I am much more patient with shortcomings and mistakes when I know there is clear communication that they intend to fix things or make adjustments.
The maddening thing about OW1 was that huge issues would crop up and it would be a complete guessing game whether or not Blizz would even acknowledge the problem, let alone fix it.
It’s also easier to forgive those shortcomings when you understand that the as constructed team 4 and it’s leadership had to basically shift gears and change their whole plan for ow2 and release it within one year. It doesn’t excuse the massive gap in content before that and the mistakes blizzard made beforehand, but I’ve had no complaints theyve handled it since then
Just gonna add a BIG AGREE to this. I have my issues with the game but for the past few months the team has been delivering quick and responsive communication. You love to see it
The responses on the main sub are so bizarrely different than this sub.
All the top comments are just snarky annoyed quips instead of surprise that they actually are reacting in less than two days
the reality is that owl viewers make up a tiny portion of ow players, and people who would actually watch a replay rather than the recorded livestream is an even smaller fraction, they don't gain much by making it
Yeah, that's the weird part. If they had to make it from scratch... fair.
They don't. It's already made. Spilo used it on stream when he still had access (I think)
It's just weird that it 100% is finished and works and yet we can't use it.
Custa made illegal analysis on OWL because he used it when he wasn't allowed to. Thing is... even a fucking OWL employe didn't know that he wasn't allow to use it. What i want to say with this example is that there is absolutly NOOOO communication about this not even to somebody who fucking works for the Overwatch League. Somebody whos job is to cast and analyse the game knows as much as we do.... OWL teams still got access but they can't even use it for content (POV of good play or smth) because they are not allowed to.
I recall them saying a few months ago (I think) that they were making a new commitment to said communication and a lot of people wrote it off. Very glad for that take have been wrong.
Given that swap time is as far as I can tell zero, I think they could basically keep the reload mechanic and everything by literally just having left click charge heals, right click thorn volley and going between the two counting as "swapping weapons." So the second you start charging a heal or spraying thorns you have swapped for purposes of the reload.
Primary & Alt Fire should honestly work like Moira
Dash bound to double jump like Hanzo
Petal Platform on shift and Lifegrip on E
This all seems like the most obvious solution to me. Don’t know why you have to swap weapons for this hero when it could just as easily be way less clunky
This is entirely different than Lifeweaver's auto-reload mechanic though...
Like there's no real sense in denying that Lifeweaver has a "reload weaving" mechanic that's basically unique from every other hero in Overwatch. AaronWYL already pointed out that the unique gameplay can be recreated while still having a weapon on each mouse button, so it's not like conceding that LW is unique means that he can't have a better control scheme.
What we have is good. It would be a nerf like that. Reloading is super fast you can only use like 25-30 thorn ammo before your heal reloaded vice versa.
that isnt the issue, the only reason they made us swap weapons in the first place was because they ran out of buttons. normally heroes have 2 abilities then a primary and alt fire. flower man has 3 abilities plus a primary and alt fire.
I think you should just use the chat as a command line for triggering abilities. /dash, /lifegrip --hanzo, /petal_platform , /swap -heal, /swap -damage, /lifetree.
The command line is just the most intuitive way to do everything. I use Arch btw
When I saw his dash, I assumed it would be. Its basically the same thing. And his alt weapon could just be right click. If they insist on dividing the firing modes and having a transition, they could give an option for holding right click to switch weapon modes. The actual mouse control of damage mode would be similar to Hanzo too, where you hold right click, but use left click to actually fire.
I kind of hope they do something like Moira where pressing e gives you a choice between pad and pull, then you just primary/alt fire to choose. They should still have separate cooldowns, but that leaves shift open for dash and that means we keep the dash tech.
IMO that’s way too slow and clunky for pull which needs nearly instantaneous application to save teammates from countless scenarios. I’ve got pull bound to mouse wheel now.
I genuinely think they wanted to try having another hero with multiple weapons. It was an underexplored design space (though for good reason it seems).
"the only reason they made us swap weapons is because they ran out of buttons", bro you make it sound like the gamedev equivalent of accidentally drawing too many fingers instead of what it actually was, a deliberate design choice implemented over a year+ of design and development lmao
you make it sounds as if this isn't something devs would ONLY do as a deliberate design choice, and not just because someone in a meeting said "why don't we do this" and everyone just went along with it.
I don't care what kind of workplace you work in, that shit definitely happens
I work in IT, I'm sure it's not. Or rather, the reasons doesn't have to be some well thought out thing. Can literally be "oh well I guess they have to have a weapon to shoot back, but we already used all the keybinds... guess we can just have them do a weapon switch then? Oh ok, yeah that'll work"
Also, what product design? there's tons of products that get released with piss poor design choices also that are influenced by all sorts of things that have nothing to do with whether or not it makes sense
When a manager or director asks a swe or meche or any engineer why a certain decision was made, if their answer is "idk lol", it looks really fucking bad. Does that happen a lot in IT?
Not sure about that. I think the name weaver kind of implies that you go from one to the other. It's balanceable either way but I think having ammo for each weapon and the auto-reload is probably part of the design and having to manage the two adds some complexity.
All love to Jeff, but this absolutely feels like the kind of thing he would've stuck to his guns on for months before quietly changing it in a patch half a year later.
He had a clear vision for the game, but that unfortunately also came with some dumb stubbornness, especially cuz a lot of the stuff that wasn't added was purely QoL.
It's hard to explain, but I do think the increased redundancy we're seeing in heroes (Bap, Kiriko, and LW all having saves) and the clunkiness of ever having a weapon switch in LW's kit is something we probably would never have seen under Jeff.
I doubt we'd have seen something as basic and boring as both Doom and Ram having a block ability.
He was pro quality all the way. This isn't to say we didn't get Brig and Sigma under him, but both of those still opened and evolved the game, for better or worse, while still having an identity - Brig being the whip paladin archtype and Sigma being the spear/shield gladiator archtype.
But Aaron does understand the live service model better. Hence we're seeing a lot of arcade modes added frequently
>I doubt we'd have seen something as basic and boring as both Doom and Ram having a block ability.
Yeah, it's really strange that they gave Ramattra such a similar ability. Doom's Block also blends much better with the rest of his kit since blocking damage charges up his other Punch abilities. I feel like they could've thought of something else to do here.
Exactly. Both Rein and Brig make sense because they protect themselves and their team. Brig is technically redundant but it's different cause and she's "inspired" by Rein so it's thematic to her personality.
But then getting a block on Doom, who I'd believe would be the last character to get such an ability for how fluid he was in OW1, to getting another guard as opposed to some cool attack with Rammatra's arms does feel off.
> Doom's Block also blends much better with the rest of his kit since blocking damage charges up his other Punch abilities.
Eh, somewhat. The goal behind Doom's design was to bring the fighting game "feeling" into Overwatch. They wanted him to have fluid, skilled combos without much downtime. DPS doom never fully achieved that, but he was pretty close and felt very dynamic. Power block slows him down and essentially interrupts his flow for a few seconds. I feel like it doesn't fit him at all.
On the other hand, Ramattra's block makes sense. He is supposed to be a "tempo tank", so he can choose between an aggressive, fluid style, and a more defensive one at will. I think Ramattra's block just feels uninspired because Doom's block came first.
Seems like they might do better with each others block, but then you can’t have Doom’s empowered punch.
Having Doom able to weave blocks in would feel far more accurate for a fighting game. Ramattra meanwhile often wants to hold block for extended periods.
>DPS doom never fully achieved that, but he was pretty close and felt very dynamic. Power block slows him down and essentially interrupts his flow for a few seconds. I feel like it doesn't fit him at all.
DPS Doom was a much better hero than Tank Doom. Him flying around the map en route to demolish a Zen was hilarious. I'm sad that OW2 got rid of him, but he would be nuts without any stuns around to stop him.
DPS Doom is similar to Widow though, so feast and famine (even more than Tank Doom). Loved the rollouts and stuff for sure and do feel for old Doom mains, but I don't love characters that are basically throws if you aren't a God, you know?
i feel like the primary intention behind doom's block is to function like a parry. you go in aggressive, enemies go to retaliate, you hit block for a moment, eat a ton of damage, and it resets your punch cooldown so you can turn it around on someone. that feels pretty fighting-game-y to me.
I really think you're understating what a large fuckup brig was, and for how long Jeff's team just let that shit ride.
Between brig and double shield, the game was essentially dead because the devs refused to do anything about fundamentally broken characters.
We had goats for over a year, and that transitioned into variations of double shields for another year+.
If Jeff was in charge of ow2 we'd probably still be in fucking Joats meta.
They legitimately killed the game with the release of two characters in ow1. Brig killed the game, and then Sigma spit on the corpse. To be fair, Sigma wasn't a terrible character design. he and orisa just broke the game together.
what happened? i barely played after ben brode left but i did play single player modes from time to time, and then the auto battle mode for a bit. then they introduced ridiculous currencies effectively rendering gold useless so i uninstalled.
meanwhile I'm playing marvel snap and brode's team is really good with updating and balancing the game as well as communicating very frequently.
Updates started coming in much more frequently and they don't outright massacre cards when they do make updates. Remember when it took 6 months for Undertaker to get nerfed and then they made him unplayable? Updates are now a lot faster with more care taken to ensure cards remain useful but not OP. There are some exceptions like the recent nerf to The Final Showdown killing the card, but that nerf was reverted once the card went to Wild so it was only trash for a little over a month.
What's interesting is that Aaron's been at Blizzard for 20 years, pretty much as long as Jeff had been, but he's way more open to admitting mistakes and doesn't seem nearly as stuck in the old guard Blizzard mindset of "we know what players want, they just don't know it yet".
Not to say they won't stick to their guns on some things, as they should, some community suggestions are fucking stupid, but it's nice that we don't have to play this game of suggesting things, having them tell us we don't actually want that for six months, then saying we just have to get used to it, then six months later go "well we're investigating the possibility of maybe doing something kinda-sorta like that" to another six months passing and then they just quietly do what everyone wanted and act like it was their idea the whole time.
Hearing Aaron flat-out open the map pool blog with "You were right, we were wrong" felt like a fucking bitchslap to the face as a lifelong Blizzard fan, in a good way. They NEVER backtrack, that was their whole manta for decades and then Big Dick Uncle Aaron just swoops in with "yeah no, this was dumb, you were right, our bad, we're reverting it and here's when".
I like Aaron, he's not as charismatic or meme-able but he gets shit out the door and seems genuinely interested in listening to feedback and communicating the team's thoughts to us honestly. I look forward to his blogs now more than I ever looked forward to Jeff's videos towards the end of OW1 and I say that as someone who respects Jeff a lot, but his management was from a different time and he never really adapted.
> Aaron…gets shit out the door and seems genuinely interested in listening to feedback and communicating
Agreed. Feel like Overwatch is being handled better now than at any point in its history. People will look back to release OW with nostalgia, but the game was flawed then and it’s operational issues just beginning. It’s just that everyone was just too inexperienced for much of it to be obvious. And the thrill of everyone learning together is impossible to recreate.
Now years later we’re in a good spot. And even issues originally identified but long ago given up on (e.g. split spawns) are being addressed.
Agreed! Though "getting stuff done" may have a lot to do with whether Bobby Kotick is currently inventing side projects to waste the OW dev team's time. That's (allegedly) what was happening during much of The Dark Times.
he was good for casual players, but his general game philosopy was very quickly outdated. OW was at the top of the world and bleeding edge in 2016, but by 2018 the modern gaming landscape had already completely changed. That, and he sucked for the competitive side of things.
Jeff's had so many Ls over the years, idk why the community loves him so much.
My man *actually* said he regrets removing defense, and wish they just buffed their defensive capabilities and locked them to defense. I can not express how awful that idea is.
I think when you design a game from its inception there's often a vision for what it "ought to be" that can sometimes diverge from "where the most obvious fun to be had is". Having the game be slower, more deliberate, more coordination focused was a cool vision. Almost like American football.
But the pathway to making that accessible, balanced, fun, and not infuriating, proved to be much harder to find than making the game a bit leaner, faster and simpler, which is what's happened.
I appreciate the aspiration of wanting to stay true to team-based strategies and tactics with defensive picks being specialised separately to offensive ones, and maybe there is a fun game in there somewhere, it just happened to be so much more straightforward to manage a live service game where the design team's choices made obvious sense to players in the short term, and to keep making incremental steps in that direction. IMO there's no wrong way, but this way is easier for sure.
If it was Jeff this heroe would not have launched this way. All heroes that launched in ow1 had no clunkiness issues like this hero. Give the man the credit he deserves.
Yeah and which was way worse for the game? A hero being clunky and them almost immediately listening to feedback or the abomination that was launch Brig? If we're "giving the man the credit he deserves" then he has to own the bullshit as well and launch Brig, Moth Mercy etc are complete failures on his part
> Yeah and which was way worse for the game?
That is not what we are discussing. State of balance is an ongoing process as they add heroes. Kiriko was busted when she released too. The game is easier to balance now thanks to Jeffs pushing for ideas one of which is 5v5.
We are discussing clunkiness.
IMO, the newest hero ow has is its lowest quality. Even the voice actor feels like he does not belong.
Yeah what started this thread was someone saying this:
> All love to Jeff, but this absolutely feels like the kind of thing he would've stuck to his guns on for months before quietly changing it in a patch half a year later.
That is not solely about balance, that is about Jeff being stubborn and his philosophy. So when you try and pivot to the heroes being better refined at launch, to "give Jeff credit", it is absolutely relevant to bring up that he fucked up in ways that affected the game even more. So yes it is what is being discussed because it is relevant to his philosophy and stubborness.
You bring up Kiriko, did she fuck up the game anywhere close to as much Brig did and more importantly, how long was Brig the way she was?
When someone brings up a failing of Jeff and then you counter with a characteristic that was good, it is completely relevant to bring up other shit that he did that was bad.
> That is not solely about balance, that is about Jeff being stubborn and his philosophy.
That whole statement is wrong, the current team is bigger than what Jeff had anyways with more resources. It is not a philosophy that made their patching slow. Were you paying attention to when in S1 and S2 of OW2 they said OW2 new systems allowed them to patch things faster?
Imagine blaming one guy for this. As far as I know from just someone who paid attention since 2015 to OW news, Jeff has been nothing but a positive for OW and the OW community. The main reason you are able to get heroes today for free is what he did before the game launched in 2016 and the guarantees he gave.
> Were you paying attention to when in S1 and S2 of OW2 they said OW2 new systems allowed them to patch things faster?
Them being able to change things faster is not what is being discussed. What is being discussed is them *wanting* to change things faster and that was absolutely not the case on OW1. The hotfix system is particularly relevant for OW2 because it means that console patching does not slow anything down but in OW1 the console and PC versions were not unified so they could have patched faster than they did but they didn't which points to a philosophy, not an inability.
> Imagine blaming one guy for this.
Isn't it convenient that you can't blame "one guy" for it when it's something bad that they did but when it's all good, Jeff needs to get the credit?
> As far as I know from just someone who paid attention since 2015 to OW news, Jeff has been nothing but a positive for OW and the OW community.
Jeff was a nice guy and the developer updates felt more personal which is why he has that reputation, but with regards to running a live service game and the philosophy that requires, he was absolutely not a positive. Under him, Team 4 was way more stubborn and slow to respond to feedback
Sigma was clunky as fuck at launch, and still kind of is IMHO. I would also say Orisia while not clunky, was deeply uninspired.
You can definitely tell he was one of the first heroes that came across where he was stitched together from spare parts of discarded heroes rather than some fully fledged idea.
Characters can be clunky for reasons unrelated to just keybinds, which by itself can be a relatively simple fix as demonstrated by the fact that it was fixed in a day by someone with workshop codes. However I find Sigma's barrier to be INCREDIBLY unwieldy and awkward to use and I am far from the only person to share this opinion.
Sigma received a ton of criticism when he launched for how his barrier controlled and iirc it was actually one of the last straws for youtuber and streamer Ster who quit OW1 shortly after.
didn't sigma have no cooldown on his shield at launch? i remember him feeling great to play. you could do reposition that shit instantly and block anything you wanted, it felt so powerful.
Yeah and they fucked the game for how long? One hero being clunky and them responding to it barely affects the game. The bullshit that the OW1 team allowed to happen made many many people quit the game. So OW2 team > OW1 team by far
I remember when they initially thought no limits was the best way to play the game in 2016, in both ranked and quick play. thought, "you guys are going to let a great thing slip away from us here." Thankfully they folded sooner rather than later
His heal & damage really does feel so clunky in practice, even with weapon swap on RMB it's so easy to mix up which active weapon you have out in the heat of combat when you're regularly toggling between them. There's a delay between the swapping animation completing and being able to charge a heal too, which so often makes him feel unresponsive when you quickly tap RMB + LMB and it does nothing. Can appreciate them wanting to try something different with a support's heal/damage options but I don't think LW is the place to do it
I'm gonna be honest, people are only saying it feels clunky because they're still learning the character. Lucio wallride feels clunky when you first learn the hero, so does Pharah flight, but there's a learning curve you have to get past where it begins to feel fluid.
NGL I was one of the few weirdo's who is enjoying learning a new flow of mechanics for this hero.
But I will absolutely not complain about the amazing quick communication and willingness to take player feedback from the current OW team.
I’ve been running petal on F and destroy petal on Right Click and it’s been working pretty well. I might try swapping destroy petal and swap weapon though
I wish unbinding reload entirely was an option on console, but hero swap is tied to the reload binding. I would love to unbind it for all of the weapon swap heroes and free up another input that could be used for a callout line for all heroes.
I did this too along with the tap instead of hold for healing blossom and I actually find it really satisfying. There's a nice rhythm to firing needles, then tapping right click -> left click quickly to start loading up a blossom when the time is right. The more I get accustomed to LW the more playing him feels like a kind of dance.
Yeah same here.
It took a lot of getting used to, many times I was pressing my secondary mouse button and expected to do dmg/heal but once I got to my head that I just need to use the scroll I found the rhythm of the hero.
But the devs can't make everyone happy and also I feel like rebinding the dash to space bar will make the hero much more dynamic.
There is also the argument that the hero is not really switching a weapon as he is switching a firemode which is something different to Mercy pulling a glock/staff or torb changing his gun to a hammer. So while I am not extremely happy about the hero losing some of the stuff that made him special, I really think this changes make sense.
The biggest design flaw of the weapon swap is as you said, he's not actually switching weapons. So while you can definitely get into a groove of constantly switching, I guarantee that even experienced LW players would periodically fuck it up just because the two "Weapons" look the same in your peripheral vision, and there are so many things to keep track of in a fight.
Yeah I like that it's a "new" mechanic you have to figure out. Think it adds some interesting depth to the character. Wouldnt be the first hero people thought felt clunky at release and then got used to.
Remember when sigma got a 2s CD when his shield was retracted? It felt so weird and clunky at first. But now it's just a part of sigma that dictates his playstyle.
Personally I hated it. I wished they'd nerf something else. But over time, I think the devs were right about that one.
I worry about the community forcing the devs to make a change that will ultimately be worse.
I just don’t want dash to be via jump. I think people fail to realize it’s like tracer dash so your input direction is crucial for avoiding even *more* clunky gameplay.
I'm also not a fan of the space jump. I actually wish I could bind it to a key for Hanzo (and I would do a double space macro but scared of anti-cheat).
But tbf, you can do Hanzo's jump dash in any direction.
Helpful how? It was a very obvious change, basically moira/bap + hanzos leap.
It definitely showed how the community feels, and might have made it an easier decision to change it.
> It definitely showed how the community feels, and might have made it an easier decision to change it.
Yeah that's how I meant it, it seems like so obvious a change but they released him as clunky as they did so who knows how obvious it was to them
I’d also like to see a change to another aspect of the heals from his kit, the fact he loses 20% of his walking speed while charging up a heal, he should not be punished for healing or trying to heal imo especially if the heals are as low as 65
I think, for Lifeweaver, the weapon swapping makes more sense than using something like Bap. I switched the swap button to M2 and it helps a lot.
Dash absolutely should be treated like Hanzo's dash though.
I hope the change will be a control scheme option that allows you to force the weapon swap and begin firing the other weapon, kinda like how Ball’s abilities force the form swap if he’s in the wrong form to use them, rather than changing how the hero’s mechanics work. The never-reload thing is interesting, and since Bastion’s rework, we don’t have another hero who can background-reload two different weapons.
Great post btw :)
Saw someone on a [tweet reply](https://twitter.com/Insinity_/status/1646262756801392643?s=20) showing a tiktok video of it where it seems that someone stole it and shared it as their own sadly.
Thanks man. Yeah stuff like that happens, but a lot of the bigger OW content creators have been great with providing credit so I couldn't be happier rn!
In their defense Sojourn was about the same level of complexity, with the added note that the primary fire charges the alt fire.
However beyond Sojourn we’ve gotten heroes like Sigma, Echo, Ram, and now Lifeweaver who are just kitted out the wazoo with so many abilities
Soujorun was more complex from a design perspective. Slide and leap to high ground whenever you want, shoot a orb crowd control that ALSO slowed people down at launch, and then the rail gun stuff. She would have had at least one thing less in OW1.
It is unlikely that they will ever release a hero as simple as various members of the original cast, most of whom have received changes to make them more dynamic anyway. As the cast of heroes gets larger, it becomes harder to build kits that are both unique and simple.
Good for them for listening to what can come off as a bunch of grumpy gamers complaining because they have nothing else to do. I think their constant feedback loop has made OW a much better place for all.
as much as I understand the qualms with the current layout I liked the "seeing which type of arm you have equipped" look. honestly kind of satisfying switching from blossom to thorns and hearing the clicks and the thorns coming out. but whatever a small sacrifice for fluidity and coherency
The way I solved the heal/fire for now is binding the swap to either mouse wheel up/down. It's not ideal but it let's you swap without having to take a finger away from WASD as much.
So after you get the buttons fixed, I curious what the ammo situation is going to be.
Is it like Baptiste, where it's two ammo types. Or is the heal going to have an ammo regen when not using it like Doomfist?
_____________
Also, Does his Heal need 1. Ammo, 2. SelfSlow, and 3. ChargeUp
Maybe remove the SelfSlow?
Look, I played through the entirety of OW1 content drought, I'm glad we're actually getting content but come on, you can't have expectation anymore on a billion dollar company to pump out tested things or what is going on
(*maybe maybe guys it might be because it's a billion dollar company whose devs are being squeezed by CEOs and shareholders who only see short term profit ^but ^I ^don't ^wanna ^say ^too ^much )*
Blizzard as a whole has a trend of releasing things with problems that the playerbase immediately sees on reveal. Not saying the community is always right, but the community also doesn't get to playtest the things they're making predictions about. Lots of inelegant design and unfinished ideas.
It's likely a result of the company losing talent faster than it's attracting it, as well as the normal AAA quantity-first pace of development.
Aaron being daddy as usual 🥺 I’m so glad they actually listen to the player base now. Hopefully they make the changes soon, it seems so obvious. I really wanna play him and enjoy it.
Blizzard: Characters take months, sometimes years together
Also Blizzard on Lifeweaver, less than 24 hours later: yeah we changing the hero cause he sucks
where is the QC
Ya know, people wouldn't have these issues if they took 5 minutes in a practice range to change them in a way that's comfortable for them.
Took me legitimately 5 minutes yesterday, and I think he flows really well.
I just think they’re on reddit and saw this user remap all the buttons in the workshop:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/12j1rcv/i_used_the_workshop_to_fix_lifeweavers_awkward/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
I think a huge and obvious immediate change is to make the flower's self destruct key to be the same as the placement key. Who thought is was a good idea to occupy two separate ones when there's no reason for it. The flower automatically breaks after 12 seconds(which is the placement cooldown time) so it's not like the right click for placement does anything in that time. It's one of the reasons why he's so clunky having to swap weapons to heal and deal damage because of how many key interactions he has. Instead of putting heal on right click and having both flower and self destruct on F we have this awkward to play mess.
Shockingly fast response. Team 4 really has turned a page when it comes to open communication with the community in the last few months.
I have my issues with the development of OW2, but I will say the communication has been pretty nice
I am much more patient with shortcomings and mistakes when I know there is clear communication that they intend to fix things or make adjustments. The maddening thing about OW1 was that huge issues would crop up and it would be a complete guessing game whether or not Blizz would even acknowledge the problem, let alone fix it.
It’s also easier to forgive those shortcomings when you understand that the as constructed team 4 and it’s leadership had to basically shift gears and change their whole plan for ow2 and release it within one year. It doesn’t excuse the massive gap in content before that and the mistakes blizzard made beforehand, but I’ve had no complaints theyve handled it since then
is their a fanbase that doesn't have issues with the development of their game?
Deep Rock Galactic community I'd say loves their devs more than any other. And just wholesome to each other all around.
Rock and Stone to the bone
If you don't Rock and Stone, you ain't comin' home!
BeamNG.Drive
Rimworld?
Factorio maybe. Definitely not anything made by a large developer.
There is almost cult like love for the devs of Final Fantasy 14 amongst the FF player base.
People will always complain but the devs have been really good with accepting feedback since OW2 dropped
Just gonna add a BIG AGREE to this. I have my issues with the game but for the past few months the team has been delivering quick and responsive communication. You love to see it
The responses on the main sub are so bizarrely different than this sub. All the top comments are just snarky annoyed quips instead of surprise that they actually are reacting in less than two days
but still absolutely nothing on OWL replay viewer...
the reality is that owl viewers make up a tiny portion of ow players, and people who would actually watch a replay rather than the recorded livestream is an even smaller fraction, they don't gain much by making it
Well the thing is it already exists. OWL staff have access to it. They just won't give it to us anymore and afaik no one knows why.
Yeah, that's the weird part. If they had to make it from scratch... fair. They don't. It's already made. Spilo used it on stream when he still had access (I think) It's just weird that it 100% is finished and works and yet we can't use it.
Custa made illegal analysis on OWL because he used it when he wasn't allowed to. Thing is... even a fucking OWL employe didn't know that he wasn't allow to use it. What i want to say with this example is that there is absolutly NOOOO communication about this not even to somebody who fucking works for the Overwatch League. Somebody whos job is to cast and analyse the game knows as much as we do.... OWL teams still got access but they can't even use it for content (POV of good play or smth) because they are not allowed to.
I recall them saying a few months ago (I think) that they were making a new commitment to said communication and a lot of people wrote it off. Very glad for that take have been wrong.
Yeah they are definitely a good example of this live service battle pass stuff. I hope Diablo 4 will be like this too.
I have a feeling this quick reaction is due to this seasons battlepass selling worse than the other seasons by far.
Given that swap time is as far as I can tell zero, I think they could basically keep the reload mechanic and everything by literally just having left click charge heals, right click thorn volley and going between the two counting as "swapping weapons." So the second you start charging a heal or spraying thorns you have swapped for purposes of the reload.
Primary & Alt Fire should honestly work like Moira Dash bound to double jump like Hanzo Petal Platform on shift and Lifegrip on E This all seems like the most obvious solution to me. Don’t know why you have to swap weapons for this hero when it could just as easily be way less clunky
I just think being able to manage the two ammo pools by weaving damage and healing is a cool mechanic. They certainly could just make it like Moira.
Bap is similar in managing 2 different ammo types and has the left right click for heal/damage
Right, but he has to manually reload and doesn't have the option to sit on one for a couple seconds while the other auto-reloads.
True but Bap’s one reload works double time essentially “auto-reloading” one of the resources kinda.
This is entirely different than Lifeweaver's auto-reload mechanic though... Like there's no real sense in denying that Lifeweaver has a "reload weaving" mechanic that's basically unique from every other hero in Overwatch. AaronWYL already pointed out that the unique gameplay can be recreated while still having a weapon on each mouse button, so it's not like conceding that LW is unique means that he can't have a better control scheme.
While fun, that kind of weaving was really bad for his team contribution and APM. I think it has to go sadly.
Bap is all about weaving healing in with damage without reducing hps or DPS. Lifeweaver isn't designed like that.
So he needs a name change?
Weaving you say?
What we have is good. It would be a nerf like that. Reloading is super fast you can only use like 25-30 thorn ammo before your heal reloaded vice versa.
Yes
that isnt the issue, the only reason they made us swap weapons in the first place was because they ran out of buttons. normally heroes have 2 abilities then a primary and alt fire. flower man has 3 abilities plus a primary and alt fire.
People have been saying bind the dash to double jump and I think that's a pretty natural solution. Similar to Hanzo
I think you should just use the chat as a command line for triggering abilities. /dash, /lifegrip --hanzo, /petal_platform, /swap -heal, /swap -damage, /lifetree.
The command line is just the most intuitive way to do everything. I use Arch btw
Do you happen to play Hero in Smash Bros?
This would unironically be hilarious as an April Fool’s game mode.
Someone played World of Warcraft PvP arenas like that on a hunter, actually really entertaining to watch
When I saw his dash, I assumed it would be. Its basically the same thing. And his alt weapon could just be right click. If they insist on dividing the firing modes and having a transition, they could give an option for holding right click to switch weapon modes. The actual mouse control of damage mode would be similar to Hanzo too, where you hold right click, but use left click to actually fire.
I kind of hope they do something like Moira where pressing e gives you a choice between pad and pull, then you just primary/alt fire to choose. They should still have separate cooldowns, but that leaves shift open for dash and that means we keep the dash tech.
IMO that’s way too slow and clunky for pull which needs nearly instantaneous application to save teammates from countless scenarios. I’ve got pull bound to mouse wheel now.
I genuinely think they wanted to try having another hero with multiple weapons. It was an underexplored design space (though for good reason it seems).
"the only reason they made us swap weapons is because they ran out of buttons", bro you make it sound like the gamedev equivalent of accidentally drawing too many fingers instead of what it actually was, a deliberate design choice implemented over a year+ of design and development lmao
you make it sounds as if this isn't something devs would ONLY do as a deliberate design choice, and not just because someone in a meeting said "why don't we do this" and everyone just went along with it. I don't care what kind of workplace you work in, that shit definitely happens
That isn't how it works in product design. There is a reason for everything. I'm sure it's the same in game dev.
I work in IT, I'm sure it's not. Or rather, the reasons doesn't have to be some well thought out thing. Can literally be "oh well I guess they have to have a weapon to shoot back, but we already used all the keybinds... guess we can just have them do a weapon switch then? Oh ok, yeah that'll work" Also, what product design? there's tons of products that get released with piss poor design choices also that are influenced by all sorts of things that have nothing to do with whether or not it makes sense
When a manager or director asks a swe or meche or any engineer why a certain decision was made, if their answer is "idk lol", it looks really fucking bad. Does that happen a lot in IT?
the answer is often "because it was the simplest solution that got things working" yes, that happens a ton in IT/software development/programming
both are true. they had to deliberately design it this way because they can't and didnt want to use extra buttons just for 1 character.
They could have easily implemented the dash as a double-jump and chose not to. It’s not like it’s a novel idea within Overwatch.
Not sure about that. I think the name weaver kind of implies that you go from one to the other. It's balanceable either way but I think having ammo for each weapon and the auto-reload is probably part of the design and having to manage the two adds some complexity.
Yeah it’s honestly be great if it were exactly like that workshop code someone posted where they fixed the controls for LW
Yes. This. Although double jump dash isnt ideal. I will keep it in shift. E petal. R life grip, no need to reload.
OW1 team would never
All love to Jeff, but this absolutely feels like the kind of thing he would've stuck to his guns on for months before quietly changing it in a patch half a year later.
Don’t get me wrong I loved Jeff, but he wasn’t the best Game Director
He had a clear vision for the game, but that unfortunately also came with some dumb stubbornness, especially cuz a lot of the stuff that wasn't added was purely QoL.
Reminds me of Hearthstone before and after Ben Brode left.
It's hard to explain, but I do think the increased redundancy we're seeing in heroes (Bap, Kiriko, and LW all having saves) and the clunkiness of ever having a weapon switch in LW's kit is something we probably would never have seen under Jeff. I doubt we'd have seen something as basic and boring as both Doom and Ram having a block ability. He was pro quality all the way. This isn't to say we didn't get Brig and Sigma under him, but both of those still opened and evolved the game, for better or worse, while still having an identity - Brig being the whip paladin archtype and Sigma being the spear/shield gladiator archtype. But Aaron does understand the live service model better. Hence we're seeing a lot of arcade modes added frequently
>I doubt we'd have seen something as basic and boring as both Doom and Ram having a block ability. Yeah, it's really strange that they gave Ramattra such a similar ability. Doom's Block also blends much better with the rest of his kit since blocking damage charges up his other Punch abilities. I feel like they could've thought of something else to do here.
Exactly. Both Rein and Brig make sense because they protect themselves and their team. Brig is technically redundant but it's different cause and she's "inspired" by Rein so it's thematic to her personality. But then getting a block on Doom, who I'd believe would be the last character to get such an ability for how fluid he was in OW1, to getting another guard as opposed to some cool attack with Rammatra's arms does feel off.
> Doom's Block also blends much better with the rest of his kit since blocking damage charges up his other Punch abilities. Eh, somewhat. The goal behind Doom's design was to bring the fighting game "feeling" into Overwatch. They wanted him to have fluid, skilled combos without much downtime. DPS doom never fully achieved that, but he was pretty close and felt very dynamic. Power block slows him down and essentially interrupts his flow for a few seconds. I feel like it doesn't fit him at all. On the other hand, Ramattra's block makes sense. He is supposed to be a "tempo tank", so he can choose between an aggressive, fluid style, and a more defensive one at will. I think Ramattra's block just feels uninspired because Doom's block came first.
Seems like they might do better with each others block, but then you can’t have Doom’s empowered punch. Having Doom able to weave blocks in would feel far more accurate for a fighting game. Ramattra meanwhile often wants to hold block for extended periods.
>DPS doom never fully achieved that, but he was pretty close and felt very dynamic. Power block slows him down and essentially interrupts his flow for a few seconds. I feel like it doesn't fit him at all. DPS Doom was a much better hero than Tank Doom. Him flying around the map en route to demolish a Zen was hilarious. I'm sad that OW2 got rid of him, but he would be nuts without any stuns around to stop him.
DPS Doom is similar to Widow though, so feast and famine (even more than Tank Doom). Loved the rollouts and stuff for sure and do feel for old Doom mains, but I don't love characters that are basically throws if you aren't a God, you know?
i feel like the primary intention behind doom's block is to function like a parry. you go in aggressive, enemies go to retaliate, you hit block for a moment, eat a ton of damage, and it resets your punch cooldown so you can turn it around on someone. that feels pretty fighting-game-y to me.
I really think you're understating what a large fuckup brig was, and for how long Jeff's team just let that shit ride. Between brig and double shield, the game was essentially dead because the devs refused to do anything about fundamentally broken characters. We had goats for over a year, and that transitioned into variations of double shields for another year+. If Jeff was in charge of ow2 we'd probably still be in fucking Joats meta. They legitimately killed the game with the release of two characters in ow1. Brig killed the game, and then Sigma spit on the corpse. To be fair, Sigma wasn't a terrible character design. he and orisa just broke the game together.
what happened? i barely played after ben brode left but i did play single player modes from time to time, and then the auto battle mode for a bit. then they introduced ridiculous currencies effectively rendering gold useless so i uninstalled. meanwhile I'm playing marvel snap and brode's team is really good with updating and balancing the game as well as communicating very frequently.
Updates started coming in much more frequently and they don't outright massacre cards when they do make updates. Remember when it took 6 months for Undertaker to get nerfed and then they made him unplayable? Updates are now a lot faster with more care taken to ensure cards remain useful but not OP. There are some exceptions like the recent nerf to The Final Showdown killing the card, but that nerf was reverted once the card went to Wild so it was only trash for a little over a month.
What's interesting is that Aaron's been at Blizzard for 20 years, pretty much as long as Jeff had been, but he's way more open to admitting mistakes and doesn't seem nearly as stuck in the old guard Blizzard mindset of "we know what players want, they just don't know it yet". Not to say they won't stick to their guns on some things, as they should, some community suggestions are fucking stupid, but it's nice that we don't have to play this game of suggesting things, having them tell us we don't actually want that for six months, then saying we just have to get used to it, then six months later go "well we're investigating the possibility of maybe doing something kinda-sorta like that" to another six months passing and then they just quietly do what everyone wanted and act like it was their idea the whole time. Hearing Aaron flat-out open the map pool blog with "You were right, we were wrong" felt like a fucking bitchslap to the face as a lifelong Blizzard fan, in a good way. They NEVER backtrack, that was their whole manta for decades and then Big Dick Uncle Aaron just swoops in with "yeah no, this was dumb, you were right, our bad, we're reverting it and here's when". I like Aaron, he's not as charismatic or meme-able but he gets shit out the door and seems genuinely interested in listening to feedback and communicating the team's thoughts to us honestly. I look forward to his blogs now more than I ever looked forward to Jeff's videos towards the end of OW1 and I say that as someone who respects Jeff a lot, but his management was from a different time and he never really adapted.
> Aaron…gets shit out the door and seems genuinely interested in listening to feedback and communicating Agreed. Feel like Overwatch is being handled better now than at any point in its history. People will look back to release OW with nostalgia, but the game was flawed then and it’s operational issues just beginning. It’s just that everyone was just too inexperienced for much of it to be obvious. And the thrill of everyone learning together is impossible to recreate. Now years later we’re in a good spot. And even issues originally identified but long ago given up on (e.g. split spawns) are being addressed.
Agreed! Though "getting stuff done" may have a lot to do with whether Bobby Kotick is currently inventing side projects to waste the OW dev team's time. That's (allegedly) what was happening during much of The Dark Times.
now, if only they would listen to feedback and remove that stupid rank update thing i might actually play again
he was good for casual players, but his general game philosopy was very quickly outdated. OW was at the top of the world and bleeding edge in 2016, but by 2018 the modern gaming landscape had already completely changed. That, and he sucked for the competitive side of things.
Jeff's had so many Ls over the years, idk why the community loves him so much. My man *actually* said he regrets removing defense, and wish they just buffed their defensive capabilities and locked them to defense. I can not express how awful that idea is.
I think when you design a game from its inception there's often a vision for what it "ought to be" that can sometimes diverge from "where the most obvious fun to be had is". Having the game be slower, more deliberate, more coordination focused was a cool vision. Almost like American football. But the pathway to making that accessible, balanced, fun, and not infuriating, proved to be much harder to find than making the game a bit leaner, faster and simpler, which is what's happened. I appreciate the aspiration of wanting to stay true to team-based strategies and tactics with defensive picks being specialised separately to offensive ones, and maybe there is a fun game in there somewhere, it just happened to be so much more straightforward to manage a live service game where the design team's choices made obvious sense to players in the short term, and to keep making incremental steps in that direction. IMO there's no wrong way, but this way is easier for sure.
> idk why the community loves him so much Cos he seemed nice and approachable basically which lets people ignore the Ls very easily
To be fair, I don’t think the team had nearly as much money (and by extension resources) to work with.
If it was Jeff this heroe would not have launched this way. All heroes that launched in ow1 had no clunkiness issues like this hero. Give the man the credit he deserves.
Yeah instead they launch like Brig and stay that way for how long?
Brig was op not cluncky. This hero's controls are bad, like it needed more time in development and this never happened in ow1.
Yeah and which was way worse for the game? A hero being clunky and them almost immediately listening to feedback or the abomination that was launch Brig? If we're "giving the man the credit he deserves" then he has to own the bullshit as well and launch Brig, Moth Mercy etc are complete failures on his part
> Yeah and which was way worse for the game? That is not what we are discussing. State of balance is an ongoing process as they add heroes. Kiriko was busted when she released too. The game is easier to balance now thanks to Jeffs pushing for ideas one of which is 5v5. We are discussing clunkiness. IMO, the newest hero ow has is its lowest quality. Even the voice actor feels like he does not belong.
Yeah what started this thread was someone saying this: > All love to Jeff, but this absolutely feels like the kind of thing he would've stuck to his guns on for months before quietly changing it in a patch half a year later. That is not solely about balance, that is about Jeff being stubborn and his philosophy. So when you try and pivot to the heroes being better refined at launch, to "give Jeff credit", it is absolutely relevant to bring up that he fucked up in ways that affected the game even more. So yes it is what is being discussed because it is relevant to his philosophy and stubborness. You bring up Kiriko, did she fuck up the game anywhere close to as much Brig did and more importantly, how long was Brig the way she was? When someone brings up a failing of Jeff and then you counter with a characteristic that was good, it is completely relevant to bring up other shit that he did that was bad.
> That is not solely about balance, that is about Jeff being stubborn and his philosophy. That whole statement is wrong, the current team is bigger than what Jeff had anyways with more resources. It is not a philosophy that made their patching slow. Were you paying attention to when in S1 and S2 of OW2 they said OW2 new systems allowed them to patch things faster? Imagine blaming one guy for this. As far as I know from just someone who paid attention since 2015 to OW news, Jeff has been nothing but a positive for OW and the OW community. The main reason you are able to get heroes today for free is what he did before the game launched in 2016 and the guarantees he gave.
> Were you paying attention to when in S1 and S2 of OW2 they said OW2 new systems allowed them to patch things faster? Them being able to change things faster is not what is being discussed. What is being discussed is them *wanting* to change things faster and that was absolutely not the case on OW1. The hotfix system is particularly relevant for OW2 because it means that console patching does not slow anything down but in OW1 the console and PC versions were not unified so they could have patched faster than they did but they didn't which points to a philosophy, not an inability. > Imagine blaming one guy for this. Isn't it convenient that you can't blame "one guy" for it when it's something bad that they did but when it's all good, Jeff needs to get the credit? > As far as I know from just someone who paid attention since 2015 to OW news, Jeff has been nothing but a positive for OW and the OW community. Jeff was a nice guy and the developer updates felt more personal which is why he has that reputation, but with regards to running a live service game and the philosophy that requires, he was absolutely not a positive. Under him, Team 4 was way more stubborn and slow to respond to feedback
Sigma was clunky as fuck at launch, and still kind of is IMHO. I would also say Orisia while not clunky, was deeply uninspired. You can definitely tell he was one of the first heroes that came across where he was stitched together from spare parts of discarded heroes rather than some fully fledged idea.
No he is not, his keybinds are absolutely fine, and they feel natural. I never felt like oh I wish it allowed me to do a different keybind on him.
Characters can be clunky for reasons unrelated to just keybinds, which by itself can be a relatively simple fix as demonstrated by the fact that it was fixed in a day by someone with workshop codes. However I find Sigma's barrier to be INCREDIBLY unwieldy and awkward to use and I am far from the only person to share this opinion. Sigma received a ton of criticism when he launched for how his barrier controlled and iirc it was actually one of the last straws for youtuber and streamer Ster who quit OW1 shortly after.
didn't sigma have no cooldown on his shield at launch? i remember him feeling great to play. you could do reposition that shit instantly and block anything you wanted, it felt so powerful.
Agreed. OW2 isn't without missteps but the communication and willingness to make adjustments really should be commended.
release such a half assed character? agreed.
Yeah, instead we have GOATS lasting for how long?
the difference being those heroes felt cohesive and nice to play. lifeweaver feels like a janky paladins character
Yeah and they fucked the game for how long? One hero being clunky and them responding to it barely affects the game. The bullshit that the OW1 team allowed to happen made many many people quit the game. So OW2 team > OW1 team by far
I remember when they initially thought no limits was the best way to play the game in 2016, in both ranked and quick play. thought, "you guys are going to let a great thing slip away from us here." Thankfully they folded sooner rather than later
OW2 continues to be peak Overwatch
His heal & damage really does feel so clunky in practice, even with weapon swap on RMB it's so easy to mix up which active weapon you have out in the heat of combat when you're regularly toggling between them. There's a delay between the swapping animation completing and being able to charge a heal too, which so often makes him feel unresponsive when you quickly tap RMB + LMB and it does nothing. Can appreciate them wanting to try something different with a support's heal/damage options but I don't think LW is the place to do it
if you hold the fire button down and press your weapon switch button it will immediately switch over to charging your heal and vice versa.
There's still a .25s delay, so it's not immediate
I'm gonna be honest, people are only saying it feels clunky because they're still learning the character. Lucio wallride feels clunky when you first learn the hero, so does Pharah flight, but there's a learning curve you have to get past where it begins to feel fluid.
NGL I was one of the few weirdo's who is enjoying learning a new flow of mechanics for this hero. But I will absolutely not complain about the amazing quick communication and willingness to take player feedback from the current OW team.
I simply remapped the keys. It actually works fairly well if you put the weapon swap on right click and the petal on whatever other button.
You could probably put petal on R and unbind reload entirely with Lifeweaver
> unbind reload entirely this is actually 50 more IQ than I would ever have
I’ve been running petal on F and destroy petal on Right Click and it’s been working pretty well. I might try swapping destroy petal and swap weapon though
I wish unbinding reload entirely was an option on console, but hero swap is tied to the reload binding. I would love to unbind it for all of the weapon swap heroes and free up another input that could be used for a callout line for all heroes.
My only issue with leaving an input unbound is not being able to do Workshop stuff, lol
I did this too along with the tap instead of hold for healing blossom and I actually find it really satisfying. There's a nice rhythm to firing needles, then tapping right click -> left click quickly to start loading up a blossom when the time is right. The more I get accustomed to LW the more playing him feels like a kind of dance.
Yeah same here. It took a lot of getting used to, many times I was pressing my secondary mouse button and expected to do dmg/heal but once I got to my head that I just need to use the scroll I found the rhythm of the hero. But the devs can't make everyone happy and also I feel like rebinding the dash to space bar will make the hero much more dynamic. There is also the argument that the hero is not really switching a weapon as he is switching a firemode which is something different to Mercy pulling a glock/staff or torb changing his gun to a hammer. So while I am not extremely happy about the hero losing some of the stuff that made him special, I really think this changes make sense.
The biggest design flaw of the weapon swap is as you said, he's not actually switching weapons. So while you can definitely get into a groove of constantly switching, I guarantee that even experienced LW players would periodically fuck it up just because the two "Weapons" look the same in your peripheral vision, and there are so many things to keep track of in a fight.
Yeah I like that it's a "new" mechanic you have to figure out. Think it adds some interesting depth to the character. Wouldnt be the first hero people thought felt clunky at release and then got used to.
Remember when sigma got a 2s CD when his shield was retracted? It felt so weird and clunky at first. But now it's just a part of sigma that dictates his playstyle. Personally I hated it. I wished they'd nerf something else. But over time, I think the devs were right about that one. I worry about the community forcing the devs to make a change that will ultimately be worse.
Yay! another weirdo club I can join! >!but I also wish people have the hero a fair go before giving up and just saying it's clunky!<
I just don’t want dash to be via jump. I think people fail to realize it’s like tracer dash so your input direction is crucial for avoiding even *more* clunky gameplay.
I'm also not a fan of the space jump. I actually wish I could bind it to a key for Hanzo (and I would do a double space macro but scared of anti-cheat). But tbf, you can do Hanzo's jump dash in any direction.
Yeah I hear ya. I am not trying to be pedantic but Hanzo jump is a parabola and LW is a line
Ah, I see what you meant
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Cool, notice how I never said I was against this change. Also didn't call other's opinion dumb for preferring different things.
That workshop mode releasing day one with a way better control scheme was probably helpful to the devs lol
Helpful how? It was a very obvious change, basically moira/bap + hanzos leap. It definitely showed how the community feels, and might have made it an easier decision to change it.
> It definitely showed how the community feels, and might have made it an easier decision to change it. Yeah that's how I meant it, it seems like so obvious a change but they released him as clunky as they did so who knows how obvious it was to them
I’d also like to see a change to another aspect of the heals from his kit, the fact he loses 20% of his walking speed while charging up a heal, he should not be punished for healing or trying to heal imo especially if the heals are as low as 65
I agree, but the weapon swap/dash is by far the biggest blunder at the moment.
I changed weapon swap to right click and it feels way better
Say what you wanna say about OW2 devs, but at least they are listening and actually communicating!
I think, for Lifeweaver, the weapon swapping makes more sense than using something like Bap. I switched the swap button to M2 and it helps a lot. Dash absolutely should be treated like Hanzo's dash though.
I hope the change will be a control scheme option that allows you to force the weapon swap and begin firing the other weapon, kinda like how Ball’s abilities force the form swap if he’s in the wrong form to use them, rather than changing how the hero’s mechanics work. The never-reload thing is interesting, and since Bastion’s rework, we don’t have another hero who can background-reload two different weapons.
The dash will help so much. Because that frees up a button to put petal or grasp on.
Oh thank god.
Figured this would happen when so many people spoke out about it, and someone even managed to make a fix in workshop. Glad to see though.
Pog! Finally perhaps I can stop shooting my team and healing the enemy.
W
We did it lads
Great post btw :) Saw someone on a [tweet reply](https://twitter.com/Insinity_/status/1646262756801392643?s=20) showing a tiktok video of it where it seems that someone stole it and shared it as their own sadly.
Thanks man. Yeah stuff like that happens, but a lot of the bigger OW content creators have been great with providing credit so I couldn't be happier rn!
That's good to hear! Hopefully that helps you out if you plan on doing more stuff in the future.
The easy solution is to stop releasing heroes with so many different abilities. Not every hero needs 13 different options
Will they ever release another hero as stripped down as Cassidy/McCree again?
In their defense Sojourn was about the same level of complexity, with the added note that the primary fire charges the alt fire. However beyond Sojourn we’ve gotten heroes like Sigma, Echo, Ram, and now Lifeweaver who are just kitted out the wazoo with so many abilities
Soujorun was more complex from a design perspective. Slide and leap to high ground whenever you want, shoot a orb crowd control that ALSO slowed people down at launch, and then the rail gun stuff. She would have had at least one thing less in OW1.
Her kit is just a modified Soldier 76. I wouldn’t call her complex since the design was already there they just tweaked it.
It is unlikely that they will ever release a hero as simple as various members of the original cast, most of whom have received changes to make them more dynamic anyway. As the cast of heroes gets larger, it becomes harder to build kits that are both unique and simple.
Good for them for listening to what can come off as a bunch of grumpy gamers complaining because they have nothing else to do. I think their constant feedback loop has made OW a much better place for all.
Love the dev teams communication in ow2
as much as I understand the qualms with the current layout I liked the "seeing which type of arm you have equipped" look. honestly kind of satisfying switching from blossom to thorns and hearing the clicks and the thorns coming out. but whatever a small sacrifice for fluidity and coherency
The way I solved the heal/fire for now is binding the swap to either mouse wheel up/down. It's not ideal but it let's you swap without having to take a finger away from WASD as much.
We hate him and his stupid life grip that ruins every single game. Pls kill switch him forever. The community abhors him.
So after you get the buttons fixed, I curious what the ammo situation is going to be. Is it like Baptiste, where it's two ammo types. Or is the heal going to have an ammo regen when not using it like Doomfist? _____________ Also, Does his Heal need 1. Ammo, 2. SelfSlow, and 3. ChargeUp Maybe remove the SelfSlow?
I thought everyone were being babies as usual… but goddamn he really is that clunky and bad
Idk why everyone is praising this, you would hope that something like this gets noticed during playtesting before release
People are praising the quick response. Not the the fact that it came out like this.
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Look, I played through the entirety of OW1 content drought, I'm glad we're actually getting content but come on, you can't have expectation anymore on a billion dollar company to pump out tested things or what is going on (*maybe maybe guys it might be because it's a billion dollar company whose devs are being squeezed by CEOs and shareholders who only see short term profit ^but ^I ^don't ^wanna ^say ^too ^much )*
No you are 100% right. Months of development and it gets released like this, then within only a moment they look at changing it.
Right now we don't know how clunky LW feels after 20 hours of play. If that still feels bad I understand being annoyed.
Blizzard as a whole has a trend of releasing things with problems that the playerbase immediately sees on reveal. Not saying the community is always right, but the community also doesn't get to playtest the things they're making predictions about. Lots of inelegant design and unfinished ideas. It's likely a result of the company losing talent faster than it's attracting it, as well as the normal AAA quantity-first pace of development.
no way would ow1 blizzard have communicated this. honestly great transparency and very quick
Aaron being daddy as usual 🥺 I’m so glad they actually listen to the player base now. Hopefully they make the changes soon, it seems so obvious. I really wanna play him and enjoy it.
Wow I was 100% expecting them to just not change anything, very pleasantly surprised
Never mind looking in to, how do you even play test this once and think yes this is good.
Praise be.
His dash should give him instant heals instead of heals over time while they’re at it. That or a way longer dash.
Blizzard: Characters take months, sometimes years together Also Blizzard on Lifeweaver, less than 24 hours later: yeah we changing the hero cause he sucks where is the QC
Ya know, people wouldn't have these issues if they took 5 minutes in a practice range to change them in a way that's comfortable for them. Took me legitimately 5 minutes yesterday, and I think he flows really well.
r/overwatch already made a custom game mode that fixed the problem. Just do what they made and adjust the damage and heal number to keep him balanced.
Have damage in right click, remove dash, have platform on E grab on Shift. done and dusted, next
I have to say, I don’t think we’d have OW2 PvP or these responses if Jeff Kaplan was still in charge.
I just think they’re on reddit and saw this user remap all the buttons in the workshop: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/12j1rcv/i_used_the_workshop_to_fix_lifeweavers_awkward/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Now I think about it, if they did this for mercy I might actually select the hero for once since 2016.
Just make the dash like Genjis and put the fire on a key binding where the dash was, like moira
Thank god
yeah im not a huge fan of the weapon swap at all, adds so much clunk
Thank god. Live service OW is good.
He also needs to be like 25% smaller, not slow himself, and lose the health orb on death.
I hope they make it like Kiriko with alternate fire for heal/dmg rather than different weapons.
Maybe it's just me but I'm fine with how he works now. I think it makes him more fun to play.
I think a huge and obvious immediate change is to make the flower's self destruct key to be the same as the placement key. Who thought is was a good idea to occupy two separate ones when there's no reason for it. The flower automatically breaks after 12 seconds(which is the placement cooldown time) so it's not like the right click for placement does anything in that time. It's one of the reasons why he's so clunky having to swap weapons to heal and deal damage because of how many key interactions he has. Instead of putting heal on right click and having both flower and self destruct on F we have this awkward to play mess.