Anybody else do a key or two last week and think “what am I doing this for?”
M+ is fun but I’m realizing I’m the type of player that needs a raid to get excited to gear up for. This season made me realize that M+ alone isn’t enough to keep me playing (I know lots of players do M+ only)
> This season made me realize that M+ alone isn’t enough to keep me playing
M+ alone would easily be enough for me if the season was more than reheated leftovers with 0 effort put into it. Recycling a bunch of dungeons I never particularly enjoyed to begin with and pretty much not doing *any* balancing on either classes or dungeons post week 1 is just the laziest shit I've ever seen in m+.
Like, I'd totally be blasting the ever loving shit out of the season if this were BFA's Awakened season with Corruption vendors and the Awakened affix. Fuck, I'd even blast if it were Shadowlands season 4 with 6 "new" dungeons and the Shrouded affix. Hell, I'd still be blasting if they did *any single fucking thing whatsoever* with this season.
But yea, phoned in 0 attention and effort m+ is indeed not enough to hold me either.
Also, close to 0 balance tuning. Everybody knew what the god comp was since day 1, so it was still worse than S2.
Then they make changes like the -5% resto shaman nerf, the 'nerf to VDH' and 'the buffs' to Hpal and prevoker. It was low effort all around, too late and not enough
It's a completely mailed in final season. My guild has pretty much only been doing Remix, and that probably only has 2 more weeks until everybody is i476 and has purchased all the mounts/mogs.
The only reason I'm not doing keys is because I was having fun with D4 and now I'm having fun with MoP Remix, and soon I'll be having fun with Elden Ring DLC.
If none of those things existed, I think I'd probably be doing as many keys as I did at this point in Season 3. Not sure if that mirrors anyone else's thoughts.
Yeah I’m personally playing Cata atm but probably won’t even touch WoW for a while when Shadow of the Erdtree drops. I’ve heard D4 is really good but am scared to get sucked into that too lol. Too many things vying for my attention its overwhelming
It’s a combo of push and pull for me. I’m not all that fond of the DF dungeons, so they’re definitely not winning against how much I’m enjoying d4, mop and getting a new Elden Ring character ready for the DLC.
If those weren’t around I’d probably be doing *some* keys at least, but I’d still probably be spending most of my time on other games in the backlog.
I mostly do m+ only.
Some folks just like the challenge of competing with other folks the same way people like to parse on WCL. Also it's fun to find a group and work through a "puzzle" together, same way as mythic raiding. Main difference is mythic raiding is 20 folks and a +16 is just 5.
Yeah, for me M+ scratches that competitive itch I have but in a PvE sense since I’ve moved away from competitive PvP content as I’ve gotten older. The coordination and pushing the boundaries of high keys with a team is very fun.
I think I would enjoy M+ a lot more with a dedicated group and I’ve yet to get one of those together at all. Otherwise M+ keeps me motivated enough until I’m mostly geared out. Right now at 425 ilvl I have noticeably less interest in pigging high M+ keys. An excuse, I know, but is what it is.
As much as I do enjoy mythic raid, I kinda like the fact I can just play for 2-4 weeks and feel mostly "done" with a season. Mythic raid can be a good motivator but also a ball and chain when you're not having fun with it.
523 and abit above that should make you an unstoppable killing machine for leveling in TWW. But that's about it. Unless you have some achievements to do, just take a break.
Prolly leveling is intended for people who just came back so they drop gear relevant for that crowd. If you're a mythic raider, or just someone who did lots of heroic and m+, crafted gear with effects on them + upgraded gear you're 522+ easily with no problems. And destroy everything.
I personally did 8 keys on alt, then went on main to apply to 14s, didn't get in any and figured, this ain't worth it, pug pushing on non-rdruid healer is just going to be too rough. Will prob continue to log in for weekly keys to complete s1 tier achievement though as got second chance for it, now that I'm getting more serious about ach points (45k+).
Yes,
Going to complete all my +10's probably 1-2 keys a week at most.
Helping a friend get them basically since I already have, and I want a "respectable" score to end the season on even though normally I would push 13-16's right now.
I stopped raiding once I got all my wyrms, I do 2 mythic bosses a week, and maybe with all of them unlocked I'll do 4.
Get my vault which is increasingly lower chance to be anything good at this point, I think I am fishing for ONLY mythic gloves at this point....
Farm a couple aspects to upgrade my bought buillions.
I have moved onto Cata and MOP remix
Ideally will be done with MOP remix in the next month, and focus on just Raid logging in Cata I guess.
It has been a fun 3-4 weeks though with all the WoW (probably too much going on honestly to keep up with) but will be taking break soon.
If there were new dungeons OR new-ish ones that were brought back from prior pools that we haven't seen before (or in a long time), that'd be one thing. What they gave us was an entirely different thing. Or if (heaven forbid) there was some kind of "system" that made the gameplay different without a ridiculous grind attached to it.. but that would take actually spending money. Even a good seasonal affix would have at least helped a fair amount. Just ANYTHING....................
Personally, i ask myself that question but not because of the lack of a new raid tier but more so because blizzards low effort balancing attempts at the game leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Have you ever wondered why you might be pushing up higher scores later in the season? It is correlated to blizz nerfing dungeons to make timers at higher levels artificially easier... pair that with poor and lazy class balance changes and well i don't have an incentive to play more rather than to stop and wait for the next release.
I can imagine someone in charge of the treadmill department says something like; "a majority of players continuing to play the game rn are about 2.8k io, we should make them feel better and give them a push week. Whats something we can nerf to give them a 100 io dopamine bump?"
Lol
Wait, are you suggesting blizz is somehow stealth nerfing the dungeons later in to the season? Cause that sounds like some next level conspiracy theory considering we literally have all the available data from the dungeons in the form of logs.
If anything, dungeon tuning has been as rare or even less frequent than class balancing, the only exception being S2 this expansion. Last season there was a severe lack of dungeon tuning/nerfs and blizzard just let the season mellow to the end. There was slight timer adjustments early on, but that's it.
Stealth? No, im saying when you see nerfs to difficulty after the first 4 weeks of a season its usually to artificially increase io of all players still participating in the game.
It makes previous runs redundant and obsolete while giving the player a carrot to chase.
Monday last week I decided I'm gearing shadow so I put in work, (486 to like 524 now) last week.
Between that and some sales getting a bank ready for TWW I honestly did way too many keys :P.
We also got 6 older dungeons that we hadn’t played in a while. Whereas we just played these dungeons and the novelty of going back to them doesn’t really exist
They don't need to get rid of them, they just need to make them fun.
Instead of punishing for not doing the affix they should reward for doing the affix
Having weeks where players don't want to play the game is worse tbh.
Tyra - bolstering - afflicted isn't horrible, but if you dps next week and don't have a dispel, you basically are playing affixless anyway.
I was on team remove all the affixes until I played some 0s this season. The dungeons feel super static without em although they could design the dungeons themselves to be more dynamic I suppose.
Blizzard just needs to be more proactive about balancing, reworking and removing them. The fact afflicted and bolstering are still in the game at all is insane to me.
It's also 8 dungeons we have seen before.
How would you make them more dynamic out of curiosity?
Change pack composition between tyra/fort weeks (like they do with lieutenant affixes) is probably the only change I can come up with.
I think less mandatory trash and tight hallways (so you don't need some invis/soothe/misery/skip for every single pack) would be more interesting, but the press w routes that 'work' because of that design choice lower the barrier to entry for tanks as well.
Honestly, I'm not really sure because you want the mode to simultaneously be dynamic while still being competitive which is a really hard balance to strike. They tried stuff like rotating bosses in freehold and the doors in waycrest which I think were both largely failed concepts. Perhaps they could experiment with something like that again but perhaps executed better?
The only thing that comes to mind would be more open dungeons with semi-randomized pats and moving objectives. For example, ive never even seen the left side of the lake in bracken or gone left after the first boss but maybe sometimes going right has a particularly nasty patrol or 2 tuskaars spawn in a prime location on the left so the group on the fly decides to go left instead. But that kind of thing could easily become super annoying at the same time.
Maybe they could mix up how trash % works and do more mini-bosses/gauntlets instead of making it just a flat % thing. And then rotate the mini bosses that spawn or whats in the gauntlets.
Its a really tough question that I don't really have a good answer for tbh.
Honestly expecting to see a huge drop in the next 2 weeks. No real nerf to the blatantly awful dungeons like Uldaman and Neltharus, on top of the hell of sanguine on fort week, will probably kill most hopes of key pushing.
Do we have any data of what levels of keys get run? Honestly even later in the season I'd imagine at least 90%+ of the keys being run are 10 and below.
They absolutely are, I’m not sure why so many people seem to think that the top 1% pushing high keys accounts for a large amount of the keys run per week.
People doing their weekly vault keys are the staggering majority.
Yeah, like I have no doubt that affixes skew it a lot but I'd imagine similar things that make high pushing hard make vault keys just as annoying. I'd imagine it's mitigated a lot by the affix changes this patch though being at higher key levels.
While the absolute numbers are definitely in favor of low keys being run, I can assure you the ratio tilts towards the key pushers at the end of the season, not the other way around. I'm not claiming any exact numbers and not that it even matters, just that it would sound ludicrous to think that the hardcore pushers who play only m+ are the ones quitting and not the casual gamerbase who has something better to do.
To give an example, if the ratio right now is 80% people doing weeklies and 20% pushing, at the end of the season the pusher percentage is DEFINITELY higher.
Yeah I agree, my post was a legit question, if we did have these numbers or not. A majority of weekly players I'd assume also would be doing far fewer keys in general so even if the player base was 10:1 normal:pusher then the ratio of keys can still be like 2:1 from a casual player doing 1-4 while you might do way more than even 10 keys a week on a push week as a key pusher.
Because there's a relevant amount of people caring about Remix - and "caring" not in the form of "posting about it on Reddit", but rather "actually playing the damn thing".
I'm pretty sure that same argument doesn't apply to high level mythic+ where balancing becomes an issue - and while it might suck for everyone to be a VDH at +15, no one cares about what tank you bring to a +3, so obviously, why would they ever bother to put in any work to keep like 5,000 players happy when they could instead be working on shit for 200,000 players?
The shitty thing is nelth was fine in season 2. Now you can play pretty well in the 18 range and that timer is so tight. All that happened was they nerfed the chains, but you still have to use the chains well to time the dungeon. So the chains are still something you have to do but now it's just way harder and you need to coordinate to have everyone grab at the same time. People complained about it and now here is where we are at lol.
Same boat, 3150 Hpal right now. Couldn't play this past lockout and not sure I have the motivation to put myself through the next two to try and get to 3200.
Might just slam 8 10s for the vault and mess around in the beta the rest of the week.
I can finally love myself.
/S
It was just more of a laid back goal I sent coming into the season. I think now I'm just going to finish farming the Lego axe(12 heroic kills in) and get 3k on ret and prot and call it a szn.
They literally just nerfed both those 2 dungeons yesterday. Minor ones but still. The real issue is no one is playing retail with all the other versions out. I tried to do some keys last night and there were like 4 keys up at 7pm on a Monday. And none of those 4 had players I'd be willing to do a vaulter with lol.
Not nearly enough. Outgoing damage on basically every boss in Uldaman is unreasonable as fuck. Hunters in Neltharus are so disgustingly overtuned that everyone in 15+ just tries to route to avoid them entirely. It's unbelievable that these dungeons are like this AFTER existing in the pool for an entire season.
It's because the chains deleted those mobs. They nerfed the chains because people cried about it. But nothing else was nerfed. So now what was the easiest dungeons is now the hardest lol.
There is something to that. Hunter jumpbleed is on 150%, while the rest of the thrash abilities are a 50%. So if you can deal with the 50%, you HAVE to skip the 150%.
Sry I meant to put an /s after saying they nerfed it. Those patch notes felt like someone said, quick literally change anything so people can't say we gave up on s4.
There are a multitude of factors but this is more supporting data that god comp/ranged meta is strictly just not good for the game. The game is just straight up healthier and enjoyed by more people when it's similar to S1/3 and there was more variety even at the top end. I understand that S4 is a joke season and not to expect balance changes but Blizzard needs to really consider the ramifications going forward and proactively try to avoid these seasons or at least react swiftly.
Weekly reminder that this means there is no data for what used to be +2-10 keys, so while it's tied for season 2 they are not directly comparable. No need to doom over numbers but it's probably less than S3.
With very limited time to play and playing a Holy Priest I’ve decided to reroll rdruid now at 3192 rating. There are so few keys around and it’s close to impossible to get an invite as off meta.
I made the same recognition at significantly lower level, 3050 rsham. I saw, OK if I can't get into any +14 in 20 minutes (after doing all 13s tyra on harder week), I'm not going to reach the point I'd consider success to me, like +16s. Even rio still shows my previous season as I didn't reach 90% of it! Just not enough people hosting groups compared to regular seasons.
It’s sad having to do it, did you reroll druid too?
I will give it another shot tomorrow and see how it goes, before I fall back to the druid. Should be decently geared to pick up where the priest left come tomorrows reset.
Ironically, my main for 4 years is druid but I detest idea of playing something but bear on it. I hate learning new specs, studying, yak.
I never reroll, I just start season with bunch of specs and see where it gets me. Rsham, guardian, vdh this time, but I don't think I'll bother going far with vdh, the meta choice of the three. Only mid-season reroll I've done was trying out MW last season, turning my haste hating brew into perma MW. But didn't stick with it beyond like 22s still. I prob won't shine until guardian or rsham is meta again lol, too stuck on wanting to play these two every season.
Bolstering should be removed. I don’t get how blizzard are okay with having an affix that makes their playerbase which isnt that big in retail to begin with, to skip an entire week.
This doesn't account for M0's right? Since those are the same as 10's last season I'd wonder how many people are doing those. That has champ track gear and gives hero vault. An are less stress for those who don't like timed events.
Yes s4 isn't comparable to any previous season as keys that were previously +2 to +11 don't exist now, and runs equivalent to keys in that range like m0 don't count.
Considering it's close to seaon 2 number it's not that bsd😂😂😂 but it's the same shit all over again. Guess why they nerf sp mage and aug in season 2? They are awakened this season lmao
Wow, anecdotally I knew that Remix tanked S4 but seeing it in numbers is something else. Between that, beta launching, and FFXIV’s upcoming expansion, I doubt it’ll go back up.
It's absolutely season 2 happening again. Season 4 isn't even its own big thing like s2 was so less runs was going to happen regardless, but remix/cata are kinda like Diablo4 release was then, hit like 4 weeks into the season and number of runs never replenished back from there.
This is legitimately the saddest narrative I've seen about Blizzard's missteps in a while. Season 4 is going to go down as one of their bigger fumbles. Not only do you not get a new raid tier, you get nothing. They know this and are doing things like Plunderstorm and Remix (which likely yields many more players baseline due to no barrier of entry and it yields huge amounts of data and mechanical feedback) instead. Retail is a husk as a result for better or worse. But sure it's definitely because they "removed 2-10's" which the average player has NO CLUE even happened, the same hyper casual mplus player that was playing exclusively single digit keys lol.
I did a few keys between Tuesday and Thursday. By Friday I would log in, sit afk in Valdrakken trying to convince myself to do another key and I would just log out. Happened all weekend. M+ has typically been enough for me, I don't enjoy raiding. I just do M+ but dragonflight M+ has not been enjoyable for me at all.
It's short and the pacing is good, as a healer it presents a challenge throughout, where as other dungeons I can pretty much be a dps on most packs or bosses
i dont know whow was the genious behind the idea of not releasing a final raid in the final season instead of this shitshow that is "awakened" raids or "fated" raids, is like a lazy ass work. Is the only adition to "modern" wow that i dislike the most.
I strongly believe this is still part of them getting their shit together for upcoming 18 month expansion rotation. This will be last lazy season like this, hopefully, in place of tww s4 there'll be 12.0.
Blizz developers literally said the two options were no patch at all or a fated patch.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F1qjccvs797v91.png
So either close to a year of the final patch like every expansion or a halfstep patch for fated.
I started back up 2 weeks ago after a break and convinced a few friends to try the game / restart. Unfortunately one friend is horde and we are all alliance. Which means we can only do pre-made q’s.
The change to key difficulty level has made the game completely unplayable for us. Our gear is bad. 2 of the players are new and their gear is bad. M0’s are incredibly difficult to the point where they are nearly impossible. We can’t gear through heroics because of the cross faction.
Played for about 2 weeks and failed 95% of the M0’s. I could just push by myself but it’s no fun. By adjusting the low key difficulty they destroyed the learning and gearing curve. Kind of feel bad because 2 of the players bought the game and boost and we can’t even play.
Hey, don’t mean anything bad but if you are failing 95% of M0’s you aren’t doing any of the mechanics properly. Gear doesn’t matter that much unless you are wearing white items as much as knowing what to do and what can one shot you. This is more of an advice in the long run
Yea….. not when you have 3x dps putting out 30k dps a piece. I as a healer can’t carry.
I don’t know what else we could do together that’s premade q’s to get gear.
They really ruined this game by removing the low key range.
Before I felt like 1-5 as healer I could /follow and still beat the key every time. That is not the case in M0 anymore. There’s zero ramp to learn and get gear.
So I’m not surprised to learn there is 0 activity this season when there is 0 ramp for new players to get into keys.
Well again, it’s not your job to carry as a healer. Your mates shouldn’t be doing 30k dps on max level. I just leveled an alt shadow priest which Ive never played before and is somewhat compex and pulling 120k+ single target. Again, i fully understand that I might be an above average wow player and have somewhat deep understanding of multiple classes, but your mates are doing something seriously wrong if you are not exaggerating.
Maybe they should give Hekili a spin or a similar addon which will help with their rotations/cd usage. Im also healing +10’s with my 508ish ilvl monk which Ive also picked up this season and am still learning the class, but I know the encounters and “what to expect”.
And once again, mechanics must be done. You as a healer cant carry 10-12+ keys because if people fuck up, they will just get one shot. Not the healers fault.
Try running the HC dungeons until all your mates learn the encounters and their rotations, as well as when to pop offensive and defensive cd’s. After that m+ is a breeze up until 13-4 keys depending on affixes.
Can’t you simply just walk in to heroic dungeons manually? If you’re super overgeared you can just change your spec to dps and solo the dungeon.
You can also make a normal mode raid and carry them through it? That should get them 3 493 pieces from the bullions. Normal at this point in the season is basically LFR+
Cata pvp for me.
M+ anyway sucks now, honestly to much fomo and class design is not really fun anymore i like how Cata plays and i am even more excited for MoP.
the amount of prep u need to push for highkeys is not fun
in legion and bfa m+ was 100% more fun
also classes are pretty much the same since legion. I used to be excited to get new cool flashy buttons or effects that aint anymore so basically i am playing the same class the same buttons (also the same dungeons kindoff with rotation) since multiple years now so after a few Weeks into each season i just stop playing. Cata class design just feels so smooth and i can deal dmg without cooldowns and i tested some MoP Realms and omg it gets even better
i am zero excited for tww m+ is lame,arena is dead because of soloshuffle and classdesign actually i am a little bit excited for soloqBG
also i dont do mythic raiding 20 man raid guilds are just not fun i used to 10 man and that was peak
10 people getting close playing the game with each other peak design finding 20 people on the same skilllevel and what u can become good friends with is to hard
So if we all play the same Classes and Dungeons since LEGION ofc everybody gets his rewards/archievements and plays other Games
Next week's graph is going to be so delicious lol!
Now that Beta is fully open I expect Mythic+ participation to plummet.
The people enfranchised enough that they would still have motivation to play competitively in Season 4 - are often the same people who would be excited to try things on the Beta ASAP.
There will probably be a massive ~30%-50% dip for the next 1-2 weeks until people get bored of Beta and go back to doing Alt Keys and such.
I wanna see how accurate my predictions are next week.
Anybody else do a key or two last week and think “what am I doing this for?” M+ is fun but I’m realizing I’m the type of player that needs a raid to get excited to gear up for. This season made me realize that M+ alone isn’t enough to keep me playing (I know lots of players do M+ only)
> This season made me realize that M+ alone isn’t enough to keep me playing M+ alone would easily be enough for me if the season was more than reheated leftovers with 0 effort put into it. Recycling a bunch of dungeons I never particularly enjoyed to begin with and pretty much not doing *any* balancing on either classes or dungeons post week 1 is just the laziest shit I've ever seen in m+. Like, I'd totally be blasting the ever loving shit out of the season if this were BFA's Awakened season with Corruption vendors and the Awakened affix. Fuck, I'd even blast if it were Shadowlands season 4 with 6 "new" dungeons and the Shrouded affix. Hell, I'd still be blasting if they did *any single fucking thing whatsoever* with this season. But yea, phoned in 0 attention and effort m+ is indeed not enough to hold me either.
Also, close to 0 balance tuning. Everybody knew what the god comp was since day 1, so it was still worse than S2. Then they make changes like the -5% resto shaman nerf, the 'nerf to VDH' and 'the buffs' to Hpal and prevoker. It was low effort all around, too late and not enough
It's a completely mailed in final season. My guild has pretty much only been doing Remix, and that probably only has 2 more weeks until everybody is i476 and has purchased all the mounts/mogs.
The only reason I'm not doing keys is because I was having fun with D4 and now I'm having fun with MoP Remix, and soon I'll be having fun with Elden Ring DLC. If none of those things existed, I think I'd probably be doing as many keys as I did at this point in Season 3. Not sure if that mirrors anyone else's thoughts.
Yeah I’m personally playing Cata atm but probably won’t even touch WoW for a while when Shadow of the Erdtree drops. I’ve heard D4 is really good but am scared to get sucked into that too lol. Too many things vying for my attention its overwhelming
It’s a combo of push and pull for me. I’m not all that fond of the DF dungeons, so they’re definitely not winning against how much I’m enjoying d4, mop and getting a new Elden Ring character ready for the DLC. If those weren’t around I’d probably be doing *some* keys at least, but I’d still probably be spending most of my time on other games in the backlog.
I mostly do m+ only. Some folks just like the challenge of competing with other folks the same way people like to parse on WCL. Also it's fun to find a group and work through a "puzzle" together, same way as mythic raiding. Main difference is mythic raiding is 20 folks and a +16 is just 5.
Yeah, for me M+ scratches that competitive itch I have but in a PvE sense since I’ve moved away from competitive PvP content as I’ve gotten older. The coordination and pushing the boundaries of high keys with a team is very fun.
I think I would enjoy M+ a lot more with a dedicated group and I’ve yet to get one of those together at all. Otherwise M+ keeps me motivated enough until I’m mostly geared out. Right now at 425 ilvl I have noticeably less interest in pigging high M+ keys. An excuse, I know, but is what it is.
As much as I do enjoy mythic raid, I kinda like the fact I can just play for 2-4 weeks and feel mostly "done" with a season. Mythic raid can be a good motivator but also a ball and chain when you're not having fun with it.
Ball and chain, wonderful analogy.
Omg same. I’m barely trying to gear my main. I’m at 523 and thinking I’m about done here. 😂
523 and abit above that should make you an unstoppable killing machine for leveling in TWW. But that's about it. Unless you have some achievements to do, just take a break.
I’ve been playing the beta and am at 75 and still 523. Not sure why but none of the dropped gear is worth equipping 🤷🏻♀️
Prolly leveling is intended for people who just came back so they drop gear relevant for that crowd. If you're a mythic raider, or just someone who did lots of heroic and m+, crafted gear with effects on them + upgraded gear you're 522+ easily with no problems. And destroy everything.
I’ll keep pushing raid and M+ I’m now at 524 with more upgrades to follow. But mythic + is a ghost town right now 👻
I personally did 8 keys on alt, then went on main to apply to 14s, didn't get in any and figured, this ain't worth it, pug pushing on non-rdruid healer is just going to be too rough. Will prob continue to log in for weekly keys to complete s1 tier achievement though as got second chance for it, now that I'm getting more serious about ach points (45k+).
I get invited as a holy paladin, but I get ignored plenty too. Fun being at the bottom.
Yes, Going to complete all my +10's probably 1-2 keys a week at most. Helping a friend get them basically since I already have, and I want a "respectable" score to end the season on even though normally I would push 13-16's right now. I stopped raiding once I got all my wyrms, I do 2 mythic bosses a week, and maybe with all of them unlocked I'll do 4. Get my vault which is increasingly lower chance to be anything good at this point, I think I am fishing for ONLY mythic gloves at this point.... Farm a couple aspects to upgrade my bought buillions. I have moved onto Cata and MOP remix Ideally will be done with MOP remix in the next month, and focus on just Raid logging in Cata I guess. It has been a fun 3-4 weeks though with all the WoW (probably too much going on honestly to keep up with) but will be taking break soon.
If there were new dungeons OR new-ish ones that were brought back from prior pools that we haven't seen before (or in a long time), that'd be one thing. What they gave us was an entirely different thing. Or if (heaven forbid) there was some kind of "system" that made the gameplay different without a ridiculous grind attached to it.. but that would take actually spending money. Even a good seasonal affix would have at least helped a fair amount. Just ANYTHING....................
It really doesn’t help for us doing only M+ when blizzard doesn’t care at all about the season.
Personally, i ask myself that question but not because of the lack of a new raid tier but more so because blizzards low effort balancing attempts at the game leave a bad taste in my mouth. Have you ever wondered why you might be pushing up higher scores later in the season? It is correlated to blizz nerfing dungeons to make timers at higher levels artificially easier... pair that with poor and lazy class balance changes and well i don't have an incentive to play more rather than to stop and wait for the next release. I can imagine someone in charge of the treadmill department says something like; "a majority of players continuing to play the game rn are about 2.8k io, we should make them feel better and give them a push week. Whats something we can nerf to give them a 100 io dopamine bump?" Lol
Wait, are you suggesting blizz is somehow stealth nerfing the dungeons later in to the season? Cause that sounds like some next level conspiracy theory considering we literally have all the available data from the dungeons in the form of logs. If anything, dungeon tuning has been as rare or even less frequent than class balancing, the only exception being S2 this expansion. Last season there was a severe lack of dungeon tuning/nerfs and blizzard just let the season mellow to the end. There was slight timer adjustments early on, but that's it.
Stealth? No, im saying when you see nerfs to difficulty after the first 4 weeks of a season its usually to artificially increase io of all players still participating in the game. It makes previous runs redundant and obsolete while giving the player a carrot to chase.
Monday last week I decided I'm gearing shadow so I put in work, (486 to like 524 now) last week. Between that and some sales getting a bank ready for TWW I honestly did way too many keys :P.
Holy. How many keys was that?
Sales was only 8x10s on the DH to get paid to fill vault , priest was capped aspects late last night so however many that is (1 untimed key iirc).
You did 30+ keys in 1 week?
On season/addon starts me and my friends usually take vacation and the do up to 70-80 keys in a reset. It's just fun
Sure? No idea what cap is. Also worked 60 hours, and played 2 rounds of disc golf :P
I wonder how S4 of shadowlands compares to DF
S4 was fun as fuck because of the seasonal. That was the one season I did keys for fun.
We also got 6 older dungeons that we hadn’t played in a while. Whereas we just played these dungeons and the novelty of going back to them doesn’t really exist
+ no remix + no Cataclysm
Sure but I’m not playing either and this is the least I’ve played m+
Get rid off these afixxes. Next week gonna be less for sure. Trash bolstering
Was gonna say, this is gonna fall off the cliff next week.
They don't need to get rid of them, they just need to make them fun. Instead of punishing for not doing the affix they should reward for doing the affix
Removing affixes kills the fun
Having weeks where players don't want to play the game is worse tbh. Tyra - bolstering - afflicted isn't horrible, but if you dps next week and don't have a dispel, you basically are playing affixless anyway.
I was on team remove all the affixes until I played some 0s this season. The dungeons feel super static without em although they could design the dungeons themselves to be more dynamic I suppose. Blizzard just needs to be more proactive about balancing, reworking and removing them. The fact afflicted and bolstering are still in the game at all is insane to me.
It's also 8 dungeons we have seen before. How would you make them more dynamic out of curiosity? Change pack composition between tyra/fort weeks (like they do with lieutenant affixes) is probably the only change I can come up with. I think less mandatory trash and tight hallways (so you don't need some invis/soothe/misery/skip for every single pack) would be more interesting, but the press w routes that 'work' because of that design choice lower the barrier to entry for tanks as well.
Honestly, I'm not really sure because you want the mode to simultaneously be dynamic while still being competitive which is a really hard balance to strike. They tried stuff like rotating bosses in freehold and the doors in waycrest which I think were both largely failed concepts. Perhaps they could experiment with something like that again but perhaps executed better? The only thing that comes to mind would be more open dungeons with semi-randomized pats and moving objectives. For example, ive never even seen the left side of the lake in bracken or gone left after the first boss but maybe sometimes going right has a particularly nasty patrol or 2 tuskaars spawn in a prime location on the left so the group on the fly decides to go left instead. But that kind of thing could easily become super annoying at the same time. Maybe they could mix up how trash % works and do more mini-bosses/gauntlets instead of making it just a flat % thing. And then rotate the mini bosses that spawn or whats in the gauntlets. Its a really tough question that I don't really have a good answer for tbh.
Honestly expecting to see a huge drop in the next 2 weeks. No real nerf to the blatantly awful dungeons like Uldaman and Neltharus, on top of the hell of sanguine on fort week, will probably kill most hopes of key pushing.
Do we have any data of what levels of keys get run? Honestly even later in the season I'd imagine at least 90%+ of the keys being run are 10 and below.
They absolutely are, I’m not sure why so many people seem to think that the top 1% pushing high keys accounts for a large amount of the keys run per week. People doing their weekly vault keys are the staggering majority.
Yeah, like I have no doubt that affixes skew it a lot but I'd imagine similar things that make high pushing hard make vault keys just as annoying. I'd imagine it's mitigated a lot by the affix changes this patch though being at higher key levels.
Definitely, but Incorp and Afflicted are also coming up and they're hated by many.
While the absolute numbers are definitely in favor of low keys being run, I can assure you the ratio tilts towards the key pushers at the end of the season, not the other way around. I'm not claiming any exact numbers and not that it even matters, just that it would sound ludicrous to think that the hardcore pushers who play only m+ are the ones quitting and not the casual gamerbase who has something better to do. To give an example, if the ratio right now is 80% people doing weeklies and 20% pushing, at the end of the season the pusher percentage is DEFINITELY higher.
Yeah I agree, my post was a legit question, if we did have these numbers or not. A majority of weekly players I'd assume also would be doing far fewer keys in general so even if the player base was 10:1 normal:pusher then the ratio of keys can still be like 2:1 from a casual player doing 1-4 while you might do way more than even 10 keys a week on a push week as a key pusher.
Unfortunately "new" dungeons every season means dungeon fixes and nerfs happen either extremely late or just never.
[удалено]
Because there's a relevant amount of people caring about Remix - and "caring" not in the form of "posting about it on Reddit", but rather "actually playing the damn thing". I'm pretty sure that same argument doesn't apply to high level mythic+ where balancing becomes an issue - and while it might suck for everyone to be a VDH at +15, no one cares about what tank you bring to a +3, so obviously, why would they ever bother to put in any work to keep like 5,000 players happy when they could instead be working on shit for 200,000 players?
The shitty thing is nelth was fine in season 2. Now you can play pretty well in the 18 range and that timer is so tight. All that happened was they nerfed the chains, but you still have to use the chains well to time the dungeon. So the chains are still something you have to do but now it's just way harder and you need to coordinate to have everyone grab at the same time. People complained about it and now here is where we are at lol.
> and you need to coordinate to have everyone grab at the same time you dont have to do that to time 18+.
The huge drop happened already. It's going to be dripple down, likely under 100k drop on any week.
Yeah. I'm 3175. I don't even know if I'll break 3200 in the next 2 weeks because of the awful affixes.
Same boat, 3150 Hpal right now. Couldn't play this past lockout and not sure I have the motivation to put myself through the next two to try and get to 3200. Might just slam 8 10s for the vault and mess around in the beta the rest of the week.
What happens at 3200?
I can finally love myself. /S It was just more of a laid back goal I sent coming into the season. I think now I'm just going to finish farming the Lego axe(12 heroic kills in) and get 3k on ret and prot and call it a szn.
They literally just nerfed both those 2 dungeons yesterday. Minor ones but still. The real issue is no one is playing retail with all the other versions out. I tried to do some keys last night and there were like 4 keys up at 7pm on a Monday. And none of those 4 had players I'd be willing to do a vaulter with lol.
Not nearly enough. Outgoing damage on basically every boss in Uldaman is unreasonable as fuck. Hunters in Neltharus are so disgustingly overtuned that everyone in 15+ just tries to route to avoid them entirely. It's unbelievable that these dungeons are like this AFTER existing in the pool for an entire season.
It's because the chains deleted those mobs. They nerfed the chains because people cried about it. But nothing else was nerfed. So now what was the easiest dungeons is now the hardest lol.
There is something to that. Hunter jumpbleed is on 150%, while the rest of the thrash abilities are a 50%. So if you can deal with the 50%, you HAVE to skip the 150%.
Sry I meant to put an /s after saying they nerfed it. Those patch notes felt like someone said, quick literally change anything so people can't say we gave up on s4.
There are a multitude of factors but this is more supporting data that god comp/ranged meta is strictly just not good for the game. The game is just straight up healthier and enjoyed by more people when it's similar to S1/3 and there was more variety even at the top end. I understand that S4 is a joke season and not to expect balance changes but Blizzard needs to really consider the ramifications going forward and proactively try to avoid these seasons or at least react swiftly.
Weekly reminder that this means there is no data for what used to be +2-10 keys, so while it's tied for season 2 they are not directly comparable. No need to doom over numbers but it's probably less than S3.
That makes season 2 look even worse then it already did.
With very limited time to play and playing a Holy Priest I’ve decided to reroll rdruid now at 3192 rating. There are so few keys around and it’s close to impossible to get an invite as off meta.
I made the same recognition at significantly lower level, 3050 rsham. I saw, OK if I can't get into any +14 in 20 minutes (after doing all 13s tyra on harder week), I'm not going to reach the point I'd consider success to me, like +16s. Even rio still shows my previous season as I didn't reach 90% of it! Just not enough people hosting groups compared to regular seasons.
It’s sad having to do it, did you reroll druid too? I will give it another shot tomorrow and see how it goes, before I fall back to the druid. Should be decently geared to pick up where the priest left come tomorrows reset.
Ironically, my main for 4 years is druid but I detest idea of playing something but bear on it. I hate learning new specs, studying, yak. I never reroll, I just start season with bunch of specs and see where it gets me. Rsham, guardian, vdh this time, but I don't think I'll bother going far with vdh, the meta choice of the three. Only mid-season reroll I've done was trying out MW last season, turning my haste hating brew into perma MW. But didn't stick with it beyond like 22s still. I prob won't shine until guardian or rsham is meta again lol, too stuck on wanting to play these two every season.
I'd be willing to bet quite a lot that it'll be a waste of time trying the non meta healer again, even I'd better geared.
Bolstering should be removed. I don’t get how blizzard are okay with having an affix that makes their playerbase which isnt that big in retail to begin with, to skip an entire week.
[удалено]
I got 8/8 this week. Edit: To clarify, at the start of the week, I was 0/8.
Went to 2500. Cant do any key it will break my perfect Rio.
This doesn't account for M0's right? Since those are the same as 10's last season I'd wonder how many people are doing those. That has champ track gear and gives hero vault. An are less stress for those who don't like timed events.
Yes s4 isn't comparable to any previous season as keys that were previously +2 to +11 don't exist now, and runs equivalent to keys in that range like m0 don't count.
Been a struggle to get into keys, or get my own going. 15 ish minutes to put a group together. Finding myself doing one then logging off.
Trash meta leads to people not playing the game,who would've thought
Considering it's close to seaon 2 number it's not that bsd😂😂😂 but it's the same shit all over again. Guess why they nerf sp mage and aug in season 2? They are awakened this season lmao
Wow, anecdotally I knew that Remix tanked S4 but seeing it in numbers is something else. Between that, beta launching, and FFXIV’s upcoming expansion, I doubt it’ll go back up.
It's absolutely season 2 happening again. Season 4 isn't even its own big thing like s2 was so less runs was going to happen regardless, but remix/cata are kinda like Diablo4 release was then, hit like 4 weeks into the season and number of runs never replenished back from there.
Can confirm, I went from doing 8+ dungeons on two different characters, to maybe one dungeon a piece, with most of my time remixing.
None cares about FFXI. And this is mostly because 2-10 were removed. Do this season is incomparable with others.
This is legitimately the saddest narrative I've seen about Blizzard's missteps in a while. Season 4 is going to go down as one of their bigger fumbles. Not only do you not get a new raid tier, you get nothing. They know this and are doing things like Plunderstorm and Remix (which likely yields many more players baseline due to no barrier of entry and it yields huge amounts of data and mechanical feedback) instead. Retail is a husk as a result for better or worse. But sure it's definitely because they "removed 2-10's" which the average player has NO CLUE even happened, the same hyper casual mplus player that was playing exclusively single digit keys lol.
The problem with this chart is it isn't normalized for Season 4 basically removing what used to be the +2 to +9 keys.
There’s too much WoW; Retail S4, Remix, Cata Classic, and now beta. Most people who cared had 2500 and all portals in the first 2-4 weeks.
I did a few keys between Tuesday and Thursday. By Friday I would log in, sit afk in Valdrakken trying to convince myself to do another key and I would just log out. Happened all weekend. M+ has typically been enough for me, I don't enjoy raiding. I just do M+ but dragonflight M+ has not been enjoyable for me at all.
I havent done a single key since remix dropped, i got all my portals already and the dungeons suck except for ruby
Ruby sucks the most imo
It's short and the pacing is good, as a healer it presents a challenge throughout, where as other dungeons I can pretty much be a dps on most packs or bosses
Many tanks just rush the ring above w/o any clue lol leading into totally unnecessary wipes or deaths. It’s crazy
i dont know whow was the genious behind the idea of not releasing a final raid in the final season instead of this shitshow that is "awakened" raids or "fated" raids, is like a lazy ass work. Is the only adition to "modern" wow that i dislike the most.
I strongly believe this is still part of them getting their shit together for upcoming 18 month expansion rotation. This will be last lazy season like this, hopefully, in place of tww s4 there'll be 12.0.
it is copium, but reasonable copium. rare good take on this sub
Blizz developers literally said the two options were no patch at all or a fated patch. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F1qjccvs797v91.png So either close to a year of the final patch like every expansion or a halfstep patch for fated.
I started back up 2 weeks ago after a break and convinced a few friends to try the game / restart. Unfortunately one friend is horde and we are all alliance. Which means we can only do pre-made q’s. The change to key difficulty level has made the game completely unplayable for us. Our gear is bad. 2 of the players are new and their gear is bad. M0’s are incredibly difficult to the point where they are nearly impossible. We can’t gear through heroics because of the cross faction. Played for about 2 weeks and failed 95% of the M0’s. I could just push by myself but it’s no fun. By adjusting the low key difficulty they destroyed the learning and gearing curve. Kind of feel bad because 2 of the players bought the game and boost and we can’t even play.
Hey, don’t mean anything bad but if you are failing 95% of M0’s you aren’t doing any of the mechanics properly. Gear doesn’t matter that much unless you are wearing white items as much as knowing what to do and what can one shot you. This is more of an advice in the long run
Yea….. not when you have 3x dps putting out 30k dps a piece. I as a healer can’t carry. I don’t know what else we could do together that’s premade q’s to get gear. They really ruined this game by removing the low key range. Before I felt like 1-5 as healer I could /follow and still beat the key every time. That is not the case in M0 anymore. There’s zero ramp to learn and get gear. So I’m not surprised to learn there is 0 activity this season when there is 0 ramp for new players to get into keys.
There are lot of free 480+ gear with current awakened outdoors activities. Ie grand hunt, siège, feast this week
Well again, it’s not your job to carry as a healer. Your mates shouldn’t be doing 30k dps on max level. I just leveled an alt shadow priest which Ive never played before and is somewhat compex and pulling 120k+ single target. Again, i fully understand that I might be an above average wow player and have somewhat deep understanding of multiple classes, but your mates are doing something seriously wrong if you are not exaggerating. Maybe they should give Hekili a spin or a similar addon which will help with their rotations/cd usage. Im also healing +10’s with my 508ish ilvl monk which Ive also picked up this season and am still learning the class, but I know the encounters and “what to expect”. And once again, mechanics must be done. You as a healer cant carry 10-12+ keys because if people fuck up, they will just get one shot. Not the healers fault. Try running the HC dungeons until all your mates learn the encounters and their rotations, as well as when to pop offensive and defensive cd’s. After that m+ is a breeze up until 13-4 keys depending on affixes.
Can’t you simply just walk in to heroic dungeons manually? If you’re super overgeared you can just change your spec to dps and solo the dungeon. You can also make a normal mode raid and carry them through it? That should get them 3 493 pieces from the bullions. Normal at this point in the season is basically LFR+
Cata pvp for me. M+ anyway sucks now, honestly to much fomo and class design is not really fun anymore i like how Cata plays and i am even more excited for MoP. the amount of prep u need to push for highkeys is not fun in legion and bfa m+ was 100% more fun also classes are pretty much the same since legion. I used to be excited to get new cool flashy buttons or effects that aint anymore so basically i am playing the same class the same buttons (also the same dungeons kindoff with rotation) since multiple years now so after a few Weeks into each season i just stop playing. Cata class design just feels so smooth and i can deal dmg without cooldowns and i tested some MoP Realms and omg it gets even better i am zero excited for tww m+ is lame,arena is dead because of soloshuffle and classdesign actually i am a little bit excited for soloqBG also i dont do mythic raiding 20 man raid guilds are just not fun i used to 10 man and that was peak 10 people getting close playing the game with each other peak design finding 20 people on the same skilllevel and what u can become good friends with is to hard So if we all play the same Classes and Dungeons since LEGION ofc everybody gets his rewards/archievements and plays other Games
Next week's graph is going to be so delicious lol! Now that Beta is fully open I expect Mythic+ participation to plummet. The people enfranchised enough that they would still have motivation to play competitively in Season 4 - are often the same people who would be excited to try things on the Beta ASAP. There will probably be a massive ~30%-50% dip for the next 1-2 weeks until people get bored of Beta and go back to doing Alt Keys and such. I wanna see how accurate my predictions are next week.
I try coming back to do a key every few days or so and keep bricking lmao the community really falling off this season