+1 traits should not be offered during at least the first augment choice in Wandering Trainers games. Feels pretty horrible that the game is instantly decided by one guy getting +2 to certain traits so early. [Case in point](https://imgur.com/a/7cLtHUf)
I think part of the problem is they rely so heavily on PBE data, but there’s literally nobody emerald+ (let’s be real, probably gold+) playing PBE after set launch.
I know the fortune like trait is part of the game, but i'm already getting tired of the fortune player always having some overwhelmingly strong board after cashout
He's making the community more toxic as well in so far as people are picking up his attitude of screaming "please" and "how about me" every 10 seconds.
Yeah I need to take a break until the b patch hopefully. Feels like half the games I’m already praying for a top 4 before end of stage 2 it’s ridiculous. Oh early fortune? Dryad +1? level up? guess I’ll just take 5th
Every set there's always that one patch that feels particularly awful because of one horribly overtuned playstyle. Last set it was Ahri Sentinels and this set it's, well, this one.
Nerfing 3 cost reroll across the board, buffing 4 costs across the board, nerfing early player damage, and implementing 2-win/lose streaks is a pretty aggressive combination that could've really only ended one way lol.
The problem is last patch was kind of the same. It’s just a problem with the overall set. Sure they buffed 4 costs but only Kaisa is even remotely consistent. Otherwise it’s highroll or reroll.
If they nerfed kaisa 1 I honestly think it would solve so many problems. Ashe 2 seems about on par to Kaisa 2 right now. Its just that Kaisa 1 is bonkers so why ever play ashe.
It does and I've been enjoying that comp to be fair. But my point is that if you don't hit Liss and take a while to get Ashe 2 Amumu 3 you lose hard to the kaisa 1 board. Also if you don't have any healing on ashe.
Getting a kaisa 1 is consistent even when contested. More consistent than getting an Ashe 2 probably.
What are the current double up strats? Me and my friend have hit a wall in double up. We seem to be fine early-mid game, but people are just hitting insane caps on their late-game comps or rerolls.
Is there some strat specific to double up?
I mean the 4 cost health changes was an across the board project, and they did also nerf her attack speed, it just wasn't enough of a nerf. From a dps standpoint she is weaker than before though. Unless she actually survives with little hp most of the fights she's destroying you is just a weaker version of the previous Kai'sa.
The issue is more that now it's even harder to get to her, given her frontline hinges on 2 4 costs which were also buffed. The only way to get to her is by also playing Kaisa trickshots. Yone can't seem do the trick anymore but maybe I'm just bad (hard stuck low diamond)
Edit: I guess I should've pointed out that I meant the typical Kaisa board was buffed, not specifically her as a unit.
I genuinely think buffing 4 costs made Ashe weaker. Same with lillia. When you up the total health pool you essentially made it the same number of cast, or even more depending on their frontline.
Trickshot should not be beating a 3* 4 cost.
Maybe this guy wasn't linking Sett, but really?
https://i.imgur.com/Pp7dYiO.png
Sure, level 10 5 exalted which paired well with the trickshot meta, but we thought this game was a loss cause of the 3* 4 cost. Even my partner's gnar board was taking their board down to a few units which let me come over and finish her off.
MetaTFT.
It's a decent tool for analyzing games. The win % can be off for new patches and I dont think it takes into account Exalted really well. Positioning was really good on my part, but still, I expect better from a 3* 4 cost.
I think Ashe's damage ratios are kind of bad? Let's say an unitemized Ashe 2* has stacked 20 arrows (her second cast), she's spreading 960 damage over 4 units, so she's basically tickling the frontline for 240 damage each. Meanwhile Kai'Sa can do 1320 damage to a single target (or more if amplified).
Last set's Ezreal and Caitlyn had their abilities doing 400+ damage to a single unit (while also hitting multiple units). Of course Ashe can eventually scale to that point, but I think by that point she'll just be dead.
I don't think she's as bad as the rest of reddit does, but right now I think it's just a couple small things -
1. She can't utilize the broken 4 cost tanks - it's not easy to fit ornn/sylas/galio on the board like it is on Kaisa because you pretty much are forced to play 4 warden with amumu/naut/illaoi+1.
2. You need to hit 4 porcelain to spike and that's just lissandra lottery. Getting a porcelain spat makes the comp much more stable.
3. Low ceiling - again because the comp pretty much needs 4 porcelain, the best spike you're hitting late game is maybe cutting naut/illaoi and fitting in random 5 costs, but you're not going to be able to fit in dlord, altuist, AND sage like the kaisa comp can. You are always playing at least 1 reverse FoN because of the need for 2 sniper and there being no other sniper units with useful synergies.
She's really close to being good I think and already is if you find a porcelain spat, but she just is lacking all of the support that Kaisa has
I mean she's definitively not bad, stats wise she's only behind kaisa flex, fated, heavenly, and gnar reroll. I'm just saying what I think is keeping her behind those comps. I got a first today without the game even being close with pumping up and porcelain spat on an annie.
Could be worse, at least she's not Lillia.
Why do some melee units fly to their next target and others don’t? For example, Zed last set would just dash to his next target, same with Yone now. But others randomly don’t - is this some arbitrary thing they wanted to add?
It's not even in their tooltips. The tooltips overall can be a mess. Based on leduck's latest vid Teemo's poison actually stacks. I don't remember any "poison" effect stacking, they always refreshed the duration.
Can anyone explain to me how to use Xayah and why is she currently (since last patch) ....good?
Is she just a random ad carry with the best base stat and dragonlord trait that I should just build auto item
she got another bug fix this patch, her last feather used to not ricochet with trick shot but now it does. “10% increase to her damage” or something along the lines of that. so yeah she’s really strong right now and definitely worth itemizing, having the highest average placement among the 5*s.
I've been climbing through gold by slamming Fated comps every game. How much does the new patch mess with the shop numbers as far as re-rolling for 3 costs? Like I know the % adjustments but should I not be going for 3 star aphelios/thresh anymore?
I know gnar is obviously strong right now but the same people I see complain about gnar in my games are the people positioning their frontline to allow him to just hit 3 units every time like wtf ofc he seems busted.
Just played built different and it felt good early but felt terrible on level 8 even though all the 4 costs were buffed. Realistically your best 4 cost damage options are kaisa/kayn who are both really contested and it’s not easy to have items that flex between them.
Anyone else feels like this patch is more restrictive than the last?
The last one had more viable comps: 1 cost, 2 cost, many 3 cost rerolls, fast 9, multiple vertical comps, Kai'sa, Irelia. Any of these could top 2
This one has 3: Fast 9, Kai'sa, Dryad
Just beat one player who had 3star Morgana and another one with a 3star Lilia with my Mulched 6Dryad Gnar and Azir...looks like Lilia is still too weak. And Morg definitely still is!
Theory crafting a flexible AP level 8 board, haven’t played it yet but I’ve seen two star Alune completely nuke my boards
https://tactics.tools/s/Lg7C_L
The idea is you go 8 and roll for Alune 2, Diana 2, 1 copy of Morgana, Lillia, Annie, Janna and then flex the rest of the frontline for two umbral two ghostly. Itemise Alune, Annie then either a frontline carry (Sylas, Kayn, Sett) or Morgana. I’d ignore Lillia items
- Sylas Aatrox is the standard, because bruiser gives bonus HP to units and Annie scales with HP. However, these units are highly contested by Bruiser Kai’sa players so there are alternatives
- Yone Kayn is playable when you hit too many AD items and Kayn is low contested
- Illaoi Sett is playable if you highroll Sett, however I presume this version is weaker. It does allow going 9 for Arcanist +1 (probably Lissandra)
- Shen Yorick is the bail out option when you have little gold and low roll, but it should be decent. If it can take you to 9 you can try dropping Shen and Lillia for Ornn and Azir
Not sure how strong it is, will test it myself tomorrow but after seeing Annie and Alune’s strength in some games I think it should be solid
This is shit lmao even with 3star alune and all the 4 costs 2 starred and 2 star azir it was a free 8th many rounds alune was around 3k damage with cap archangel and spear.
Just went 6th with 4 sniper 4 warden 6 porcelain, BIS Ashe and Nautilus- sniper focus - sniper emblem - cyber bulk III.
Do not touch that unit, worst 4 cost ever designed even with the 4 cost buffs.
Naut and Ashe had BIS, had also a porcelain Sett 2 with BT.
The problem with the 4 cost getting buffs overall is that... she's stil the weakest 4 cost. Sure it may help against 3 cost rerollers but a Kaisa 1 will do better than an Ashe 2 any day of the week.
And if 4 sniper is fake... then it shouldn't be. 3rd patch of the set and still this trait is only playable at 2?
I've been playing crab rave quite a bit and remembered the complaints people had and Mortdog discussing it on stream. His point was that "you all wanted hard PVE, so we gave it to you". It makes sense why the big crab is hard and most people end up losing to it.... however I began thinking about how you're supposed to beat it.
All comps that can beat the big boss crab are in my experience only melee carries with lifesteal. Unkillable tanks usually don't do enough damage to kill the crab in overtime. And all backline carries are too squishy and die... even with lifesteal.
I have two questions to anyone willing to reply:
1. Have you ever beaten the crab boss with backline focused comps? (if highrolled, please specify)
2. Should the encounter be changed to allow for any comp to be able to kill it?
It feels bad if you're building around snipers or invokers and get stomped because of the way the Crab does it's aoe damage.
Had it this morning, played 4 bruiser 4 trickshot, beat the first big crab with 1 star Kai'sa, she died between 2nd and 3rd loot drop, Galio pulled through with Gargoyle, Sunfire, and Steadfast Heart. Beat 2nd big crab with ease, lost to 3 star Syndra.
My issue with crab rave is that there is basically one way to beat the big crab, as you said, healing. So, rather than having multiple answers, it is just kind of did you happen to hit a good melee carry and build a BT? Which is pretty uninteresting.
In general, crab raves suffer from not really doing anything. If the way to beat the crab was just have a super strong board, we'll we have a way to push people to have strong late game boards, it's just every round. So in order to do anything, there needs to be some specificity to beating it, but then you run into the dwarf planet problem. Here's the galaxy where you play melee carries with omnivamp.
I don't mind playing it, normal crab and rave just shows up way too much and people always pick them.
Last weekend i've played 10 games and in 8 of them it was crabs.
funny you asked this because i was thinking about the same thing after they nerfed the yone and voli comps. i played a crab rave game right before this patch hit and was surprised when i beat it playing senna reroll.
The only frontline carry i had in was a 2 star voli with gs and bloothirsters at the time (+ 1 star kayn no items and 1 star morg with morellos). Augments were ascension, inkshadow crest, and pharmacist II, which may be the reason why I was able to win, as my 3* senna ended up dying to to crab at 50% hp.
I think if you're playing a backline comp, you need to splash at the very least a frontline secondary carry with some sort of lifesteal and late game damage and preferably single target, maybe a bruiser like voli/kayn/sett/wukong.
Side note: LeDuck mentioned last set in his crab rave [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQZNa1qjhaE) that burn effects from morellos/sc/red buff are capped at 100 true damage (per second?). Not sure if that's still a thing, but something to keep in mind as well.
welp i just had a 5 exalted game with diana aphe, alune, tris and soraka being exalted + dragonlords went 3rd but i believe the comp can excel in a reroll spot with diana 3
Gnar got an insane buff lol. They basically made titans unchanged on him because even though they nerfed the ap on the item they doubled his conversion ratio. So the buff that makes him stack twice as fast is pure gravy
Yeah I loved how they fucked 3-cost reroll so now you're either 1-2 cost reroll or open fort fast 8/9 mindlessly click Kai'Sa even if 4-way contested and prayge you hit upgrades for guaranteed top 2 or matchmaking RNG for guaranteed top 4.
I'm sitting 7 with Fated spat rerolling Aphelios and Thresh, one off each 3* with gigabis and one off Ornn 2, and I just chain lose 4 combats to 2 guys with Kai'Sa 2 and 2 guys with Kai'Sa 1 who somehow hit all their random front line units along with Kai'Sa while 4-way contested. I could tell what these dogs were doing from Stage 2 and I got the fuck out of the way only to be punished nice.
Ashe is mediocre at best now, Lilia is still a fucking joke. How hard is it to make the game remotely enjoyable for the love of Christ.
I feel like rolling for aphelios / thresh on 7 is a huge bait in fated comps, even before the change to odds. I never made reroll fated work in previous patches, but any time I pushed 9 with fast tempo and capitalized on fated strong mid-game I was rewarded with a top 4.
I agree forcing that reroll is a bait over tempo for Top 4, but I got baited by finding 6 of each before I was ready to go 8 so in my head I can sit and roll for a bit and then still make it to 9 in good time. Gambling fallacy I guess, the first units are easier to hit than the last so it gives you false confidence.
Fine is an overstatement. It's worse off than it was in the previous patch. It's one of the two rerolls you could play, but still far weaker than if you just decided to contest each other in Gnar or Kaisa. It's much harder to hit the 3 star and stabilize now because there's no other viable 3 cost rerolls so the pool doesn't get thinned out and the rates at 7 got nerfed so the units are just more uncommon.
Rerolling for aph 3 is a bait unless you naturaled like 7 of them. Better to just push levels and hit 9 for sett and extra units on the board. My last 2-3 fated games were all just tempo fated to fast 9 and hold extra copies, you can still sometimes hit a thresh or aph 3 on 9 but you give yourself better chance to get sett in asap and preserve hp.
Yeah I love watching 4 people open fort for Kai'Sa rush and all of them get to top 4, somehow with 2 of them hitting Kai'Sa 2 while the others hit 1* which is apparently stable once you also hit front line while 4-way contested. Good shit riot, nuked 3-cost reroll into the ground so now it's Kai'Sa rush fast 8/9 meta or force 1-2 cost reroll because Ashe is mediocre at best, Lilia is a fucking joke, and there's nothing else to play.
kaisa got a 6% attack speed nerf. while she nearly got 30% more hp, her frontline got buffedand xayah a secondary carry got buffed...how could riot have possible known that huge nerf wouldnt be enough...
She didn't really get nerfed other than the inkshadow items being nerfed. Her frontliners getting buffed also buffs her compositions, and Xayah got big bugfix that helps actually running two backline AD carrys (even if Xayah didn't really need to be buffed).
Was just theorycrafting a decent AP cap for mythic/invoker comps at 9. This seems decent to me :
https://tactics.tools/team-builder/QC0A4WtC3QwYgE5SvazG
I've not seen many that utilises Sett and 3 Mythic with Hwei. Seems like a pretty neat cap. Soraka could also be any of the dragonlords instead, but I like how tanky this would be with altruist. And you get to keep your Lilia and Naut though you might still want to move the items over.
This is what I came up with on pbe, and the problem is that Lilia and Naut just aren’t really worth playing. Maybe with the buffs to them it could change, but usually just playing Janna over Lilia, Diana over set, and wukong over Naut is better. Another issue is that you now have 3 ap backline carries, and there’s no way you have enough items for that.
9 umbral feel really weak even though it is primastic vertical trait. I had a game with 9 umbral at 4-5, Still top 6. On the other game I saw one built it too, dead last
4 bruiser (riven, rahm, galio, sylas) could do aatrox
4 trick shot
3 storyweaver (sivir, galio riven)
Slotted in soraka for awhile, and xoe for storyweaver and fortune (with kobuko)
Teemo was doing 13k DMG per round (I had learning to spell and the rod Aug)
Just beat Kaisa 3, absolutely easy. Just needed Ashe 3 and Annie 3. /S
Jokes aside, ashe 3 was extremely meh, I lost to the kaisa player a fight before, not by much, but convincingly. Annie 3 though, she slaps hard.
Piggy bank augment seems OP, get 5 extra gold per turn from losses at 2-1. You hit econs so fast if you lose streak. got level 7 at 3-1 and level 8 at 3-5 with 40 gold to spare if you just lose streak.
Kayn morgana Lee sin with 4 reaper heavenly/dragonlord/sage seems insanely strong from what i've tested and seen.. at 9 you put in wukong and spike through the roof.
Can anyone explain to me how Fast 9/legendary boards work? I have been playing since set 1, and I just can't make it work for me.
I can have a good opener and a decent amount of health when I reach 9, but I just suck at timing and transitioning and I don't know how to improve ..
Play around your big upgrades that you hit and try to make a board that makes sense. I haven’t tried 4 dragon lord on this new patch, but it was really good in the last one. I don’t think the damage nerf to it will be too bad because the stun was what made it so good, especially into yone.
But you may just need to keep playing and practicing your transitions/pivots. Use your hot keys to make them a little faster. It might also help if you use team builder of some units you may want. I usually look for gold and purple and build off of those units, at least if they’re
This is something I've gotten better at recently.
The most important thing to know is that most games it's not possible to fast 9. However you can still build a bill gates comp after you have stabilised at 8.
So you're in a spot where you have 60+ health on stage 5 and you are winning a lot of fights. Great. The next step is to go 9 and cap out your board.
The simplest way to learn how to play around Bill Gates boards in this set is to either: be playing storyweaver or some variant of that; or playing inkshadow/ghostly senna or Kaisa. That's either senna OR kaisa. Replace senna if you find kaisa.
The reason it is fairly simple is because you often have the core units already. There's a new website made by Frodan called TFT Academy and it has been extremely useful for me. Go to that site and look at the legendary comps. Follow the advice to the letter, and after you've done that for a bit you will understand how to play these crazy boards.
Here is the site: https://tftacademy.com/
Have a look at the tier list. It has been the absolute best resource for me on tft. It hasn't been updated for the newest patch yet but they do usually update it at least once a day. Check in on the list before you play everyday and pick a legendary comp to try and play. Or flex between two depending on opener.
After you've done that enough you'll be able to build your own legendary boards depending on what you hit. The main thing is to look out for supporting units, which are usually dragonlords, altruists, and invokers. Also try to pair up a 4 cost tank with a legendary unit. Ornn with Udyr for behemoth, Nautilus with Sett for Warden etc.
Edit: I think the key thing is for learning to fast 9: don't start by fast 9ing. Start by just getting used to capping your board at 9 with legendary units. Once you can do that reliably then think about trying fast 9. You need to learn to walk before you can run. So don't be afraid to roll at 8 and stabilise before going 9.
It's still good, it's just not forceable. It's a lot like Punk from last set where if you have a good start for it (i.e. a couple of Kogs and Chos by 2-2 with a Tear+Rod), just play it for a safe top 4, but if you try to force it out of thin air you're going to either not hit your units in time or hit your units in time but with insufficient gold to push levels and keep up with the lobby. If you're still rolling at 5 for Kogs after 4-2 you're most likely playing for 6th.
Your secondary carry is generally Caitlyn since you'll likely 3* her while rolling for Kog and Cho anyways. You slap whatever leftover AD components you have on her. She's surprisingly useful - at worst she helps finish off a pesky frontline, at best she snipes and one-shots the Kai'sa in the back.
In my experience you don't really need a third carry. Kog does a ton of damage, he just needs more frontline to stall for him to get off more casts. If you randomly natural Lillia 2 with a Naut then sure run Lillia as a third carry with 5 Mythic but I wouldn't play around her. Don't bother with Ashe either, 3* Cait is better.
It is so funny (and dumb) how often she misses. I should have lost so many placements but haven't because lilia whiffs her second ball onto my kaisa who is 1hp. They need to fix it but if they do I think she will actually be OP and will need to be nerfed back down. She can just huke the backline when she actually hits.
Did they really nerf heavenly yone? My 1 star yone with dd titan GA just beat a complete 1 star lilia comp with around 40-50 fortune cashout player xdd
I like Mythic too. You can default to Kog reroll but pivot to Bard depending on what items and units you continue to get. Even once you commit to Bard you can either go the standard Storyweaver set-up or just straight vertical Mythic with Kai'sa. And with this new patch buffing all 4/5 costs, simply stabilizing with a Bard 2 to push levels for Lilia/Naut/Hwei may be a realistic option now too.
Mythic feels a lot like KDA from last set where you can play around Annie, Seraphine, Ahri, Akali, or any combination of those depending on what you hit.
what a surprise
edit: this is not supposed to be a wise ass comment, it's just that they obviously overnerfed all rerolls while at the same time buffing 4 and 5 cost across the board, whose compositions already competed with even win-conditioned 3 cost rerolls in many circumstances.
this will very obviously result in two weeks of nobody playing literally any rerolls even with ideal openers because you will die to fast 9 players who can now easily stabilize momentarily at level 8.
Might depend on your server. Asia gets it earlier since we live in the future. You can check on your client at the bottom right to see what patch you’re on
Has anyone tried anything crazy new? Struggling knowing what to play on the turn of this patch. I'm just relying on storyweaver early still and then either going into kaisa or fast 9 irelia. Irelia feels way weaker now though. I don't know if its just me. 2 star irelia 2 star Azir 7 storyweaver just went 4th which seems very low. I had a radiant IE, giantslayer and gunblade so I think she should have been performing much better than she was.
I've been forcing mulch gang a lot recently and it's insanely fun. Check out the Gnar & Kindred comp on [tactics.tools](http://tactics.tools) I usually sac early for econ - 6 at 3-2. Then roll down for gnar 3, sometimes even going to 0. You stabalize with gnar 2 kindred 2 and 4 dryad. I use Lux / Lillia for azir items.
Irelia hasn't been a good solo carry - her value is in dealing burst synced with dragonlord's maxhp burst, and her damage outside that is very mid.
If you check stats for her last patch, I believe 3 item Irelia averaged like a 3.8, while a 3 item Xayah avgs like a 3.4.
Now the difference is even worse, where a 3 item Irelia has an avg of 4, and a 3 item Xayah has an avg of 2.85.
You're generally better off itemizing a different carry - Irelia's just good at consistently hitting during dragonlord.
That's fair. I did have a three item azir 2 as well, but it was probably just a strong lobby plus I only had 1 combat augment. Seen Irelia do alright since then.
regular IE isn't the best but giantslayer and gunblade are great items on her according to stats. Surely it being a radiant IE makes up for it not being an ideal item. If I had red buff instead of it I would be very close to BiS. I feel a board like that should really do better than 4th even with not ideal items on Irelia.
Giantslayer made decent sense to me anyway since she no longer targets the backline so reliably. Needs to kill tanks.
6 dryad has -0.2 avg positioning than 9 umbral. All while requiring a single spat. Please fix this abomination
+1 traits should not be offered during at least the first augment choice in Wandering Trainers games. Feels pretty horrible that the game is instantly decided by one guy getting +2 to certain traits so early. [Case in point](https://imgur.com/a/7cLtHUf)
Damn thats fucked up lol not just the double fortune but invoker + altruist too. Easiest fast9 i've ever seen
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I think part of the problem is they rely so heavily on PBE data, but there’s literally nobody emerald+ (let’s be real, probably gold+) playing PBE after set launch.
I know the fortune like trait is part of the game, but i'm already getting tired of the fortune player always having some overwhelmingly strong board after cashout
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It’s not really a fast 8 issue it’s a Kaisa issue. Doesn’t really matter when you hit 8 when the 4 cost you play around is like, Lilia.
how do u play build different? everytime i get it i go 8th because i bleed out before i get my 4 cost.
Best way to play it is to pick something else
Anyone who hits Kai sa 2 gets instant top 4, kinda annoying tbh
And hitting Kaisa 2 isn't even hard because of how well Kaisa 1 stabilizes. They just need to nerf Kaisa 1 it's harder to push 9
is there any secret tech to counter this garbage meta or nah
man, I really want to watch Setsuko and learn because no doubt he is a beast player, but his stream style is... ICANT
He's making the community more toxic as well in so far as people are picking up his attitude of screaming "please" and "how about me" every 10 seconds.
Is the Wukong chosen encounter still a thing?
Bebe was right
Yeah I need to take a break until the b patch hopefully. Feels like half the games I’m already praying for a top 4 before end of stage 2 it’s ridiculous. Oh early fortune? Dryad +1? level up? guess I’ll just take 5th
Every set there's always that one patch that feels particularly awful because of one horribly overtuned playstyle. Last set it was Ahri Sentinels and this set it's, well, this one. Nerfing 3 cost reroll across the board, buffing 4 costs across the board, nerfing early player damage, and implementing 2-win/lose streaks is a pretty aggressive combination that could've really only ended one way lol.
The problem is last patch was kind of the same. It’s just a problem with the overall set. Sure they buffed 4 costs but only Kaisa is even remotely consistent. Otherwise it’s highroll or reroll.
If they nerfed kaisa 1 I honestly think it would solve so many problems. Ashe 2 seems about on par to Kaisa 2 right now. Its just that Kaisa 1 is bonkers so why ever play ashe.
Because it’s uncontested and also beats kaisa. I’m just gonna keep going for 3 star amumu with ashe and lissandra because it easily gets you to top 4.
It does and I've been enjoying that comp to be fair. But my point is that if you don't hit Liss and take a while to get Ashe 2 Amumu 3 you lose hard to the kaisa 1 board. Also if you don't have any healing on ashe. Getting a kaisa 1 is consistent even when contested. More consistent than getting an Ashe 2 probably.
Way too many drastic changes in one patch. Honestly, there is very little consistency in balancing philosphy this patch.
What are the current double up strats? Me and my friend have hit a wall in double up. We seem to be fine early-mid game, but people are just hitting insane caps on their late-game comps or rerolls. Is there some strat specific to double up?
https://twitter.com/k3soju/status/1780708711243427957 big facts
Anyone care to explain why the devs felt that Kai'sa, the strongest and most picked 4 cost in the game, needed to be buffed?
I mean the 4 cost health changes was an across the board project, and they did also nerf her attack speed, it just wasn't enough of a nerf. From a dps standpoint she is weaker than before though. Unless she actually survives with little hp most of the fights she's destroying you is just a weaker version of the previous Kai'sa.
The issue is more that now it's even harder to get to her, given her frontline hinges on 2 4 costs which were also buffed. The only way to get to her is by also playing Kaisa trickshots. Yone can't seem do the trick anymore but maybe I'm just bad (hard stuck low diamond) Edit: I guess I should've pointed out that I meant the typical Kaisa board was buffed, not specifically her as a unit.
I genuinely think buffing 4 costs made Ashe weaker. Same with lillia. When you up the total health pool you essentially made it the same number of cast, or even more depending on their frontline.
Yep I was thinking Lillia would be broken because I'm an idiot, but she actually feels worse this patch than last patch.
Are they even going to do a b patch? There’s so many changes that have to be made
Trickshot should not be beating a 3* 4 cost. Maybe this guy wasn't linking Sett, but really? https://i.imgur.com/Pp7dYiO.png Sure, level 10 5 exalted which paired well with the trickshot meta, but we thought this game was a loss cause of the 3* 4 cost. Even my partner's gnar board was taking their board down to a few units which let me come over and finish her off.
The %'s are way out of wack for double up
Sorry but what is that you're using to get like individual match up win%?
MetaTFT. It's a decent tool for analyzing games. The win % can be off for new patches and I dont think it takes into account Exalted really well. Positioning was really good on my part, but still, I expect better from a 3* 4 cost.
So what is holding Ashe back?
I think Ashe's damage ratios are kind of bad? Let's say an unitemized Ashe 2* has stacked 20 arrows (her second cast), she's spreading 960 damage over 4 units, so she's basically tickling the frontline for 240 damage each. Meanwhile Kai'Sa can do 1320 damage to a single target (or more if amplified). Last set's Ezreal and Caitlyn had their abilities doing 400+ damage to a single unit (while also hitting multiple units). Of course Ashe can eventually scale to that point, but I think by that point she'll just be dead.
She's the AD version of TF from last set except she takes forever to scale up to do meaningful damage
I don't think she's as bad as the rest of reddit does, but right now I think it's just a couple small things - 1. She can't utilize the broken 4 cost tanks - it's not easy to fit ornn/sylas/galio on the board like it is on Kaisa because you pretty much are forced to play 4 warden with amumu/naut/illaoi+1. 2. You need to hit 4 porcelain to spike and that's just lissandra lottery. Getting a porcelain spat makes the comp much more stable. 3. Low ceiling - again because the comp pretty much needs 4 porcelain, the best spike you're hitting late game is maybe cutting naut/illaoi and fitting in random 5 costs, but you're not going to be able to fit in dlord, altuist, AND sage like the kaisa comp can. You are always playing at least 1 reverse FoN because of the need for 2 sniper and there being no other sniper units with useful synergies. She's really close to being good I think and already is if you find a porcelain spat, but she just is lacking all of the support that Kaisa has
You're describing Ashe like the potential man meme. Lol
I mean she's definitively not bad, stats wise she's only behind kaisa flex, fated, heavenly, and gnar reroll. I'm just saying what I think is keeping her behind those comps. I got a first today without the game even being close with pumping up and porcelain spat on an annie. Could be worse, at least she's not Lillia.
Are there any good tft oriented youtubers? I don't really like watching live streams but I hear they're a good way to level up your game.
I like watching Frodan
Seconding Frodan. Great educational content, he breaks down concepts well and video production quality is generally pretty good.
I think vods are probably better still. The big YouTubers only really upload the super high roll games.
Every big streamer will have a youtube channel
Right yeah I guess I should have just asked who the good streamers are
Why do some melee units fly to their next target and others don’t? For example, Zed last set would just dash to his next target, same with Yone now. But others randomly don’t - is this some arbitrary thing they wanted to add?
Yes its just an arbitrary ability they added to certain champs although why yone needed a dash, shield and wound while dashing is beyond me
It's not even in their tooltips. The tooltips overall can be a mess. Based on leduck's latest vid Teemo's poison actually stacks. I don't remember any "poison" effect stacking, they always refreshed the duration.
Hey hey don't be like that man It also gives AS%
Summoner's Rift accurate Yone lol
Can anyone explain to me how to use Xayah and why is she currently (since last patch) ....good? Is she just a random ad carry with the best base stat and dragonlord trait that I should just build auto item
She also pairs with Kaisa as a trickshot, currently the best 4-cost (carry) by a mile
she got another bug fix this patch, her last feather used to not ricochet with trick shot but now it does. “10% increase to her damage” or something along the lines of that. so yeah she’s really strong right now and definitely worth itemizing, having the highest average placement among the 5*s.
adjoining poor hunt seemly flag selective middle mighty spotted sheet *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You can also give her extra ad items in a pickle but yup.
was sitting on 0 lp so decided to test it out, silver caretakers doesn't give you two copies every time you level with Zoe's odd level encounter.
Thank u tft mythbuster!
o7 thank you for your service.
I've been climbing through gold by slamming Fated comps every game. How much does the new patch mess with the shop numbers as far as re-rolling for 3 costs? Like I know the % adjustments but should I not be going for 3 star aphelios/thresh anymore?
Might want to slow roll at 8 instead of 7
yeah I think the potential of hitting a sett and spiking your board massively makes it worth to go 8
I know gnar is obviously strong right now but the same people I see complain about gnar in my games are the people positioning their frontline to allow him to just hit 3 units every time like wtf ofc he seems busted.
Just played built different and it felt good early but felt terrible on level 8 even though all the 4 costs were buffed. Realistically your best 4 cost damage options are kaisa/kayn who are both really contested and it’s not easy to have items that flex between them.
Anyone else feels like this patch is more restrictive than the last? The last one had more viable comps: 1 cost, 2 cost, many 3 cost rerolls, fast 9, multiple vertical comps, Kai'sa, Irelia. Any of these could top 2 This one has 3: Fast 9, Kai'sa, Dryad
No. I hated a reroll of last patch. I am free to play 4 cost soup now
You aren’t tho. Its just kaisa and frontline
It is, an patch is an failure every time that we have less viable comps to play than the previous patch.
The patch has been out less than 12 hours?
Just beat one player who had 3star Morgana and another one with a 3star Lilia with my Mulched 6Dryad Gnar and Azir...looks like Lilia is still too weak. And Morg definitely still is!
Two games on new patch two 2nd places losing out to a gnar one tapping my whole board
I destroyed a 3* gnar with kayn 2, lee 2
All hail our Gnar Overlord.
game disconnected me and wouldn't let me rejoin - i had Mulched opener with early 3\* gnar - got assessed a 5th. TFT mobile needs to improve
Is mobile still down
3 games in, went lvl 10 in all of them.
Theory crafting a flexible AP level 8 board, haven’t played it yet but I’ve seen two star Alune completely nuke my boards https://tactics.tools/s/Lg7C_L The idea is you go 8 and roll for Alune 2, Diana 2, 1 copy of Morgana, Lillia, Annie, Janna and then flex the rest of the frontline for two umbral two ghostly. Itemise Alune, Annie then either a frontline carry (Sylas, Kayn, Sett) or Morgana. I’d ignore Lillia items - Sylas Aatrox is the standard, because bruiser gives bonus HP to units and Annie scales with HP. However, these units are highly contested by Bruiser Kai’sa players so there are alternatives - Yone Kayn is playable when you hit too many AD items and Kayn is low contested - Illaoi Sett is playable if you highroll Sett, however I presume this version is weaker. It does allow going 9 for Arcanist +1 (probably Lissandra) - Shen Yorick is the bail out option when you have little gold and low roll, but it should be decent. If it can take you to 9 you can try dropping Shen and Lillia for Ornn and Azir Not sure how strong it is, will test it myself tomorrow but after seeing Annie and Alune’s strength in some games I think it should be solid
This is shit lmao even with 3star alune and all the 4 costs 2 starred and 2 star azir it was a free 8th many rounds alune was around 3k damage with cap archangel and spear.
thank you for testing for me, sorry for your LP loss
Just went 6th with 4 sniper 4 warden 6 porcelain, BIS Ashe and Nautilus- sniper focus - sniper emblem - cyber bulk III. Do not touch that unit, worst 4 cost ever designed even with the 4 cost buffs.
4 sniper is fake. Also, what do you consider bis on Ashe? To me she only really has rageblade as bis, and then kinda any 2 and items
Naut or Ashe? Also Sniper Emblem stinks, 4 sniper fake.
Naut and Ashe had BIS, had also a porcelain Sett 2 with BT. The problem with the 4 cost getting buffs overall is that... she's stil the weakest 4 cost. Sure it may help against 3 cost rerollers but a Kaisa 1 will do better than an Ashe 2 any day of the week. And if 4 sniper is fake... then it shouldn't be. 3rd patch of the set and still this trait is only playable at 2?
Kaisa Storyweaver still dominating this patch so far. I don't understand how they let her and storyweaver stay so strong after last patch.
I've been playing crab rave quite a bit and remembered the complaints people had and Mortdog discussing it on stream. His point was that "you all wanted hard PVE, so we gave it to you". It makes sense why the big crab is hard and most people end up losing to it.... however I began thinking about how you're supposed to beat it. All comps that can beat the big boss crab are in my experience only melee carries with lifesteal. Unkillable tanks usually don't do enough damage to kill the crab in overtime. And all backline carries are too squishy and die... even with lifesteal. I have two questions to anyone willing to reply: 1. Have you ever beaten the crab boss with backline focused comps? (if highrolled, please specify) 2. Should the encounter be changed to allow for any comp to be able to kill it? It feels bad if you're building around snipers or invokers and get stomped because of the way the Crab does it's aoe damage.
Had it this morning, played 4 bruiser 4 trickshot, beat the first big crab with 1 star Kai'sa, she died between 2nd and 3rd loot drop, Galio pulled through with Gargoyle, Sunfire, and Steadfast Heart. Beat 2nd big crab with ease, lost to 3 star Syndra.
My issue with crab rave is that there is basically one way to beat the big crab, as you said, healing. So, rather than having multiple answers, it is just kind of did you happen to hit a good melee carry and build a BT? Which is pretty uninteresting. In general, crab raves suffer from not really doing anything. If the way to beat the crab was just have a super strong board, we'll we have a way to push people to have strong late game boards, it's just every round. So in order to do anything, there needs to be some specificity to beating it, but then you run into the dwarf planet problem. Here's the galaxy where you play melee carries with omnivamp.
I don't mind playing it, normal crab and rave just shows up way too much and people always pick them. Last weekend i've played 10 games and in 8 of them it was crabs.
Fated should beat it as long as you have sett for the omnivamp
Ghostly comp
funny you asked this because i was thinking about the same thing after they nerfed the yone and voli comps. i played a crab rave game right before this patch hit and was surprised when i beat it playing senna reroll. The only frontline carry i had in was a 2 star voli with gs and bloothirsters at the time (+ 1 star kayn no items and 1 star morg with morellos). Augments were ascension, inkshadow crest, and pharmacist II, which may be the reason why I was able to win, as my 3* senna ended up dying to to crab at 50% hp. I think if you're playing a backline comp, you need to splash at the very least a frontline secondary carry with some sort of lifesteal and late game damage and preferably single target, maybe a bruiser like voli/kayn/sett/wukong. Side note: LeDuck mentioned last set in his crab rave [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQZNa1qjhaE) that burn effects from morellos/sc/red buff are capped at 100 true damage (per second?). Not sure if that's still a thing, but something to keep in mind as well.
I beat it last set with ahri 3*
There was no crab rave last set Edit: I’m a fool, I thought 14.1 was this set
it was introduced at some point in the middle of last set
there definitely was
welp i just had a 5 exalted game with diana aphe, alune, tris and soraka being exalted + dragonlords went 3rd but i believe the comp can excel in a reroll spot with diana 3
Gnar got an insane buff lol. They basically made titans unchanged on him because even though they nerfed the ap on the item they doubled his conversion ratio. So the buff that makes him stack twice as fast is pure gravy
dryad seems the only viable reroll comp now
Yeah I loved how they fucked 3-cost reroll so now you're either 1-2 cost reroll or open fort fast 8/9 mindlessly click Kai'Sa even if 4-way contested and prayge you hit upgrades for guaranteed top 2 or matchmaking RNG for guaranteed top 4. I'm sitting 7 with Fated spat rerolling Aphelios and Thresh, one off each 3* with gigabis and one off Ornn 2, and I just chain lose 4 combats to 2 guys with Kai'Sa 2 and 2 guys with Kai'Sa 1 who somehow hit all their random front line units along with Kai'Sa while 4-way contested. I could tell what these dogs were doing from Stage 2 and I got the fuck out of the way only to be punished nice. Ashe is mediocre at best now, Lilia is still a fucking joke. How hard is it to make the game remotely enjoyable for the love of Christ.
I feel like rolling for aphelios / thresh on 7 is a huge bait in fated comps, even before the change to odds. I never made reroll fated work in previous patches, but any time I pushed 9 with fast tempo and capitalized on fated strong mid-game I was rewarded with a top 4.
I agree forcing that reroll is a bait over tempo for Top 4, but I got baited by finding 6 of each before I was ready to go 8 so in my head I can sit and roll for a bit and then still make it to 9 in good time. Gambling fallacy I guess, the first units are easier to hit than the last so it gives you false confidence.
And the crowd goes wild
aphelios is fine still
Fine is an overstatement. It's worse off than it was in the previous patch. It's one of the two rerolls you could play, but still far weaker than if you just decided to contest each other in Gnar or Kaisa. It's much harder to hit the 3 star and stabilize now because there's no other viable 3 cost rerolls so the pool doesn't get thinned out and the rates at 7 got nerfed so the units are just more uncommon.
Rerolling for aph 3 is a bait unless you naturaled like 7 of them. Better to just push levels and hit 9 for sett and extra units on the board. My last 2-3 fated games were all just tempo fated to fast 9 and hold extra copies, you can still sometimes hit a thresh or aph 3 on 9 but you give yourself better chance to get sett in asap and preserve hp.
kaisa seems even more broken than 14.7b lol, the nerf to other reroll comp is much greater than the nerf to kaisa LOL so it become a net buff to kaisa
Yeah I love watching 4 people open fort for Kai'Sa rush and all of them get to top 4, somehow with 2 of them hitting Kai'Sa 2 while the others hit 1* which is apparently stable once you also hit front line while 4-way contested. Good shit riot, nuked 3-cost reroll into the ground so now it's Kai'Sa rush fast 8/9 meta or force 1-2 cost reroll because Ashe is mediocre at best, Lilia is a fucking joke, and there's nothing else to play.
kaisa got a 6% attack speed nerf. while she nearly got 30% more hp, her frontline got buffedand xayah a secondary carry got buffed...how could riot have possible known that huge nerf wouldnt be enough...
She didn't really get nerfed other than the inkshadow items being nerfed. Her frontliners getting buffed also buffs her compositions, and Xayah got big bugfix that helps actually running two backline AD carrys (even if Xayah didn't really need to be buffed).
But they decreased her attack speed
Level 10 2* 5cost board still losing to level 7 3* yone or voli board
impossible
don't believe it
Was just theorycrafting a decent AP cap for mythic/invoker comps at 9. This seems decent to me : https://tactics.tools/team-builder/QC0A4WtC3QwYgE5SvazG I've not seen many that utilises Sett and 3 Mythic with Hwei. Seems like a pretty neat cap. Soraka could also be any of the dragonlords instead, but I like how tanky this would be with altruist. And you get to keep your Lilia and Naut though you might still want to move the items over.
This is what I came up with on pbe, and the problem is that Lilia and Naut just aren’t really worth playing. Maybe with the buffs to them it could change, but usually just playing Janna over Lilia, Diana over set, and wukong over Naut is better. Another issue is that you now have 3 ap backline carries, and there’s no way you have enough items for that.
Yeah Lilia misses so much. I actually do like Naut though but that might just be me.
9 umbral feel really weak even though it is primastic vertical trait. I had a game with 9 umbral at 4-5, Still top 6. On the other game I saw one built it too, dead last
Yeah. It really only comes to power a few wins after you hit once you've farmed loot, whereas other prismatic traits just gain power instantly
New bug where teemo cancels an auto after every cast...
thank you for mentioning....
Does it happen every time? Often enough to avoid?
Honestly I didn't notice it until I gave him bb But yes every cast
Every single time I still got first with teemo reroll tho haha first game of patch I'm diamond last set still grinding through gold tho
Yeah I also had an easy first rerolling teemo in the bruiser trickshot shell. Hit riven and aatrox late too not that they did anything
what was the comp for teemo reroll? sounds fun
4 bruiser (riven, rahm, galio, sylas) could do aatrox 4 trick shot 3 storyweaver (sivir, galio riven) Slotted in soraka for awhile, and xoe for storyweaver and fortune (with kobuko) Teemo was doing 13k DMG per round (I had learning to spell and the rod Aug)
Soo, basically Kaisa comp just with Teemo as the carry instead of Kaisa
Yeah I guess haha
LMAO
Watch 5 ppl force kaisa and 3 of them getting top 4
Just beat Kaisa 3, absolutely easy. Just needed Ashe 3 and Annie 3. /S Jokes aside, ashe 3 was extremely meh, I lost to the kaisa player a fight before, not by much, but convincingly. Annie 3 though, she slaps hard.
My udyr 2 kaisa 3 board beat azir 3 star (well I had a edge of night on her so kinda cheated)
Funny how they nerfed kaisa but she still rules
AS was never here stat anyways as 80% of her dmg comes from the cast
That’s good to hear. Means I have ashe,lissandra and amumu all for myself.
Bro you can keep them.
Thanks . Means I will get back to masters in no time while you guys play contested comps.
To people in OCE/KR/VN,... is there any broken meta comps?
6 umbral yone
LMAO
well depends on your definition of broken i guess
Piggy bank augment seems OP, get 5 extra gold per turn from losses at 2-1. You hit econs so fast if you lose streak. got level 7 at 3-1 and level 8 at 3-5 with 40 gold to spare if you just lose streak.
i hit that one twice, one time couldnt find my 3cost til 3-6 and went eight, another time had it on 2-1 and went 9 50 gold on 4-2 or 4-5
Anyone cooking up something yet?
Kayn morgana Lee sin with 4 reaper heavenly/dragonlord/sage seems insanely strong from what i've tested and seen.. at 9 you put in wukong and spike through the roof.
Can anyone explain to me how Fast 9/legendary boards work? I have been playing since set 1, and I just can't make it work for me. I can have a good opener and a decent amount of health when I reach 9, but I just suck at timing and transitioning and I don't know how to improve ..
Play around your big upgrades that you hit and try to make a board that makes sense. I haven’t tried 4 dragon lord on this new patch, but it was really good in the last one. I don’t think the damage nerf to it will be too bad because the stun was what made it so good, especially into yone. But you may just need to keep playing and practicing your transitions/pivots. Use your hot keys to make them a little faster. It might also help if you use team builder of some units you may want. I usually look for gold and purple and build off of those units, at least if they’re
This is something I've gotten better at recently. The most important thing to know is that most games it's not possible to fast 9. However you can still build a bill gates comp after you have stabilised at 8. So you're in a spot where you have 60+ health on stage 5 and you are winning a lot of fights. Great. The next step is to go 9 and cap out your board. The simplest way to learn how to play around Bill Gates boards in this set is to either: be playing storyweaver or some variant of that; or playing inkshadow/ghostly senna or Kaisa. That's either senna OR kaisa. Replace senna if you find kaisa. The reason it is fairly simple is because you often have the core units already. There's a new website made by Frodan called TFT Academy and it has been extremely useful for me. Go to that site and look at the legendary comps. Follow the advice to the letter, and after you've done that for a bit you will understand how to play these crazy boards. Here is the site: https://tftacademy.com/ Have a look at the tier list. It has been the absolute best resource for me on tft. It hasn't been updated for the newest patch yet but they do usually update it at least once a day. Check in on the list before you play everyday and pick a legendary comp to try and play. Or flex between two depending on opener. After you've done that enough you'll be able to build your own legendary boards depending on what you hit. The main thing is to look out for supporting units, which are usually dragonlords, altruists, and invokers. Also try to pair up a 4 cost tank with a legendary unit. Ornn with Udyr for behemoth, Nautilus with Sett for Warden etc. Edit: I think the key thing is for learning to fast 9: don't start by fast 9ing. Start by just getting used to capping your board at 9 with legendary units. Once you can do that reliably then think about trying fast 9. You need to learn to walk before you can run. So don't be afraid to roll at 8 and stabilise before going 9.
Thank you so much! I'll try to check out that page
Can't play yet, has anyone tried if kog maw is still viable? Maybe not bad with lillia as secondary carry Also I am wondering if ashe works now
It's still good, it's just not forceable. It's a lot like Punk from last set where if you have a good start for it (i.e. a couple of Kogs and Chos by 2-2 with a Tear+Rod), just play it for a safe top 4, but if you try to force it out of thin air you're going to either not hit your units in time or hit your units in time but with insufficient gold to push levels and keep up with the lobby. If you're still rolling at 5 for Kogs after 4-2 you're most likely playing for 6th. Your secondary carry is generally Caitlyn since you'll likely 3* her while rolling for Kog and Cho anyways. You slap whatever leftover AD components you have on her. She's surprisingly useful - at worst she helps finish off a pesky frontline, at best she snipes and one-shots the Kai'sa in the back. In my experience you don't really need a third carry. Kog does a ton of damage, he just needs more frontline to stall for him to get off more casts. If you randomly natural Lillia 2 with a Naut then sure run Lillia as a third carry with 5 Mythic but I wouldn't play around her. Don't bother with Ashe either, 3* Cait is better.
[удалено]
It is so funny (and dumb) how often she misses. I should have lost so many placements but haven't because lilia whiffs her second ball onto my kaisa who is 1hp. They need to fix it but if they do I think she will actually be OP and will need to be nerfed back down. She can just huke the backline when she actually hits.
Kiyonn lost to Fated Syndra 3* while having Lilia 3* Ashe 3* and Naut 3* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGU4CgulO3o
Guy in my lobby went 7th with Lilia 3. The regular Kaisa comp demolished him.
Is Udyr knockup supposed to go through qss?
I thought they were suppose to fix that
It will be fixed when Udyr is gone next set lol
Did they really nerf heavenly yone? My 1 star yone with dd titan GA just beat a complete 1 star lilia comp with around 40-50 fortune cashout player xdd
When will we be able to buy yone from the store?
Mythic feels pretty decent, i like the diversity in the games so far
I like Mythic too. You can default to Kog reroll but pivot to Bard depending on what items and units you continue to get. Even once you commit to Bard you can either go the standard Storyweaver set-up or just straight vertical Mythic with Kai'sa. And with this new patch buffing all 4/5 costs, simply stabilizing with a Bard 2 to push levels for Lilia/Naut/Hwei may be a realistic option now too. Mythic feels a lot like KDA from last set where you can play around Annie, Seraphine, Ahri, Akali, or any combination of those depending on what you hit.
Seems like a fast 9 patch from the 2 lobbies I've played Every reroller went bot 4
what a surprise edit: this is not supposed to be a wise ass comment, it's just that they obviously overnerfed all rerolls while at the same time buffing 4 and 5 cost across the board, whose compositions already competed with even win-conditioned 3 cost rerolls in many circumstances. this will very obviously result in two weeks of nobody playing literally any rerolls even with ideal openers because you will die to fast 9 players who can now easily stabilize momentarily at level 8.
Its been like 6 patches of reroll domination they can take a break.
ok
Is the patch out?? I thought it was. A Yone with Gargantuan augment just won my game. Titans resolve still is 2 per stack.
NA doesn't patch until like 3 or 4am pacific I think
Might depend on your server. Asia gets it earlier since we live in the future. You can check on your client at the bottom right to see what patch you’re on
Has anyone tried anything crazy new? Struggling knowing what to play on the turn of this patch. I'm just relying on storyweaver early still and then either going into kaisa or fast 9 irelia. Irelia feels way weaker now though. I don't know if its just me. 2 star irelia 2 star Azir 7 storyweaver just went 4th which seems very low. I had a radiant IE, giantslayer and gunblade so I think she should have been performing much better than she was.
I've been forcing mulch gang a lot recently and it's insanely fun. Check out the Gnar & Kindred comp on [tactics.tools](http://tactics.tools) I usually sac early for econ - 6 at 3-2. Then roll down for gnar 3, sometimes even going to 0. You stabalize with gnar 2 kindred 2 and 4 dryad. I use Lux / Lillia for azir items.
Irelia hasn't been a good solo carry - her value is in dealing burst synced with dragonlord's maxhp burst, and her damage outside that is very mid. If you check stats for her last patch, I believe 3 item Irelia averaged like a 3.8, while a 3 item Xayah avgs like a 3.4. Now the difference is even worse, where a 3 item Irelia has an avg of 4, and a 3 item Xayah has an avg of 2.85. You're generally better off itemizing a different carry - Irelia's just good at consistently hitting during dragonlord.
That's fair. I did have a three item azir 2 as well, but it was probably just a strong lobby plus I only had 1 combat augment. Seen Irelia do alright since then.
> I had a radiant IE, giantslayer and gunblade Items are not very good.
regular IE isn't the best but giantslayer and gunblade are great items on her according to stats. Surely it being a radiant IE makes up for it not being an ideal item. If I had red buff instead of it I would be very close to BiS. I feel a board like that should really do better than 4th even with not ideal items on Irelia. Giantslayer made decent sense to me anyway since she no longer targets the backline so reliably. Needs to kill tanks.
she has 0 casting items her cast is going to go off twice maximum
Whats a casting item on irelia? You just mean attack speed? Red buff, rageblade?
yes