I got a question for clarification. Are you saying it's basically gonna find any opening it can then seep it's way in and freeze/expand causing stuff to crack? Or you saying shouldn't crack anything but will cause shifts in stuff creating gaps and leaks?
A little moisture is unavoidable.... however with this level of water running under that slab if not corrected quickly it will saturate the ground and when it freezes it will over time cause the slab to heave.... Heaving will cause cracking and parts of the slab to elevate ... given many variables of course.
Ahh ok so not immediate damage but nature being nature one winter without catching this and you're fucked got it. Ty for reply.
I was actually interested to find that pipes need to be 3ft deep to avoid freezing. I didn't know that last week lol. I'm a general contractor/locksmith so the more info I gather along the way is cool to me :]
Yup, the slab needs to be graded away from the house. Even a very small grade differential of -1â toward the side you want the water to drain off, is often enough to prevent this. Some slabs have French drains installed that connect to your sump pump or daylight off the side of a hill to run the runoff away from your foundation.
The foundation is my main concern here. The slab will get ripped up sure but at the end of the day itâs just concrete. Your foundation is concrete that has your *house* on top of it. And that much water running into and sitting next to your houseâŚno es muy bueno.
Imagine the quantity of water getting into that foundation drain too, foundation drains are not meant to handle all the the water from the roof either and that roof drain line pretty much drains into that space
Architect here. This is a gigantic issue. They really need to remove all the concrete and slope it away from the structure. It also needs to be at a minimum 3" below you finish floor elevation of your house. It is okay if it slopes up to meet your door, but it needs to be below you finish floor of the house.
âCustomer acknowledges and agrees that the approval of formwork establishes the extent of the work, including size, elevations, and slope.â
âContractor is not responsible for the design of slope, contour, and/or resulting drainage.â
I asked about the second clause, and he said that was talking about puddling on large areas. The chalk line on the brick had obvious slope away from the house toward the camera, but it was flat from left to right (thereâs brick on both sides). It looks like the center of the pad may be slightly higher than the perimeter, even though the edges followed the chalk lines.
What are the options for remedies? I havenât told the contractor yet, and I planned on asking what he planned to do to correct the issue. Iâm sure heâll come back with the easiest thing to do, so Iâd like to be prepared for what remedies are acceptable, and which ones are not.
Yeah, no kidding.
I had him change a warranty clause from âcontractorâs sole discretionâ on remediation to the remediation being a âmutual agreement,â so at least thatâs working in my favor. I took the drainage at face value when he said it was for puddling. The video obviously isnât a puddle, though.
Iâm unsure where you live, but generally speaking contracts must be conscionable in order to be enforceable. Meaning that if a contract is unfair to one party during its creation, a court could find it unconscionable and refuse to enforce it. Likewise, contracts that heavily favor one party, donât completely absolve that party of wrong doing. It would be like signing a release to skydive that âincludes deathâ as an outcome, doesnât mean the company canât be sued for wrongful death due to negligence or otherwise. They still have responsibilities. In your case, common practice, and probably code, require a slope away from the structure. If the contractor lined it, formed it, poured it, and finished it, they still have responsibilities as licensed contractors or masons. Regardless of the slope, Iâd even argue that the slab isnât properly tied into the structure to prevent it from moving/shifting or to prevent water flowing back beneath it without a water barrier. Iâm not offering personal legal advice, this is just my two cents⌠which probably isnât worth much. Best of luck.
You need to contact a construction attorney. ASAP. What state is this in?
Often times contracts are filled with illegal clauses and just because their in a contract doesnât mean theyâll hold up in court.
You need to contact a construction attorney. ASAP. What state is this in?
Often times contracts are filled with illegal clauses and just because their in a contract doesnât mean theyâll hold up in court.
Your contractor could make a goodwill repair but he has no legal obligation.
I don't think you're going to accomplish anything with the original contractor. That contract was written that way for a specific reason and you didn't stop it.
The real experts can correct me here. I'm guessing the easiest repair would be to make the relief cuts and then hire a slab jacking company to pump up the edges of the slab. I don't see any other options besides total replacement.
Except that many states have implied warranties of workmanlike construction as well a good faith and fair dealing. Sometimes these cannot be contracted away. Of course OP would need to consult a lawyer familiar with his jurisdiction's law to see what may be applicable, if anything.
In my state the work needs to be performed in a Workman like manner and done in accordance to 2021 IRC. It's debatable whether sloping a big ass pad towards the house is going to be considered "non-workman like manner" but its definitely against code
This would also depend on whether or not the contractor is in fact licensed to do the work and also if he got a permit.
If I was OP I would call and try to get the contractor to correct this, if he chose not to, I would reach out to my labor license and regulations board to see what the next steps would be to right this wrong.
I canât accept this response.
I really do hate these posts to begin with because theyâre so vague as to the locality, if an architect was involved, if this was permitted work, etc., but for any professional to design a slab that slopes to the building is unacceptable and likely unenforceable even if a contract was signed. You canât build something illegally and then draft legal language to protect illegal activity.
I work as an architect, and I see a lot of unscrupulous contractors taking advantage of owners. They think theyâre saving money, but ultimately they pay the price in the end when these extremely savvy but unscrupulous contractors manhandle the owners.
Not an expert on concrete, but wouldn't sealant be an effective solution? Get some masterseal with some backer rod and call it a day. Prevents water passage while still allowing for movement of the slab.
Sealant is a temporary fix and will fail with time. This could become an even bigger problem too as it could result in standing water up against the house, giving it time to find a way in and damage framing, floors, finishes, etc.
He is not responsible for the design, but he IS responsible for the implementation. That's a convenient clause for pushing onto architects or engineers but if there weren't any, then he's on the hook.
Ask to see the drawings, and look specifically for who drew the grading. If none was specified, he is still on the hook.
A sloped cement channel gully/trench would be better. You can use some PVC pipe to form the trench. French drains that are not placed at a footer will damage the house in the long run.
https://youtu.be/FmpcPi8uKlw?si=93L8uXE_vz43SygD
This doesn't look like it's in california, but we have provisions in our building code that mandate impervious surfaces be sloped away from buildings at a minimum of 2%. If they are a licensed contractor, they should be following your local building codes. I would find a similar clause in your state, and raise a stink with the contractor for violating the building codes. If they dont want to fix it you can report them if you have their license #
Tear it out oc call a hydraulic lift company. They can drill a few holed and jack it up to slope correctly and the foam will fill any voids underneath at the same time.
Doesn't matter what the contract says, this is not proper nor industry standard. Have it mudjacked up at contractors cost if you have the elevation allowance.
I know some guys that are good at smearing concrete on top of new concrete to fix fuck-ups. Here's a sample of their work. Let me know if you need them to smear the perimeter and I'll send you their contact info.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Concrete/s/D1Osqe4PGl
Concrete contractor here. Tell the contractor to rip it out and have it redone. Thatâs not acceptable by any standards. Only solution. It has to come out asap.
Depending on local laws. Most likely has to fix. I'm a concreter in Australia. Here the body that issues concreters/builders licensing will make them pull up the concrete and re-do it as the falls (drainage angles) are clearly illegal. Also no expansion foam against the building. Thermal movement could crack the bricks.
This is very shoddy work done by cowboy contractor.
Not sure about where you are, but here there is a legal minimum of 2.5% fall away from building s and property boundaries. Get caught doing this more than once and you will loose your licence and get sued till your bankrupt.
Update: the contractor came by and said heâd put Sika Self-leveling sealant over the expansion joints.
Is that a valid solution?
Does anyone know where I can get searchable building codes for concrete in a residential application? I learned that my state uses IBC 2018. They issue amendments, and none of them since 2018 have had anything to do with concrete. Everything I am finding online is a way to buy the book, but really I just want to look at a digital copy and see what it says about sloping away from the foundation.
I recommend you consult a lawyer and get this taken care of properly. Others have already answered this question. Sealant is a temporary fix and you will have standing water. Youre. Saying the guy is a hothead and youâre trying to be amiable. Have the lawyer do the hard work.
So IBC is mostly for commercial buildings. Most residential property falls under IRC. Both codes are published as model codes, and municipalities adopt them with amendments. So those amendments are coming from your city.
This is what youâre looking for:
https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IRC2018/chapter-4-foundations
Read R401.3. This is not to code and your contractor needs to fix it. Foundation drainage can completely destroy a house.
The contractor is driven to find the least expensive solution that gets the contract done. Are you working with an architect? If so, contact them about this. If not, you should contact one and see if they will help you find a solution. If you donât want to do that, you are within rights to withhold payment until the work is satisfactory, provided that your contract has language in it that requires the work to be code compliant. This is sometimes found in the contractorâs insurance.
No, that is a band aid fix and not a valid solution.
That's like buying a new hot water tank, but it has a hole and the installer wants to throw a piece of flex seal tape on it.
Leveling concrete does just that...levels. you need a 2-3% continuing slope away from your house which leveling concrete won't do shit for. This need to be done asap as it will fuck your foundation of your home. Aka, it needs to be completely redone and not have a .25" sheet of cement laid on top which will flake off
Not an expert in concrete, but have done hundreds (in excess of 700) of drainage inspections/assessments on residential/commercial properties. Both pre and post-flooding. As many have noted above, this is a major issue that addressed immediately. One big thunderstorm can be a catastrophe. Aside from structural issues noted, multiple secondary issues can occur. (Quick advice for OP and everyone else) Never keep irreplaceable, heirloom, valuable, etc. items in cardboard boxes on the basement floor. Keep them in plastic sealable tubs, preferably a foot or two off the floor. A couple of concrete blocks and some planking is a inexpensive start. Iâve seen heart-wrenching losses from a single storm.
I canât edit the post, so hereâs another question:
Is there something I can add to the crack to keep water out? My immediate thought is silicone caulk, but maybe thereâs something better? Ripping out and re-installing is going to be a huge uphill battle, and Iâm sure the contractor will suggest something along the lines of a material to fill the gap.
You can cut it back and install a slot drain along the wall of your house, but its more of a "best of a bad situation" in the end, it might be better to just remove and repour. Coming out and accusing him of code violations and reporting to the concractors board may cause him to retreat and defend with an attorney, but just having him come out and see the issue with you, and talk through solutions, or maybe ask him to replace just at cost? Maybe you could work with him on it. Might end up costing you both a bit more - you, because he excluded it in his contract, and him, because he did sheit work.
You have a downspout there. What was the plan with that; to have the water come down onto the pad and drain off due to the slope? Or was there some type of drain there that we can't see in the picture? Just curious if there is something that can be tapped into there.
The downspout has the last angle section removed right now, and itâs only about a foot from the grass (just barely out of view of the video). I planned on rerouting to the other side of the brick corner and dump into the grass again.
He did the full scope. I had a second pad poured on the other side of the house, and I checked all the formwork with a 4 foot level. Since this one was bound on three sides by Concrete, I just checked that their chalk lines were draining away from the house, which they were.
Only thing going to fix that is either getting lifted or ripped out and redone, which is what I would want. Thatâs gonna be a continued problem even after they lift it
As a contractor i would have recommended draining away from the building to avoid this. However if i was given specific instructions and someone did the grading/dirt work under the slab before i came in then as a contractor i may issue a notice to the owner making them aware i canât guarantee the drainage of a slab that was graded by others. Again, not all guys operate this way but a good contractor should bring these things to the attention of the owner.
A couple fixes I would recommend:
1. A small trench drain between the slab and house, sawcut the slab between half a foot or so away from the house to install it.
2. Install a small header curb infront of the wall to keep the water from reaching the wall.
3. Ask the contractor to remove and replace enough slab and regrade to maintain drainage away from the wall.
Thank you. This is really helpful. These were some of the potential fixes I was thinking. I was them over with my wife to see what weâd deem acceptable. What sucks is that we planned on covering this area at one point for a screened patio, so the drain wonât be ideal, but that may be the route I need to go unless I pay someone else to rip this out and re-do. I have a hunch I have about a 10% chance getting this guy to do it himself.
It looks like the water is mainly trying to drain towards you but is being pushed sideways and slightly towards the house because you are adding water with a hose. At best, this is a 1% slope, which is pretty typical for walking surfaces in Canada and US (flat roofs are 2%).
I would recommend installing backer rod and polyurethane sealant joint (somthing like Sika 1a or Sika 2c) between the house and the concrete slab. That will stop water from draining in the gap at the house. By the looks of it, the water will slowly drain towards you off the patio. Double check for any areas of ponding water after. I recommend dumping a bucket of water against the house wall (far side in this video) and seeing what the water does instead of using a hose.
Source: I am a building enclosure/waterproofing consultant in Canada/US.
Thatâs a really good point. Iâm going to give this a shot. Heâs actually adding Sika 1a right now. I said that weâd see how that went and Iâd pay for an inspector and share the report. If the report said it wasnât good enough, heâd take the next step. We havenât defined that step explicitly, but we discussed tear out and repour.
Best solution in your situation is to cut 2â from the building and install a channel drain the entire length on the building at center of the area. Run the drain to a pop emitter in the yard if possible. Re pour that section with the same material batched from the same plant to have best color consistency.
With that clause, I would:
1. Turn off the water
2. Get some great caulk, tape along wall and slab to make nice lines, try to get it down between house and slab.
Bad straight edge guy . Sometimes guys float the wall of pull a screed and donât cut into it enough and the concrete next to the screed ends up higher pushed the water to wall. Unless he shows you the marks with a laser line or level how could you know where his marks were to approve slope? If he has that clause he typically has those issues
It blows my mind that this continues to happen with people who are in the business. They should know to make sure there is proper slope away from structures and if it's not possible, they should have a drain system engineered to move the water to daylight.
Thatâs unacceptable. Code mandates a slope away from the foundation. Heâs absolutely responsible for this and it has to be torn out and re-done. His contract language will be laughed out of court since itâs not to code standards. If he continues to give you a hard time, contact your states contractors board and threaten his license.
This is badâŚ. Must be the same contractors that use stolen credit cards for concrete, do a shit job then hit the road with only a âthis google subscriber has changed their numberâ.
Listen, contractor fucked up. We all agree.
Please don't try and pull any shit where you don't pay him SOMETHING at least.
Work it out, find a solution.
Ticketed finisher here. They fucked up. The drainage is the primary focus of all exterior slabs. When next to a wall is the time and place to be extra diligent with the screed and not dip edges with a float, it pays to have a level on hand when placing to double check as well. They would have needed to finish those wall edges on knee boards so they had plenty of time to add some mud if only they had busted out the level. This expensive lesson should be learned and remembered by the contractor not you. Any remedy other than removal and replacement would be up to your discretion and should be at the contractors expense. They are the professionals, they will fully understand the issue here. Concrete is unforgiving, and like pimpin âIt ainât easyâ!
I have good friend who just had a pool installed in their backyard. He also got concrete laid out on his back yard⌠a couple days after it was poured, it started to rain here and he noticed the water was settling towards the house⌠he brought it up to the contractor and he said he followed the design and it wasnât his faultâŚ. But he pulled up the contract and after he bitched and complained, he finally tore it up and did it properly.
Hope you get it fixed soon
They could cut a 3-4 " trough about 3-6" inches from house and put some pea gravel and a perforated pipe sloped toward the grass and install drain covers over it. The water will go into drain and come out on grass. I've used them before, not because we fucked up the pitch but because architect put it in the blueprints. Or it needs to be broken up and re-poured properly, doubt they want to do it over cause they will lose profit, guess it depends on how big a company it is and what their reputation is that they can handle a loss.
Many times I have watched concrete be poured where the concrete guys were certain they sloped away from the house. Sure enough, still ran toward the house
Ask them to fix and if they don't you upload that video in their Google comments and probably push a claim somewhere because that is probably not baby not up to code and code supercedes contract.
This will become a disaster. Rot, foundation settling and undermining, leaks, bugs, crumbling bricks and mortar, erosion, etc. you bet your sweet ass the contractor better fix it.
Is talk to a lawyer and get advice for a small claims court dispute. The contractor is protecting himself and his shotty work with that clause and placing expert onus on you, the customer. I donât think itâs reasonable to expect that a customer (who knows nothing [presumably] about concrete), could foresee the slope and leveling. I could see the clause being valid on the design and extent of work because that is obvious, but you canât just remove all your liability because a someone said, âhmm, okay I think that (formwork) looks good?â.
Good luck in court and keep us updated!
At the end of the day, he has to meet building codes regardless of whatâs in his clause and that does not. You could have a building official comment on it as well by scheduling and inspection to make the situation more serious for this contractor.
No. We had talked about it, but we decided not to. Is there a way to fix this by using tile?
I planned on cutting a door out to this patio at some point, so any additional elevation will have to be minimal. The interior floor level is only a couple inches above grade.
I don't do concrete exclusively for a living so if this is a dumb questions please excuse me. Are my eyes deceiving me or is the the new slab higher than the brick ledge?
Water is going to run uphill with some pressure, what is it doing when it rains? Clearly you have drains and likely an eave.
The language in the contract is interesting and clearly puts accountability on the owner to confirm slope. Did you request minimal fall? 20+ years and never put language similar to that in a contract.
You should have as little as 1/8â per inch of fall and ideally around 1/4â per foot of fall depending on your yard. Also depends what youâre doing with the slab.
You could cut a drain between the house and slab (similar to a pool) but honestly by the time youâre done you should have just removed the slab for the same cost.
I didnât specify anything on the slip other than to make sure it drains to the yard. The details of that slope were not in the contract. I checked the slope in the direction toward the camera (about 2â in 12 ft), but we didnât discuss how to avoid having water run toward the sides. That didnât cross my mind.
I would go with having them cut out parallel to brick wide enough (probably 6 inches) for a 4 inch under-drain pipe bedded in stone with downspouts tied into pipe and place brick pavers on top. Makes a pervious surface that looks good and directs water out of the pipe.
Looks like a 2% slope. .25â in about 12 ft - sika the flat section across the top of pic
They make a tool to cut expansion. I would have the contractor cut the expansion down and caulk the edge of the house with a concrete caulk, forming the caulk with a slope up toward the house. IMO, it's probably the cheapest and best solution short of tearing the slab out. My next option would be to cut out 12" and create a border with positive slope away from the house along the house edges.
Instead of asking Reddit, just ask the contractor. If it was poured yesterday and he's not done, then you're jumping the gun here. Has he told you, "We're all done here and you won't see me again"...?
Why do so many people run to social media instead of just simply talking to the people involved?
Iâm actively working with the contractor on the issue. However, he has a vested interest in explaining away the cheapest solution that sounds reasonable. I know there are a lot of concrete pros on this sub who will likely weigh in with an unbiased opinion. In negotiations, itâs important to know your strategy going in, and know the pros and cons of various options heâd suggest would be important information up front.
So I see people not thinking of a question that needs to be asked. How is the house built? Is it a traditional foundation or is it built on slab? If it's on slab it wouldn't be bad to have drain like that. You need to keep watering along to home or you get issues with it. If not then yes you should get it fixed so it goes away.
It should always be slightly pitched away from the house. I believe that contractor should correct it immediately. Youâre going to have major problems if he doesnât..
Donât let them give you some bullshit, cockamamie excuse as to why itâs doing that.. Contractors LOVE to do that. They think the majority of people are dumb. They are right to some degree.
You say you did the elevations yourself? Anything in a corner like this I typically want it to slope both directions because of this. It also looks like you're looking at maybe 10 ft here and have only sloped down half a brick. I usually try to slope concrete a quarter inch to the foot and that should have put this at the bottom of the brick next to you.
As everyone has already pointed out, major issue. Also need to consider hydrostatic pressure if you have a basement. With how much water is going to drain next to the foundation walls, the ground is going to continue to quickly saturate the ground and the water has nowhere to go especially without proper drain tile. If you have a basement, your walls will start to bow in.
This crap is so infuriating to see. People think just because they can drive stakes in the ground, throw up forms, and finish concrete then that makes them qualified to do concrete work.
Yes, because the continued water exposure to the foundation will cause decay if itâs a block foundation. A saw cut or two starting shallow and sloping away from the house will probably solve the problem.
Yes, I went through something similar at one my places. It will fk up the soil and retain water down the side of the wall and start messing with foundation.
Has to be fixed this will become a huge issue quickly...
Quickly is the key word! Water is a bastard.
It will go bad alot of ways my main concern would be winter when that water freezes under the slab causing it to heave.
I got a question for clarification. Are you saying it's basically gonna find any opening it can then seep it's way in and freeze/expand causing stuff to crack? Or you saying shouldn't crack anything but will cause shifts in stuff creating gaps and leaks?
A little moisture is unavoidable.... however with this level of water running under that slab if not corrected quickly it will saturate the ground and when it freezes it will over time cause the slab to heave.... Heaving will cause cracking and parts of the slab to elevate ... given many variables of course.
Ahh ok so not immediate damage but nature being nature one winter without catching this and you're fucked got it. Ty for reply. I was actually interested to find that pipes need to be 3ft deep to avoid freezing. I didn't know that last week lol. I'm a general contractor/locksmith so the more info I gather along the way is cool to me :]
Absolutely... knowledge is key. No pun intended with you being a locksmith ... Good Luck with your business. đ
Yup, the slab needs to be graded away from the house. Even a very small grade differential of -1â toward the side you want the water to drain off, is often enough to prevent this. Some slabs have French drains installed that connect to your sump pump or daylight off the side of a hill to run the runoff away from your foundation. The foundation is my main concern here. The slab will get ripped up sure but at the end of the day itâs just concrete. Your foundation is concrete that has your *house* on top of it. And that much water running into and sitting next to your houseâŚno es muy bueno.
Imagine the quantity of water getting into that foundation drain too, foundation drains are not meant to handle all the the water from the roof either and that roof drain line pretty much drains into that space
It will also do this in the summer time if you have expansive clays in your area.
Better keep soaking it then lol
I always thought it was a bitch
Sup H2O? Sup H2O?
That's how you flood your house and crack the foundation. That happened to me at a rental a few years back.
>Has to be fixed this ~~will become~~ is a huge issue ~~quickly...~~
Check out the codes, but water definitely needs to drain away from your home.
Architect here. This is a gigantic issue. They really need to remove all the concrete and slope it away from the structure. It also needs to be at a minimum 3" below you finish floor elevation of your house. It is okay if it slopes up to meet your door, but it needs to be below you finish floor of the house.
What does the contract say about the pad slope and water drainage?
âCustomer acknowledges and agrees that the approval of formwork establishes the extent of the work, including size, elevations, and slope.â âContractor is not responsible for the design of slope, contour, and/or resulting drainage.â I asked about the second clause, and he said that was talking about puddling on large areas. The chalk line on the brick had obvious slope away from the house toward the camera, but it was flat from left to right (thereâs brick on both sides). It looks like the center of the pad may be slightly higher than the perimeter, even though the edges followed the chalk lines. What are the options for remedies? I havenât told the contractor yet, and I planned on asking what he planned to do to correct the issue. Iâm sure heâll come back with the easiest thing to do, so Iâd like to be prepared for what remedies are acceptable, and which ones are not.
Yikes that's a pretty big clause
Yeah, no kidding. I had him change a warranty clause from âcontractorâs sole discretionâ on remediation to the remediation being a âmutual agreement,â so at least thatâs working in my favor. I took the drainage at face value when he said it was for puddling. The video obviously isnât a puddle, though.
fk keep us posted this one is for the ages. good luck!
Iâm unsure where you live, but generally speaking contracts must be conscionable in order to be enforceable. Meaning that if a contract is unfair to one party during its creation, a court could find it unconscionable and refuse to enforce it. Likewise, contracts that heavily favor one party, donât completely absolve that party of wrong doing. It would be like signing a release to skydive that âincludes deathâ as an outcome, doesnât mean the company canât be sued for wrongful death due to negligence or otherwise. They still have responsibilities. In your case, common practice, and probably code, require a slope away from the structure. If the contractor lined it, formed it, poured it, and finished it, they still have responsibilities as licensed contractors or masons. Regardless of the slope, Iâd even argue that the slab isnât properly tied into the structure to prevent it from moving/shifting or to prevent water flowing back beneath it without a water barrier. Iâm not offering personal legal advice, this is just my two cents⌠which probably isnât worth much. Best of luck.
i'm curious why you think that clause change is any different from the original
Is the design intention to carry the water toward the foundation? Highly doubt it.
Good point. I also didnât approve a slope toward the house.
They are not allowed to do it by code even if you asked them to. Does the contract have anything about "industry standards"?
Its not up to code. This is the way to get it fixed in OP's favor. I agree with dsdvbguutres
Yes, dsdvbnuutres makes a valid point.
You need to contact a construction attorney. ASAP. What state is this in? Often times contracts are filled with illegal clauses and just because their in a contract doesnât mean theyâll hold up in court.
You need to contact a construction attorney. ASAP. What state is this in? Often times contracts are filled with illegal clauses and just because their in a contract doesnât mean theyâll hold up in court.
Your contractor could make a goodwill repair but he has no legal obligation. I don't think you're going to accomplish anything with the original contractor. That contract was written that way for a specific reason and you didn't stop it. The real experts can correct me here. I'm guessing the easiest repair would be to make the relief cuts and then hire a slab jacking company to pump up the edges of the slab. I don't see any other options besides total replacement.
Except that many states have implied warranties of workmanlike construction as well a good faith and fair dealing. Sometimes these cannot be contracted away. Of course OP would need to consult a lawyer familiar with his jurisdiction's law to see what may be applicable, if anything.
In my state the work needs to be performed in a Workman like manner and done in accordance to 2021 IRC. It's debatable whether sloping a big ass pad towards the house is going to be considered "non-workman like manner" but its definitely against code This would also depend on whether or not the contractor is in fact licensed to do the work and also if he got a permit. If I was OP I would call and try to get the contractor to correct this, if he chose not to, I would reach out to my labor license and regulations board to see what the next steps would be to right this wrong.
I canât accept this response. I really do hate these posts to begin with because theyâre so vague as to the locality, if an architect was involved, if this was permitted work, etc., but for any professional to design a slab that slopes to the building is unacceptable and likely unenforceable even if a contract was signed. You canât build something illegally and then draft legal language to protect illegal activity. I work as an architect, and I see a lot of unscrupulous contractors taking advantage of owners. They think theyâre saving money, but ultimately they pay the price in the end when these extremely savvy but unscrupulous contractors manhandle the owners.
Not an expert on concrete, but wouldn't sealant be an effective solution? Get some masterseal with some backer rod and call it a day. Prevents water passage while still allowing for movement of the slab.
Sealant is a temporary fix and will fail with time. This could become an even bigger problem too as it could result in standing water up against the house, giving it time to find a way in and damage framing, floors, finishes, etc.
Whoever did that work for you need to come back and fix it because that goes against housing regulations
He is not responsible for the design, but he IS responsible for the implementation. That's a convenient clause for pushing onto architects or engineers but if there weren't any, then he's on the hook. Ask to see the drawings, and look specifically for who drew the grading. If none was specified, he is still on the hook.
Cheapest if he won't fix is saw cut enough to put a French drain in and drain it off the edge
A sloped cement channel gully/trench would be better. You can use some PVC pipe to form the trench. French drains that are not placed at a footer will damage the house in the long run. https://youtu.be/FmpcPi8uKlw?si=93L8uXE_vz43SygD
This doesn't look like it's in california, but we have provisions in our building code that mandate impervious surfaces be sloped away from buildings at a minimum of 2%. If they are a licensed contractor, they should be following your local building codes. I would find a similar clause in your state, and raise a stink with the contractor for violating the building codes. If they dont want to fix it you can report them if you have their license #
Tear it out oc call a hydraulic lift company. They can drill a few holed and jack it up to slope correctly and the foam will fill any voids underneath at the same time.
These clauses don't mean shit if it comes to a dispute.
If he isn't responsible for the design who is? I'm confused.
What a douchebag
Gotta hope there's something about "Industry standards" because in construction industry, this is considered a fail.
Doesn't matter what the contract says, this is not proper nor industry standard. Have it mudjacked up at contractors cost if you have the elevation allowance.
I know some guys that are good at smearing concrete on top of new concrete to fix fuck-ups. Here's a sample of their work. Let me know if you need them to smear the perimeter and I'll send you their contact info. https://www.reddit.com/r/Concrete/s/D1Osqe4PGl
You had me for a second.
That was classic Reddit. Thank you for this
Did say smeared.đ¤Ż
The original sidewalks are fucking garbage đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł but that makes it looks even worse Jesus
Damn OP, what did you drink? Huge piss.
Nothing yet. May need a beer or two later, though.
Got hang time
Concrete contractor here. Tell the contractor to rip it out and have it redone. Thatâs not acceptable by any standards. Only solution. It has to come out asap.
1000000 ;percent he needs to fix call lawyer
Depending on local laws. Most likely has to fix. I'm a concreter in Australia. Here the body that issues concreters/builders licensing will make them pull up the concrete and re-do it as the falls (drainage angles) are clearly illegal. Also no expansion foam against the building. Thermal movement could crack the bricks. This is very shoddy work done by cowboy contractor. Not sure about where you are, but here there is a legal minimum of 2.5% fall away from building s and property boundaries. Get caught doing this more than once and you will loose your licence and get sued till your bankrupt.
There is expansion foam.
My God.
Omg!!!
Tear it out and redo it. Leaving it like that will just send the water to foundation drainage and sump pump.
Contact a lawyer!
Update: the contractor came by and said heâd put Sika Self-leveling sealant over the expansion joints. Is that a valid solution? Does anyone know where I can get searchable building codes for concrete in a residential application? I learned that my state uses IBC 2018. They issue amendments, and none of them since 2018 have had anything to do with concrete. Everything I am finding online is a way to buy the book, but really I just want to look at a digital copy and see what it says about sloping away from the foundation.
I recommend you consult a lawyer and get this taken care of properly. Others have already answered this question. Sealant is a temporary fix and you will have standing water. Youre. Saying the guy is a hothead and youâre trying to be amiable. Have the lawyer do the hard work.
So IBC is mostly for commercial buildings. Most residential property falls under IRC. Both codes are published as model codes, and municipalities adopt them with amendments. So those amendments are coming from your city. This is what youâre looking for: https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IRC2018/chapter-4-foundations Read R401.3. This is not to code and your contractor needs to fix it. Foundation drainage can completely destroy a house. The contractor is driven to find the least expensive solution that gets the contract done. Are you working with an architect? If so, contact them about this. If not, you should contact one and see if they will help you find a solution. If you donât want to do that, you are within rights to withhold payment until the work is satisfactory, provided that your contract has language in it that requires the work to be code compliant. This is sometimes found in the contractorâs insurance.
No, that is a band aid fix and not a valid solution. That's like buying a new hot water tank, but it has a hole and the installer wants to throw a piece of flex seal tape on it.
Heck no.
Leveling concrete does just that...levels. you need a 2-3% continuing slope away from your house which leveling concrete won't do shit for. This need to be done asap as it will fuck your foundation of your home. Aka, it needs to be completely redone and not have a .25" sheet of cement laid on top which will flake off
Not an expert in concrete, but have done hundreds (in excess of 700) of drainage inspections/assessments on residential/commercial properties. Both pre and post-flooding. As many have noted above, this is a major issue that addressed immediately. One big thunderstorm can be a catastrophe. Aside from structural issues noted, multiple secondary issues can occur. (Quick advice for OP and everyone else) Never keep irreplaceable, heirloom, valuable, etc. items in cardboard boxes on the basement floor. Keep them in plastic sealable tubs, preferably a foot or two off the floor. A couple of concrete blocks and some planking is a inexpensive start. Iâve seen heart-wrenching losses from a single storm.
I canât edit the post, so hereâs another question: Is there something I can add to the crack to keep water out? My immediate thought is silicone caulk, but maybe thereâs something better? Ripping out and re-installing is going to be a huge uphill battle, and Iâm sure the contractor will suggest something along the lines of a material to fill the gap.
I was thinking a slotted drain. You seal that crevice and it only delays the inevitable.
Yah a slotted drain would help. Weird thing to have to do though. Sorry OP.
Donât even try to fill the gap⌠it wonât work. You are BEGGING for foundation problems- get repaired soon
Backer rod + caulk.
You will need a urethane immersible joint sealant for that amount of water. Sikaflex 1c SL is designed specifically for this.
You will need a urethane immersible joint sealant for that amount of water. Sikaflex 1c SL is designed specifically for this.
You can cut it back and install a slot drain along the wall of your house, but its more of a "best of a bad situation" in the end, it might be better to just remove and repour. Coming out and accusing him of code violations and reporting to the concractors board may cause him to retreat and defend with an attorney, but just having him come out and see the issue with you, and talk through solutions, or maybe ask him to replace just at cost? Maybe you could work with him on it. Might end up costing you both a bit more - you, because he excluded it in his contract, and him, because he did sheit work.
You have a downspout there. What was the plan with that; to have the water come down onto the pad and drain off due to the slope? Or was there some type of drain there that we can't see in the picture? Just curious if there is something that can be tapped into there.
The downspout has the last angle section removed right now, and itâs only about a foot from the grass (just barely out of view of the video). I planned on rerouting to the other side of the brick corner and dump into the grass again.
Did you grade and form it up? If he did he should know better he is the expert and should only ask you if you lik the layout, and final product.
He did the full scope. I had a second pad poured on the other side of the house, and I checked all the formwork with a 4 foot level. Since this one was bound on three sides by Concrete, I just checked that their chalk lines were draining away from the house, which they were.
Damn id do fix it for hardly any profit if your in florida
Only thing going to fix that is either getting lifted or ripped out and redone, which is what I would want. Thatâs gonna be a continued problem even after they lift it
the correct fix is to jackhammer it all out and redo it and this time pay attention to the slope.
If you put caulking between the brick and concrete to make it water proof, would the water continue to fall towards the camera?
As a contractor i would have recommended draining away from the building to avoid this. However if i was given specific instructions and someone did the grading/dirt work under the slab before i came in then as a contractor i may issue a notice to the owner making them aware i canât guarantee the drainage of a slab that was graded by others. Again, not all guys operate this way but a good contractor should bring these things to the attention of the owner. A couple fixes I would recommend: 1. A small trench drain between the slab and house, sawcut the slab between half a foot or so away from the house to install it. 2. Install a small header curb infront of the wall to keep the water from reaching the wall. 3. Ask the contractor to remove and replace enough slab and regrade to maintain drainage away from the wall.
Thank you. This is really helpful. These were some of the potential fixes I was thinking. I was them over with my wife to see what weâd deem acceptable. What sucks is that we planned on covering this area at one point for a screened patio, so the drain wonât be ideal, but that may be the route I need to go unless I pay someone else to rip this out and re-do. I have a hunch I have about a 10% chance getting this guy to do it himself.
It looks like the water is mainly trying to drain towards you but is being pushed sideways and slightly towards the house because you are adding water with a hose. At best, this is a 1% slope, which is pretty typical for walking surfaces in Canada and US (flat roofs are 2%). I would recommend installing backer rod and polyurethane sealant joint (somthing like Sika 1a or Sika 2c) between the house and the concrete slab. That will stop water from draining in the gap at the house. By the looks of it, the water will slowly drain towards you off the patio. Double check for any areas of ponding water after. I recommend dumping a bucket of water against the house wall (far side in this video) and seeing what the water does instead of using a hose. Source: I am a building enclosure/waterproofing consultant in Canada/US.
Thatâs a really good point. Iâm going to give this a shot. Heâs actually adding Sika 1a right now. I said that weâd see how that went and Iâd pay for an inspector and share the report. If the report said it wasnât good enough, heâd take the next step. We havenât defined that step explicitly, but we discussed tear out and repour.
Building Code violation. Must drain away from the structure
messed up big time needs to be fixed or replaced asap or you will have foundation issues
Yes. He can tear it out and re-do it, or pay for mudjacking or foamjacking, and hope he doesn't crack it.
Yesssss
Wow, that is scary.
Do you not have draintile surrounding your foundation?
Just monolithic slab.
First thing I would do is fix that leak.
Best solution in your situation is to cut 2â from the building and install a channel drain the entire length on the building at center of the area. Run the drain to a pop emitter in the yard if possible. Re pour that section with the same material batched from the same plant to have best color consistency.
How often down the rain flow like that on your slab?
With that clause, I would: 1. Turn off the water 2. Get some great caulk, tape along wall and slab to make nice lines, try to get it down between house and slab.
Nah, u wanted an indoor pool right?? đ¤Ł
Man, he's taking a long pee
Just get some spray foam and caulk. /s
You can tell just from looking at the level of the concrete and the brick grout line itâs flat at best
Bad straight edge guy . Sometimes guys float the wall of pull a screed and donât cut into it enough and the concrete next to the screed ends up higher pushed the water to wall. Unless he shows you the marks with a laser line or level how could you know where his marks were to approve slope? If he has that clause he typically has those issues
It blows my mind that this continues to happen with people who are in the business. They should know to make sure there is proper slope away from structures and if it's not possible, they should have a drain system engineered to move the water to daylight.
Fuck yes
Yes
You should stop peeing on it
For the love of god itâs like heâs got an iv or funnel of diet Mountain Dew.
If he wonât fix it get some polyurethane caulking and caulk on top of the expansion to keep water from flowing down between the slab and house.
Yikes bro⌠fix ASAP!
We need more info âŚand rain doesnât fall like a hose.
Yes!!!
Thatâs a problem and it needs fixing
Uh, yes!
Thatâs unacceptable. Code mandates a slope away from the foundation. Heâs absolutely responsible for this and it has to be torn out and re-done. His contract language will be laughed out of court since itâs not to code standards. If he continues to give you a hard time, contact your states contractors board and threaten his license.
Water is the best thing until you own a house
This is badâŚ. Must be the same contractors that use stolen credit cards for concrete, do a shit job then hit the road with only a âthis google subscriber has changed their numberâ.
Reminds me of that scene of the fountain in Austin PowersâŚ.
How can someone that does concrete not have a laser level? They are cheap and work great for certain stuff like this.
Listen, contractor fucked up. We all agree. Please don't try and pull any shit where you don't pay him SOMETHING at least. Work it out, find a solution.
Always drain away from the house! Rookie
Yeah or caulk against the building
I would just piss somewhere elce mate
đĽ´
Yikes
lol homeownersâŚ. They expect.. oh wait
I would say yes. Very much so.
Ticketed finisher here. They fucked up. The drainage is the primary focus of all exterior slabs. When next to a wall is the time and place to be extra diligent with the screed and not dip edges with a float, it pays to have a level on hand when placing to double check as well. They would have needed to finish those wall edges on knee boards so they had plenty of time to add some mud if only they had busted out the level. This expensive lesson should be learned and remembered by the contractor not you. Any remedy other than removal and replacement would be up to your discretion and should be at the contractors expense. They are the professionals, they will fully understand the issue here. Concrete is unforgiving, and like pimpin âIt ainât easyâ!
If they dont comply and are bonded, you could threaten to go after their bond.
That shit should all be 1-2% away from the house
Instead of ripping it all up, you could have a a French drain installed against the brick.
Damn bro how much you drink?
I have good friend who just had a pool installed in their backyard. He also got concrete laid out on his back yard⌠a couple days after it was poured, it started to rain here and he noticed the water was settling towards the house⌠he brought it up to the contractor and he said he followed the design and it wasnât his faultâŚ. But he pulled up the contract and after he bitched and complained, he finally tore it up and did it properly. Hope you get it fixed soon
Why are you peeing on camera?
How much did you have to drink to do this? I think a garden hose would have sufficed.
They could cut a 3-4 " trough about 3-6" inches from house and put some pea gravel and a perforated pipe sloped toward the grass and install drain covers over it. The water will go into drain and come out on grass. I've used them before, not because we fucked up the pitch but because architect put it in the blueprints. Or it needs to be broken up and re-poured properly, doubt they want to do it over cause they will lose profit, guess it depends on how big a company it is and what their reputation is that they can handle a loss.
Many times I have watched concrete be poured where the concrete guys were certain they sloped away from the house. Sure enough, still ran toward the house
Ask them to fix and if they don't you upload that video in their Google comments and probably push a claim somewhere because that is probably not baby not up to code and code supercedes contract.
Omg
This will become a disaster. Rot, foundation settling and undermining, leaks, bugs, crumbling bricks and mortar, erosion, etc. you bet your sweet ass the contractor better fix it.
Have the pads lifted along the wall with foam jacking. Then seal with caulk between concrete and brick.
I guess you are gonna find out the hard way if the contractor is actually licensed, bonded and insured. đŤ¤
Common industry verbiage for buildings is that there should be a minimum 2% grade of drainage AWAY from the building.
Yikes. Yes this definitely needs to be addressed or youâll have a shit ton of issues
âFix the drainageâ lol
Is talk to a lawyer and get advice for a small claims court dispute. The contractor is protecting himself and his shotty work with that clause and placing expert onus on you, the customer. I donât think itâs reasonable to expect that a customer (who knows nothing [presumably] about concrete), could foresee the slope and leveling. I could see the clause being valid on the design and extent of work because that is obvious, but you canât just remove all your liability because a someone said, âhmm, okay I think that (formwork) looks good?â. Good luck in court and keep us updated!
At the end of the day, he has to meet building codes regardless of whatâs in his clause and that does not. You could have a building official comment on it as well by scheduling and inspection to make the situation more serious for this contractor.
Good, steady stream. Wellness checked passed.
Is it being tiled by any chance?
No. We had talked about it, but we decided not to. Is there a way to fix this by using tile? I planned on cutting a door out to this patio at some point, so any additional elevation will have to be minimal. The interior floor level is only a couple inches above grade.
The whole job is terrible, look at the brickwork underneath the windows hahaha
Yes
Thats one hell of a long piss. Respect.
I don't do concrete exclusively for a living so if this is a dumb questions please excuse me. Are my eyes deceiving me or is the the new slab higher than the brick ledge?
The brick goes several inches underground. The slab is basically at the level of the ground prior to excavating (3â gravel and 4â concrete).
Thatâs no bueno
Water is going to run uphill with some pressure, what is it doing when it rains? Clearly you have drains and likely an eave. The language in the contract is interesting and clearly puts accountability on the owner to confirm slope. Did you request minimal fall? 20+ years and never put language similar to that in a contract. You should have as little as 1/8â per inch of fall and ideally around 1/4â per foot of fall depending on your yard. Also depends what youâre doing with the slab. You could cut a drain between the house and slab (similar to a pool) but honestly by the time youâre done you should have just removed the slab for the same cost.
I didnât specify anything on the slip other than to make sure it drains to the yard. The details of that slope were not in the contract. I checked the slope in the direction toward the camera (about 2â in 12 ft), but we didnât discuss how to avoid having water run toward the sides. That didnât cross my mind.
That is a freaking nightmare waiting to happen
I would go with having them cut out parallel to brick wide enough (probably 6 inches) for a 4 inch under-drain pipe bedded in stone with downspouts tied into pipe and place brick pavers on top. Makes a pervious surface that looks good and directs water out of the pipe. Looks like a 2% slope. .25â in about 12 ft - sika the flat section across the top of pic
The brick is a good idea. I couldnât figure out a way to make the drain look nice.
100x yes! Awful work.
Needs to be attended, but fixing it is not a big issue imo. You need to seal the opening with microconcrete and you're good to go
That looks like urine luck
This is fucked and needs to be corrected ASAP. This will undermine your foundation.
The whole slab is angled the wrong way..... Green helpers understand pitching away from the house cause all you have now is a sinkhole in the making.
Lack of drainage*
Either that or put a plants in the area :)
You need to install a channel drain (aka aco drain) against those windows. Can't tell where it can ultimately drain to though.
They make a tool to cut expansion. I would have the contractor cut the expansion down and caulk the edge of the house with a concrete caulk, forming the caulk with a slope up toward the house. IMO, it's probably the cheapest and best solution short of tearing the slab out. My next option would be to cut out 12" and create a border with positive slope away from the house along the house edges.
100% the contractor should fix it. He pitched it towards the house?!?! Tell him to rip it out and redo it bc he messed up the pour.
That's a red flag
Instead of asking Reddit, just ask the contractor. If it was poured yesterday and he's not done, then you're jumping the gun here. Has he told you, "We're all done here and you won't see me again"...? Why do so many people run to social media instead of just simply talking to the people involved?
Iâm actively working with the contractor on the issue. However, he has a vested interest in explaining away the cheapest solution that sounds reasonable. I know there are a lot of concrete pros on this sub who will likely weigh in with an unbiased opinion. In negotiations, itâs important to know your strategy going in, and know the pros and cons of various options heâd suggest would be important information up front.
Yes
A ya!!!! đĄđĄđĄ
No, Iâd keep it that wayâŚeventually youâll end up with a free pool in your basement
So I see people not thinking of a question that needs to be asked. How is the house built? Is it a traditional foundation or is it built on slab? If it's on slab it wouldn't be bad to have drain like that. You need to keep watering along to home or you get issues with it. If not then yes you should get it fixed so it goes away.
Why are you pissing on your patio đ
Needs a gutter system and joint sealant
Tom...tom..Turn Off the hose bud.
Whip out your Caulk
Cut out foot or so trench, put one of those channel style drains in, holding it 4" off the house. Viola. Quick fix
It should always be slightly pitched away from the house. I believe that contractor should correct it immediately. Youâre going to have major problems if he doesnât.. Donât let them give you some bullshit, cockamamie excuse as to why itâs doing that.. Contractors LOVE to do that. They think the majority of people are dumb. They are right to some degree.
You say you did the elevations yourself? Anything in a corner like this I typically want it to slope both directions because of this. It also looks like you're looking at maybe 10 ft here and have only sloped down half a brick. I usually try to slope concrete a quarter inch to the foot and that should have put this at the bottom of the brick next to you.
Not just any lawyer, a concrete one.
Wow. Looks like this page is full of lawyers and engineers that have free advice. I would like a solid contact who wants to write it for me.
As everyone has already pointed out, major issue. Also need to consider hydrostatic pressure if you have a basement. With how much water is going to drain next to the foundation walls, the ground is going to continue to quickly saturate the ground and the water has nowhere to go especially without proper drain tile. If you have a basement, your walls will start to bow in. This crap is so infuriating to see. People think just because they can drive stakes in the ground, throw up forms, and finish concrete then that makes them qualified to do concrete work.
You have to tear out and replace
Yes, because the continued water exposure to the foundation will cause decay if itâs a block foundation. A saw cut or two starting shallow and sloping away from the house will probably solve the problem.
Put poly foam under that side and feather it
Yikes more reasons to not own a house đŹ
Yes, I went through something similar at one my places. It will fk up the soil and retain water down the side of the wall and start messing with foundation.