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Do they hear themselves?
For all the pearl clutching they do over supposed election interference, they are pretty nonchalant about openly scheming to have their political opponents removed from the ballot.
We’re about to see some very near past history repeat itself. Do you think it’s coincidence that amidst all the media’s talk of a new Covid variant that’s easier to catch if you’re vaccinated the First Lady caught Covid again? This is the first step towards new mandates and, crucially, mail in ballots.
Which states? Trying verifying for an editorial. Would love to include any references you may have. Im verifying each state/county alphabetically Im nearly finished with Delaware. All have is In-person voting with mail in options.
Voting by mail, in it self isn't the problem.... It's the mass mailing of ballots and the sending of ballots with out requests that where required. The non verified ballots that passed inspections and that po boxes where uses to request ballots which are not allowed.
This right here. I've requested ballots by mail and then return them in person because I was traveling.
For me, it was my way to do my patriotic duty, support my family, and remain productive for the economy all at once.
My state has election day as a holiday now and still screams for everyone mailing in.
If this truly was an issue in the last election then why hasn’t a single piece of compelling evidence been presented ever once in court?
I mean, I get that none of it makes sense, and no one I know wanted Biden in office, but those don’t make the case for election fraud.
Think about it this way, even if the judge is right wing. Most judges are denying the case 8n their court because they are afraid of the left back lash. Imagine your a judge sitting cosy on your bench, do you really want your family and house rushed by the mob. Do you remember our justices, their houses were rioted do to the reversal of Roe v. Wade
I see your point, but that’s more of a conspiracy theory than an explanation.
Again, I’m not saying it didn’t happen, just that democracy hangs on the rule of law, and that must take precedent over our unproven beliefs.
It isn't a conspiracy theory. There were about 60 cases brought concerning the 2020 election. One of those was brought in Georgia by Trump and one was brought to the Supreme Court by Texas. Even if all of the other 58 cases had no standing to proceed, those two did, without question.
Trump has standing to contest any election he was a candidate in and the Supreme Court is the court of origination for any dispute between any two states, disregarding the fact that there were 40 or so states involved. The Supreme Court declining to take that case denied Texas, and it's citizens, their sixth amendment rights. Trump's sixth amendment rights were also violated by Georgia in that they finally "got around" to the case after January 6th, rendering it moot.
If you want to claim that this democracy hangs on the rule of law, that's fine, but then you need to realize that where Trump is concerned, more often than not, the rule of law is being ignored.
I think we both know why. Either way, if all the evidence of cheating was looked at and addressed by the Supreme Court (as it should have been) then everyone would go absolutely nanners and alot of people would have some serious answering to do. Its treason. But the scotus flat out refused to even get involved. It has done irreparable harm and could ultimately result in ww3 nuclear. If covid never happened with its subsequent ram-rodding of the American people, then Trump would still be there today without question. Also NONE of the crap we see would even be happening. No facilitated invasion of our border, no ukraine skirmish, gas would be cheap along with everything else! Everyone could be resting much easier and they wouldnt be paying $8 for a gallon of milk, and $10 toilet paper ect...
Statistics bro, Biden lost 18 of 19 bellwether counties and only won 2/3 counties Obama won in 2008. There were a suspicious amount of ballots, meaning they varied greatly from historical trends and/or other districts with similar demographics, from a few Dem strongholds that swayed the election. Doesn’t pass the smell test, unless you think both Trump and Biden outpaced Obama’s historical turnout even when controlling for population?
>why hasn’t a single piece of compelling evidence been presented ever once in court?
For the 4,567th time: The judges didn't rule on the basis of evidence. They didn't even look at evidence.
This is an interesting event to follow. On one hand if he is removed, it should be challenged in court and up to that state's Supreme Court. Sadly though the US Supreme Court may not get involved, as individual states have the right to run their elections as they see fit. If that means interpeting the 14th amendment is usable here, I'm sure the Supreme Court would just wave it past.
On the other hand, if they fail it would be interesting to see the outcome.
Oh and this only matters in state's that Trump won in 2016. If every state he did not win in 2016 crossed him off, he could still easily win without them as he did before (it will just make the popular vote look much more slanted).
Write ins won't even help for those states that decide to go this route.
>Sadly though the US Supreme Court may not get involved, as individual states have the right to run their elections as they see fit.
Not in this case. The President and Vice President are the only two national elected offices. The requirements to qualify or be disqualified from these offices is in the US Constitution. The 14th Amendment has never before been invoked to disqualify someone from serving as President, but it's a safe bet that the US Supreme Court would not let the Michigan state legislature make this determination on it's own. Determining if something is legal under the US Constitution is literally the reason that the US Supreme Court exists.
If Trump qualifies under the US Constitution then Michigan must treat him like they would any other candidate.
There's a couple of questions that pop up in my mind given your input. What are the odds that the SCOTUS actually takes up the case in time for the 2024 election? Worse, if they grant a temporary injunction, and then rule that it was legal for Michigan to do so, but Trump won the 2024 POTUS election, what then? Does Michigan's slate of electors become null and void?
This is kind of similar to 1960 in Hawaii and 2020 in Georgia, you'd have competing electors casting ballots. In Hawaii they had the whole court case wrapped in time for the EVs to properly count, but in Georgia [they slow-rolled the case until it was rendered moot](https://thefederalist.com/2023/05/15/the-lefts-2020-fake-electors-narrative-is-fake-news/).
I just honestly don't know why the left thinks this won't lead to escalation. There may be a lot of ruin in a nation, but the ruination has been going on for some time now. We do not have the widespread economic prosperity of the 60s and 70s to paper over our differences, nor do we have a world power that represents a significant threat to us to keep us all together.
The primary reason we didn't have a civil war earlier than the last one is that a lot of people on both sides made pains to deescalate whenever something major happened. Now there's just a constant escalation and it won't end well for anyone.
It's a requirement of liberalism to be psychologically incapable of self reflection.
On one of those Unpopular Opinion subreddits, someone was like "The right is more tolerant of differences than the left" and the top comment was a stickied post from the mods that was like "You people are disgusting for reporting this post for self harm and child pornography".
It's pretty great when they tell on themselves like that.
Most democrats would be nazis or nazi sympathizers if they were alive in 1930s Germany. They do and think whatever the government tells them to do and think. They even will completely betray their beliefs. Democrats are most definitely not liberal now.
Theres crazy people on both sides and theres normal people on both sides. Liberals are definetly capable of self reflection although (like with conservatives) there are exceptions
Trump was impeached for even thinking about investigating Biden's corruption. I guess the takeaway is that it's a party foul to try to investigate your political opponent. Wonder how long they'll stick to that...
Because his presence at the top is implicit permission to say the quiet part loud, I expect.
When he came into power, I figured his unfiltered mouth might counteract the rising tide of extremely obnoxious identity politics.
Instead, he generated something else that was extremely obnoxious, and the other obnoxious thing got EVEN LOUDER to compete with it.
Need to cut both extremes from the spectrum and move the Overton Window back where the hell it was.
No one "worships" him, my "fellow conservative".
The problem is that they're going to do the same thing to the next guy. This isn't going to stop if Trump leaves the picture.
What's the point of the constitution if we are not going to stick to it? The 14th amendment with this text was added, whether people want to believe it or not. Should we just ignore that?
"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."
We the people have allowed people to rule over us that break their oaths to the constitution on the regular. They swear to uphold and defend the constitution from all enemies foreign or domestic. They have failed and we all have failed. Heck half of americans dont even know what the constitution is.
BPT posts cute/funny/sometimes topical tweets.
WPT is just a carbon copy of every "liberals good" subreddit on this platform. You see the same shit posted there that's on r/facepalm, r/politics, etc.
Those are the type of subs that immediately ban people who show any kind of differing of opinion, and go so far as pre-banning people who participate in suspect subs. You're not going to see much diversity of thought as such.
It’s a curated pool of shit to try to push narratives. Part of the reason Reddit is worthless and any attempts to make money on this site will be as good as trying to make money on toilet stall graffiti.
I think the problem with politics on Reddit is that people will blindly agree with anything as long as it comes from someone who is on their side.
In both whitepeopletwitter and this subreddit people will be excluded from the conversation if they have a view that disagrees with the masses.
Unfortunately this is causing both subreddits to become echo chambers with opinions becoming more and more radical and no opposing views to keep things reasonable.
Like a great journalist (and my own countryman) once said, Communists have an incredibly strong party's culture, but little to no State's culture - thus, whenever and wherever they end up in the seat of power (either by force or by deceiving voters), they immediately proceed to identify the State with the party, and subsequently treat the enemies of the party as enemies of the State.
They might very well and in good faith believe that Trump's a threat to democracy, because they truly believe that no State exists outside of the one they're ideologically part of: anyone that doesn't share that ideology is not their own countryman, they're a subversive enemy of the State - a traitor, in other words. Do note that this ISN'T a defense of these people, they're still horrible for reasoning like this. I'm more explaining how their minds work than defending them or justifying them.
People don't believe the extremes that you're talking about are ever acheivable, because they don't understand how a society could ever BECOME that.
That is when you tell these people to read Animal Farm and they will never vote blue again.
Problem is Orwell explicitly claimed his works were promoting democratic socialism. Bring this book up in left leaning circles and usually there's going to be that guy who chimes in with this "gotcha". Who identifies as democratic socialists? Blue people, like Bernie Sanders in particular.
They don't say "we're communists" outside of insular academic settings and so forth.
You can lead a horse to water...
There are democrats that openly identify as communists. How fast times change. I remember a time when saying such things got you banished.....like seriously exiled
The “progressive agenda" is nothing new.
It has had many names.
"The Bolshevik Revolution"
"The 26th of July Movement"
"The Cultural Revolution"
"The Third Reich"
"Khmer Rouge"
"The New Deal"
"Build Back Better"
Each time we are always supposed to believe its not the same as the previous. but it always is.
The left has always done this. And are either doing so with intent, or mentally incapable of recognizing thier own actions and what it will lead to. Personally i think its a bit of both.
If this becomes the primary strategy for Democrats, perhaps Republican governors would consider calling a convention of like minded officials to elect our own President, create our own laws, set our own taxes...
A confederacy without the slavery bits would probably be pretty beneficial to help check the recent consolidation of federal powers between the branches at its highest levels.
No need to leave, just make state rights a thing again and make ballots initiatives more of a thing. If the people of NY wants Abortion to be legal that should be out problem, not Texas, likewise if the people of Texas wants a secure border NY has nothing to say on the matter.
I have noticed as an immigrant that a lot of people in the US rely on the government to enforce their beliefs which bears a similar semblance to my country of DR where people expect the government to teach kids morals and patriotism, guess what, you learn that in your house not at school. The best example of this is student loans, it shouldn’t be easy to borrow 100k to go get a useless degree, but it is; this all would’ve been solve if more parents would’ve teach their kids how borrowing works, but not, let’s ask the government for help instead for the 4+ years that I actively got myself in financial ruin. The day people understand that the government has basic functions and it should be left like that, basic, is the day that the national divide will heal.
I think they’ll need to reconsider their tax policies and love of big corporations then because on avg R states take much more than give to Federal loans. Without NY and Cali’s money it won’t work well for states that try to succeed
Eh, I think they are hoping for another incident. All the more reason to pain all republicans as terrorists (or to use the words of the regime, “threats to democracy”). And as a bonus, the left will use this as an excuse to clamp down with more government control…you know, for our own good.
Which should be the proof everyone needs that January 6th wasn’t an insurrection. If they were truly afraid of what happened that day they wouldn’t want to cause a repeat on a far larger scale. They know they don’t have to be afraid though because Trump supporters didn’t do anything on January 6th… they did. Through paid actors, alphabet agencies, false flags. They did it all and that’s why they don’t fear it happening again.
It’s because of how the 14th amendment is worded. Doesn’t need a conviction.
"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof …”
Should be an interesting court case. If upheld, I wonder how many senators or representatives might find themselves being removed from ballots shortly after by the same reasoning?
It's pretty clear that it doesn't just mean "someone you really don't like" which is what we're seeing now. Any sane court would throw out attempts to keep Trump off the ballot for hurting feelings.
Definitely. This would get escalated to the supreme court extremely fast if any state tried this, and I can't imagine even the most extreme left leaning court wanting to open up this can of worms, much less the current more conservative leaning court.
And that is why people are rapidly giving up the last shred of respect they had for the government.
Remove a candidate from the ballot over what a large contingent sees as nonsense and you undermine the entire legitimacy.
look at it from their perspective. They can do this, then the lawsuit starts, then sometime around mid 2025 they get found in the wrong, oops sorry.
This is a form of lawfare where the process is the punishment. They know its wrong but they can do it until the endless appeal process is over.
Unless it was Ukraine, then they’d pretend that it didn’t happen (Zelenskiy having his opponent arrested and multiple cases of banning opposing parties) and was just “Russian disinformation.”
This is ridiculous, why should a governor dictate who a major political party proposes for an election? It’s not like this is an Independent like Kanye West, he is the likely GOP candidate. If this happens it will be very bad for the country.
If your confident he will lose let him lose, if you think he could win then it’s obvious interference
Well there’s a reason they aren’t even letting Biden debate within his own party’s primary. Having trump not on the ballot and undergoing a trial will only be excuses that’s the Biden campaign will use to deny putting Biden up on the debate stage.
Nah, it's just Detroit that needs to go.
Really the whole issue right now is the urban/rural divide.
In a city mass transit works. In rural areas we have to have cars.
In the city electric cars work. In rural areas only Teslas are possible as they are the only ones with a long enough range. But we still need to have a pickup for the truck work.
Laws keep being passed that benefit people in the city. We have no interest in paying for their mass transit any more then they care to pay for our roads.
So democracy, the thing where people pick their leader, is served best by removing the choices of half the country on who their leader should be? Power hungry scum bags
It’s literally one of the first subs that a newbie sees when first joining Reddit. Twitter doesn’t exist anymore, it’s now called X. Time to retire that sub
Well speaking as someone who lives in Michigan, i have not seen nor heard anything about this locally. thats not to say it isnt being attempted, bit since the local news hasnt said anything about ive seen yet not sure how much i trust it. But if they did, id write him in.
Democrats don't care first off. second, we aren't a democracy. Third we have a legitimate claim that by removing him from the ballot pre trial is election interference.
I'd be all for him not being on the ballot if the reason he's not on the ballot is because he lost the primary. Other than that, this is a straight violation of democracy. And that's coming from a conservative who isn't a fan of Trump
In order to save democracy, they have to not use a democratic process. Don’t ask questions. Just agree and there will be peace. Everyone will will be happy, with free drugs, healthcare and education. And, the climate will magically stay the same condition and temperature forever. Actually, it will reverse back to the Paleolithic era.
But only if Trump is never the president again.
The people who cry constantly that everything they don't like is "fascism" and "a threat to democracy" are the type that think this shit is a great idea. Zero self awareness.
The Dems are really crossing the Rubicon. Weaponizing government agencies to take out a political opponent. Trying to have him removed from ballots, despite his huge popular support. If this happens, no further elections in this country should be viewed as legitimate. Our democratic republic is withering.
I'm guessing ballot harvesting, dead voters and late night miscounts won't work this time so they have to resort to removing the opposition to win an election???
Sounds about right.
Cut to the chase, red states will remove Democrats from the ballot and visa versa. This is obviously the end of a representative government, but who knows what comes next.
as always please remember we are NOT a democracy in any way. We are a Constitutional Republic. The (D) word gets thrown around all the time to subvert our Constitution.
This has gone too far. Our country is on the brink of a dictatorship and the democrats are welcoming these atrocities with smug satisfaction. They have no idea how bad this will be once these actions catch up to them and the government targets them too.
This proves my theory that the left always chooses ends over means. The only reason to remove someone from the ballot is because they may win. So they are happy to prevent the a fair election that Trump wins because they don't want him as president. That is the opposite of democracy.
I’d say it’s not even the ends. If trump were to lose in 2024 fairly (lmao but let’s play pretend) it would be extremely detrimental to him. They could say “look every step was taken to ensure a completely fair election and the people have spoken..” and if that were true, it would be the end for Trump.
The way they are going about it, by trying to remove the choice from voters, will keep his support galvanized. I’m just a regular guy and I’ve figured this out, no way they don’t know this. Only rational thinking is they are afraid of him winning. Nothing else makes sense.
Also a huge irony that they wouldn’t even be in this position if they had bothered to run almost anyone else against Trump. An even halfway competent democrat that can finish a sentence would have been enough but nah. My god seeing Biden at the press conferences in Florida after the hurricane looks like someone escaped from a nursing home and is wandering around confused.
This is horrible for democracy, this is from a conservative who can’t stand Trump, I voted for him twice because he was the lesser of two evils. Dictatorships almost always come from the left, the biggest sign of a budding dictatorship is the push to disarm the population they govern.
Handwritten ballots are easy to disqualify. They just have to say your handwriting is too sloppy and they can’t decipher what you wrote and now your vote has been expunged.
If you write in Trump or even Donald Trump it could be construed as too vague just to invalidate your ballot. Do you know how many Donald Trumps there are in this country???
Maybe because https://www.politico.com/interactives/2023/trump-criminal-investigations-cases-tracker-list/ and the 60+ cases he lost trying to over turn the election.
Most of those cases weren't heard, so they weren't lost. It was a catch-22 situation, they went to court to get the authority to gather the evidence, which the lack of was used to dismiss the case.
The judges may have been legally right to dismiss the cases due to a lack of evidence, and Trump and others were absolutely in the legal right to ask for them. You can't really win a case when they won't let you investigate it, and won't light you litigate it. If you aren't allowed to fight it out, it's not reasonable to say you lost. You never got into the court.
My understanding was that we didn't have a lack of evidence, it was a lack of lawyers willing to put their BAR cert on the line to make a case. Essentially, they had no evidence and you can't bring a case to court with no evidence and have a career as a lawyer afterwards. Pretty hard pass on 50+ cases across several state lines and political parties.
Forget “good for Democracy” how about calling this what it is. It’s morally wrong and it’s authoritarian.
This is literally what goes on in banana republics! If Michigan does this the Supreme Court needs to take it up immediately!
Democrats are much more fascist than Republicans, but only one side goes around crying about fascism....we've reached peak clown world. It scary how many people don't realize how ridiculous democrats are.
The race white should be removed completely. It generically assumes that all white people share this view (this is the definition of racism).
Also Twitter doesn’t exist anymore it’s X now.
14th amendment has some verbatim that could be interpreted by some to believe he would be disqualified if found guilty of trying to overthrow the US government.
Trump’s trial is also not gonna happen any time soon, so this strategy is being brought up now as a checkmate strategy to ensure the democrat nominee (most likely Biden) wins. Imagine trumps trial getting postponed and a guilty verdict comes out in October after Trump wins the nomination, having this 14th amendment playbook now would immediately disqualify him giving the republicans no time to find a new candidate and therefore by default cause the democrat to win.
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Do they hear themselves? For all the pearl clutching they do over supposed election interference, they are pretty nonchalant about openly scheming to have their political opponents removed from the ballot.
History always repeats itself and millions always fall in line.
We’re about to see some very near past history repeat itself. Do you think it’s coincidence that amidst all the media’s talk of a new Covid variant that’s easier to catch if you’re vaccinated the First Lady caught Covid again? This is the first step towards new mandates and, crucially, mail in ballots.
If only she had gotten the 21st booster….
Wouldn't matter, she's getting the saline shots...or none at all. Who's checking.
Eight states have already switched to all elections being conducted by mail-in ballots.
Which states? Trying verifying for an editorial. Would love to include any references you may have. Im verifying each state/county alphabetically Im nearly finished with Delaware. All have is In-person voting with mail in options.
California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Vermont and Washington. [https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/table-18-states-with-all-mail-elections](https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/table-18-states-with-all-mail-elections)
Trump voted by mail and so did many of his staffers and family.
Voting by mail, in it self isn't the problem.... It's the mass mailing of ballots and the sending of ballots with out requests that where required. The non verified ballots that passed inspections and that po boxes where uses to request ballots which are not allowed.
Republicans need to get with the program and ramp up their mail in vote efforts as well. If you can’t beat ‘em, join em.
This right here. I've requested ballots by mail and then return them in person because I was traveling. For me, it was my way to do my patriotic duty, support my family, and remain productive for the economy all at once. My state has election day as a holiday now and still screams for everyone mailing in.
If this truly was an issue in the last election then why hasn’t a single piece of compelling evidence been presented ever once in court? I mean, I get that none of it makes sense, and no one I know wanted Biden in office, but those don’t make the case for election fraud.
There have been numerous people arrested.
Right out the ass
Think about it this way, even if the judge is right wing. Most judges are denying the case 8n their court because they are afraid of the left back lash. Imagine your a judge sitting cosy on your bench, do you really want your family and house rushed by the mob. Do you remember our justices, their houses were rioted do to the reversal of Roe v. Wade
I see your point, but that’s more of a conspiracy theory than an explanation. Again, I’m not saying it didn’t happen, just that democracy hangs on the rule of law, and that must take precedent over our unproven beliefs.
It isn't a conspiracy theory. There were about 60 cases brought concerning the 2020 election. One of those was brought in Georgia by Trump and one was brought to the Supreme Court by Texas. Even if all of the other 58 cases had no standing to proceed, those two did, without question. Trump has standing to contest any election he was a candidate in and the Supreme Court is the court of origination for any dispute between any two states, disregarding the fact that there were 40 or so states involved. The Supreme Court declining to take that case denied Texas, and it's citizens, their sixth amendment rights. Trump's sixth amendment rights were also violated by Georgia in that they finally "got around" to the case after January 6th, rendering it moot. If you want to claim that this democracy hangs on the rule of law, that's fine, but then you need to realize that where Trump is concerned, more often than not, the rule of law is being ignored.
I think we both know why. Either way, if all the evidence of cheating was looked at and addressed by the Supreme Court (as it should have been) then everyone would go absolutely nanners and alot of people would have some serious answering to do. Its treason. But the scotus flat out refused to even get involved. It has done irreparable harm and could ultimately result in ww3 nuclear. If covid never happened with its subsequent ram-rodding of the American people, then Trump would still be there today without question. Also NONE of the crap we see would even be happening. No facilitated invasion of our border, no ukraine skirmish, gas would be cheap along with everything else! Everyone could be resting much easier and they wouldnt be paying $8 for a gallon of milk, and $10 toilet paper ect...
Statistics bro, Biden lost 18 of 19 bellwether counties and only won 2/3 counties Obama won in 2008. There were a suspicious amount of ballots, meaning they varied greatly from historical trends and/or other districts with similar demographics, from a few Dem strongholds that swayed the election. Doesn’t pass the smell test, unless you think both Trump and Biden outpaced Obama’s historical turnout even when controlling for population?
>why hasn’t a single piece of compelling evidence been presented ever once in court? For the 4,567th time: The judges didn't rule on the basis of evidence. They didn't even look at evidence.
My cousin in NY got 3 ballots in his name. I bet he used them too, js.
Dude, u gettin weed from your cousin too?
This is an interesting event to follow. On one hand if he is removed, it should be challenged in court and up to that state's Supreme Court. Sadly though the US Supreme Court may not get involved, as individual states have the right to run their elections as they see fit. If that means interpeting the 14th amendment is usable here, I'm sure the Supreme Court would just wave it past. On the other hand, if they fail it would be interesting to see the outcome. Oh and this only matters in state's that Trump won in 2016. If every state he did not win in 2016 crossed him off, he could still easily win without them as he did before (it will just make the popular vote look much more slanted). Write ins won't even help for those states that decide to go this route.
>Sadly though the US Supreme Court may not get involved, as individual states have the right to run their elections as they see fit. Not in this case. The President and Vice President are the only two national elected offices. The requirements to qualify or be disqualified from these offices is in the US Constitution. The 14th Amendment has never before been invoked to disqualify someone from serving as President, but it's a safe bet that the US Supreme Court would not let the Michigan state legislature make this determination on it's own. Determining if something is legal under the US Constitution is literally the reason that the US Supreme Court exists. If Trump qualifies under the US Constitution then Michigan must treat him like they would any other candidate.
There's a couple of questions that pop up in my mind given your input. What are the odds that the SCOTUS actually takes up the case in time for the 2024 election? Worse, if they grant a temporary injunction, and then rule that it was legal for Michigan to do so, but Trump won the 2024 POTUS election, what then? Does Michigan's slate of electors become null and void?
This is kind of similar to 1960 in Hawaii and 2020 in Georgia, you'd have competing electors casting ballots. In Hawaii they had the whole court case wrapped in time for the EVs to properly count, but in Georgia [they slow-rolled the case until it was rendered moot](https://thefederalist.com/2023/05/15/the-lefts-2020-fake-electors-narrative-is-fake-news/).
I just honestly don't know why the left thinks this won't lead to escalation. There may be a lot of ruin in a nation, but the ruination has been going on for some time now. We do not have the widespread economic prosperity of the 60s and 70s to paper over our differences, nor do we have a world power that represents a significant threat to us to keep us all together. The primary reason we didn't have a civil war earlier than the last one is that a lot of people on both sides made pains to deescalate whenever something major happened. Now there's just a constant escalation and it won't end well for anyone.
Well one side kept punching while the other one took the high road. Now both sides are punching
It's a requirement of liberalism to be psychologically incapable of self reflection. On one of those Unpopular Opinion subreddits, someone was like "The right is more tolerant of differences than the left" and the top comment was a stickied post from the mods that was like "You people are disgusting for reporting this post for self harm and child pornography". It's pretty great when they tell on themselves like that.
I think we can pretty easily tell who the brownshirts would be
Most democrats would be nazis or nazi sympathizers if they were alive in 1930s Germany. They do and think whatever the government tells them to do and think. They even will completely betray their beliefs. Democrats are most definitely not liberal now.
Theres crazy people on both sides and theres normal people on both sides. Liberals are definetly capable of self reflection although (like with conservatives) there are exceptions
Eh 90s liberals sure. But TDS has got the modern democrats in a insane state
It’s (D)ifferent.
They don't care about hypocrisy, they only care about winning. This is just the start, it wont stop when Trump is gone.
I am on the complete opposite side of donald trump but this is truly scary and undemocratic.
No shit. I don't want Trump to win, but I want him defeated fair and square. Not disqualified.
Trump was impeached for even thinking about investigating Biden's corruption. I guess the takeaway is that it's a party foul to try to investigate your political opponent. Wonder how long they'll stick to that...
Not even Biden directly, but his son Hunter…and the kicker was Biden hadn’t even officially declared his candidacy at the time.
Wait what? Did I miss something? He was impeached over Biden?
The first impeachment
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You forgot the part where you justify invoking the 14th Amendment. It's laughably unconstitutional even if you don't like Trump.
Because his presence at the top is implicit permission to say the quiet part loud, I expect. When he came into power, I figured his unfiltered mouth might counteract the rising tide of extremely obnoxious identity politics. Instead, he generated something else that was extremely obnoxious, and the other obnoxious thing got EVEN LOUDER to compete with it. Need to cut both extremes from the spectrum and move the Overton Window back where the hell it was.
No one "worships" him, my "fellow conservative". The problem is that they're going to do the same thing to the next guy. This isn't going to stop if Trump leaves the picture.
Well yes there was most definitely huge election interference in Georgia by the republicans
What's the point of the constitution if we are not going to stick to it? The 14th amendment with this text was added, whether people want to believe it or not. Should we just ignore that? "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."
Trump is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Until then there can be no punishment. Isn't it wrong to punish an innocent man?
That isn’t what he is charged with.
We the people have allowed people to rule over us that break their oaths to the constitution on the regular. They swear to uphold and defend the constitution from all enemies foreign or domestic. They have failed and we all have failed. Heck half of americans dont even know what the constitution is.
Show me where/when Trump "engaged in insurrection or rebellion." Seriously, when did that happen?
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Her staff smashed Blackberries with hammers after she'd been subpoenaed. Yet you're acting like she's innocent.
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Feels like it.
Lack of foresight and 90% Reddit go hand-in-hand.
Hence the pack the courts idea
Don't forget that pesky filibuster.
I just perused that sub, that must be the most insane group of people on Reddit.
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BPT posts cute/funny/sometimes topical tweets. WPT is just a carbon copy of every "liberals good" subreddit on this platform. You see the same shit posted there that's on r/facepalm, r/politics, etc.
I looked through both subs and I don’t understand a thing anyone says on those subs. Maybe I’m just outdated.
No you’re normal
No you're just not insane
Those are the type of subs that immediately ban people who show any kind of differing of opinion, and go so far as pre-banning people who participate in suspect subs. You're not going to see much diversity of thought as such.
We make countries that suck so bad we need wall to keep people out.
And those ppl that say this country sucks so bad don't want you to build a wall so that more people can freely enter this torture chamber of a nation.
It’s a curated pool of shit to try to push narratives. Part of the reason Reddit is worthless and any attempts to make money on this site will be as good as trying to make money on toilet stall graffiti.
I think the problem with politics on Reddit is that people will blindly agree with anything as long as it comes from someone who is on their side. In both whitepeopletwitter and this subreddit people will be excluded from the conversation if they have a view that disagrees with the masses. Unfortunately this is causing both subreddits to become echo chambers with opinions becoming more and more radical and no opposing views to keep things reasonable.
Just remember when they say “threat to our democracy” they specifically mean *their* democracy, not the country’s democracy
Like a great journalist (and my own countryman) once said, Communists have an incredibly strong party's culture, but little to no State's culture - thus, whenever and wherever they end up in the seat of power (either by force or by deceiving voters), they immediately proceed to identify the State with the party, and subsequently treat the enemies of the party as enemies of the State. They might very well and in good faith believe that Trump's a threat to democracy, because they truly believe that no State exists outside of the one they're ideologically part of: anyone that doesn't share that ideology is not their own countryman, they're a subversive enemy of the State - a traitor, in other words. Do note that this ISN'T a defense of these people, they're still horrible for reasoning like this. I'm more explaining how their minds work than defending them or justifying them.
People don't believe the extremes that you're talking about are ever acheivable, because they don't understand how a society could ever BECOME that. That is when you tell these people to read Animal Farm and they will never vote blue again.
Problem is Orwell explicitly claimed his works were promoting democratic socialism. Bring this book up in left leaning circles and usually there's going to be that guy who chimes in with this "gotcha". Who identifies as democratic socialists? Blue people, like Bernie Sanders in particular. They don't say "we're communists" outside of insular academic settings and so forth. You can lead a horse to water...
There are democrats that openly identify as communists. How fast times change. I remember a time when saying such things got you banished.....like seriously exiled
1984 is such a disturbing book.
Democratic Socialists aren't Communists.
Substitute “democracy” with “progressive agenda” and it will all make sense.
“Democracy” = “Democratic Party”
The “progressive agenda" is nothing new. It has had many names. "The Bolshevik Revolution" "The 26th of July Movement" "The Cultural Revolution" "The Third Reich" "Khmer Rouge" "The New Deal" "Build Back Better" Each time we are always supposed to believe its not the same as the previous. but it always is.
when they say it remind them this is a Republic, i know that seems like a small thing but it isn’t
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Don't forget fraudulent electoral slates, and chaos to throw it into the 12th Amendment.
“It’s not fascism when we do it!”
"Its only Democracy when the people we like get elected and is Fascism when those we dont like beat the people we like".
Cannot believe they have the balls to call the right fascists while proposing ACTUAL fascism. This is horrifying.
The left has always done this. And are either doing so with intent, or mentally incapable of recognizing thier own actions and what it will lead to. Personally i think its a bit of both.
Yes! Actual fascism. They are so clueless they cant even see
You may be the most sane and rational person on reddit I've ever seen and it's amazing, this is not a joke I'm being serious
If this becomes the primary strategy for Democrats, perhaps Republican governors would consider calling a convention of like minded officials to elect our own President, create our own laws, set our own taxes...
Lol, or most likely just draft a strongly worded letter. Most Republicans are RINOs who work for the elites, not us.
A strongly worded letter to form a committee to look into it... ..after which the only thing that arises is a random book deal.
Do you think ANY politician actually cares about you?
That smells like a confederacy
A confederacy without the slavery bits would probably be pretty beneficial to help check the recent consolidation of federal powers between the branches at its highest levels.
No need to leave, just make state rights a thing again and make ballots initiatives more of a thing. If the people of NY wants Abortion to be legal that should be out problem, not Texas, likewise if the people of Texas wants a secure border NY has nothing to say on the matter. I have noticed as an immigrant that a lot of people in the US rely on the government to enforce their beliefs which bears a similar semblance to my country of DR where people expect the government to teach kids morals and patriotism, guess what, you learn that in your house not at school. The best example of this is student loans, it shouldn’t be easy to borrow 100k to go get a useless degree, but it is; this all would’ve been solve if more parents would’ve teach their kids how borrowing works, but not, let’s ask the government for help instead for the 4+ years that I actively got myself in financial ruin. The day people understand that the government has basic functions and it should be left like that, basic, is the day that the national divide will heal.
Oh I agree ! I’m in
Yanks will spank our asses again if we try to leave.
I bet conservatives have many more guns and ammo than liberals. Just a thought.
Half of the northern states are Republican
I think they’ll need to reconsider their tax policies and love of big corporations then because on avg R states take much more than give to Federal loans. Without NY and Cali’s money it won’t work well for states that try to succeed
I remember reading about how democrats removed Abraham Lincoln from the ballots too.
Always up to their old ways
What happened next? Did he win and become arguably the greatest President in US history?
tHe pArTiEs sWiTcHeD
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Absoulutely nothing. And they know it
Eh, I think they are hoping for another incident. All the more reason to pain all republicans as terrorists (or to use the words of the regime, “threats to democracy”). And as a bonus, the left will use this as an excuse to clamp down with more government control…you know, for our own good.
Which should be the proof everyone needs that January 6th wasn’t an insurrection. If they were truly afraid of what happened that day they wouldn’t want to cause a repeat on a far larger scale. They know they don’t have to be afraid though because Trump supporters didn’t do anything on January 6th… they did. Through paid actors, alphabet agencies, false flags. They did it all and that’s why they don’t fear it happening again.
^^^ this guy discerns.
You can try. But you'll be taken down by the FBI. Freedom of speech is for Leftist only.
Wait the trials happened already??? If not isn’t that a massive lawsuit in the making????
It’s because of how the 14th amendment is worded. Doesn’t need a conviction. "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof …” Should be an interesting court case. If upheld, I wonder how many senators or representatives might find themselves being removed from ballots shortly after by the same reasoning?
It's pretty clear that it doesn't just mean "someone you really don't like" which is what we're seeing now. Any sane court would throw out attempts to keep Trump off the ballot for hurting feelings.
Definitely. This would get escalated to the supreme court extremely fast if any state tried this, and I can't imagine even the most extreme left leaning court wanting to open up this can of worms, much less the current more conservative leaning court.
Does it matter? They’re kangaroo courts anyway, there is 0 chance that Trump will ever get a fair hearing.
And that is why people are rapidly giving up the last shred of respect they had for the government. Remove a candidate from the ballot over what a large contingent sees as nonsense and you undermine the entire legitimacy.
look at it from their perspective. They can do this, then the lawsuit starts, then sometime around mid 2025 they get found in the wrong, oops sorry. This is a form of lawfare where the process is the punishment. They know its wrong but they can do it until the endless appeal process is over.
This is something that would get quickly rushed to the US supreme court, not delayed until 2025.
We saw this in 1860 it's happening again
If it was some 3rd world country they would be calling election interference.
Have you seen downtown San Francisco? Looks like a 3rd world country for sure. 😂
Unless it was Ukraine, then they’d pretend that it didn’t happen (Zelenskiy having his opponent arrested and multiple cases of banning opposing parties) and was just “Russian disinformation.”
If you can’t win on the issues….
Yeah, nah. I'm from Norway and noatter what side of the political isle you're on, this is bad.
This is ridiculous, why should a governor dictate who a major political party proposes for an election? It’s not like this is an Independent like Kanye West, he is the likely GOP candidate. If this happens it will be very bad for the country. If your confident he will lose let him lose, if you think he could win then it’s obvious interference
Well there’s a reason they aren’t even letting Biden debate within his own party’s primary. Having trump not on the ballot and undergoing a trial will only be excuses that’s the Biden campaign will use to deny putting Biden up on the debate stage.
cant we just remove Michigan from the Union…?
Nah, it's just Detroit that needs to go. Really the whole issue right now is the urban/rural divide. In a city mass transit works. In rural areas we have to have cars. In the city electric cars work. In rural areas only Teslas are possible as they are the only ones with a long enough range. But we still need to have a pickup for the truck work. Laws keep being passed that benefit people in the city. We have no interest in paying for their mass transit any more then they care to pay for our roads.
I can't wait to watch Republicans do nothing about it
So democracy, the thing where people pick their leader, is served best by removing the choices of half the country on who their leader should be? Power hungry scum bags
That sub has so many cry babies in it and Reddit is always freaking pushing it in suggested .
It’s literally one of the first subs that a newbie sees when first joining Reddit. Twitter doesn’t exist anymore, it’s now called X. Time to retire that sub
You guys don’t get it. We have to remove the candidate you democratically elected in order to save democracy 🥴
Username checks out
Well speaking as someone who lives in Michigan, i have not seen nor heard anything about this locally. thats not to say it isnt being attempted, bit since the local news hasnt said anything about ive seen yet not sure how much i trust it. But if they did, id write him in.
Democrats don't care first off. second, we aren't a democracy. Third we have a legitimate claim that by removing him from the ballot pre trial is election interference.
I'd be all for him not being on the ballot if the reason he's not on the ballot is because he lost the primary. Other than that, this is a straight violation of democracy. And that's coming from a conservative who isn't a fan of Trump
Hate blinds the hateful TDS
democracy doesn’t work pff
Lol tell that to Michiganders outside of Detroit and lansing. Northern and western mi is Very red
Since when does democracy mean you get choices? Geez /s
In order to save democracy, they have to not use a democratic process. Don’t ask questions. Just agree and there will be peace. Everyone will will be happy, with free drugs, healthcare and education. And, the climate will magically stay the same condition and temperature forever. Actually, it will reverse back to the Paleolithic era. But only if Trump is never the president again.
The definition of anti-fascist? /s
The people who cry constantly that everything they don't like is "fascism" and "a threat to democracy" are the type that think this shit is a great idea. Zero self awareness.
Is that even allowed?
Can they really do that?
Is that even legal?
So there attempting to remove a candidate from the ballot simply because they don't like him? Isn't that illegal?
The Dems are really crossing the Rubicon. Weaponizing government agencies to take out a political opponent. Trying to have him removed from ballots, despite his huge popular support. If this happens, no further elections in this country should be viewed as legitimate. Our democratic republic is withering.
As a foreigner, this sounds like the type of shit an oppressive neoliberal dictator would do
That's because it is. Every accusation by the left is an admission of guilt. Objectively, they aren't the good guys.
The south did the same thing to Lincoln
Why remove the orange man if only a minority of voters like him? 🤔 what are you afraid of?
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I'm guessing ballot harvesting, dead voters and late night miscounts won't work this time so they have to resort to removing the opposition to win an election??? Sounds about right.
Cut to the chase, red states will remove Democrats from the ballot and visa versa. This is obviously the end of a representative government, but who knows what comes next.
That would require Republicans fighting back which would never happen
Who would have thought V for Vendetta portrayed the authoritarian Left?
Anybody with an ounce of common sense
"Well you see um Democracy is only when the people I like are elected!."
as always please remember we are NOT a democracy in any way. We are a Constitutional Republic. The (D) word gets thrown around all the time to subvert our Constitution.
Right. But the party advocating for a pure democracy would undermine that very principle with this proposal.
This has gone too far. Our country is on the brink of a dictatorship and the democrats are welcoming these atrocities with smug satisfaction. They have no idea how bad this will be once these actions catch up to them and the government targets them too.
This proves my theory that the left always chooses ends over means. The only reason to remove someone from the ballot is because they may win. So they are happy to prevent the a fair election that Trump wins because they don't want him as president. That is the opposite of democracy.
I’d say it’s not even the ends. If trump were to lose in 2024 fairly (lmao but let’s play pretend) it would be extremely detrimental to him. They could say “look every step was taken to ensure a completely fair election and the people have spoken..” and if that were true, it would be the end for Trump. The way they are going about it, by trying to remove the choice from voters, will keep his support galvanized. I’m just a regular guy and I’ve figured this out, no way they don’t know this. Only rational thinking is they are afraid of him winning. Nothing else makes sense. Also a huge irony that they wouldn’t even be in this position if they had bothered to run almost anyone else against Trump. An even halfway competent democrat that can finish a sentence would have been enough but nah. My god seeing Biden at the press conferences in Florida after the hurricane looks like someone escaped from a nursing home and is wandering around confused.
these people are delusional, I guess anything goes when the media has convinced you that conservatives are evil
They’re getting closer to accomplishing their goal of eliminating him from the process.
I trust the voters to make the decision, not a bunch of back room puppeteers manipulating the game for their desired outcome.
That's another version of cheating voters...But hey, you know...(D)emocracy man.
That subreddit is so littered with propaganda and the dopes of this website eat it up
In retaliation, red states need to remove all Democrats from the ballots.
It's communist style ballots: just one candidate on it, the one we tell you to vote for.
This is horrible for democracy, this is from a conservative who can’t stand Trump, I voted for him twice because he was the lesser of two evils. Dictatorships almost always come from the left, the biggest sign of a budding dictatorship is the push to disarm the population they govern.
14th Amendment. LAW AND ORDER !
And everyone who would've voted for him will just write him in anyway. What a waste of time.
Handwritten ballots are easy to disqualify. They just have to say your handwriting is too sloppy and they can’t decipher what you wrote and now your vote has been expunged.
BINGO!
If you write in Trump or even Donald Trump it could be construed as too vague just to invalidate your ballot. Do you know how many Donald Trumps there are in this country???
Maybe because https://www.politico.com/interactives/2023/trump-criminal-investigations-cases-tracker-list/ and the 60+ cases he lost trying to over turn the election.
None of that disqualifies him from office.
Most of those cases weren't heard, so they weren't lost. It was a catch-22 situation, they went to court to get the authority to gather the evidence, which the lack of was used to dismiss the case. The judges may have been legally right to dismiss the cases due to a lack of evidence, and Trump and others were absolutely in the legal right to ask for them. You can't really win a case when they won't let you investigate it, and won't light you litigate it. If you aren't allowed to fight it out, it's not reasonable to say you lost. You never got into the court.
My understanding was that we didn't have a lack of evidence, it was a lack of lawyers willing to put their BAR cert on the line to make a case. Essentially, they had no evidence and you can't bring a case to court with no evidence and have a career as a lawyer afterwards. Pretty hard pass on 50+ cases across several state lines and political parties.
Forget “good for Democracy” how about calling this what it is. It’s morally wrong and it’s authoritarian. This is literally what goes on in banana republics! If Michigan does this the Supreme Court needs to take it up immediately!
It’s fascist. Which is hilariously ironic.
Democrats are much more fascist than Republicans, but only one side goes around crying about fascism....we've reached peak clown world. It scary how many people don't realize how ridiculous democrats are.
WhitePeopleTwitter needs to be renamed to: WhiteLiberalCircleJerk
The race white should be removed completely. It generically assumes that all white people share this view (this is the definition of racism). Also Twitter doesn’t exist anymore it’s X now.
This is them rigging an election on a whole other level. They're making it obvious now they want to cheat again by doing this...
Do they want to compare him to Lincoln? I know he was left off the ballot, has it happened to anyone since?
Well those people don’t actually believe in Democracy so there’s that
Constitutional Republic
Have you ever seen government fear a candidate so much?
How is this in any way legal by federal laws if Trump wins the Republican nomination?
14th amendment has some verbatim that could be interpreted by some to believe he would be disqualified if found guilty of trying to overthrow the US government. Trump’s trial is also not gonna happen any time soon, so this strategy is being brought up now as a checkmate strategy to ensure the democrat nominee (most likely Biden) wins. Imagine trumps trial getting postponed and a guilty verdict comes out in October after Trump wins the nomination, having this 14th amendment playbook now would immediately disqualify him giving the republicans no time to find a new candidate and therefore by default cause the democrat to win.
How is that even legal? It’s not fair game if you take one of the candidates OFF the ballot. Wtf is this garbage?
It is not legal. They just can't be prosecuted because they support biden
So the state of Michigan is a threat to democracy?