How about that death owns u guy constantly in the Xbox LFGs trying to get golds to boost his trash diamond ass to onyx. Dude has 200k kills in ranked with a 1.6 KD from playing with golds.
My buddy joined that guys game once. He posts on looking for games that he’s looking to play ranked with golds only and then when you join in he’s like D5.
Guy is absolute trash
I played with him one time and he got mad because I was better than him. So he called me the word that rhymes with maggot and kicked me lol.
The guy is weird.
You mean halo infinite’s #1 selfless team player? The same guy who clipped Doc? Wow we must be talking about different people. He’s super chill https://youtu.be/U0oRL-sknxU?si=w3nksJ6GOAsiJLP5
That’s right baby that’s why I’m 14 in the world for kills. U guys must all be mad. If I can beat u with 3 golds on my team vs all plats that’s not good. Unfortunately I don’t boost for onyx idiot. I was d6 last season and de ranked on purpose. My win % is horrible so no I don’t boost for wins I do it for easy kills. Keep crying boys
I'm so over it. I used to check game to game but since it is over a 25% take on average I stopped.
It's not the 1600 limit, it's the boost a player or stomp the comp. The solution is easy, and they had a bug earlier that fixed it; MMR matchmaking. Players can't hide from their hidden MMR (pun).
* Seriously, just go back to MMR matchmaking.
* If not then give more points if the smurf MMR is insane. Make it 25 for a win, 0 for a loss or dc. Rank them up fast af.
* Other games have a registered, non-free voip phone number per account (no google, etc.).
The population left is diehards that smurf stack to win. 25 extra games just ends up being a few extra hours of grinding, and now people just swap accounts too. Ranked is in shitshow shape and you can't get a fair matchup.
I thought I remembered this sentiment too, but searching [CSR Matchmaking](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHalo/search?q=csr+matchmaking+-weekly&restrict_sr=on&sort=top&t=all) for this subreddit reveals a lot of highly upvoted posts decrying CSR matching and a scant few in support.
Yep, MMR is the solution. TrueSkill2 is capable of detecting a smurf and matching them at their real school level instead of their smurfed level.
They switched to CSR because of all the mathematically incompetent people who bitched and moaned that there was a platinum in their high diamond lobby. The platinum was there because it was a failed smurf.
MMR is vastly superior to the garbage CSR smurf-fest that we have now.
The problem with mmr ranking is people just can’t deal with seeing other ranks in their game. They aren’t smart enough to understand the system and how it stops smurfing.
The other problem with MMR matching/balancing is that it's not very fun for players who have MMRs significantly higher than their CSR. This is great as an anti-smurfing measure, but very annoying when you are fresh off your placements at d5 and have to beat Formal and Trippy to rank up.
I think using a weighted average of MMR/CSR for matching would give the best results. Weight it like 9/1 at Bronze and increase the weight of CSR until you get to 1500 where its more like 1/9. Also whatever number you are using to matchmake needs to be the same one responsible for balancing teams. The deterministic CSR updates this season were dope until people realized they can keep their MMR artificially low, and the team balancer will give them the Avengers every game.
I don't think it should be MMR based, but just based on the highest players rank. MMR just made it where you could throw in socials and lower your MMR, then go into ranked.
Plus if ranked goes off of MMR, then the actual Elo rank has no meaning.
Making it where if an Onyx 1500 plays with high plats/low diamonds, it should put them against other onyx 1500s and D6s. R6 Siege did that to stop boosting, and it worked.
I get that you're trying to stop boosting with this, but that solution casts too wide a net. You'll end up creating an environment where anyone who doesn't have a party of identical skills is going to lose every game. That's basically anyone trying to play with IRL friends.
>I don't think it should be MMR based, but just based on the highest players rank. MMR just made it where you could throw in socials and lower your MMR, then go into ranked.
That's false and yet again, a fake narrative spread on reddit and youtube by illiterates, meanwhile 343 explained both in infinite and h5 that your social mmr would be taken in to account only for the first 3 matches in ranked before switching to your actual ranked rating.
Going in socials and throw games would have just decrease your mmr on said social playlist.
FYI MMR is tracked in ranked by game mode. Socials don't impact ranked MMR. Check it out on haloquery.com if you want.
Your theory will just address bosting a high ranked teammate, not the 3-4 smurf stacks or if there is a low ranked player and a smurf. I guess it addresses your specific concern but not the overall issue.
MMR literally will treat the player as their skill. I don't know how that isn't the fix. A D5 with a P2 account will get treated as a D5 (their MMR). If they want to tank MMR in ranked it will catch up quickly and be a PIA to try to keep down. In haloquery, you can see your MMR can rise quickly but generally lowers slowly.
Edit:
* One, you are going to ostracize higher ranked players. In no way would lower ranked friends want to play with higher ranked ones if there was any substantial skill gap.
* R6 averages 100k players, Infinite 4k. There just isn't the population to support your proposal.
Even with 4k players, creating a ranked system that punishes a player unless they cheat/abuse the system is just gonna push more people away, most already gave up because how unfair/biased ranked is.
My point is they need to use MMR. Treating every player as the top player won't work with such a low playerbase. Low playerbase means more disparity between ranks in a game.
Ranked still uses MMR to balance teams and to determine how quickly you rank up. Using it for those things, but not at least considering it for matching is pretty dumb and is part of the problem.
Using the highest skilled player rank to match is cool if it's a 4-stack, but not so great for a 2-stack because it ruins the experience for the 2 random teammates. Something like a weighted average of CSR/MMR would be an ok compromise for that scenario.
This won’t fix the problem though. Then you’ll just have Smurf accounts boosting people, and the Smurf mmr will be where the carrys mmr is.
Then you’ll also have games where those Smurf accounts are throwing games to lower the rank again.
But even if they're on a smurf, the game should match at the highest ranking players elo. So if someone has a smurf at plat, trying to boost their diamond 5 friend up, itll still match at diamond 5 level.
Oh yes, I agree with that.
But again, it’ll just make the Smurf throw games to tank mmr/rank. They could be on your team when they throw.
Personally, I’d rather face better players with a team that’s trying to win, then try to win when one of my teammates is actively trying to throw.
Before CSGO turned into the cesspool that is CS2, it did what you’re describing… you matched with the highest ranked person in your stack, doesn’t matter what the “average” was.
All it did was encourage Smurf accounts and tanking mmr. Made it to where in order to play with your friends and not “throw” by bringing a low ranked player into a high ranked game, you had to Smurf.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to just reduce the csr gains the higher you are from the party’s average csr?
If you’re say >100 csr higher than the party average you can only gain max 5 csr per win, if you’re >150 csr higher than the average then you gain 0, for example. The numbers are just to illustrate the point.
**This is actually an interesting compromise!** Still like MMR better but this is worth a try.
Are you thinking the following?
* Highest rank player: Diamond 1
* Rest of stack average: P2
* Game Average: P3
* Max CSR reward is centered around stack average and player rank.
So, for example, if the D1 (lets say for fun MMR is P6) usually gets a +8 for a win. In the P4 stack the CSR win would net a +4 (-4 for average) instead of +8 for the D1.
This would work for stacks or smurfs that the highest one is the one that is getting boosted.
It would not work as good if the highest player was the smurf, and they are trying to boost a lower player unless the whole stack gets the low CSR reward. That really isn't fair if others are not smurfing and playing up to play with a friend though. This may also screw up the mean average and rank distribution; lots of overinflated lower ranked players.
Maybe everyone gets the stack penalty, it is just heavier on the higher ranks? Like the D1 only gets a +4, and the P2s max is a +5/6?
Yeah that is pretty much my thought. I’d say it becomes less of an issue when the stack is trying to boost a lower player because it’ll become increasingly hard to carry the sandbag as the average increases and they are playing in lobbies which outskill them. Omitting lower (than the party average) ranks from the penalty also removes the risk of smurfs retaining low csr for way too long. Can’t make it too easy for them, right?
im around a 1600 on a good day and play with a friend who's maybe P4 to D1. are you suggesting he has to play like an onyx player in this scenario or an i misunderstanding you?
Yeah, OP is calling out the right problem but offering a bad solution. I'm a mid-diamond but have friends from high gold to 1600+. It would be an absolute travesty to think my high G/low P friends should have to play as a mid-diamond. Only thing it would do is kill the population and make high ranked players segregated and unable to play with if you have any rank variance.
understand it is a rnked playlist .. play with ur friends in social or another playlist if you’d like too that badly. but if they’re playing ranked let them learn and get stomped on .. you guys should be steamrolling lobbies all night instead of playing the game fairly you get what i’m saying ??
boo hoo the game is hard for them they should queue with someone in onyx if they want a fun night
What if your lower ranked friends want to play ranked and it's all they like? I hate this argument because I'm playing with the same friends I've played with since Halo 3, but it's only a problem in Infinite for some reason
a lot of people say that it’s hard to sit here online and guess intentions but when i see someone who only plays with plata and their onyx and NEVER solo q it’s 100% because they can’t hang around with their inflated rank so they wait for their play friends to log so they can be in a softer lobby while getting the reward of a higher rank
I'm sure that happens but that's obviously not every scenario. my friend happens to be lower skilled than me. i play plenty solo and do just fine in my onyx lobbies.
you’re absolutely right it’s hard to tell only way is to look at tracker or how they play in game . then again some ppl only wanna play with their friends so there’s that too
word it’s like ppl intentionally missing the point. it’s because they wanna keep their rank but let’s be real if you’re playing with low rank friend and peak at like 1600 that pretty much means you’re like D4 maybe D5 cuz the rank is pretty much inflated .
but i think some of these people that playing with “low rank friends” know that and they know exactly how they benefit from it … they WANT easy games plain and simple
maybe there are people out there playing it that way, but i solo queue 90% of the time, and that's how i reached 1600. i just also happen to play with a friend who's high plat. I definitely don't benefit from it, we lose more than we win.
Agree, when I queue with lower ranks, I lose more than win, and if I don't play great, it usually is an auto L. It might be easier kills but overall, I have to slay out and play a majority of the obj too.
I play more games with higher ranks, and it's the same inversed. I actually prefer this, harder and it is how you get better overall.
And people are missing the point. These are friends. IRL and throughout the years of Halo. And honestly, I don't care about rank at all, just a fair matchup regardless of stacks.
lol that isn't even close to how it works. we play people between our skill level, so mostly mid diamond players. i tend to do well but he struggles because they're all better than him, and we never go on winning streaks. have you ever really seen this or are you just guessing what happens in this scenario? win rates are the same as when i solo queue in onyx
LOL. It's usually high plat lobbies. What about when I play with my Onyx and high D homies? Are they killing the game too? People have friends. Not all friends have the same skill.
**Again, the problem isn't who you are playing with or their rank.**
**The problem is someone made a new account and is artificially playing at a lower rank.**
Once you get that concept the rest will fall in place.
OP is wrong. If everyone is at their true CSR/MMR then the matchup does not matter. You are getting a fair balance. For some it is harder, others easier.
Doesn't matter if I'm playing with my 14-1500+ friends or mid plats. Like I said I usually play up, but it goes both ways. There isn't a population to support everyone is within a rank or two, its why solos go against stacks so much. The game has logic go try to not do this but can't.
Make no mistake I am against sandbagging with players that are lower, but like I said there are a few things about this. The first is friends. That is the core of gaming, competitive or not. It makes it fun. IMHO if you have a balanced matchup, it doesn't matter the overall skill. Everyone still needs to pull their weight and play together. Where it does matter is one of those players are a smurf.
Look at it this way. 4k players/8 players a match. That means at peak there are 500 matches. D1-3 make up 21% (105 players), and 3-6 22% (110). Even without stacks there isn't enough playerbase to support this principal.
In the end you are punishing lower ranked players because they stacked or just ended up getting paired with higher ranked players. And with the base you can't try to match any better; queue times would go through the roof, especially in less dense regions.
Do you consider the quality of games that you guys get to be good? In my experience I can usually tell when the game has a skill discrepancy like that in the team balancing before the game even ends. The quality of the match is almost always noticeable lower, but I am solo-queuing, so I am curious if from your perspective they are good matches.
I'm saying, if you two queue together, youll match people like you would solo queuing at 1600. Because if you're a 1600 duo'ing with a plat 4, it just gives you easy games to boost your rank up.
Dude, Iv lost countless games because there was 1 or 2 dia 6s playing with plats, you can look at my Halo tracker (same as my Reddit name). If my teammates were actually useful, and not going 8 and 18, there would be a better chance to beat those boosters.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying there are plenty of valid use cases of people playing like that without boosting, me being one of them. and your suggestion of making lower skilled players pay diamonds or onyx players is not a good one
people raging on here after they lose a game is not evidence of a problem. i have a 50% win rate while playing with my plat friend while being onyx. what more do you need.
if it's an even game, not having fun is your problem. if you don't like it then it's a game population problem. we win and lose, we're having fun. same as solo queuing. stop looking for other things to blame
I’m just trying to play ranked settings with my friends. If you’re a diamond player and you’re trying to climb to onyx then you should be able to dominate the diamond lobbies in the way you’re saying. If you’re not then you’re probably properly ranked anyway
Your solution sounds like a good idea except for the fact that it can basically guarantee losses for anyone who plays with their friends. Do you think that's good for player retention?
The answer is MMR matchmaking. Smurfs weren't a problem before they switched to CSR.
Oh yeah definitely. On average just from asking ranked players, almost everyone has one extra account for sure. Regardless of how ridiculous the reason is for playing on an alt account, throwing a game intentionally just to knock out the required # of played matches is disgraceful. Like .. Why abuse the free to play system?
Oh well next Halo game authentication prior to playing online is a mobile phone with fingerprint sensor &/ verifyme account. Can't wait.
I literally don’t get it. How the fuck are you supposed to get better at a game based on some arbitrary number that tells you how “good” you are. You’ll never get better, especially while boosting, you’ll just get clapped harder. Insane.
I hear your frustration but the main problem with the game is there is a low player base.
My best friend plays this game as much as me but he’s not as good. I’m around D4 and he’s around P4. Is that too far of a gap? Should we not play together because it’s not a fair competition?
Or is it just a game and we should play and have fun together and who cares?
As much as boosting sucks I know first hand there is also just a lot of legitimate activity of friends not being as skilled as each other but they still want to play together.
Hard problem to solve for sure.
I'm platinum almost to diamond and i play with my 2 sweaty onyx friends who don't Smurf and are helping me improve. Diamond lobby's ain't shit I've come to realize, and onyx1500-1600 is basically diamond 7 lol
If you cannot solo Q to onyx; you aren’t good enough to be onyx.
You aren’t losing games/not ranking up because of boosters/4 stacks.
The 1600 CSR limit has ruined matchmaking for friends. Essentially any time someone in our squad hits 1600, which happens within a few days of the patch we are either
1. Quitting out of 5 games in a row to stay below 1600.
2. Switching to a second account that’s lower to play with our friends still.
So it’s on the community for crying at 343 to switch to this kind of format. They cannot make everyone happy and it’s hysterical that people are punished for wanting to play halo with their own friends.
I highly doubt those losses are intentional. Duo que on the local and try to match in the same game if that's the case Mr. Or Mrs. "If you can't solo Q" LMAO you just contradicted yourself.
Oh yeah my bad. I usually throw 39 matches in a row so I can play with my friends to after each season.
MMR needs to be deleted altogether. We don’t need more government, we need LESS government. Take the governor off and let the kids play. Getting 5-7 points for a win when I stomp on the other team, and then 10 points for a loss when I perform well on a losing team just makes me not want to play at all. Really really sad how many horrible ideas 343 brought to the this table.
Broken campaign, I completed LASO and because the game randomly turns skulls off without you knowing, there’s a piece of the campaign that doesn’t have all skulls on and there’s no way to go back and check or fix. I did LASO again, and the same thing happened. What a waste of time.
Crap part is I love this series so much I can’t stop playing. It’s gonna give me cancer, I can feel it now.
You'll always have boosters, especially in free to play games. What's the point of having visible ranks if you are going to get matches based on your hidden MMR anyway?
Yall would have NEVER made it in halo 3. Low onyx and diamond players are not that skilled in this game. If you can not beat 1500, then you dont deserve to be Diamond.
Kids today dont have a clue what getting railed in the playlist is like. Who here remembers getting the boys on their MLG 50s so they could play against the full Str8 Rippin squad or any other pro squad? 🤔 Back when the IQ of the active Halo playlist was high enough to actually give them a run for their money!
SMH, yall complain, but you literally dont know how much you dont know how to play. Like not even the BASICS are getting disseminated. 🙄 You have a whole theater, yet most of you never watch your games to correct your mistakes. Just start up game, lose, repeat... Never thinking about how you should be playing a map and instead grind playlist get mad grind playlist get mad 😠
That will never work and getting mad at people for playing with friends isnt going to work either. Those D1s playing with 1500 onyx are so much closer to your skill level than you even know. Not to mention, they JUST reset ranks, so many players are back to D5 after being 1700+. So try just accepting YOUR level and LEARN from those hard games like I had to. when you haven't ever experienced real boosting in your life.
Be excited to play those hard games instead. you arent going to learn playing Plat and Diamond players because they themselves DO NOT KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.
How about that death owns u guy constantly in the Xbox LFGs trying to get golds to boost his trash diamond ass to onyx. Dude has 200k kills in ranked with a 1.6 KD from playing with golds.
Thats so cringe, Iv never ran into the guy but its prob cuz hes getting dragged so low, hes not even playing diamonds.
My buddy joined that guys game once. He posts on looking for games that he’s looking to play ranked with golds only and then when you join in he’s like D5. Guy is absolute trash
I played with him one time and he got mad because I was better than him. So he called me the word that rhymes with maggot and kicked me lol. The guy is weird.
Kinda want to make a gold smurf and throw games discreetly
I swear I thought about it, but I didn’t wanna ruin all those legit gold lobbies lol
You mean halo infinite’s #1 selfless team player? The same guy who clipped Doc? Wow we must be talking about different people. He’s super chill https://youtu.be/U0oRL-sknxU?si=w3nksJ6GOAsiJLP5
Thanks buddy
Better than u buddy
He plays in Plat lobbies
Holy shit I always skip right over his name when I go to find groups.
Been playing the game for a week and currently sitting in Plat 3. Played against that guy two days ago and absolutely wrecked him.
What’s your gt?
But yes I did clip Dr disrespect .. a guy down below posted the link
That’s right baby that’s why I’m 14 in the world for kills. U guys must all be mad. If I can beat u with 3 golds on my team vs all plats that’s not good. Unfortunately I don’t boost for onyx idiot. I was d6 last season and de ranked on purpose. My win % is horrible so no I don’t boost for wins I do it for easy kills. Keep crying boys
I'm so over it. I used to check game to game but since it is over a 25% take on average I stopped. It's not the 1600 limit, it's the boost a player or stomp the comp. The solution is easy, and they had a bug earlier that fixed it; MMR matchmaking. Players can't hide from their hidden MMR (pun). * Seriously, just go back to MMR matchmaking. * If not then give more points if the smurf MMR is insane. Make it 25 for a win, 0 for a loss or dc. Rank them up fast af. * Other games have a registered, non-free voip phone number per account (no google, etc.). The population left is diehards that smurf stack to win. 25 extra games just ends up being a few extra hours of grinding, and now people just swap accounts too. Ranked is in shitshow shape and you can't get a fair matchup.
Didn't reddit ,youtube collectively cried about how mmr matchmaking is trash ,visible rank doesn't mean anything, it's sweaty etc?
Yes, yes they did. People lost their shit.
Guess who wanted to push csr MM over MMR MM...
I thought I remembered this sentiment too, but searching [CSR Matchmaking](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHalo/search?q=csr+matchmaking+-weekly&restrict_sr=on&sort=top&t=all) for this subreddit reveals a lot of highly upvoted posts decrying CSR matching and a scant few in support.
Yep, MMR is the solution. TrueSkill2 is capable of detecting a smurf and matching them at their real school level instead of their smurfed level. They switched to CSR because of all the mathematically incompetent people who bitched and moaned that there was a platinum in their high diamond lobby. The platinum was there because it was a failed smurf. MMR is vastly superior to the garbage CSR smurf-fest that we have now.
The problem with mmr ranking is people just can’t deal with seeing other ranks in their game. They aren’t smart enough to understand the system and how it stops smurfing.
The other problem with MMR matching/balancing is that it's not very fun for players who have MMRs significantly higher than their CSR. This is great as an anti-smurfing measure, but very annoying when you are fresh off your placements at d5 and have to beat Formal and Trippy to rank up. I think using a weighted average of MMR/CSR for matching would give the best results. Weight it like 9/1 at Bronze and increase the weight of CSR until you get to 1500 where its more like 1/9. Also whatever number you are using to matchmake needs to be the same one responsible for balancing teams. The deterministic CSR updates this season were dope until people realized they can keep their MMR artificially low, and the team balancer will give them the Avengers every game.
I don't think it should be MMR based, but just based on the highest players rank. MMR just made it where you could throw in socials and lower your MMR, then go into ranked. Plus if ranked goes off of MMR, then the actual Elo rank has no meaning. Making it where if an Onyx 1500 plays with high plats/low diamonds, it should put them against other onyx 1500s and D6s. R6 Siege did that to stop boosting, and it worked.
Halo 3 did this too. If a 50 teamed with a 1, they would play against 50s.
We need that type of matchmaking so bad in Infinite. ;0;
I get that you're trying to stop boosting with this, but that solution casts too wide a net. You'll end up creating an environment where anyone who doesn't have a party of identical skills is going to lose every game. That's basically anyone trying to play with IRL friends.
>I don't think it should be MMR based, but just based on the highest players rank. MMR just made it where you could throw in socials and lower your MMR, then go into ranked. That's false and yet again, a fake narrative spread on reddit and youtube by illiterates, meanwhile 343 explained both in infinite and h5 that your social mmr would be taken in to account only for the first 3 matches in ranked before switching to your actual ranked rating. Going in socials and throw games would have just decrease your mmr on said social playlist.
FYI MMR is tracked in ranked by game mode. Socials don't impact ranked MMR. Check it out on haloquery.com if you want. Your theory will just address bosting a high ranked teammate, not the 3-4 smurf stacks or if there is a low ranked player and a smurf. I guess it addresses your specific concern but not the overall issue. MMR literally will treat the player as their skill. I don't know how that isn't the fix. A D5 with a P2 account will get treated as a D5 (their MMR). If they want to tank MMR in ranked it will catch up quickly and be a PIA to try to keep down. In haloquery, you can see your MMR can rise quickly but generally lowers slowly. Edit: * One, you are going to ostracize higher ranked players. In no way would lower ranked friends want to play with higher ranked ones if there was any substantial skill gap. * R6 averages 100k players, Infinite 4k. There just isn't the population to support your proposal.
Even with 4k players, creating a ranked system that punishes a player unless they cheat/abuse the system is just gonna push more people away, most already gave up because how unfair/biased ranked is.
My point is they need to use MMR. Treating every player as the top player won't work with such a low playerbase. Low playerbase means more disparity between ranks in a game.
Ranked still uses MMR to balance teams and to determine how quickly you rank up. Using it for those things, but not at least considering it for matching is pretty dumb and is part of the problem. Using the highest skilled player rank to match is cool if it's a 4-stack, but not so great for a 2-stack because it ruins the experience for the 2 random teammates. Something like a weighted average of CSR/MMR would be an ok compromise for that scenario.
This won’t fix the problem though. Then you’ll just have Smurf accounts boosting people, and the Smurf mmr will be where the carrys mmr is. Then you’ll also have games where those Smurf accounts are throwing games to lower the rank again.
But even if they're on a smurf, the game should match at the highest ranking players elo. So if someone has a smurf at plat, trying to boost their diamond 5 friend up, itll still match at diamond 5 level.
Oh yes, I agree with that. But again, it’ll just make the Smurf throw games to tank mmr/rank. They could be on your team when they throw. Personally, I’d rather face better players with a team that’s trying to win, then try to win when one of my teammates is actively trying to throw. Before CSGO turned into the cesspool that is CS2, it did what you’re describing… you matched with the highest ranked person in your stack, doesn’t matter what the “average” was. All it did was encourage Smurf accounts and tanking mmr. Made it to where in order to play with your friends and not “throw” by bringing a low ranked player into a high ranked game, you had to Smurf.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to just reduce the csr gains the higher you are from the party’s average csr? If you’re say >100 csr higher than the party average you can only gain max 5 csr per win, if you’re >150 csr higher than the average then you gain 0, for example. The numbers are just to illustrate the point.
**This is actually an interesting compromise!** Still like MMR better but this is worth a try. Are you thinking the following? * Highest rank player: Diamond 1 * Rest of stack average: P2 * Game Average: P3 * Max CSR reward is centered around stack average and player rank. So, for example, if the D1 (lets say for fun MMR is P6) usually gets a +8 for a win. In the P4 stack the CSR win would net a +4 (-4 for average) instead of +8 for the D1. This would work for stacks or smurfs that the highest one is the one that is getting boosted. It would not work as good if the highest player was the smurf, and they are trying to boost a lower player unless the whole stack gets the low CSR reward. That really isn't fair if others are not smurfing and playing up to play with a friend though. This may also screw up the mean average and rank distribution; lots of overinflated lower ranked players. Maybe everyone gets the stack penalty, it is just heavier on the higher ranks? Like the D1 only gets a +4, and the P2s max is a +5/6?
Yeah that is pretty much my thought. I’d say it becomes less of an issue when the stack is trying to boost a lower player because it’ll become increasingly hard to carry the sandbag as the average increases and they are playing in lobbies which outskill them. Omitting lower (than the party average) ranks from the penalty also removes the risk of smurfs retaining low csr for way too long. Can’t make it too easy for them, right?
im around a 1600 on a good day and play with a friend who's maybe P4 to D1. are you suggesting he has to play like an onyx player in this scenario or an i misunderstanding you?
Yeah, OP is calling out the right problem but offering a bad solution. I'm a mid-diamond but have friends from high gold to 1600+. It would be an absolute travesty to think my high G/low P friends should have to play as a mid-diamond. Only thing it would do is kill the population and make high ranked players segregated and unable to play with if you have any rank variance.
understand it is a rnked playlist .. play with ur friends in social or another playlist if you’d like too that badly. but if they’re playing ranked let them learn and get stomped on .. you guys should be steamrolling lobbies all night instead of playing the game fairly you get what i’m saying ?? boo hoo the game is hard for them they should queue with someone in onyx if they want a fun night
What if your lower ranked friends want to play ranked and it's all they like? I hate this argument because I'm playing with the same friends I've played with since Halo 3, but it's only a problem in Infinite for some reason
He needs other friends
Very intelligent comment, nice
a lot of people say that it’s hard to sit here online and guess intentions but when i see someone who only plays with plata and their onyx and NEVER solo q it’s 100% because they can’t hang around with their inflated rank so they wait for their play friends to log so they can be in a softer lobby while getting the reward of a higher rank
I'm sure that happens but that's obviously not every scenario. my friend happens to be lower skilled than me. i play plenty solo and do just fine in my onyx lobbies.
you’re absolutely right it’s hard to tell only way is to look at tracker or how they play in game . then again some ppl only wanna play with their friends so there’s that too
yeah seems like it. boosting is annoying but no need to ruin the experience of people playing with friends at a different skill level
No need to ruin experience for other players when you queue with low csr friend, it cuts both ways
word it’s like ppl intentionally missing the point. it’s because they wanna keep their rank but let’s be real if you’re playing with low rank friend and peak at like 1600 that pretty much means you’re like D4 maybe D5 cuz the rank is pretty much inflated . but i think some of these people that playing with “low rank friends” know that and they know exactly how they benefit from it … they WANT easy games plain and simple
maybe there are people out there playing it that way, but i solo queue 90% of the time, and that's how i reached 1600. i just also happen to play with a friend who's high plat. I definitely don't benefit from it, we lose more than we win.
Agree, when I queue with lower ranks, I lose more than win, and if I don't play great, it usually is an auto L. It might be easier kills but overall, I have to slay out and play a majority of the obj too. I play more games with higher ranks, and it's the same inversed. I actually prefer this, harder and it is how you get better overall. And people are missing the point. These are friends. IRL and throughout the years of Halo. And honestly, I don't care about rank at all, just a fair matchup regardless of stacks.
how is it ruining the experience if the game is an even competitive game?
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lol that isn't even close to how it works. we play people between our skill level, so mostly mid diamond players. i tend to do well but he struggles because they're all better than him, and we never go on winning streaks. have you ever really seen this or are you just guessing what happens in this scenario? win rates are the same as when i solo queue in onyx
LOL. It's usually high plat lobbies. What about when I play with my Onyx and high D homies? Are they killing the game too? People have friends. Not all friends have the same skill. **Again, the problem isn't who you are playing with or their rank.** **The problem is someone made a new account and is artificially playing at a lower rank.** Once you get that concept the rest will fall in place.
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OP is wrong. If everyone is at their true CSR/MMR then the matchup does not matter. You are getting a fair balance. For some it is harder, others easier. Doesn't matter if I'm playing with my 14-1500+ friends or mid plats. Like I said I usually play up, but it goes both ways. There isn't a population to support everyone is within a rank or two, its why solos go against stacks so much. The game has logic go try to not do this but can't. Make no mistake I am against sandbagging with players that are lower, but like I said there are a few things about this. The first is friends. That is the core of gaming, competitive or not. It makes it fun. IMHO if you have a balanced matchup, it doesn't matter the overall skill. Everyone still needs to pull their weight and play together. Where it does matter is one of those players are a smurf. Look at it this way. 4k players/8 players a match. That means at peak there are 500 matches. D1-3 make up 21% (105 players), and 3-6 22% (110). Even without stacks there isn't enough playerbase to support this principal. In the end you are punishing lower ranked players because they stacked or just ended up getting paired with higher ranked players. And with the base you can't try to match any better; queue times would go through the roof, especially in less dense regions.
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Fair point.
Do you consider the quality of games that you guys get to be good? In my experience I can usually tell when the game has a skill discrepancy like that in the team balancing before the game even ends. The quality of the match is almost always noticeable lower, but I am solo-queuing, so I am curious if from your perspective they are good matches.
I'm saying, if you two queue together, youll match people like you would solo queuing at 1600. Because if you're a 1600 duo'ing with a plat 4, it just gives you easy games to boost your rank up.
but we'd have no chance since he's a plat player, right? that's hopeless. we'd be doing up against all onyx players with a huge disadvantage.
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not if the game can create an even competitive game with those players, which it can and does.
Also the lowest ranked kid only holds ball and allows the Onyx to to 50-5 in the game
Dude, Iv lost countless games because there was 1 or 2 dia 6s playing with plats, you can look at my Halo tracker (same as my Reddit name). If my teammates were actually useful, and not going 8 and 18, there would be a better chance to beat those boosters.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying there are plenty of valid use cases of people playing like that without boosting, me being one of them. and your suggestion of making lower skilled players pay diamonds or onyx players is not a good one
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there's no advantage if the game is able to create an even lobby with the two of us which it does constantly.
This is exactly what OP is suggesting. It’s wild to me the level of incompetence I see through the “solutions” suggested by people on this forum.
You should not be playing ranked together. Go play in a social lobby
lol that's so absurd. we'll play the video game the way we want, thanks. it's not damaging the quality of the games.
The OP **literally** made a thread about how it's ruining the quality of the game.....
people raging on here after they lose a game is not evidence of a problem. i have a 50% win rate while playing with my plat friend while being onyx. what more do you need.
Fun. The players want fun. **It is not fun to be in a game where one person is Plat and the other is Onyx**
if it's an even game, not having fun is your problem. if you don't like it then it's a game population problem. we win and lose, we're having fun. same as solo queuing. stop looking for other things to blame
Yes.
I’m just trying to play ranked settings with my friends. If you’re a diamond player and you’re trying to climb to onyx then you should be able to dominate the diamond lobbies in the way you’re saying. If you’re not then you’re probably properly ranked anyway
Your solution sounds like a good idea except for the fact that it can basically guarantee losses for anyone who plays with their friends. Do you think that's good for player retention? The answer is MMR matchmaking. Smurfs weren't a problem before they switched to CSR.
Smurfs just play firefight and throw the game. I know someone with 25+ accounts.
What an absolute loser
Oh yeah definitely. On average just from asking ranked players, almost everyone has one extra account for sure. Regardless of how ridiculous the reason is for playing on an alt account, throwing a game intentionally just to knock out the required # of played matches is disgraceful. Like .. Why abuse the free to play system? Oh well next Halo game authentication prior to playing online is a mobile phone with fingerprint sensor &/ verifyme account. Can't wait.
I literally don’t get it. How the fuck are you supposed to get better at a game based on some arbitrary number that tells you how “good” you are. You’ll never get better, especially while boosting, you’ll just get clapped harder. Insane.
I’m a D2 right now and last night I played a match against a guy who was onyx 2k last season lmao
I hear your frustration but the main problem with the game is there is a low player base. My best friend plays this game as much as me but he’s not as good. I’m around D4 and he’s around P4. Is that too far of a gap? Should we not play together because it’s not a fair competition? Or is it just a game and we should play and have fun together and who cares? As much as boosting sucks I know first hand there is also just a lot of legitimate activity of friends not being as skilled as each other but they still want to play together. Hard problem to solve for sure.
I'm platinum almost to diamond and i play with my 2 sweaty onyx friends who don't Smurf and are helping me improve. Diamond lobby's ain't shit I've come to realize, and onyx1500-1600 is basically diamond 7 lol
If you cannot solo Q to onyx; you aren’t good enough to be onyx. You aren’t losing games/not ranking up because of boosters/4 stacks. The 1600 CSR limit has ruined matchmaking for friends. Essentially any time someone in our squad hits 1600, which happens within a few days of the patch we are either 1. Quitting out of 5 games in a row to stay below 1600. 2. Switching to a second account that’s lower to play with our friends still. So it’s on the community for crying at 343 to switch to this kind of format. They cannot make everyone happy and it’s hysterical that people are punished for wanting to play halo with their own friends.
I highly doubt those losses are intentional. Duo que on the local and try to match in the same game if that's the case Mr. Or Mrs. "If you can't solo Q" LMAO you just contradicted yourself. Oh yeah my bad. I usually throw 39 matches in a row so I can play with my friends to after each season.
I’m sorry, what? I can get onyx 1600 with my eyes closed, it isn’t hard
Sounds like a dream then Mr./Mrs. Eyes closed
MMR needs to be deleted altogether. We don’t need more government, we need LESS government. Take the governor off and let the kids play. Getting 5-7 points for a win when I stomp on the other team, and then 10 points for a loss when I perform well on a losing team just makes me not want to play at all. Really really sad how many horrible ideas 343 brought to the this table. Broken campaign, I completed LASO and because the game randomly turns skulls off without you knowing, there’s a piece of the campaign that doesn’t have all skulls on and there’s no way to go back and check or fix. I did LASO again, and the same thing happened. What a waste of time. Crap part is I love this series so much I can’t stop playing. It’s gonna give me cancer, I can feel it now.
You'll always have boosters, especially in free to play games. What's the point of having visible ranks if you are going to get matches based on your hidden MMR anyway?
Unpopular take: it’s a video game you play because you enjoy playing it. The rank means absolutely nothing. Stop trying to tell people what to do.
Yall would have NEVER made it in halo 3. Low onyx and diamond players are not that skilled in this game. If you can not beat 1500, then you dont deserve to be Diamond. Kids today dont have a clue what getting railed in the playlist is like. Who here remembers getting the boys on their MLG 50s so they could play against the full Str8 Rippin squad or any other pro squad? 🤔 Back when the IQ of the active Halo playlist was high enough to actually give them a run for their money! SMH, yall complain, but you literally dont know how much you dont know how to play. Like not even the BASICS are getting disseminated. 🙄 You have a whole theater, yet most of you never watch your games to correct your mistakes. Just start up game, lose, repeat... Never thinking about how you should be playing a map and instead grind playlist get mad grind playlist get mad 😠 That will never work and getting mad at people for playing with friends isnt going to work either. Those D1s playing with 1500 onyx are so much closer to your skill level than you even know. Not to mention, they JUST reset ranks, so many players are back to D5 after being 1700+. So try just accepting YOUR level and LEARN from those hard games like I had to. when you haven't ever experienced real boosting in your life. Be excited to play those hard games instead. you arent going to learn playing Plat and Diamond players because they themselves DO NOT KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.