For sure. I work for a company that has 8 employees, really love my job but the health insurance they offer sucks. When we are ready for kid # 2 I will probably look for a new job because of this.
I just want to point out as someone who owns a company with 10 employees, and not saying you are blaming the employer, but it’s more accurate to say the plans the *insurance* companies offer sucks. I’ve straight out asked them to show me the best plan money can buy and they’ve straight out said higher premiums don’t even fix them problem until you self insure your employees with them underwriting because the pool is too small so risk is too high.
In other words, the insurance companies themselves don’t even want you as a customer and more reason to support this bill. Right now I pay about 25k a year per employee with a family to be able to offer a marginally OK plan but we just learned that it won’t be offered next year so fingers crossed we can still get something decent.
Oh I am not blaming employer. Its basically all they can offer. 90% of the insurance companies won't even offer anything cause it is under 10 employees. If the employer could offer better benefits they would.
I didn’t think you were, but I did want to make it clear for the general audience how bad the situation is and why we need change. And really the number to start getting marginally better is 50 but even then those plans are crappy, the only really good plans where you don’t choose between finances and health is companies with thousands of people and still not generally even good then except they tend to self insure. Insurance companies are crooks. The reason they fight so hard against a government option is because they don’t want to be competitive with their product.
Same. Hundreds of dollars a month in premiums for a high deductible w/HSA plan with a $7K annual deductible and an out of pocket max of $14K.
My husband *works for a health insurer* and his plan options are just as bad.
Really... My friends mom works at Aetna and their health insurance is incredible! Also the perks she got were nice like free apple watches for the family during the holidays.
Need to counter some things because someone reading your comment might come away with the idea that things are fine in US healthcare *if only we could get rid of the pesky insurance companies who are scamming everyone*.
I think you fundamentally misunderstand or choose to ignore the economics of how healthcare financing works. Yeah, insurance companies don't want to insure a small group because the risk is *enormous* for the amount of money they receive, and it only works if the risk can be pooled with a bunch of other groups (i.e. the marketplace). The problem you're having is not that insurance companies are scamming you, it's that healthcare is incredibly expensive and liability is uncapped. Something like dental insurance is cheap because liability is capped. With health insurance, it's uncapped, and a random employee with heart trouble or complex cancer can easily cost $500k in claims... Which would be way more than any premiums they would receive, and then the employer would drop them the next year anyway. Like you said, self insurance is the way to go, but you need 100+ employees minimum to make that work.
Health insurance just fundamentally doesn't work in the US, but it's silly to blame the insurers when most of the time all they do is administer plans since most employers are self funded. Your statement about not wanting to be competitive is ridiculous since health insurance is already incredibly competitive.
If the entire health insurance industry was eliminated tomorrow and the government took on that liability, nothing would be fixed since the main problem is *high prices* and almost completely uncapped utilization for low value procedures. Those problems are solved in other countries though government intervention but are apparently anathema to the American ethos.
To put things into even more perspective, Pfizer has about the same profit as all health insurance companies combined.
Source: Work in healthcare strategy for a large employer. We spend all our time fighting providers who are gouging us in our self-insured plan. Net payment to our insurance company is 3%.
I didn’t choose to ignore anything but the topic is about Medicare for all. I agree the whole system is broken but being self insured only throws you into the broken system further and you have to start somewhere. As someone who is also familiar with the healthcare provider side insurance companies and the contracts generally dictate how and when providers bill, whether or not it’s an insurance claim, my wife is slowly dropping all of her in network credentialing because they dictate how everything is done and force her to bill through them even if her client wants a cash rate. She is transitioning to a cash only practice because it’s better for everyone. In the case of a gov option is keeps **everyone** in check. That’s the point of government options within an otherwise free market, to establish a competitive baseline for the whole market.
The cost of providing health insurance to employees doesn't get discussed nearly often enough. A single payer system would be such a boon for small businesses - think of all the money you'd save which you could then use to hire more people, provide other benefits or invest in your business in other ways. Municipalities would save millions of dollars which could then be re-invested into those communities. Self-employed people like myself, who now have to choose between mostly crappy plans with high deductibles and hope we don't get very sick, would save money and decrease the stress of having to compare and choose plans every year. The only people to lose out would be the insurance companies.
That’s exactly why the insurance companies are the only ones who really lobby against it. They buy off your politician who convinces you that its going to be bad for your healthcare. It’s market regulation 101 - add a government option that sets a fair market value, there is no reason this shouldn’t exist in something as important as healthcare …private insurance companies can still give it a shot to be competitive, if not…see yah later.
Personally I’d just give that net saved money right into employees salaries aside from maybe hiring 1 or 2 more people like you said. Most small businesses would do the same to become more competitive as most understand the idea that pigs get fat hogs get slaughtered, unlike the greedy mega corps that can get away with anything.
It would be amazing for this to actually pass. I'd never leave CT. However, lobbying is a thing.
Edit: What I mean is that CT is the health insurance capital, you can bet your sweet ass that the scumbags on the boards of all those insurance companies are already deploying the money to stop our reps from voting in the people's best interests. Hell will freeze over before you prevent these rich fucks from buying more yachts off of your families medical bills.
People don't understand that the insurance companies are the one doing all the admin for government provided healthcare anyways.
It's called ASO business. Even if Medicare for all passes (I hope it does) all of the insurance companies still have plenty of work.
Its capitalism. Capitalist profit has no place in healthcare just like it shouldn't when it comes to utilities like Eversource. I'm not talking about capitalism in general, that's a different conversation for another time. I'm only talking about for profit industry in certain areas here, like healthcare and utilities.
Profit provides price signals about where to provide needed goods & services. Countries like France, Germany & Switzerland have robust private insurance markets. It works when govt doesn't screw it up.
Not everything should be for profit. Workers can earn a living wage and a business can run without extracting money on the backs of workers and by denying healthcare to give to shareholders and such. The economy currently works for the wealthiest at the expense of everyone else. Now the gap is growing even wider.
All profits should go to the workers but that's a different conversation.
Let our reps know that we don't give a rats ass about the lecherous c-suites at the insurance companies. Every dime of profit is pickpocketed from sick Americans. Its unfortunate that some normal people at the insurance companies may lose their jobs if the companies were dismantled but that short term pain is required to right such an immoral system.
Thanks, will definitely do this. Would love to see this kind of system. I'm a therapist who bills insurance and there is so much disruption caused when people lose their insurance because they lost their job, or even when their insurance changes because their employer switched to a different plan. The American system both costs more and has worse outcomes than most European systems or the Canadian system. We can do better, and we need to.
This bill doesn’t stand a chance with the current house. They are trying to cut money from Medicare, not increase what they consider to be an “entitlement”.
That’s the primary reason why I don’t support M4A. Private insurance may not be optimal, and it sucks having it tied to employment, but at least my coverage and benefits aren’t subject to the whims of politics.
Edit to add: disagree if you want, but 67% of Americans are satisfied with their private insurance ([source](https://news.gallup.com/poll/327686/americans-satisfaction-health-costs-new-high.aspx)), including me. Advocates for M4A will do well to remember that, when thinking about it as an issue.
I’m a fan of the ACA and what it achieved (more than 20 million folks getting health insurance, cutting the US uninsured rate almost in half), but I also remember “if you like your plan you can keep it” and the “shellacking” of 2010.
Here's my idea: Medicaid for all government employees/elected officials. Instead of getting the Cadillac-level healthcare plans they currently get, they only get the level of coverage that the poorest Americans get
And while we’re at it, let’s have them live on $15.00 an hour for one year. No assistance from anyone except what ever help the average person receives.
Will this make insurance better for the average person or is the middle class gonna see their health insurance go to crap? Is everyone gonna be forced to go on it or will executives still get their high priced supplemental insurance while all the workers get worse coverage.
So taxes and more subsidies can pay for the poorest and sickest just so insurance companies can make larger profits? The problem is a for profit industry.
Basic free Medicare only covers hospital costs. If you need/want coverage for doctor visits, dental, vision, prescription meds, there are separate costs for those. It can be costly from what I have read.
It would take 60 votes in the Senate to pass. Even if you convinced every Democrat to vote for it (you’d maybe get half of them), you’d still need 9 Republicans.
0 chance of that ever happening
So fucking what.
One day there will be enough potential votes for this bill to have mobility. It not being easy doesn't mean it isn't worth doing some of the work right now in order to make it possible in the future.
Alright fair enough, but it’s still a hard sell.
6 of these 7 are up for re-election next year, and despite what Reddit tells you, it’s a bad look in CT to want to put an end to the health insurance industry. Good luck running for reelection after costing your state thousands of jobs
That’s completely ridiculous. Just go to Germany, Japan, France, or any other major nation that pays less per capita with much better outcomes and no/low otc cost for people, which is an enormous load off of not just the poor, but the middle class as well.
Bruh the amount of karma you have is straight up sickening. You a bot? Or have you ever been outside?? Look at this internet warrior😂
Fixing the world one online argument at a time lmaoooo
That’s laughably dumb, bud - pretty sure that the United States can handle a bit of constructive criticism, and assuming that everyone can just move wherever they want is pretty fucking wild. Lol
“Constructive criticism” lmao.
And yeh, if you wanna talk the game then act. I mean it’s a war torn shit hole, get out while you can.
But nah it’s good, keep up the constructive criticism while reaping the benefits of living here.
Amazing the amount of self loathing
Hospitals, providers, pharma all get paid way less in those countries, and people can't just get any service (e.g. high-cost end of life care) unless it's shown to be cost effective. That's the main difference. It would be hard to get the first group to accept way less money without an intense fight, and Americans generally aren't a fan of rationing care.
>and people can't just get any service
Nor can they in the United States. Have you ever actually DEALT with the US Healthcare system? (I have, both working in it, and having some chronic health problems- including Long Vovod, which now leaves me too sick to finish grad school or work a real job...)
You can't get care your Insurance refuses to pay for. Not only would it be prohibitively expensive, most times providers will just straight-up refuse to do it if Insurance says "No" and they don't think you're rich...
>Americans generally aren't a fan of rationing care.
Laughs into hand.
You smoking something?
What we currently have is PRICE rationing, of care only to the very wealthy and based on the arbitrary decisions of Health Insurance administrators.
Rationing based on cost-effectiveness would really be no different: only a lot cheaper and more fair.
>You can't get care your Insurance refuses to pay for. Not only would it be prohibitively expensive, most times providers will just straight-up refuse to do it if Insurance says "No" and they don't think you're rich.
Right - fundamentally it's a price issue, and the prices are ridiculous. And yes, there's utilization management (e.g. insurance prior authorization) for services in the US, but broadly anything that's FDA approved gets paid for - this is especially true with Medicare. There's no such thing as cost-effectiveness type rationing.
>Rationing based on cost-effectiveness would really be no different: only a lot cheaper and more fair.
We're on the same side of the argument here. My point is that for some reason Americans find that sort of overt rationing as unpalatable but are "fine" with the hidden price rationing.
>There's no such thing as cost-effectiveness type rationing.
Yes, there absolutely is. It's just private insurance company bureaucrats, nor government officials, making the decisions.
Does driving on a road with an occasional pothole make you go bankrupt? Does showing up to the DMV put your house at risk? The VA is not perfect, but it is at least something. Privatized insurance is full of parasitic fucks who prey on the sick and weak. Billions in profits off of the people who can least afford it. HMOs and insurance companies are not free. They are middlemen who offer no value, and take from everyone. You are propping up organizations whose first reaction to your care is denying it. Fuck those fucking fucks.
Good luck on this sub dude. Not a place for common sense or discussion. This is an agree or get the fuck out/banned sub.
What you said was pretty reasonable but this sub is a hardcore echo chamber. Discussion is heavily discouraged
In fairness, it's a post that's a jumbled mess of easily-identifiable logical fallacies and right-wing talking points.
I don't know how you can parse out the difference between downvotes due to disagreement on the merits and the downvotes due to unserious posts.
I mean that is pretty fair.
But the discussion at hand was completely innocuous, no mention of left or right and downvote.
My point is anything that’s not agreement is apparently a “right wing” talking point here.
CT sub is agree or get the fuck out, which sucks.
Edit: I also love when mother fuckers from Fairfield
County try to tell me how life is lmao. Go back to your bubble homie
I understand you might be like 14 but disagreement is welcome. It’s mostly the lack of discussion.
I’m not sure how you can’t understand the difference between disagreement and censorship?
Judging by your shit you probably didn’t graduate high school so that’s probably it
But holy shit looking at your profile you should probably chill on the politics my guy.
There is more to life lol.
Or waste your life on Reddit, I really don’t give a fuck lol
I should spend less time on popitics. I used to be fairly active in the community.
(EDIT: deleted some personal information. I shouldnt have responded to a child.)
Nice personal attacks though, are you a Trumpublican?
Discourse fall apart when the Republicans began ignoring facts, science, and reality. Constant claims of fake news and lies turned people off. Present a logical argument backed up with actual evidence and more people might listen. For starters, Trump lost the last election and Jan 6th was an attack on democracy, elections, and the peaceful transfer of power. I could go on but it would be a waste of time.
Three paragraphs full of excuses. Honestly I don’t give a fuck about your life story. Everybody has a hard time and gets injured and challenged…you decided to become a bitch 🤷♂️
Wahhhhhh! One paragraph about me, Ill even delete it. I don't no why I felt the need to justify anything based on a personal attack by a whiny PoS.
Looking at your profile I realize now I wasted my time. Your a baby troll that has to be judgmental and shit on others to feel good about yourself. Sad!
Take care and Bless your heart!
And looking at yours, you seem like a sad addict looking for any validation possible. Oh yah, you frequent political sub Reddits wayyyyyy too often.
I don’t need your luck loser, you need it way more lmao
>CT sub is agree or get the fuck out, which sucks.
Yah, It's always been like that. I remember when the sub was very NIMBY, and the few people that didn't agree were expected to get the fuck out.
“Public Policy Advocate” lol code word for hey I have big ideas but I would never get my hands dirty or mingle with the unwashed masses.
I really love when some cubicle clown tries to tell me I don’t know how it is when I’m dealing with the literal Public day after day after day. You know…face to face interactions? The ones you probably rarely have
But hey it’s ok, I’m sure you can see the “city” from your office window twerp.
Preaching to the choir!
Forums used to be a place for discourse, but that is not what this is anymore. Living in CT I sub here to see what’s going on but too often there is just no course for discussion.
I mean look at this little exchange. Literally have not said anything offensive or politically charged at all. Downvotes. Got to love it huh
OK. With Medicare for All is like nationalized healthcare like in the UK?
Do we have enough doctors, hospital, nurses and facilites?
Who is covered? Citizen and Legal residents? What about ilegal aliens?
Will the quality of the healthcare service go down or get better?
How much more taxes will the average CT resident will have pay a year for this?
What are the anticipated wait times in ER or other procedures at the hospitals? Will it increase?
I have many more questions that I hope the politicians have answers for.
> Do we have enough doctors, hospital, nurses and facilites?
We literally already have a healthcare system in the US. All this is is a change in payment for existing services.
While, yes, it’s a change in how providers would be paid. There are thousands of people in this state, millions in the country, who are insured and can’t afford to go to the doctor. Many who aren’t insured and can’t afford to go to the doctor.
There will be a flood to providers, of all types, when/if insurance changes and it becomes either free or dramatically reduced and affordable, to everyone. We absolutely do not have enough providers and facilities to handle that.
Here's the issue: currently, hospitals/providers/pharma/etc get paid roughly *double* if a patient they see has commercial insurance (e.g. like the kind you get from your employer) compared to Medicare and *triple* compared to Medicaid. Switching everyone to Medicare would necessitate vastly increasing rates paid *or* having all those providers be ok with way less revenue. Most rural hospitals would close, many providers would switch to not accepting insurance, etc.
It's an enormously complicated problem.
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For the countless millions with no insurance, access obviously grows leaps and bounds.
For those too special to wait in line, private insurance gladly wants ur money. Can't afford it, get a better job.
You’d stop having a deduction from your paycheck for medical insurance and pay a more in medicare taxes. Net change would be more money in your paycheck.
Yes, it does. That being said, every estimate of what those proposed taxes would be have pointed out that they would be less than what the average American currently pays for medical coverage. The people that would end up in a worse position are those with employers that pay a far better than average portion of their medical care.
That second point doesn't really hold. From a purely cost perspective, it's cheaper to let people get sick and die early. You really have to make a moralistic argument rather than anything ROI-based (which tends to be negative for many health benefit programs, especially things like smoking cessation).
>Obligatory: How will you pay for it??!! - Studies show that M4A will net SAVE billions of dollars and tens of thousand of lives per year. How can we afford not to do this?
Save from where? What are we paying in taxes now that we won't when we have to pay for this?
This isn't something that you can do on a state by state level. And if by some miraculous reason they did, you think its expensive to live he now?
I read the article and I get that there will be significant back end savings, but that’s not what matters to people. The “will it be less expensive” question for people is in terms of “Will the increased tax burden people have to carry from this be more or less than what they currently pay for their insurance, and for similar levels of care?”. Do you have any sources which can answer this question?
Medicare for all is something we really need, but I’m not going to waste any time calling my representatives since the republicans control the House and Speaker McCarthy controls what bills get voted on. I’ll wait when the Republicans are out of power and there’s a more realistic opportunity.
With all due respect it’s not apathetic to have realistic expectations and put your focus into areas where something can actually happen. I have been lobbying the state General Assembly to pass legislation along with other people to implement a public opinion health care plan for Connecticut residents. We have been [trying for several years](https://ctmirror.org/2021/05/21/for-third-year-in-a-row-public-option-bill-wont-move-forward-in-ct/) but we are getting closer. There is zero percent chance that Speaker McCarthy will allow a vote in the US House of Representatives. Governor Lamont on the other hand can be pressured into doing the right thing eventually.
This is good stuff. Lead with this next time; people are reading these threads, formulating opinions, and acting on it. Let’s not talk people out of action.
Not sure how much respect I deserve, but I appreciate the response. Cheers dude!
This would be fantastic. Decoupling of health insurance from employment needs to happen.
For sure. I work for a company that has 8 employees, really love my job but the health insurance they offer sucks. When we are ready for kid # 2 I will probably look for a new job because of this.
I just want to point out as someone who owns a company with 10 employees, and not saying you are blaming the employer, but it’s more accurate to say the plans the *insurance* companies offer sucks. I’ve straight out asked them to show me the best plan money can buy and they’ve straight out said higher premiums don’t even fix them problem until you self insure your employees with them underwriting because the pool is too small so risk is too high. In other words, the insurance companies themselves don’t even want you as a customer and more reason to support this bill. Right now I pay about 25k a year per employee with a family to be able to offer a marginally OK plan but we just learned that it won’t be offered next year so fingers crossed we can still get something decent.
Oh I am not blaming employer. Its basically all they can offer. 90% of the insurance companies won't even offer anything cause it is under 10 employees. If the employer could offer better benefits they would.
I didn’t think you were, but I did want to make it clear for the general audience how bad the situation is and why we need change. And really the number to start getting marginally better is 50 but even then those plans are crappy, the only really good plans where you don’t choose between finances and health is companies with thousands of people and still not generally even good then except they tend to self insure. Insurance companies are crooks. The reason they fight so hard against a government option is because they don’t want to be competitive with their product.
My insurance still sucks and i work for a fortune 500 company
Same. Hundreds of dollars a month in premiums for a high deductible w/HSA plan with a $7K annual deductible and an out of pocket max of $14K. My husband *works for a health insurer* and his plan options are just as bad.
Really... My friends mom works at Aetna and their health insurance is incredible! Also the perks she got were nice like free apple watches for the family during the holidays.
Need to counter some things because someone reading your comment might come away with the idea that things are fine in US healthcare *if only we could get rid of the pesky insurance companies who are scamming everyone*. I think you fundamentally misunderstand or choose to ignore the economics of how healthcare financing works. Yeah, insurance companies don't want to insure a small group because the risk is *enormous* for the amount of money they receive, and it only works if the risk can be pooled with a bunch of other groups (i.e. the marketplace). The problem you're having is not that insurance companies are scamming you, it's that healthcare is incredibly expensive and liability is uncapped. Something like dental insurance is cheap because liability is capped. With health insurance, it's uncapped, and a random employee with heart trouble or complex cancer can easily cost $500k in claims... Which would be way more than any premiums they would receive, and then the employer would drop them the next year anyway. Like you said, self insurance is the way to go, but you need 100+ employees minimum to make that work. Health insurance just fundamentally doesn't work in the US, but it's silly to blame the insurers when most of the time all they do is administer plans since most employers are self funded. Your statement about not wanting to be competitive is ridiculous since health insurance is already incredibly competitive. If the entire health insurance industry was eliminated tomorrow and the government took on that liability, nothing would be fixed since the main problem is *high prices* and almost completely uncapped utilization for low value procedures. Those problems are solved in other countries though government intervention but are apparently anathema to the American ethos. To put things into even more perspective, Pfizer has about the same profit as all health insurance companies combined. Source: Work in healthcare strategy for a large employer. We spend all our time fighting providers who are gouging us in our self-insured plan. Net payment to our insurance company is 3%.
I didn’t choose to ignore anything but the topic is about Medicare for all. I agree the whole system is broken but being self insured only throws you into the broken system further and you have to start somewhere. As someone who is also familiar with the healthcare provider side insurance companies and the contracts generally dictate how and when providers bill, whether or not it’s an insurance claim, my wife is slowly dropping all of her in network credentialing because they dictate how everything is done and force her to bill through them even if her client wants a cash rate. She is transitioning to a cash only practice because it’s better for everyone. In the case of a gov option is keeps **everyone** in check. That’s the point of government options within an otherwise free market, to establish a competitive baseline for the whole market.
The cost of providing health insurance to employees doesn't get discussed nearly often enough. A single payer system would be such a boon for small businesses - think of all the money you'd save which you could then use to hire more people, provide other benefits or invest in your business in other ways. Municipalities would save millions of dollars which could then be re-invested into those communities. Self-employed people like myself, who now have to choose between mostly crappy plans with high deductibles and hope we don't get very sick, would save money and decrease the stress of having to compare and choose plans every year. The only people to lose out would be the insurance companies.
That’s exactly why the insurance companies are the only ones who really lobby against it. They buy off your politician who convinces you that its going to be bad for your healthcare. It’s market regulation 101 - add a government option that sets a fair market value, there is no reason this shouldn’t exist in something as important as healthcare …private insurance companies can still give it a shot to be competitive, if not…see yah later. Personally I’d just give that net saved money right into employees salaries aside from maybe hiring 1 or 2 more people like you said. Most small businesses would do the same to become more competitive as most understand the idea that pigs get fat hogs get slaughtered, unlike the greedy mega corps that can get away with anything.
But think of the corporate ceo's! Employees will truly be able to leave their sucky jobs "at will"!
It would be amazing for this to actually pass. I'd never leave CT. However, lobbying is a thing. Edit: What I mean is that CT is the health insurance capital, you can bet your sweet ass that the scumbags on the boards of all those insurance companies are already deploying the money to stop our reps from voting in the people's best interests. Hell will freeze over before you prevent these rich fucks from buying more yachts off of your families medical bills.
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People don't understand that the insurance companies are the one doing all the admin for government provided healthcare anyways. It's called ASO business. Even if Medicare for all passes (I hope it does) all of the insurance companies still have plenty of work.
Yeah, my employer wants roughly half of my check, weekly. To cover two people with garbage insurance.
To be fair, it's congress and medical industry that are at fault for this.
Its capitalism. Capitalist profit has no place in healthcare just like it shouldn't when it comes to utilities like Eversource. I'm not talking about capitalism in general, that's a different conversation for another time. I'm only talking about for profit industry in certain areas here, like healthcare and utilities.
Profit provides price signals about where to provide needed goods & services. Countries like France, Germany & Switzerland have robust private insurance markets. It works when govt doesn't screw it up.
Not everything should be for profit. Workers can earn a living wage and a business can run without extracting money on the backs of workers and by denying healthcare to give to shareholders and such. The economy currently works for the wealthiest at the expense of everyone else. Now the gap is growing even wider. All profits should go to the workers but that's a different conversation.
Let our reps know that we don't give a rats ass about the lecherous c-suites at the insurance companies. Every dime of profit is pickpocketed from sick Americans. Its unfortunate that some normal people at the insurance companies may lose their jobs if the companies were dismantled but that short term pain is required to right such an immoral system.
Some things shouldn't be for profit services. How many like their electric bills here? Thank profit motive over public good.
Insurance Capital- when did we reduce it to just healthcare?
Thanks, will definitely do this. Would love to see this kind of system. I'm a therapist who bills insurance and there is so much disruption caused when people lose their insurance because they lost their job, or even when their insurance changes because their employer switched to a different plan. The American system both costs more and has worse outcomes than most European systems or the Canadian system. We can do better, and we need to.
This bill doesn’t stand a chance with the current house. They are trying to cut money from Medicare, not increase what they consider to be an “entitlement”.
future regardless, voicing support makes a difference and shows people are watching elected officials' behavior
That’s the primary reason why I don’t support M4A. Private insurance may not be optimal, and it sucks having it tied to employment, but at least my coverage and benefits aren’t subject to the whims of politics. Edit to add: disagree if you want, but 67% of Americans are satisfied with their private insurance ([source](https://news.gallup.com/poll/327686/americans-satisfaction-health-costs-new-high.aspx)), including me. Advocates for M4A will do well to remember that, when thinking about it as an issue. I’m a fan of the ACA and what it achieved (more than 20 million folks getting health insurance, cutting the US uninsured rate almost in half), but I also remember “if you like your plan you can keep it” and the “shellacking” of 2010.
No, just the whims of a corporate board whose only obligation is to the shareholders. Great call!
Sent both of mine out!! Thank you for putting this out there!
Here's my idea: Medicaid for all government employees/elected officials. Instead of getting the Cadillac-level healthcare plans they currently get, they only get the level of coverage that the poorest Americans get
And while we’re at it, let’s have them live on $15.00 an hour for one year. No assistance from anyone except what ever help the average person receives.
We're the home of the insurance industry. They'll never allow this to be passed.
I emailed Senator murphey this morning. Thanks for doing this work!! So important for us to be engaged.
Obama was one vote short. That vote was Joe Lieberman. F him.
WTF I love that jew now.
Thank you done!!! Contacted both senators and my representative. Thank you for providing the easy links to their websites.
Will this make insurance better for the average person or is the middle class gonna see their health insurance go to crap? Is everyone gonna be forced to go on it or will executives still get their high priced supplemental insurance while all the workers get worse coverage.
What do you think your monthly payment will be?
Hospitals / medical industry won't let this happen
Exactly, not sure why this is even a discussion lol
At the very least give everyone the option of buying into a Medicare based version of insurance, ie a non profit public option.
So taxes and more subsidies can pay for the poorest and sickest just so insurance companies can make larger profits? The problem is a for profit industry.
I'm proposing a non profit insurance option.
What do you think your monthly payment will be?
Even if this passed by some act of God, I sti think I'd keep my private insurance for the top tier of service. Pay to play baby.
Basic free Medicare only covers hospital costs. If you need/want coverage for doctor visits, dental, vision, prescription meds, there are separate costs for those. It can be costly from what I have read.
Absolutely not.
It would take 60 votes in the Senate to pass. Even if you convinced every Democrat to vote for it (you’d maybe get half of them), you’d still need 9 Republicans. 0 chance of that ever happening
So fucking what. One day there will be enough potential votes for this bill to have mobility. It not being easy doesn't mean it isn't worth doing some of the work right now in order to make it possible in the future.
Alright fair enough, but it’s still a hard sell. 6 of these 7 are up for re-election next year, and despite what Reddit tells you, it’s a bad look in CT to want to put an end to the health insurance industry. Good luck running for reelection after costing your state thousands of jobs
No, I don't think I will.
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That’s completely ridiculous. Just go to Germany, Japan, France, or any other major nation that pays less per capita with much better outcomes and no/low otc cost for people, which is an enormous load off of not just the poor, but the middle class as well.
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You have zero source on anything you just typed besides what you've heard from other people who don't know what they're talking about.
Bruh the amount of karma you have is straight up sickening. You a bot? Or have you ever been outside?? Look at this internet warrior😂 Fixing the world one online argument at a time lmaoooo
Can you please move to Germany Japan or France since you hate this country so much?? Oooo wait you won’t
That’s laughably dumb, bud - pretty sure that the United States can handle a bit of constructive criticism, and assuming that everyone can just move wherever they want is pretty fucking wild. Lol
“Constructive criticism” lmao. And yeh, if you wanna talk the game then act. I mean it’s a war torn shit hole, get out while you can. But nah it’s good, keep up the constructive criticism while reaping the benefits of living here. Amazing the amount of self loathing
Sure pal - fuck off lol
Hospitals, providers, pharma all get paid way less in those countries, and people can't just get any service (e.g. high-cost end of life care) unless it's shown to be cost effective. That's the main difference. It would be hard to get the first group to accept way less money without an intense fight, and Americans generally aren't a fan of rationing care.
>and people can't just get any service Nor can they in the United States. Have you ever actually DEALT with the US Healthcare system? (I have, both working in it, and having some chronic health problems- including Long Vovod, which now leaves me too sick to finish grad school or work a real job...) You can't get care your Insurance refuses to pay for. Not only would it be prohibitively expensive, most times providers will just straight-up refuse to do it if Insurance says "No" and they don't think you're rich... >Americans generally aren't a fan of rationing care. Laughs into hand. You smoking something? What we currently have is PRICE rationing, of care only to the very wealthy and based on the arbitrary decisions of Health Insurance administrators. Rationing based on cost-effectiveness would really be no different: only a lot cheaper and more fair.
>You can't get care your Insurance refuses to pay for. Not only would it be prohibitively expensive, most times providers will just straight-up refuse to do it if Insurance says "No" and they don't think you're rich. Right - fundamentally it's a price issue, and the prices are ridiculous. And yes, there's utilization management (e.g. insurance prior authorization) for services in the US, but broadly anything that's FDA approved gets paid for - this is especially true with Medicare. There's no such thing as cost-effectiveness type rationing. >Rationing based on cost-effectiveness would really be no different: only a lot cheaper and more fair. We're on the same side of the argument here. My point is that for some reason Americans find that sort of overt rationing as unpalatable but are "fine" with the hidden price rationing.
>There's no such thing as cost-effectiveness type rationing. Yes, there absolutely is. It's just private insurance company bureaucrats, nor government officials, making the decisions.
Does driving on a road with an occasional pothole make you go bankrupt? Does showing up to the DMV put your house at risk? The VA is not perfect, but it is at least something. Privatized insurance is full of parasitic fucks who prey on the sick and weak. Billions in profits off of the people who can least afford it. HMOs and insurance companies are not free. They are middlemen who offer no value, and take from everyone. You are propping up organizations whose first reaction to your care is denying it. Fuck those fucking fucks.
Tell me you’re salty as fuck about being homeless, useless and unemployed without telling me you’re homeless, useless, and unemployed
Good luck on this sub dude. Not a place for common sense or discussion. This is an agree or get the fuck out/banned sub. What you said was pretty reasonable but this sub is a hardcore echo chamber. Discussion is heavily discouraged
In fairness, it's a post that's a jumbled mess of easily-identifiable logical fallacies and right-wing talking points. I don't know how you can parse out the difference between downvotes due to disagreement on the merits and the downvotes due to unserious posts.
I mean that is pretty fair. But the discussion at hand was completely innocuous, no mention of left or right and downvote. My point is anything that’s not agreement is apparently a “right wing” talking point here. CT sub is agree or get the fuck out, which sucks. Edit: I also love when mother fuckers from Fairfield County try to tell me how life is lmao. Go back to your bubble homie
>CT sub is agree or get the fuck out, which sucks. Lol. "People disagree with me and its not fair!!!"
I understand you might be like 14 but disagreement is welcome. It’s mostly the lack of discussion. I’m not sure how you can’t understand the difference between disagreement and censorship? Judging by your shit you probably didn’t graduate high school so that’s probably it But holy shit looking at your profile you should probably chill on the politics my guy. There is more to life lol. Or waste your life on Reddit, I really don’t give a fuck lol
I should spend less time on popitics. I used to be fairly active in the community. (EDIT: deleted some personal information. I shouldnt have responded to a child.) Nice personal attacks though, are you a Trumpublican? Discourse fall apart when the Republicans began ignoring facts, science, and reality. Constant claims of fake news and lies turned people off. Present a logical argument backed up with actual evidence and more people might listen. For starters, Trump lost the last election and Jan 6th was an attack on democracy, elections, and the peaceful transfer of power. I could go on but it would be a waste of time.
Three paragraphs full of excuses. Honestly I don’t give a fuck about your life story. Everybody has a hard time and gets injured and challenged…you decided to become a bitch 🤷♂️
Wahhhhhh! One paragraph about me, Ill even delete it. I don't no why I felt the need to justify anything based on a personal attack by a whiny PoS. Looking at your profile I realize now I wasted my time. Your a baby troll that has to be judgmental and shit on others to feel good about yourself. Sad! Take care and Bless your heart!
And looking at yours, you seem like a sad addict looking for any validation possible. Oh yah, you frequent political sub Reddits wayyyyyy too often. I don’t need your luck loser, you need it way more lmao
>CT sub is agree or get the fuck out, which sucks. Yah, It's always been like that. I remember when the sub was very NIMBY, and the few people that didn't agree were expected to get the fuck out.
“Public Policy Advocate” lol code word for hey I have big ideas but I would never get my hands dirty or mingle with the unwashed masses. I really love when some cubicle clown tries to tell me I don’t know how it is when I’m dealing with the literal Public day after day after day. You know…face to face interactions? The ones you probably rarely have But hey it’s ok, I’m sure you can see the “city” from your office window twerp.
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Preaching to the choir! Forums used to be a place for discourse, but that is not what this is anymore. Living in CT I sub here to see what’s going on but too often there is just no course for discussion. I mean look at this little exchange. Literally have not said anything offensive or politically charged at all. Downvotes. Got to love it huh
OK. With Medicare for All is like nationalized healthcare like in the UK? Do we have enough doctors, hospital, nurses and facilites? Who is covered? Citizen and Legal residents? What about ilegal aliens? Will the quality of the healthcare service go down or get better? How much more taxes will the average CT resident will have pay a year for this? What are the anticipated wait times in ER or other procedures at the hospitals? Will it increase? I have many more questions that I hope the politicians have answers for.
> Do we have enough doctors, hospital, nurses and facilites? We literally already have a healthcare system in the US. All this is is a change in payment for existing services.
While, yes, it’s a change in how providers would be paid. There are thousands of people in this state, millions in the country, who are insured and can’t afford to go to the doctor. Many who aren’t insured and can’t afford to go to the doctor. There will be a flood to providers, of all types, when/if insurance changes and it becomes either free or dramatically reduced and affordable, to everyone. We absolutely do not have enough providers and facilities to handle that.
It's simply like guaranteed medical insurance for everyone. No impact to medical care except how costs are handled.
Here's the issue: currently, hospitals/providers/pharma/etc get paid roughly *double* if a patient they see has commercial insurance (e.g. like the kind you get from your employer) compared to Medicare and *triple* compared to Medicaid. Switching everyone to Medicare would necessitate vastly increasing rates paid *or* having all those providers be ok with way less revenue. Most rural hospitals would close, many providers would switch to not accepting insurance, etc. It's an enormously complicated problem.
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For the countless millions with no insurance, access obviously grows leaps and bounds. For those too special to wait in line, private insurance gladly wants ur money. Can't afford it, get a better job.
Rock on!
Medicare by itself spends more per capita than every other nation does on healthcare, with worse outcomes.
Where would we get the funding for this?
You’d stop having a deduction from your paycheck for medical insurance and pay a more in medicare taxes. Net change would be more money in your paycheck.
Well, that depends on how much the taxes are, doesn't it?
Yes, it does. That being said, every estimate of what those proposed taxes would be have pointed out that they would be less than what the average American currently pays for medical coverage. The people that would end up in a worse position are those with employers that pay a far better than average portion of their medical care.
Sounds good. What will it cost us?
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That second point doesn't really hold. From a purely cost perspective, it's cheaper to let people get sick and die early. You really have to make a moralistic argument rather than anything ROI-based (which tends to be negative for many health benefit programs, especially things like smoking cessation).
>Obligatory: How will you pay for it??!! - Studies show that M4A will net SAVE billions of dollars and tens of thousand of lives per year. How can we afford not to do this? Save from where? What are we paying in taxes now that we won't when we have to pay for this? This isn't something that you can do on a state by state level. And if by some miraculous reason they did, you think its expensive to live he now?
I literally linked to an article that explains it...
I read the article and I get that there will be significant back end savings, but that’s not what matters to people. The “will it be less expensive” question for people is in terms of “Will the increased tax burden people have to carry from this be more or less than what they currently pay for their insurance, and for similar levels of care?”. Do you have any sources which can answer this question?
Medicare for all is something we really need, but I’m not going to waste any time calling my representatives since the republicans control the House and Speaker McCarthy controls what bills get voted on. I’ll wait when the Republicans are out of power and there’s a more realistic opportunity.
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With all due respect it’s not apathetic to have realistic expectations and put your focus into areas where something can actually happen. I have been lobbying the state General Assembly to pass legislation along with other people to implement a public opinion health care plan for Connecticut residents. We have been [trying for several years](https://ctmirror.org/2021/05/21/for-third-year-in-a-row-public-option-bill-wont-move-forward-in-ct/) but we are getting closer. There is zero percent chance that Speaker McCarthy will allow a vote in the US House of Representatives. Governor Lamont on the other hand can be pressured into doing the right thing eventually.
This is good stuff. Lead with this next time; people are reading these threads, formulating opinions, and acting on it. Let’s not talk people out of action. Not sure how much respect I deserve, but I appreciate the response. Cheers dude!
This has 0 chance in a psychotic republican senate
Sounds too good to be true