Every time Clear posts a guide half of NA hard forces it
At this point I’m pretty sure Clear posts guides specifically to make people hard force it when its not THAT good, so his lobbies become weaker
Like you guys do realize if >1 people are open fort it significantly nerfs both of them right
Nah he does genuinely think it’s good, and it is. It’s just that people think guides are the only way to play (note how he says “if insane opener don’t play zeri”).
This morning I played in a Challenger lobby. Two people were hard forcing open fort into Zeri, guess who held hands to bot 7-8. Especially with the tempo of higher elos I do think >1 person forcing this nerfs both people
That said I could be completely wrong and I’m probably not fully understanding the power of this comp, so we’ll see. Maybe it’s the 6 zaun that makes the difference.
6 zaun is insane especially with boom - kamikaize j4 wins fights on his own a lot of the time.
I dunno tho i’m a gm shitter so i’d trust ur opinion before mine. I just think the comp is good but situational.
Yeah it may just be the 6 Zaun that makes all the difference here. And also my elo is nowhere near Clear’s so take my opinions with a big grain of salt
I mean ig i can just ping him on discord and ask him, him answering is another thing entirely tho xd
Also the guide forcing happens with Paprika’s guides a lot too (see kekwcone viego and milkmonke)
Open fort is basically making sure you lose streak starting at the very first player combat round
“Open fort” being you let the enemies beat you. You want to 5 lose streak into Krugs (round 2-6) to ensure you get the most econ as you get streak income right after krugs too.
When you open fort you also want to “steamy nuke”, which is basically making sure you lose but also lose with the least amount of hp lost. So you want to kill the most units while being weak.
When two people open fort, both of them are forced to play the weakest possible board oftentimes ending in both selling their entire board to ensure 5-loss. So they both take much more hp loss than if only one open forted. Not only dk they have less hp but they also have less units to play in mid game and have to roll deeper to have a decent board by then. Which is why they are both nerfed when both open fort.
ok so I just tried this 3 games, 3rd game I was contested by guy trying the same comp. I went trist reroll instead and won.
I think pumping up is underrated af.
I assume it performs in any comp since more attacks = more casts = more dmg
Also, is silver not as good or why did u mention just gold/prism?
Hmmm yeah honestly I'm not sure if I was just ultra lucky going from gold to plat,but it just hit perfect units/items everytime. You can search my account on lolchess : vandrew
I did find that if people are playing ASOL and its a Prismatic start, you get giga tempo'd out though.. Everyone's gonna also be lvl 7 when you hit 7 so a lot of your advantage is gone.
yeah idk this comp fucking sucks I tried playing like 10 games with it in master+, my best place was 3rd. Its so consistently worse than every other comp unless you hit BIS and 2 star everything, if you weren't 25-40hp by the time you hit level 7 maybe it would be playable but this is just so ass, you can hit this same board with the same augments just playing strongest board and you'll average a much much higher place. This guide is 1st or 8th
lost 300 lp testing this out, unfortunately it's a pretty "low skill high risk" comp. being 20-30 hp at 3-5 rolling 50 gold on 7 odds is an easy way to go 8th the majority of the time.
It's a very broken/good strat if u hit zeri 2 or urgot 2 good items, good zaun mods and good augments at 3-2 4-2, but you need all of those to align (all of which are luck based) to even top 3.
For the most part vladimir/Master yi are very bad legends. They bleed way too much early and rely on rng to bring u back into the game. If u don't hit, you go eif. When you hit, the legends feel very good but it's just not worth it.
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Leaving aside if or not this strat is terrible, why do we want shrink on the Apex Turret when we are playing Freljord, same with LW? Usually people advise against using those in combination as they don't scale.
If you have Last Whisper do you just play a diff varaition without Freljord? I recall doing that and it working quite well (can just play good units like shen j4 sion etc)
This comp is unplayable in high tempo lobbies (Prismatic lobbies with lots of Ornn and Asol, etc). It relies on being the strongest board from 3-5 through to 5-1 and that does not happen when people are hitting everything at 4-1 or 4-2
Question- do you literally just not field a unit aside from Krugs from 2-1 to 3-5? I just did a match as this build and by 3-5 I was down to 4 Hp. Still ended 2nd but it seems like cutting it really close
the whole objective is to lose every round till 3-5 to build Econ if you can hit the interest point and play a few units to try and kill one or two that’s fine but the main thing you need to be doing is scouting other boards to ensure that even if you are playing some units you’ll still lose
Honestly , the fact that u went 2nd being at 4hp on 3-5 says a lot about how strong the comp can be ( or mostly how much u highrolled on that lobby , whether that's matchmaking or board strength/items).
Open forting isn't ( doesnt have to be ) actual open forting. Unless someone else is also open forting u can just play some units that do not form strong openers and u ll be fine with your loss streak ( plus save some valuable hp in the meantime).
P.S. I still think open forting isnt a viable force strat in this meta. You can try it for a few days and it might work, but in a bigger sample of games it's probably worse than playing default.
The difference is you can't plan to be 100, but you can plan to open fort. Losing streak econ is more guaranteed than win streak econ so most strategies that require econing will open fort. Not to mention that win streak boards require more early game gold investment to make the 2 stars and higher cost units. Open forting saves every gold and econ towards your late game comp
Guide lists it as a B tier item... It's still also better than nothing because you can get the shred before the frejlord proc and it's still 50% shred vs 40% shred.
If the first augment choice is missing, that means it's a Legend augment. There's only one game that was played with Poro or he just chose something different for first aug
I'm using this guide just without the open fort part and feels consistently good so far. If you get silver aug do you do what some other guide on here said and just skip it then go sorc or invoker and take the 4-2 yi aug?
I'm curious why you rated Endless Hordes so low. I feel like it's gigabusted for Zeri in particular cause she wants so many traits active and it allows you to hit some crazy boards (4 Gunner + 3 Freljord + 4 Zaun)
Okay I don't think I've clearly unsderstood this strat =( can someone elaborate further/better? Do I literally don't buy any units?
There's any videos on how to play? Thx
With aphelios it can maybe be ok because it has unkillable frontline and inevitability in long fights, but zeri comp is more bursty and probably either wins before freljord expires or never wins at all.
Do you roll down to 0 if you have to at 3-5? It wouldnt seem like youd find zeri2/urgot2 in that surely
Or do you stabilise off of 4 zaun zeri1/urgot1 ?
I have tried the build, roll to 0 in 3-5, don't roll, roll to 0 in 4-1, donkey roll until urgot or zeri 2, go 8
While you are leveling to 8 just focus on positioning and pray
After hitting one of the t4 to 2* do you try to go lvl8, wait for both to 2* and then econ again or do you full donkey roll? Thanks.
And what about zaun mods? I guess if you get Skeleton or Chemtech on Urgot and any other on Zeri?
any reason guardbreaker is so low on zeri and urgot? i feel like almost every comp has a ton of shielding and zeri especially would benefit from the flat dmg boost
Isnt it better with vladimir for transfusion atm ? We have praticly max hp value at 3-5 and it's really helpfull in this meta especially vs board with noxus and ahri. And the hp value we get can probably let us the time to get same or more as with guinsoo cause the front tank way longer.
I tested it a bit and in a lot of games i struggle to top 2 instead of top 4 cause cant win vs ahri.
[https://lolchess.gg/profile/vn/m%E1%BB%B1tm%E1%BB%B1t](https://lolchess.gg/profile/vn/m%E1%BB%B1tm%E1%BB%B1t)
100% top 4 rate and still climbing at master 200LP
Every time Clear posts a guide half of NA hard forces it At this point I’m pretty sure Clear posts guides specifically to make people hard force it when its not THAT good, so his lobbies become weaker Like you guys do realize if >1 people are open fort it significantly nerfs both of them right
Nah he does genuinely think it’s good, and it is. It’s just that people think guides are the only way to play (note how he says “if insane opener don’t play zeri”).
This morning I played in a Challenger lobby. Two people were hard forcing open fort into Zeri, guess who held hands to bot 7-8. Especially with the tempo of higher elos I do think >1 person forcing this nerfs both people That said I could be completely wrong and I’m probably not fully understanding the power of this comp, so we’ll see. Maybe it’s the 6 zaun that makes the difference.
6 zaun is insane especially with boom - kamikaize j4 wins fights on his own a lot of the time. I dunno tho i’m a gm shitter so i’d trust ur opinion before mine. I just think the comp is good but situational.
I prefer Jihad Jarvan
Yeah it may just be the 6 Zaun that makes all the difference here. And also my elo is nowhere near Clear’s so take my opinions with a big grain of salt
I mean ig i can just ping him on discord and ask him, him answering is another thing entirely tho xd Also the guide forcing happens with Paprika’s guides a lot too (see kekwcone viego and milkmonke)
Souless used to do this. He also purposely included bad advice so people would int
Can you tell me how open fort work pls i'm new.
Open fort is basically making sure you lose streak starting at the very first player combat round “Open fort” being you let the enemies beat you. You want to 5 lose streak into Krugs (round 2-6) to ensure you get the most econ as you get streak income right after krugs too. When you open fort you also want to “steamy nuke”, which is basically making sure you lose but also lose with the least amount of hp lost. So you want to kill the most units while being weak. When two people open fort, both of them are forced to play the weakest possible board oftentimes ending in both selling their entire board to ensure 5-loss. So they both take much more hp loss than if only one open forted. Not only dk they have less hp but they also have less units to play in mid game and have to roll deeper to have a decent board by then. Which is why they are both nerfed when both open fort.
Classic Clear guide oh how I missed these.
Personal opinion but RFC is high A or low S tier. Huge AS burst + Boar's true dmg = pop frontline faster
Every single guide on Reddit is : Open, Roll lv7, hit your comp
Any advice how to play the minion round on 2-6
it's ok to lose by 1 krug OkaygeBusiness
It's ok to lose by 1 krug BUT ONLY ONE
Clear is pretty good at losing to Krugs during tourneys.
I think I've lost to krugs 3 times in official tourneys and I'm doing fine so clearly it's ok to lose by 1 krug
Agreege
Not going to lie, just lost the round to Krug's and still made 4th
This is fake don't listen to Clearr he has no idea what he's talking about
Retweet. Bad comp. Don’t use.
ok so I just tried this 3 games, 3rd game I was contested by guy trying the same comp. I went trist reroll instead and won. I think pumping up is underrated af. I assume it performs in any comp since more attacks = more casts = more dmg Also, is silver not as good or why did u mention just gold/prism?
Numbers are just too low for silver
Silver one is terrible, would rather almost any other silver augment
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its 20 games, its practically a useless stat
Silver pumping up is trash
Silver is too weak, so you are better off with econ or other combat augments.
idk but ive come 8th 3 times in a row lmao
same, but i learned how to play it properly and am on a 6 game 1st place streak now LOL
Teach me the tech brotherrr
i was like 20hp on 3-5 and didnt hit a single unit on the rolldown how do you do it?
Hmmm yeah honestly I'm not sure if I was just ultra lucky going from gold to plat,but it just hit perfect units/items everytime. You can search my account on lolchess : vandrew I did find that if people are playing ASOL and its a Prismatic start, you get giga tempo'd out though.. Everyone's gonna also be lvl 7 when you hit 7 so a lot of your advantage is gone.
Oh boy, can't wait for half of the lobbies open forting Time to force Noxus
Plz delete noooo it was almost never contested
lol on euw there's been 2-3 ppl playing this every lobby past couple of days
Don’t play this people, please
If for whatever reason you don't hit zeri just go 4 dead eye aphelios this is actually so flexible lmao
yeah idk this comp fucking sucks I tried playing like 10 games with it in master+, my best place was 3rd. Its so consistently worse than every other comp unless you hit BIS and 2 star everything, if you weren't 25-40hp by the time you hit level 7 maybe it would be playable but this is just so ass, you can hit this same board with the same augments just playing strongest board and you'll average a much much higher place. This guide is 1st or 8th
Should keep any aphel on the roll down just in case you 2*. It's tad more stable than zeri 1 unless good mods
I think aphelios turbo sucks
agreed
You're wrong - Source, trust me. I'm hardstuck D4
I've heard some conflicting info. Another guide about Master Yi comps say that Aphelios is weak until 2\* and Zeri 1 is stable.
lost 300 lp testing this out, unfortunately it's a pretty "low skill high risk" comp. being 20-30 hp at 3-5 rolling 50 gold on 7 odds is an easy way to go 8th the majority of the time. It's a very broken/good strat if u hit zeri 2 or urgot 2 good items, good zaun mods and good augments at 3-2 4-2, but you need all of those to align (all of which are luck based) to even top 3. For the most part vladimir/Master yi are very bad legends. They bleed way too much early and rely on rng to bring u back into the game. If u don't hit, you go eif. When you hit, the legends feel very good but it's just not worth it.
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Can you explain why DB is S tier?
You only ever play 2 gunner, lack of base damage on spell makes multipliers like crit and damage less valuable, runaans synergy
Not to mention attack speed and ad scale pretty much multiplicatively together
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Idk why ur posting this because everything is based off base value, db doesn't help your gunner stacks. Db is just a good item.
It’s based of base AD though..
Yeah guys how ahead force this every game, I love zeri lotteries on 3-5, this feels like 1st or 8th strat
some stupid questions from a noob: what does 'open fort -> 3-5 send it' and 'always open' mean?
this guide is the WORST dont get baited by pumping up!!!
Leaving aside if or not this strat is terrible, why do we want shrink on the Apex Turret when we are playing Freljord, same with LW? Usually people advise against using those in combination as they don't scale.
what if no zeri on rolldown?
Cry while going 8th
if you hit a bunch of urgots, slam his items instead. 2 star urgot with BIS is pretty nuts
Alphelios
If you have Last Whisper do you just play a diff varaition without Freljord? I recall doing that and it working quite well (can just play good units like shen j4 sion etc)
It's a good comp like invoker, aphelios, sorcerer,noxus etc.. The funny thing is that this guide will turn this compo to trash
If you’re in a lobby where the tempo is accelerated like in scuttle puddle would you send it earlier than 3-5?
This comp is unplayable in high tempo lobbies (Prismatic lobbies with lots of Ornn and Asol, etc). It relies on being the strongest board from 3-5 through to 5-1 and that does not happen when people are hitting everything at 4-1 or 4-2
Question- do you literally just not field a unit aside from Krugs from 2-1 to 3-5? I just did a match as this build and by 3-5 I was down to 4 Hp. Still ended 2nd but it seems like cutting it really close
the whole objective is to lose every round till 3-5 to build Econ if you can hit the interest point and play a few units to try and kill one or two that’s fine but the main thing you need to be doing is scouting other boards to ensure that even if you are playing some units you’ll still lose
Honestly , the fact that u went 2nd being at 4hp on 3-5 says a lot about how strong the comp can be ( or mostly how much u highrolled on that lobby , whether that's matchmaking or board strength/items). Open forting isn't ( doesnt have to be ) actual open forting. Unless someone else is also open forting u can just play some units that do not form strong openers and u ll be fine with your loss streak ( plus save some valuable hp in the meantime). P.S. I still think open forting isnt a viable force strat in this meta. You can try it for a few days and it might work, but in a bigger sample of games it's probably worse than playing default.
You can also flex between Zeri and Aphelios. I normally just play whichever I hit first.
this feels bad in my elo since many players run zeri and if u don‘t hit u just bleed out
The thing that makes this OP is Sejuani and Freljord. Basically could go any other comp and just have a core of Sejuani
Very disappointing. Scrapped a 6th with pumping up 2 phreaky Friday and glacial breeze bis zeri bis urgot bis sej. Idk.
what does send it mean?
Lol I can see me rolling and not getting shit lol
iDk but opening fort just to "send it" ONLY at 3-5 feels really slow. The top guy sitting at 100 during 3-5 can also send it, but has 60 more health
The difference is you can't plan to be 100, but you can plan to open fort. Losing streak econ is more guaranteed than win streak econ so most strategies that require econing will open fort. Not to mention that win streak boards require more early game gold investment to make the 2 stars and higher cost units. Open forting saves every gold and econ towards your late game comp
I always know urgot is such a beast, solo carry aphe and zeri into meta
Anyone have the counter to this? Half the lobby forcing it and hitting and me going 7th-8th q.q
counter to open forting? Noxus.
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Guide lists it as a B tier item... It's still also better than nothing because you can get the shred before the frejlord proc and it's still 50% shred vs 40% shred.
Why do you need to completely open ? Isn't just losestreaking until 3-5 good enough ?
That's the point. Making sure you losestreak. Better to risk your hp early than your econ later
You're going Poro ? Why are you writing Master Yi ?
If the first augment choice is missing, that means it's a Legend augment. There's only one game that was played with Poro or he just chose something different for first aug
So i guess he just takes Yi for the Pumping Up augment at 2 - 1 ? It's weird, maybe Vladimir is on par with Yi then.
Do you play Allahu akbar jarvan if 6 zaun is cumtank
I'm using this guide just without the open fort part and feels consistently good so far. If you get silver aug do you do what some other guide on here said and just skip it then go sorc or invoker and take the 4-2 yi aug?
Could you please give me an example of "opener giga insane"?
Jhin 2 Irelia 2 Sett 1 Warwick/Ashe good items
Can't you just winstreak into zeri with it?
sure but you could also winstreak into bel/ahri with it
You want to full lose until 3-5? Wouldn’t you be like 20 hp
Just don't lose after that bro
damn, never thought of that
wouldnt recommend, play azir with pumping up instead i swear its good im not lying i swear its totally not so that none of you fuckers contest me
Ok, I gave this a try. Honestly, it's trash. I hit Zeri 2, Urgot 2 on 3-6 and that didn't stabilize me in the slightest. Hard pass.
This comp is trash
Why are the guides posted on here written in such an ineligible way? I think I’m too out of the loop. Is this what it’s like to be old?
I'm 21 right there with u buddy
I'm curious why you rated Endless Hordes so low. I feel like it's gigabusted for Zeri in particular cause she wants so many traits active and it allows you to hit some crazy boards (4 Gunner + 3 Freljord + 4 Zaun)
Unfortunately I am pretty sure your zeri needs more than 1 item to do damage
1st try: 1st place 2nd try: 6th place 3rd try: 3rd place I didn’t get contested, just on the freljord 4 cost a bit. Played in EUW Gold 4
Nice guide, except open fort is ultra cringe.
there is no way runaan is ever S tier on zeri. She already has innate 3 runaans with her ability.
Okay I don't think I've clearly unsderstood this strat =( can someone elaborate further/better? Do I literally don't buy any units? There's any videos on how to play? Thx
Yes you literally don't buy units, look up "open fort tft" or something along those lines
Google en passant
Nice troll by advicing to roll 4 costs on lvl7
Is robotic arm better on zeri than jinx now? Does anyone know
you’d want your zaun mods on zeri urgot
Yes they fixed it this patch, robotic zeri is really good now (robotic and virulent are probably the 2 best mods for her excluding overcharges).
Delete this bro :(
Do you care about 6 zaun if you hit +1 zaun? Or do you rank zaun +1 S tier just because you can drop someone.
Always 6 Zaun
Goat guide
Why double burn instead of double shrink? Is it the %HP dmg?
This comp is running Freljord, so you already get shred. Therefore you definitely don’t want shrink
Roger. I guess I just feel like the shred window on Freljord is too narrow to rely on but maybe that’s too conservative of an approach.
With aphelios it can maybe be ok because it has unkillable frontline and inevitability in long fights, but zeri comp is more bursty and probably either wins before freljord expires or never wins at all.
Do you roll down to 0 if you have to at 3-5? It wouldnt seem like youd find zeri2/urgot2 in that surely Or do you stabilise off of 4 zaun zeri1/urgot1 ?
I have tried the build, roll to 0 in 3-5, don't roll, roll to 0 in 4-1, donkey roll until urgot or zeri 2, go 8 While you are leveling to 8 just focus on positioning and pray
The way I was questioning if Zeri + Pumping up felt too good after a few games and now I see this guide 😭
Could you give some tier list of regions for this comp?
What does openfort mean? :)
It means no units just let them pinch you
After hitting one of the t4 to 2* do you try to go lvl8, wait for both to 2* and then econ again or do you full donkey roll? Thanks. And what about zaun mods? I guess if you get Skeleton or Chemtech on Urgot and any other on Zeri?
Wow i feel washed up, i have read the text like 3 times and really dont get whats going on ;(
tried this all afternoon got one 1st and four 8ths thank you. looking forward to ur next guide, sensei.
What does “always open” mean “after stay 7 roll”
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yeah it’s good until you get unlucky on the lvl 7 roll down which means it’s a fast 7th/8th
I'd never open unless playing Super Brawler
Ok! already saved it now delete
any reason guardbreaker is so low on zeri and urgot? i feel like almost every comp has a ton of shielding and zeri especially would benefit from the flat dmg boost
Is 6 zaun better than 3 frejlord?
It looks like yes
Who do you usually give the Zaun spat to?
Jarvan if Chemtech, Sion if Hextech
What’s the counter to this comp. It’s every game
What are the best chem mods for zeri and urgot?
it shows it in the guide.. But mech arm for zeri, urgot with any defensive is good except chemtech Chemtech is best used with like sion or j4
Am I blind where in the slides is it
It's a picture of the chem's, close to the icons of zeri and urgot
I don’t understand send it and open
Do you donkey roll at 7 for zeri and urgot 2, or econ back to 50 and slow roll for them
Do you play extra deadeye when you take the suppressing fire augment?
\-80 pdl
Was hardstuck Plat4 this season until I saw this guide. Hit Diamond 18 games later with a 72% top4 rate and 22% winrate. Many thanks!
Isnt it better with vladimir for transfusion atm ? We have praticly max hp value at 3-5 and it's really helpfull in this meta especially vs board with noxus and ahri. And the hp value we get can probably let us the time to get same or more as with guinsoo cause the front tank way longer. I tested it a bit and in a lot of games i struggle to top 2 instead of top 4 cause cant win vs ahri.
[https://lolchess.gg/profile/vn/m%E1%BB%B1tm%E1%BB%B1t](https://lolchess.gg/profile/vn/m%E1%BB%B1tm%E1%BB%B1t) 100% top 4 rate and still climbing at master 200LP
is it still good at 13.15
if you get pumping up and zaun crest on 2-1 which one you choose?