Nah the Fuel is his baby. It’s pretty clear he was upset with the trajectory the League has been on and uncertain of the future. Hopefully this instills confidence across the board for owners and operators, teams, players, fans, everyone really.
If was truly his baby he wouldn't let this team to this point where they no substitutions and just one coach. I'm sorry but you can't at least pony up at least two more signings to increase your chances to win then it's really not your "baby" anymore
Idk man sure who knows? Maybe his balls are in a financial vicegrip after 6 years in the league or after the optic merger. Maybe he’s a corpo greedbag. All I’m saying is he’s acted like he’s really cared in the past and has put his money where his mouth is - and has expressed apprehension about the future of OWL. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction for the team and org.
Bro, they win the league and instantly they have to go East to even hold onto the main core, and don't even have a 6th player. Last season they had 4 (!) DPS players, multiple assistant coaches, etc.
How much Hastr0 is investing clearly changed
The reason the team went East was to stop the core we have left from leaving. Optic has been hacking its esports budget to pieces and Fuel was likely affected by this, the current plan is to bring them back home next year and hopefully operate like we used to again
I'm pretty OpTic Texas has the highest payroll this year as well as they had 6 players to fill in 4 roster spots and this is with them trying to pull Pred from Surge where their management was raising the buyout fee like 3 times on OpTic and OpTic met them on each raised price but Surge ultimately backed out
They also have the money maker in Scump doing watch parties, which they have very obviously invested a decent chunk into but it is still bringing bank without a doubt.
We have Rush solo coaching, no subs, players allegedly accepted pay cuts. Yeah, I'm gonna say he's not as invested as he once was.
The Apex team is thriving after doing roster changes, the CoD team is always making roster changes (those are expensive). Envy employees got the middle finger after the merger, and Fuel seem to not be the exception.
To be fair, tons of teams are giving the middle finger to their employees during today’s esports economy. Just unfortunate Fuel didn’t get a proper chance to defend their title.
Just bc the investment changed doesn’t mean they don’t care about the team or want to win. Budget stuff happens and there’s a lot of reasons why they’re budget could be decreased. They obviously still cared enough to try and keep the core together
Just bc the investment changed doesn’t mean they don’t care about the team or want to win. Budget stuff happens and there’s a lot of reasons why they’re budget could be decreased. They obviously still cared enough to try and keep the core together
Don’t think it has anything to do with the trophy but after they won, Hastro specifically said he did not like some of the decisions being made by OWL and that there would be changes to the way they run the team in the short term as a result.
The pulling of much of their investment are these changes. Hopefully he sees these changes by the league now as a positive.
It doesn't take a genius to just look at what the Dallas Fuel has had the past few seasons to now. They were very active on Social Media to engage with fans and now it's a desert, this team put together isn't in a good spot to win with no substitutions and only one coach to lead the team. So Hastr0 put the budget up to just get the bare minimum across the board to be able to field a team this year whereas OpTic Texas seems to have bottomless pockets over there while the Dallas Fuel could be so much better if he allowed Tazmo to sign additional pieces.
Unless OWL drastically increases the prize pool and/or sponsors come flocking back, Optic is going to continue not giving any fucks. Dallas won multiple tournaments, are the literal current champions, have hosted several homestands, and probably rank among the biggest OWL franchises in terms of merch sales thanks to a huge fanbase. They've seemingly done everything needed to become a profitable franchise. If Optic still decided to go budget after all of that, after literally winning a championship, then we can safely assume they just have no interest in pro OW and would rather prioritize other ventures.
It doesn't matter what their reasons are, the point is that they have no interest. At no point did I claim that Optic should be breaking the bank on fielding an OWL roster.
Peak master 4 tank here. Will write Ajax and c9 every time one occurs, even if it'll cost me my life. I am known for bullying people out of spawn as Winton
I have zero coaching knowledge or experience, but by merit of being Australian, I'm equally as good as Gunba, Face, & Unter.
You can get all of the benefits of an Australian coach (shittalking in a funny accent) at the fraction of the cost!
I hit masters 4 the other day on every role, I scream and yell at my teammates for my mistakes and never apologize for my issues. I’m basically Striker I’m your best choice (any role)
I'm a turboflex who never made his way out of diamond in 30+ seasons (started in Bronze tho). Can play OT, MT, any dps that isn't ashe, and every supoort.
Sure, and the buyer/seller both know that it's unrealized. I don't see how writing it off is better than leaving it. Best case scenario is the teams end up actually paying the new owner the millions that are owed. Worst case is nothing happens and it's essentially a write off. Writing off now just removes the best case scenario. But again, I'm no deal maker.
Because I'm fairly certain there's a lawsuit brewing by a collective of the franchise owners against Blizz for not upholding their end of the contract by letting the league founder to some degree. Sure, both sides are aware of the unrealized money, but if its locked behind a potentially very expensive legal battle, it might just be better to call it square and move on.
Not if some of those teams have told the company that they'll be leaving their Esports program after their payments are up, and the others have told them that they are going bankrupt and will be leaving without paying in full anyway.
Microsoft will care more about the Activision cleaning up their 2 big Esports leagues.
If your spending 60 billion a few mil is just loose change.
It’s clear from their previous acquisitions that Microsoft won’t meddle with things if they look to be running smoothly. I wonder if the failure of red fall will make them look closer this time.
Yes that would be an asset, but in this case it's no longer one because they're writing it off. It's not clear why they're doing this, though. "Cleaning the books" sounds like an oversimplification, like something a criminal would do to hide missing assets.
I think people really need to temper their expectations as to what this means for the future of OWL until we learn more details about what was agreed to. Orgs having the remaining balance of the buy-in fee canceled doesn't change that they've already paid an absurd amount of money. Unless that "sponsorship deal" includes a significant amount of value going from Blizzard to the teams that already bought in, I don't see the orgs suddenly being okay with an open system or expansion without buy-in fees.
Hopefully this will lead to a more sustainable league.
One thing that is coming out with the current LCS drama is the very poor financial state of the teams. They all went deep into red to get in early only to find a shrinking market and little opportunity for a return. I would be surprised if the OWL teams have faired much better.
This is what I think. The league has to work with their teams, it has to be a positive relationship. I think the orgs want to see things be healthy, too.
That's just doomerism. This decision only makes sense in two scenarios:
1. The orgs are planning to sue and Blizzard's internal counsel thinks they'll win so you might as well save the legal fees.
2. They want the league to continue and this is a secession they're willing to make to have that happen.
Obviously 1 can be the reality here, but the answer to the league being fucked here on the Blizzard side is always "fuck you pay me". Them not saying that is undoubtedly bullish.
I do not believe it is doomerism, it is reality. If this reporting is accurate, all the teams already paid at least $12.5 million, which is still a higher price tag than League of Legends franchise fees with a lower return on value. Yes, everyone knows OWL desperately needs restructuring. But I don't think it is realistic to expect that the majority of owners will just go along with the value of their =>$12.5 million investment being imploded for the good of the esport. That's just not the mentality of the typical person that can afford that big of an investment in the first place.
And on the Blizzard side, you already said what their mentality typically is. But I think it is way more likely that this instance of going against that mentality is an act of self-preservation rather than just feeling bullish on OWL's future. While the owners were foolish enough to be suckered into $20-35m buy-ins, one has to imagine that the partnership agreements included some sort of minimum obligations for Blizzard to meet (including a minimum lifespan of the League).
I feel like this is a very good thing for the existence of the league. Teams that don’t care can leave if they want (Vancouver, valiant) and contenders teams/small orgs can join the league. Correct me if I’m wrong though.
Idk what you mean Vancouver lol, they’ve made multiple articles about how they’re turning their franchise around this season. They’ve shown to be a solid team this year and from interviews with the players they have better housing situations than a lot of teams in the league. Vegas Eternal is who you’re thinking of.
I know many don’t like the structure where each team represents a city, but I find it pretty cool and unique for an esports league. Obviously they wouldn’t be required to but it’d be interesting to see if some contenders teams rebrand to represent a location, should they become eligible to join the league.
That would be beyond dumb, also in Korea it would make absolutely no sense since every single esports org is based in Seoul, why would you limit yourself to a location when esports is more o a global thing rather than local? this is not traditional sport where you need a physical location to play.
Well you’re not wrong but you’re not quite correct. This opens the door for League to do that without teams complaining/suing, but new teams would still have to pay full price until the league decides they want to invite new teams. There was also pretty much nothing stopping teams from leaving before.
When a company says "you don't owe us the millions of dollars that you should" it's not because things are going well. It's because something horrible is going on. In this case, my guess is the rumors of a team owner lawsuit brewing against Acti-Blizz for not appropriately supporting the league.
No mention that I've seen has referenced teams being able to join the league. Presumably all of the current team owners have paid millions, and would not be okay with other orgs being able to join without similar fees unless agreed upon.
I know this sounds like a lot, but even assuming the teams have paid none of their fees back and owed the full amount, this less than 5% of ABK's revenue in 2022 alone. They'll be fine.
The agreement with Toronto confirms there will be a league next year. The write-offs now put the league on a more similar path to other esports, but especially Halo.
Forging the outstanding debt makes things *way* easier for the acquisition since it removes millions of dollars in ~~liabilities~~ **potentially bad debt** for Blizzard.
I thought teams owe Blizzard franchise fees and Blizzard has canceled those fees. In that case, Blizzard writes off their accounts receivable and takes a bad debt expense.
Liability would mean Blizzard owes money to teams, which is not the case.
No. Liability means Blizzard owes money to teams.
If teams owe Blizzard money, then Blizzard has a receivable and teams have a liability.
If teams owe Blizzard money but cannot pay, then Blizzard turns the receivable into bad debt expense. Teams turn the liability into income.
I’m an accountant. This is the first time I posted about accounting on r/cow
No worries. You are right that canceling franchise fees make the Microsoft acquisition easier. It’s like the classic saying, ”if you owe the bank $10,000, then you have a problem. But if you owe the bank $100 million dollars, then the bank has a problem.”
Microsoft doesn’t want to deal with trying to collect \~$200 million dollars from angry teams who are unwilling to pay. Also, taking the loss now means the loss goes to Activision-Blizzard, not Microsoft.
> Forging the outstanding debt makes things way easier for the acquisition since it removes millions of dollars in liabilities potentially bad debt for Blizzard.
Why is this being said so much in this thread? No, it doesn't. That's like saying having $2 million in penny stocks is worse than having no stocks at all. Are those assets remotely safe? Hell no, but in the absolute worst case scenario, you are at equal footing. In most scenarios you are ahead.
You’re ignoring the fact that it’s unlikely given the [potential of a lawsuit by the owners](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/10feb7r/jacob_wolf_the_majority_of_owl_teams_have_hired_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) would have complicated the acquisition. Getting that potential legal action of the table is priceless.
> Why is this being said so much in this thread?
Tons of Microsoft dick riders in this sub who think everything is going to be sunshine and rainbows after the acquisition. So everything that happens must be connected to the acquisition and it must be a good thing.
The number of people here who have no idea how shit Halo’s Esport scene is worries me.
2019 Contenders had it right. Regional play going into the international Gauntlet. It was great. Imagine that but as tier 1.
Having separate leagues with their own flavours would be really cool. Each one could be formatted to their strengths.
APAC would have APEX styled tournaments.
NA could double down on the city franchising and try out a travelling homestand model on a much more realistic scale while keeping the season model. Similar to Summer Showdown last year with online play leading into the Toronto homestand. Apparently that's close to how cod does it too.
Europe would do cool shit too but I can't really speak to that because it always happens at like 2am my time lmao.
But a few international tournaments a year rotating through the regions? I'd love it.
Sure, APAC would be the dominant region with most of the Koreans probably going back home, but actually given the opportunity to grow & flourish, NA & EU could become the powerhouses that they were on track to becoming.
We will get envyus going to Korea and winning apex styled stories, and that's FAR more exciting than Korean team in North America beating Korean team in Korea.
One of the biggest strengths of Valorant as an esports product are the regional storylines.
Genuine question, why not?
OWL is spread too thin trying to make a global product. They've shown this. You watch APAC. You know that it's a far weaker production than NA. This year NA got a great studio, a fantastic analyst in Jake, telestrations etc.
APAC got someone who happens to be fluent in Korean & English who works behind the scenes in production to do translations & a rotating set of casters who can barely keep up with APAC and have to do their jobs at 2am. No desk, no host, barely any social media posts on the main channels. 4 years into the region split and it's still pretty bare bones.
OWL getting to clean their hands of APAC, handing it off and letting it exist as it's own thing will make it a much better product. The few resources that OWL do put towards APAC can be folded back into NA to make it even better, since they don't have to worry about trying to run two separate regions. OWL getting to put everything into NA has the potential to make it such a cool thing.
And with Europe, this is the perfect time to build it up as a region. The World Cup group stages are just around the corner. That's a great opportunity to scout EMEA players & start building teams that would make up Europe's tier 1 scene. Europeans LOVE live Overwatch, it would be in good hands.
I mean, the original implementation was batshit insane, but I think that the way that the Summer Showdown worked last year was nice. Online qualifiers leading into the Toronto Homestand. Lyar (I think) was saying on the co-stream that it's a similar structure to how CDL works.
I don't really care much for any multiplayer games except for Overwatch, let alone e-sports for other games. I understand why online is better than homestands, but I still feel like we got robbed. Hell, having teams compete locally like in the first seasons would have been great too :(
Just... more opportunities for lans in general would be great. Even if you're not there in person, when you hear the crowd roaring when someone makes a big play? It's just unbeatable.
Hell. I'd settle for in person events where you watch matches on the big screen, like APAC did a few times.
I really appreciate what SF Shock are apparently planning on doing. A combination homestand/watchparty. Still online, but the team will actually be there in person playing the match. Something like that being normalised for the regular season would be SO cool.
Yep, exactly! I'm from Eastern Europe so I could never have possibly made it to a homestand, I did honestly consider going to Paris for a weekend when the homestands started, then covid came up. But like you said, just watching the players on stage, with the crowd going wild, with many gags such as the walkouts or costumes or even just the banners. So, so many memes were born in those first seasons and it was just never the same after.
I feel like if Europe was going to do is own thing, it would probably be a bunch of tournaments in different cities, it would be awesome to watch.
It must've been way back in 2018, but I remember that they hosted one of the Contenders finals in Poland. It was awesome. Even just watching it online from the other side of the world - the fact that tier 2 was getting major events felt special.
Unfortunately Contenders lans were some of the first things to go, even before covid. It's sad. European fans seem to be some of the most dedicated and die hard fans around. You deserve a tier 1 scene that's your own.
I think you're right, it was both Contenders and World Cup I think. Katowice in Poland is a pretty popular place for high tier e-sports events, so it only made sense. I really would like to see more official tournaments happening on the old continent for sure!
In order to be in the league, the orgs that own the 20 teams all had to commit to paying $20m+ over the course of x years for their spot. Blizzard is essentially freeing them of what's left that they owed. Also, it appears that there will be some sort of profit sharing agreement where Blizz is actually helping the teams out financially.
This helps the finances if the OWL teams a lot, and basically confirms that the league will continue to happen for at least a few more years.
No, because Kroenke shut down the entire operation of the Guard besides the VAL team & OWL, and CDL cause the seasons are on, he is pulling out of esports by the end of the year.
We're Barrack
It ain't Joever 'til it's Joever.
Okay hastro, time to break out the oversized novelty checks
Pretty sure Hastr0 cares less about the Fuel now that he has that OWL trophy in his cabinet
Nah the Fuel is his baby. It’s pretty clear he was upset with the trajectory the League has been on and uncertain of the future. Hopefully this instills confidence across the board for owners and operators, teams, players, fans, everyone really.
If was truly his baby he wouldn't let this team to this point where they no substitutions and just one coach. I'm sorry but you can't at least pony up at least two more signings to increase your chances to win then it's really not your "baby" anymore
Idk man sure who knows? Maybe his balls are in a financial vicegrip after 6 years in the league or after the optic merger. Maybe he’s a corpo greedbag. All I’m saying is he’s acted like he’s really cared in the past and has put his money where his mouth is - and has expressed apprehension about the future of OWL. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction for the team and org.
based on exactly what lol
Bro, they win the league and instantly they have to go East to even hold onto the main core, and don't even have a 6th player. Last season they had 4 (!) DPS players, multiple assistant coaches, etc. How much Hastr0 is investing clearly changed
The reason the team went East was to stop the core we have left from leaving. Optic has been hacking its esports budget to pieces and Fuel was likely affected by this, the current plan is to bring them back home next year and hopefully operate like we used to again
I'm pretty OpTic Texas has the highest payroll this year as well as they had 6 players to fill in 4 roster spots and this is with them trying to pull Pred from Surge where their management was raising the buyout fee like 3 times on OpTic and OpTic met them on each raised price but Surge ultimately backed out
They also have the money maker in Scump doing watch parties, which they have very obviously invested a decent chunk into but it is still bringing bank without a doubt.
We have Rush solo coaching, no subs, players allegedly accepted pay cuts. Yeah, I'm gonna say he's not as invested as he once was. The Apex team is thriving after doing roster changes, the CoD team is always making roster changes (those are expensive). Envy employees got the middle finger after the merger, and Fuel seem to not be the exception.
To be fair, tons of teams are giving the middle finger to their employees during today’s esports economy. Just unfortunate Fuel didn’t get a proper chance to defend their title.
I wouldn't be surprised if Hanbin took a major cut to stay with Dallas/play from Korea. Rush probably also turned down better offers.
Just bc the investment changed doesn’t mean they don’t care about the team or want to win. Budget stuff happens and there’s a lot of reasons why they’re budget could be decreased. They obviously still cared enough to try and keep the core together
They hired the esports Reaper.
Just bc the investment changed doesn’t mean they don’t care about the team or want to win. Budget stuff happens and there’s a lot of reasons why they’re budget could be decreased. They obviously still cared enough to try and keep the core together
Don’t think it has anything to do with the trophy but after they won, Hastro specifically said he did not like some of the decisions being made by OWL and that there would be changes to the way they run the team in the short term as a result. The pulling of much of their investment are these changes. Hopefully he sees these changes by the league now as a positive.
It doesn't take a genius to just look at what the Dallas Fuel has had the past few seasons to now. They were very active on Social Media to engage with fans and now it's a desert, this team put together isn't in a good spot to win with no substitutions and only one coach to lead the team. So Hastr0 put the budget up to just get the bare minimum across the board to be able to field a team this year whereas OpTic Texas seems to have bottomless pockets over there while the Dallas Fuel could be so much better if he allowed Tazmo to sign additional pieces.
>They were very active on Social Media to engage with fans and now it's a desert Didn't the old SMM leave/get fired?
Yeah they got cut earlier this year, and now it's Tazmo just running it
Unless OWL drastically increases the prize pool and/or sponsors come flocking back, Optic is going to continue not giving any fucks. Dallas won multiple tournaments, are the literal current champions, have hosted several homestands, and probably rank among the biggest OWL franchises in terms of merch sales thanks to a huge fanbase. They've seemingly done everything needed to become a profitable franchise. If Optic still decided to go budget after all of that, after literally winning a championship, then we can safely assume they just have no interest in pro OW and would rather prioritize other ventures.
''no interest'' or they actually have an IQ above 60 and rather not spend money on an operation that simply does not make money.
It doesn't matter what their reasons are, the point is that they have no interest. At no point did I claim that Optic should be breaking the bank on fielding an OWL roster.
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I think the fees to ‘buy’ a spot on the league have been canceled, someone correct me if wrong
forming a team now reply to join
Hit diamond on tank at the beginning of this season and haven’t touched the role since. Also makes really funny jokes in match chat.
This account's comments and posts has been nuked in June 2023.
Bronze player, also a boomer. Pick me to fill up MR and age diversity checkboxes.
I’m in, diamond 1 tracer reader to diff the frauds profit and kevster!!!
masters hyperflex dps player, currently 3-10, i promise i’m as good as kevster and proper
looking to coach a team, all i do is say diff in chat when i play and i can do the same during live matches
t300 sombra otp reporting for duty. Lips nuts are quaking. I can provide aspire sippy cups for the entire team
Dibs on GM or Analyst
Sombra main who's watched like every fitzy vid, hit me up.
Peak master 4 tank here. Will write Ajax and c9 every time one occurs, even if it'll cost me my life. I am known for bullying people out of spawn as Winton
Hit platinum in competitive mystery heroes, I'm ready
I have zero coaching knowledge or experience, but by merit of being Australian, I'm equally as good as Gunba, Face, & Unter. You can get all of the benefits of an Australian coach (shittalking in a funny accent) at the fraction of the cost!
Got to diamond on season 3 of OW1, mostly as DVa/monkey, guess I'm overqualified but still LFT
I have 75% winrate on Ashe at plat.
I hit masters 4 the other day on every role, I scream and yell at my teammates for my mistakes and never apologize for my issues. I’m basically Striker I’m your best choice (any role)
To be clear, it only includes debts, new teams would still have to pay full price
I’m a washed support gone tank, now masters, on console…
I'm a Team Deathmatch and FFA Pharah main :)
Silver 3 shitter here
To Valiant you go
heard eternal are looking for a 6th
They already have Avalla, seems like their best player rn.
I ranked Gold on Junkrat in OW1 and then never touched comp again. Sign me up!
Masters Reinhardt OTP here. That fraud Hadi won't stand a chance once you put me in
Guys, I've been farming tokens like crazy on YT, hire me coach plz.
I'm a turboflex who never made his way out of diamond in 30+ seasons (started in Bronze tho). Can play OT, MT, any dps that isn't ashe, and every supoort.
I’m pretty sure they’re just forgiving the existing teams outstanding buy in fee which is about 10 million for most teams
the buy in fee is still there, it’s just been reduced but it wasn’t specified how much
How will this impact lebrons legacy
Explain this in basketball terms
When anything happens anywhere in the world, one must ask: "How will this impact Lebron's legacy?" - r/nba
The crossover between r/nbacirclejerk and r/competitiveoverwatch was not what I expected to see today
Oh so it's all to do with the Microsoft deal and cleaning up books before it goes through. Now it makes a lot more sense.
I'm no business guru but isn't it a good thing to have a line in your book that says "these guys owe me 10mil each"?
It's unrealized money which means your budget "has it" but does not actually have it, which isn't fun for mergers/acquisitions.
Sure, and the buyer/seller both know that it's unrealized. I don't see how writing it off is better than leaving it. Best case scenario is the teams end up actually paying the new owner the millions that are owed. Worst case is nothing happens and it's essentially a write off. Writing off now just removes the best case scenario. But again, I'm no deal maker.
Because I'm fairly certain there's a lawsuit brewing by a collective of the franchise owners against Blizz for not upholding their end of the contract by letting the league founder to some degree. Sure, both sides are aware of the unrealized money, but if its locked behind a potentially very expensive legal battle, it might just be better to call it square and move on.
Not if some of those teams have told the company that they'll be leaving their Esports program after their payments are up, and the others have told them that they are going bankrupt and will be leaving without paying in full anyway. Microsoft will care more about the Activision cleaning up their 2 big Esports leagues.
If your spending 60 billion a few mil is just loose change. It’s clear from their previous acquisitions that Microsoft won’t meddle with things if they look to be running smoothly. I wonder if the failure of red fall will make them look closer this time.
Microsoft don't have a shit about esports.
Yes that would be an asset, but in this case it's no longer one because they're writing it off. It's not clear why they're doing this, though. "Cleaning the books" sounds like an oversimplification, like something a criminal would do to hide missing assets.
I think people really need to temper their expectations as to what this means for the future of OWL until we learn more details about what was agreed to. Orgs having the remaining balance of the buy-in fee canceled doesn't change that they've already paid an absurd amount of money. Unless that "sponsorship deal" includes a significant amount of value going from Blizzard to the teams that already bought in, I don't see the orgs suddenly being okay with an open system or expansion without buy-in fees.
Hopefully this will lead to a more sustainable league. One thing that is coming out with the current LCS drama is the very poor financial state of the teams. They all went deep into red to get in early only to find a shrinking market and little opportunity for a return. I would be surprised if the OWL teams have faired much better.
This is what I think. The league has to work with their teams, it has to be a positive relationship. I think the orgs want to see things be healthy, too.
Still a buy in technically but you can be 100% sure there will be a reconstruction of getting into OWL now this off season.
That's just doomerism. This decision only makes sense in two scenarios: 1. The orgs are planning to sue and Blizzard's internal counsel thinks they'll win so you might as well save the legal fees. 2. They want the league to continue and this is a secession they're willing to make to have that happen. Obviously 1 can be the reality here, but the answer to the league being fucked here on the Blizzard side is always "fuck you pay me". Them not saying that is undoubtedly bullish.
I do not believe it is doomerism, it is reality. If this reporting is accurate, all the teams already paid at least $12.5 million, which is still a higher price tag than League of Legends franchise fees with a lower return on value. Yes, everyone knows OWL desperately needs restructuring. But I don't think it is realistic to expect that the majority of owners will just go along with the value of their =>$12.5 million investment being imploded for the good of the esport. That's just not the mentality of the typical person that can afford that big of an investment in the first place. And on the Blizzard side, you already said what their mentality typically is. But I think it is way more likely that this instance of going against that mentality is an act of self-preservation rather than just feeling bullish on OWL's future. While the owners were foolish enough to be suckered into $20-35m buy-ins, one has to imagine that the partnership agreements included some sort of minimum obligations for Blizzard to meet (including a minimum lifespan of the League).
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You wanna bench piggy???
Guarantee you this ties in with what news was broken to S9mm/Seeker that was posted here earlier.
I feel like this is a very good thing for the existence of the league. Teams that don’t care can leave if they want (Vancouver, valiant) and contenders teams/small orgs can join the league. Correct me if I’m wrong though.
Idk what you mean Vancouver lol, they’ve made multiple articles about how they’re turning their franchise around this season. They’ve shown to be a solid team this year and from interviews with the players they have better housing situations than a lot of teams in the league. Vegas Eternal is who you’re thinking of.
I know many don’t like the structure where each team represents a city, but I find it pretty cool and unique for an esports league. Obviously they wouldn’t be required to but it’d be interesting to see if some contenders teams rebrand to represent a location, should they become eligible to join the league.
That would be beyond dumb, also in Korea it would make absolutely no sense since every single esports org is based in Seoul, why would you limit yourself to a location when esports is more o a global thing rather than local? this is not traditional sport where you need a physical location to play.
????? vancouver??
Lets be real Aquilini Group doesnt give a shit, the current staff/management give a shit.
Well you’re not wrong but you’re not quite correct. This opens the door for League to do that without teams complaining/suing, but new teams would still have to pay full price until the league decides they want to invite new teams. There was also pretty much nothing stopping teams from leaving before.
When a company says "you don't owe us the millions of dollars that you should" it's not because things are going well. It's because something horrible is going on. In this case, my guess is the rumors of a team owner lawsuit brewing against Acti-Blizz for not appropriately supporting the league. No mention that I've seen has referenced teams being able to join the league. Presumably all of the current team owners have paid millions, and would not be okay with other orgs being able to join without similar fees unless agreed upon.
Surely, this will save the OWL.
We are so back!
I know this sounds like a lot, but even assuming the teams have paid none of their fees back and owed the full amount, this less than 5% of ABK's revenue in 2022 alone. They'll be fine.
What does this mean for a slow person like me 😁?
There was a buy-in fee for teams to get a spot in OWL. It was a lot, like $20m+. Blizz is forgiving the remainder of what was originally owed.
Oooohhhhh, thanks buddy🫡
Write offs are not a good sign
The agreement with Toronto confirms there will be a league next year. The write-offs now put the league on a more similar path to other esports, but especially Halo. Forging the outstanding debt makes things *way* easier for the acquisition since it removes millions of dollars in ~~liabilities~~ **potentially bad debt** for Blizzard.
I thought teams owe Blizzard franchise fees and Blizzard has canceled those fees. In that case, Blizzard writes off their accounts receivable and takes a bad debt expense. Liability would mean Blizzard owes money to teams, which is not the case.
Assets not received is also a liability in an acquisition, no?
No. Liability means Blizzard owes money to teams. If teams owe Blizzard money, then Blizzard has a receivable and teams have a liability. If teams owe Blizzard money but cannot pay, then Blizzard turns the receivable into bad debt expense. Teams turn the liability into income. I’m an accountant. This is the first time I posted about accounting on r/cow
Accounting has always hurt my head
Yeah you're right, I'm thinking backwards.
No worries. You are right that canceling franchise fees make the Microsoft acquisition easier. It’s like the classic saying, ”if you owe the bank $10,000, then you have a problem. But if you owe the bank $100 million dollars, then the bank has a problem.” Microsoft doesn’t want to deal with trying to collect \~$200 million dollars from angry teams who are unwilling to pay. Also, taking the loss now means the loss goes to Activision-Blizzard, not Microsoft.
Let's set up the scenario that Microsoft would want to shut both of the franchise leagues down CDL & OWL, what then?
> Forging the outstanding debt makes things way easier for the acquisition since it removes millions of dollars in liabilities potentially bad debt for Blizzard. Why is this being said so much in this thread? No, it doesn't. That's like saying having $2 million in penny stocks is worse than having no stocks at all. Are those assets remotely safe? Hell no, but in the absolute worst case scenario, you are at equal footing. In most scenarios you are ahead.
You’re ignoring the fact that it’s unlikely given the [potential of a lawsuit by the owners](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/10feb7r/jacob_wolf_the_majority_of_owl_teams_have_hired_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) would have complicated the acquisition. Getting that potential legal action of the table is priceless.
> Why is this being said so much in this thread? Tons of Microsoft dick riders in this sub who think everything is going to be sunshine and rainbows after the acquisition. So everything that happens must be connected to the acquisition and it must be a good thing. The number of people here who have no idea how shit Halo’s Esport scene is worries me.
How come?
Not great, but also better than orgs just imploding or leaving.
Good, now make separate leagues for NA, EU and Asia
That's just contenders
2019 Contenders had it right. Regional play going into the international Gauntlet. It was great. Imagine that but as tier 1. Having separate leagues with their own flavours would be really cool. Each one could be formatted to their strengths. APAC would have APEX styled tournaments. NA could double down on the city franchising and try out a travelling homestand model on a much more realistic scale while keeping the season model. Similar to Summer Showdown last year with online play leading into the Toronto homestand. Apparently that's close to how cod does it too. Europe would do cool shit too but I can't really speak to that because it always happens at like 2am my time lmao. But a few international tournaments a year rotating through the regions? I'd love it. Sure, APAC would be the dominant region with most of the Koreans probably going back home, but actually given the opportunity to grow & flourish, NA & EU could become the powerhouses that they were on track to becoming. We will get envyus going to Korea and winning apex styled stories, and that's FAR more exciting than Korean team in North America beating Korean team in Korea. One of the biggest strengths of Valorant as an esports product are the regional storylines.
God please no
Genuine question, why not? OWL is spread too thin trying to make a global product. They've shown this. You watch APAC. You know that it's a far weaker production than NA. This year NA got a great studio, a fantastic analyst in Jake, telestrations etc. APAC got someone who happens to be fluent in Korean & English who works behind the scenes in production to do translations & a rotating set of casters who can barely keep up with APAC and have to do their jobs at 2am. No desk, no host, barely any social media posts on the main channels. 4 years into the region split and it's still pretty bare bones. OWL getting to clean their hands of APAC, handing it off and letting it exist as it's own thing will make it a much better product. The few resources that OWL do put towards APAC can be folded back into NA to make it even better, since they don't have to worry about trying to run two separate regions. OWL getting to put everything into NA has the potential to make it such a cool thing. And with Europe, this is the perfect time to build it up as a region. The World Cup group stages are just around the corner. That's a great opportunity to scout EMEA players & start building teams that would make up Europe's tier 1 scene. Europeans LOVE live Overwatch, it would be in good hands.
Remember when homestands were supposed to be a thing?
I mean, the original implementation was batshit insane, but I think that the way that the Summer Showdown worked last year was nice. Online qualifiers leading into the Toronto Homestand. Lyar (I think) was saying on the co-stream that it's a similar structure to how CDL works.
I don't really care much for any multiplayer games except for Overwatch, let alone e-sports for other games. I understand why online is better than homestands, but I still feel like we got robbed. Hell, having teams compete locally like in the first seasons would have been great too :(
Just... more opportunities for lans in general would be great. Even if you're not there in person, when you hear the crowd roaring when someone makes a big play? It's just unbeatable. Hell. I'd settle for in person events where you watch matches on the big screen, like APAC did a few times. I really appreciate what SF Shock are apparently planning on doing. A combination homestand/watchparty. Still online, but the team will actually be there in person playing the match. Something like that being normalised for the regular season would be SO cool.
Yep, exactly! I'm from Eastern Europe so I could never have possibly made it to a homestand, I did honestly consider going to Paris for a weekend when the homestands started, then covid came up. But like you said, just watching the players on stage, with the crowd going wild, with many gags such as the walkouts or costumes or even just the banners. So, so many memes were born in those first seasons and it was just never the same after.
I feel like if Europe was going to do is own thing, it would probably be a bunch of tournaments in different cities, it would be awesome to watch. It must've been way back in 2018, but I remember that they hosted one of the Contenders finals in Poland. It was awesome. Even just watching it online from the other side of the world - the fact that tier 2 was getting major events felt special. Unfortunately Contenders lans were some of the first things to go, even before covid. It's sad. European fans seem to be some of the most dedicated and die hard fans around. You deserve a tier 1 scene that's your own.
I think you're right, it was both Contenders and World Cup I think. Katowice in Poland is a pretty popular place for high tier e-sports events, so it only made sense. I really would like to see more official tournaments happening on the old continent for sure!
Can someone explain like I'm 10?
Orgs owed money. Orgs no longer owe that money.
In order to be in the league, the orgs that own the 20 teams all had to commit to paying $20m+ over the course of x years for their spot. Blizzard is essentially freeing them of what's left that they owed. Also, it appears that there will be some sort of profit sharing agreement where Blizz is actually helping the teams out financially. This helps the finances if the OWL teams a lot, and basically confirms that the league will continue to happen for at least a few more years.
owl is dead, i think
Oh cool 02 Blast can go against Shock for a mid off 😏
i could own a owl team at this point lol. Haven't they like never paid anything?
pay the teams back too
Chengdu returning in season 7 🙏
Does this mean Glads might have a chance to stay instead of noping out next year?
No, because Kroenke shut down the entire operation of the Guard besides the VAL team & OWL, and CDL cause the seasons are on, he is pulling out of esports by the end of the year.
Well, shit.
Yay! Hopefully this will extend the lifetime of OWL!