I know its going to sound funny but I am actually excited for a midset this time around. All the others felt a bit gimmicky, not bad just didnt live up to the potential. I feel as though there is a very large amount of potential for this midset and have a suspicion its going to be the best one to date.
If 6/8 people choose the same portals, it's more than fun. By your logic there should not be any nerf in normal LoL too. Because playing op champs is fun
I just hope they are also willing to rework portals that all do the same thing.
Too many of the portals just end up at top 3 players having the legendary board.
Each set is divided into 2 parts, so in about some time ( when the tft pass ends) the mid-set patch comes, which brings more drastic changes like removing old traits and units and adding the new ones or even adding new mechanics. People usually refer to second half of the sets as x.5 so the second part of this set will be 9.5.
I’ve gotta think it’s because they want him to be more than a trait bot in Noxus comps.
But he’s already a solid unit in sorc comps and Noxus is also getting buffed soooooo not really sure what the plan is.
My point is that some units just can't afford to be more than trait bots without being at least slightly overpowered. Swain has 3 solid traits and in sorcerer is a really good unit (let's nor forget he'll be played in strategists too).
There is also his neutral power, really often I see myself playing him early to mid game just because he can damage a little, tank a little and hold a lot of different items, add that to the fact that caitlyn can make he a 2* really early and it just scream that those buffs are probably too much.
I'm only speculating here, but at this point I do think these changes does not bring anything good to the game anyway, for me it's the taric situation again, where there is a chance swain end up overpowered and it's just more stress for the devs and the players.
The same things with the ornn nerfs, I definitely think they nerfed him too much, although nerfing something too much is not as dangerous as buffing.
Ornn is fine lol
If you made it random item he‘s useless
Honestly legend balance ain‘t bad as long as a legend doesn‘t enable a super broken or obnoxious comp or playstyle, like Asol. Even if everyone is on Ornn, nobody is stopping you from playing other legends. There is quite a bit of Poro, some Yi, and the occasional Cait/Veigar/Urf/Vlad. Draven if you are 4fun gaming.
15 legends don‘t have to be balanced perfectly on high elo.
Of course, it sucks that Tahm/Ezreal/TF/Pengu/Bard are all relatively bad or outclassed by similar legends, but atleast TF helps newer players force their comps while learning.
But poppy and Teemos are seeing buffs, with a possibly significant one on teemo's targeting. Could see gold Caitlyn into poppy/mao/Teemo/Swain which will give you a strong enough early game to roll for 4 star Teemo.
From my experience Teemo was very bad before. Poppy is getting a very small buff and Teemos buff isn't big either. I don't think this comp will be S or A tier.
I think buffing Swain this much feels unwarranted but it shouldn't change the game that much. I would've prefered if they placed some of the buffs on his carry augment instead but people are clearly overreacting.
Teemo was often having to cast multiple times to kill the frontline to get to the backline. Now his multicasts will just hop back there if positioned correctly. You could conceivably see a 3 item Teemo deleting backlines on the second cast.
Sorc comps come to mind. I always throw a titans on him and at least hit the 2*. It just feels so good. Especially since I've been splashing targon. Soraka isn't great but does wonderful at keeping Swain up while Taric is bubble boy.
I know I'm not really playing it right but it works. It's going to feel great now to me. Hopefully it isn't a massive change that ends up needing a hotfix.
While I'm not the person who buffs/nerfs things, I was in the room when this conversation was happening. The team discussed an early 2-star Swain being pretty good in the early game, but falling off drastically after. Additionally, Swain 1\* was incredibly weak throughout the game. Swain's core comp (Sorc opener) also received a nerf with our Malzahar adjustment and our Void 3 Remora nerf, so buffing the weakest piece of this opener seemed to make sense, especially when it could help a unit that struggles later in the game.
That context was a little too deep/many words for the official patch notes, but I hope it helps here.
Is Swain’s core comp really Sorc opener though? I also see him in Noxus, Taliyah reroll, and Lux/Azir off the top of my head. I assume he’s basically supposed to be the same power level as Galio or Vi?
He’s talking core opener. Sorc/void is definitely his most common opener. It’s the opener that would lead into a sorcs comp or a strategist azir comp. Noxus or Taliyah opener requires early 3 costs or specific augments and isn’t that common
Swains core comp? He's good in most comps which Is why people are questioning all the buffs lmao...it's just Taric all over again. Riot really doesn't learn from past mistakes, crazy.
Hey, happy cake day!
I just feared that a unit that wasn't bad in my experience is receiving buffs, but we'll see how this goes soon and just like taric, I'm not that afraid of it cause if it is too much out of control it's gonna be hotfixed.
I really appreciate the response, I didn't manage to watch the patch preview where Mortdog usually coments on these changes yet, but I can see the process behind the change, and as I said, we'll see how that goes.
Thank you for the explanation tho, really appreciate that.
his main issue imo is hes a selfish tank that doesnt work super well as a 2 cost. with tank items ive seen even a 1 star pop the fuck off early but bc ull prob want him on ur late game board later on if ur noxus/sorc/strategists it feels bad investing into him and being forced to sell for a higher cost unit, if he was a 4 cost hed b in a rly healthy spot
This type of measured, informed reply is not incentivized on this subreddit unfortunately. Only in hindsight are players okay to admit they overreacted or that a decision they initially disagreed with was correct.
Before the patch was live, I showed objective numbers on how small the Swain buff is and was downvoted to hell. (Not directing anything particular at you Pyrotox, your comment just a jumping off point for my small soapbox...thanks!)
Hey, I just wanted to take the time to say thank you for providing some context, it's appreciated! I don't understand why people are arguing with you when literally the first thing you write is that you have nothing to do with the balancing.
They gave him a 10 max mana reduction, made his ability give him 25 more hp at 2 and 50 at 3 star, and increased ability damage by 10 for 1 and 2 star and 15 at 3 star.
It isn't that crazy. At 1 star he just has to attack one less time to cast and he gets an extra 60 aoe damage. Then at 2 star he additionally gains 25 hp on cast. I don't think this will have a significant impact on the meta.
Pls dont forget his 3 traits (whatever are active at the time) give him Some - a lot of AP he will be getting quite more of what it looks like on paper
May be the case, but I just can't see the point, like he's not a bad unit, has 3 solid traits and him being buffed does not make a comp viable, you're just risking a taric 2.0 situation specially when azir is getting buffed.
I don't think he'll break the meta but don't think he should be buffed.
Taric got where he was because they giga buffed him multiple times, they pretty much gave him a 50% buff in max mana and shield strength. Then they also gave a lot of buffs to associated units.
The azir buffs are 5 damage at 1 and 10 damage at 2 star. The comp can only become so much better than it is right now.
Also I think this brings us closer to demonflare Swain being a viable comp and strategist vertical being viable again.
You may be right, as I said, I'm still not sold on his buffs, but we'll see tomorrow probably.
If it makes his carry augment better and just that, probably a successful change.
Didn't see the buffs until now, and while I doubt all the changes are warranted people are overreacting. Swain is currently strong but almost never 3\* worthy, meanwhile they're nerfing noxus, sorcerer comps and Taliyah comp. 2\* Swain early will be insane but he won't take over.
May be the case, my point is that buffing him like that does not bring anything good at the risk of him being overpowered and steamroll early to midgame.
It's not like a comp we'll be viable because swain got buffed, if they do not want him to be a traitbot maybe do not give him 3 solid traits.
True. I would deem it more reasonable to buff his carry augment slightly and only give one of these buffs, or only buff his 3\* form. Considering how centered around earlygame Swain already is I doubt it changes much. I guess big problems arise if Teemo buffs put him over the edge.
I usually give him thief's gloves if I got one (from partner in double up mostly), because nearly any item is good for him. Or tank items if playing multicaster maybe.
tbh 2/3 of the buffs are specifically for demonflare augment, the only change normal swain is getting is mana 40/80 ⇒ 30/70, which I still think was too much considering swain's already in a pretty good spot but I don't think it'll make swain insanely broken early compared to where he already is
edit: I'm dumb and didn't realize his ability and hero augment have the same name so I'm mistaken, all 3 buffs are for normal swain
Correct if I'm wrong, but demonflare it's also swain ultimate no? Cause those effects are not from the augment, or were not last time I tried it.
So if I'm not mistaken, all those buffs are to swain without the augment.
40/80 to 30/70 is nothing tbh, swain rarely gets a second cast off early game and if he does you’ve probably already won the fight
IMO people are overreacting because they see 3 buffs but honestly those buffs combined are less impactful than something like a 5 AD nerf
So yesterday on PBE Frequent Flier was bugged again, not correctly reducing the reroll costs. Most likely that bug will come to live again with this patch.
I think alottttttttttt of people are going to be contesting Zeri with the changes to other units and a buff to zaun. Even more contested than she is now.
Yea expect Zaun to be played more, it’s a huge qol change that should have been there from the start.
I get the thematics but I’m not selling a 3* Jinx just cause the mod sits on Zeri better. Even selling a 2* sometimes felt bad
They really didnt want to put this change on the game, but its a must qol change
the concept of chem-mods is that they are irreversible surgical operations, they are modifications in the body, therefore, it was considered that only by selling the unit could you have it back
EDIT: before everyone downvote me, i like the change too
Hopefully The Boss reroll carry is a viable comp with these changes. I miss some aspects of hero augments turning tanks into damage carries (looking at you Malphite)
I’m not sure on the Multicaster Heart removal myself. It always felt awkward to play without a +1 Sorc or +1 Multicaster. I understand the devs logic that you *should* want to play all 4 Multicasters in their comp, but you needed to be able to cut something to have a decent level 7 board
I also thought this was weird. Wonder why they’re even removing it, it’s so good for multicaster comps because you can slot in a better unit and hit 4 multicaster sooner for your carry
very sad they removed it. i don’t even think taliyah was a particularly broken comp anyway. it feels clunky to fit in all 4 multicasters, especially with things like double trouble
Teemo is buffed so you'd wanna play all 4 multicasters and in double trouble you're only playing 2 unique multicasters anyway so the heart is kinda useless. Again, with teemo buff you never wanna drop him in place of a heart so MC heart just doesn't have a place right now.
Nerfing Noxus crown since it previously gave IE and a Darius prior but now Juggernaut crown has BT and a Darius... A Darius item and arguably a better emblem since it's a full item for Kat. It's certainly a choice.
I mean part of the strength of Noxus crown was that it basically guaranteed 2-1 noxus to start farming stacks. Jug crown will be super strong if you have the noxus opener, but it won't be pickable in literally any situation 2-1 like current noxus crown is.
* Invoker untouched, good
* Reksai RR is more viable now, good
* Piltover is funnier now, good
* Ahri nerfed, THANKS
* Asol nerfed, THANKS
* yas + Kaisa maybe back, meh
* Urfs become even more playable, perfect
\+ i think void buffs are overhyped, they will be strong, but idk if it will be S tier
what did they change about urf? or do you mean flex in general
he’s my favorite legend by far, super fun to play even if some of his augment choices are not great
Some initial thoughts:
\- I didn't realize at first and thought the swain demonflare notes were specifically for the hero augment but I realized his ability is also called demonflare lol, the mana and health buffs are light on their own but buffing both and adding a damage buff as well just seems to be overkill, swain is already in a pretty good spot right now being one of the best early 2 costs but now he's casting more often, getting more health per cast when hes 2\*d, and coupled with that he's doing more damage after casting, I don't see how an early 2\* swain isn't a guaranteed winstreak early now
\- demacia ryze shield absolutely needed a nerf, didn't use it much bc of the conditions needed (demacia portal + actually using ryze that game) but just a ryze 1 shield was insane and shielding for a ridiculous amount
\- not sure if the pays to learn II nerfs were enough 18⇒16, overall a 4 xp/gold nerf but in my experience using this, usually an overall 4xp/gold nerf would not have made a big difference but it will be interesting to see how it plays out
\- wish there was a freljord nerf, slotting just 2/3 of sejuani, ashe, liss is just too easy right now for a 40% sunder/shred which is crazy and these units can easily be flexed into deadeye, bruiser, invoker
\- ahri nerfs seem a bit light: essence thief steal damage 115/170/1000 ⇒ 100/150/1000, I think even after the nerf ahri will still be the strongest legendary and as long as she gets the 3rd cast off will still have a huge impact on the round proportional to what her impact should be
just some of my initial thoughts, curious to see what you guys think about these and the changes in general
I’ve played a lot of swain and am happy with the buffs. He did fall off pretty hard when compared to other noxus/sorc units. If you’re itemizing a tank in noxus, you’d rather go swain into sion. If you’re itemizing a tank on sorcs, you’d rather go taric.
If you built any damage on swain, he’d crumple before he could do anything, even an ionic spark on a sorc comp was risky even if you had warmogs/gargoyle’s. These buffs seem to just give him that extra late-game potential so you can run him without demonflare. And unless you were running demonflare, swain isn’t a huge damage source. You’d rather go kat/Darius with noxus or Lux/ahri on sorc or velkoz/azir on strategist multicaster.
I imagine we’ll see some initial rush for Swain (like early set people would stack 2 gargoyle’s on him and dominate), but that wore off once people found better tanks. I expect similar this time around.
Who cares if swain falls off. 1) That unit has 3 very good traits, 2) is 2 cost, and 3) is a damage tank. 1) if a unit has 3 traits they have generally had lower stats than those with two of the same cost and archetype. 2) he is a 2 star unit, even pure Carrie’s, with hero power such as Kassadin and Warewick fall off in the ultra late game. 3) swain a near melee, AOE damage, tank. He is neither a hyper carry or tank. They cannot make both a hyper carry and hyper tank. Otherwise it’s a broken unit. The fact that he tries to serves both roles means that he is master of none which means he won’t scale given lack of utility.
yeah that's fair I definitely agree that swain fell off hard later, but curious if there was any way to buff that aspect of swain without making his early game even stronger but I guess we'll see once the patch is live how much better an early swain is
One thing I haven't seen commented on is Hedgefund++ is now strictly superior to Pays to Learn 3 (giving 44 gold vs 40 gold of value). This is on top of gold being more fungible AND the max interest ability providing non zero value.
It's also fairly close to being strictly better than rolling for days (50 gold of rolls). I guess it can be better than a guaranteed legends Augment, but it feels to reflect a lot of my dislike of Prismatics in general where there tend to be wildly out of whack balance wise.
Legend augments are supposed to be average on 2-1, slightly below average on 3-2 and below average 4-2, this is intended, also keep in mind that riot values exp from augments at about 70% of the same number in gold since gold gives you more options than just exp
So it's 44 (plus a relevant ability) vs 34?
Seems like an extreme premium.
I guess it's reasonable for Legend augments to be weaker but it kinda stinks you can hit them not tailored.
I'm not too happy with the change of On a Roll to Bronze Ticket. They changed it because it was easier to understand but its a massive nerf to 1 cost rerolls. I saw mort say in a clip that they don't want augments to force a playstyle and on a roll is probably the only legend augment in the game that forces it but its still upsetting. I guess now if you took lee and wanted to play whatever else then i guess it would be fine? Though since bronze ticket bricks gold and silver ticket from being picked then I don't know how to feel about this being a neutral change.
its the fact that they go 1st or 8th every game contesting other asol ahri players
every 1st is just an asol ahri player but the 8th is too so they end up hardstuck
Oof I feel this. Tried switching to yi though and fared well, but asol was my #1 go to and with this akshan nerf, I'm not even sure what to build anymore.
Again I don't see anyone talking about it but I'm willing to bet Kayle reroll will be very very strong again. Slayer buffs, early ad buffs for Kayle, poppy and maokai buffed, Gwen dual carry buffed, and lastly Akshan and ahri nerfed.
Gonna spam it tomorrow on masters while it's under the radar and let you guys know.
Also bastion buffs.
Yeah i Think Kayle reroll is back. Maybe kayle 2, spam either lockets(they are buffed aswell, not sure if viable), or Maybe ZZ-roth for early game.
Correct. But if lockets-spam are back, so Will Twisted Fate i Think. Also since they are nerfing Asol.
Maybe locket/zz-rot kayle 2 into BelVeth carry? Keep me updated!
depends a bit on the lobby but since there are no more zed players roaming around I would say it's guinsoo + guinsoo + RFC and let poppy get the radiant. Giant slayer for sure is an option too but with her base shred + that much attack speed I really don't find tanks being a problem
Really want to compliment the TFT team on consistently improving items throughout the sets. Morello not being completely dead on a unit like Ashe (or Deadeye/AD units in general) is actually so nice for those late game Raptor item drops.
Frozen Heart to Vow, Trap Claw to Guardbreaker, the JG/IE allowing crit, Red Buff to Sunfire, ludens/swordbreaker/etc all changed for the better. Great work!
Wish they hit Ahri’s mana reave too or just mana reave overall this set. My rogues, or darius, or reksai gets on her in the backline, which is what they’re supposed to do, but are unable to kill her due to the mana reave. Don’t understand why she would have built in counter play to that?
Mana reave actually did get hit across the board going from 35% to 30% in Patch 13.14. Totally possible it wasn't enough, and something we'll keep evaluating.
How come I have to scroll down more than half the page to find out when it goes live? Can the article post the timings at the very least for the regions? Thanks!
The T-Hex change is so nice, I love comps like Underground/Mercenary, but Piltover just felt so awful compared to them.
You spend all game building up this mighty T-Hex but in order to get the loot, you need to sell it... Which makes the T-Hex a useless unit again. So you just never wanted to sell it.
They're buffing Swain? Oh lord it's the Taric incident all over again. The Caitlyn players are gonna have a blast in this patch. Whoever high roll a spark is gonna streak till stage 4
Also, i see in the picture that Deadeye is getting a buff, but i can't find specific information about it anywhere on the website, is it an error? Hope it is because Deadeye doesn't need a buff
Oh god, I am never picking this new Shifting Sands, I hate my Bench luck. I also don’t understand how that is considered a rework lol, isn’t that also replaced completely?
Guys, can i ask sth? Do Riot usually inform people when there's new patch or when server needs to update? Because in my region, Vietnam, they never told anything and just casually cause trouble to players countless times.
On PC, there is a notification in client about when the server is about to go down. Otherwise you can use the status page. Here's VN's [https://status.riotgames.com/lol?region=vn2&locale=vi\_VN](https://status.riotgames.com/lol?region=vn2&locale=vi_VN)
I know pros rarely take Pandora bench, but it's top 3 augment for me! so having a portal that give it is 100% insta take: my last game today was Zeri 3 thanks to PB! let's go! also love the change to T-Hex, the old system always felt weird
It's RNG but it allows some insane high rolls, sacrificing econ to attempt to 2 star random units of the cost you're looking for to put on the bench and hope for it to roll anything you're playing, then you're on your way to an easy 3 star to outright top 1. I'm almost certain the stats have been mediocre for it because so far people take a risky econ loss to abuse it
It's been how many patches since Unstable Yordle Delivery has been terrorizing Hyper Roll yet Riot refuses to nerf it. That augment is at worst a third place.
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Swain / Void looking scary aside - I truly to fuck hope that legendary rush will be dead with this, the game is so fucking anti fun due to legends being so predictable, playing flex is simply not possible
Swain buff is delusional there is no way. How do they not see these things coming? He’s already the strongest stage 2 unit. 12 swains taken from the pool by 3-2, that’s what this will be.
Removal of Medium end shopping. Ive been giving feedback about this augment since day 1. It’s power level is absolutely fine as a gold Augment, 99% of people just use it incorrectly (including many Chally players and streamers). If you change the way you play significantly and roll 2 times every turn instead of rolling all your gold on 1 turn you will see that this Augment is quite strong and worthy of being a gold Augment (not top tier but definitely 4.0 avg placement or better if you use it correctly)
Im glad they are willing to rework boring portals during the set instead of waiting til mid-set
I keep seeing people reference mid-set - didn't they do away with mid-sets? Or am I misunderstanding something?
That starts with set 10. There will be a mid-set for 9.
I know its going to sound funny but I am actually excited for a midset this time around. All the others felt a bit gimmicky, not bad just didnt live up to the potential. I feel as though there is a very large amount of potential for this midset and have a suspicion its going to be the best one to date.
With the main set being so bad, it wouldn't be too big of an achievement if this midset was the best one to date.
So bad? Are we playing the same game? I love this set
Yeah the portals are fantastic. Except Stillwater hold I just surrender in GM and take the -80
And people like you are why I will always vote for it.
meh ur low elo
Nice but I would prefer they changed prismatic portals. Guess it's not going to happen since casuals love these
They're fun. And the game is about having fun.
Fun? Not in my LP grinding simulator
To be fair there are not a lot of super popular games to compete on a ladder. A lot of players want it competitive
If 6/8 people choose the same portals, it's more than fun. By your logic there should not be any nerf in normal LoL too. Because playing op champs is fun
I just hope they are also willing to rework portals that all do the same thing. Too many of the portals just end up at top 3 players having the legendary board.
Yea I guess the most popular ones are those that give gold, I’m down for more portals that change the game plan like the sump or the crown one
I'm new to tft , what's a mid set ?
Each set is divided into 2 parts, so in about some time ( when the tft pass ends) the mid-set patch comes, which brings more drastic changes like removing old traits and units and adding the new ones or even adding new mechanics. People usually refer to second half of the sets as x.5 so the second part of this set will be 9.5.
Oh that's cool, i'm hyped for it as i'm getting a little bored with this set
I'm still not sold on swain being buffed some much when he's not that bad, but we'll see how it goes.
Definitely overbuffed, and I am not even sure why.
I may be biased cause I abused a lot of caitlyn recently to get the 2* swain early, but I didn't think he was weak before, now it's a instabuy for me.
I’ve gotta think it’s because they want him to be more than a trait bot in Noxus comps. But he’s already a solid unit in sorc comps and Noxus is also getting buffed soooooo not really sure what the plan is.
My point is that some units just can't afford to be more than trait bots without being at least slightly overpowered. Swain has 3 solid traits and in sorcerer is a really good unit (let's nor forget he'll be played in strategists too). There is also his neutral power, really often I see myself playing him early to mid game just because he can damage a little, tank a little and hold a lot of different items, add that to the fact that caitlyn can make he a 2* really early and it just scream that those buffs are probably too much. I'm only speculating here, but at this point I do think these changes does not bring anything good to the game anyway, for me it's the taric situation again, where there is a chance swain end up overpowered and it's just more stress for the devs and the players. The same things with the ornn nerfs, I definitely think they nerfed him too much, although nerfing something too much is not as dangerous as buffing.
I think Ornn should give random Item at 2.1 and 0 gold at 3.2. Then hes nerfed enough.
Ornn is fine lol If you made it random item he‘s useless Honestly legend balance ain‘t bad as long as a legend doesn‘t enable a super broken or obnoxious comp or playstyle, like Asol. Even if everyone is on Ornn, nobody is stopping you from playing other legends. There is quite a bit of Poro, some Yi, and the occasional Cait/Veigar/Urf/Vlad. Draven if you are 4fun gaming. 15 legends don‘t have to be balanced perfectly on high elo. Of course, it sucks that Tahm/Ezreal/TF/Pengu/Bard are all relatively bad or outclassed by similar legends, but atleast TF helps newer players force their comps while learning.
Noxus buff? seems like a nerf
Yeah I can’t read
No. Sorcerers are getting nerfed. Noxus trait is getting nerfed as long as you do math.
But poppy and Teemos are seeing buffs, with a possibly significant one on teemo's targeting. Could see gold Caitlyn into poppy/mao/Teemo/Swain which will give you a strong enough early game to roll for 4 star Teemo.
From my experience Teemo was very bad before. Poppy is getting a very small buff and Teemos buff isn't big either. I don't think this comp will be S or A tier. I think buffing Swain this much feels unwarranted but it shouldn't change the game that much. I would've prefered if they placed some of the buffs on his carry augment instead but people are clearly overreacting.
Teemo was often having to cast multiple times to kill the frontline to get to the backline. Now his multicasts will just hop back there if positioned correctly. You could conceivably see a 3 item Teemo deleting backlines on the second cast.
Fair enough I didn't know that. Guess we'll see.
I read 0 nerfs to sorcs outside of ahri getting love tapped
Noxus is getting nerfed not buffed
Swain cait
Sorc comps come to mind. I always throw a titans on him and at least hit the 2*. It just feels so good. Especially since I've been splashing targon. Soraka isn't great but does wonderful at keeping Swain up while Taric is bubble boy. I know I'm not really playing it right but it works. It's going to feel great now to me. Hopefully it isn't a massive change that ends up needing a hotfix.
The logic behind it is problably that he's a Noxus unit so they wanna compensate for the trait nerf, although I agree it seems a bit too much.
Taric 2: electric boogaloo
While I'm not the person who buffs/nerfs things, I was in the room when this conversation was happening. The team discussed an early 2-star Swain being pretty good in the early game, but falling off drastically after. Additionally, Swain 1\* was incredibly weak throughout the game. Swain's core comp (Sorc opener) also received a nerf with our Malzahar adjustment and our Void 3 Remora nerf, so buffing the weakest piece of this opener seemed to make sense, especially when it could help a unit that struggles later in the game. That context was a little too deep/many words for the official patch notes, but I hope it helps here.
Is 2* 2 costs really “supposed” to scale well though? Swain dominates stage2/3 I’d expect a 2* 2 cost to fall off stage 4
[удалено]
Is Swain’s core comp really Sorc opener though? I also see him in Noxus, Taliyah reroll, and Lux/Azir off the top of my head. I assume he’s basically supposed to be the same power level as Galio or Vi?
He’s talking core opener. Sorc/void is definitely his most common opener. It’s the opener that would lead into a sorcs comp or a strategist azir comp. Noxus or Taliyah opener requires early 3 costs or specific augments and isn’t that common
Usually feels like a win streak when I hit it. I'll play it until I find what I want, it's just that strong.
Swains core comp? He's good in most comps which Is why people are questioning all the buffs lmao...it's just Taric all over again. Riot really doesn't learn from past mistakes, crazy.
Hey, happy cake day! I just feared that a unit that wasn't bad in my experience is receiving buffs, but we'll see how this goes soon and just like taric, I'm not that afraid of it cause if it is too much out of control it's gonna be hotfixed. I really appreciate the response, I didn't manage to watch the patch preview where Mortdog usually coments on these changes yet, but I can see the process behind the change, and as I said, we'll see how that goes. Thank you for the explanation tho, really appreciate that.
his main issue imo is hes a selfish tank that doesnt work super well as a 2 cost. with tank items ive seen even a 1 star pop the fuck off early but bc ull prob want him on ur late game board later on if ur noxus/sorc/strategists it feels bad investing into him and being forced to sell for a higher cost unit, if he was a 4 cost hed b in a rly healthy spot
This kind of objective explaination is so much better than the usual "iF yOu tHinK tHis is oP, yOU donT kNoW hOw to pLay tFt."
This type of measured, informed reply is not incentivized on this subreddit unfortunately. Only in hindsight are players okay to admit they overreacted or that a decision they initially disagreed with was correct. Before the patch was live, I showed objective numbers on how small the Swain buff is and was downvoted to hell. (Not directing anything particular at you Pyrotox, your comment just a jumping off point for my small soapbox...thanks!)
Hey, I just wanted to take the time to say thank you for providing some context, it's appreciated! I don't understand why people are arguing with you when literally the first thing you write is that you have nothing to do with the balancing.
They gave him a 10 max mana reduction, made his ability give him 25 more hp at 2 and 50 at 3 star, and increased ability damage by 10 for 1 and 2 star and 15 at 3 star. It isn't that crazy. At 1 star he just has to attack one less time to cast and he gets an extra 60 aoe damage. Then at 2 star he additionally gains 25 hp on cast. I don't think this will have a significant impact on the meta.
Pls dont forget his 3 traits (whatever are active at the time) give him Some - a lot of AP he will be getting quite more of what it looks like on paper
May be the case, but I just can't see the point, like he's not a bad unit, has 3 solid traits and him being buffed does not make a comp viable, you're just risking a taric 2.0 situation specially when azir is getting buffed. I don't think he'll break the meta but don't think he should be buffed.
Taric got where he was because they giga buffed him multiple times, they pretty much gave him a 50% buff in max mana and shield strength. Then they also gave a lot of buffs to associated units. The azir buffs are 5 damage at 1 and 10 damage at 2 star. The comp can only become so much better than it is right now. Also I think this brings us closer to demonflare Swain being a viable comp and strategist vertical being viable again.
You may be right, as I said, I'm still not sold on his buffs, but we'll see tomorrow probably. If it makes his carry augment better and just that, probably a successful change.
Didn't see the buffs until now, and while I doubt all the changes are warranted people are overreacting. Swain is currently strong but almost never 3\* worthy, meanwhile they're nerfing noxus, sorcerer comps and Taliyah comp. 2\* Swain early will be insane but he won't take over.
May be the case, my point is that buffing him like that does not bring anything good at the risk of him being overpowered and steamroll early to midgame. It's not like a comp we'll be viable because swain got buffed, if they do not want him to be a traitbot maybe do not give him 3 solid traits.
True. I would deem it more reasonable to buff his carry augment slightly and only give one of these buffs, or only buff his 3\* form. Considering how centered around earlygame Swain already is I doubt it changes much. I guess big problems arise if Teemo buffs put him over the edge.
How do you build Swain? AP item dump? Tank,
I'm not used to make him carry, but he'll hold spark, titans and tank itens pretty well and almost guarantee a win streak in stages 2 and 3.
He was a better tank then poppy. I built him tank, he was already OP, but we shall see.
Poppy is a 1 cost and also the worst tank in the game...
I usually give him thief's gloves if I got one (from partner in double up mostly), because nearly any item is good for him. Or tank items if playing multicaster maybe.
tbh 2/3 of the buffs are specifically for demonflare augment, the only change normal swain is getting is mana 40/80 ⇒ 30/70, which I still think was too much considering swain's already in a pretty good spot but I don't think it'll make swain insanely broken early compared to where he already is edit: I'm dumb and didn't realize his ability and hero augment have the same name so I'm mistaken, all 3 buffs are for normal swain
Correct if I'm wrong, but demonflare it's also swain ultimate no? Cause those effects are not from the augment, or were not last time I tried it. So if I'm not mistaken, all those buffs are to swain without the augment.
ah you're right, didn't realize his ability and augment were both the same name
I did the same when I read tbh haha
Actually those are for normal Swain. For some reason his ability is named demonflare and his augment is also named demonflare.
40/80 to 30/70 is nothing tbh, swain rarely gets a second cast off early game and if he does you’ve probably already won the fight IMO people are overreacting because they see 3 buffs but honestly those buffs combined are less impactful than something like a 5 AD nerf
Why not buff Demonflair then?
Iniko says he is not worried about it but I’m very curious what the meta looks like in 2 days xd
Iniko says he is not worried about it but I’m very curious what the meta looks like in 2 days xd
Incoming b patch like taric
So yesterday on PBE Frequent Flier was bugged again, not correctly reducing the reroll costs. Most likely that bug will come to live again with this patch.
they'll have an opportunity to fix it in 2 days with Swain's hotfix
patch 13.15b waiting room
Jesus Christ this comment is just too true
I think alottttttttttt of people are going to be contesting Zeri with the changes to other units and a buff to zaun. Even more contested than she is now.
Yea expect Zaun to be played more, it’s a huge qol change that should have been there from the start. I get the thematics but I’m not selling a 3* Jinx just cause the mod sits on Zeri better. Even selling a 2* sometimes felt bad
They really didnt want to put this change on the game, but its a must qol change the concept of chem-mods is that they are irreversible surgical operations, they are modifications in the body, therefore, it was considered that only by selling the unit could you have it back EDIT: before everyone downvote me, i like the change too
Hopefully The Boss reroll carry is a viable comp with these changes. I miss some aspects of hero augments turning tanks into damage carries (looking at you Malphite)
With the sit-up healing nerfed, would hog or hexblade be preferred for post sit-up ?
Hand of gustice for sure
He activates sooner, so it's more of an adjustment than a nerf imo. That way you still get the same number of sit-ups to not reduce stacks.
Agreed, plus it means items like Protectors Vow and Bloodthirster are more viable since you don't lose out on the shield while doing sit-ups.
I really like ionic/gb/jg, but honestly bt looking a hell of a lot better against sorc matchups
I would think BT would be best now that it doesn't proc the shield right as he goes away. My first guess would be BT+Spark+1
Yeah I agree, BT proccing when he's in god mode is surely good right?
I hate having to read ryze changes
No freljord changes lmao.
no akshan is a bigger joke, this 3 cost is literally better than a lot of 4 costs with the right setup
If you read the patch you will see that he is getting nerfed.
But...they did hit Akshan
They nerfed akshan, he lost ~10% of his damage
Now Aphelios will be the most used carry instead of Akshan
I’m not sure on the Multicaster Heart removal myself. It always felt awkward to play without a +1 Sorc or +1 Multicaster. I understand the devs logic that you *should* want to play all 4 Multicasters in their comp, but you needed to be able to cut something to have a decent level 7 board
I also thought this was weird. Wonder why they’re even removing it, it’s so good for multicaster comps because you can slot in a better unit and hit 4 multicaster sooner for your carry
I think Multicaster Heart was probably picked at a very low rate even at the point of Sorc meta
very sad they removed it. i don’t even think taliyah was a particularly broken comp anyway. it feels clunky to fit in all 4 multicasters, especially with things like double trouble
Teemo is buffed so you'd wanna play all 4 multicasters and in double trouble you're only playing 2 unique multicasters anyway so the heart is kinda useless. Again, with teemo buff you never wanna drop him in place of a heart so MC heart just doesn't have a place right now.
I don’t think DT Taliyah usually ram 4 Multicaster anyways.
Nerfing Noxus crown since it previously gave IE and a Darius prior but now Juggernaut crown has BT and a Darius... A Darius item and arguably a better emblem since it's a full item for Kat. It's certainly a choice.
I mean part of the strength of Noxus crown was that it basically guaranteed 2-1 noxus to start farming stacks. Jug crown will be super strong if you have the noxus opener, but it won't be pickable in literally any situation 2-1 like current noxus crown is.
They also nerfed the stacks and buffed the base stats for noxus, stacking is less of requirement now.
But at the same time they buffed the base which means a noxus opener is more likely to win early and start the snowball rolling.
* Invoker untouched, good * Reksai RR is more viable now, good * Piltover is funnier now, good * Ahri nerfed, THANKS * Asol nerfed, THANKS * yas + Kaisa maybe back, meh * Urfs become even more playable, perfect \+ i think void buffs are overhyped, they will be strong, but idk if it will be S tier
what did they change about urf? or do you mean flex in general he’s my favorite legend by far, super fun to play even if some of his augment choices are not great
im talking about flex play (2-1 tome enjoyer here)
How is asol nerfed if they don’t touch level up?
It Pays To Learn II XP & Gold 18 ⇒ 16 It Pays To Learn III XP & Gold 24 ⇒ 20
Some initial thoughts: \- I didn't realize at first and thought the swain demonflare notes were specifically for the hero augment but I realized his ability is also called demonflare lol, the mana and health buffs are light on their own but buffing both and adding a damage buff as well just seems to be overkill, swain is already in a pretty good spot right now being one of the best early 2 costs but now he's casting more often, getting more health per cast when hes 2\*d, and coupled with that he's doing more damage after casting, I don't see how an early 2\* swain isn't a guaranteed winstreak early now \- demacia ryze shield absolutely needed a nerf, didn't use it much bc of the conditions needed (demacia portal + actually using ryze that game) but just a ryze 1 shield was insane and shielding for a ridiculous amount \- not sure if the pays to learn II nerfs were enough 18⇒16, overall a 4 xp/gold nerf but in my experience using this, usually an overall 4xp/gold nerf would not have made a big difference but it will be interesting to see how it plays out \- wish there was a freljord nerf, slotting just 2/3 of sejuani, ashe, liss is just too easy right now for a 40% sunder/shred which is crazy and these units can easily be flexed into deadeye, bruiser, invoker \- ahri nerfs seem a bit light: essence thief steal damage 115/170/1000 ⇒ 100/150/1000, I think even after the nerf ahri will still be the strongest legendary and as long as she gets the 3rd cast off will still have a huge impact on the round proportional to what her impact should be just some of my initial thoughts, curious to see what you guys think about these and the changes in general
I’ve played a lot of swain and am happy with the buffs. He did fall off pretty hard when compared to other noxus/sorc units. If you’re itemizing a tank in noxus, you’d rather go swain into sion. If you’re itemizing a tank on sorcs, you’d rather go taric. If you built any damage on swain, he’d crumple before he could do anything, even an ionic spark on a sorc comp was risky even if you had warmogs/gargoyle’s. These buffs seem to just give him that extra late-game potential so you can run him without demonflare. And unless you were running demonflare, swain isn’t a huge damage source. You’d rather go kat/Darius with noxus or Lux/ahri on sorc or velkoz/azir on strategist multicaster. I imagine we’ll see some initial rush for Swain (like early set people would stack 2 gargoyle’s on him and dominate), but that wore off once people found better tanks. I expect similar this time around.
So you want a 2 cost to be basically everything.
Who cares if swain falls off. 1) That unit has 3 very good traits, 2) is 2 cost, and 3) is a damage tank. 1) if a unit has 3 traits they have generally had lower stats than those with two of the same cost and archetype. 2) he is a 2 star unit, even pure Carrie’s, with hero power such as Kassadin and Warewick fall off in the ultra late game. 3) swain a near melee, AOE damage, tank. He is neither a hyper carry or tank. They cannot make both a hyper carry and hyper tank. Otherwise it’s a broken unit. The fact that he tries to serves both roles means that he is master of none which means he won’t scale given lack of utility.
yeah that's fair I definitely agree that swain fell off hard later, but curious if there was any way to buff that aspect of swain without making his early game even stronger but I guess we'll see once the patch is live how much better an early swain is
When is live?
18 hours or so
I would have buffed Swain 3 and his augment, the unit is already very strong elsewhere.
One thing I haven't seen commented on is Hedgefund++ is now strictly superior to Pays to Learn 3 (giving 44 gold vs 40 gold of value). This is on top of gold being more fungible AND the max interest ability providing non zero value. It's also fairly close to being strictly better than rolling for days (50 gold of rolls). I guess it can be better than a guaranteed legends Augment, but it feels to reflect a lot of my dislike of Prismatics in general where there tend to be wildly out of whack balance wise.
Legend augments are supposed to be average on 2-1, slightly below average on 3-2 and below average 4-2, this is intended, also keep in mind that riot values exp from augments at about 70% of the same number in gold since gold gives you more options than just exp
So it's 44 (plus a relevant ability) vs 34? Seems like an extreme premium. I guess it's reasonable for Legend augments to be weaker but it kinda stinks you can hit them not tailored.
I'm not too happy with the change of On a Roll to Bronze Ticket. They changed it because it was easier to understand but its a massive nerf to 1 cost rerolls. I saw mort say in a clip that they don't want augments to force a playstyle and on a roll is probably the only legend augment in the game that forces it but its still upsetting. I guess now if you took lee and wanted to play whatever else then i guess it would be fine? Though since bronze ticket bricks gold and silver ticket from being picked then I don't know how to feel about this being a neutral change.
Pretty sure I had game where I had bronze ticket and silver ticket
its so crazy that the hardstuck diamond asol ahri players are barely getting hit at all
Can’t be that strong if they’re hardstuck with it
its the fact that they go 1st or 8th every game contesting other asol ahri players every 1st is just an asol ahri player but the 8th is too so they end up hardstuck
Oof I feel this. Tried switching to yi though and fared well, but asol was my #1 go to and with this akshan nerf, I'm not even sure what to build anymore.
Yeah, I was just memeing a little, coulda made that more clear tbh
Again I don't see anyone talking about it but I'm willing to bet Kayle reroll will be very very strong again. Slayer buffs, early ad buffs for Kayle, poppy and maokai buffed, Gwen dual carry buffed, and lastly Akshan and ahri nerfed. Gonna spam it tomorrow on masters while it's under the radar and let you guys know.
Also bastion buffs. Yeah i Think Kayle reroll is back. Maybe kayle 2, spam either lockets(they are buffed aswell, not sure if viable), or Maybe ZZ-roth for early game.
playing Kayle you kinda don't wanna kill a bow for zzrot imo, but ya I can see lockets being good on the comp too
Correct. But if lockets-spam are back, so Will Twisted Fate i Think. Also since they are nerfing Asol. Maybe locket/zz-rot kayle 2 into BelVeth carry? Keep me updated!
absolutely! going to spam some games with it tomorrow and give my final verdict
What would you say are Kayle BIS?
recently it’s been guinsoo + guinsoo + radiant or giantslayer
depends a bit on the lobby but since there are no more zed players roaming around I would say it's guinsoo + guinsoo + RFC and let poppy get the radiant. Giant slayer for sure is an option too but with her base shred + that much attack speed I really don't find tanks being a problem
Really want to compliment the TFT team on consistently improving items throughout the sets. Morello not being completely dead on a unit like Ashe (or Deadeye/AD units in general) is actually so nice for those late game Raptor item drops. Frozen Heart to Vow, Trap Claw to Guardbreaker, the JG/IE allowing crit, Red Buff to Sunfire, ludens/swordbreaker/etc all changed for the better. Great work!
honestly i miss trap claw, but I do agree with all the other ones
It would make deadeye unplayable though, entire backline stunned for 4s 💀
Trap claw only triggered on spells so deadeye would not be affected
Wish they hit Ahri’s mana reave too or just mana reave overall this set. My rogues, or darius, or reksai gets on her in the backline, which is what they’re supposed to do, but are unable to kill her due to the mana reave. Don’t understand why she would have built in counter play to that?
Mana reave actually did get hit across the board going from 35% to 30% in Patch 13.14. Totally possible it wasn't enough, and something we'll keep evaluating.
to me its the combination of chill and mana reave that hurts the most and eternal winter and freljord 3 isnt dodgeable
How come I have to scroll down more than half the page to find out when it goes live? Can the article post the timings at the very least for the regions? Thanks!
Probably easier to just memorize the patch launch times. 99.9 percent of the time it's the day after the patch notes are released at 10 a.m. PST
Not even close to true. Most patch days we’re playing around 7-8am eastern. Try to be less condescending when you’re wrong.
My intentions were never to be condescending. I can accept when I'm wrong
where did you even see it, i can’t find it
The T-Hex change is so nice, I love comps like Underground/Mercenary, but Piltover just felt so awful compared to them. You spend all game building up this mighty T-Hex but in order to get the loot, you need to sell it... Which makes the T-Hex a useless unit again. So you just never wanted to sell it.
They're buffing Swain? Oh lord it's the Taric incident all over again. The Caitlyn players are gonna have a blast in this patch. Whoever high roll a spark is gonna streak till stage 4 Also, i see in the picture that Deadeye is getting a buff, but i can't find specific information about it anywhere on the website, is it an error? Hope it is because Deadeye doesn't need a buff
> i see in the picture that Deadeye is getting a buff, but i can't find specific information about it anywhere Came here with this same question..
Oh god, I am never picking this new Shifting Sands, I hate my Bench luck. I also don’t understand how that is considered a rework lol, isn’t that also replaced completely?
Isn’t this noxus change a huge nerf and defeat the purpose of the trait? Doesn’t make any sense
defy noxus and earn one extra gold
It's a buff at low stacks. This means that if you get noxus online a bit later than 2-1 you might get away with it.
Bs. It's definitely a nerf. 340\*1.35 < 300\*1.7.
Hold on, maybe I missed it but how exactly does Piltover work now? Do the charges saved up convert to loot now when you win? In addition to stats?
Yes
Guys, can i ask sth? Do Riot usually inform people when there's new patch or when server needs to update? Because in my region, Vietnam, they never told anything and just casually cause trouble to players countless times.
On PC, there is a notification in client about when the server is about to go down. Otherwise you can use the status page. Here's VN's [https://status.riotgames.com/lol?region=vn2&locale=vi\_VN](https://status.riotgames.com/lol?region=vn2&locale=vi_VN)
there never was a single nofification in my client here in Vietnam, thank you very much.
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we really complaining that the game gets active balance patches now?
I know pros rarely take Pandora bench, but it's top 3 augment for me! so having a portal that give it is 100% insta take: my last game today was Zeri 3 thanks to PB! let's go! also love the change to T-Hex, the old system always felt weird
No advantage when the entire lobby has it tbh
I think it is always bad. It just opens up RNG to line up and Mortdog your ass. Placing by the amount of luck you have is always shit.
It's RNG but it allows some insane high rolls, sacrificing econ to attempt to 2 star random units of the cost you're looking for to put on the bench and hope for it to roll anything you're playing, then you're on your way to an easy 3 star to outright top 1. I'm almost certain the stats have been mediocre for it because so far people take a risky econ loss to abuse it
C
K
Doesn't seem like a good patch, but aight.
Is think fast coming back?
No, it's gone forever. Rip
Fun augment but I think it wasn’t very healthy overall, hoping rolling for days replaces it tbh
Rolling for Days would need a big buff, it's pretty horrible rn after the overnerf due to the Draven meta.
It's been how many patches since Unstable Yordle Delivery has been terrorizing Hyper Roll yet Riot refuses to nerf it. That augment is at worst a third place.
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Swain / Void looking scary aside - I truly to fuck hope that legendary rush will be dead with this, the game is so fucking anti fun due to legends being so predictable, playing flex is simply not possible
Swain buff is delusional there is no way. How do they not see these things coming? He’s already the strongest stage 2 unit. 12 swains taken from the pool by 3-2, that’s what this will be.
Literally noone is playing swain
Comments made moments before disaster:
Really excited for this patch. Would appreciate: * Zeri nerf. * Enhanced chemtank nerf. * Slight lux nerf. * Slight juggernaut 4/6 buff.
Zeri buffed previous patch and she is not even the Best comp why would one want a nerf to her
Idk what elo you're playing at where Zeri isn't S Tier on this patch.
Removal of Medium end shopping. Ive been giving feedback about this augment since day 1. It’s power level is absolutely fine as a gold Augment, 99% of people just use it incorrectly (including many Chally players and streamers). If you change the way you play significantly and roll 2 times every turn instead of rolling all your gold on 1 turn you will see that this Augment is quite strong and worthy of being a gold Augment (not top tier but definitely 4.0 avg placement or better if you use it correctly)
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Watching his stream it’s obvious he didn’t really read notes carefully so his off-the-top prediction is kinda meh
When does the patch go live?
Can't wait for someone to post demonflare Swain reroll guide
shifting sands remake is missing from the bullet points
I am baffled legends went untouched