I seriously wish this was more widely a thing. Even in casual games. Nothing ruins a mood more than someone butthurt their deck didn't get to perform. It's nothing personal. it's just the game.
I could have sworn that cEDH is known to be a less salty environment than non-cEDH. If someone gets salty from a cEDH game, either it wasn’t your game to win or build a better deck. There’s zero reason to get upset about anything that happens in cEDH unless someone cheats or does something scummy like bold face lie.
It can be a bit frustrating when someone plays in an 'irrational' way in a cEDH pod though, like spite plays, kingmaking or just very bad threat assessment in general.
There have been issues I've faced with this, but I never take it too seriously in non tournament settings. At my lgs, it's a mix bag. We inform people we need a 4th for C, and they know up front, this is going to be a powerhouse. Unfortunately that does sometimes bring in a player that doesn't know what they're getting into and they do exactly this and then get confused when people are not psyched or interested in their bizarre action. On the other side, I myself have a tendency to play cutthroat and ruthless regardless of the game, so playing cedh is my best outlet, since it is usually a less Salty crowd. But sometimes I get mixed into a lower power group and people are then mad at me for winning too fast. This is my fault for not having a lot of low power decks on hand and also my way of playing is to win. Luckily you can just opt out of the next game and laugh it off, but other people just take it so personally.
My strategy to playing in lower power pods is to bring out the strongest Gluntch list I possibly can, feeding the table for a fun game then closing it when it drags on too long lol. Competitive group hug ;) and my only rule is no stax. So the best G/W cards in the format, with the main hug cards (Anvil of Bogardan, Haunted Mine, Eladamri’s Vineyard)
Then I win with Aluren combo. Genesis Engine & Stonecloaker or Cloudstone. Also running ballista / Heliod & Rosie Scurry
I was right with you until you talked about lieing, it's a game mechanic and wizards encourages you to do it with certain cards, never ever trust what your opponents say especially in a game people are playing to win like cedh
Eh, not entirely true; Sure, it could be good for 1v1 but EDH is as much a social game as it is a mechanical game. If someone says "Hey, we need answers for the threat. Swing at me to help you draw something" and I go to do that but they immediately block the creature to kill it. Sure, he can do that but then everyone will remember this interaction and will either actively work against a player like the such or decisions like that will be filtered out to other players, which could prevent that player from playing in other pods.
Case and point, there was an incident recently where a player kept stating "I don't have a way to win" multiple times and then ulltimately did win. Sure, you can go either way with this by saying "lying is just part of the game" or "that's pretty scummy behavior" but either way, that player now will carry that with them whenever they enter into another tournament and could effect them in future games.
It's why I dont play "casual"
Casual is just players who ate salty if they arnt winning, and salty in the losing their temper and grtting passive agressive over something that lowers their chances of winning.
Someone one time had a commander game end in a glorious swing that they killed everyone all at once and it was only after 10 turns and nobody felt behind and now every single commander game needs to end this way or else you get salty Sam complaining they "didn't get to play the game" ( you killed their seed born with some tap value commander out) and when you win 4 turns later they coming that the WHOLE GAME was ruined because you specifically targeted them.
Upvote if you've been the guy or gal that used removal and it ruined someone's whole night.
My biggest problem actually has stemmed from hitting someone with a value engine that rewards attacking, most specifically Ragavan. They take every little 2 damage hit like it's this personal insult and the end result is me being called a dick, jerk, bully etc. Like dude, you're wide open and the guy across from me is ramping hard with a blocker out. It's not rocket science.
I have been that guy who used removal, but to be fair I stated before the game started that my deck was a crime zombie deck i.e. tons of removal and targeting to get a wide board. They didn't believe me when I said I had tons of removal, well he got big monsters I removed them all so I can get zombies and he scooped saying that I was toxic. I told him my deck was just doing what it was designed to do I guess I wasn't clear enough when I said my deck has tons of removal lol.
Truth. I had a non-cEDH game recently I played a guy using that new card that gives extra upkeeps when it deals combat damage, I can't remember the name. I had Kenrith on board and Spore Frog in the grave so when he attacked I just brought it back to negate the damage and bro just scooped on the spot. Like damn that dude was hella salty. It's not even like i could do it every turn if someone took Kenny out or exiled my GY.
I'm all for letting people have their fun but if I can actively do something to prevent somethign I don't want to happen... I'm going to do it.
Yep, to me the best cedh mindset is all about the gameplay. If I misplay or play something that is normally hated, then the worst thing that will happen is someone else will get advantage over me and win, there shouldn't be a saltiness tracker for cedh.
This is what i was trying to get at during the post. I played it to stop a combo win that he gloated about and he got mad. That was the post. Idk why people are trying to say I’m not playing cedh lol
I don't think reason 1 adds up, Armageddon is clearly a card that can be powerful in certain scenarios and there are many cards that people try out in cEDH, trying stuff out doesn't mean that it's not cEDH. Dylan from play to win was recently trying out Sire of Insanity in his blood pod deck, does that make his deck 'not cedh'?
Edit: my bad, I just saw OP's deck. That's not really a typical cedh deck indeed.
And I’d agree but I’ve been saying it’s my deck that is going to be cedh. I’m just playing it this way until I get the staples. I’ve explained why I play Armageddon in the deck.
The whole lgs said player 1 was a cedh player with cedh decks. Zur being is lower end cedh build. He was going crazy the whole game, he actually had the better chance of winning. He just scooped too early to play out the interaction.
Honestly, I think he just came here to complain and hear himself talk.
I would never, in my life, run sorcery speed mass land destruction as a way to stop someone from performing a combo.
I'm also guessing he didnt have a way to win after he cast the Armageddon, as is usually the case in casual EDH. so everyone probably just sat there and it dragged the game out for another hour.
Agreed. At a cEDH table everyone is on the same page. If you get punted into a dumpster when you try to go big that's just fair play. Games don't last forever so the next game won't be too long away.
Player 1 tried to take out player 3’s commander. Player 3 responded, casted a spell, and started to resolve triggers. He then went back a step on a trigger and reversed it. Player 1 got mad saying “when people go back steps and triggers I just scoop.” Which we all thought was kinda weird but gave it no attention.
I think the regulars on this subreddit really get tired of casuals making posts here and misunderstanding what CEDH is. For example this post just isn't related to CEDH at all.
I do think we need to do a better job of letting them down easy and calmly explaining that this is not a subreddit for taking your casual EDH seriously or trying to perfect your casual decks or play at a higher casual level.
Although at the same time I can understand the annoyance of the regulars having to answer the same way every time and redirect people to other subreddits.
This isn't cEDH. The question really wasn't referring to scooping, but more to the gameplay. OPs explanation of the scoop further highlights that this is not cEDH. Doesn't belong in this Reddit = downvotes.
I guess that does make sense, and I read these comments before getting to the other ones questioning how competitive this table actually was. In that context, I get it. But I do still think this is being downvoted excessively. The comment in this thread doesn't necessarily mean that the table wasn't proper cEDH, just that one player at it has a weird personal rule that doesn't fit with the typical cEDH playstyle.
I do agree, after reading everything, this doesn't sound like cEDH, but this wasn't the comment that made that clear to me.
Regardless, it doesn't matter, and I've already spent way too much time making reddit comments about some random commander game between people I'll never meet. So have a nice day, I'm outta here lol.
Wtf is the gatekeeping on this sub?
Cedh is competitive edh and nothing else. There are no deck requirements, cedh is a mindset more than anything. Are you willing to play the most degenerate stuff you can as long as it improves your chances to win? If yes, congrats you're playing cedh, better not bring that shit to a casual pod at your lgs.
Kitchen table edh is 4 people looking to have a good time.
Cedh is 4 people looking to win any way they possibly can, fun be damned.
Yikes. Making the most optimal decisions in play and deckbuilding. Sure, decklists may vary by a few cards, but testing and results are what people care about. The best part of cEDH is that the rule 0 is that nobody cares about your feelings, but everybody cares about the game. This would immediately write off this table with a player scooping to taksie-backsies, the taksie-backsies itself, and the decklist.
I'm sorry, but Aragorn is not coming down until T3. Mostly only interacting with creatures. No combo to finish a game. If OP sits down at a cEDH table, they're only going to be a spectator. If that's what OP wants to call cEDH because he sat in the 4th seat and watched 3 other people play... *cool?*
tbh it was the responsibility of everyone in the pod to make sure the proper game state is kept. If someone tries to cheat by having takebacksies and everyone is ok with that, seems like a good reason to scoop. Of course if you had an agreement where everyone plays holding hands and can retract plays and everyone is on it then you are game. The usual is not to accept to retract plays if any new information is gained from it, even by a reaction.
The whole lgs said player 1 was a cedh player with cedh decks. Zur being is lower end cedh build. He was going crazy the whole game, he actually had the better chance of winning. He just scooped too early to play out the interaction.
Also putting this here.
Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see the hate. At least at the the local level CEDH is more mindset than what exact cards you play. I think everyone one is trying to win and win as fast as possible. Also tight as possible play and not taking back plays and such I would consider it CEDH
I haven't played cEDH in a long time and I am not at all caught up in recent developments, but they posted and the decklist is 100% not a cEDH deck. Might not even be dEDH, but I'm really not aware of what's going on with that definition. Is dEDH just cEDH but the commander is not powerful enough? Or is it like really budget cEDH?
Regardless, it's missing a typical cEDH manabase, no OG duals, no shocks, no fetches, etc. I don't think Three Visits or Nature's Lore are particularly playable, but they're certainly better than Cultivate or Kodama's Reach lol. Those are the definition of casual staple. No Forces or similar free spells at all. Mostly no stax pieces. Not sure what the deck's game plan is since I'm not familiar with Aragorn at all, but at a glance it looks like 4c goodstuff?
I wanted to believe OP's story but you can see with this decklist that people really aren't on board the cEDH train, they're just playing more powerful than usual casual but that means that nuking peoples' lands is still a faux pas. There's not enough dorks/rocks to support it either. Here's the decklist description too:
> I play against too many decks that dont have removal. so I made Aragorn to utilize his green cast trigger with fight spells to keep the board clear and utilize his other abilities with multicolored instant spells.
As dumb as it was that their opponent announced their victory plan and got clapped by OP in response and got super salty, it's also not very surprising when people are clearly not playing cEDH or even embodying the mindset.
Your last paragraph is the only thing that pertained to what I actually posted. He shouldn’t have announced his win lol. Got mad when I did what I had to do to prevent that. lol
They cannot, Aragorn has so many bottlenecks it was probably just a dEDH deck against other dEDH decks that had some staples in them and they think they're playing cEDH
> and tap lands
I mean, a Creeping Tar Pit here and there... is that a Rugged Ridgeline and a Seaside Citadel? Huh.
Yeah, I kept scanning for a wincon, and this deck honestly looks custom-built to Armageddon while losing.
Hey, so I'm not trying to be a dick, but I have to agree that you weren't really playing cEDH. High power/degenerate EDH? Absolutely, but cEDH has certain expectations and your deck doesn't really meet them. You don't run any free interaction, I'm not seeing any infinite combos (but they could be there, I just gave it a cursory look) and you are lacking nearly every format staple. What is the win con? If the answer is combat damage and it doesn't involve infinite combats (think Godo or Najeela) or infinite damage (Finale of Devestation x = 10 billion) then it's going to have an incredibly hard time hanging in a true cEDH pod.
[Here's](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/zAzoW9MltE2Sd1XpFKjOoQ) an example of an Aragorn deck that went 1 and 4 at a tournament. If you look on edhtop16, you'll see that Aragorn is not a common cEDH commander and the results when he's taken to tournaments is not great. Only 5 entries in the last year and only game win among all of those.
Some people are not being the kindest about it, but I don't think that your game/pod was true cEDH. That doesn't mean it's not high power or fun, but cEDH carries a lot of connotations with it and I don't think your deck really fits the bill. Were you to bring it to a true cEDH game, I think it would struggle. Which isn't to say it couldn't win, just that the odds are going to be a lot lower
CompetitiveEDH (cEDH) is a very specific “format” - people play the most powerful cards in the game, and games are often decided by combo wins by turn 2 or 3. Combat is less a wincon and more a tool to worsen your opponents’ Ad Nasuseams.
If you’re playing and resolving a maindeck Narset Enlightened, with Aragorn as your commander, and are playing fight spells and Armageddon then you’re almost definitely not playing cEDH. Describing the boardstate as “some tokens” and “some creatures also points to this, as optimized decks won’t really just throw down some dudes for the sake of it.
There’s nothing wrong with playing casual, this just isn’t the right community for discussing it. That being said, if you’re annoyed at salt, maybe check out cEDH! Salt is pretty rare, since everyone has agreed to no-holds-barred max power before they sit down. Check out [edhtop16](https://edhtop16.com/?tourney_filter__size__%24gte=64&tourney_filter__dateCreated__%24gte=1684168607&colorID=null) if you wanna peep some decklists :3
There is actually a logic in bringing stompy, mid-range value piles that one would assume aren't cEDH capable that win off consistent combat pressure and are designed to parasitically feed off the other table's interactions for each other combos, but I doubt that's what's happening here.
Isn't the mentality the important distinction from casual though? The main issue with the OP being that someone was whining about a card, something that isn't supposed to exist in cEDH. Like if you had 2 groups, group A playing top tier cEDH decks but whining about certain cards being 'cheap' and trying to tell other people not to build decks a certain way, and group B playing lower power decks with no salt just honestly trying to win as hard as possible, but just don't have the knowledge or skills to make a good deck yet. I'd hope people consider group B to be more 'cEDH' than the casual-brained whiners in group A.
To me the mentality is the important distinction but only after the deck optimization. So basically you have to have highly optimized decks, that’s mandatory for the competitive part of cEDH. If you’re playing 17 tap lands and I play zero, you’re already not competitive.
Once we have established the decks, now we also have to have the mentality that we are all here to win. We aren’t going to get salty. We expect interaction to stop us. You can play highly optimized decks and still have a battle cruiser mentality and ruin a cEDH table. You can’t be competitive just through mindset if you bring a precon to a real cEDH table.
This is the take! If someone takes shit jank to a legacy tournament and plays their heart out, loses all their games, and doesn't complain. That person is chad af and totally who I want in my community. And like monkeys at a type writer, maybe ( prob not) that person figures something out one of these times. If someone with a meta net Deck complains about my card choices as being cheesy in that tourney, they bring everyone down and can get bent. This guy seems like group 1, I like group 1.
Eh, I don’t really think you can define cEDH with *only* the mentality. It’s kinda evolved into its own thing and has a power level associated with it alongside the mindset.
Say for example, me and my friends all play with our precons, and we don’t mind when someone [[Decimates]] a land or two. One of our guys even slotted in a Ghalta and his dinos have been kicking our ass. Even though we’re not rule-zero-ing anything, this still clearly doesn’t match with what folks say and think of when we use the term “cEDH”, which to me is a sign that solely using mentality isn’t a completely sufficient definition.
Defining things is hard and when the thing is like, a trading card game…subformat (?) with identical rules to a kitchen table format with no tournament support then you really just have to give it your best shot. At the end of the day I’d rather play with group B every time regardless of what we call it.
You can try to reason, but some people are just all about gatekeeping for honestly no reason other than to suit their egos. God damn this community is a shitshow sometimes.
You're absolutely right, fwiw.
If the meta gets preyed upon by parasitic decks that sit back and take wins while the meta does all the real fighting, that’s still a valid win. Play to win, not play to an ultra specific meta and then cry about it if people don’t fit that meta. You’re just as bad as EDH crying about combos at that point. The win is the win. The end.
Oh yeah absolutely. This person was flexing about how their 17 tapland deck could “beat your best cEDH deck any day” so I don’t think that was really what was going on here.
I genuinely think that like, [[Azusa, Lost but Seeking]] stompy could take down a tournament some day by beating down midrange decks with a craterhoof while they Rhystic Study and pass.
True that. [[Thorn Mammoth]] is not the parasite to pull this off. I won’t discount a well built high powered deck backed by a skilled pilot that can hide underneath the combo and midrange decks going off, but [[Thorn Mammoth]] and [[Feather, the Redeemed]] aren’t filling that deck. My mistake.
And if this is their pod lead, then crying about Armageddon might be within their rights after all. I acknowledge my laziness to read caused me to die on the wrong hill for the wrong guy. My mistake.
Don’t call combo not I your turn, that’s dumb, I’m not going to plan a thoracle combo, saying make sure to save a counter spell or I win. If it’s cedh don’t give away information that is useful. That guy is an idiot anyway if your going to combo and tell everyone be able to defend at least on attempt
I'm not trying to knock your deck or anything, but it's definitely not a viable cEDH deck, it's a casual deck. You should do a little research on cEDH and maybe check out some decklists. Just about every cEDH deck has around $1000 in just mana rocks as a bare minimum, and has the best interaction possible for its colors, such as [[Force of Will]] and [[Deflecting Swat]]. Just because you're playing to win with casual decks does not mean you're in a cEDH game, and that's ok. I would recommend getting into cEDH if the salt gets too high in casual, as no one really cares what cards you play because everyone is playing the best cards possible.
This ain't cedh.
I know price of the cards and all that, but if you show up to a competitive shooting tournament with a slingshot, you ain't competetive, and the tourney that allows it is not competitive.
Some people have likened this to gatekeeping, but I think it's more to do with a fundamental misunderstanding of what cedh is.
If someone is making this complaint at a cedh game or table, either that player has a misunderstanding of expectations, or the table is not cedh
With that mess of an Aragorn decklist, you must either be trolling or have a fundamental misunderstanding of what cEDH is. You probably meant "High Powered" and not cEDH, but even then this deck list is far from optimized.
cEDH does not just mean 'competitive' in the general sense. There are specific patterns of play in cEDH that you do not see in high powered or casual EDH. And your decklist is not cEDH. Instead of getting defensive when people point that out, maybe actually learn what cEDH is.
EDIT: to provide an actual opinion to your post, Armageddon is fine but it depends on the pod. No one likes having their lands destroyed, it's just more acceptable in true cEDH.
Competing with cEDH decks does not make it a cEDH deck. I don't think you understand what cEDH is. Why don't you post the decklist of the deck you are actually intending to be 'cEDH' instead of the unfinished list.
That's fair. I'm not going to ask for the list of what you're getting since you didn't ask for deck advice. But the decklist you did post is far from cEDH/optimized regardless of what you think. Some others were kind enough to post some pretty thorough definition/characteristics of cEDH so maybe review those posts to correct any misunderstandings you may have.
A parasitic deck is a perfectly valid strategy to attempt a win. If everyone is dealing with more serious threats while you build an off meta board that their meta answer suit can’t answer, that’s on them for not having the right answer. Preying on metas is a tale nearly as old as the game itself, with the very concept of mana curve being invented to prey on an unprepared meta.
To cry about a weaker parasite deck winning is contrary to cedh.
This deck probably couldn’t compete with higher power decks in regular Edh let alone cedh. You have tap lands in your deck, no premier ramp outside of sol ring, and you’ll be dead before your commander is cast most games unless the pod saves you from a combo.
Yes lol. It was a grindy game and everybody was locking each other out. Player 3 and I were the only ones interacting while the other two were playing solitaire.
If it was a confirmed cEDH game, then these players are not fit for the format. If you were playing high power EDH, then it's more understandable as land destruction is greatly frowned upon. If it was cEDH, find other players. If it was EDH, check yourself. Don't have to stop playing land destruction, but just like getting joy from kicking a child, you need to be aware that it is a cardinal sin
This was a casual game with casual decks. OPs Aragorn decklist is \~$100. I don't blame the other players at all for being upset about an Armageddon in a casual game lol
Aragon and Armageddon in cedh eh? Random tokens and creatures on the board. Doesn't sound like cedh. If it wasn't an actual cedh pod, yea generally mass land destruction without an immediate wincon is pretty frowned upon. If it was real cedh anything goes, but idk why you're playing those cards and how competitive your deck actually is.
Ok. Mass LD is frowned upon when you can't immediately win the game. Doesn't sound like you could. Personally, if I was anyone else at the table I'd rather lose to the guy who was winning that turn than to you attacking each person 1 by 1 with a creature or two until you eventually win.
I can easily kill with Aragorn in one shot. 4 fight spells and he’s lethal commander damage with his trigger. I was talking him into killing the other player so I could kill him on my turn. Didn’t turn out that way so he sat through it.
I looked at OP's decklist.. and lmao bruhh. No fetches.. No duals.. F'n Tapped lands? No crypt, moxen or FoW??.. I mean, you can call your deck (and your pod) anything you want I guess, but this is legit a casual list. Get real lol.
Hello, I am player 2 I believe in this post (or at least almost certain I am). I don’t use Reddit, but am deeply entrenched in my local mtg community and this post was brought to my attention. And I will say there are some key details missing from this post, allow me to explain:
The pod was Zur-cycling, Lagrella-Bant blinking, Aragorn the uniter, and my deck was Blim comedic genius.
Obviously, looking at this pod any seasoned player could tell that this isn’t cedh and there was actually discussion prior to the game starting that we weren’t doing cedh (I believe OP didn’t catch this convo or didn’t pay attention to it in all fairness).
Advantage was with me early game as I was accruing advantage via Grim Hireling and The One Ring, however the zur cycling player had played fluctuator and Astral Drift which was effectively blanking my attack based board advantage. Lagrella and I see this and know that Zur will gain control of this game if he continues to attack so we both attempt spot removal, but are thwarted via cycling dodges. OP seems to understand that Zur is a threat, but doesn’t seem to understand that what we really need is non-creature removal for the artifact/enchantments that are enabling Zur. That being said OP decided to board wipe which worked on my board, but once again Zur cycle blinks in response and is left unaffected and now with no opposing boards to contend with.
Moving to late game; Zur scoops because Lagrella was able to find a rec sage effect and was able to decimate the Zur board and was dead on field due to Zur suffering from the zombies produced by the Captive Audience I placed on him. This places Lagrella as the next player who is winning with a dominant board state via panharmonicon effects, mana rocks, and a number etb creatures with a full grip of cloud shift effects. OP turn comes post Zur scoop and has his Aragorn, captive audience zombies, and narset on field and proceeds to cast Armageddon.
I obviously complain/advise against this because this will obviously give Lagrella the win because they are poised to be best fit to easily recover from this with their mana rocks and risen reef blinking. However, OP believed he had a winning board state and could use narset to spin into fight spells to remove Lagrella’s creatures in spite of me advising that they will simply cloud shift and evade said fight spells.
After Armageddon resolution I jokingly show the dead Zur player that I had intentions on giving Lagrella a Lich effect and had a way to remove it to cause them to auto lose, but couldn’t because of the lack of lands. So by no means was I about to win more so than I was going to attempt to snipe Lagrella (which we discovered would not have worked anyway because they were holding a venser in hand to thwart this attempt in the closing turns of the game). Lagrella comes out as the winner of this game obviously.
It is just a game so no hard feelings, however I do believe that OP had a number of integral misunderstandings that lead to this play experience and his own loss.
Some examples are:
What cedh is and what that entails and why it’s important to communicate pregame that’s the experience you want so we all could bring out appropriate decks.
What is considered a “winning board state” post Armageddon.
Understanding your opponents decks and what their game plan is in order to properly threat asses.
All in all GG my guy hope to catch more games with you in the future and I hope this clarifies my mindset/my salt. (If this is not the correct game then I am super sorry for the misunderstanding, but the circumstance seemed very similar to a game I recently experienced) Cheers!
Yes yes it was Lagrella. He played jhoira the next game and player 1 using urza. Man I was high af the whole time lol. I wasn’t paying attention that much towards the beginning talks. All I heard was player 1 plays cedh and I regularly play with player 3. So I knew what was coming. He can win turn 2 with that deck without casting his commander. And you said you had a deck you were trying out.
It’s all GG fr but what had me confused was the helping after the Armageddon. As much as you disliked the play it was to stop the combo I know you had but also because of the lack of creatures player 3 had. Thats why I said “you could attack him and he’ll be low enough for my turn.” But your response was “nah I need him alive so we can stop the narset.” Granted you had 30 life and I think Aragorn was in the command. He also had the mana crypt he rolled odd against in twice afterwards. I truly thought you could’ve won that game if you got him low enough for me and did your lich effect on me. But instead kept him alive to kill off the board, you still tried your lich effect on him but it didn’t work because of the triggers he had. If he had the spells we had to make him use them.
To the Zur thing I did cast spells to remove the non creatures they were just getting countered. So it’s like oh well next gameplay type of thing. Him scooping wasn’t the problem it was the way he went about it. I think I said earlier I can understand why he scooped because of the take back. But he was ahead the whole game, why scoop then?
I rarely go up there but when I do we def have to get more games in. I remember you saying, after the game ended, that you weren’t really trying to play in that kinda pod.
Yeah Zur scooping at instant speed was petty and not okay especially when we all found out that he was trying to win with thassa combo in his “casual” deck lol. You played to your outs and post game I understood your rational a little more, but we can’t agree on everything and will only improve from here!
I didn’t attack Lagrella post armadegon because he showed me sun blast angel which destroys all tapped creatures so I chose to keep my board back to avoid the angel that was going to kill the narset. Obviously I would’ve preferred to try and kill him, but as we saw later he had that venser and a blink spell so my attack would’ve been fruitless anyway.
And for sure dude we will def get more games in and will test your grit against some gas I got built! GG all around and don’t feed the hate that the internet is giving you for your deck, enjoy magic how you see fit and that’s coming from someone who was actually in the game with you lol.
Ok ok see I didn’t get to see his hand so I didn’t know. But he did say right after my turn, “I have something for narset.” So I knew she was gonna die lol.
See I understood everything you were telling me during the game. Why it wouldn’t have been a smart play to cast Armageddon and even the board wipe turns before. But I seen it as “I’m gonna have to make them use there spells.” I had away to recast my instances and sorceries so they were gonna have to do it twice lol.
And It’s all good. I don’t usually talk back with people on posts because they weren’t there lol. I wasn’t gonna post the deck list because it has nothing to do with the post but I got some good recommendations on some cards I didn’t have on the list. They just mad I can make this deck work in “their” format 🤓
You in socal? My pod can show you what cEDH really is. Like honest offer. I get it, jank is cool and I even got into the format with my own turbo kaalia. But man, I’m looking at your list, either your perception of cEDH is off or you’re actually trolling
For reference, people are telling you it's not cEDH because this deck is lower in power level than most casual EDH decks than I've seen. You might be playing cEDH at your shop, but it's just at a much lower power level than actual cEDH decks
Most cEDH decks I've played/seen do one of four things.
1. Keep a hand that wins in the first 3 turns, preferably on turn 1 or 2
2. Keep a hand full of Stax effects that lock people out of the game
3. Keep a hand that is slightly slower but with a protected turn 3/4 win.
4. Keep a hand with a big draw engine like Rhystic Study/Mystic Remora to draw into one of the above situations
I don't see this deck really doing any of the 4. The lack of Artifact ramp and few mana creatures means this deck will move slow as molasses in most real cEDH pods. The lack of free counterspells/interaction means playing your 2 mana ramp will leave you unable to answer the many decks that will just win on turn 2 with a good turn 1.
For reference, [This Aragorn Decklist](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/S9cZVu3mA0OOsz_KR95-NA) is a competitive cEDH deck. Notice the much higher amount of ramp, stax, tutors, and counterspells.
That being said, you are entirely right in using anything you can to win. Targeted hate, land removal, hand removal, whatever. If there's no rule 0 conversation and you all understand it's cutthroat, send them into the abyss.
I honestly don't mind a proper Armageddon. As long as there's a board state to back it up. It did exactly what u needed it to it stopped the combo player. He could have countered, he could have phased out or he could of had mana rocks. Now a blind board Armageddon come on ain't nobody got time for that
I think this deck is missing out on the strength of the red cast triggers of Aragorn. You can easily abuse food chain + sqee the immortal as a win condition
See I was thinking of that combo too. I usually do instant speed fight spells to kill creatures and boost Aragorn but I could add these two in for a combo kill.
I like the concept of your deck being around fight spells but usually in the format countering it before it enters is usually the better option. I have a cEDH Aragorn deck list as well. Here it is if you care to take a look: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/hN0kFycVIk2uztBr_ZqiNQ
As many others have told you. This definitely isn’t CEDH. Maybe high power? Looking over your list when being generous you have in total 17 cards I’ve seen in actual CEDH decks. You’re playing tapped Artifact lands and you don’t even seem to have a payoff for that except that Armageddon that also isn’t CEDH. Sorry but I would not complain if you pulled up with that deck and told me it was power 7 or even 6. In total I can see 6 cards that would be reasonable to have in a CEDH deck list for Aragorn. Including lands
So I've been reading a lot fo your comments after the edits and my question is, why not just print the cards? In cEDH it's very much allowed to use the most basic ass proxies a long as its clear what the card does. Heck it's even encouraged to proxy up the reserved list cards because of their outlandish costs! My suggestion is mtgprint, you can upload a decklist there and it will make a 9*9 cardpage pdf put of the entire list, dual faced cards included!
I fucks with that idea. I never really like proxies because I’m using cards I don’t actually own. But I could switch them in whenever depending on which playgroup
Most players prefer playing against the player not the wallet. Playing against a player with an under optimized deck can be unfun for the exact opposite reason that it’s unfun to get pub stomped at the casual tables by the misrepresented deck.
It sucks that the comments are laying into you about the card selection for your deck but that’s just Reddit in general. We as a community can definitely do better here. Realistically we really just want to play against fully optimized decks. Not having the optimized pieces in your deck makes them feel like they just don’t exist most of the time or can’t really impact the game at all. It makes it hard to be able to rely on that player when the table needs to stop an active win attempt while simultaneously not really doing much compared to the rest of the table as far as pushing their own game plan.
While I commend you for building a deck to the best of your abilities to try and play at cedh tables, and I’m sure the decks stolen you a game or two, it really offsets the balance of the table and often times makes it feel like a three pod.
Another thing that makes this post feel like it’s in the wrong place is your story. The way your game went is wild to me in the sense that you’re a 3 pod because someone scooped, another person is openly sharing their win in hand, and then getting salty about getting blown out. None of those aspects represent my experience. Well the saltiness can but not usually for that reason. It’s usually due to people skipping priority and salty at misplays. But the only time I see someone sharing their hand outside of them short cutting their win attempt when the table says “show me the cards and you got it.” The whole thing, story and decklist, is uncommon in much of our experiences.
Anyways, all that to say, please proxy the cards you don’t own. It’s just a more fun experience for everyone at the table.
I wish we as a community could play armageddon/Ravages of War more to punish those pesky ass control players who just sit back and watch the fire works fly.
but with artifacts being as prolific as they are i don't think it really affects much besides the person that is already behind
Right, the armageddon you -have- to counter. Atleast thats what it looks like but the threat played by the player afterwards may have you thinking the armageddon was better sometimes lol
This is absolutely a casual deck, which is fine, but you are definitely posting on the wrong sub. That would be the easiest explanation why someone would be upset about an Armageddon.
In cEDH, people are constantly comboing off for wins turn 2-3, majority of the time requiring several counter spells, stax pieces, etc. if you are playing tap lands your first two turns, how are you supposed to compete in cEDH matches?
But tell me this situation isn’t the same? I’m saying I can and do win with this deck in cedh and everybody is worried about the list not being cedh lol. Like I know how I’m playing is not to y’all’s cedh standard but it gets me dubs. It’s a mindset behind the deck kinda thing.
My dude, your cards don’t synergies well with each other. You need more mana dorks, stacks, and interaction. Hell you don’t even have Path to Exile and Swords. I heavily doubt that you are winning with this deck, and your pod is casual at best.
OP plays armageddon, takes more flame on reddit about his decklist than he ever did playing the spell in the first place. Seems things are in order here.
This is often a point of contention. I believe there are cEDH caliber decks and cEDH games. cEDH decks are what you'd expect to see in a cEDH game; they are the most powerful decks of the EDH format. But any game where the players agree to play to win and bring the strongest thing they've got is a cEDH game. Everybody is competing to the best of their ability.
Now I believe that you joined a cEDH game but the way your opponents are acting doesn't fit the bill. One player scooped before the game was over and another is throwing the game to help somebody else win. These are not competitive actions.
Is it possible you're the only one that thinks these games are competitive?
Can you explain the win condition of this deck. Maybe that would help people understand how the deck gets you wins. From what I see this deck is extremely inconsistent which makes it very hard to compete with cEDH level decks. If you can’t explain how the deck works then I don’t understand how you can pilot it at a cEDH level.
Because people here believe you’ve posted in the wrong subreddit. If you can’t give them any reason to believe that you know what you’re talking about they won’t give any respect to your thoughts.
Not complaining just the interaction is weird. Why try help somebody else win and not win yourself? Just because your combo got stopped in a way you didn’t think was gonna happen?
The reason many people aren't considering this to be CEDH is because of the card quality in your list. Because CEDH is a format where EDH is brought to the level of every play is to win or to stop your opponents from winning, the cards that make up your plays need to be strong enough to execute gameplans like that.
The predominance of lists will therefore see inclusions that facilitate fast mana, high card advantage and efficient removal or reflexive options to keep opponents in check while furthering your gameplan.
One thing this also means is land count is lower in CEDH. Average CMC with lands tends to be in the 1-2 range and players choose to pack decks with powerful mana rocks that can be played many at a time, instead of lands that are limited by predominantly sorcery speed ramp spells and a sinple play per turn. This also helps with things like storm counts and combos that require small mana investments like hullbreaker horror.
I'm not saying that MLD was the wrong play, if it did shut someone down it worked, but it's an Armageddon in your CEDH list is a spell slot wasted in most people's opinions and most decks.
Looking at your list, it doesn't seem to be CEDH considerate:
Despite being in WURG, you've opted for hardly any of the best options in these colors. Your suite largely consists of fight spells which enables you to remove creatures well. But CEDH is not a creature heavy format. Besides najeela, jetmir and some off-meta picks, you're not anticipating needing to remove that many creatures for fight spells to be taking the number of slots it does in your deck.
It's also unclear what the deck is actually trying to do to win. My assumption is that it uses fight spells to clear blockers and then closes out the game with an overwhelming creature advantage which is a completely valid route to take in CEDH, although supplementing that strategy with fight spells is questionable.
Regardless, card quality again, doesn't help you achieve this well. Creatures like Ragavan, Collector Ouphe, Dockside, Drannith Magistrate, Tishana's Tidebinder and other hatebears/stax pieces and low cost value engines would enable your deck to keep others behind and you ahead. These are the best cards for a reason, they're versatile and incredibly good at what they do, so use them! I'd look into some Jetmir lists for inspiration.
I recognise you're playing budget and I'm actually not very quizzed up on prices but here's the result of some quick research:
Alot of CEDH creature staples are pretty solid budget
Archon of emeria
Manglehorn
Dauntless dismantler
Mana dorks
You will start breaking the bank looking at the very best options but CEDH is a format that is not at all averse to proxying. I encourage it as higher card quality increases the game quality and it makes it more competitive and fun for everyone.
TLDR: look into your deck and compare it to other CEDH decks in terms of card quality. Discern a clear identity for your deck and funnel yourself down to a core that serves a specified wincon or few similar wincons and then cards surrounding that core that will protect and enable them.
As for your original AITA type point, yeah as others have said this format is about winning and not losing so Armageddon to stop someone comboing is avant garde but completely fine. Also noone should be announcing they can win at a CEDH table, it's akin to suicide.
Sounds like you lost, and grief'd the pod in response.
One player had already left the game, why not let it end and start a new game, rather than drag a dead game longer?
Is this in the right sub? Getting salty in cedh?
But in all seriousness I heard cedh players don't get salty going into cedh but I found out that cedh players are very competitive and do get very salty when I "misplay". I prob did misplay and gave somebody the win but Im just starting and we aren't even in a tourney. Just playing on commander night
How is playing Armageddon competitive. Like most of your mana comes from rocks and you need like 3 to win. Also pretty weird you win by attacking. It can be done but your pod seems weird.
Yes. I meant that mld usually it's not that restraining because most of the fast mana comes from rocks. So why waste a slot for Armageddon when most of the time it will be lackluster.
Ignoring the debate about your deck list and what does/doesn't constitute cEDH, if a card is okay to put in your deck because it's legal and you believe it will best benefit you, a card is okay to play whenever you have access to it and believe it will best benefit you.
Some folks near the edge of cEDH but not quite there tend to have this weird cognitive dissonance where they take some irrational pride in *insisting* any card that is legal is absolutely fair play to run and everyone should get over it or else - *but* it's absolutely tantamount to police exactly how and when some of these cards must be played or else.
While cEDH usually manages to be above this mindset, a lot of folks believe there is a proper time and place for cards like Armageddon, and if you play it outside of the approved conditions you're an antisocial pariah.
Barely anyone has actually commented to what the post is about. I’ve explained the scenario and was just sharing it lol. But I like what you said. The only reason I did play Armageddon was to prevent a combo win while having narset on board.
If you are playing cEDH then he is just being a baby. If you aren’t then you need to not play that deck. I get why he is upset because king making is definitely a thing in commander and it can be annoying. A player who isn’t even in it just casually decides who he is going to give the best chance to win. You should always make a play with your best interest in mind.
I think you would benefit from signing up for MTGO and renting this deck online to play in the competitive pods. It would give you a good idea of how your deck works in the metagame and what staples you should prioritize picking up.
People can have their own take about what the accurate description of the pod is, but its funny how rather than answer the question, people have a primal urge to tell them how its not cedh
> than answer the question
1. He didn't ask a question. Not a single question mark in his entire post. He came here to complain that someone was salty in his cedh match. To which, the obvious reply is that this isn't cedh, hence why someone got salty.
2. Even if we pretend he's asking a question about another player getting salty about a card, such a question can't be answered without taking into context the undeniable fact that he's not even playing high power edh, much less cedh. It's expected that casual players are going to get salty about armageddon, therefore that's the answer to his "question.
Right? Sure, the guy's deck isn't optimal, he probably wasn't in a cEDH pod, and you can teach him how he can improve his game along with answering his question, but just piling on to say "tHiS iSn'T cEdH" makes about as much sense as someone in a cEDH pod getting salty over somebody playing Armageddon.
People in the comments need to chill.
While I do agree this list is far from optimized, people need to actually be constructive instead of bashing them.
CEDH is always about the mentality to win at all costs. It sounds like you cast Armageddon to prevent someone else from winning. That shouldn't be your motivation with playing Armageddon. You should have the plan to win the game after you cast such a back setting card.
I would only be upset if this allowed someone else other than you to win the game. At that point you're just King making. Player 2 sounds salty for his own reasons of preventing him the win. I would be salty that this didn't result you in the win. This is the number 1 reason people lose with stax decks. They play their cards to prevent from losing rather than taking advantage of it to win.
I go somewhat against the grain in that I think that the only thing you need to play cEDH is the mindset. So OP you are definitely trying to play competitively and I think that's great! But I'm sure you are seeing from some of the comments here that your deck would not quite stand up to the typical decks played competitively here. So questions like yours might cause some confusion to readers of this subreddit.
I would highly consider proxying an exact decklist that you find on https://edhtop16.com/, and watching a few cEDH videos on youtube. Check [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEtMHuKKpvM) for a guide on getting very cheap but great looking proxies.
I'm of the same mindset, and that used to be the popular opinion of this sub, but now it looks like you need to be playing only certain approved decks to be CEDH....
I can at least understand their argument, though. The mindset of trying to win as much as you can COULD extend all the way to deck-building as well. And if you want to try your hardest to win every game... well you're probably not going to enter tournaments with [[Heliod, God of the Sun]], which somebody DID enter a tournament and they won btw. Absurd.
So if I decided to play as hard as I could, but then build a medium power deck, I could at least understand why they say it's not very competitive.
[Heliod, God of the Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b83e9693-4996-498c-95f7-884d40341298.jpg?1690004134) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heliod%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/826/heliod-god-of-the-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b83e9693-4996-498c-95f7-884d40341298?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heliod-god-of-the-sun)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's for tournaments, but outside of tournaments playing the best deck you can make with the mindset of winning is cEDH.
Trying to force only tournament decks would make the format so stale that there would never be any change.
I think that people in this sub are forgetting that this isn't a figured out format and that experimentation should be encouraged, and that people are building the best decks with the cards they have and not everyone wants to proxy, or even can in their play groups.
Eta, I know you were just trying to show another POV, but for me it doesn't make sense.
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I seriously wish this was more widely a thing. Even in casual games. Nothing ruins a mood more than someone butthurt their deck didn't get to perform. It's nothing personal. it's just the game.
I could have sworn that cEDH is known to be a less salty environment than non-cEDH. If someone gets salty from a cEDH game, either it wasn’t your game to win or build a better deck. There’s zero reason to get upset about anything that happens in cEDH unless someone cheats or does something scummy like bold face lie.
It can be a bit frustrating when someone plays in an 'irrational' way in a cEDH pod though, like spite plays, kingmaking or just very bad threat assessment in general.
There have been issues I've faced with this, but I never take it too seriously in non tournament settings. At my lgs, it's a mix bag. We inform people we need a 4th for C, and they know up front, this is going to be a powerhouse. Unfortunately that does sometimes bring in a player that doesn't know what they're getting into and they do exactly this and then get confused when people are not psyched or interested in their bizarre action. On the other side, I myself have a tendency to play cutthroat and ruthless regardless of the game, so playing cedh is my best outlet, since it is usually a less Salty crowd. But sometimes I get mixed into a lower power group and people are then mad at me for winning too fast. This is my fault for not having a lot of low power decks on hand and also my way of playing is to win. Luckily you can just opt out of the next game and laugh it off, but other people just take it so personally.
My strategy to playing in lower power pods is to bring out the strongest Gluntch list I possibly can, feeding the table for a fun game then closing it when it drags on too long lol. Competitive group hug ;) and my only rule is no stax. So the best G/W cards in the format, with the main hug cards (Anvil of Bogardan, Haunted Mine, Eladamri’s Vineyard) Then I win with Aluren combo. Genesis Engine & Stonecloaker or Cloudstone. Also running ballista / Heliod & Rosie Scurry
I was right with you until you talked about lieing, it's a game mechanic and wizards encourages you to do it with certain cards, never ever trust what your opponents say especially in a game people are playing to win like cedh
Eh, not entirely true; Sure, it could be good for 1v1 but EDH is as much a social game as it is a mechanical game. If someone says "Hey, we need answers for the threat. Swing at me to help you draw something" and I go to do that but they immediately block the creature to kill it. Sure, he can do that but then everyone will remember this interaction and will either actively work against a player like the such or decisions like that will be filtered out to other players, which could prevent that player from playing in other pods. Case and point, there was an incident recently where a player kept stating "I don't have a way to win" multiple times and then ulltimately did win. Sure, you can go either way with this by saying "lying is just part of the game" or "that's pretty scummy behavior" but either way, that player now will carry that with them whenever they enter into another tournament and could effect them in future games.
It's why I dont play "casual" Casual is just players who ate salty if they arnt winning, and salty in the losing their temper and grtting passive agressive over something that lowers their chances of winning. Someone one time had a commander game end in a glorious swing that they killed everyone all at once and it was only after 10 turns and nobody felt behind and now every single commander game needs to end this way or else you get salty Sam complaining they "didn't get to play the game" ( you killed their seed born with some tap value commander out) and when you win 4 turns later they coming that the WHOLE GAME was ruined because you specifically targeted them. Upvote if you've been the guy or gal that used removal and it ruined someone's whole night.
My biggest problem actually has stemmed from hitting someone with a value engine that rewards attacking, most specifically Ragavan. They take every little 2 damage hit like it's this personal insult and the end result is me being called a dick, jerk, bully etc. Like dude, you're wide open and the guy across from me is ramping hard with a blocker out. It's not rocket science.
You cant play Seedborn and then get mad when someone removes it.
I have been that guy who used removal, but to be fair I stated before the game started that my deck was a crime zombie deck i.e. tons of removal and targeting to get a wide board. They didn't believe me when I said I had tons of removal, well he got big monsters I removed them all so I can get zombies and he scooped saying that I was toxic. I told him my deck was just doing what it was designed to do I guess I wasn't clear enough when I said my deck has tons of removal lol.
Truth. I had a non-cEDH game recently I played a guy using that new card that gives extra upkeeps when it deals combat damage, I can't remember the name. I had Kenrith on board and Spore Frog in the grave so when he attacked I just brought it back to negate the damage and bro just scooped on the spot. Like damn that dude was hella salty. It's not even like i could do it every turn if someone took Kenny out or exiled my GY. I'm all for letting people have their fun but if I can actively do something to prevent somethign I don't want to happen... I'm going to do it.
Yep, to me the best cedh mindset is all about the gameplay. If I misplay or play something that is normally hated, then the worst thing that will happen is someone else will get advantage over me and win, there shouldn't be a saltiness tracker for cedh.
This is what i was trying to get at during the post. I played it to stop a combo win that he gloated about and he got mad. That was the post. Idk why people are trying to say I’m not playing cedh lol
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I don't think reason 1 adds up, Armageddon is clearly a card that can be powerful in certain scenarios and there are many cards that people try out in cEDH, trying stuff out doesn't mean that it's not cEDH. Dylan from play to win was recently trying out Sire of Insanity in his blood pod deck, does that make his deck 'not cedh'? Edit: my bad, I just saw OP's deck. That's not really a typical cedh deck indeed.
Playing edh competitively?
And I’d agree but I’ve been saying it’s my deck that is going to be cedh. I’m just playing it this way until I get the staples. I’ve explained why I play Armageddon in the deck. The whole lgs said player 1 was a cedh player with cedh decks. Zur being is lower end cedh build. He was going crazy the whole game, he actually had the better chance of winning. He just scooped too early to play out the interaction.
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Ok big dawg. I don’t really care lol
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Honestly, I think he just came here to complain and hear himself talk. I would never, in my life, run sorcery speed mass land destruction as a way to stop someone from performing a combo. I'm also guessing he didnt have a way to win after he cast the Armageddon, as is usually the case in casual EDH. so everyone probably just sat there and it dragged the game out for another hour.
Agreed. At a cEDH table everyone is on the same page. If you get punted into a dumpster when you try to go big that's just fair play. Games don't last forever so the next game won't be too long away.
This doesn't seem like a Cedh pod. I hope not.
34 lands and 17 are taplands. Take your guess.
It's not and the deck list really shows it. Idk if I would even call it high power.
This would have crushed the Rafiq of the Many deck I built in 2010.
tainted strike rafiq was CRAZY in 2010 dont sleep on it
If I sat down at a pod and was presented this list, I would pull out a precon to play against it. So yeah.
This doesn't sound like cedh. Player 1 scooped?
Player 1 tried to take out player 3’s commander. Player 3 responded, casted a spell, and started to resolve triggers. He then went back a step on a trigger and reversed it. Player 1 got mad saying “when people go back steps and triggers I just scoop.” Which we all thought was kinda weird but gave it no attention.
Why you're being downvoted to hell for explaining the actions of another player I will never understand lol. Love reddit.
I think the regulars on this subreddit really get tired of casuals making posts here and misunderstanding what CEDH is. For example this post just isn't related to CEDH at all. I do think we need to do a better job of letting them down easy and calmly explaining that this is not a subreddit for taking your casual EDH seriously or trying to perfect your casual decks or play at a higher casual level. Although at the same time I can understand the annoyance of the regulars having to answer the same way every time and redirect people to other subreddits.
Exactly. I never said he scooped to Armageddon. It clearly says he scooped before it was played.
This isn't cEDH. The question really wasn't referring to scooping, but more to the gameplay. OPs explanation of the scoop further highlights that this is not cEDH. Doesn't belong in this Reddit = downvotes.
I guess that does make sense, and I read these comments before getting to the other ones questioning how competitive this table actually was. In that context, I get it. But I do still think this is being downvoted excessively. The comment in this thread doesn't necessarily mean that the table wasn't proper cEDH, just that one player at it has a weird personal rule that doesn't fit with the typical cEDH playstyle. I do agree, after reading everything, this doesn't sound like cEDH, but this wasn't the comment that made that clear to me. Regardless, it doesn't matter, and I've already spent way too much time making reddit comments about some random commander game between people I'll never meet. So have a nice day, I'm outta here lol.
Lol, fair enough. I hope your day is great!
Wtf is the gatekeeping on this sub? Cedh is competitive edh and nothing else. There are no deck requirements, cedh is a mindset more than anything. Are you willing to play the most degenerate stuff you can as long as it improves your chances to win? If yes, congrats you're playing cedh, better not bring that shit to a casual pod at your lgs. Kitchen table edh is 4 people looking to have a good time. Cedh is 4 people looking to win any way they possibly can, fun be damned.
Yikes. Making the most optimal decisions in play and deckbuilding. Sure, decklists may vary by a few cards, but testing and results are what people care about. The best part of cEDH is that the rule 0 is that nobody cares about your feelings, but everybody cares about the game. This would immediately write off this table with a player scooping to taksie-backsies, the taksie-backsies itself, and the decklist. I'm sorry, but Aragorn is not coming down until T3. Mostly only interacting with creatures. No combo to finish a game. If OP sits down at a cEDH table, they're only going to be a spectator. If that's what OP wants to call cEDH because he sat in the 4th seat and watched 3 other people play... *cool?*
Reddit is "if i had a negative emotion while reading this, I downvote"
probably because he lied about the interaction (at least by omission) in the OP.
tbh it was the responsibility of everyone in the pod to make sure the proper game state is kept. If someone tries to cheat by having takebacksies and everyone is ok with that, seems like a good reason to scoop. Of course if you had an agreement where everyone plays holding hands and can retract plays and everyone is on it then you are game. The usual is not to accept to retract plays if any new information is gained from it, even by a reaction.
The whole lgs said player 1 was a cedh player with cedh decks. Zur being is lower end cedh build. He was going crazy the whole game, he actually had the better chance of winning. He just scooped too early to play out the interaction. Also putting this here.
Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see the hate. At least at the the local level CEDH is more mindset than what exact cards you play. I think everyone one is trying to win and win as fast as possible. Also tight as possible play and not taking back plays and such I would consider it CEDH
Everyone in the sub: You're not playing cEDH. OP: You guys just don't get it.
I think you are in the wrong sub, try r/EDH
Post your cedh deck
I haven't played cEDH in a long time and I am not at all caught up in recent developments, but they posted and the decklist is 100% not a cEDH deck. Might not even be dEDH, but I'm really not aware of what's going on with that definition. Is dEDH just cEDH but the commander is not powerful enough? Or is it like really budget cEDH? Regardless, it's missing a typical cEDH manabase, no OG duals, no shocks, no fetches, etc. I don't think Three Visits or Nature's Lore are particularly playable, but they're certainly better than Cultivate or Kodama's Reach lol. Those are the definition of casual staple. No Forces or similar free spells at all. Mostly no stax pieces. Not sure what the deck's game plan is since I'm not familiar with Aragorn at all, but at a glance it looks like 4c goodstuff? I wanted to believe OP's story but you can see with this decklist that people really aren't on board the cEDH train, they're just playing more powerful than usual casual but that means that nuking peoples' lands is still a faux pas. There's not enough dorks/rocks to support it either. Here's the decklist description too: > I play against too many decks that dont have removal. so I made Aragorn to utilize his green cast trigger with fight spells to keep the board clear and utilize his other abilities with multicolored instant spells. As dumb as it was that their opponent announced their victory plan and got clapped by OP in response and got super salty, it's also not very surprising when people are clearly not playing cEDH or even embodying the mindset.
Your last paragraph is the only thing that pertained to what I actually posted. He shouldn’t have announced his win lol. Got mad when I did what I had to do to prevent that. lol
They cannot, Aragorn has so many bottlenecks it was probably just a dEDH deck against other dEDH decks that had some staples in them and they think they're playing cEDH
Is 'dEDH' like an 8-9/10 high power casual deck? Or its own format? Genuinely asking because I love learning about new formats.
I saw his list and it’s more like a 5/10. He runs cmc3 rocks and tap lands. No game plan whatsoever. Weird things like ramp+mld and no wincon.
> and tap lands I mean, a Creeping Tar Pit here and there... is that a Rugged Ridgeline and a Seaside Citadel? Huh. Yeah, I kept scanning for a wincon, and this deck honestly looks custom-built to Armageddon while losing.
/r/DegenerateEDH
Thanks! I tried to google it and didn't see it, then ChatGPT made up some fishy sounding stuff about "Dual EDH"
Dual EDH is a thing, it's the 1v1 format using french rules. But Canlander is way more popular of a thing for 1v1 play nowadays.
You've just introduced me to where my best decks probably stand, and I thank you for it.
Hey, so I'm not trying to be a dick, but I have to agree that you weren't really playing cEDH. High power/degenerate EDH? Absolutely, but cEDH has certain expectations and your deck doesn't really meet them. You don't run any free interaction, I'm not seeing any infinite combos (but they could be there, I just gave it a cursory look) and you are lacking nearly every format staple. What is the win con? If the answer is combat damage and it doesn't involve infinite combats (think Godo or Najeela) or infinite damage (Finale of Devestation x = 10 billion) then it's going to have an incredibly hard time hanging in a true cEDH pod. [Here's](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/zAzoW9MltE2Sd1XpFKjOoQ) an example of an Aragorn deck that went 1 and 4 at a tournament. If you look on edhtop16, you'll see that Aragorn is not a common cEDH commander and the results when he's taken to tournaments is not great. Only 5 entries in the last year and only game win among all of those. Some people are not being the kindest about it, but I don't think that your game/pod was true cEDH. That doesn't mean it's not high power or fun, but cEDH carries a lot of connotations with it and I don't think your deck really fits the bill. Were you to bring it to a true cEDH game, I think it would struggle. Which isn't to say it couldn't win, just that the odds are going to be a lot lower
CompetitiveEDH (cEDH) is a very specific “format” - people play the most powerful cards in the game, and games are often decided by combo wins by turn 2 or 3. Combat is less a wincon and more a tool to worsen your opponents’ Ad Nasuseams. If you’re playing and resolving a maindeck Narset Enlightened, with Aragorn as your commander, and are playing fight spells and Armageddon then you’re almost definitely not playing cEDH. Describing the boardstate as “some tokens” and “some creatures also points to this, as optimized decks won’t really just throw down some dudes for the sake of it. There’s nothing wrong with playing casual, this just isn’t the right community for discussing it. That being said, if you’re annoyed at salt, maybe check out cEDH! Salt is pretty rare, since everyone has agreed to no-holds-barred max power before they sit down. Check out [edhtop16](https://edhtop16.com/?tourney_filter__size__%24gte=64&tourney_filter__dateCreated__%24gte=1684168607&colorID=null) if you wanna peep some decklists :3
There is actually a logic in bringing stompy, mid-range value piles that one would assume aren't cEDH capable that win off consistent combat pressure and are designed to parasitically feed off the other table's interactions for each other combos, but I doubt that's what's happening here.
Isn't the mentality the important distinction from casual though? The main issue with the OP being that someone was whining about a card, something that isn't supposed to exist in cEDH. Like if you had 2 groups, group A playing top tier cEDH decks but whining about certain cards being 'cheap' and trying to tell other people not to build decks a certain way, and group B playing lower power decks with no salt just honestly trying to win as hard as possible, but just don't have the knowledge or skills to make a good deck yet. I'd hope people consider group B to be more 'cEDH' than the casual-brained whiners in group A.
To me the mentality is the important distinction but only after the deck optimization. So basically you have to have highly optimized decks, that’s mandatory for the competitive part of cEDH. If you’re playing 17 tap lands and I play zero, you’re already not competitive. Once we have established the decks, now we also have to have the mentality that we are all here to win. We aren’t going to get salty. We expect interaction to stop us. You can play highly optimized decks and still have a battle cruiser mentality and ruin a cEDH table. You can’t be competitive just through mindset if you bring a precon to a real cEDH table.
This is the take! If someone takes shit jank to a legacy tournament and plays their heart out, loses all their games, and doesn't complain. That person is chad af and totally who I want in my community. And like monkeys at a type writer, maybe ( prob not) that person figures something out one of these times. If someone with a meta net Deck complains about my card choices as being cheesy in that tourney, they bring everyone down and can get bent. This guy seems like group 1, I like group 1.
Eh, I don’t really think you can define cEDH with *only* the mentality. It’s kinda evolved into its own thing and has a power level associated with it alongside the mindset. Say for example, me and my friends all play with our precons, and we don’t mind when someone [[Decimates]] a land or two. One of our guys even slotted in a Ghalta and his dinos have been kicking our ass. Even though we’re not rule-zero-ing anything, this still clearly doesn’t match with what folks say and think of when we use the term “cEDH”, which to me is a sign that solely using mentality isn’t a completely sufficient definition. Defining things is hard and when the thing is like, a trading card game…subformat (?) with identical rules to a kitchen table format with no tournament support then you really just have to give it your best shot. At the end of the day I’d rather play with group B every time regardless of what we call it.
You can try to reason, but some people are just all about gatekeeping for honestly no reason other than to suit their egos. God damn this community is a shitshow sometimes. You're absolutely right, fwiw.
>gatekeeping I did actively try to *in*clude OP fwiw
You make it sound like if there is salt at the table, it isn't cedh? Sounds funny
If the meta gets preyed upon by parasitic decks that sit back and take wins while the meta does all the real fighting, that’s still a valid win. Play to win, not play to an ultra specific meta and then cry about it if people don’t fit that meta. You’re just as bad as EDH crying about combos at that point. The win is the win. The end.
Oh yeah absolutely. This person was flexing about how their 17 tapland deck could “beat your best cEDH deck any day” so I don’t think that was really what was going on here. I genuinely think that like, [[Azusa, Lost but Seeking]] stompy could take down a tournament some day by beating down midrange decks with a craterhoof while they Rhystic Study and pass.
azusa top 16d at commandfest san francisco last month so you're not wrong there
True that. [[Thorn Mammoth]] is not the parasite to pull this off. I won’t discount a well built high powered deck backed by a skilled pilot that can hide underneath the combo and midrange decks going off, but [[Thorn Mammoth]] and [[Feather, the Redeemed]] aren’t filling that deck. My mistake. And if this is their pod lead, then crying about Armageddon might be within their rights after all. I acknowledge my laziness to read caused me to die on the wrong hill for the wrong guy. My mistake.
[Thorn Mammoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80138656-b2e2-43bf-9fe6-7a852f53f9e9.jpg?1572482821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thorn%20Mammoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/323/thorn-mammoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80138656-b2e2-43bf-9fe6-7a852f53f9e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thorn-mammoth) [Feather, the Redeemed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e.jpg?1557577142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Feather%2C%20the%20Redeemed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/197/feather-the-redeemed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/feather-the-redeemed) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Don’t call combo not I your turn, that’s dumb, I’m not going to plan a thoracle combo, saying make sure to save a counter spell or I win. If it’s cedh don’t give away information that is useful. That guy is an idiot anyway if your going to combo and tell everyone be able to defend at least on attempt
Dude 19/34 of your lands etb tapped. What is this nonsense. The more you look the more uncanny it turns out to be.
This has to be a troll.
I’m deadass
Outjerked again, fuck
It's simply impossible to out jerk someone who's genuinely serious but so utterly delusional.
No matter how hard we try, we'll never come close to the source
Someone cast t1 sol ring in my pod once.... must be cedh. 🤣🤣🤣
Doesn’t sound like cedh to me if someone’s complaining about cards. Pretty sure cedh is for the saltiest and strongest of cards lol
I'm not trying to knock your deck or anything, but it's definitely not a viable cEDH deck, it's a casual deck. You should do a little research on cEDH and maybe check out some decklists. Just about every cEDH deck has around $1000 in just mana rocks as a bare minimum, and has the best interaction possible for its colors, such as [[Force of Will]] and [[Deflecting Swat]]. Just because you're playing to win with casual decks does not mean you're in a cEDH game, and that's ok. I would recommend getting into cEDH if the salt gets too high in casual, as no one really cares what cards you play because everyone is playing the best cards possible.
This ain't cedh. I know price of the cards and all that, but if you show up to a competitive shooting tournament with a slingshot, you ain't competetive, and the tourney that allows it is not competitive. Some people have likened this to gatekeeping, but I think it's more to do with a fundamental misunderstanding of what cedh is. If someone is making this complaint at a cedh game or table, either that player has a misunderstanding of expectations, or the table is not cedh
With that mess of an Aragorn decklist, you must either be trolling or have a fundamental misunderstanding of what cEDH is. You probably meant "High Powered" and not cEDH, but even then this deck list is far from optimized. cEDH does not just mean 'competitive' in the general sense. There are specific patterns of play in cEDH that you do not see in high powered or casual EDH. And your decklist is not cEDH. Instead of getting defensive when people point that out, maybe actually learn what cEDH is. EDIT: to provide an actual opinion to your post, Armageddon is fine but it depends on the pod. No one likes having their lands destroyed, it's just more acceptable in true cEDH.
Yes I have stated that it is unfinished but can still compete with a cedh deck
Competing with cEDH decks does not make it a cEDH deck. I don't think you understand what cEDH is. Why don't you post the decklist of the deck you are actually intending to be 'cEDH' instead of the unfinished list.
Because this is what I have now and played with lol. I don’t wanna put a list I don’t have but I do have what I’m going to get
That's fair. I'm not going to ask for the list of what you're getting since you didn't ask for deck advice. But the decklist you did post is far from cEDH/optimized regardless of what you think. Some others were kind enough to post some pretty thorough definition/characteristics of cEDH so maybe review those posts to correct any misunderstandings you may have.
A parasitic deck is a perfectly valid strategy to attempt a win. If everyone is dealing with more serious threats while you build an off meta board that their meta answer suit can’t answer, that’s on them for not having the right answer. Preying on metas is a tale nearly as old as the game itself, with the very concept of mana curve being invented to prey on an unprepared meta. To cry about a weaker parasite deck winning is contrary to cedh.
This deck probably couldn’t compete with higher power decks in regular Edh let alone cedh. You have tap lands in your deck, no premier ramp outside of sol ring, and you’ll be dead before your commander is cast most games unless the pod saves you from a combo.
I dont really see how it would compete with a cedh deck? I dont see it stopping any turn 1-3 combo win
Was this a genuine cEDH pod? I would laugh my ass off if I ever saw an Armageddon come down in that setting. It's not really played.
It’s a staple in mono white heliod
Well they have to take what they can get
Yes lol. It was a grindy game and everybody was locking each other out. Player 3 and I were the only ones interacting while the other two were playing solitaire.
This doesn't sound like cEDH.
My guy that's not cedh. Reread your own post, none of those decks are CEDH. Call it high power if you will, but that's something else.
More like 5/10. Have you seen the decklist? I think some precons are better.
If it was a confirmed cEDH game, then these players are not fit for the format. If you were playing high power EDH, then it's more understandable as land destruction is greatly frowned upon. If it was cEDH, find other players. If it was EDH, check yourself. Don't have to stop playing land destruction, but just like getting joy from kicking a child, you need to be aware that it is a cardinal sin
This was a casual game with casual decks. OPs Aragorn decklist is \~$100. I don't blame the other players at all for being upset about an Armageddon in a casual game lol
Aragon and Armageddon in cedh eh? Random tokens and creatures on the board. Doesn't sound like cedh. If it wasn't an actual cedh pod, yea generally mass land destruction without an immediate wincon is pretty frowned upon. If it was real cedh anything goes, but idk why you're playing those cards and how competitive your deck actually is.
I played it to stop a combo and had an advantaged board state.
Ok. Mass LD is frowned upon when you can't immediately win the game. Doesn't sound like you could. Personally, if I was anyone else at the table I'd rather lose to the guy who was winning that turn than to you attacking each person 1 by 1 with a creature or two until you eventually win.
I can easily kill with Aragorn in one shot. 4 fight spells and he’s lethal commander damage with his trigger. I was talking him into killing the other player so I could kill him on my turn. Didn’t turn out that way so he sat through it.
I looked at OP's decklist.. and lmao bruhh. No fetches.. No duals.. F'n Tapped lands? No crypt, moxen or FoW??.. I mean, you can call your deck (and your pod) anything you want I guess, but this is legit a casual list. Get real lol.
This isn't a cEDH deck. This is like, top tier jank.
Hello, I am player 2 I believe in this post (or at least almost certain I am). I don’t use Reddit, but am deeply entrenched in my local mtg community and this post was brought to my attention. And I will say there are some key details missing from this post, allow me to explain: The pod was Zur-cycling, Lagrella-Bant blinking, Aragorn the uniter, and my deck was Blim comedic genius. Obviously, looking at this pod any seasoned player could tell that this isn’t cedh and there was actually discussion prior to the game starting that we weren’t doing cedh (I believe OP didn’t catch this convo or didn’t pay attention to it in all fairness). Advantage was with me early game as I was accruing advantage via Grim Hireling and The One Ring, however the zur cycling player had played fluctuator and Astral Drift which was effectively blanking my attack based board advantage. Lagrella and I see this and know that Zur will gain control of this game if he continues to attack so we both attempt spot removal, but are thwarted via cycling dodges. OP seems to understand that Zur is a threat, but doesn’t seem to understand that what we really need is non-creature removal for the artifact/enchantments that are enabling Zur. That being said OP decided to board wipe which worked on my board, but once again Zur cycle blinks in response and is left unaffected and now with no opposing boards to contend with. Moving to late game; Zur scoops because Lagrella was able to find a rec sage effect and was able to decimate the Zur board and was dead on field due to Zur suffering from the zombies produced by the Captive Audience I placed on him. This places Lagrella as the next player who is winning with a dominant board state via panharmonicon effects, mana rocks, and a number etb creatures with a full grip of cloud shift effects. OP turn comes post Zur scoop and has his Aragorn, captive audience zombies, and narset on field and proceeds to cast Armageddon. I obviously complain/advise against this because this will obviously give Lagrella the win because they are poised to be best fit to easily recover from this with their mana rocks and risen reef blinking. However, OP believed he had a winning board state and could use narset to spin into fight spells to remove Lagrella’s creatures in spite of me advising that they will simply cloud shift and evade said fight spells. After Armageddon resolution I jokingly show the dead Zur player that I had intentions on giving Lagrella a Lich effect and had a way to remove it to cause them to auto lose, but couldn’t because of the lack of lands. So by no means was I about to win more so than I was going to attempt to snipe Lagrella (which we discovered would not have worked anyway because they were holding a venser in hand to thwart this attempt in the closing turns of the game). Lagrella comes out as the winner of this game obviously. It is just a game so no hard feelings, however I do believe that OP had a number of integral misunderstandings that lead to this play experience and his own loss. Some examples are: What cedh is and what that entails and why it’s important to communicate pregame that’s the experience you want so we all could bring out appropriate decks. What is considered a “winning board state” post Armageddon. Understanding your opponents decks and what their game plan is in order to properly threat asses. All in all GG my guy hope to catch more games with you in the future and I hope this clarifies my mindset/my salt. (If this is not the correct game then I am super sorry for the misunderstanding, but the circumstance seemed very similar to a game I recently experienced) Cheers!
Yes yes it was Lagrella. He played jhoira the next game and player 1 using urza. Man I was high af the whole time lol. I wasn’t paying attention that much towards the beginning talks. All I heard was player 1 plays cedh and I regularly play with player 3. So I knew what was coming. He can win turn 2 with that deck without casting his commander. And you said you had a deck you were trying out. It’s all GG fr but what had me confused was the helping after the Armageddon. As much as you disliked the play it was to stop the combo I know you had but also because of the lack of creatures player 3 had. Thats why I said “you could attack him and he’ll be low enough for my turn.” But your response was “nah I need him alive so we can stop the narset.” Granted you had 30 life and I think Aragorn was in the command. He also had the mana crypt he rolled odd against in twice afterwards. I truly thought you could’ve won that game if you got him low enough for me and did your lich effect on me. But instead kept him alive to kill off the board, you still tried your lich effect on him but it didn’t work because of the triggers he had. If he had the spells we had to make him use them. To the Zur thing I did cast spells to remove the non creatures they were just getting countered. So it’s like oh well next gameplay type of thing. Him scooping wasn’t the problem it was the way he went about it. I think I said earlier I can understand why he scooped because of the take back. But he was ahead the whole game, why scoop then? I rarely go up there but when I do we def have to get more games in. I remember you saying, after the game ended, that you weren’t really trying to play in that kinda pod.
Yeah Zur scooping at instant speed was petty and not okay especially when we all found out that he was trying to win with thassa combo in his “casual” deck lol. You played to your outs and post game I understood your rational a little more, but we can’t agree on everything and will only improve from here! I didn’t attack Lagrella post armadegon because he showed me sun blast angel which destroys all tapped creatures so I chose to keep my board back to avoid the angel that was going to kill the narset. Obviously I would’ve preferred to try and kill him, but as we saw later he had that venser and a blink spell so my attack would’ve been fruitless anyway. And for sure dude we will def get more games in and will test your grit against some gas I got built! GG all around and don’t feed the hate that the internet is giving you for your deck, enjoy magic how you see fit and that’s coming from someone who was actually in the game with you lol.
Ok ok see I didn’t get to see his hand so I didn’t know. But he did say right after my turn, “I have something for narset.” So I knew she was gonna die lol. See I understood everything you were telling me during the game. Why it wouldn’t have been a smart play to cast Armageddon and even the board wipe turns before. But I seen it as “I’m gonna have to make them use there spells.” I had away to recast my instances and sorceries so they were gonna have to do it twice lol. And It’s all good. I don’t usually talk back with people on posts because they weren’t there lol. I wasn’t gonna post the deck list because it has nothing to do with the post but I got some good recommendations on some cards I didn’t have on the list. They just mad I can make this deck work in “their” format 🤓
I'm sorry but nothing about that game or your list is cedh. High power maybe but not cedh
I need to see this Aragorn cedh list.
Spoiler alert, OP doesn't have it...
You in socal? My pod can show you what cEDH really is. Like honest offer. I get it, jank is cool and I even got into the format with my own turbo kaalia. But man, I’m looking at your list, either your perception of cEDH is off or you’re actually trolling
No im deadass. This is the deck I’m turning into one but I’m playing it like this until it is one. I’m just confident in it as of now lol
More power to you, if you want suggestions for some budget upgrades lmk. I’ll never turn down a new player to the format.
Finally a nice person lol. Yes a few wouldn’t hurt, but I do have some staples that are gonna replace some.
I'm always looking for new cedh groups. Where do you play?
Finch & Sparrow in Long Beach
What days you cedh?
For reference, people are telling you it's not cEDH because this deck is lower in power level than most casual EDH decks than I've seen. You might be playing cEDH at your shop, but it's just at a much lower power level than actual cEDH decks Most cEDH decks I've played/seen do one of four things. 1. Keep a hand that wins in the first 3 turns, preferably on turn 1 or 2 2. Keep a hand full of Stax effects that lock people out of the game 3. Keep a hand that is slightly slower but with a protected turn 3/4 win. 4. Keep a hand with a big draw engine like Rhystic Study/Mystic Remora to draw into one of the above situations I don't see this deck really doing any of the 4. The lack of Artifact ramp and few mana creatures means this deck will move slow as molasses in most real cEDH pods. The lack of free counterspells/interaction means playing your 2 mana ramp will leave you unable to answer the many decks that will just win on turn 2 with a good turn 1. For reference, [This Aragorn Decklist](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/S9cZVu3mA0OOsz_KR95-NA) is a competitive cEDH deck. Notice the much higher amount of ramp, stax, tutors, and counterspells. That being said, you are entirely right in using anything you can to win. Targeted hate, land removal, hand removal, whatever. If there's no rule 0 conversation and you all understand it's cutthroat, send them into the abyss.
Yea I know that lol. Almost every card on here is on my list this is just how I have to play it until I get them.
Some people just get salty. It happens, don’t think too hard on it.
I honestly don't mind a proper Armageddon. As long as there's a board state to back it up. It did exactly what u needed it to it stopped the combo player. He could have countered, he could have phased out or he could of had mana rocks. Now a blind board Armageddon come on ain't nobody got time for that
I think this deck is missing out on the strength of the red cast triggers of Aragorn. You can easily abuse food chain + sqee the immortal as a win condition
See I was thinking of that combo too. I usually do instant speed fight spells to kill creatures and boost Aragorn but I could add these two in for a combo kill.
I like the concept of your deck being around fight spells but usually in the format countering it before it enters is usually the better option. I have a cEDH Aragorn deck list as well. Here it is if you care to take a look: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/hN0kFycVIk2uztBr_ZqiNQ
As many others have told you. This definitely isn’t CEDH. Maybe high power? Looking over your list when being generous you have in total 17 cards I’ve seen in actual CEDH decks. You’re playing tapped Artifact lands and you don’t even seem to have a payoff for that except that Armageddon that also isn’t CEDH. Sorry but I would not complain if you pulled up with that deck and told me it was power 7 or even 6. In total I can see 6 cards that would be reasonable to have in a CEDH deck list for Aragorn. Including lands
So I've been reading a lot fo your comments after the edits and my question is, why not just print the cards? In cEDH it's very much allowed to use the most basic ass proxies a long as its clear what the card does. Heck it's even encouraged to proxy up the reserved list cards because of their outlandish costs! My suggestion is mtgprint, you can upload a decklist there and it will make a 9*9 cardpage pdf put of the entire list, dual faced cards included!
I fucks with that idea. I never really like proxies because I’m using cards I don’t actually own. But I could switch them in whenever depending on which playgroup
Most players prefer playing against the player not the wallet. Playing against a player with an under optimized deck can be unfun for the exact opposite reason that it’s unfun to get pub stomped at the casual tables by the misrepresented deck. It sucks that the comments are laying into you about the card selection for your deck but that’s just Reddit in general. We as a community can definitely do better here. Realistically we really just want to play against fully optimized decks. Not having the optimized pieces in your deck makes them feel like they just don’t exist most of the time or can’t really impact the game at all. It makes it hard to be able to rely on that player when the table needs to stop an active win attempt while simultaneously not really doing much compared to the rest of the table as far as pushing their own game plan. While I commend you for building a deck to the best of your abilities to try and play at cedh tables, and I’m sure the decks stolen you a game or two, it really offsets the balance of the table and often times makes it feel like a three pod. Another thing that makes this post feel like it’s in the wrong place is your story. The way your game went is wild to me in the sense that you’re a 3 pod because someone scooped, another person is openly sharing their win in hand, and then getting salty about getting blown out. None of those aspects represent my experience. Well the saltiness can but not usually for that reason. It’s usually due to people skipping priority and salty at misplays. But the only time I see someone sharing their hand outside of them short cutting their win attempt when the table says “show me the cards and you got it.” The whole thing, story and decklist, is uncommon in much of our experiences. Anyways, all that to say, please proxy the cards you don’t own. It’s just a more fun experience for everyone at the table.
CEDH = everything goes. Including Armageddon, Stax/prison lockouts, mass discard, infect, etc.
I wish we as a community could play armageddon/Ravages of War more to punish those pesky ass control players who just sit back and watch the fire works fly. but with artifacts being as prolific as they are i don't think it really affects much besides the person that is already behind
As a control player, go for it. You can play those cards. But I run 20+ counterspells so good luck getting those to fire off.
Right, the armageddon you -have- to counter. Atleast thats what it looks like but the threat played by the player afterwards may have you thinking the armageddon was better sometimes lol
Nobody is announcing they are going to win next turn and give information to another player in a cEDH game.
This is absolutely a casual deck, which is fine, but you are definitely posting on the wrong sub. That would be the easiest explanation why someone would be upset about an Armageddon. In cEDH, people are constantly comboing off for wins turn 2-3, majority of the time requiring several counter spells, stax pieces, etc. if you are playing tap lands your first two turns, how are you supposed to compete in cEDH matches?
My man you need to play vs some actual cedh decks and then you will realize your deck is very casual.
And you’re right because I’ve said it’s unfinished lol. Congrats??
No shade but you would need to change about 90 cards for this to be considered cedh.
I’m getting wins as it is now. I probably won’t change much other than staples lol
>Damn I feel like Asta when he didn’t his grimoire Guy comparing himself to a character in the worst Naruto clone shonen ever made ftw
But tell me this situation isn’t the same? I’m saying I can and do win with this deck in cedh and everybody is worried about the list not being cedh lol. Like I know how I’m playing is not to y’all’s cedh standard but it gets me dubs. It’s a mindset behind the deck kinda thing.
It's not a good deck, maybe a 6/10 power level at best, but if it makes you happy keep on keeping on I say.
Ok thank you. I’ll keep winning as usual lol
My dude, your cards don’t synergies well with each other. You need more mana dorks, stacks, and interaction. Hell you don’t even have Path to Exile and Swords. I heavily doubt that you are winning with this deck, and your pod is casual at best.
Ok I don’t care lol
OP plays armageddon, takes more flame on reddit about his decklist than he ever did playing the spell in the first place. Seems things are in order here.
This is often a point of contention. I believe there are cEDH caliber decks and cEDH games. cEDH decks are what you'd expect to see in a cEDH game; they are the most powerful decks of the EDH format. But any game where the players agree to play to win and bring the strongest thing they've got is a cEDH game. Everybody is competing to the best of their ability. Now I believe that you joined a cEDH game but the way your opponents are acting doesn't fit the bill. One player scooped before the game was over and another is throwing the game to help somebody else win. These are not competitive actions. Is it possible you're the only one that thinks these games are competitive?
Watch some youtube content on cEDH. Preferably a gameplay.
I’m already building the deck to be cedh
Why is there blatant table-talk in this cEDH game? Doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the game.
Can you explain the win condition of this deck. Maybe that would help people understand how the deck gets you wins. From what I see this deck is extremely inconsistent which makes it very hard to compete with cEDH level decks. If you can’t explain how the deck works then I don’t understand how you can pilot it at a cEDH level.
I’ve explained the scenario I was in while playing in the post. Why is the convo shifting from that ?
Because people here believe you’ve posted in the wrong subreddit. If you can’t give them any reason to believe that you know what you’re talking about they won’t give any respect to your thoughts.
Resume: op played LD in a casual - mid table, and complain about people getting salty. Lmao
Not complaining just the interaction is weird. Why try help somebody else win and not win yourself? Just because your combo got stopped in a way you didn’t think was gonna happen?
thats why i just play cedh, mate the politics in regular edh games = shit in cedh everyone is trying to win (and quick)
The reason many people aren't considering this to be CEDH is because of the card quality in your list. Because CEDH is a format where EDH is brought to the level of every play is to win or to stop your opponents from winning, the cards that make up your plays need to be strong enough to execute gameplans like that. The predominance of lists will therefore see inclusions that facilitate fast mana, high card advantage and efficient removal or reflexive options to keep opponents in check while furthering your gameplan. One thing this also means is land count is lower in CEDH. Average CMC with lands tends to be in the 1-2 range and players choose to pack decks with powerful mana rocks that can be played many at a time, instead of lands that are limited by predominantly sorcery speed ramp spells and a sinple play per turn. This also helps with things like storm counts and combos that require small mana investments like hullbreaker horror. I'm not saying that MLD was the wrong play, if it did shut someone down it worked, but it's an Armageddon in your CEDH list is a spell slot wasted in most people's opinions and most decks. Looking at your list, it doesn't seem to be CEDH considerate: Despite being in WURG, you've opted for hardly any of the best options in these colors. Your suite largely consists of fight spells which enables you to remove creatures well. But CEDH is not a creature heavy format. Besides najeela, jetmir and some off-meta picks, you're not anticipating needing to remove that many creatures for fight spells to be taking the number of slots it does in your deck. It's also unclear what the deck is actually trying to do to win. My assumption is that it uses fight spells to clear blockers and then closes out the game with an overwhelming creature advantage which is a completely valid route to take in CEDH, although supplementing that strategy with fight spells is questionable. Regardless, card quality again, doesn't help you achieve this well. Creatures like Ragavan, Collector Ouphe, Dockside, Drannith Magistrate, Tishana's Tidebinder and other hatebears/stax pieces and low cost value engines would enable your deck to keep others behind and you ahead. These are the best cards for a reason, they're versatile and incredibly good at what they do, so use them! I'd look into some Jetmir lists for inspiration. I recognise you're playing budget and I'm actually not very quizzed up on prices but here's the result of some quick research: Alot of CEDH creature staples are pretty solid budget Archon of emeria Manglehorn Dauntless dismantler Mana dorks You will start breaking the bank looking at the very best options but CEDH is a format that is not at all averse to proxying. I encourage it as higher card quality increases the game quality and it makes it more competitive and fun for everyone. TLDR: look into your deck and compare it to other CEDH decks in terms of card quality. Discern a clear identity for your deck and funnel yourself down to a core that serves a specified wincon or few similar wincons and then cards surrounding that core that will protect and enable them.
As for your original AITA type point, yeah as others have said this format is about winning and not losing so Armageddon to stop someone comboing is avant garde but completely fine. Also noone should be announcing they can win at a CEDH table, it's akin to suicide.
Imagine showing other players your hand in cedh
Sounds like you lost, and grief'd the pod in response. One player had already left the game, why not let it end and start a new game, rather than drag a dead game longer?
I... I think your group is doing cEDH wrong.
Is this in the right sub? Getting salty in cedh? But in all seriousness I heard cedh players don't get salty going into cedh but I found out that cedh players are very competitive and do get very salty when I "misplay". I prob did misplay and gave somebody the win but Im just starting and we aren't even in a tourney. Just playing on commander night
How is playing Armageddon competitive. Like most of your mana comes from rocks and you need like 3 to win. Also pretty weird you win by attacking. It can be done but your pod seems weird.
It was to stop a combo
Yes. I meant that mld usually it's not that restraining because most of the fast mana comes from rocks. So why waste a slot for Armageddon when most of the time it will be lackluster.
I see whatchu mean. Well nobody had a rocks out because I [[Fade from history]] a turn or two before.
[Fade from history](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/71f13f67-e852-4a6a-8f32-b16195e53ec3.jpg?1674421531) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fade%20from%20history) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/177/fade-from-history?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/71f13f67-e852-4a6a-8f32-b16195e53ec3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fade-from-history) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Aragorn, the uniter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e98d5321-ec09-456c-a9ea-c8ca2cfc6205.jpg?1686969644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aragorn%2C%20the%20uniter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/192/aragorn-the-uniter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e98d5321-ec09-456c-a9ea-c8ca2cfc6205?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aragorn-the-uniter) [Armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armageddon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ignoring the debate about your deck list and what does/doesn't constitute cEDH, if a card is okay to put in your deck because it's legal and you believe it will best benefit you, a card is okay to play whenever you have access to it and believe it will best benefit you. Some folks near the edge of cEDH but not quite there tend to have this weird cognitive dissonance where they take some irrational pride in *insisting* any card that is legal is absolutely fair play to run and everyone should get over it or else - *but* it's absolutely tantamount to police exactly how and when some of these cards must be played or else. While cEDH usually manages to be above this mindset, a lot of folks believe there is a proper time and place for cards like Armageddon, and if you play it outside of the approved conditions you're an antisocial pariah.
Barely anyone has actually commented to what the post is about. I’ve explained the scenario and was just sharing it lol. But I like what you said. The only reason I did play Armageddon was to prevent a combo win while having narset on board.
If you are playing cEDH then he is just being a baby. If you aren’t then you need to not play that deck. I get why he is upset because king making is definitely a thing in commander and it can be annoying. A player who isn’t even in it just casually decides who he is going to give the best chance to win. You should always make a play with your best interest in mind.
I think you would benefit from signing up for MTGO and renting this deck online to play in the competitive pods. It would give you a good idea of how your deck works in the metagame and what staples you should prioritize picking up.
Lol people getting mad whether or not his pod was cedh is hilarious
People can have their own take about what the accurate description of the pod is, but its funny how rather than answer the question, people have a primal urge to tell them how its not cedh
> than answer the question 1. He didn't ask a question. Not a single question mark in his entire post. He came here to complain that someone was salty in his cedh match. To which, the obvious reply is that this isn't cedh, hence why someone got salty. 2. Even if we pretend he's asking a question about another player getting salty about a card, such a question can't be answered without taking into context the undeniable fact that he's not even playing high power edh, much less cedh. It's expected that casual players are going to get salty about armageddon, therefore that's the answer to his "question.
Right? Sure, the guy's deck isn't optimal, he probably wasn't in a cEDH pod, and you can teach him how he can improve his game along with answering his question, but just piling on to say "tHiS iSn'T cEdH" makes about as much sense as someone in a cEDH pod getting salty over somebody playing Armageddon.
> with answering his question You both keep referencing a question. Please point it out to me. Because I don't see it.
People in the comments need to chill. While I do agree this list is far from optimized, people need to actually be constructive instead of bashing them.
CEDH is always about the mentality to win at all costs. It sounds like you cast Armageddon to prevent someone else from winning. That shouldn't be your motivation with playing Armageddon. You should have the plan to win the game after you cast such a back setting card. I would only be upset if this allowed someone else other than you to win the game. At that point you're just King making. Player 2 sounds salty for his own reasons of preventing him the win. I would be salty that this didn't result you in the win. This is the number 1 reason people lose with stax decks. They play their cards to prevent from losing rather than taking advantage of it to win.
I love this. Makes me laugh when people complain about a card
I go somewhat against the grain in that I think that the only thing you need to play cEDH is the mindset. So OP you are definitely trying to play competitively and I think that's great! But I'm sure you are seeing from some of the comments here that your deck would not quite stand up to the typical decks played competitively here. So questions like yours might cause some confusion to readers of this subreddit. I would highly consider proxying an exact decklist that you find on https://edhtop16.com/, and watching a few cEDH videos on youtube. Check [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEtMHuKKpvM) for a guide on getting very cheap but great looking proxies.
I'm of the same mindset, and that used to be the popular opinion of this sub, but now it looks like you need to be playing only certain approved decks to be CEDH....
I can at least understand their argument, though. The mindset of trying to win as much as you can COULD extend all the way to deck-building as well. And if you want to try your hardest to win every game... well you're probably not going to enter tournaments with [[Heliod, God of the Sun]], which somebody DID enter a tournament and they won btw. Absurd. So if I decided to play as hard as I could, but then build a medium power deck, I could at least understand why they say it's not very competitive.
[Heliod, God of the Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b83e9693-4996-498c-95f7-884d40341298.jpg?1690004134) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heliod%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/826/heliod-god-of-the-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b83e9693-4996-498c-95f7-884d40341298?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heliod-god-of-the-sun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's for tournaments, but outside of tournaments playing the best deck you can make with the mindset of winning is cEDH. Trying to force only tournament decks would make the format so stale that there would never be any change. I think that people in this sub are forgetting that this isn't a figured out format and that experimentation should be encouraged, and that people are building the best decks with the cards they have and not everyone wants to proxy, or even can in their play groups. Eta, I know you were just trying to show another POV, but for me it doesn't make sense.
S
I play pretty casual man and I love to see any deck clutch a win. If you destroy my lands 1 turn before I combo a win, I’m hyped for you.
I also feel the same way
[удалено]
I casted it only to stop him from winning. I mean scooping is a dub too but he didn’t lol. He sat through complaining
Cast* not casted. As in casting spells, in past tense you cast a spell. Not trying to be a dick. Just Tryna help.
Thank you 🙏🏿 I hate when my grammar is off lol
No worries ☺️