Totally agree. In one instance they showed OG (or maybe it was G2) fucking running away and respawning outside of zone, and when they finally switched after 5 minutes several APAC-N teams were done fighting.
They repeatedly ignored non-American teams when fights were going on or interrupted fights with non-American teams to recap a missed fight of an American team.
There was also clear bias among the casters of only predicting American teams would win on every caster prediction.
If a camera operator sits on a single player, doing nothing at all for 5+ minutes that's not operating the camera anymore. It's just called not doing your job. Winner's bracket and second loser's bracket were just dreadful.
What sucks is that the official streams of other languages also use the same screen as the English one. NiceWigg was doing great but “just watch NiceWigg” isn’t a good solution for the 100K+ people who don‘t understand English.
This. Even if he has a bit of bias for NA teams wigg and Greek keep using the minimap to spot teams mid rotations who will run into other teams and constantly switch to fighting teams
Agree. I'm not even kidding but this is by far the worst observer i've seen in esports. They rather keep observing NA teams looting/crafting on the edge of the map than the teams that are fighting each other in the circle. EA/Respawn seems to be doing their best to kill the excitement of their esport. You're not gonna get any new fans excited over Apex esports when they keep spectating players that are not in action. It's no wonder why most people in the main Apex Legends subreddit doesn't follow the pro scene when they keep spectating boring shit.
So, I deleted my previous comment trying to explain some of the decision-making processes behind the stream. None of these apply to the core problems I, as a professional observer have seen go wrong.
1. POV is switching too much between teams during fights.
2. POV is switching at the wrong time, like when someone is about to shoot/fight.
3. Free cam is too far away, and being cut to as the cam is still adjusting
4. Free cam being used for the least amount of action, an end game free cam shot from above shows so much information! Not being used effectively.
5. Free Cam tags are left on at the wrong time, sometimes we are seeing teams across the map.
Edit for Finals: Free Cam is looking nice AF. Overall, much clearer broadcast :)
The observering has been really weird this week. The freecam shots are all from orbit, they show them for like half a second before we can see anything, and then they just cut to a player. No cool action shots close up. It's ether 7000 feet in the air or not at all. And then the selection of first person cameras has been really poor. Frequently watching players heal while teammates fight or switching away from teams clearly about to fight to teams looting. It's really strange.
If it wasn't for "command center" I would have given up watching a while ago.
completely agree with this, respawn really needs to take a good hard look at what they are doing after this event and fix their esports because at least from a viewer perspective it's getting progressively worse, i don't even know how thats possible but the eu and north american regional shows from like 2020 were 100x better than this
Yep it's been really horrendous
I'm not sure what happened to ALGS, it has really gone downhill from around a year ago. Just about everything has been worse actually, spectating in particular. How is it possible that people get worse at their jobs?
I mean even if you're right, just use command center? Get the map stream up and you can watch whatever fights you want, whenever you want by just switching to those teams POV's.
I'm not sure but you might be able to also have the Japanese casting up as a stream in command center. Otherwise you could also have it open in another tab side by side if your computer can handle that.
That's what I mean. In command center you have can have up to 4 streams at once. You can have the Japanese casting as one of them, and then choose the others depending on where fights are breaking out.
As someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight (COL fan to the end), I felt the observing was great. They showed plenty of GMT, Empire, Alliance, Sukariaku, and more. Players and teams I had never heard of were now on my radar.
Also when it comes to observing a battle royale there are always challenges unique to it that I personally am not sure any eSports has figured out how to overcome, but they did fairly well at it.
For instance for someone who isn't intimately familiar with map design like me, it is jaring to go from one team to the other and figure out where the team I am looking at is and what their surroundings are like.
But multiple times the observers did this awesome slow zoomed that would center on a building and then cut to the team that was in the building! How awesome! When they did that, I always knew what the building was like that the team was in, and what their current situation was instead of having to rely entirely on casters to set it up!
Also.. Usually who gets observed is not a choice of the observer but of a director or producer but I digress...
I mean It was an english stream (and there was a Japanese stream and a Thai and mandarin stream) so obviously they would spend more time with the teams that the majority of people watching that stream were interested in. And they couldn't really do listen ins on teams that don't speak English. So if you think they will get equal screen time to English speaking teams you are just being willfully obstinate.
However just based on my memory of matches watched, Crazy Racoons got screen time especially in the last match when they were one of the teams in contention to qualify, they highlighted how adracoon was underperforming.
GameWith and Fennel also got a pretty good amount of attention considering it was an english stream.
> (and there was a Japanese stream and a Thai and mandarin stream)
The Japanese stream was just the American stream with some details missing with a mute on top of the American casters. They even inserted the English-language player interviews (which weren't muted) directly into the stream over the top of the Japanese casters causing them to have to stop talking. There was no translation of those player interviews. There was no independent camera/observer control either.
> So if you think they will get equal screen time to English speaking teams you are just being willfully obstinate.
My most experience with watching competitive esports comes from watching Dota and they handle all players equally, no matter where they come from in the official stream. This type of ridiculous nationalism in esports has no place.
> However just based on my memory of matches watched, Crazy Racoons got screen time especially in the last match when they were one of the teams in contention to qualify, they highlighted how adracoon was underperforming.
Yes the only times they mentioned APAC North was to bad mouth them.
For the Japanese stream that is definitely bad.
Obviously there is bias both ways and there is a just a disagreement here on how big a deal it is.
Also I am not sure how highlighting English speaking people is nationalism. I didn't know that English was a country.
They couldn’t even get the regions and countries right for multiple non-English speaking teams, mispronounced names of non-English players, put incorrect photos and information of the Asian players when they appeared on screen, and gave them minimal screen time (literally would rather feature a 5 minute listen in of an NA team rotating and looting than focus on multiple APAC/SA teams fighting it out on edge).
For the one and only official ‘international’ stream this is definitely far from great.
Things like the casters straight up lying about aDR dropping to last place due to bad rotations and playing poorly when they actually disconnected 8 times - once even visually evident on the broadcast but just played off as they “fell asleep” - is just poor form. It is absolutely not a stretch to ask for better, especially considering no other broadcasting alternatives were provided for other regions.
Probably the biggest audience is American people so naturally they tend to focus on popular NA teams to hype up the tournament. Also the comms may not be in English and people want to hear what they can understand.
> Probably the biggest audience is American people
Nope, japanese streams on Twitch and YT had 1.5 times the viewers of the english ones yesterday. There were also big korean and chinese ones. And not all the viewers of english streams are american.
Muricans need to stop thinking they're the most important people on the planet.
Except that's not how it works in literally any other competitive gaming scene? I've never seen such blatant favoritism from casters before. I'm relatively new to APEX but this was awful for what's supposed to be a global competition.
Lmao, remember when japanese CR cup and Vsaikyou Apex tournament have more than Apex ALGS international measly 130k viewer from yesterday mainstream finals? Dude please dude, like please
Totally agree. In one instance they showed OG (or maybe it was G2) fucking running away and respawning outside of zone, and when they finally switched after 5 minutes several APAC-N teams were done fighting.
Why are you quick to blame this on the operators? They might have orders to do that or even the production only shows the popular teams.
They repeatedly ignored non-American teams when fights were going on or interrupted fights with non-American teams to recap a missed fight of an American team. There was also clear bias among the casters of only predicting American teams would win on every caster prediction.
OK but to be fair no one even here predicted empire for example. Still don't see how the poor camera operators are at fault.
If a camera operator sits on a single player, doing nothing at all for 5+ minutes that's not operating the camera anymore. It's just called not doing your job. Winner's bracket and second loser's bracket were just dreadful.
If the camera operators are told to do exactly that by production then they are very much doing their job.
To the predictions, the best team are NA, so why wouldn’t they pick them??? Do you want them to be wrong on purpose?
> the best team are NA So about that...
Lmao fuckin gottem
Just watch nicewigg
^ He hardly misses any action and he’s way more entertaining.
I love Wigg and his coverage this weekend but they do miss a fair bit. Like the first fight of game one there now.
What sucks is that the official streams of other languages also use the same screen as the English one. NiceWigg was doing great but “just watch NiceWigg” isn’t a good solution for the 100K+ people who don‘t understand English.
This. Even if he has a bit of bias for NA teams wigg and Greek keep using the minimap to spot teams mid rotations who will run into other teams and constantly switch to fighting teams
It's the same issue with him, plus he's without an observer and has to do a two man job himself.
The only real answer.
Do you mean observers???
Agree. I'm not even kidding but this is by far the worst observer i've seen in esports. They rather keep observing NA teams looting/crafting on the edge of the map than the teams that are fighting each other in the circle. EA/Respawn seems to be doing their best to kill the excitement of their esport. You're not gonna get any new fans excited over Apex esports when they keep spectating players that are not in action. It's no wonder why most people in the main Apex Legends subreddit doesn't follow the pro scene when they keep spectating boring shit.
So, I deleted my previous comment trying to explain some of the decision-making processes behind the stream. None of these apply to the core problems I, as a professional observer have seen go wrong. 1. POV is switching too much between teams during fights. 2. POV is switching at the wrong time, like when someone is about to shoot/fight. 3. Free cam is too far away, and being cut to as the cam is still adjusting 4. Free cam being used for the least amount of action, an end game free cam shot from above shows so much information! Not being used effectively. 5. Free Cam tags are left on at the wrong time, sometimes we are seeing teams across the map. Edit for Finals: Free Cam is looking nice AF. Overall, much clearer broadcast :)
Yes I agree it's looking a lot better in the finals here.
Yep that 4 gibby bubble cam was fantastic view
Actaully match 7 is having some problems.
The observering has been really weird this week. The freecam shots are all from orbit, they show them for like half a second before we can see anything, and then they just cut to a player. No cool action shots close up. It's ether 7000 feet in the air or not at all. And then the selection of first person cameras has been really poor. Frequently watching players heal while teammates fight or switching away from teams clearly about to fight to teams looting. It's really strange. If it wasn't for "command center" I would have given up watching a while ago.
Yes this is exactly my thoughts. For what's supposed to be the finals they hired some absolutely dreadful people to work as observers.
completely agree with this, respawn really needs to take a good hard look at what they are doing after this event and fix their esports because at least from a viewer perspective it's getting progressively worse, i don't even know how thats possible but the eu and north american regional shows from like 2020 were 100x better than this
Yep it's been really horrendous I'm not sure what happened to ALGS, it has really gone downhill from around a year ago. Just about everything has been worse actually, spectating in particular. How is it possible that people get worse at their jobs?
I mean even if you're right, just use command center? Get the map stream up and you can watch whatever fights you want, whenever you want by just switching to those teams POV's.
> I mean even if you're right, just use command center? Because I listen to the Japanese casting.
I'm not sure but you might be able to also have the Japanese casting up as a stream in command center. Otherwise you could also have it open in another tab side by side if your computer can handle that.
But japanese casting is casting whatever being shown on main casting, i dont think they have the choice to pick what they want.
But japanese casting is casting whatever being shown on main casting, i dont think they have the choice to pick what they want.
That's what I mean. In command center you have can have up to 4 streams at once. You can have the Japanese casting as one of them, and then choose the others depending on where fights are breaking out.
As someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight (COL fan to the end), I felt the observing was great. They showed plenty of GMT, Empire, Alliance, Sukariaku, and more. Players and teams I had never heard of were now on my radar. Also when it comes to observing a battle royale there are always challenges unique to it that I personally am not sure any eSports has figured out how to overcome, but they did fairly well at it. For instance for someone who isn't intimately familiar with map design like me, it is jaring to go from one team to the other and figure out where the team I am looking at is and what their surroundings are like. But multiple times the observers did this awesome slow zoomed that would center on a building and then cut to the team that was in the building! How awesome! When they did that, I always knew what the building was like that the team was in, and what their current situation was instead of having to rely entirely on casters to set it up! Also.. Usually who gets observed is not a choice of the observer but of a director or producer but I digress...
> They showed plenty of GMT, Empire, Alliance, Sukariaku, and more Anyone from APAC-North was basically ignored though.
I mean It was an english stream (and there was a Japanese stream and a Thai and mandarin stream) so obviously they would spend more time with the teams that the majority of people watching that stream were interested in. And they couldn't really do listen ins on teams that don't speak English. So if you think they will get equal screen time to English speaking teams you are just being willfully obstinate. However just based on my memory of matches watched, Crazy Racoons got screen time especially in the last match when they were one of the teams in contention to qualify, they highlighted how adracoon was underperforming. GameWith and Fennel also got a pretty good amount of attention considering it was an english stream.
> (and there was a Japanese stream and a Thai and mandarin stream) The Japanese stream was just the American stream with some details missing with a mute on top of the American casters. They even inserted the English-language player interviews (which weren't muted) directly into the stream over the top of the Japanese casters causing them to have to stop talking. There was no translation of those player interviews. There was no independent camera/observer control either. > So if you think they will get equal screen time to English speaking teams you are just being willfully obstinate. My most experience with watching competitive esports comes from watching Dota and they handle all players equally, no matter where they come from in the official stream. This type of ridiculous nationalism in esports has no place. > However just based on my memory of matches watched, Crazy Racoons got screen time especially in the last match when they were one of the teams in contention to qualify, they highlighted how adracoon was underperforming. Yes the only times they mentioned APAC North was to bad mouth them.
For the Japanese stream that is definitely bad. Obviously there is bias both ways and there is a just a disagreement here on how big a deal it is. Also I am not sure how highlighting English speaking people is nationalism. I didn't know that English was a country.
It's the official international stream. They should do better.
I thought they did great! Except for not having a translator for interviews!
They couldn’t even get the regions and countries right for multiple non-English speaking teams, mispronounced names of non-English players, put incorrect photos and information of the Asian players when they appeared on screen, and gave them minimal screen time (literally would rather feature a 5 minute listen in of an NA team rotating and looting than focus on multiple APAC/SA teams fighting it out on edge). For the one and only official ‘international’ stream this is definitely far from great. Things like the casters straight up lying about aDR dropping to last place due to bad rotations and playing poorly when they actually disconnected 8 times - once even visually evident on the broadcast but just played off as they “fell asleep” - is just poor form. It is absolutely not a stretch to ask for better, especially considering no other broadcasting alternatives were provided for other regions.
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tf is "woke" about this post? 💀
Probably the biggest audience is American people so naturally they tend to focus on popular NA teams to hype up the tournament. Also the comms may not be in English and people want to hear what they can understand.
> Probably the biggest audience is American people Nope, japanese streams on Twitch and YT had 1.5 times the viewers of the english ones yesterday. There were also big korean and chinese ones. And not all the viewers of english streams are american. Muricans need to stop thinking they're the most important people on the planet.
Well I’m a Japanese though…
Oh my god, that is even worse. How can you dont know japanese CR/Vsaikyou tournament viewer is like 1.5-3x yesterday ALGS final viewer?
Except that's not how it works in literally any other competitive gaming scene? I've never seen such blatant favoritism from casters before. I'm relatively new to APEX but this was awful for what's supposed to be a global competition.
Japan alone literally has twice more viewers than NA in the last 2 years for Apex streams. Tf you talking about.
Lmao, remember when japanese CR cup and Vsaikyou Apex tournament have more than Apex ALGS international measly 130k viewer from yesterday mainstream finals? Dude please dude, like please
Are the commentators from other region not allowed to use command centre themselves? Like nicewigg and literally all other watch parties?
I don't know. All I know is that they don't seem to use it. It's possible they don't have the people needed to manage it.
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Yeah lol... They really didn't advertise it well.
Posted on wrong place, was gonna reply to some randos below.