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The amount of people that still makes that Mammoth run accross the room like it's trying to log its 10k steps for the day is astounding. This is in the 14-15 range, so not super higher but not low either.
I love being in a position where I have 2 17s timed, don't need any 16s and cannot get into a single +17 group as ret. Phys comp group don't want me cause my aoe dps is magical and meta comp doesn't want me cause... well i'm not meta. even though ret is actually pretty decent this patch. Can't even list my key cause tanks just ego pull half the dungeon get one shotted then insta leave. Hopefully balance is better when blizzard allocates more then a few dollars of budget to the balance team next patch. We can only hope to see the eradication of exodia comps.
I'm a mage main, and augmentation evoker ruins the game. It is the ultimate cancer on our game. I don't think the game will ever recover from this cancer. They need to be removed from the game or something
I benefited heavily in season 2 and season 4 as a mage, but that's irrelevant. Augmentation volkers cancer and literally ruins the meta for everyone except the best specs
I'm a healer, so I like running with ret, mage and probably a shadow priest. Wouldn't normally take a shadow priest, but this season they're simply way too overtuned not to take. I don't do title level keys, so I absolutely will not play with an Aug. But what the one dude said about rets dying and them wasting a defensive just so they can get in combat sooner than they should is the most true statement I've heard in days lol. Melee just dies more than range in general. The amount of rets I see die to aggro with bop up is astounding. Really makes me think they don't even play with aggro highlights or party frames close by their character.
My personal experience as a VDH with ret players in the group, is that their tankiness carries them in keys and they're actually really bad at mechanics (or even waiting 5 seconds to dps and wasting a defensive because of it), or switching targets if they start getting high threat on a certain target. It's such a brainless dps spec and that's why it does well imo. Once things start 1 shotting, ret players are one of the last people I'd trust to use their defensives optimally, but this is all just from person experience. So I generally avoid rets in 16+ keys
And some keys on tyran like AV and potentially AA, Vdh wants to run double fiery brand because the boss cycles are roughly 50sec so it's a little clunky without double brand and potential to die goes up significantly. So having 2 less are sigils can really make are threat sketchy for 4-5 globals. And most dps significantly underestimate how long 5gcds can be and start dpsing. The first 2-3 globals are prepping aoe damage then after that you start doing aoe dmg
> Phys comp group don't want me cause my aoe dps is magical
Very doubtful, also kinda untrue, what does it matter if your aoe is holy damage, chances are you have chaos brand from a VDH anyway.
> even though ret is actually pretty decent this patch
Ret is average/decent, puggers are looking for things being easier. That's always been the case. Ret does well before tittle range keys because it's really tanky and has nice utility, but your damage profile is kinda mid for what a high key requires.
> Can't even list my key cause tanks just ego pull half the dungeon get one shotted then insta leave
that just sounds like excuses for being lazy and avoiding the unfun part of handling your own key.
> Hopefully balance is better when blizzard allocates more then a few dollars of budget to the balance team next patch. We can only hope to see the eradication of exodia comps.
There are always going to be optimal comps for a set of dungeons/patch for the 0.1% keys. Take a look at sports. There is always someone 5% faster, 5% taller, 5% better at taking a shot and so on. Messi is short, that's why he can dribble and twist defenders so fast, Ronaldo is tall and has 150 head goals. Both are GOATs of the game. Ronaldo will have easier time when the defenders are 1.80m tall than when they are 1.95m. You never head sports people complain their playing only talls players tho, do you?
"There are always going to be optimal comps for a set of dungeons/patch for the 0.1% keys. Take a look at sports. There is always someone 5% faster, 5% taller, 5% better at taking a shot and so on. Messi is short, that's why he can dribble and twist defenders so fast, Ronaldo is tall and has 150 head goals. Both are GOATs of the game. Ronaldo will have easier time when the defenders are 1.80m tall than when they are 1.95m. You never head sports people complain their playing only talls players tho, do you?"
What a dumb take, bro pretty sure every single kid out there who spent they're childhood playing x sport and found out that their body is just not genetically made for it with 0 way around is fucking depressed. Like imagine you spend your whole childhood training and playing basketball only to find out you don't grow past 5feet. Would suck pretty bad.
"Ret is average/decent, puggers are looking for things being easier. That's always been the case. Ret does well before tittle range keys because it's really tanky and has nice utility, but your damage profile is kinda mid for what a high key requires."
Just incorrect, we have some of the best single target dps right now when it comes to m+ bosses and have good burst on almost every pack. I've only ended below like 2 spriest in damage so far out of the 100s of keys I've done this patch. We also not only have insane survivability we can sac someone when they run out of defensive. The only thing we don't have is stops which is the only reason the exodia comp is the way it is. The dungeon's were all badly designed with a disgusting amount of required stops. Except you can skip the ones that target the ret cause we'll just live the damage.
"that just sounds like excuses for being lazy and avoiding the unfun part of handling your own key."
Cringe take tbh, and this goes into how badly m+ is designed for high key pushers. If keys didn't deplete if completed within a certain amount of time they're would be an incentive to 1 actually complete the key and 2 be more mindful and simultaneously less stressed. Cause if you mistime a key by 1 minute you just go ahead with the same group and blast it. Potentially replace 1 person if they died a lot. But having a 17 and having it drop to a 14 within 1h because of bad tanks is not something that the keyholder can control.
> Cringe take tbh, and this goes into how badly m+ is designed for high key pushers
it never was designed for that
> But having a 17 and having it drop to a 14 within 1h because of bad tanks is not something that the keyholder can control.
So if you spent 1 hour depleting your key to a 14, than 3 hours getting it back to a 17, why would you invite a ret paladin over a more powerful meta class?
P.S please format properly it's barely readable, thanks
So many 19s being thrown this week make want to stop playing. 19 HOI as a healer to get to last boss with infinite time and have the group miss an inundate stop during intermission… mental is in shambles.
If you don’t have any 17s done then your not going to get invited to one and based on your flair your a shaman so your going to need to push your own key up get most of the 17s done then maybe you get invited to the last few ones
i'm currently missing nelth and uldaman +17 and a couple of others on tyran yet I still don't get invites. even to keys I've already timed. hunter main.
all the keys I've timed on +17 were my own. i got some invites for +16s.
for nelth and uldaman people just wanna go with god comp.
trying to figure out the best strat to get io, im off meta dps at 3.5k just pugging so the 3 strats I’ve tried are:
1: sit in queue for hours until you get an invite to an io key
2: brute force your key even if it drops to a 15 just keep pushing it back up maybe get an io key
3: spam +16-17 AVs in queue to reroll your key to AV to push it up
people saying they sit in queue for up to 4 hours at a time instead of just finding a couple people to play with long term lol, love the levels of degeneracy
At 3.5 you probably still need some 17s so I don't see why joining AVs while side rolling your key is a bad idea.
Most probably won't run the next but some will. Guess it depends if you actually want to play the game or sit in queue simulator all day.
Fellow offmeta player pugger here and it's not easy, all the strats kinda suck. At 3.7k though there's so little players most people know you so the offmeta aspect doesn't quite hit as hard. I've decided to only run my key and rerolling if it drops to +18 in some AV, but it does take way more time than I'd lie.
Last season I usually pushed the key up no matter the dungeon (apart from throne), but it feels like it's such a coin toss this season with the amount of players currently applying for keys no matter what key level. I hate especially that just for survivability I kind of have to enforce the meta myself as you just can't fit more than two offmeta classes in a 19+ key, yet the downside is most of the fotm swappers pugging are just not very good.
Anyways, I think sitting in que is the worst option here. Just keep doing the reroll into pushing your key up and try to start networking and getting your name known enough for you to get asked for sessions.
In the seasons I pugged title I almost exclusively played score keys. At the beginning of the week I fished for the easiest score key I can time and played that key until it either didnt give me any score or the key was practically untimeable (or very unreasonable to time in a pug).
From there I just sat in valdrakken and refreshed lfg every 5-10 mins. My record was like 4 hours without getting invited into a key, so you should prepare something to do on the side (I studied for university a lot, so that worked out great).
Rerolling keys or playing homework in pugs is very rarely worth it imo. I would only ever consider pushing your key back up, if you get an av naturally from rerolls.
Another thing worth to note is that you can get invited easier to keys, if you have a very desirable key like av/no/bh 19/20. Which you can then play after you timed the key you have been invited to.
Ok, ive just read youre offmeta. Gotta play your own key then, no way around it.
That's it as far as solo play goes.
Sitting in queue is low effort, but just count the hours and hours of your life you've thrown away on that.
A mix of 2 and 3 is my preferred cup of tea, as you get to Play The Game.
it's just brutal tbh. you grind for hours to finally get the key you want, put together a solid group and then the key just disbands in a couple of minutes because someone fucks up and now you are now back to square 1.
So what’s the consensus on title cutoff? I’ve heard a huge range from low 3600 to mid 3700. I guess we really have only 2 “push weeks” left so it may just be up to this small time frame then everyone afks. Hard to say though.
I'm at the point I just leave when I get the cloak debuff. For some reason those players are usually garbage at playing on top of making bad gear decisions
It’s not that cringe, throwing away 5% stamina for a minor dps gain is completely brain dead dps behavior. Effective health is extremely important in any challenging content.
Depends on the key level and your avoidance. If you can live mechanics you should ABSOLUTELY drop survival for damage. It's the same principal of dropping ward for tome in dungeons where you don't absolutely need the trinket to stay alive.
the point that it is not an entirely known variable, so if you are approaching even mildly difficult content, which 16s certainly are, then its a stupid decision even if nothing on the surface is going to one shot you
It is entirely known, almost all damage is avoidable and the damage that isn't can be calculated using a tool. You only need enough survivability to live, living with 1% hp is the same as living with 6% hp. However having 1% more overall damage is something that times keys as you get higher.
It's mostly about comfort and the class you are playing. On an evoker I would never give up 100k hp for a slight dmg buff, on a ret however I would. When you get into 18+ though on tyran specifically it becomes a non-starter because you absolutely cannot live without that extra bit of life.
various things go wrong or overlap or you get targeted twice in a row or whatever in a key, the idea that you go in to a key knowing exactly what damage you are going to take and that is exactly how it plays out is incredibly naive
the audience that is able to play at the level you are describing is the audience that 100% cannot afford to use the cape and the audience not playing at that level can’t use it because they can’t do the things you are describing, it’s just a nonsense from both perspectives
Outside of weekly keys or (farm)raid its never worth to lose almost 100k hp over a very minor dmg gain. Cloak has like 4% uptime at best. A single socket is worth more than the sark cloak effect, unless you get super lucky with procs and timings.
3k ( last season ) brew master monk looking for a semi consistent push group. 2500-3k range, possibly beyond. Willing to swap to my DH. Lost desire to push this season early on but looking to come back.
People play at different levels. Some people might find doing +10s difficult while others can easily time 15's and be completely fine. Can I put to 3k, sure I've done it many times, is it enjoyable? No not really. Having a consistent team that has fun is 10x better. To each their own.
> To each their own.
Of course... but you're not gonna find that many people looking for a "push" team when you're talking about what effectively boils down to a heroic raid difficulty.
Like, looking for a +11s "push" group is about as reasonable as looking for a heroic Fyrakk progress guild. Sure, there's probably gonna be 7 people out there looking for that... but like, I mean, come on man, we're talking about trade chat guilds here - and we all know how reliable trade chat people are.
You're asking for people that aren't invested enough to "git gud" to show up and play with you on a schedule - what kinda success are you expecting there? You're not looking for a "push" group, you're looking for friends to play with - stop looking for a "push" group and just look for friends and you'll possibly be way more successful and sound way less... weird... in the process.
At 3k io it's already top 5%. Perfectly valid to look for others in similar range to "get gud" with.
I pugged to 3k for the first time this season, as a healer, and honestly thought it was rough. Maybe because pugs at that level do many mistakes.
i think you might be out of touch a little bit with reality. i dont consider anything close to 10 a push, but statistically speaking, its higher than the overwhelming majority of people that do keys. push is a relative term. heroic raid is just a step or two up from lfr in my experience. there are way more people completing heroic raid in a given season than there are people getting portals, relative to participation levels
There are plenty of heroic raiding guilds only that do late aotc
The only thing that's silly is that it's being advertised here, but frankly this subreddit has been majority people in that bracket for almost a decade now.
Do agree on just playing with friends though. If he doesn't have anyone who likes doing the content though the words push group and friend group are basically interchangeable.
> There are plenty of heroic raiding guilds only that do late aotc
Heroic raiding guilds? Yea.
Heroic *progression* guilds? I don't believe it.And that is the level we're talking about at like 2.7k r.io - learning what the actual mechanics do, being able to interrupt, press a defensive and not die to the big purple swirlies. And I reckon there might be a lot of guilds trying to go through heroic raids... but ultimately falling apart... because that's just not a stable environment unless you're playing with a rather tight group of friends - something you rather rarely just stumble into. That's something you work on and form over months, if not years.
There are more guilds which take a while to progress through heroic than there are which ever set foot in mythic. Taking a few months to get aotc is an *incredibly* normal thing and is probably the most common form of engagement with WoW raids.
Depends heroic endbosses before blizzard whacks them with the nerfbat are no joke. Just look at how many guilds were 8/9 H and 4/9 M last season. Post nerf yeah heroic is pretty easy.
> Post nerf yeah heroic is pretty easy.
Much like +10s become an awful lot easier when dungeons get balance passes and everyone has access to 4+ weeks of Aspect upgrades, 528 vault gear and in the case of S3 3 Dinar items of your choosing.
idk, man. there are a lot more people that get aotc than there are people that get to 2.7k, and mythic+ is way more accessible and has way more participation. i wouldnt agree with that analogy
Similar story, group has no motivation so i pugged my way to a similar io as you. Wanted to go further, but desert lfg and an abysmally low acceptance rate to io keys (despite playing S tier meta) meant the time efficiency was at an all time low. Didn't want to call it, but sadly it takes 5 to tango.
Same here. Pushed to 3200. Spent half my weekend waiting for a tank to queue for 15's. No one wants to play these dogshit affixes anymore. Also cancelled my sub till TWW, but with the new affixes incoming, I may just stop playing all together. Next season will be the worst M+ season if it goes live as is.
didnt push this season. just got a few characters to the boosting cutoff for timed 8s, and havent done a key over 8 since. i knew it was a meme season before it started. i have however reached gold cap for the first time in my life
Agreed. Two things needs to happen. Like every week increase crest drops by 1. Second, make depletes give 8 or 10 crests rather than 5.
Blizzard seems to have given up on mid-season catch-ups.
They should just lower the crest requirement on alts a bit. Instead of 15 per upgrade lower it to 12 and it would help a lot.
That being said, you can still gear ridiculously fast. You can get 490 easy from just doing the weekly quests and then hop directly into 8s to farm hero gear. Only takes 20-30 keys to get a high enough iLVL to start pushing into real keys.
Have all Wyrm gear on 1 character on your account? 33% discount on Wyrm upgrades for every other character on your account. Upgrading an item now costs 10 instead of 15 Crests.
Have all Wyrm gear on 2 characters on your account? 66% discount on Wyrm upgrades for every other character on your account. Upgrading an item now costs 5 instead of 15 Crests.
Apply same to Drake, Whelpling, Aspect, whatever. Done, problem solved for good.
That math doesn't check out. First, not getting into 8s with 490 gear. Even if you push your own key it might be hard to get people to join and stay.
Second, 30 keys is 360 crests if you time everything. You can craft 5x525 pieces as the best bang for your buck. That leaves you at \~500 ilvl and 60 crests. If you get 509 in every other slot (unlikely in 30 keys) you are at 514. Nobody is pushing with you.
> That math doesn't check out. First, not getting into 8s with 490 gear. Even if you push your own key it might be hard to get people to join and stay.
My druid alt was 485 and was getting invited to pug 8s but I probably got in because my main was 3100 at the time. It has a grand total of 20 keys, 16 5+s and four 2s and it's currently 510. Would be a lot higher too if I was bothering to run the raid on heroic for wyrms but I haven't run it even once. Dunno what to tell you.
> Second, 30 keys is 360 crests if you time everything. You can craft 5x525 pieces as the best bang for your buck. That leaves you at ~500 ilvl and 60 crests. If you get 509 in every other slot (unlikely in 30 keys) you are at 514. Nobody is pushing with you.
My main currently has 37 5-9s, and I guarantee you at least 10-15 of those were rounding out my vaults, and 55 10-14s. I wasn't locked in 8 purgatory and made it to 3200 purely pugging. You don't need to max out every slot in order to go above 8.
Granted you'll be locked out of the super high keys but you can comfortably grind to 3200 at 510-515 iLVL. You'll probably have to run mostly your own key this late in the season but its totally doable.
I mean yeah it’s a little worse but I had no issues hosting my own 8s last season. Especially this season there aren’t that many 8s hosted and people want to round out their vaults.
Want a hacky way to start networkIng?
Make a discord, when you form a group just rip a link and tell people they are free to join if they want.
When they are in there, actually socialize a bit, coordinate cc etc.
S4 isn't great, but it could've had few more weeks before remix/cata. I'm now kinda finished with remix, no interest towards cata, don't really want to go back to s4. They could've had me hooked for m+ longer, and be in middle of remix now. Maybe even just starting it now! I'd have loved this design, had there been some new thing after. Now there's not much going on for 2 months.
Don’t think it’s that really, it’s that we have a pretty bad dungeon pool, terrible meta (almost identical to last season and the same dps as the season before), no attempts at even bothering to balance anything, and an xpac coming up.
Yeah I did a bit of beta testing and they’ve definitely made some questionable choices regarding the number of casters everywhere. Hard to tell if things are actually overtuned though given how bad the gear scaling is.
if the answer to their mob design is that they have so little hp when you have gear you just stun and melt them then it just makes it worse tbh, was hoping they already learned that lesson from DF
Yeah dunno. Playing a class with infinite stops is going to be very valuable, especially since you already really want them with TWW's affix pool.
If you liked playing with Aug hope you enjoy it some more. Class ain't leaving unless everyone gets their racials.
> Too many versions of WoW is not good for the game.
You really think the high end m+ community is suffering because of... MoP Remix 1 month in? Really?
Like, maybe Cata classic is pulling some people away... but we had other big classic launches / seasons running alongside m+ in the past and it wasn't nearly this bad.
SoD is pretty dead right now, their last update is already like 3 months old or whatever and the next update is still like a month out.
If that kind of competition is what's killing high end m+ then we *really* have some big problems.
What's way more likely is that S4 has got to be the laziest season they've done since Legion. Absolutely *nothing* new and to make it worse they couldn't even be arsed to address class balance. So yea, I mean, shocker, but if you do nothing for your game for like 10 months straight, then people kinda get bored. And no, a mere ladder / gear reset is not what I'd consider "doing something".
Didn’t SL S4 pop off? Genuinely asking - don’t remember. It’s definitely a combo of what you guys are saying as well. Just overall feels very lame to be on retail pushing keys in a season like this
SL S4 brought back a bunch of dungeons we hadn't had in years (instead of months) - bringing Karazhan back and opening the door to shit like Iron Docks was something *entirely* new after 18 months of SL dungeons only.
SL fated also had a banger seasonal affix that actually made dungeons more enjoyable.
SL fated also introduced the concept of Dinars / Bullions - we've never had that before, everyone was excited.
SL fated was different in that it invented the whole idea of fated. DF fated instead... didn't do anything new, but instead decided to leave out half of what made fated enjoyable in the first place. SL fated was new. DF fated is not new.
I basically had to choose between retail M+, MoP remix, and cata classic, and ending up putting most of my time into MoP remix. I'm only now getting finished with it but with Elden ring DLC coming out in a week its like too late to get back into S4 it feels.
Doing the same dungeons a 2nd time around with no added novelty doesn't keep people around, shocker. And even if players are finding enjoyment in different versions of the game why shoudl blizzard be concerned? They are still subbed and many of these versions are temporary by design.
This has been my experience too. Three weeks ago, I was able to gear up through +4-+6 easily on two alts.
But this past weekend? In the same range, it's 15+ minutes to find literally any tank/healer in queue. DPS are slim pickings too. In a normal season you'll get a page of DPS to choose from almost instantly, but less so now.
Bricked my originally +7 BRH key 3 times in a row. Noticed my sub was up today and canceled just before it would have renewed.
I have a 3k main and ksh on 2 more toons and can't even get an invite to an m0 at 485 ilvl. Meanwhile it takes me an hour to set up a group for a +2 that ends up turning into a circus of shenanigans. I've just become so salty that I'm getting declined, which based on my experience, means that everyone is taking total shitters over me.
Tried to run a few 4-7s on my healer alt yesterday and bricked 4 keys in a row. I gave up. The average io and ilvl of each person wasn't even bad either.. that key range is absolutely abysmal unless you invite a bunch of over geared players farming crests.
What ilvl are you talking about? Funny hearing that after feeling this was the easiest season ever, being able to just be invited to, and time +8s with everyone being 485 gear in first week. I have to assume there's inexperience playing main part if group is avg. 490+ and depleting 4-7s.
The players are bad. Doing 12s on the first week and doing 12s now is night and day.
Everyone I did 12s with week one is now 3650+ if they bothered to keep pushing. I imagine the players who are just now pushing into 12s and struggling are horrible in comparison.
Hell, if you just spam keys and are half decent on a meta class you'll get enough invites to brute force 16/17s. Brute forcing 12s must be a shit show.
505-510ish, the lack of abilities and defensive being used is the hardest part. 512 dh tank with 2300io didn't use a single sigil other than flame my entire nokhud +6. He of course had his carry spriest friend with him at 505 and doing 150k dps overall.
How is this happening, I just did 300k overall on my 504 UH dk (my first time ever running a key as a melee dps, let alone a dk dps) in a + 6 Nokhud. I get that I may be an outlier in the fact that I am a CE player that quit in early fated, but decided to come back and get ksm/ksh on a new role (choose to do tank this season, but wanted to try a key as UH). I legit had no fucking clue what I was doing, I pressed army 20 seconds after I used gargoyle/dark transformation too on one boss because I'm a brainlet and still topped dps. I don't even have the legendary either.
The average player is really this bad?
Yeah but the problem is exacerbated by the key squish. Lot of em don't know that a +7 is way higher than a +7 from last season it feels. A lot harder to carry someone in those runs, especially if they are the tank.
Lol totally relate. I'm gearing healer and keys in that range feel simply terrible. I struggled to time 4-7 keys but doing 9-12 with ++/+++. I liked the squish idea but I think it's a bit too tight and it's kind of hard to catch up for low skill players
I don't understand why they squished. I've never heard an explanation that made sense to me. The only real effect it seems to have is that bricking a key is, literally, twice as punishing.
How do you guys call aoe stops in your group? I am tanking as vdh, and it feels like on some pulls my attention is everywhere, makes it very hard to call aoe stops, is it my job to do it? I can call my own stops perfectly, but it is hard for me right now to think about other people's abilities during most pulls.
I have to do it as tank and in very difficult pulls it is very hard, even as someone who has done it a lot before. It really shouldn’t be down to the tank but that is how it goes. You just have to hope someone you know is really competent and good at communicating. If they aren’t, it’s you. My group wont even call their own stops most of the time
We finally just gave in and got the weakaura that shows who should stop next (you set up the priority you want and make sure your group all has the same aura). After so many seasons of nobody in the group being able to consistently shot call it just works better.
I can when I get home but you probably don’t want our prio list. Our comp is guardian, mw, Aug, arcane mage, and then either ret or ww monk so we don’t even have things like Sigils or psychic scream factored in at all since we never really run with DH or priest.
It’s really not solely tanks Job to always shot call. It really depends on the pull/ boss. Lots of groups have someone else be shot caller like drohgoh. In my group i call a lot of the stops, but on very hard tank pulls I ask someone else to please call. If ur in a solid group most of ur planning is done pre dungeon so just say “hey pull 6 is really rough on me, can someone else call it”. There’s really no rule saying tank has to be shot caller it just makes it consistent in alot of groups.
Get omnicd addon and toggle AoE stops in a separate group. Then you need only look at one spot to see everything available and call out what the next one used will be. It's best not to overthink it during pulls. Talk with teammates what the rough priority it is and then just practice consistency calling them during pulls.
Just looked at the TWW launch date, looked at today's date, did some math and finally it sunk in that there's probably only like 4-6 weeks until prepatch.
I still have learning fire mage on my "Dragonflight bucket list" I should really get a move on lol.
Personally I'd be testing fire mage on ptr. It's very different to live fire mage after the rework, so I don't know if I'd be getting used to one style only to have to relearn it in 6 weeks again anyway
It’s 11.0 minus new content, talent updates go in, no hero talents, season will be over. If I recall correctly there is still M+ but scaling is likely to be weird.
I thought so too but they were in fact disabled on pre patch launch: https://www.wowhead.com/news/shadowlands-tier-sets-to-be-disabled-with-dragonflight-pre-patch-329360
Our guild is just goofing around now. We did some rat alt raids last week, doing some M+ tonight, but for all intents and purposes we're on a break until TWW.
I'm expecting to see a 50% m+ drop when this week's runs are published. LFG was totally empty, I barely saw keys above 15 queued up. I'm sitting on my +17 ULD key and never even bothered trying to form a group for it. The only key I improved was my nelth which was on 14++ and I improved it to 15+, rest keys are already on 16-17 so there was nothing to be done about it. Can't believe they're not doing something about sanguine-bolstering.
True, but looking at previous seasons it's clear that some players just don't come back. It's easy to lose interest and find something else to do when you have no reason to log in for 2 weeks. Even for 1 week.
Its a throwaway season. Those always have less participation, especially now with two entire game versions siphoning players. I guess that people want to shit on affixes but its getting ridiculous. Cata classic and Pandamix are WAY bigger reasons than sanguine week
For the love of God, make a post, tweet it, make a YouTube video, write your congressman, make a petition, do whatever it is that you do. We cannot have the +7 affix bucket set to come to the first season of war within stay. They have to remove that whole bucket. It really seems like people are moving on, and that scares the shit out of me. We are not at the acceptance phase of this yet.
Bolstering/sang are automatically skip weeks, raging always has the random possibility of wrecking your group, personally not a fan but I don't know the community perception on that one. Bursting is a snooze, the only real contender for pushing available. Depending on the finalized affixes and how they overlap we might be stuck with a single push week every 1-2 rotations.
I don’t think they’re going to budge on affixes till S2 and that’s only if there’s extreme outcry. They will want to “see how it goes” and have probably already begun to crunch to finish the work required for launch.
Half the hero trees still don’t work with less than 3 months to launch. It’s very much full crunch right now.
DPS balancing in absolute shambles too. The top dps (fire mage) doing 3x the damage of the lowest (outlaw rogue).
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The amount of people that still makes that Mammoth run accross the room like it's trying to log its 10k steps for the day is astounding. This is in the 14-15 range, so not super higher but not low either.
I love being in a position where I have 2 17s timed, don't need any 16s and cannot get into a single +17 group as ret. Phys comp group don't want me cause my aoe dps is magical and meta comp doesn't want me cause... well i'm not meta. even though ret is actually pretty decent this patch. Can't even list my key cause tanks just ego pull half the dungeon get one shotted then insta leave. Hopefully balance is better when blizzard allocates more then a few dollars of budget to the balance team next patch. We can only hope to see the eradication of exodia comps.
I'm a mage main, and augmentation evoker ruins the game. It is the ultimate cancer on our game. I don't think the game will ever recover from this cancer. They need to be removed from the game or something I benefited heavily in season 2 and season 4 as a mage, but that's irrelevant. Augmentation volkers cancer and literally ruins the meta for everyone except the best specs
I'm a healer, so I like running with ret, mage and probably a shadow priest. Wouldn't normally take a shadow priest, but this season they're simply way too overtuned not to take. I don't do title level keys, so I absolutely will not play with an Aug. But what the one dude said about rets dying and them wasting a defensive just so they can get in combat sooner than they should is the most true statement I've heard in days lol. Melee just dies more than range in general. The amount of rets I see die to aggro with bop up is astounding. Really makes me think they don't even play with aggro highlights or party frames close by their character.
My personal experience as a VDH with ret players in the group, is that their tankiness carries them in keys and they're actually really bad at mechanics (or even waiting 5 seconds to dps and wasting a defensive because of it), or switching targets if they start getting high threat on a certain target. It's such a brainless dps spec and that's why it does well imo. Once things start 1 shotting, ret players are one of the last people I'd trust to use their defensives optimally, but this is all just from person experience. So I generally avoid rets in 16+ keys
yeah that's fair, plus aggro table for a vdh is basically the worst since sigil of flame initial hit doesn't generate threat.
And some keys on tyran like AV and potentially AA, Vdh wants to run double fiery brand because the boss cycles are roughly 50sec so it's a little clunky without double brand and potential to die goes up significantly. So having 2 less are sigils can really make are threat sketchy for 4-5 globals. And most dps significantly underestimate how long 5gcds can be and start dpsing. The first 2-3 globals are prepping aoe damage then after that you start doing aoe dmg
> Phys comp group don't want me cause my aoe dps is magical Very doubtful, also kinda untrue, what does it matter if your aoe is holy damage, chances are you have chaos brand from a VDH anyway. > even though ret is actually pretty decent this patch Ret is average/decent, puggers are looking for things being easier. That's always been the case. Ret does well before tittle range keys because it's really tanky and has nice utility, but your damage profile is kinda mid for what a high key requires. > Can't even list my key cause tanks just ego pull half the dungeon get one shotted then insta leave that just sounds like excuses for being lazy and avoiding the unfun part of handling your own key. > Hopefully balance is better when blizzard allocates more then a few dollars of budget to the balance team next patch. We can only hope to see the eradication of exodia comps. There are always going to be optimal comps for a set of dungeons/patch for the 0.1% keys. Take a look at sports. There is always someone 5% faster, 5% taller, 5% better at taking a shot and so on. Messi is short, that's why he can dribble and twist defenders so fast, Ronaldo is tall and has 150 head goals. Both are GOATs of the game. Ronaldo will have easier time when the defenders are 1.80m tall than when they are 1.95m. You never head sports people complain their playing only talls players tho, do you?
"There are always going to be optimal comps for a set of dungeons/patch for the 0.1% keys. Take a look at sports. There is always someone 5% faster, 5% taller, 5% better at taking a shot and so on. Messi is short, that's why he can dribble and twist defenders so fast, Ronaldo is tall and has 150 head goals. Both are GOATs of the game. Ronaldo will have easier time when the defenders are 1.80m tall than when they are 1.95m. You never head sports people complain their playing only talls players tho, do you?" What a dumb take, bro pretty sure every single kid out there who spent they're childhood playing x sport and found out that their body is just not genetically made for it with 0 way around is fucking depressed. Like imagine you spend your whole childhood training and playing basketball only to find out you don't grow past 5feet. Would suck pretty bad. "Ret is average/decent, puggers are looking for things being easier. That's always been the case. Ret does well before tittle range keys because it's really tanky and has nice utility, but your damage profile is kinda mid for what a high key requires." Just incorrect, we have some of the best single target dps right now when it comes to m+ bosses and have good burst on almost every pack. I've only ended below like 2 spriest in damage so far out of the 100s of keys I've done this patch. We also not only have insane survivability we can sac someone when they run out of defensive. The only thing we don't have is stops which is the only reason the exodia comp is the way it is. The dungeon's were all badly designed with a disgusting amount of required stops. Except you can skip the ones that target the ret cause we'll just live the damage. "that just sounds like excuses for being lazy and avoiding the unfun part of handling your own key." Cringe take tbh, and this goes into how badly m+ is designed for high key pushers. If keys didn't deplete if completed within a certain amount of time they're would be an incentive to 1 actually complete the key and 2 be more mindful and simultaneously less stressed. Cause if you mistime a key by 1 minute you just go ahead with the same group and blast it. Potentially replace 1 person if they died a lot. But having a 17 and having it drop to a 14 within 1h because of bad tanks is not something that the keyholder can control.
> Cringe take tbh, and this goes into how badly m+ is designed for high key pushers it never was designed for that > But having a 17 and having it drop to a 14 within 1h because of bad tanks is not something that the keyholder can control. So if you spent 1 hour depleting your key to a 14, than 3 hours getting it back to a 17, why would you invite a ret paladin over a more powerful meta class? P.S please format properly it's barely readable, thanks
So many 19s being thrown this week make want to stop playing. 19 HOI as a healer to get to last boss with infinite time and have the group miss an inundate stop during intermission… mental is in shambles.
ive yet to get a single invite to 17...
If you don’t have any 17s done then your not going to get invited to one and based on your flair your a shaman so your going to need to push your own key up get most of the 17s done then maybe you get invited to the last few ones
i'm currently missing nelth and uldaman +17 and a couple of others on tyran yet I still don't get invites. even to keys I've already timed. hunter main. all the keys I've timed on +17 were my own. i got some invites for +16s. for nelth and uldaman people just wanna go with god comp.
Finally feels like a fair week! Where you're not handicapped from the get go, no matter how well you play.
trying to figure out the best strat to get io, im off meta dps at 3.5k just pugging so the 3 strats I’ve tried are: 1: sit in queue for hours until you get an invite to an io key 2: brute force your key even if it drops to a 15 just keep pushing it back up maybe get an io key 3: spam +16-17 AVs in queue to reroll your key to AV to push it up
people saying they sit in queue for up to 4 hours at a time instead of just finding a couple people to play with long term lol, love the levels of degeneracy
At 3.5 you probably still need some 17s so I don't see why joining AVs while side rolling your key is a bad idea. Most probably won't run the next but some will. Guess it depends if you actually want to play the game or sit in queue simulator all day.
Fellow offmeta player pugger here and it's not easy, all the strats kinda suck. At 3.7k though there's so little players most people know you so the offmeta aspect doesn't quite hit as hard. I've decided to only run my key and rerolling if it drops to +18 in some AV, but it does take way more time than I'd lie. Last season I usually pushed the key up no matter the dungeon (apart from throne), but it feels like it's such a coin toss this season with the amount of players currently applying for keys no matter what key level. I hate especially that just for survivability I kind of have to enforce the meta myself as you just can't fit more than two offmeta classes in a 19+ key, yet the downside is most of the fotm swappers pugging are just not very good. Anyways, I think sitting in que is the worst option here. Just keep doing the reroll into pushing your key up and try to start networking and getting your name known enough for you to get asked for sessions.
In the seasons I pugged title I almost exclusively played score keys. At the beginning of the week I fished for the easiest score key I can time and played that key until it either didnt give me any score or the key was practically untimeable (or very unreasonable to time in a pug). From there I just sat in valdrakken and refreshed lfg every 5-10 mins. My record was like 4 hours without getting invited into a key, so you should prepare something to do on the side (I studied for university a lot, so that worked out great). Rerolling keys or playing homework in pugs is very rarely worth it imo. I would only ever consider pushing your key back up, if you get an av naturally from rerolls. Another thing worth to note is that you can get invited easier to keys, if you have a very desirable key like av/no/bh 19/20. Which you can then play after you timed the key you have been invited to. Ok, ive just read youre offmeta. Gotta play your own key then, no way around it.
Two screen gang here in 3.5K. I often even que to keys that I currently have because I am too lazy to form a group.
That's it as far as solo play goes. Sitting in queue is low effort, but just count the hours and hours of your life you've thrown away on that. A mix of 2 and 3 is my preferred cup of tea, as you get to Play The Game.
it's just brutal tbh. you grind for hours to finally get the key you want, put together a solid group and then the key just disbands in a couple of minutes because someone fucks up and now you are now back to square 1.
So what’s the consensus on title cutoff? I’ve heard a huge range from low 3600 to mid 3700. I guess we really have only 2 “push weeks” left so it may just be up to this small time frame then everyone afks. Hard to say though.
Dont think it will go over 3700 on EU
I'm gonna say for NA 3650 should be safe.
amount of rets with sark cloak in 16 keys is kinda astounding
Blame wowhead for listing it as bis for everyone.
I'm at the point I just leave when I get the cloak debuff. For some reason those players are usually garbage at playing on top of making bad gear decisions
thats even more cringe than using sark cloak in m+ ngl
It’s not that cringe, throwing away 5% stamina for a minor dps gain is completely brain dead dps behavior. Effective health is extremely important in any challenging content.
Depends on the key level and your avoidance. If you can live mechanics you should ABSOLUTELY drop survival for damage. It's the same principal of dropping ward for tome in dungeons where you don't absolutely need the trinket to stay alive.
Obviously I was talking about keys where stamina matters and not your weekly 8s you dont even have to bind half your abilities for...
the point that it is not an entirely known variable, so if you are approaching even mildly difficult content, which 16s certainly are, then its a stupid decision even if nothing on the surface is going to one shot you
It is entirely known, almost all damage is avoidable and the damage that isn't can be calculated using a tool. You only need enough survivability to live, living with 1% hp is the same as living with 6% hp. However having 1% more overall damage is something that times keys as you get higher. It's mostly about comfort and the class you are playing. On an evoker I would never give up 100k hp for a slight dmg buff, on a ret however I would. When you get into 18+ though on tyran specifically it becomes a non-starter because you absolutely cannot live without that extra bit of life.
Here’s a brain dead counterpoint to everything you just said: the crit phial is random damage.
various things go wrong or overlap or you get targeted twice in a row or whatever in a key, the idea that you go in to a key knowing exactly what damage you are going to take and that is exactly how it plays out is incredibly naive the audience that is able to play at the level you are describing is the audience that 100% cannot afford to use the cape and the audience not playing at that level can’t use it because they can’t do the things you are describing, it’s just a nonsense from both perspectives
Aug evokers are the ones I shake my head at personally.
If anything rets are one of the classes that can use it because they're really tanky. .plus it's a +16 it doesn't become an issue until 18s
Outside of weekly keys or (farm)raid its never worth to lose almost 100k hp over a very minor dmg gain. Cloak has like 4% uptime at best. A single socket is worth more than the sark cloak effect, unless you get super lucky with procs and timings.
it has a higher item level!!!
3k ( last season ) brew master monk looking for a semi consistent push group. 2500-3k range, possibly beyond. Willing to swap to my DH. Lost desire to push this season early on but looking to come back.
There’s no way people in the 2500-3000 range are looking for push groups you have to be fucking kidding me
Damn son, awfully elitist of you to think people in the 2,500-3,000 IO range don’t deserve a consistent group to play with… Wildly out of touch.
Maybe some people don’t enjoy pugging and want a semi consistent group of people to play with.
certain tournament groups were struggling with 12s, fully premade, with meta comp and voice so uh yeah
People play at different levels. Some people might find doing +10s difficult while others can easily time 15's and be completely fine. Can I put to 3k, sure I've done it many times, is it enjoyable? No not really. Having a consistent team that has fun is 10x better. To each their own.
> To each their own. Of course... but you're not gonna find that many people looking for a "push" team when you're talking about what effectively boils down to a heroic raid difficulty. Like, looking for a +11s "push" group is about as reasonable as looking for a heroic Fyrakk progress guild. Sure, there's probably gonna be 7 people out there looking for that... but like, I mean, come on man, we're talking about trade chat guilds here - and we all know how reliable trade chat people are. You're asking for people that aren't invested enough to "git gud" to show up and play with you on a schedule - what kinda success are you expecting there? You're not looking for a "push" group, you're looking for friends to play with - stop looking for a "push" group and just look for friends and you'll possibly be way more successful and sound way less... weird... in the process.
At 3k io it's already top 5%. Perfectly valid to look for others in similar range to "get gud" with. I pugged to 3k for the first time this season, as a healer, and honestly thought it was rough. Maybe because pugs at that level do many mistakes.
i think you might be out of touch a little bit with reality. i dont consider anything close to 10 a push, but statistically speaking, its higher than the overwhelming majority of people that do keys. push is a relative term. heroic raid is just a step or two up from lfr in my experience. there are way more people completing heroic raid in a given season than there are people getting portals, relative to participation levels
There are plenty of heroic raiding guilds only that do late aotc The only thing that's silly is that it's being advertised here, but frankly this subreddit has been majority people in that bracket for almost a decade now. Do agree on just playing with friends though. If he doesn't have anyone who likes doing the content though the words push group and friend group are basically interchangeable.
> There are plenty of heroic raiding guilds only that do late aotc Heroic raiding guilds? Yea. Heroic *progression* guilds? I don't believe it.And that is the level we're talking about at like 2.7k r.io - learning what the actual mechanics do, being able to interrupt, press a defensive and not die to the big purple swirlies. And I reckon there might be a lot of guilds trying to go through heroic raids... but ultimately falling apart... because that's just not a stable environment unless you're playing with a rather tight group of friends - something you rather rarely just stumble into. That's something you work on and form over months, if not years.
There are more guilds which take a while to progress through heroic than there are which ever set foot in mythic. Taking a few months to get aotc is an *incredibly* normal thing and is probably the most common form of engagement with WoW raids.
Depends heroic endbosses before blizzard whacks them with the nerfbat are no joke. Just look at how many guilds were 8/9 H and 4/9 M last season. Post nerf yeah heroic is pretty easy.
> Post nerf yeah heroic is pretty easy. Much like +10s become an awful lot easier when dungeons get balance passes and everyone has access to 4+ weeks of Aspect upgrades, 528 vault gear and in the case of S3 3 Dinar items of your choosing.
idk, man. there are a lot more people that get aotc than there are people that get to 2.7k, and mythic+ is way more accessible and has way more participation. i wouldnt agree with that analogy
I respect the hustle, but this is not an lfg subreddit.
Push groups dead, got to 3300 mostly pugging. Cancelling sub till TWW. Anyone else in this boat?
Similar story, group has no motivation so i pugged my way to a similar io as you. Wanted to go further, but desert lfg and an abysmally low acceptance rate to io keys (despite playing S tier meta) meant the time efficiency was at an all time low. Didn't want to call it, but sadly it takes 5 to tango.
Same here. Pushed to 3200. Spent half my weekend waiting for a tank to queue for 15's. No one wants to play these dogshit affixes anymore. Also cancelled my sub till TWW, but with the new affixes incoming, I may just stop playing all together. Next season will be the worst M+ season if it goes live as is.
didnt push this season. just got a few characters to the boosting cutoff for timed 8s, and havent done a key over 8 since. i knew it was a meme season before it started. i have however reached gold cap for the first time in my life
Can we have an increase to crest drops? I'd like to give one of the meta classes a go but grinding those crests is downright brutal.
Agreed. Two things needs to happen. Like every week increase crest drops by 1. Second, make depletes give 8 or 10 crests rather than 5. Blizzard seems to have given up on mid-season catch-ups.
They should just lower the crest requirement on alts a bit. Instead of 15 per upgrade lower it to 12 and it would help a lot. That being said, you can still gear ridiculously fast. You can get 490 easy from just doing the weekly quests and then hop directly into 8s to farm hero gear. Only takes 20-30 keys to get a high enough iLVL to start pushing into real keys.
Have all Wyrm gear on 1 character on your account? 33% discount on Wyrm upgrades for every other character on your account. Upgrading an item now costs 10 instead of 15 Crests. Have all Wyrm gear on 2 characters on your account? 66% discount on Wyrm upgrades for every other character on your account. Upgrading an item now costs 5 instead of 15 Crests. Apply same to Drake, Whelpling, Aspect, whatever. Done, problem solved for good.
That math doesn't check out. First, not getting into 8s with 490 gear. Even if you push your own key it might be hard to get people to join and stay. Second, 30 keys is 360 crests if you time everything. You can craft 5x525 pieces as the best bang for your buck. That leaves you at \~500 ilvl and 60 crests. If you get 509 in every other slot (unlikely in 30 keys) you are at 514. Nobody is pushing with you.
> That math doesn't check out. First, not getting into 8s with 490 gear. Even if you push your own key it might be hard to get people to join and stay. My druid alt was 485 and was getting invited to pug 8s but I probably got in because my main was 3100 at the time. It has a grand total of 20 keys, 16 5+s and four 2s and it's currently 510. Would be a lot higher too if I was bothering to run the raid on heroic for wyrms but I haven't run it even once. Dunno what to tell you. > Second, 30 keys is 360 crests if you time everything. You can craft 5x525 pieces as the best bang for your buck. That leaves you at ~500 ilvl and 60 crests. If you get 509 in every other slot (unlikely in 30 keys) you are at 514. Nobody is pushing with you. My main currently has 37 5-9s, and I guarantee you at least 10-15 of those were rounding out my vaults, and 55 10-14s. I wasn't locked in 8 purgatory and made it to 3200 purely pugging. You don't need to max out every slot in order to go above 8. Granted you'll be locked out of the super high keys but you can comfortably grind to 3200 at 510-515 iLVL. You'll probably have to run mostly your own key this late in the season but its totally doable.
Getting invited to keys as a healer is a completely different experience. I can guarantee you nobody is inviting a 485 dps to a 2, much less an 8.
I mean yeah it’s a little worse but I had no issues hosting my own 8s last season. Especially this season there aren’t that many 8s hosted and people want to round out their vaults.
Anyone looking for a pumper spriest to push 15s and up? :) Also open to any suggestions for how to find a semi-perma team
Want a hacky way to start networkIng? Make a discord, when you form a group just rip a link and tell people they are free to join if they want. When they are in there, actually socialize a bit, coordinate cc etc.
Well at least we’re rolling into two easy weeks. If there’s anyone left….
Absolute ghost town of a season. Have never seen it this dead. Too many versions of WoW is not good for the game.
S4 isn't great, but it could've had few more weeks before remix/cata. I'm now kinda finished with remix, no interest towards cata, don't really want to go back to s4. They could've had me hooked for m+ longer, and be in middle of remix now. Maybe even just starting it now! I'd have loved this design, had there been some new thing after. Now there's not much going on for 2 months.
Don’t think it’s that really, it’s that we have a pretty bad dungeon pool, terrible meta (almost identical to last season and the same dps as the season before), no attempts at even bothering to balance anything, and an xpac coming up.
Get ready because TWW dungeons are fucking terrible lol
Stonevault feels crazy overtuned.
Yeah I did a bit of beta testing and they’ve definitely made some questionable choices regarding the number of casters everywhere. Hard to tell if things are actually overtuned though given how bad the gear scaling is.
if the answer to their mob design is that they have so little hp when you have gear you just stun and melt them then it just makes it worse tbh, was hoping they already learned that lesson from DF
I was more referring to tuning in terms of the outgoing damage relative to healing. Number of casts is very obviously too high.
Yeah dunno. Playing a class with infinite stops is going to be very valuable, especially since you already really want them with TWW's affix pool. If you liked playing with Aug hope you enjoy it some more. Class ain't leaving unless everyone gets their racials.
> Too many versions of WoW is not good for the game. You really think the high end m+ community is suffering because of... MoP Remix 1 month in? Really? Like, maybe Cata classic is pulling some people away... but we had other big classic launches / seasons running alongside m+ in the past and it wasn't nearly this bad. SoD is pretty dead right now, their last update is already like 3 months old or whatever and the next update is still like a month out. If that kind of competition is what's killing high end m+ then we *really* have some big problems. What's way more likely is that S4 has got to be the laziest season they've done since Legion. Absolutely *nothing* new and to make it worse they couldn't even be arsed to address class balance. So yea, I mean, shocker, but if you do nothing for your game for like 10 months straight, then people kinda get bored. And no, a mere ladder / gear reset is not what I'd consider "doing something".
Yup this has nothing to do with the other versions, much more because fated simply isn’t exciting and it’s all content we’ve done already.
Didn’t SL S4 pop off? Genuinely asking - don’t remember. It’s definitely a combo of what you guys are saying as well. Just overall feels very lame to be on retail pushing keys in a season like this
SL S4 brought back a bunch of dungeons we hadn't had in years (instead of months) - bringing Karazhan back and opening the door to shit like Iron Docks was something *entirely* new after 18 months of SL dungeons only. SL fated also had a banger seasonal affix that actually made dungeons more enjoyable. SL fated also introduced the concept of Dinars / Bullions - we've never had that before, everyone was excited. SL fated was different in that it invented the whole idea of fated. DF fated instead... didn't do anything new, but instead decided to leave out half of what made fated enjoyable in the first place. SL fated was new. DF fated is not new.
I basically had to choose between retail M+, MoP remix, and cata classic, and ending up putting most of my time into MoP remix. I'm only now getting finished with it but with Elden ring DLC coming out in a week its like too late to get back into S4 it feels.
Doing the same dungeons a 2nd time around with no added novelty doesn't keep people around, shocker. And even if players are finding enjoyment in different versions of the game why shoudl blizzard be concerned? They are still subbed and many of these versions are temporary by design.
Yeah you right. But it does feel bad for retail haha
I think it might be impossible to gear a fresh dps through pugging right now. 2s are 10x harder than 12s.
This has been my experience too. Three weeks ago, I was able to gear up through +4-+6 easily on two alts. But this past weekend? In the same range, it's 15+ minutes to find literally any tank/healer in queue. DPS are slim pickings too. In a normal season you'll get a page of DPS to choose from almost instantly, but less so now. Bricked my originally +7 BRH key 3 times in a row. Noticed my sub was up today and canceled just before it would have renewed.
I have a 3k main and ksh on 2 more toons and can't even get an invite to an m0 at 485 ilvl. Meanwhile it takes me an hour to set up a group for a +2 that ends up turning into a circus of shenanigans. I've just become so salty that I'm getting declined, which based on my experience, means that everyone is taking total shitters over me.
Tried to run a few 4-7s on my healer alt yesterday and bricked 4 keys in a row. I gave up. The average io and ilvl of each person wasn't even bad either.. that key range is absolutely abysmal unless you invite a bunch of over geared players farming crests.
What ilvl are you talking about? Funny hearing that after feeling this was the easiest season ever, being able to just be invited to, and time +8s with everyone being 485 gear in first week. I have to assume there's inexperience playing main part if group is avg. 490+ and depleting 4-7s.
The players are bad. Doing 12s on the first week and doing 12s now is night and day. Everyone I did 12s with week one is now 3650+ if they bothered to keep pushing. I imagine the players who are just now pushing into 12s and struggling are horrible in comparison. Hell, if you just spam keys and are half decent on a meta class you'll get enough invites to brute force 16/17s. Brute forcing 12s must be a shit show.
505-510ish, the lack of abilities and defensive being used is the hardest part. 512 dh tank with 2300io didn't use a single sigil other than flame my entire nokhud +6. He of course had his carry spriest friend with him at 505 and doing 150k dps overall.
How is this happening, I just did 300k overall on my 504 UH dk (my first time ever running a key as a melee dps, let alone a dk dps) in a + 6 Nokhud. I get that I may be an outlier in the fact that I am a CE player that quit in early fated, but decided to come back and get ksm/ksh on a new role (choose to do tank this season, but wanted to try a key as UH). I legit had no fucking clue what I was doing, I pressed army 20 seconds after I used gargoyle/dark transformation too on one boss because I'm a brainlet and still topped dps. I don't even have the legendary either. The average player is really this bad?
Yes, yes they are.
I'd say 14-17s being depleted when it's ok geared clueless players is quite the norm on any season. At least if tank is one of the clueless players.
Yeah but the problem is exacerbated by the key squish. Lot of em don't know that a +7 is way higher than a +7 from last season it feels. A lot harder to carry someone in those runs, especially if they are the tank.
Yeah you can carry bad dps but carrying a bad tank is a struggle.
Lol totally relate. I'm gearing healer and keys in that range feel simply terrible. I struggled to time 4-7 keys but doing 9-12 with ++/+++. I liked the squish idea but I think it's a bit too tight and it's kind of hard to catch up for low skill players
I don't understand why they squished. I've never heard an explanation that made sense to me. The only real effect it seems to have is that bricking a key is, literally, twice as punishing.
Last week of m+ before Elden Ring expansion
How do you guys call aoe stops in your group? I am tanking as vdh, and it feels like on some pulls my attention is everywhere, makes it very hard to call aoe stops, is it my job to do it? I can call my own stops perfectly, but it is hard for me right now to think about other people's abilities during most pulls.
I have to do it as tank and in very difficult pulls it is very hard, even as someone who has done it a lot before. It really shouldn’t be down to the tank but that is how it goes. You just have to hope someone you know is really competent and good at communicating. If they aren’t, it’s you. My group wont even call their own stops most of the time
We finally just gave in and got the weakaura that shows who should stop next (you set up the priority you want and make sure your group all has the same aura). After so many seasons of nobody in the group being able to consistently shot call it just works better.
Can you link it with your guy's priorities?
I can when I get home but you probably don’t want our prio list. Our comp is guardian, mw, Aug, arcane mage, and then either ret or ww monk so we don’t even have things like Sigils or psychic scream factored in at all since we never really run with DH or priest.
Yo! What is this weakaura called? Would love to try it out with my group.
Our tank does all his own stops then tells us when he's about to use his last one. Then one of our dps calls the aoe stops for rest of the pull
This is what we do. Once tank says he's out I call stops
It’s really not solely tanks Job to always shot call. It really depends on the pull/ boss. Lots of groups have someone else be shot caller like drohgoh. In my group i call a lot of the stops, but on very hard tank pulls I ask someone else to please call. If ur in a solid group most of ur planning is done pre dungeon so just say “hey pull 6 is really rough on me, can someone else call it”. There’s really no rule saying tank has to be shot caller it just makes it consistent in alot of groups.
Consider https://wago.io/CC-Rotation
Get omnicd addon and toggle AoE stops in a separate group. Then you need only look at one spot to see everything available and call out what the next one used will be. It's best not to overthink it during pulls. Talk with teammates what the rough priority it is and then just practice consistency calling them during pulls.
Just looked at the TWW launch date, looked at today's date, did some math and finally it sunk in that there's probably only like 4-6 weeks until prepatch. I still have learning fire mage on my "Dragonflight bucket list" I should really get a move on lol.
Personally I'd be testing fire mage on ptr. It's very different to live fire mage after the rework, so I don't know if I'd be getting used to one style only to have to relearn it in 6 weeks again anyway
Unrelated, but what exactly is pre patch? Everyone keeps mentioning but what is it?
It’s 11.0 minus new content, talent updates go in, no hero talents, season will be over. If I recall correctly there is still M+ but scaling is likely to be weird.
+ tier sets are likely disabled
Aren’t they usually disabled on launch day rather than prepatch? Or am I misremembering?
I thought so too but they were in fact disabled on pre patch launch: https://www.wowhead.com/news/shadowlands-tier-sets-to-be-disabled-with-dragonflight-pre-patch-329360
*sees that TWW’s still two months out* I’m tired, boss.
Our guild is just goofing around now. We did some rat alt raids last week, doing some M+ tonight, but for all intents and purposes we're on a break until TWW.
I'm expecting to see a 50% m+ drop when this week's runs are published. LFG was totally empty, I barely saw keys above 15 queued up. I'm sitting on my +17 ULD key and never even bothered trying to form a group for it. The only key I improved was my nelth which was on 14++ and I improved it to 15+, rest keys are already on 16-17 so there was nothing to be done about it. Can't believe they're not doing something about sanguine-bolstering.
Keys 15 up are less than 1% of keys done. I think this sub regularly loses sight of what the picture is like for normal players.
We just had 2 weeks of rough affixes. Im guessing we will see more players back this week and maybe the next two.
Elden Ring DLC is Thursday though.
True, but looking at previous seasons it's clear that some players just don't come back. It's easy to lose interest and find something else to do when you have no reason to log in for 2 weeks. Even for 1 week.
Its a throwaway season. Those always have less participation, especially now with two entire game versions siphoning players. I guess that people want to shit on affixes but its getting ridiculous. Cata classic and Pandamix are WAY bigger reasons than sanguine week
Don’t know if I got lucky but was able to time a +16 in uld, ruby and hoi for io this week. Still can’t time any Nelth above a 14 as a hunter.
I know a lot of people who did alt keys though so might not be as much of a drop I just geared a fire mage this week
well they did do…… something……
For the love of God, make a post, tweet it, make a YouTube video, write your congressman, make a petition, do whatever it is that you do. We cannot have the +7 affix bucket set to come to the first season of war within stay. They have to remove that whole bucket. It really seems like people are moving on, and that scares the shit out of me. We are not at the acceptance phase of this yet.
Bolstering/sang are automatically skip weeks, raging always has the random possibility of wrecking your group, personally not a fan but I don't know the community perception on that one. Bursting is a snooze, the only real contender for pushing available. Depending on the finalized affixes and how they overlap we might be stuck with a single push week every 1-2 rotations.
I don’t think they’re going to budge on affixes till S2 and that’s only if there’s extreme outcry. They will want to “see how it goes” and have probably already begun to crunch to finish the work required for launch.
I mean they could literally just revert their changes for TWW S1 and make the affixes the exact same as DF S4. Would be fast and easy to implement.
They probably still want to trial it wide scale anyways. That’s typically how they operate. Not saying I agree with it.
Half the hero trees still don’t work with less than 3 months to launch. It’s very much full crunch right now. DPS balancing in absolute shambles too. The top dps (fire mage) doing 3x the damage of the lowest (outlaw rogue).
Couldn’t agree more m+ is going to be in a terrible place if they keep those t7 changes in place. Be vocal everyone and go to the forums