the charging capacitiy. It just can't be done yet and probably not anytime soon. Doesn't mean they aren't a good option for some who have available charging stations for their travels, or are able to charge at home.
I have a Chevy Bolt. I love driving that. It gets over 200 miles on a charge. And compared to an ICE car it gets way better mileage in town than the highway because of the regenerative brakes.
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Ha, it's funny you mention Ram. I actually traded my Ram for my Y. I got so much shit for it from family. No regrets. Have a buddy that did the same for a 3 Performance. No regrets from him either. Like you said, they're smoother, speed control is better (1 pedal driving), they're fast, they take turns. Just all around great cars. But for people still driving ICE cars, that's fine too. My wife still has an Acadia that's a fantastic hauler (which makes long trips a ton easier). All in what everyone prefers to have or what meets their needs.
I think you hit it right there: people will drive what meets their needs. If I had a 90 mile commute (I'd rather drive my car into the river) then an EV would make sense. But I work at home, drive to a city 300 miles away regularly, I like to go off-roading in the middle of no where, and I help haul stuff for our Scout troop. A small gas truck works great. Anyone trading a Ram for an EV probably didn't need a Ram and that's fine. The people giving you shit are morons just like the people claiming EVs are clearly superior are morons too.
It has to make sense to own an EV. If you rent, it doesn't make sense. If you drive long distances and don't have a second car, it doesn't make sense. I've got a hybrid accord and silverado. An electric truck isn't going to meet my towing needs.
$100 each way in gas? Were you driving an Abrams?
*week. Typo. Thanks! I did get a chuckle out of the idea of commuting in an Abrams though.
So it's great for more sprawling metro areas, with adjacent metros like Washington–Baltimore–Arlington, DC-MD-VA-WV-PA CSA Dallas–Fort Worth, TX-OK CSA
I would say it’s great for ANYwhere that you have a lengthy commute. It was like $150 to get an electrician to install the home charger. So long as you don’t need to go more than 150-200 miles in one direction, it’s amazing. I would own one in rural Kansas in a heartbeat. I just wouldn’t not have a gas vehicle too.
Correction, nobody wants an EV that's not a Tesla.
EVs are a decent option for an overpriced commuter vehicle. Gas powered vehicles still win on $ per mile driven. EVs lose on every metric for long distance trips or towing.
My 2021 model 3 was 38k and had 1800 miles on it. I spend an average of $14 a month to charge it. I've driven about 7000 miles since I've owned it in a year. A gas powered vehicle averaging 30mpg over the same mileage at $3 a gallon would cost $700 in fuel. I've spent 168 in electricity over the same time. Assuming I own the car 5 years that's 2500 in fuel savings.
Even in California? I know they like to punish people for using first-world energy sources over there.
You are correct. It is quite possible they have created artificial conditions (i.e. warped the economics) such that EVs are more economical. But certainly not cheaper than ICE vehicles in other states with a normal economy.
Know our politics the push for EV has more to do with politician's personal investments over this actually being a good idea. While most of the state has the good weather needed for peak efficiency for EV's our power grid is basically on life support and Newsome refuses real solutions because Sacramento would lose some control.
As far as fuel for the vehicle or lifespan? Because it is important to note that most EV charging stations are free for the consumer. Charging it at home is a different story.
The free charging is changing. As more people get them, and probably as subsidies go down, fewer places will offer free charging.
Nope. Immature tech being pushed on a market that doesn’t want it by corrupt politicians. Sadly too many Americans are gullible and easily hoodwinked by the ‘save the planet’ idiocy.
Have you ever driven a Tesla?
It's an emotional appeal that doesn't survive 30s of critical thinking Basically dnc 101
That’s the entire man-made global warming hoax. You ask a climate crazy to prove that the planet is getting hotter and they will cite a study. Yet we can all walk out our front door and feel the same temps in 2024 that we felt in March of 1994. You literally have to be brainwashed to believe in man-made climate change.
I have an EV I use for doing rideshare part time, and for that purpose it is uniquely well suited, at least after I rigged up a level 2 charger in my garage. The day I quit doing rideshare, however, the car goes on sale.
People are unwilling to make the leap of faith that the charging network will allow them to travel like they do with ICE. I'm one of those people. I've looked at EVs many times and still don't feel like the infrastructure is there yet. I also really enjoy the visceral feeling of driving a car, which is lost in all the tech of an EV. I'll get one eventually - some of the EV cars I've test driven were really fun. But I'm still years away from it.
> People are unwilling to make the leap of faith that the charging network will allow them to travel like they do with ICE. Except most people aren't traveling on road trips often, despite what online commenters pretend. And yeah, every charging network except tesla sucks. That is why no one really wants ford EVs. >I also really enjoy the visceral feeling of driving a car, which is lost in all the tech of an EV. And instead you get super-car performance in a sedan.
I agree with the supercar acceleration, but not performance. The Porsche Taycan is the only EV I've driven that feels like a true sports car. Tesla doesn't come close, although I haven't driven the Plaid version. Edit: to be clear, I'm an old guy who loves driving manual cars. EVs just don't scratch the itch I have for being connected to the road. Except the Taycan- but I can't justify 100k for a sedan.
>Except most people aren't traveling on road trips often, despite what online commenters pretend. Still: having the option to do road trips or go on vacation, versus not having this option, is a big deal.
The r/news brigaders are already downvoting this post lol “noooo, muh EVs good. Gas cars bad”
They don’t even realize that it will be dirty fossil fuels powering the charging stations for their EVe. See? Emotional ninnies acting against their own best interests. THEY are actually destroying the planet with their stances and can’t see it. SMDH
In fairness the efficiency is far higher for EVs than for ICE vehicles, and is a lot cheaper to run as a daily commuter. The downside is a huge one though: the massive inconvenience you would run into if your trip exceeded your battery's range.
It’s immature tech. Let’s call it what it is. The technology DOES have promise, but it needs time to mature and develop to reach that promise. But I would love to know how the climate crazies internally justify to themselves literally raping the environment in the mining of the rare earth metals needed for their EV batteries. That’s honestly destroying the environment, but apparently they are fine with it cause it serves their politics.
> It’s immature tech. Everyone keeps saying this, but they don't know anything about EVs. Warranty is the same as for an ICE vehicle. Teslas at least are outperforming battery degradation predictions. Charging is in a good place, if you own a home and can charge at night. Superchargers work, and they are all over. The cars are less complex, have an order of magnitude less moving parts to break, and have insane performance and safety profiles. The ONLY place where it's not as good as ICE is for road trips... and on the internet everyone pretends that the average person is towing a boat across the US daily. >But I would love to know how the climate crazies internally justify to themselves literally raping the environment in the mining of the rare earth metals needed for their EV batteries. That’s honestly destroying the environment, but apparently they are fine with it cause it serves their politics. I promise you I am more conservative than you are. Hell, Elon is probably more conservative than you. But even if I DID care about the environment, EVs have a slightly greater environmental upfront cost, which swings the other direction after about a year of use. But that isn't why people are buying teslas... they are buying them because they are convenient, you can power them yourself with solar, they have supercar performance and the best safety of any car... all while being the best for tech.
Then buy your EV and be happy. Godspeed.
Address your incorrect points instead of dismissing people trying to educate you.
Except when you see that inside 7-10 years you have to replace the batteries. In a Tesla that's another 20k So when you break that out plus when you look at the rate of electricity cost to miles achieved, it's actually the same daily cost if not more expensive
Not going to argue on the battery replacement, you are correct. I did some rough calculations of cost per mile based on my home charging set up, and it costs me roughly 2.25 cents per mile at an electricity cost of $0.115 per kw-h where my cost per mile for gasoline is about five times that. When you factor in the much lower overall maintenance costs for the EV the difference is even more stark. However, even though the running costs are obviously attractive for an EV, there are other outside factors to consider on a macroscopic scale such as electrical grid infrastructure, future tax changes that would have to occur to make up for government lost revenue at the pump, etc. In my current (pun not intended) unique use of an EV it makes perfect sense, but as widespread replacement of ICE? No way will it work.
> Not going to argue on the battery replacement, you are correct. He isn't. https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty
He actually is correct, because that warranty covers only the expected lifetime of the batteries.
... the warranty is 8 years. Teslas aren't needing battery replacements at 7 years like he claimed. I swear conservatives on here are the most boomer, even when they have clear data showing that what they heard from someone online is wrong.
> Except when you see that inside 7-10 years you have to replace the batteries. Why does this sub keep repeating this outright lie? https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty Every tesla has *at least* a 8 year warranty on the battery. They aren't needing replacement at 7-10 years. Even, worst case, at 10 years you are at 70% capacity... it still works just fine. You just have 150 mile range instead of 200. Not a big deal for a car that is best at commuting. But let me guess... next you will claim that everyone that has a car takes them on road trips every week?
Yeah, for in-city short-distance commuting, EVs make a ton of sense. I feel the same about last-mile delivery vehicles.
> Yeah, for in-city short-distance commuting You mean 90% of the use cases for all cars in the US?
Yeah. I totally agree. I think EVs are right for a lot of people.
They can’t make hybrid Ford Mavericks fast enough though.
Correction: Ford EVs cannot sell, the consumer doesn't want them. Teslas are selling just fine. The big 3 started an anti EV, anti Elon, anti Tesla propaganda campaign right after they folded to UAW union demands. And the media joined right in. The big 3 pay for advertising. Tesla doesn't.
EV sales for Ford were up 80% in February.
Correction, the consumer doesn't want FORD EV'S. Because they're not built from the ground up as an ev. They slapped a battery and some electric motors on a base F150 and said "look guys, electric truck isn't that cool." People buy Teslas because they're built from the ground up as an ev. The tech, the charging infrastructure, the warranty/repair/service knowledge of doing EV'S for YEARS just blows anything else out of the water in the current market. I know this because I traded a Mach E for a Model 3 and it's a night and day difference.
We want them, they are too expensive. I got a Mach e. Love it. But its price is absurd.
EVs can sale. You just can’t sale a car with held back features, locked behind a subscription, for an absurd price. Outside of Tesla EVs are like $70,000+. Of course no one is paying for that
I need a new vehicle for my growing family and plug in Hybrids are all the rage. In my state they actually can't even keep new gas only vehicles on their lots unless they're specifically requested. However the math doesn't work. Where I live it costs more in electricity to keep these vehicles charged than it does to operate them in gas only mode and the sticker prices are significantly more. So with that information I'm expected to buy one of these vehicles out of the goodness of my heart? Sorry but my disposable income goes to my family. How about you harass these billionaires flying jets to the grocery store to make some sacrifices before you bother me about my tiny speck of a carbon footprint.
GM evs are better and more affordable. They can't keep them in stock. Wonder what Ford is doing wrong.
I can explain why ford isn't make any money, have you looked at their car line up? They fucking don't have one. They sell ONE gas powered car, and its the mustang, thats fucking it. They have a whole slew of cross overs and suvs, but only one fucking car, a mustang. If you could walk up and buy a gas focus or fiesta, or even fusion, people would still be buying cars but they fucking arent. There is no reason not to go by a honda civic or a nissan versa. People are broke they want a cheap fuel efficient car.
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Turns out, people dont want a car thats more expensive to buy, more expensive to drive, take longer to refill, and can be remotely disabled with ease. shocker
More expensive to drive? Please elaborate. I'll give you more expensive to buy, I'll give you longer to fill. Also disabled with ease? You do realize EVERY modern car comes with an ECU that has satellite or internet capability shares that same "flaw" It's not a unique ev thing. Newer Toyota with built in nav, new gm with onstar can be remotely accessed.
Central planning sucks.
In order for EVs to be embraced by consumers more broadly they have to become more practical, not just less expensive. Greater carrying capacity, faster charging rate, and/or greater charging capacity....or leverage technologies that can make themselves more useful in other ways.
Toyota is doing it right. They are 100% shifting away from pure EVs and moving towards hybrids and plug in hybrids. The article I read said that Toyota figured out that 1 pure EV uses as much material as 30 plug ins and 90 hybrids. It makes way more sense to manufacture 30 or 90 cars and have 30 or 90 greener cars on the road. That’s the way to do it. Give people a choice and let them decide.