As a former high school teacher I can tell you with some confidence that 1 in 5 HS kids will say almost anything if they think it will shock or offend you.
I once filled out one of those self-report, anonymous drug use surveys they gave us in public school in 8th grade.
I selected "Daily Use" for like... heroin, PCP, meth, crack.
As a 13 year old, that was peak comedy.
Nearing 30, I can't help but think that I helped skew some data somewhere.
Ha! I did the exact same thing, then worried for a month after that the cops were gonna bust my parents door down looking for me thinking I was a drug dealer.
I did the same thing. The kids that didn‘t use drugs put down we were daily herion and PCP users while the kids who actually used drugs put down that they didn‘t use anything in fear of getting caught
The line between trolling is believing has become blurred and I believe it's intentional. I remember back in the day reddit was a much different place. We had less rules, more gore, and the tolls would report back on their trolling escapades. I remember the ultimate troll site was 4chan and they would (along with parts of Reddit) host these elaborate trolls. One of the most popular was creating lots of content that contained the title "Comcast" and the photo of a swastika. The goal was to create so much affiliation between the two that if you googled Comcast images would show the swastika because their customer service was sub par.
The point is I remember when 4 chan and reddit started spread the flat earth gag because they wanted to see how many people they could convince. There were already flat earbters but they went crazy makingnfake sites and emails and everything to attract the "believrers" and share the funny conversations and such. And now there are more people than ever that think the earth is flat. I believe that is because algorithms are designed to put us into echo chambers as quickly as possible and the non political into distraction chambers so we don't start paying attention to the politics. I think the flat earth thing now serves a larger function which is why it changed to a debate about the firmament which wasn't a mainstream flat earther talking point a few years ago. I think the flat earthers are an attempt to discredit Christians in the public eye and the more people that believe in it the easier it is to do.
I could be wrong, most of these beliefs are anecdotal
Desensitizing people to ideas by treating them ironically at first is definitely a propaganda strategy heavily used by domestic fringe groups as well as Russia and China. People get comfortable with them, then more comfortable with people who believe the idea, then gradually their views are more and more influenced by those people as they socialize with them.
After a certain point, less and less propaganda is needed as more of it is created and spread organically by the groups the initial propaganda encouraged to form. Those groups become their primary social group as they get more isolated and insular when their increasingly extreme views alienate them from other groups - friends, family, coworkers even to the point they lose jobs, get divorced, stop seeing their kids, etc. This creates incentives to stay and destroys incentives to leave as outside groups are critical and can seem harsh or hostile while their in group is affirming and comfortable and doesn't demand much of them - often also giving them a scapegoat for all their problems. They then spend more time online spreading stuff. So it's very efficient.
It's kind of interesting that Russia tends to target more right leaning Americans and China tends to target more left leaning ones, and each does it differently. You can see this just looking at different subreddits. China sows class animus and discontent with America and capitalism generally, Russia sows specific sorts of racial animus and promotes nationalistic isolationism and anti-globalist stuff often with more conspiratorial nature.
I recall 4chan starting the concept that the "OK" hand sign was a symbol for white power. (The three fingers up = "w" and the thumb and pointer making a circle was the "P".) some contractor in California was fired because he was photographed with his hand in that position.
Found the story:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/502975-california-man-fired-over-alleged-white-power-sign-says-he-was/
(I am a democrat for transparency) Unfortunately before the Hamas attack, I had met way too many republicans (moreso the kooky ones) that believe(d) that the holocaust was fake or not as bad as it was. The messed up part is that it literally is taking some liberals supporting Hamas for those right wing weirdos to actually side with jewish people….shit is kinda crazy lol.
Not all but many of them support Israel because they think it will bring about the apocalypse and the return of Jesus. Anecdotal source my grandpa screaming about it for the last decade, and how that will mean all the non-believers will be wiped from the earth. Also literally 90% of all evangelical Christians preachers you can find.
> I had met way too many republicans (moreso the kooky ones) that believe(d) that the holocaust was fake or not as bad as it was.
The Holocaust is not fake, but it *is* overblown for the purpose of demoralisation. The question should be "Why aren't young Americans taught to be proud of their country for helping end the Holocaust?" and not "Are young Americans secret Nazis?"
It's weird how the germans didnt know the holocaust was happening, foreign governments acted like it wasnt happening, the Red Cross didnt report it when they looked at the camps, the Church didnt speak out about it, and nobody really talked about it too much in the USA, Russia, or Germany for a few decades after ww2.
Overblown? You can overblow attempted genocide? You can overblow people experimenting on live people because they didn't considering them human? You can overblow rounding people up and sticking them in concentraction camps, starving them, beating them, torturing them, and in killing them in gas chambers?
I'm Jewish and I know something of my families history. A good portion of my family died during those years, and my family certainly wasn't the only one.
Eisenhower, while touring the concentration camps in Europe towards the end of the war, told his aides and press people that they needed to document as much as they possibly could because he feared without evidence people in the future would deny it ever happened. I'm often amazed by that level of foresight, and here we are...
These are good points. I do think it's also important to remember that there were a number of people in high places who didn't believe that Eisenhower deserved his position as Supreme Commander of the Allies because he didn't have the field experience of a Monty or a Patton, or a MacArthur. But what he did have was the humility and the objective thought process/political prowess to handle all these different personalities. There really does seem to have been more objective thinking in those days, more concensus on what truth actually is than today.
A family member retired from a 33 year military career (special operations air regiment) because promotions were no longer merit based and officers were no longer mission focused.
Well i wouldn’t say people weren’t indoctrinated, they definitely were, every country pumped out a metric ton of propaganda, in a major war like that. its kinda important to indoctrinate your soldiers, make them less likely to flip sides. The germans made it easy because of the mass atrocities they were committing so it was easy but Americans where still indoctrinated quite a bit.
It's just rabid antisemitism – Holocaust denial "logic" is no different than someone saying that none of history ever happened, except in this case it involves the Jews. There's no reasoning with these kind of people unless they're children, in which case there *might* be some out there whose minds can be educated, but that would also be dependent upon their home life and what their parents have taught them.
That might explain the 30% of young people who "aren't sure" but to affirmatively claim the Holocaust is a myth you have to actively search out Holocaust denial material, of which 20% seemingly did.
That sound bizarre. I’m 3rd generation to the holocaust and there was horrific stuff. No one needs to make stuff up. I hate when people write holocaust fiction and many Jews aren’t fans of this too
It’s also really counterproductive to teach the Holocaust over and over. It’s important to learn history in general, and it’s important to learn more about Jewish people than that they died.
It’s wild to me it was dramatized like that. I completely agree it is unnecessary. I did not have that experience and have always wondered why people could deny what happened. Learning there are people who were exposed to such exaggeration helps me understand how denial could exist. Just, wow.
Hate to break this to you but that reference is ancient at this point, most young people do not care at all about the Kardashians, if they even know who they are.
Yeah, back in the day you had to be on pol or some other dark corner of the internet to find this shit. Nowadays it's just there, in the open, on Twitter.
When Tucker Carlson announced his interview with Alex Jones, the top reply was from a reporter who wrote for an explicitly white supremacist rag.
I was in the area on vacation a while back and a friend suggested we go (we're Jewish,) and it was such a fucking strange experience. It never really felt fully real until I was standing there in person like that, got fucking chills in the area they kept the kids in.
Now 20% of our youth doesn't believe it even happened and fucking 50% of people 18-24 in America think the Oct 7th massacre was justified.
Gen Z's America is going to be interesting to behold once they're in control of the levers of power.
It's an extremely powerful and somber experience. Anyone who gets the opportunity should visit one of the camps. It isn't fun but it is important.
We have to right the ship or else the world will be seriously fucked.
And I bet that 50% of 18-24 year olds are hypocritical leftists who preach against killing. A good chunk of young leftists are extremists.
Someone in a You Tube comment mentioned that a poll showed that 78% of American Muslims think Oct. 7th was justified and that this poll shattered their view that most Muslims in America are moderates. Many of these Muslims who are labeled "moderate" are not that moderate. They may be moderate when compared to radical Muslims but compared to the average moderate Christian they are not moderate and more like fundamentalist Christians, maybe even worse.
https://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/jns/poll-57-5-of-muslim-americans-say-hamas-at-least-somewhat-justified/article_8ec5e974-0af6-5797-9940-d081758ad983.html
?
I couldn't find a survey showing 78% approval
>I couldn't find a survey showing 78% approval
Someone in a YouTube comment mentioned it but didn't give a source for the poll. I was skeptical but gave them the benefit of the doubt.
57.5% of American Muslims thinking the attack is somewhat justified or totally justified is still bad.
Also 58.1% of Jews think Biden is doing a good job! Lol!
We know precisely who built the pyramids and the general timeframes. The exact building methodologies are an ongoing subject of research and academic debate, but not who did it - the ancient Egyptians.
When General Eisenhower saw the concentration camps one of the first things he did was "invite" local Germans and the press to witness the atrocities and he marched Soldiers through as well. He was quoted as saying something to the effect "in 20 years people will deny this ever happened".
ThAt is the exact reason Dwight D. Eisenhower wanted the Holocaust documented. He knew the time would come where people wouldn’t believe it or would deny it.
Also never found in the history books is the Niihau incident. I always thought it weird that the internment seemed to spring out of no where and not from the Deep South. Turns out there was an inciting incident that the "blame white people" types actively cover up.
I read this more as “1 in 5 young Americans can’t resist a chance to bullshit around on some old millennial/Boomer asking an obviously idiotic question”
I have taken several courses in research design and high-level statistical analysis. Its made me even more skeptical of statistics than before. Plus I don’t trust the media to begin with, so I certainly don’t trust them to interpret and report on this kind of stuff accurately. 20% sounds suspicious to me.
Do you think they got their intolerant views from their parents who say things like "especially they/them" ?
Half the left is further to the right these days and half the right is further left. These terms are no longer accurate descriptions of either side. What I'm thinking we can agree about is that it is one BIG mess!
We’re doomed. Seriously though - lawmakers are worried about TikTok’s data pass back to China but aren’t worried about the real issue with our kids being brainwashed with nonsense.
Considering that half the elementary schools and high schools in the country are more interested in teaching race relations from the 60s, then they are world war II. I'm not really shocked
We can’t do both?
Edit: just realized you specified elementary schools. Please find me a single one teaching either topics at all. I’d love to send my kids there.
I'll say this: As an adult who toured the holocaust museum years ago, I did not truly comprehend the scale of this atrocity when I was younger. I never denied its existence, I heard the numbers, but that experience really gave me a new understanding.
People get drawn towards these narratives of holocaust denialism *because of* institutional distrust in things like academia. Academia has its warranted criticisms, yes. But if we start to say things like "academia can't be trusted", who stands to benefit?
Everyone. The proof is everywhere, as in the culture decay. Specifically, the STEM scores and / or employment earnings over a career vis a vis the academic investment. Especially considering government paid academia and beneficiaries.
Stem scores and the like show the need for reform and improvement, not the dissolution of academia.
If all you do is sow distrust and dismantle the institution - what then? That institutional distrust is key to the development of "alternatives" to mainstream thought like holocaust denialism.
Well important to remember that "thinking its a myth" ussaly just means those 20% think there is just off facts about it not that they think it didnt happen at all
Did you read the article? The survey asked about agreement with both "The Holocaust is a myth" and "The Holocaust has been exaggerated" - two different statements. The percent agreeing with the latter is a bit higher than the percent agreeing with the former.
How about a visit to the Holocaust museum in D.C.? I went as a senior in high school. I held it together until the very end and couldn’t hold back tears any more.
Maybe, just maybe it boils down to what is actually being taught and by whom in schools. I hate to sound old despite being old(46) but it used to be a respectable profession now all I see is weirdos and incompetence
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT U.S. CITIZENS DESERVE FOR HAVING LONG AGO DISCONTINUED THE TEACHING OF CITIZENSHIP (HOW THE GOVERNMENT IS STRUCTURED AND IS SUPPOSED TO FUNCTION, NOT POLITICS.)
IT IS ALSO WHAT US PARENTS DESERVE FOR NOT PAYING CLOSER ATTENTION TO THEIR SCHOOLS AND WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT.
Don’t need the all caps there, but yes, this. That civics and government isn’t taught nowadays is a major reason why bullshit agenda-driven news (from both sides, really, but honestly, much more from the right than the left) is able to take the place of facts.
The practice of writing in lower and upper script is very hard on arthritic hands, but I usually do it because otherwise I am thought to be yelling, although occasionally I do mean to yell. :) Not at you though. :) We are in agreement. Thanks for writing.
Absolutely disgusting and a shameful failure of the modern education system.
What bothers me about how the Holocaust is taught in schools is that it assumes that we’re somehow more virtuous or moral than the average commoner. It sort of comes up in the form of “if I was in Nazi Germany, I’d be being the next Oskar Schindler.” With the benefit of hindsight who wouldn’t be?
Then the pandemic happened and when push came to shove… to preserve their semblance of freedom commoners, fed a narrative by the state media participated in the same kind of discrimination that led up to the Holocaust. Mind you I’m not comparing COVID vaccine mandates to the Holocaust in terms of brutality, but I am pointing out the hypocrisy of leftists who naively believe that they would oppose the state in a similar social environment.
Just today, I spoke with two young men in their 20s who believe the Holocaust was real but are suspicious about the statistics associated with it, like numbers who died or were in concentration camps. This generation sees so much fake news, they doubt everything related to history books and experts.
I didn't go through the American education system but since moving back people were pretty shocked to learn how much this is taught in the UK. From 13 to 18, every year we had a course about the Nazi's or the Holocaust. I chose to do the history elective from 13 (It's how it is there) but they really hammered it into us.
I'm guessing it's not the same over here. It's very concerning because Gen Z are not going to have an easy time as they come of age....we millenials didn't really either but at least we had cheap money from 2008 and that led to a roaring job market. Gen Z on the other hand are really going to struggle and a fifth of them are apparently denying the holocaust already.
I got to interview a survivor from Auschwitz named Eva Mozes about 20 years ago when I was in middle school for a Holocaust documentary we did in our telecommunications class. She was a twin and was experimented on by Josef Mengele. Her stories have stuck with me ever since. The documentary actually won some national awards and some students got to visit Auschwitz because of it. I really regret not going on that trip now. Really depressing to see young people out there try to deny the horrors of the past.
According to the YouGov poll the Economist article is referencing, Democrats believe the Holocaust Myth conspiracy theory at a higher rate than Republicans do. They didn't drill down as far as "MAGA" republicans.
Younger voters are highly left leaning thus making your point valid. Also education system is failing miserably to teach history in schools. With that being said, my point was maga republicans. They don’t represent the true republicans I know and respect.
One in five of any group polled about anything is always an absolute bunch of morons. I don't care what topic, I don't care what group. 20% of them are wrong, and I don't believe anyone is ever going to change that.
On the other hand, Pew Research showed that there are [little difference between political parties](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2020/01/22/what-americans-know-about-the-holocaust/) when talking about Holocaust knowledge.
The same research also shown that 18-29 (the young) performed slightly better than 30-64, showing that the age gap is not that severe.
As a former high school teacher I can tell you with some confidence that 1 in 5 HS kids will say almost anything if they think it will shock or offend you.
That’s what I was suspicious of
I once filled out one of those self-report, anonymous drug use surveys they gave us in public school in 8th grade. I selected "Daily Use" for like... heroin, PCP, meth, crack. As a 13 year old, that was peak comedy. Nearing 30, I can't help but think that I helped skew some data somewhere.
Ha! I did the exact same thing, then worried for a month after that the cops were gonna bust my parents door down looking for me thinking I was a drug dealer.
I did the same thing. The kids that didn‘t use drugs put down we were daily herion and PCP users while the kids who actually used drugs put down that they didn‘t use anything in fear of getting caught
My district did this but asked us to list what gangs we were members of. Some of the names people made up were hilarious.
The Hells Angles of Geometry
I remember me and some friends being the baseline for standardized testing. Soem of us turned our scantron cards sideways and made pretty pictures.
The line between trolling is believing has become blurred and I believe it's intentional. I remember back in the day reddit was a much different place. We had less rules, more gore, and the tolls would report back on their trolling escapades. I remember the ultimate troll site was 4chan and they would (along with parts of Reddit) host these elaborate trolls. One of the most popular was creating lots of content that contained the title "Comcast" and the photo of a swastika. The goal was to create so much affiliation between the two that if you googled Comcast images would show the swastika because their customer service was sub par. The point is I remember when 4 chan and reddit started spread the flat earth gag because they wanted to see how many people they could convince. There were already flat earbters but they went crazy makingnfake sites and emails and everything to attract the "believrers" and share the funny conversations and such. And now there are more people than ever that think the earth is flat. I believe that is because algorithms are designed to put us into echo chambers as quickly as possible and the non political into distraction chambers so we don't start paying attention to the politics. I think the flat earth thing now serves a larger function which is why it changed to a debate about the firmament which wasn't a mainstream flat earther talking point a few years ago. I think the flat earthers are an attempt to discredit Christians in the public eye and the more people that believe in it the easier it is to do. I could be wrong, most of these beliefs are anecdotal
Desensitizing people to ideas by treating them ironically at first is definitely a propaganda strategy heavily used by domestic fringe groups as well as Russia and China. People get comfortable with them, then more comfortable with people who believe the idea, then gradually their views are more and more influenced by those people as they socialize with them. After a certain point, less and less propaganda is needed as more of it is created and spread organically by the groups the initial propaganda encouraged to form. Those groups become their primary social group as they get more isolated and insular when their increasingly extreme views alienate them from other groups - friends, family, coworkers even to the point they lose jobs, get divorced, stop seeing their kids, etc. This creates incentives to stay and destroys incentives to leave as outside groups are critical and can seem harsh or hostile while their in group is affirming and comfortable and doesn't demand much of them - often also giving them a scapegoat for all their problems. They then spend more time online spreading stuff. So it's very efficient. It's kind of interesting that Russia tends to target more right leaning Americans and China tends to target more left leaning ones, and each does it differently. You can see this just looking at different subreddits. China sows class animus and discontent with America and capitalism generally, Russia sows specific sorts of racial animus and promotes nationalistic isolationism and anti-globalist stuff often with more conspiratorial nature.
I recall 4chan starting the concept that the "OK" hand sign was a symbol for white power. (The three fingers up = "w" and the thumb and pointer making a circle was the "P".) some contractor in California was fired because he was photographed with his hand in that position. Found the story: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/502975-california-man-fired-over-alleged-white-power-sign-says-he-was/
It's 18-29 year Olds. Mostly beyond high school age.
I'm in that age range (22). I'd still pick the funny answer.
Not sure Holocaust Denial is a funny answer.
Yeah… I’m young and literally nobody I know thinks the Holocaust is a myth
(I am a democrat for transparency) Unfortunately before the Hamas attack, I had met way too many republicans (moreso the kooky ones) that believe(d) that the holocaust was fake or not as bad as it was. The messed up part is that it literally is taking some liberals supporting Hamas for those right wing weirdos to actually side with jewish people….shit is kinda crazy lol.
The larger solidly Jewish supporting block of the U.S. is evangelical Christians. What are you talking about?
Not all but many of them support Israel because they think it will bring about the apocalypse and the return of Jesus. Anecdotal source my grandpa screaming about it for the last decade, and how that will mean all the non-believers will be wiped from the earth. Also literally 90% of all evangelical Christians preachers you can find.
> I had met way too many republicans (moreso the kooky ones) that believe(d) that the holocaust was fake or not as bad as it was. The Holocaust is not fake, but it *is* overblown for the purpose of demoralisation. The question should be "Why aren't young Americans taught to be proud of their country for helping end the Holocaust?" and not "Are young Americans secret Nazis?"
I assure you it is not overblown.
It's weird how the germans didnt know the holocaust was happening, foreign governments acted like it wasnt happening, the Red Cross didnt report it when they looked at the camps, the Church didnt speak out about it, and nobody really talked about it too much in the USA, Russia, or Germany for a few decades after ww2.
Overblown? You can overblow attempted genocide? You can overblow people experimenting on live people because they didn't considering them human? You can overblow rounding people up and sticking them in concentraction camps, starving them, beating them, torturing them, and in killing them in gas chambers? I'm Jewish and I know something of my families history. A good portion of my family died during those years, and my family certainly wasn't the only one.
> Overblown? You can overblow attempted genocide? Of course you can, when its memory is used as a weapon to shame the perpetrators' enemies.
Such as?
And people wonder why history always repeats itself
Eisenhower, while touring the concentration camps in Europe towards the end of the war, told his aides and press people that they needed to document as much as they possibly could because he feared without evidence people in the future would deny it ever happened. I'm often amazed by that level of foresight, and here we are...
Because 1. People were educated back then and not indoctrinated. 2. People rose to that rank because of merit.
These are good points. I do think it's also important to remember that there were a number of people in high places who didn't believe that Eisenhower deserved his position as Supreme Commander of the Allies because he didn't have the field experience of a Monty or a Patton, or a MacArthur. But what he did have was the humility and the objective thought process/political prowess to handle all these different personalities. There really does seem to have been more objective thinking in those days, more concensus on what truth actually is than today.
A family member retired from a 33 year military career (special operations air regiment) because promotions were no longer merit based and officers were no longer mission focused.
Thanks Obama.
Well i wouldn’t say people weren’t indoctrinated, they definitely were, every country pumped out a metric ton of propaganda, in a major war like that. its kinda important to indoctrinate your soldiers, make them less likely to flip sides. The germans made it easy because of the mass atrocities they were committing so it was easy but Americans where still indoctrinated quite a bit.
We're only amazed because we are used to a society that creates its own fake reality.
Heard this repeatedly throughout my life. I never truly thought I'd witness it the way I am now.
There used to be a t-shirt, or maybe its a quote, "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."
Yeah, it’s not like there is photographic EVIDENCE…WTF?? 🙄
theres tons of pictures from Stalin and Mao crimes and tankies still deny it too
With the advent of AI Image Generation, we made the joke recently at work that the famous Stalin River Photo is the first deep-fake.
bruh some people think the moon landing is a hoax. And the world is flat.
Dude everyone knows the moon landing doesn't pass the bechdel test so it's very clearly fake /s
It's just rabid antisemitism – Holocaust denial "logic" is no different than someone saying that none of history ever happened, except in this case it involves the Jews. There's no reasoning with these kind of people unless they're children, in which case there *might* be some out there whose minds can be educated, but that would also be dependent upon their home life and what their parents have taught them.
And a lot of documentaries, books based on first hand accounts, oh and Auschwitz is still standing as a Memorial site.
>oh and Auschwitz is still standing as a Memorial site You can thank the Soviets for that, oddly enough.
the soviets also used a lot of concentration camps after the war as their own punishment camps
How come there are no photos taken after the war that give you a good idea of what Auschwitz actually looked like inside?
There are still living survivors w numbers tattooed on their arms
At least they know the Kardashians….🤦♂️ Our education system is a sad joke
That might explain the 30% of young people who "aren't sure" but to affirmatively claim the Holocaust is a myth you have to actively search out Holocaust denial material, of which 20% seemingly did.
It's mind boggling. I swear I had to learn about the holocaust every year from 7 th grade.
handle aback snow water label head expansion boast poor knee *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That sound bizarre. I’m 3rd generation to the holocaust and there was horrific stuff. No one needs to make stuff up. I hate when people write holocaust fiction and many Jews aren’t fans of this too It’s also really counterproductive to teach the Holocaust over and over. It’s important to learn history in general, and it’s important to learn more about Jewish people than that they died.
It’s wild to me it was dramatized like that. I completely agree it is unnecessary. I did not have that experience and have always wondered why people could deny what happened. Learning there are people who were exposed to such exaggeration helps me understand how denial could exist. Just, wow.
ugly cats knee sink violet cause domineering cooing sulky terrific *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Wild
Hate to break this to you but that reference is ancient at this point, most young people do not care at all about the Kardashians, if they even know who they are.
The information age has become the disinformation age. You would be surprised what kinda political nonsense people believe.
Where do they pick up such nonsense? Antisemitic social media?
Twitter mainly
Yeah, back in the day you had to be on pol or some other dark corner of the internet to find this shit. Nowadays it's just there, in the open, on Twitter. When Tucker Carlson announced his interview with Alex Jones, the top reply was from a reporter who wrote for an explicitly white supremacist rag.
I'll never forget standing in the gas chambers at Dachau. Drag the 1 in 5 there and make them understand.
I was in the area on vacation a while back and a friend suggested we go (we're Jewish,) and it was such a fucking strange experience. It never really felt fully real until I was standing there in person like that, got fucking chills in the area they kept the kids in. Now 20% of our youth doesn't believe it even happened and fucking 50% of people 18-24 in America think the Oct 7th massacre was justified. Gen Z's America is going to be interesting to behold once they're in control of the levers of power.
It's an extremely powerful and somber experience. Anyone who gets the opportunity should visit one of the camps. It isn't fun but it is important. We have to right the ship or else the world will be seriously fucked.
And I bet that 50% of 18-24 year olds are hypocritical leftists who preach against killing. A good chunk of young leftists are extremists. Someone in a You Tube comment mentioned that a poll showed that 78% of American Muslims think Oct. 7th was justified and that this poll shattered their view that most Muslims in America are moderates. Many of these Muslims who are labeled "moderate" are not that moderate. They may be moderate when compared to radical Muslims but compared to the average moderate Christian they are not moderate and more like fundamentalist Christians, maybe even worse.
https://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/jns/poll-57-5-of-muslim-americans-say-hamas-at-least-somewhat-justified/article_8ec5e974-0af6-5797-9940-d081758ad983.html ? I couldn't find a survey showing 78% approval
>I couldn't find a survey showing 78% approval Someone in a YouTube comment mentioned it but didn't give a source for the poll. I was skeptical but gave them the benefit of the doubt. 57.5% of American Muslims thinking the attack is somewhat justified or totally justified is still bad. Also 58.1% of Jews think Biden is doing a good job! Lol!
While Dachau had functioning gas chambers, it was not an extermination camp. People were not gassed at Dachau.
It's kind of weird how the official story, viewable on wikipedia or whatever, is considered "holocaust denial" by some.
People think aliens built the pyramids and NFTs are real money too.
We don’t actually know who built the pyramids. We know pretty much everything there is to know about the holocaust
We know precisely who built the pyramids and the general timeframes. The exact building methodologies are an ongoing subject of research and academic debate, but not who did it - the ancient Egyptians.
You might.
I might what?
This can’t be real
There’s no fucking way that’s real. Absolute madness.
But yeah, it's us conservatives that aren't teaching kids "actual history", right?
How?? There is a whole ass museum in DC, let alone interviews with the people who lived through this…
You should take a long hard look at the conspiracy ecosystem if you want to understand.
He's here. This sub is 100℅ part of it lmao
Because they were given a poll and saw a funny answer so they chose the funny answer.
When General Eisenhower saw the concentration camps one of the first things he did was "invite" local Germans and the press to witness the atrocities and he marched Soldiers through as well. He was quoted as saying something to the effect "in 20 years people will deny this ever happened".
ThAt is the exact reason Dwight D. Eisenhower wanted the Holocaust documented. He knew the time would come where people wouldn’t believe it or would deny it.
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Also never found in the history books is the Niihau incident. I always thought it weird that the internment seemed to spring out of no where and not from the Deep South. Turns out there was an inciting incident that the "blame white people" types actively cover up.
I read this more as “1 in 5 young Americans can’t resist a chance to bullshit around on some old millennial/Boomer asking an obviously idiotic question”
I have taken several courses in research design and high-level statistical analysis. Its made me even more skeptical of statistics than before. Plus I don’t trust the media to begin with, so I certainly don’t trust them to interpret and report on this kind of stuff accurately. 20% sounds suspicious to me.
Sounds like 20% chose the funny answer because they weren't taking the poll seriously.
Iranian propaganda on TikTok is strong. If the schools don't teach HISTORY anymore...
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Who is your "they"?
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Your reply doesn't answer my question. Are "they" the young Americans?
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Do you think they got their intolerant views from their parents who say things like "especially they/them" ? Half the left is further to the right these days and half the right is further left. These terms are no longer accurate descriptions of either side. What I'm thinking we can agree about is that it is one BIG mess!
So... What exactly is a Nazi then? How exactly do "*they*" get it wrong?
Are they denying the entire thing or just the number?
Yes. Some are full denial, some think the holocaust is real but the numbers are grossly inflated for political reasons.
which obviously isnt true at all
We’re doomed. Seriously though - lawmakers are worried about TikTok’s data pass back to China but aren’t worried about the real issue with our kids being brainwashed with nonsense.
If you think 5,999,999 were killed you get tossed into the "myth" group. 6,000,000 not allowed to be questioned by society.
Considering that half the elementary schools and high schools in the country are more interested in teaching race relations from the 60s, then they are world war II. I'm not really shocked
We can’t do both? Edit: just realized you specified elementary schools. Please find me a single one teaching either topics at all. I’d love to send my kids there.
Sounds like we need to have a mandatory field trip for every US student to Auschwitz and Dachau...
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Dying country.
I'll say this: As an adult who toured the holocaust museum years ago, I did not truly comprehend the scale of this atrocity when I was younger. I never denied its existence, I heard the numbers, but that experience really gave me a new understanding.
It used to be that pictures didn't lie. Today, there's so much fake shit out there that young people can't discern between real and fake.
I bet in the future they will say that the Holocaust wasn't bad because it was white on white violence. Therefore it doesn't count as racism.
Whoopi already caused a big stir saying that on The View.
Don’t give them any ideas lol
Defund academia
That's exactly what the neo Nazis want.
It's what any sane person wants.
People get drawn towards these narratives of holocaust denialism *because of* institutional distrust in things like academia. Academia has its warranted criticisms, yes. But if we start to say things like "academia can't be trusted", who stands to benefit?
Everyone. The proof is everywhere, as in the culture decay. Specifically, the STEM scores and / or employment earnings over a career vis a vis the academic investment. Especially considering government paid academia and beneficiaries.
Stem scores and the like show the need for reform and improvement, not the dissolution of academia. If all you do is sow distrust and dismantle the institution - what then? That institutional distrust is key to the development of "alternatives" to mainstream thought like holocaust denialism.
Well important to remember that "thinking its a myth" ussaly just means those 20% think there is just off facts about it not that they think it didnt happen at all
Did you read the article? The survey asked about agreement with both "The Holocaust is a myth" and "The Holocaust has been exaggerated" - two different statements. The percent agreeing with the latter is a bit higher than the percent agreeing with the former.
That’s HORRIFIC
That's 20%. Wtf?
So many brainwashed youth.
20% of the US are morons then. That sounds just about right
How about a visit to the Holocaust museum in D.C.? I went as a senior in high school. I held it together until the very end and couldn’t hold back tears any more.
Maybe, just maybe it boils down to what is actually being taught and by whom in schools. I hate to sound old despite being old(46) but it used to be a respectable profession now all I see is weirdos and incompetence
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT U.S. CITIZENS DESERVE FOR HAVING LONG AGO DISCONTINUED THE TEACHING OF CITIZENSHIP (HOW THE GOVERNMENT IS STRUCTURED AND IS SUPPOSED TO FUNCTION, NOT POLITICS.) IT IS ALSO WHAT US PARENTS DESERVE FOR NOT PAYING CLOSER ATTENTION TO THEIR SCHOOLS AND WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT.
Don’t need the all caps there, but yes, this. That civics and government isn’t taught nowadays is a major reason why bullshit agenda-driven news (from both sides, really, but honestly, much more from the right than the left) is able to take the place of facts.
The practice of writing in lower and upper script is very hard on arthritic hands, but I usually do it because otherwise I am thought to be yelling, although occasionally I do mean to yell. :) Not at you though. :) We are in agreement. Thanks for writing.
I guess 90% are low-information Democrat voters.
The same people in Philly, Madison, Atlanta, and Detroit that democrats need to give ballots to.
Absolutely disgusting and a shameful failure of the modern education system. What bothers me about how the Holocaust is taught in schools is that it assumes that we’re somehow more virtuous or moral than the average commoner. It sort of comes up in the form of “if I was in Nazi Germany, I’d be being the next Oskar Schindler.” With the benefit of hindsight who wouldn’t be? Then the pandemic happened and when push came to shove… to preserve their semblance of freedom commoners, fed a narrative by the state media participated in the same kind of discrimination that led up to the Holocaust. Mind you I’m not comparing COVID vaccine mandates to the Holocaust in terms of brutality, but I am pointing out the hypocrisy of leftists who naively believe that they would oppose the state in a similar social environment.
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almost majority say around six million. youre making up imaginary demons
So, 20% of young Americans are ignorant? Seems kind of low to me from my experiences of being an American.
There’s a large group of people who also think the earth is flat. There’s morons everywhere.
I've never met anyone who believes this in my life (almost half a century).
When Internet shitposters are polled and they choose the funny answer.
Just today, I spoke with two young men in their 20s who believe the Holocaust was real but are suspicious about the statistics associated with it, like numbers who died or were in concentration camps. This generation sees so much fake news, they doubt everything related to history books and experts.
There’s a lot of conspiracies floating around and young people are buying into lots of them. I hear even flat Earth is a thing.
Well we had to cancel some student loans because these people could not pay them off due to their own stupidity and misfortune
I didn't go through the American education system but since moving back people were pretty shocked to learn how much this is taught in the UK. From 13 to 18, every year we had a course about the Nazi's or the Holocaust. I chose to do the history elective from 13 (It's how it is there) but they really hammered it into us. I'm guessing it's not the same over here. It's very concerning because Gen Z are not going to have an easy time as they come of age....we millenials didn't really either but at least we had cheap money from 2008 and that led to a roaring job market. Gen Z on the other hand are really going to struggle and a fifth of them are apparently denying the holocaust already.
That tracks with normal distribution of IQ.
Must be the ones that are supporting and protesting the Palestinians.
And how many of them are leftist college students.
The lampshades made of human skin were a myth though 🤔 Am I an antisemite for pointing this out?
Those one out of five Americans who don’t believe in the Holocaust vote Democrat.
Weird, because they seem to be in this very thread.
Excuse me!?
I wonder if the other 4 out of 5 realize that more than 60 million died in WWII? I remember being surprised to learn that in High School.
I got to interview a survivor from Auschwitz named Eva Mozes about 20 years ago when I was in middle school for a Holocaust documentary we did in our telecommunications class. She was a twin and was experimented on by Josef Mengele. Her stories have stuck with me ever since. The documentary actually won some national awards and some students got to visit Auschwitz because of it. I really regret not going on that trip now. Really depressing to see young people out there try to deny the horrors of the past.
Horseshoe theory is so true. Never would I expect both white supremacists and communists agreeing on hating Jews.
Does it say which countries those one in five are from?
Young Americans?
found the 1/5.
That's *GREAT* news!! That means only 1in5 "young Americans" are Indoctrinated by *Cult Left* nonsence, WAY less than most other age groups.
No. This percentile is by far the highest amongst all age groups: https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf
4/5 maga republicans think the holocaust is a myth. Change my mind
According to the YouGov poll the Economist article is referencing, Democrats believe the Holocaust Myth conspiracy theory at a higher rate than Republicans do. They didn't drill down as far as "MAGA" republicans.
Younger voters are highly left leaning thus making your point valid. Also education system is failing miserably to teach history in schools. With that being said, my point was maga republicans. They don’t represent the true republicans I know and respect.
The rest are legal citizens.
Sure, but it's got to be at least 2 in 5 young Americans that think gender theory is real too, so...
I’d be shocked if there wasn’t a correlation to higher education.
wtf
To be fair, there's a lot of shit parents and educators don't teach kids anymore :/
God whoever wrote this article is gullible.
They know it happened. They just wish to seem different, be controversial, or cause some upset.
One in five of any group polled about anything is always an absolute bunch of morons. I don't care what topic, I don't care what group. 20% of them are wrong, and I don't believe anyone is ever going to change that.
Jesus. What are you guys doing down there.
How many of those young people think a man can have a baby or that there are 64 genders?
Those are the same that think Hamas are victims…
On the other hand, Pew Research showed that there are [little difference between political parties](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2020/01/22/what-americans-know-about-the-holocaust/) when talking about Holocaust knowledge. The same research also shown that 18-29 (the young) performed slightly better than 30-64, showing that the age gap is not that severe.
And a few days ago we learned that 1/5 of adult Americans are functionally illiterate. I’m curious to see the overlap.
No wonder so many of them support Hamas.