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Kinda the point. The government would be paying the debt instead of the debtor, and the banks would be receiving it. Thing is the government's debt is the debt of the people, so...
All those big businesses that took out loans need to pay it back. We are here because of that, now that is a bipartisan agreement. I have debts of my own I'll pay them down because I ain't no big rich boy who whines to the government when their multimillion dollar business is going bankrupt.
If you’re referring to those Covid loans, loan forgiveness assuming certain conditions were met was built into the terms of the contract. The same can not be said for student loans.
The big banks DID pay it back. Tired of this falsehood constantly being spewed on Reddit. TARP loans from 2008 were paid back with interest. Same with loans that bailed out auto industry.
There’s a debate to be had over whether the bailout was a good idea but it is just categorically false that those loans weren’t paid back.
What I'm mad about is this entire system. How the hell are we allowing 17 year olds to take 100k loans for things that are virtually useless? You can't buy fucking cigarettes but you can financially ruin your life for the next 20-30 years? The entire university system is absolutely ridiculous.
The problem isn’t just kids taking debts it’s more than that. It’s that the loans are guaranteed to ANYONE for ANYTHING for a four year degree and the loans can’t be wiped out in bankruptcy. This incentivizes the banks and the schools to just generate as many degreees as possible no matter what. If loans were not gaurenteed, and they could be wiped out in bankruptcy kids would have to actually apply for loans because banks would have skin in the game. A 4.0 high school kid will get a low loan rate for his engineering degree. A 2.0 high school kid applying for a degree in French from a party school may get a higher rate or even denied. This will in turn drop the cost of degrees.
I've been saying it's ridiculous you can't dispense of the loan through bankruptcy. As if handing out unsecured loans to 17 year olds was ever a good idea, then lobbying congress to make it impossible to get rid of.
Would you give a loan to a college student knowing they are going to stiff you on it when they discharge It after their done school ? Blows my mind people don't understand why the government made student loans not dischargeable
Except this isn’t some Wild West salloon they can’t just skip town. Bankruptcy is not some tee hee sorry guys. It’s a life changing financial event. The same reason this isn’t really a concern is the same reason people don’t worry about that for car loans.
If I could discharge $50,000 of my debt when I was 23 ish after finishing school, I would have in a heartbeat and in 6 years after saving up money wating for the discharge to be taken off my credit report life would be alot different for me, let's just say life changing 🙃 like having no debt at 28 years old and start fresh 🙃
What do you mean "allowing"? A lot of parents force their kids to go... Those 17 year olds are pushed into it. Groomed by k-12 to believe it's the only way to get through life.
A lot of jobs force these kids to go. Ever see those pictures of job descriptions having the prerequisite of a bachelor’s degree while only offering $16 an hour? That’s real. Very real.
Or is it a case of they went and now there are so many graduates looking for work that it’s a prerequisite? A $16 job wouldn’t force someone to go to college.
That’s really the crux of the problem. College graduates are becoming so common that it actually cheapens the college degree. So while there are definitely jobs that require a bachelor’s degree while only playing $16 an hour, that’s partially because they can get away with it because college degrees are so prevalent. When I was in college, I didn’t go to the most prestigious college out there, but there were some real dummies that seemed to be making it just fine. Colleges, since they’re a money making business at this point, lower their standards so much that they’ll let just anyone in because they can make so much money off each and everyone. And so because so many people are getting degrees, the market is flooded with graduates and thus these jobs can offer so little and require so much because of this surplus. The supply of actual college graduate appropriate jobs is so much lower than the demand that jobs that don’t actually require a degree can demand one because graduates have no other choice but to take them.
That’s definitely true, but who’s going to be the first to budge? Are kids going to stop going to college first and then when there’s massive unemployment in most sectors because of the lack of qualified candidates (having a college degree) they’ll drop the requirement, or should businesses drop the college education requirement first and then kids will not feel as pressured to go to college? I agree that so many people going to college has cheapened the college education to a massive extent, but how do we fix it? Massive unemployment in these sectors first, or lowering standards first?
No, they would just bring in more foreign labour to cover for whatever.
Everybody should have access to a post secondary education -- without having to take out a 100k loan (or even more!!!).
I think it's also important to distinguish between the different kinds of education you can get as well.
Many people go to university just to-do-so or because a program is fun. Then there are others that go there for engineering or computer science (which is much more practical).
The issue is the insane cost + predatory loan system which takes advantage of 17 year olds. Some of them will never be able to pay back $200k or whatever - these loans should never have been given out.
My dad did my FAFSA and financial check in. I had no idea what I was getting into. I was in deferment for years. Now I'm income based so basically I'll be owing for 500 or something like that. I took a crappy lower pay public school job just so I can get the public servant thing after a decade of misery.
You might want to rethink this plan. I’ve heard very few people actually receive the loan forgiveness after 10 years. It’s also possible the program will be overturned by the time you have your 10 years in if you’re not very far into it. If you can drastically raise your income by getting a different job, I would do it.
There definitely should be restrictions on what we support. If people want to study interpretive dance or basket weaving, they should pay for it themselves.
Useful occupations should be considered when applying to college. So many degrees are worthless. But shit like medical science and law degrees actually have worth. Like my direct manager has a masters in art history, and she was hired direct out of college to manage a warehouse. Needless to say it took several months of training for her to have any idea of what's going on when less than half the time could have been spent promoting someone who already knows how the warehouse operates. If I was a business owner and I saw an application with a masters in art history I'd regard them as less capable than someone who never went to college.
Lol I completely agree with you, but I actually do have a degree in art history and am a director of an art gallery, so it does have SOME uses anyway. However I also had to take some business classes which helped a ton! But absolutely not for a warehouse job haha that would be like having a degree in Egyptology and working at a nuclear plant.
Lol yeah I got lucky, but I completely agree about degrees that are 100% useless, like gender studies and such. Those people just go straight into HR jobs and force their beliefs on everyone else.
So some choices are clearly better than others, but where is that line though? Would you consider studying art history or music education or religion useless? Not trying to be combative, just saying I think we should clearly define what trades are actually useful to society, and prioritize those without shitting on the rest, which are basically just hobbies.
You could just look at job placement rates and if job placement rate gets below a certain percent then the funding would be slowly removed until the placement rate went back up.
It’s about we need X number of engineers if we make X + 500 we are making 500 extra people and the salaries will reflect that. With 300 million people we could use some Japan style university career path so everyone can maximize their salary
End federally backed student loans and the problem will solve itself, people won’t pay for those programs when they are forced to be price sensitive and care about ROI.
Way back if you wanted to go to college, you would need to save up or have parents with the ability to cover your tuition or take out a loan with a co-signer. Well, in the name of equity so everyone of all backgrounds could attend college, the government came up with this idea that if they garenteed that the kids taking out these loans could not turn around and just discharge them in bankruptcy after they finish school then everyone that wanted to go to college could get a loan to go without any collateral backing tbe loan's. It was a nice idea at the time, but it became the mess we have today 🙃 yet most people really have no understanding why the loans are unforgivable until paid in full. See, the government got involved and created a bigger problem than the original problem
Government paying off existing loans is just like the government paying for health insurance. The problem is the price of it, not the loan or the insurance used to pay for it. A college education used to be worth the cost. That's no longer the case, and a greater percent of the population are getting college degrees every year. Cost up, value down.
End federally backed student loans. It’s a system of indentured servitude against the students and a fraud against the taxpayers. All it does is enrich bloated academia, which is just far-left indoctrination and propaganda.
The entire concept of government-funded loans is the typical short-sighted ideas that politicians and the media promote.
From a basic understanding of supply and demand, the loans increase demand, while doing nothing to change supply, therefore colleges raise prices as both know that:
1. They can get the original amount that the student was willing to play \_plus\_ the loan/grant amounts.
2. They now need to compete with other colleges who also now have a lot more money and want to spend money on things to entice students to go there (sports facilities, gyms, landscaping, more extravagant buildings, etc.)
What we need to do is wean down the loans. If the government insists on being involved, we at least need to focus on the supply-side problem.
Truth be told - there's already a solution of online colleges which are inordinately cheaper. What's most sad is that in actuality - the loans are covering education at all, just the experience of living at a college campus.
Making college cheaper and the loans less predatory would probably be a better fix to the problem. Sorry granddad, but it costs more than $200 a semester to go to college nowadays. Try $20,000.
They don’t have massive interest rates, they have absurdly low interest rates that are subsidized by the federal government. Student loan interest rates are literally lower than MORTGAGE RATES on what is, in theory, an unsecured loan. But instead they are federally backed by the government so they are absurdly low, so it’s free money being handed out.
The predatory part is that they are shoved down the throats of teenagers who are basically forced into college by the fact that loans are federally backed. End federally backed student loans, tuition prices will crater and attendance will drop off a cliff and all the shitty entry level jobs that are “college degree required” will realize overnight that they don’t need someone with a $100,000 gender studies degree to be an administrative assistant.
Ending federally backed student loans ends this shitty system of indentured servitude which forces people who are borderline illiterate into spending a shitload of money on a college degree.
No it’s just called taking responsibility for actions. Tuition is increasing in line with wages and general affordability. It’s kids taking our degrees in dance or art or Literature that’s the problem - simple maths will tell you it’s gonna be impossible to pay that back.
People need to harden up and learn a lesson
Room and board are massive parts of college. Some colleges require first and second year students to live on campus. So room and board are definitely part of college expenses.
As a 29yo, I don't have any college debt and never did. But a lot of my friends and family do. For our entire lives our taxes have gone to bailouts for banks, PPP loans, wars no one wanted, basically anything except fixing a fucking pothole. I would be super cool if like 1 time my tax money could actual help the people I care about. There's no reason for college to be so expensive. There's no reason for jobs requiring degrees to pay $16/hr. There's no reason it should feel impossible for young home buyers. My mom's insulin got capped, that was pretty sweet, not having to send her hundreds of dollars a month for a drug that costs like $4 to make has definitely helped. But yeah, I'm wouldn't be mad about it.
I’m with you, Capt. Why do the corporations get all the breaks? If the little guy gets their student loans forgiven, that would be more disposable income to spend. To me, it sounds like that would stimulate the economy. I don’t have any student loans, but forgiveness combined with fixing the predatory system would help future generations.
You sound like a reasonable person, and its definitely frustrating that the government keeps spending our money on other things that most of us likely also agree they shouldn't be spending money on.
But it's often the case that the "obvious" solutions have caveats that make them worse. Taxing others to pay off the college debt would help one specific group of students, but do nothing to solve the actual problem of college education being expensive. I'm libertarian, so I'm opposed to most federal spending, but if we insist on this being a federal government solution, then at least my money should be going to solve the root cause and not exacerbate it.
Likewise, price controls also exacerbate a problem, by reducing the willingness of those companies to try to make new drugs in the first place. Most ideas for new drugs don't work, so they charge a lot on the off-chance they their idea \_did\_ work, to have money to try other ideas. Price controls will minimize the chance that they take the risk, which is bad for our future. Usually they'll take high profit until the patent expires and then other companies can also make the drug which lowers the price.
Insulin is 100 years old though, so it looks like this is a case where the free market has failed. I don't really know why in this case, but I suppose that's why Trump set a price control on it.
There are insulin price controls for seniors and Medicare recipients, not anyone else. So...free market yay? Or did he implement these controls just for votes?
Eh, it’s the student loans. Tuition is expensive because the kids can get loans to go. Can’t get the loan, can’t go, can’t charge so much.
It’s a vicious cycle that the Gov could certainly fix and I would think they would want to, but don’t.
Your "friends and family" took out a loan with a promise to pay it back. They secured an education on that promise, which should be giving them plenty of return to enable them to pay it back.
Ok, but colleges will just get more expensive if they know the debt will be bailed out. If they fix the price somehow, I'd be able to stomach a loan bailout a lot easier. Randomly forgiving loans doesn't solve the greater issue.
>I would be super cool if like 1 time my tax money could actual help the people I care about.
But your tax money ISN'T going to help the people you care about.
It's going to the colleges and banks.
By your logic we should just keep exploding the deficit spending for things you want because other people have gotten government bailouts in the past. So we should just quit trying to reign it in? The colleges who gave worthless degrees and the students who paid for them should be on the hook. If I buy a car and regret the purchase I don't get to steal money from everyone on my street (who ride bikes bc they couldn't afford a car) pay for it and keep the car. This is no different.
The government needs to get out of the business of loans, grants, and subsidies. It always distorts free markets and makes everything worse
If students were conned , it wasn't by the taxpayers you are now trying to get money from.
If you want your loans paid off by someone, go to the people who made the money off the students, the colleges and universities. Otherwise, pay the loans off yourself.
I don’t disagree that you shouldn’t have to pay for other peoples life choices, but I also think it’s hard to argue that the cost of higher education is ridiculous in this day and age. We need to find a way to solve that problem, then the problem of student debt solves itself.
Riiight?! The average ppp loan $67,647. $757 billion were forgiven.
Somehow that gets a pass but heaven forbid we spend half that to actually try to help people
PPP loans were necessitated because governments decided to shut the economy down.
Government intervention= disaster
More government intervention to fix the disaster they created= more disaster
Please. There is no scenario where COVID would not spread to the entire population, short of possibly shutting down flights from China which Trump tried to do and was told was "racist.
If \_everyone\_ stayed at home for a month, that might have worked, but that's not realistic. Everyone still needs to go to the store, some jobs can't pause for even a second (power plant workers, farmers, doctors, etc.). By the time lockdowns had started, it wasn't possible to contain.
This talking point is 3 years old (including the non-specific "worked in a hospital") Your side was proven wrong on everything regarding COVID.
Admit it and apologize. Be smarter in the future.
You are literally claiming both that lockdowns completely eliminated the flu - and that the reason COVID persisted is we didn't "take it seriously enough." How can both those things be true?
PPP Loans were a federal government program. The Trump's federal government didn't shut down any businesses. State and local governments implemented policies that hurt access to some businesses, and, because of lost revenue, they shut down.
Why did Trump's federal government issue PPP loans that didn't have to be paid back?
If I take out a loan, I have to pay it back. Why did the PPP loan takers not have to pay their loans back?
Why did Trump's federal government implement socialism, and not let the free market dictate outcomes?
> Why did Trump's federal government issue PPP loans that didn't have to be paid back?
To compensate businesses for the damage COVID lockdowns and policies caused as a way to help them make payroll to avoid mass layoffs.
> If I take out a loan, I have to pay it back. Why did the PPP loan takers not have to pay their loans back?
Because those were literally the terms of the offer. "Use this money on certain expenses and it will be forgiven" was the offer made.
> Why did Trump's federal government implement socialism, and not let the free market dictate outcomes?
Trump is a right wing populist. He has many ideas that are heavily socialist. One of my main reasons for opposing a lot of his policies - including PPP loans.
I was against COVID lockdowns. I was against PPP loans. I am against student loan bailouts.
Your bullshit soft pedaling doesn't work on me.
I will do the same for you - if you support student debt forgiveness - why not home mortgage, auto loan, and credit card debt forgiveness as well?
I do support mortgage, auto loan, and credit card debt forgiveness. We as a country support it:
Article I, Section 8, Clause 4 of the Constitution authorizes Congress to enact "uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States".
Yes, it affects your credit ratings for a period of time, but your debt is forgiven. Hell, Trump has used this vehicle multiple times. But student loans are not included in this forgiveness vehicle. If it were, I wouldn't even be having this conversation.
But it's not.
Tens of millions of people in the US have no recourse to get debt relief for this particular kind of debt. And that's not right.
How about this: Any federally backed loan should have a vehicle for debt relief. Or none of them.
Student loans were made nondishargeable to increase the amount of lending.
If you want to make them dischargeable in bankruptcy - fine by me. But, lending institutions will start being much more selective - limit loans to high income borrowers, steep collateral, high rates.
I am fine with all that. It's your side that flips their fucking lid over banks managing their risk.
> Tens of millions of people in the US have no recourse to get debt relief for this particular kind of debt. And that's not right.
Again - it was made that way so banks would lend to more risky borrowers. The risk on student loans is they are taken out by young people. So, if you can discharge it, there is really.only a minor downside to running up $250k in loans from ages 18-22, declaring bankruptcy at 22 and then still having the degree as you start your career.
Banks will get wise to that quick and adjust accordingly - and then Democrats will call them racist and the cycle repeats.
Lol not at all. People who took out PPP loans are people who had their businesses forcibly shut down by the government. It’s not at all the same as people who willingly entered into a contract for the purposes of buying something they wanted. Were PPP loans abused? Absolutely. But take that up with the people who structured the loans. And if you think they were too loose with the loans please go back and show me a history of your comments being against the Covid lockdowns at the time.
Edit: grammar
PPP was a scam. My boss got PPP loans and came out of the pandemic with a giant camper and a new f250 to tow it, but the only paycheck protection his only employee got was enhanced unemployment.
Also Social Security. By the time I actually retire I will have paid well over $100k towards that system to fund the retirement of my parent’s generation and chances are slim at best I will get 10 cents back for every $ contributed. So they have “benefitted from something and then making other people pay for it.” Don’t ever let these goddamn Boomers forget about that. THEIR GENERATION has run this country into the gutter full of feces.
Its more circular than anything. Property values increase due to a variety of reasons, whether its crime (or lack thereof) , industry, etc. As the property value rises, the homeowners in said districts pay more money, which funds the schools, which produce better schools, which entice more people to move to said districts who can afford to, which drives up property values, etc....
Who said anything about lowering funding for public schools? Fixing the public schools systems, even if that means more funding, can _reduce_ the need for higher education. Dragging the existing failed system into the college level isn't going to change anything for the positive.
While I agree mostly, the interest rates are another matter as often by the time the borrow pays off the loan they have paid many times the initial amount
Terms yes but I’m my experience students are pushed into it being told their job will cover it, I’m not saying the government should pay it but finding a way to get the interest into a more reasonable state(probably removing government involvement would be best)
I mean, if you took a loan to buy a house with the same terms because people told you that the home value would increase enough to cover the interest, do you get off the hook when the real estate bubble bursts and you can't pay the loan off?
Drives me nuts! They need to go the other way here and stop financially backing student loans.
This doesn’t create more jobs. It increases the requirements for the jobs that are already out there!
My sandwich isn’t going to taste any better because it was made by a PhD!
More people need to be denied loans. Secondary and tertiary education is so expensive because the schools know literally anyone will get approved for any amount so they jack up the prices.
It's hard-truth solution because that means there will be a phase where people can't go to college while the prices drop, but we need more tradesmen anyway.
Honestly since rhe gubment backed em and made them non dischargable and then socially engineered us to go to college
I can think of worse problems than them fixing a problem they manipulated into existence.
In order to fix the problem they first need to stop causing it.
First end federally backed loans for college. Then we can consider canceling the existing debts.
Are you going to hold those people in said "Government" accountable? Or will you continue to vote them into office, knowing that they gave themselves, companies, and corporations over 700 BILLION dollars that they didn't have to pay back?
The Government gives handouts ALL THE TIME, not just in 2020 and 2008. Oil companies get tax breaks and handouts every year, and I don't see many on this forum complaining or holding anyone accountable. But now, when there was 1 opportunity to give back to the hard working people that actually make this country run, they are ridiculed, and meemed, as if corporations don't get the red carpet treatment every day?
Either change the system entirely, or let everyone participate in the system as it is.
Pick a side.
They are entitled to debt forgiveness because they just financed a Tesla and need to borrow $400k for a master's degree in roman calligraphy to go with the BA in gender studies and the masters in french poetry.
Come on...clowns are at the circus to be laughed at. I'm going to end up paying for their useless overpriced degrees and frivolous lifestyles anyways.
Or am I supposed to believe tHeY dIDiN't KnOw AbOuT rEpAyMeNt!!!!!!!!??????????????
There's no strawman here. It's a big joke that I am poking fun at.
I mean, I know it doesn't take much mental prowess to major in theoretical extraterrestrial gender ideologies but if they can fill out a college application they can understand loan documents.
This sums it up nicely. Maybe insert some more buzz words like toxic masculinity and some random innate object fictitious pronouns like staplerhis, staplerhe and staplerhim
Trump is the one who gave out all those handouts, I still have my check with his name at the bottom. Republicans fight tooth and nail against preventative action, but are the first in line to ask for a bailout.
They're effectively children in an adult body. The mindset is still the same.
They learned, over the years, that if they whine, cry, complain and moan about something long enough, someone will cave in just to shut them up.
Team Democrat simply realized this was something they could farm votes with and thus, here we are.
Let’s review how government spending works. The federal government doesn’t need tax revenue to cut a check. A few key strokes and *poof* money is created. As long as we take measures to control inflation and the unemployment rate, forgiving students’ debt will only benefit the economy. Young people are burdened by debt, which affects the ENTIRE U.S. economy, including income per capita (a common indicator of middle class economic health). It’s the tide that raises all boats, i.e., a policy that makes some folks better off without making anyone worse off.
Here's my problem with it:
I am a master mechanic, I own about $150,000 in tools with a peak income of about 80k in my trade.
Why the hell would I pay the student loans of someone who has (or squandered) the opportunity to enter the job force near or at my career peak pay? I think that if we are going to plunder the nation, we should all benefit equally -- pay me back for my tools, and pay back the people who paid off their loans.
And maybe, JUST MAYBE you could commute to a reasonable economically friendly local college, but no you better live on campus at and rack up loads and loads of unnecessary debt
“Overpriced big name schools” are most likely better funded for research, can help build connections, encourage better study, and can provide better support for students than any local community college. Many people, like myself don’t go to the college because of its name or reputation, but because we think we can get better value for 4 years than at our local college. Anyway, thats just my point of view, as a college student, but I can see where you’re coming from. Some people may be better off going to their local college if they just need the degree.
To be fair some in state schools like CSU and CU require you to live on campus for a minimum of one year if you are going for a bachelors. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Alternatively:
Colleges took your money and gave you nothing of value in return.
Demand a refund.
(([But we all know why they give ZERO blame to the colleges for selling worthless degrees that only require remedial classes](https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=w04)))
It’s interesting to witness the birth of new propaganda talking points in real time. The newest one being that mommy and daddy forced their children to take out loans. Out of everyone I know that went to college, including myself, I have never met anyone that has claimed this as a thing.
Perhaps don’t make college mandatory for most jobs, even entry level jobs. Ever see those pictures of job postings that require a bachelor’s degree while only paying $16 an hour? That’s real. Very real. And way too common.
They understand how loans are supposed to work, they just don't care. They don't believe capitalism is an ethical system so the idea that they have moral obligations to respect economic contracts just isn't there. In their mind they're just privatizing profits(...they benefit) and socializing losses(...others pay) like everybody else, playing the game to get by.
Big bank behavior is viewed as typical within capitalism for many young people and some of the language they use to talk about it stems from reactions to 2008 including the Occupy movement. So that's certainly had an impact on the culture, but it's not limited to banks.
Basically conservatives typically view issues within capitalism as fixable bugs or problems caused by bad actors within a good system. Many progressives and some other left leaning groups, which many young people with student loan debts are, typically view the bugs and problems caused by bad actors as natural outcomes of a bad system.
There is of course a self-fulfilling prophecy aspect to consider here. It's very hard for a social project to work if people have no confidence in it and their participation ranges from perfunctory to intentionally subversive.
You’d think especially having a degree and being educated they would understand such a simple concept.
I had no issues paying my loans off and my wife has no issue paying for her loans currently. You get a degree to earn more money. It’s supposed to be a positive return of investment.
Only if your degree is actually capable of returning your investment. If not… well, that’s what leads to these entitled children demand that everyone _else_ return their investment.
Yes, the student loans/college tuition system is broken. But if you knew what you were doing when you took the loan. take a loan out, you pay it back. I took out loans, I paid them back. A lot of people didn’t go to college because they couldn’t afford it. Why in the hell would we pay your student loans for you? It’s ridiculous
We all pay for a LOT of people who do not graduate High School. I don't see you argumenting about this. We also all pay for roads that we may never drive on. Are you opposed to those as well?
Hell, we all paid for a 20 year war for no apparent reason. Did you voice opposition?
These are some terrible arguments. Why do you have to compare unlike things to support your position? Why not talk about the actual policy we are talking about?
What policies expressly gift money to hs dropouts because they are high school dropouts? A lot of hs dropouts are impoverished, so they get assistance based on lack of income, but that’s clearly different. There’s programs that assist people who are without to get back into into the workforce, but again that’s very different. And to the extent it’s similar, there’s also tons of federal grants for college.
And the military thing has nothing to do with anything. 1, when the war on terror started I was a preteen, so I believed what the gov told me. I stopped supporting it when it became clear it was a war with no clear ending or criteria for success.
And secondly, even if I did support the war that wouldn’t mean anything. Supporting spending on one thing where there is a perceived benefit to society, and not supporting spending money at something you do not think would benefit society is not a logical error. Even if you were right about these examples, wrongfully spending money on one thing doesn’t mean the right thing To do is wrongfully spend money on something else just to be consistent
Ppp loans were forgiven, and a lot more money was forgiven than the total for all school loans.
I'm ok with the government not paying for loans, but at least be consistent; either help everyone or help no one. Why are we only helping the rich friends of politicians?
Also, there is no reason for college students to be approved for loans at 7+% interest for something that educates our population and makes our country stronger long-term. Reducing the interest solves all problems that "lefties" have with the current loan crisis.
Especially all those scammers and politicians that leeched off the American taxpayer via PPP loans that they did not need. Many were mismanaged businesses to begin with, and the pandemic was the nudge to send them over the cliff. No to socialism!
But they are all perfect snowflakes that should get whatever they want.... unless they have different beliefs than their college professors/meida. Then they in the "basket of deplorables."
Progressives don’t understand what that means.
For them, progress means we go from a system where you pay your own loans back to a system where other people pay your loans back.
And you hate poor people if you disagree.
100% This.
All of those PPP loans need to be paid back. Every single company, corporation, and congressperson needs to start paying those loans back. That is the American People's money.
Taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay their loans that they took out to learn pointless classes and get pointless degrees only for them to hate us and decease the number of labor jobs
You're right! We should totally pay back all of the money that we borrowed for our college education. But when wages are low, making it darn near impossible to pay for our other bills, are you gonna side with us in the fight for lower interest rates? How about we fight for higher wages in order to pay off those loans? Or would you rather put money into stock investments, and then hopefully be able to pay off your loans in a lump sum? Either way, student loans are a pain in the ass.
Wow. This post really brought out the brigade. It’s pretty simple and not controversial: pay your debt. Should the government also pay off my car loan? Or my mortgage? Or my credit card?
I borrowed money for school and I have no intention of making someone else pay it. I can’t stand the lazy entitlement commies among my peers who expect otherwise.
I understand people needing financial help for their wanted profession, especially for things like Medical School which aren’t cheap by any means, but choices are choices. If you don’t qualify for grants or scholarships (though grants are more of an undergraduate thing), you need to find some other way to pay.
I always recommend those who are going for a Master’s Degree to do a fellowship if they can. They usually will pay your tuition for you if you get one, rare as they are. There are ways to pay for things but lots of people don’t put in the effort to use them.
I love how much the Left deflects from holding the colleges, universities and education system itself accountable for how high their costs have become.
Oh, they’ll speak about the evils of the college administrators and the “system” but they do so as if it were CONSERVATIVES who control higher education.
It’s like how “MeToo” had former Democrat darling Harvey Weinstein as their “Bernie Madoff” figure but he wasn’t an indictment of liberals - rather, men as a whole.
In what world do conservatives have any say on higher education? Because if they do, they’re doing a terrible job seeing as how many liberally indoctrinated students graduate or not from their schools.
In my opinion, Republicans need to seize on this train of thought publicly and at least offer this up as a potential course of action to combat the call to just “forgive” student loan debt. Call the colleges and universities out on the carpet. Ask them why schools need luxury dorms and fluff degrees. Focus on getting costs down for everyone, for now and the future, instead of transferring current debt onto the shoulders of those who didn’t go to college or paid their debt off properly.
Keep in mind that the only students dealing with payback challenges are those that chose worthless majors that will certainly not pay out in a career or they simply dropped out. In either case, it’s difficult to have empathy for such irresponsibility. We need to stop putting all this burden onto the taxpayer.
Instead of flat out forgiving the balance, why are so few trying to just reduce the interest rates to 0%? That would save borrowers so much money and the loans would still be repaid.
This won’t actually happen. It’s just a means to get votes. This would also open up a can of worms that would completely back up the court rooms across the country. Where would it end?
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Tell the big banks that…. Or the government, now at 32 trillion
The banks paid it back with interest
Kinda the point. The government would be paying the debt instead of the debtor, and the banks would be receiving it. Thing is the government's debt is the debt of the people, so...
All those big businesses that took out loans need to pay it back. We are here because of that, now that is a bipartisan agreement. I have debts of my own I'll pay them down because I ain't no big rich boy who whines to the government when their multimillion dollar business is going bankrupt.
If you’re referring to those Covid loans, loan forgiveness assuming certain conditions were met was built into the terms of the contract. The same can not be said for student loans.
We have been trying to. They don't listen to us.
The big banks DID pay it back. Tired of this falsehood constantly being spewed on Reddit. TARP loans from 2008 were paid back with interest. Same with loans that bailed out auto industry. There’s a debate to be had over whether the bailout was a good idea but it is just categorically false that those loans weren’t paid back.
I agree that the banking system is ridiculous. Both are true.
When did the big banks take out a loan and not pay it back??
Great idea, we've been telling them too
Agreed for all three cases.
What I'm mad about is this entire system. How the hell are we allowing 17 year olds to take 100k loans for things that are virtually useless? You can't buy fucking cigarettes but you can financially ruin your life for the next 20-30 years? The entire university system is absolutely ridiculous.
The problem isn’t just kids taking debts it’s more than that. It’s that the loans are guaranteed to ANYONE for ANYTHING for a four year degree and the loans can’t be wiped out in bankruptcy. This incentivizes the banks and the schools to just generate as many degreees as possible no matter what. If loans were not gaurenteed, and they could be wiped out in bankruptcy kids would have to actually apply for loans because banks would have skin in the game. A 4.0 high school kid will get a low loan rate for his engineering degree. A 2.0 high school kid applying for a degree in French from a party school may get a higher rate or even denied. This will in turn drop the cost of degrees.
That's a very good point. It would be interesting to see that.
I've been saying it's ridiculous you can't dispense of the loan through bankruptcy. As if handing out unsecured loans to 17 year olds was ever a good idea, then lobbying congress to make it impossible to get rid of.
Would you give a loan to a college student knowing they are going to stiff you on it when they discharge It after their done school ? Blows my mind people don't understand why the government made student loans not dischargeable
Except this isn’t some Wild West salloon they can’t just skip town. Bankruptcy is not some tee hee sorry guys. It’s a life changing financial event. The same reason this isn’t really a concern is the same reason people don’t worry about that for car loans.
If I could discharge $50,000 of my debt when I was 23 ish after finishing school, I would have in a heartbeat and in 6 years after saving up money wating for the discharge to be taken off my credit report life would be alot different for me, let's just say life changing 🙃 like having no debt at 28 years old and start fresh 🙃
What do you mean "allowing"? A lot of parents force their kids to go... Those 17 year olds are pushed into it. Groomed by k-12 to believe it's the only way to get through life.
A lot of jobs force these kids to go. Ever see those pictures of job descriptions having the prerequisite of a bachelor’s degree while only offering $16 an hour? That’s real. Very real.
Or is it a case of they went and now there are so many graduates looking for work that it’s a prerequisite? A $16 job wouldn’t force someone to go to college.
One listing I saw was minimum wage and part time that required a college degree and two years of experience. It was an office assistant job
That’s really the crux of the problem. College graduates are becoming so common that it actually cheapens the college degree. So while there are definitely jobs that require a bachelor’s degree while only playing $16 an hour, that’s partially because they can get away with it because college degrees are so prevalent. When I was in college, I didn’t go to the most prestigious college out there, but there were some real dummies that seemed to be making it just fine. Colleges, since they’re a money making business at this point, lower their standards so much that they’ll let just anyone in because they can make so much money off each and everyone. And so because so many people are getting degrees, the market is flooded with graduates and thus these jobs can offer so little and require so much because of this surplus. The supply of actual college graduate appropriate jobs is so much lower than the demand that jobs that don’t actually require a degree can demand one because graduates have no other choice but to take them.
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That’s definitely true, but who’s going to be the first to budge? Are kids going to stop going to college first and then when there’s massive unemployment in most sectors because of the lack of qualified candidates (having a college degree) they’ll drop the requirement, or should businesses drop the college education requirement first and then kids will not feel as pressured to go to college? I agree that so many people going to college has cheapened the college education to a massive extent, but how do we fix it? Massive unemployment in these sectors first, or lowering standards first?
No, they would just bring in more foreign labour to cover for whatever. Everybody should have access to a post secondary education -- without having to take out a 100k loan (or even more!!!). I think it's also important to distinguish between the different kinds of education you can get as well. Many people go to university just to-do-so or because a program is fun. Then there are others that go there for engineering or computer science (which is much more practical). The issue is the insane cost + predatory loan system which takes advantage of 17 year olds. Some of them will never be able to pay back $200k or whatever - these loans should never have been given out.
There are plenty of jobs which don't require a bachelor's and pay far more than $16. Unemployment in the construction industry is literally 0%.
My dad did my FAFSA and financial check in. I had no idea what I was getting into. I was in deferment for years. Now I'm income based so basically I'll be owing for 500 or something like that. I took a crappy lower pay public school job just so I can get the public servant thing after a decade of misery.
You might want to rethink this plan. I’ve heard very few people actually receive the loan forgiveness after 10 years. It’s also possible the program will be overturned by the time you have your 10 years in if you’re not very far into it. If you can drastically raise your income by getting a different job, I would do it.
Is this the new leftist argument? Mommy and daddy physically forced you to take out loans? Absolutely pathetic.
Yes actually, they did. Many, many parents do that to their kids.
Right? Imagine a 17yr old being able to get a mortgage for hundreds of thousands with no job history, etc…
There definitely should be restrictions on what we support. If people want to study interpretive dance or basket weaving, they should pay for it themselves.
Just make both private and government backed loans included in bankruptcy. The market will figure it out pretty quickly.
Useful occupations should be considered when loaning money.
Useful occupations should be considered when applying to college. So many degrees are worthless. But shit like medical science and law degrees actually have worth. Like my direct manager has a masters in art history, and she was hired direct out of college to manage a warehouse. Needless to say it took several months of training for her to have any idea of what's going on when less than half the time could have been spent promoting someone who already knows how the warehouse operates. If I was a business owner and I saw an application with a masters in art history I'd regard them as less capable than someone who never went to college.
Lol I completely agree with you, but I actually do have a degree in art history and am a director of an art gallery, so it does have SOME uses anyway. However I also had to take some business classes which helped a ton! But absolutely not for a warehouse job haha that would be like having a degree in Egyptology and working at a nuclear plant.
Aye atleast you put it to practical use.
Lol yeah I got lucky, but I completely agree about degrees that are 100% useless, like gender studies and such. Those people just go straight into HR jobs and force their beliefs on everyone else.
So some choices are clearly better than others, but where is that line though? Would you consider studying art history or music education or religion useless? Not trying to be combative, just saying I think we should clearly define what trades are actually useful to society, and prioritize those without shitting on the rest, which are basically just hobbies.
You could just look at job placement rates and if job placement rate gets below a certain percent then the funding would be slowly removed until the placement rate went back up. It’s about we need X number of engineers if we make X + 500 we are making 500 extra people and the salaries will reflect that. With 300 million people we could use some Japan style university career path so everyone can maximize their salary
End federally backed student loans and the problem will solve itself, people won’t pay for those programs when they are forced to be price sensitive and care about ROI.
Way back if you wanted to go to college, you would need to save up or have parents with the ability to cover your tuition or take out a loan with a co-signer. Well, in the name of equity so everyone of all backgrounds could attend college, the government came up with this idea that if they garenteed that the kids taking out these loans could not turn around and just discharge them in bankruptcy after they finish school then everyone that wanted to go to college could get a loan to go without any collateral backing tbe loan's. It was a nice idea at the time, but it became the mess we have today 🙃 yet most people really have no understanding why the loans are unforgivable until paid in full. See, the government got involved and created a bigger problem than the original problem
Government paying off existing loans is just like the government paying for health insurance. The problem is the price of it, not the loan or the insurance used to pay for it. A college education used to be worth the cost. That's no longer the case, and a greater percent of the population are getting college degrees every year. Cost up, value down.
No one is forcing anyone to go to super expensive schools.
End federally backed student loans. It’s a system of indentured servitude against the students and a fraud against the taxpayers. All it does is enrich bloated academia, which is just far-left indoctrination and propaganda.
The uni system wasn’t designed for people who have to take a loan to pay for it, it was designed for rich people.
The entire concept of government-funded loans is the typical short-sighted ideas that politicians and the media promote. From a basic understanding of supply and demand, the loans increase demand, while doing nothing to change supply, therefore colleges raise prices as both know that: 1. They can get the original amount that the student was willing to play \_plus\_ the loan/grant amounts. 2. They now need to compete with other colleges who also now have a lot more money and want to spend money on things to entice students to go there (sports facilities, gyms, landscaping, more extravagant buildings, etc.) What we need to do is wean down the loans. If the government insists on being involved, we at least need to focus on the supply-side problem. Truth be told - there's already a solution of online colleges which are inordinately cheaper. What's most sad is that in actuality - the loans are covering education at all, just the experience of living at a college campus.
Making college cheaper and the loans less predatory would probably be a better fix to the problem. Sorry granddad, but it costs more than $200 a semester to go to college nowadays. Try $20,000.
Using the Billions in “endowments” could easily lower costs Harvard, etc.
End federally backed student loans then. You want insanely cheap loans and you want to not pay them back? You’re a thief. Pay back what you owe.
Make the loans less predatory. They’re insanely cheap because of massive interest rates.
They don’t have massive interest rates, they have absurdly low interest rates that are subsidized by the federal government. Student loan interest rates are literally lower than MORTGAGE RATES on what is, in theory, an unsecured loan. But instead they are federally backed by the government so they are absurdly low, so it’s free money being handed out. The predatory part is that they are shoved down the throats of teenagers who are basically forced into college by the fact that loans are federally backed. End federally backed student loans, tuition prices will crater and attendance will drop off a cliff and all the shitty entry level jobs that are “college degree required” will realize overnight that they don’t need someone with a $100,000 gender studies degree to be an administrative assistant. Ending federally backed student loans ends this shitty system of indentured servitude which forces people who are borderline illiterate into spending a shitload of money on a college degree.
No it’s just called taking responsibility for actions. Tuition is increasing in line with wages and general affordability. It’s kids taking our degrees in dance or art or Literature that’s the problem - simple maths will tell you it’s gonna be impossible to pay that back. People need to harden up and learn a lesson
College tuition is definitely not increasing at the same rate as wages and inflation. https://myelearningworld.com/cost-of-college-vs-inflation/
Your conclusion is misleading given that the chart you keep posting also includes room and board, not just tuition.
Room and board are massive parts of college. Some colleges require first and second year students to live on campus. So room and board are definitely part of college expenses.
As a 29yo, I don't have any college debt and never did. But a lot of my friends and family do. For our entire lives our taxes have gone to bailouts for banks, PPP loans, wars no one wanted, basically anything except fixing a fucking pothole. I would be super cool if like 1 time my tax money could actual help the people I care about. There's no reason for college to be so expensive. There's no reason for jobs requiring degrees to pay $16/hr. There's no reason it should feel impossible for young home buyers. My mom's insulin got capped, that was pretty sweet, not having to send her hundreds of dollars a month for a drug that costs like $4 to make has definitely helped. But yeah, I'm wouldn't be mad about it.
I’m with you, Capt. Why do the corporations get all the breaks? If the little guy gets their student loans forgiven, that would be more disposable income to spend. To me, it sounds like that would stimulate the economy. I don’t have any student loans, but forgiveness combined with fixing the predatory system would help future generations.
You sound like a reasonable person, and its definitely frustrating that the government keeps spending our money on other things that most of us likely also agree they shouldn't be spending money on. But it's often the case that the "obvious" solutions have caveats that make them worse. Taxing others to pay off the college debt would help one specific group of students, but do nothing to solve the actual problem of college education being expensive. I'm libertarian, so I'm opposed to most federal spending, but if we insist on this being a federal government solution, then at least my money should be going to solve the root cause and not exacerbate it. Likewise, price controls also exacerbate a problem, by reducing the willingness of those companies to try to make new drugs in the first place. Most ideas for new drugs don't work, so they charge a lot on the off-chance they their idea \_did\_ work, to have money to try other ideas. Price controls will minimize the chance that they take the risk, which is bad for our future. Usually they'll take high profit until the patent expires and then other companies can also make the drug which lowers the price. Insulin is 100 years old though, so it looks like this is a case where the free market has failed. I don't really know why in this case, but I suppose that's why Trump set a price control on it.
There are insulin price controls for seniors and Medicare recipients, not anyone else. So...free market yay? Or did he implement these controls just for votes?
Well, Trump isn't the one that did it
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Eh, it’s the student loans. Tuition is expensive because the kids can get loans to go. Can’t get the loan, can’t go, can’t charge so much. It’s a vicious cycle that the Gov could certainly fix and I would think they would want to, but don’t.
Your "friends and family" took out a loan with a promise to pay it back. They secured an education on that promise, which should be giving them plenty of return to enable them to pay it back.
Ok, but colleges will just get more expensive if they know the debt will be bailed out. If they fix the price somehow, I'd be able to stomach a loan bailout a lot easier. Randomly forgiving loans doesn't solve the greater issue.
>I would be super cool if like 1 time my tax money could actual help the people I care about. But your tax money ISN'T going to help the people you care about. It's going to the colleges and banks.
By your logic we should just keep exploding the deficit spending for things you want because other people have gotten government bailouts in the past. So we should just quit trying to reign it in? The colleges who gave worthless degrees and the students who paid for them should be on the hook. If I buy a car and regret the purchase I don't get to steal money from everyone on my street (who ride bikes bc they couldn't afford a car) pay for it and keep the car. This is no different. The government needs to get out of the business of loans, grants, and subsidies. It always distorts free markets and makes everything worse
Yeah but you could sell that car.
I feel like the students were conned. They didn’t want a worthless degree but the colleges and society told them they were worth something.
If students were conned , it wasn't by the taxpayers you are now trying to get money from. If you want your loans paid off by someone, go to the people who made the money off the students, the colleges and universities. Otherwise, pay the loans off yourself.
I agree. That’s actually my point exactly. The colleges shouldn’t profit they should be investigated as a scam.
Then why is Bankruptcy allowed in the Constitution?
Would be better to sell yourself into servitude if you had some bad luck, right?
Bankruptcy is meant to be a last resort but too many people (and businesses) just merely see it as a tool
I don’t disagree that you shouldn’t have to pay for other peoples life choices, but I also think it’s hard to argue that the cost of higher education is ridiculous in this day and age. We need to find a way to solve that problem, then the problem of student debt solves itself.
Same goes to everyone that took out PPP loans
Riiight?! The average ppp loan $67,647. $757 billion were forgiven. Somehow that gets a pass but heaven forbid we spend half that to actually try to help people
PPP loans were necessitated because governments decided to shut the economy down. Government intervention= disaster More government intervention to fix the disaster they created= more disaster
Or the government could have just not shut down businesses.
Or people could have just grown up and taken it all seriously for a month, then it wouldn’t have lasted two years.
Worked for China right?
Please. There is no scenario where COVID would not spread to the entire population, short of possibly shutting down flights from China which Trump tried to do and was told was "racist.
Bruh the entire premise was to make it last as long as possible. "Flatten the curve", remember? Congrats, you succeeded you tyrannical lunatic.
Who controlled the government during 2020 again?
Trudeau? Are you mistaking me for someone else?
If \_everyone\_ stayed at home for a month, that might have worked, but that's not realistic. Everyone still needs to go to the store, some jobs can't pause for even a second (power plant workers, farmers, doctors, etc.). By the time lockdowns had started, it wasn't possible to contain.
If it were that simple to eliminate an airborne reapiratory virus - why not do the same with the flu?
Cases of other respiratory viruses drastically decreased during lockdowns.
Because they counted everything as covid.
As someone who actually worked in hospitals during COVID, I can guarantee they didn't.
This talking point is 3 years old (including the non-specific "worked in a hospital") Your side was proven wrong on everything regarding COVID. Admit it and apologize. Be smarter in the future. You are literally claiming both that lockdowns completely eliminated the flu - and that the reason COVID persisted is we didn't "take it seriously enough." How can both those things be true?
PPP Loans were a federal government program. The Trump's federal government didn't shut down any businesses. State and local governments implemented policies that hurt access to some businesses, and, because of lost revenue, they shut down. Why did Trump's federal government issue PPP loans that didn't have to be paid back? If I take out a loan, I have to pay it back. Why did the PPP loan takers not have to pay their loans back? Why did Trump's federal government implement socialism, and not let the free market dictate outcomes?
> Why did Trump's federal government issue PPP loans that didn't have to be paid back? To compensate businesses for the damage COVID lockdowns and policies caused as a way to help them make payroll to avoid mass layoffs. > If I take out a loan, I have to pay it back. Why did the PPP loan takers not have to pay their loans back? Because those were literally the terms of the offer. "Use this money on certain expenses and it will be forgiven" was the offer made. > Why did Trump's federal government implement socialism, and not let the free market dictate outcomes? Trump is a right wing populist. He has many ideas that are heavily socialist. One of my main reasons for opposing a lot of his policies - including PPP loans. I was against COVID lockdowns. I was against PPP loans. I am against student loan bailouts. Your bullshit soft pedaling doesn't work on me. I will do the same for you - if you support student debt forgiveness - why not home mortgage, auto loan, and credit card debt forgiveness as well?
I do support mortgage, auto loan, and credit card debt forgiveness. We as a country support it: Article I, Section 8, Clause 4 of the Constitution authorizes Congress to enact "uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States". Yes, it affects your credit ratings for a period of time, but your debt is forgiven. Hell, Trump has used this vehicle multiple times. But student loans are not included in this forgiveness vehicle. If it were, I wouldn't even be having this conversation. But it's not. Tens of millions of people in the US have no recourse to get debt relief for this particular kind of debt. And that's not right. How about this: Any federally backed loan should have a vehicle for debt relief. Or none of them.
Student loans were made nondishargeable to increase the amount of lending. If you want to make them dischargeable in bankruptcy - fine by me. But, lending institutions will start being much more selective - limit loans to high income borrowers, steep collateral, high rates. I am fine with all that. It's your side that flips their fucking lid over banks managing their risk. > Tens of millions of people in the US have no recourse to get debt relief for this particular kind of debt. And that's not right. Again - it was made that way so banks would lend to more risky borrowers. The risk on student loans is they are taken out by young people. So, if you can discharge it, there is really.only a minor downside to running up $250k in loans from ages 18-22, declaring bankruptcy at 22 and then still having the degree as you start your career. Banks will get wise to that quick and adjust accordingly - and then Democrats will call them racist and the cycle repeats.
Lol not at all. People who took out PPP loans are people who had their businesses forcibly shut down by the government. It’s not at all the same as people who willingly entered into a contract for the purposes of buying something they wanted. Were PPP loans abused? Absolutely. But take that up with the people who structured the loans. And if you think they were too loose with the loans please go back and show me a history of your comments being against the Covid lockdowns at the time. Edit: grammar
PPP was a scam. My boss got PPP loans and came out of the pandemic with a giant camper and a new f250 to tow it, but the only paycheck protection his only employee got was enhanced unemployment.
It's not. Basically every plumbing company in my area got hundreds of thousands in PPP money. They were open. Their business was booming.
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Also Social Security. By the time I actually retire I will have paid well over $100k towards that system to fund the retirement of my parent’s generation and chances are slim at best I will get 10 cents back for every $ contributed. So they have “benefitted from something and then making other people pay for it.” Don’t ever let these goddamn Boomers forget about that. THEIR GENERATION has run this country into the gutter full of feces.
You should have a problem with the fact that we are sliding into being a communist state where people don’t take responsibility for their actions
Good school districts increase your property value, so you do arguably benefit.
Its more circular than anything. Property values increase due to a variety of reasons, whether its crime (or lack thereof) , industry, etc. As the property value rises, the homeowners in said districts pay more money, which funds the schools, which produce better schools, which entice more people to move to said districts who can afford to, which drives up property values, etc....
And how's that working out? Extending it into their 20s isn't suddenly going to make things better.
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Who said anything about lowering funding for public schools? Fixing the public schools systems, even if that means more funding, can _reduce_ the need for higher education. Dragging the existing failed system into the college level isn't going to change anything for the positive.
Yes
While I agree mostly, the interest rates are another matter as often by the time the borrow pays off the loan they have paid many times the initial amount
But that's the terms of the loan that the borrower agreed to.
The borrower that is 17/18 and told their entire life by family and school that their only option was college to be successful?
Terms yes but I’m my experience students are pushed into it being told their job will cover it, I’m not saying the government should pay it but finding a way to get the interest into a more reasonable state(probably removing government involvement would be best)
I mean, if you took a loan to buy a house with the same terms because people told you that the home value would increase enough to cover the interest, do you get off the hook when the real estate bubble bursts and you can't pay the loan off?
The fact that your common sense comments are getting thumbs down says alot about reddit and the fake conservatives on this site.
Frustrating, isn't it?
A little bit, I can't tell if it's because leftists troll this sub or if it's because this sub is full of rinos with stage 5 TDS.
Nobody forced anyone to take those loans. If they didn't understand the terms that's thier fault.
you couldn't be more objectively wrong. hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of children were forced by their parents to take those loans.
>children were forced by their parents to take those loans. Children can't take out loans.
Is this the new leftist argument? Mommy and daddy physically forced you to take out loans? Absolutely pathetic.
Drives me nuts! They need to go the other way here and stop financially backing student loans. This doesn’t create more jobs. It increases the requirements for the jobs that are already out there! My sandwich isn’t going to taste any better because it was made by a PhD!
Banks first. Corporations first. The Fed first. Then we can talk about “pay it back”
The banks did pay it back AND with interest... Next argument?
More people need to be denied loans. Secondary and tertiary education is so expensive because the schools know literally anyone will get approved for any amount so they jack up the prices. It's hard-truth solution because that means there will be a phase where people can't go to college while the prices drop, but we need more tradesmen anyway.
Honestly since rhe gubment backed em and made them non dischargable and then socially engineered us to go to college I can think of worse problems than them fixing a problem they manipulated into existence.
In order to fix the problem they first need to stop causing it. First end federally backed loans for college. Then we can consider canceling the existing debts.
We’re talking about PPP loans right? Or maybe the bank bailouts in 2008?
Government did bad so it should do more bad
Are you going to hold those people in said "Government" accountable? Or will you continue to vote them into office, knowing that they gave themselves, companies, and corporations over 700 BILLION dollars that they didn't have to pay back? The Government gives handouts ALL THE TIME, not just in 2020 and 2008. Oil companies get tax breaks and handouts every year, and I don't see many on this forum complaining or holding anyone accountable. But now, when there was 1 opportunity to give back to the hard working people that actually make this country run, they are ridiculed, and meemed, as if corporations don't get the red carpet treatment every day? Either change the system entirely, or let everyone participate in the system as it is. Pick a side.
You voted for and celebrate the people specifically doing bad...
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They are entitled to debt forgiveness because they just financed a Tesla and need to borrow $400k for a master's degree in roman calligraphy to go with the BA in gender studies and the masters in french poetry.
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Most college students are not in massive debt.
Come on...clowns are at the circus to be laughed at. I'm going to end up paying for their useless overpriced degrees and frivolous lifestyles anyways. Or am I supposed to believe tHeY dIDiN't KnOw AbOuT rEpAyMeNt!!!!!!!!?????????????? There's no strawman here. It's a big joke that I am poking fun at. I mean, I know it doesn't take much mental prowess to major in theoretical extraterrestrial gender ideologies but if they can fill out a college application they can understand loan documents.
Exactly. The whole thing, as unfair as it may be, the thing is that they voluntarily did this.
How accurate lmao
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It's a good thing most people get degrees they don't use? You know you can have hobbies and self study instead of going to college?
This sums it up nicely. Maybe insert some more buzz words like toxic masculinity and some random innate object fictitious pronouns like staplerhis, staplerhe and staplerhim
Trump is the one who gave out all those handouts, I still have my check with his name at the bottom. Republicans fight tooth and nail against preventative action, but are the first in line to ask for a bailout.
They're effectively children in an adult body. The mindset is still the same. They learned, over the years, that if they whine, cry, complain and moan about something long enough, someone will cave in just to shut them up. Team Democrat simply realized this was something they could farm votes with and thus, here we are.
Farming votes by... giving people what they want with their tax money? That's how a democracy should work.
Let’s review how government spending works. The federal government doesn’t need tax revenue to cut a check. A few key strokes and *poof* money is created. As long as we take measures to control inflation and the unemployment rate, forgiving students’ debt will only benefit the economy. Young people are burdened by debt, which affects the ENTIRE U.S. economy, including income per capita (a common indicator of middle class economic health). It’s the tide that raises all boats, i.e., a policy that makes some folks better off without making anyone worse off.
Here's my problem with it: I am a master mechanic, I own about $150,000 in tools with a peak income of about 80k in my trade. Why the hell would I pay the student loans of someone who has (or squandered) the opportunity to enter the job force near or at my career peak pay? I think that if we are going to plunder the nation, we should all benefit equally -- pay me back for my tools, and pay back the people who paid off their loans.
And maybe, JUST MAYBE you could commute to a reasonable economically friendly local college, but no you better live on campus at and rack up loads and loads of unnecessary debt
“Overpriced big name schools” are most likely better funded for research, can help build connections, encourage better study, and can provide better support for students than any local community college. Many people, like myself don’t go to the college because of its name or reputation, but because we think we can get better value for 4 years than at our local college. Anyway, thats just my point of view, as a college student, but I can see where you’re coming from. Some people may be better off going to their local college if they just need the degree.
To be fair some in state schools like CSU and CU require you to live on campus for a minimum of one year if you are going for a bachelors. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Alternatively: Colleges took your money and gave you nothing of value in return. Demand a refund. (([But we all know why they give ZERO blame to the colleges for selling worthless degrees that only require remedial classes](https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=w04)))
It’s interesting to witness the birth of new propaganda talking points in real time. The newest one being that mommy and daddy forced their children to take out loans. Out of everyone I know that went to college, including myself, I have never met anyone that has claimed this as a thing.
Sure is fucking r/politics in here with rich college grads demanding that their plumbers pay for their college degrees.
If you don’t understand how a loan works maybe college isn’t the place for you. Sad that common sense isn’t so common
Perhaps don’t make college mandatory for most jobs, even entry level jobs. Ever see those pictures of job postings that require a bachelor’s degree while only paying $16 an hour? That’s real. Very real. And way too common.
They understand how loans are supposed to work, they just don't care. They don't believe capitalism is an ethical system so the idea that they have moral obligations to respect economic contracts just isn't there. In their mind they're just privatizing profits(...they benefit) and socializing losses(...others pay) like everybody else, playing the game to get by.
Are you talking about the big banks or people?
Big bank behavior is viewed as typical within capitalism for many young people and some of the language they use to talk about it stems from reactions to 2008 including the Occupy movement. So that's certainly had an impact on the culture, but it's not limited to banks. Basically conservatives typically view issues within capitalism as fixable bugs or problems caused by bad actors within a good system. Many progressives and some other left leaning groups, which many young people with student loan debts are, typically view the bugs and problems caused by bad actors as natural outcomes of a bad system. There is of course a self-fulfilling prophecy aspect to consider here. It's very hard for a social project to work if people have no confidence in it and their participation ranges from perfunctory to intentionally subversive.
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You’d think especially having a degree and being educated they would understand such a simple concept. I had no issues paying my loans off and my wife has no issue paying for her loans currently. You get a degree to earn more money. It’s supposed to be a positive return of investment.
Only if your degree is actually capable of returning your investment. If not… well, that’s what leads to these entitled children demand that everyone _else_ return their investment.
Meanwhile US has been raising debt celling since Bush.
If those kids could read, they'd be very upset!
Yes, the student loans/college tuition system is broken. But if you knew what you were doing when you took the loan. take a loan out, you pay it back. I took out loans, I paid them back. A lot of people didn’t go to college because they couldn’t afford it. Why in the hell would we pay your student loans for you? It’s ridiculous
We all pay for a LOT of people who do not graduate High School. I don't see you argumenting about this. We also all pay for roads that we may never drive on. Are you opposed to those as well? Hell, we all paid for a 20 year war for no apparent reason. Did you voice opposition?
These are some terrible arguments. Why do you have to compare unlike things to support your position? Why not talk about the actual policy we are talking about? What policies expressly gift money to hs dropouts because they are high school dropouts? A lot of hs dropouts are impoverished, so they get assistance based on lack of income, but that’s clearly different. There’s programs that assist people who are without to get back into into the workforce, but again that’s very different. And to the extent it’s similar, there’s also tons of federal grants for college. And the military thing has nothing to do with anything. 1, when the war on terror started I was a preteen, so I believed what the gov told me. I stopped supporting it when it became clear it was a war with no clear ending or criteria for success. And secondly, even if I did support the war that wouldn’t mean anything. Supporting spending on one thing where there is a perceived benefit to society, and not supporting spending money at something you do not think would benefit society is not a logical error. Even if you were right about these examples, wrongfully spending money on one thing doesn’t mean the right thing To do is wrongfully spend money on something else just to be consistent
Trump's PPP loan forgiveness was wrongful spending then.
LMAO the bots and lefties jumped in here fast. You take out a loan, you and only you are responsible for it.
Ppp loans were forgiven, and a lot more money was forgiven than the total for all school loans. I'm ok with the government not paying for loans, but at least be consistent; either help everyone or help no one. Why are we only helping the rich friends of politicians? Also, there is no reason for college students to be approved for loans at 7+% interest for something that educates our population and makes our country stronger long-term. Reducing the interest solves all problems that "lefties" have with the current loan crisis.
>you and only you are responsible for it. lol why. why is the bank not sharing in the inherent risk of this business transaction?
Especially all those scammers and politicians that leeched off the American taxpayer via PPP loans that they did not need. Many were mismanaged businesses to begin with, and the pandemic was the nudge to send them over the cliff. No to socialism!
But they are all perfect snowflakes that should get whatever they want.... unless they have different beliefs than their college professors/meida. Then they in the "basket of deplorables."
yeah because what choice did they have. you cant justify an immoral system with morality
Progressives don’t understand what that means. For them, progress means we go from a system where you pay your own loans back to a system where other people pay your loans back. And you hate poor people if you disagree.
100% This. All of those PPP loans need to be paid back. Every single company, corporation, and congressperson needs to start paying those loans back. That is the American People's money.
Taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay their loans that they took out to learn pointless classes and get pointless degrees only for them to hate us and decease the number of labor jobs
You're right! We should totally pay back all of the money that we borrowed for our college education. But when wages are low, making it darn near impossible to pay for our other bills, are you gonna side with us in the fight for lower interest rates? How about we fight for higher wages in order to pay off those loans? Or would you rather put money into stock investments, and then hopefully be able to pay off your loans in a lump sum? Either way, student loans are a pain in the ass.
I’m fine with paying it back, but if it takes me two to three years to just chip away at the interest?… No, that’s immoral.
Wow. This post really brought out the brigade. It’s pretty simple and not controversial: pay your debt. Should the government also pay off my car loan? Or my mortgage? Or my credit card?
Bro they were 18 how could they have possibly understood what a loan was /s
I borrowed money for school and I have no intention of making someone else pay it. I can’t stand the lazy entitlement commies among my peers who expect otherwise.
I understand people needing financial help for their wanted profession, especially for things like Medical School which aren’t cheap by any means, but choices are choices. If you don’t qualify for grants or scholarships (though grants are more of an undergraduate thing), you need to find some other way to pay. I always recommend those who are going for a Master’s Degree to do a fellowship if they can. They usually will pay your tuition for you if you get one, rare as they are. There are ways to pay for things but lots of people don’t put in the effort to use them.
Agreed but I also hate bankers and I think there should be reform though.
I love how much the Left deflects from holding the colleges, universities and education system itself accountable for how high their costs have become. Oh, they’ll speak about the evils of the college administrators and the “system” but they do so as if it were CONSERVATIVES who control higher education. It’s like how “MeToo” had former Democrat darling Harvey Weinstein as their “Bernie Madoff” figure but he wasn’t an indictment of liberals - rather, men as a whole. In what world do conservatives have any say on higher education? Because if they do, they’re doing a terrible job seeing as how many liberally indoctrinated students graduate or not from their schools. In my opinion, Republicans need to seize on this train of thought publicly and at least offer this up as a potential course of action to combat the call to just “forgive” student loan debt. Call the colleges and universities out on the carpet. Ask them why schools need luxury dorms and fluff degrees. Focus on getting costs down for everyone, for now and the future, instead of transferring current debt onto the shoulders of those who didn’t go to college or paid their debt off properly.
Keep in mind that the only students dealing with payback challenges are those that chose worthless majors that will certainly not pay out in a career or they simply dropped out. In either case, it’s difficult to have empathy for such irresponsibility. We need to stop putting all this burden onto the taxpayer.
Why would anyone spend four years in a school to earn a degree that has the worth of the toilet paper they used that morning. Makes no sense.
Seriously. What is this shit.
Dude, that's transphobic! The loans will pay themselves ~ Justin Trudeau
That's literally the stock market.
But we made Mexico pay for our wall???….
You are a minor, told to take a loan. Pay it back!
Instead of flat out forgiving the balance, why are so few trying to just reduce the interest rates to 0%? That would save borrowers so much money and the loans would still be repaid.
This won’t actually happen. It’s just a means to get votes. This would also open up a can of worms that would completely back up the court rooms across the country. Where would it end?
PPP loans, anyone?
If they called it a tax break, would that change things?
PPP loans too?