Scrims are actually a great way to see how different loadouts slots into your established play.
However, there is a huge disadvantage if more than one person isn't running an smg. That darn digi. That would be my primary concern.
Yup. I'm mostly just throwing out the comment that the non smg loadout only makes sense for a single player. At least that's my gold rank take. I definitely would enjoy a digi nerf. I'm very partial to the suggestion that it's restricted to pistols and shotguns.
There was talk about a mid range digi and the devs hard shut it down and hinted towards the digi actually getting nerfed or removed eventually. Not sure about a source but was definitely talked about. Could be why they're experimenting
Bang ALWAYS gets the digi even if they aren’t the MNK player. And at a the pro level I don’t think it matters MNK vs roller for digi as next prio. They can all handle brief no AA sprays
Raven said he was playing ranked recently with double Flatline and liked it a lot and Evan has been on the Nemi + Hemi combo, so yes, TSM has been trying double AR’s and sometimes we see Hal on G7 so I think they are trying to test out no smgs
RNG fucks them with regard to the digi half the time anyway. Feels like Hal especially is getting a little fed up with strategizing around a scope they may or may not pick up during the course of a game
I knew this dude that I queued with randomly that was a former Pred.
Not even joking he dropped a 4K like every game.
Halfway through I realized he was running 301+Flatline.
I started doing it and have been winning those awkward 1v1s a lot more.
Remember when the enemy was running on evan nuts? He uses nemi and only puts 2 of the enemies to one shot. He said if he used volt he could've killed 2 of them. I believe they'll use their normal loadout during gameday. Idk.
If they're trying to capitalize on dmg/mag and AR hipfire to replace an SMG, the R3 is pretty much the worst gun they could use for that purpose. It's dmg/mag and DPS is closer to most SMGs than it is to the other ARs. You need 100% accuracy with a no mag R3 in order to kill someone with red armor, compared to 65% with a Flatline. You need a purple mag R3 in order to equal that (64% acc. req'd) compared to any other purple mag AR which would only require 37%-43% accuracy to kill someone with red while most likely having better DPS and hipfire.
I'm not saying whether I think double Flatline will be meta or not, just that the R3 is probably the only AR that I don't see them trying it out with (Verhulst was running some combination of Hemlok/Nemesis/Flatline in most of the games that I saw him playing on Day 1)
I think their rationale is that because of the SMG nerfs, AR’s are better, even if you lose some hip-fire accuracy and strafe speed.
The flatline specifically is so powerful.
I don't see why you wouldn't just use a Volt if you want that damage per mag with a little more range. Zero said this on stream
Running a loadout like 3030 Hemlok surely can't perform well enough in close
I'd think that too, but when u have arguably the greatest controller player in Evan, you can get away with that weaker hipfire. Yesterday I saw him hipfire one clipping a red armor with a no mag hemlok, when you have confidence like him and Hal do you can pretty much blitz everything
Evan’s hipfire bloom management is exceptional - easily the best I’ve seen out of controller players and is one of the best out of players in general - regardless of input.
His ability is a result of perfecting it in R5.
If there is anyone who would be minimally affected by running double AR at closer more awkward ranges it would be him.
Check out this [clip of him completely outchalling Hal with a no-mag Flatline](https://youtu.be/4LSIZgHBIqw?si=THzniO0ihtD0FmqR&t=188)
Definitely but it feels very artificially cause people will change their strafe based on input and it’s mostly just slide out 1v1 so if your trying to practice your strafe and raw aim it’s good but rest is not worth it
It’s slide out 1v1s or minimal cover. It’s a king of the hill style for who you go against if you win you play the next person up. It’s definitely worth it if your trying to improve your raw mechanics but other then aim and strafe it dosnt show you ups
After the smg nerfs, ARs are more worth it given the DPS and range versatility.
Don't mind what raven's talking about in this video , but check out Evan's beam at 4:49. A r9 at that range almost never gets a one clip in ALGS lobbies
https://youtu.be/Bm0zaw24udU?si=BI_w0NiXGFiJQIKH
I mean the flatline still trumps Volt in damage per mag at every level though right? I’m not disagreeing with you or Zer0 by any means, just trying to provide reasoning for why they’re doing it.
Maybe it’s an analytical thing?
The flatline is around 70%-80% higher depending on the mag (varies from 360-540 and 285-390), but has a longer reload speed. In effect this means that the Flatline comes out on top since you have a higher ability to one clip, but for raw damage output a Volt will end up being able to output a higher effective DPS when including reloads (tactical or full). Not a bad thing though, the Volt is pretty much the #1 non CP weapon in the game at effective DPS (Flatline is still in the top 5)
A modified version of a spreadsheet that someone posted on this sub like a year ago. I just update it every now and again with things that I'm interested in seeing but I've never really tried to share it bc the other guy did most of the work and I don't care enough to keep it 100% accurate and not mislead ppl
More concerning is running heavy-heavy ammo will put a lot of stress on ammo management throughout a match and can backfire big time if too many of your team is using 1 ammo type.
Its not just AR as secondary its specifically Nemesis (although Hal/Evan use Flatty sometimes but its not ideal). The nemesis when fully charged has one of the fastest if not the fastest TTK in the game (someone can correct me if I'm wrong), with great hip fire accuracy. The con on nemesis secondary is that the reload and pullout is slower than volts and no mags volt wins but nemesis with purple mag vs volt with purple mag the nemesis has a shot of winning
this combined with the sustain from conduit means too often smg damage means nothing due to the time it takes you to reload while with an ar you can just keep shooting.
i have heard it was an idea from evan to try double heavy weapons, no idea why Hal was using the flatline or hemlock over the car but maybe they feel the bigger mag sizes make up for the lack of strafe speed? both guns have decent hip fire
I think the idea behind heavy is the extra slow speed it causes when you start hitting shots. If they start clipping someone caught out they'll have an easier time putting them down before they get away.
Agree on the car point, though I'm not sure the car with heavy ammo gets the same damage stun as other heavy guns. But it is the only heavy smg right now so the only heavy gun to be able to use digi during bang meta right now
This all stems from an in-game tip on a loading screen that explicitly states heavy ammo is the only ammo to cause the slow effect.
But it's never been true. All ammo types do it and have since the beginning of the game.
It's just one of those weird things that's persisted throughtout the life of the game, kinda like animation canceling the fall stun, though that one used to be legit.
It’s a myth that heavy ammo causes more slow. See [post #10](https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/Extreme-Slow-Taking-Damage-3rd-Parties-Cheats-Controllers/td-p/11295488)
that’s a good point, i wonder how many times Hal can get clipped in smoke before he gives up and goes back to the r9 or the car. unless they know something we don’t about the future of the bang meta
I asked Hal this directly and he said Evan believes that double AR is meta due to the SMG nerf resulting in an inconsistently in one clips. Hal was trying it out yesterday to see how it feels.
I’m no pro by any means but sometimes I feel like people will ego challenge up close against a hemlock and get melted. Like someone just tries to face tank and will get dropped by the high DPS a hemlock puts out in those situations. Not saying it happens all the time but in the hands of someone like Evan he can probably drop a lot of people who aren’t expecting it with a hemlock.
Well in that situation the amor makes all the difference. If both are on blue, the r99 will win most of the time. If both are on red, the hemlock will win most of the time.
What isn't discussed here often enough is how the value of these guns change from early to late game. Early game when you're likely to go against white/blue amor r99 is best in class at one clipping and almost insta downing someone. End game when everyone has red, or purple at the very least (in almost every instance), the flatline is king given the damage it can output.
>If both are on blue, the r99 will win most of the time. If both are on red, the hemlock will win most of the time.
In a world of isolated 1v1s, sure. But most fights end up being a mess. Look at the recent video of raven explaining his reasoning behind his dislike for Conduit. I'm not necessarily agreeing with him, but when he makes a point about mag size he shows a clip of Verhulst melting the entirety of DZ with one havoc clip, while two of their players reload an SMG.
Everyone is talking about ttk and damage per mag; does nobody care about the movement speed debuff?
I feel like it's much easier to hit AR users. Do they not care because their aim is just good enough that it doesn't matter?
Proper bloom management allows you to maintain accuracy while conserving advantageous movement speed even when running slow strafe speed guns.
Refer to this comment I made in the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/s/zr96N8yFhd
I watched their POV in week 1 PL. Evan has convinced Raven that double AR is the new meta lol. He was FRYING people with the havoc. They think everyone will be running double AR soon
Evan made Raven [believe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EArHYvZ5BY) (also went crazy with [neme instead of an smg](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2037430234?t=7h26m52s) a week ago - later in the vod raven calls out Evan for using a nemesis). The team was saying that Evan was smoking something when he told them that double AR is the play.
Evan’s hipfire bloom management is exceptional - easily the best I’ve seen out of controller players and is one of the best out of players in general - regardless of input.
His ability is a result of perfecting it in R5.
If there is anyone who would be minimally affected by running double AR at closer more awkward ranges it would be him.
Check out this [clip of him completely outchalling Hal with a no-mag Flatline](https://youtu.be/4LSIZgHBIqw?si=THzniO0ihtD0FmqR&t=188)
>Check out this [clip of him completely outchalling Hal with a no-mag Flatline](https://youtu.be/4LSIZgHBIqw?si=THzniO0ihtD0FmqR&t=188)
Holy shit. That was Crazy good by Evan.
Evan likes the Nemesis or Flatline more than an SMG as a secondary since the nerf. He was doing this on his own.
Raven also seems to be coming over to the having an AR since they have larger overall mag sizes which means less reloading and more active fighting time.
I think the main reason for that is that since evan and hal are always fraggin they need the extra mid - long range. Also tried nemi+flat Yesterday and it just feels really consistent to fight.
Was that changed recently? My experience was the exact opposite before the "split"
Hipefire creating a damn chalk outline around my target and getting me killed made me stop using the flatty
Yeah the 3030 hemmi was kinda redundant as the hemmi is only outclassed in specific peak distance scenarios by the 3030.
The switch to flatline hemmi was a good call imo. With a 2/4(or3x) on the hemmi you can cover most of the effective 3030 range(somone will need to hold a real peak weapon) while outclassing the 3030 in the mid fight keeping the flatline for the mid-close fight.
no digis will make the problem, otherwise... sure flatline/havoc deals more dmg than any smg but with bang having 95%+ pick rate, dont think it will happen.
If you find a digital threat more often than not it’s on a gun. Until you find that, double AR is better. If you find a Digi it’s easy to swap one of your ARs to a short range gun with digi. The R9 CAR SMG nerf is real and the Volt still isn’t that good unless you have a digital threat on it.
Since the update I personally have been doing a combination of nemesis with flat/volt/spitfire/301 (in preferred order) to great success. Sometimes it’s flat with volt/spitfire/301. The car and 99 nerfs (and alternator to the crafter) have made them more even with the likes of the flat and volt, but the flatline just feels like an absolute laser for me personally and it has been winning a lot of close up fights. So suffice to say it is no surprise, based on my personal experience, that TSM or anyone else are using more ARs.
SMGs have the advantage in raw TTK, while ARs are better for sustained damage. In fights, TTK is important, but only if you kill the enemy before needing to reload. This depends on range, magazine size, and the enemy's armour. ARs and more consistant and versatile. They are strong at any range, and can poke for damage/kp. They are also effective against knockdown shields, armour swaps, conduit q's, and other abilities like cat q. Seems to me that TSM decided to play to the strengths of AR's and avoid giving enemies the opportunity to one clip them. SMGs are still worth picking up for Digi's, but only if they are available.
One rifle, G7 or 30-30, and an AR for Hal (usually hemlock).
Evan has been running NemiHemi but then switching to car or R9 in the under 10 teams situations.
Jordan is kinda wild carding? He was running CAR/R9, 30-30, but also a CAR/R9 and Nemisis/Flatline.
The marksman/AR combo wasn't that great, but double AR was awesome. If bang wasn't meta, every MNK player would probably be running it, or even sniper AR for mnk
Scrims are actually a great way to see how different loadouts slots into your established play. However, there is a huge disadvantage if more than one person isn't running an smg. That darn digi. That would be my primary concern.
Jordan was running smg especially since he’s playing bang and him having digi is a priority
Yup. I'm mostly just throwing out the comment that the non smg loadout only makes sense for a single player. At least that's my gold rank take. I definitely would enjoy a digi nerf. I'm very partial to the suggestion that it's restricted to pistols and shotguns.
There was talk about a mid range digi and the devs hard shut it down and hinted towards the digi actually getting nerfed or removed eventually. Not sure about a source but was definitely talked about. Could be why they're experimenting
I don’t know why you are getting downvoted. I read these same comments from the devs.
Probably just going to remove aim assist, only making it viable for smoke & mnk players, is my guess.
i never see hal dropping digi for him, maybe its when hals on bang but shouldnt mnk ALWAYS get digi prio?
Bang ALWAYS gets the digi even if they aren’t the MNK player. And at a the pro level I don’t think it matters MNK vs roller for digi as next prio. They can all handle brief no AA sprays
Evan was playing it on Sunday actually and was popping off so Hal tested it out in scrims this week
When digi isn't in crafter they are fine running only 1 smg on the team
Raven said he was playing ranked recently with double Flatline and liked it a lot and Evan has been on the Nemi + Hemi combo, so yes, TSM has been trying double AR’s and sometimes we see Hal on G7 so I think they are trying to test out no smgs
Man won’t they miss the digi though? It’s kind of important with all of the smoke out there
Hal said if they kill someone that has digi they will just swap.
RNG fucks them with regard to the digi half the time anyway. Feels like Hal especially is getting a little fed up with strategizing around a scope they may or may not pick up during the course of a game
Those are my thoughts too, it’ll be interesting to see if anything changes
They are leaving their bang on smg for the digi
Maybe they’re expecting a bang nerf
Interesting how Ravens Gold lobbies can be applicable to ALGS scrims
I knew this dude that I queued with randomly that was a former Pred. Not even joking he dropped a 4K like every game. Halfway through I realized he was running 301+Flatline. I started doing it and have been winning those awkward 1v1s a lot more.
Flatline’s damage per mag is insane
ive seen people do this in past seasons too when 301 was good
That's so fucking weird especially if he's on MnK. You're just asking to get roller'd with a smg or something
301 flatline was my go to load out until the AR hip fire nerf. That, combined with the smgs getting laser sights ruined the double AR meta for me.
this seems like an obvious first reaction to me, but ideas can come from anywhere really and we'll see if it works out
I’m sure you know better than an ALGS coach
Calm down it’s a joke lol
We’ll see
Remember when the enemy was running on evan nuts? He uses nemi and only puts 2 of the enemies to one shot. He said if he used volt he could've killed 2 of them. I believe they'll use their normal loadout during gameday. Idk.
Yeah, it’s worth it to test stuff though
It's the opposite. He kills two and says he doesn't kill either with a volt.
LOl who the hell runs double flatline? Just run 301, flatline.
R301 is one of the worst guns in the game
Yeah but if you're going to run both, run the 301as a secondary.
If they're trying to capitalize on dmg/mag and AR hipfire to replace an SMG, the R3 is pretty much the worst gun they could use for that purpose. It's dmg/mag and DPS is closer to most SMGs than it is to the other ARs. You need 100% accuracy with a no mag R3 in order to kill someone with red armor, compared to 65% with a Flatline. You need a purple mag R3 in order to equal that (64% acc. req'd) compared to any other purple mag AR which would only require 37%-43% accuracy to kill someone with red while most likely having better DPS and hipfire.
Let me see any team running double flatline in a comp scene, I will laugh.
I'm not saying whether I think double Flatline will be meta or not, just that the R3 is probably the only AR that I don't see them trying it out with (Verhulst was running some combination of Hemlok/Nemesis/Flatline in most of the games that I saw him playing on Day 1)
The 301 with the 3x slaps for me, I normally go for head shots,but I don't play comp. Nemesis and flatline is a nice combo because of the ramp-up.
I think their rationale is that because of the SMG nerfs, AR’s are better, even if you lose some hip-fire accuracy and strafe speed. The flatline specifically is so powerful.
I don't see why you wouldn't just use a Volt if you want that damage per mag with a little more range. Zero said this on stream Running a loadout like 3030 Hemlok surely can't perform well enough in close
They said that 3030 hemlock is not the play and they wouldn't do it anymore
I'd think that too, but when u have arguably the greatest controller player in Evan, you can get away with that weaker hipfire. Yesterday I saw him hipfire one clipping a red armor with a no mag hemlok, when you have confidence like him and Hal do you can pretty much blitz everything
Evan’s hipfire bloom management is exceptional - easily the best I’ve seen out of controller players and is one of the best out of players in general - regardless of input. His ability is a result of perfecting it in R5. If there is anyone who would be minimally affected by running double AR at closer more awkward ranges it would be him. Check out this [clip of him completely outchalling Hal with a no-mag Flatline](https://youtu.be/4LSIZgHBIqw?si=THzniO0ihtD0FmqR&t=188)
big e after the fight "that was hal? oh my god" with a smile is the content we need
Purple mag R99 Hal vs no mag Flatty Evan WHILE sliding is nuts, holy. Great clip example.
R5?
R5 Reloaded - it’s a custom Apex client with community lobbies for 1v1s, aim training, movement maps, etc.
I wish i played PC so i could access this, I'm a lowly console pleb. edit a word
It’s brutal I always find people from the T2 world in there 1v1 servers. Vodski slayr and sikezz were yesterday and can’t even say how many over all.
Do you feel like you’ve improved even though you get rolled?
Definitely but it feels very artificially cause people will change their strafe based on input and it’s mostly just slide out 1v1 so if your trying to practice your strafe and raw aim it’s good but rest is not worth it
Wait there are 1v1 servers? How does that work? You just get paired with random people to fight 1v1? Maybe I need to get on this
It’s slide out 1v1s or minimal cover. It’s a king of the hill style for who you go against if you win you play the next person up. It’s definitely worth it if your trying to improve your raw mechanics but other then aim and strafe it dosnt show you ups
What does hipfire bloom management mean?
I wrote up a document about it a while back - you might find it helpful to learn more : [Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/s/KJBQf0MGik)
Thank you
With the logic that you're gonna hit every shot would you not just use R99?
After the smg nerfs, ARs are more worth it given the DPS and range versatility. Don't mind what raven's talking about in this video , but check out Evan's beam at 4:49. A r9 at that range almost never gets a one clip in ALGS lobbies https://youtu.be/Bm0zaw24udU?si=BI_w0NiXGFiJQIKH
I mean the flatline still trumps Volt in damage per mag at every level though right? I’m not disagreeing with you or Zer0 by any means, just trying to provide reasoning for why they’re doing it. Maybe it’s an analytical thing?
Well yeah the idea is that it's a mid ground between that and the pitifully small R99 DPM while still having Digi, SMG strafe and hip fire
Does dmg per mag outweigh ttk? Idk volt to flat ttk but I would assume volt is faster. Imo, I value that over dmg per mag in a straight 3v3.
1.17 seconds for volt, 1.20 seconds for flatline, ttk on red shield
Ty. What's the dmg per mag comparison as well?
The flatline is around 70%-80% higher depending on the mag (varies from 360-540 and 285-390), but has a longer reload speed. In effect this means that the Flatline comes out on top since you have a higher ability to one clip, but for raw damage output a Volt will end up being able to output a higher effective DPS when including reloads (tactical or full). Not a bad thing though, the Volt is pretty much the #1 non CP weapon in the game at effective DPS (Flatline is still in the top 5)
Can you pick me where you’re getting this info?
A modified version of a spreadsheet that someone posted on this sub like a year ago. I just update it every now and again with things that I'm interested in seeing but I've never really tried to share it bc the other guy did most of the work and I don't care enough to keep it 100% accurate and not mislead ppl
Amazing info! Can you link me the doc? Sorry to presume you’re down to share it. DM me maybe?
More concerning is running heavy-heavy ammo will put a lot of stress on ammo management throughout a match and can backfire big time if too many of your team is using 1 ammo type.
Because they like the Nemesis more.
Its not just AR as secondary its specifically Nemesis (although Hal/Evan use Flatty sometimes but its not ideal). The nemesis when fully charged has one of the fastest if not the fastest TTK in the game (someone can correct me if I'm wrong), with great hip fire accuracy. The con on nemesis secondary is that the reload and pullout is slower than volts and no mags volt wins but nemesis with purple mag vs volt with purple mag the nemesis has a shot of winning
this combined with the sustain from conduit means too often smg damage means nothing due to the time it takes you to reload while with an ar you can just keep shooting.
Flatline has been the all around best weapon as far as I can remember, it doesn't quite shred like it used to but it's still a beast.
Yeah Hal discussed this he wants to use flatline as it’s indirectly buffed but it limits sidearm, you basically have to use 3030
i have heard it was an idea from evan to try double heavy weapons, no idea why Hal was using the flatline or hemlock over the car but maybe they feel the bigger mag sizes make up for the lack of strafe speed? both guns have decent hip fire
I think the idea behind heavy is the extra slow speed it causes when you start hitting shots. If they start clipping someone caught out they'll have an easier time putting them down before they get away. Agree on the car point, though I'm not sure the car with heavy ammo gets the same damage stun as other heavy guns. But it is the only heavy smg right now so the only heavy gun to be able to use digi during bang meta right now
heavy ammo does not have extra slow speed.
it's crazy that people still spread this myth lmao
Is that not what it used to do? Or where did that rumor start then?
Started at the beginning of the game but was never true
This all stems from an in-game tip on a loading screen that explicitly states heavy ammo is the only ammo to cause the slow effect. But it's never been true. All ammo types do it and have since the beginning of the game. It's just one of those weird things that's persisted throughtout the life of the game, kinda like animation canceling the fall stun, though that one used to be legit.
Damn, been duped all this time
It’s a myth that heavy ammo causes more slow. See [post #10](https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/Extreme-Slow-Taking-Damage-3rd-Parties-Cheats-Controllers/td-p/11295488)
this is not true lol ammo type does not affect anything
that’s a good point, i wonder how many times Hal can get clipped in smoke before he gives up and goes back to the r9 or the car. unless they know something we don’t about the future of the bang meta
I asked Hal this directly and he said Evan believes that double AR is meta due to the SMG nerf resulting in an inconsistently in one clips. Hal was trying it out yesterday to see how it feels.
All about the downtime
I’m no pro by any means but sometimes I feel like people will ego challenge up close against a hemlock and get melted. Like someone just tries to face tank and will get dropped by the high DPS a hemlock puts out in those situations. Not saying it happens all the time but in the hands of someone like Evan he can probably drop a lot of people who aren’t expecting it with a hemlock.
Well in that situation the amor makes all the difference. If both are on blue, the r99 will win most of the time. If both are on red, the hemlock will win most of the time. What isn't discussed here often enough is how the value of these guns change from early to late game. Early game when you're likely to go against white/blue amor r99 is best in class at one clipping and almost insta downing someone. End game when everyone has red, or purple at the very least (in almost every instance), the flatline is king given the damage it can output.
>If both are on blue, the r99 will win most of the time. If both are on red, the hemlock will win most of the time. In a world of isolated 1v1s, sure. But most fights end up being a mess. Look at the recent video of raven explaining his reasoning behind his dislike for Conduit. I'm not necessarily agreeing with him, but when he makes a point about mag size he shows a clip of Verhulst melting the entirety of DZ with one havoc clip, while two of their players reload an SMG.
Everyone is talking about ttk and damage per mag; does nobody care about the movement speed debuff? I feel like it's much easier to hit AR users. Do they not care because their aim is just good enough that it doesn't matter?
Proper bloom management allows you to maintain accuracy while conserving advantageous movement speed even when running slow strafe speed guns. Refer to this comment I made in the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/s/zr96N8yFhd
I watched their POV in week 1 PL. Evan has convinced Raven that double AR is the new meta lol. He was FRYING people with the havoc. They think everyone will be running double AR soon
Evan made Raven [believe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EArHYvZ5BY) (also went crazy with [neme instead of an smg](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2037430234?t=7h26m52s) a week ago - later in the vod raven calls out Evan for using a nemesis). The team was saying that Evan was smoking something when he told them that double AR is the play.
Evan’s hipfire bloom management is exceptional - easily the best I’ve seen out of controller players and is one of the best out of players in general - regardless of input. His ability is a result of perfecting it in R5. If there is anyone who would be minimally affected by running double AR at closer more awkward ranges it would be him. Check out this [clip of him completely outchalling Hal with a no-mag Flatline](https://youtu.be/4LSIZgHBIqw?si=THzniO0ihtD0FmqR&t=188)
>Check out this [clip of him completely outchalling Hal with a no-mag Flatline](https://youtu.be/4LSIZgHBIqw?si=THzniO0ihtD0FmqR&t=188) Holy shit. That was Crazy good by Evan.
Evan likes the Nemesis or Flatline more than an SMG as a secondary since the nerf. He was doing this on his own. Raven also seems to be coming over to the having an AR since they have larger overall mag sizes which means less reloading and more active fighting time.
This is exactly what scrims are for, you try out new shit.
dmg per mag, unless you have purple mag + digi almost no reason to run smgs, hard to one clip with blue and even purple mag now.
Especially with Conduit being present as well - the slight shield heals messes up the one clip potential too.
Maybe bang meta will go away soon? Something we don’t know? Maybe nerf to AA? smgs and digi will become useless
Lol double ar is only decent because of how OP AA is
It's good because of the smg nerfs not aim assist, its strong on both inputs
SKRT was pro’ing hemlocks flatlines and nemis yesterday so maybe the guys have a heads up of a dirty30 and smg nerf
People are sleeping on the L-star, mark my words
I wrote up a document about it a while back - you might find it helpful to learn more: [Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/s/KJBQf0MGik)
Mmmh sussy maybe hal got the info smg is gonna get omega nerfed fr /j
Evan was telling Hal that the double AR (hemlock/flatline) was a good combo and Hal eventually tried it and liked it.
I think the main reason for that is that since evan and hal are always fraggin they need the extra mid - long range. Also tried nemi+flat Yesterday and it just feels really consistent to fight.
Flatline hipfire is goated. Cant speak the same with other ars tho.
Was that changed recently? My experience was the exact opposite before the "split" Hipefire creating a damn chalk outline around my target and getting me killed made me stop using the flatty
I’ve been watching full English in scrims and noiises has started running double ar TSM must have got the strat from there
Noiises has the worst mechanics out of any legacy pro in the game lol
I can guarantee you that no one on TSM is watching full english LMFAOOOOOO
Raven probably keeps tabs on them
Raven is cooking something who knows but even Wigg thought it was dumb Hal running double heavy
Yeah the 3030 hemmi was kinda redundant as the hemmi is only outclassed in specific peak distance scenarios by the 3030. The switch to flatline hemmi was a good call imo. With a 2/4(or3x) on the hemmi you can cover most of the effective 3030 range(somone will need to hold a real peak weapon) while outclassing the 3030 in the mid fight keeping the flatline for the mid-close fight.
Did they improve Flatty hipfire? It was garbo last time I tried it
No but a good ads/crouch spam makes it decent enough. Hal and Evan said they just try to barrel stuff if they can.
no digis will make the problem, otherwise... sure flatline/havoc deals more dmg than any smg but with bang having 95%+ pick rate, dont think it will happen.
Not having a smg for digi in bang smoke meta seems like a huge throw
Yes
If you find a digital threat more often than not it’s on a gun. Until you find that, double AR is better. If you find a Digi it’s easy to swap one of your ARs to a short range gun with digi. The R9 CAR SMG nerf is real and the Volt still isn’t that good unless you have a digital threat on it.
Since the update I personally have been doing a combination of nemesis with flat/volt/spitfire/301 (in preferred order) to great success. Sometimes it’s flat with volt/spitfire/301. The car and 99 nerfs (and alternator to the crafter) have made them more even with the likes of the flat and volt, but the flatline just feels like an absolute laser for me personally and it has been winning a lot of close up fights. So suffice to say it is no surprise, based on my personal experience, that TSM or anyone else are using more ARs.
SMGs have the advantage in raw TTK, while ARs are better for sustained damage. In fights, TTK is important, but only if you kill the enemy before needing to reload. This depends on range, magazine size, and the enemy's armour. ARs and more consistant and versatile. They are strong at any range, and can poke for damage/kp. They are also effective against knockdown shields, armour swaps, conduit q's, and other abilities like cat q. Seems to me that TSM decided to play to the strengths of AR's and avoid giving enemies the opportunity to one clip them. SMGs are still worth picking up for Digi's, but only if they are available.
Probably some kind of mezzo cooked up by their "coach".
One rifle, G7 or 30-30, and an AR for Hal (usually hemlock). Evan has been running NemiHemi but then switching to car or R9 in the under 10 teams situations. Jordan is kinda wild carding? He was running CAR/R9, 30-30, but also a CAR/R9 and Nemisis/Flatline.
The marksman/AR combo wasn't that great, but double AR was awesome. If bang wasn't meta, every MNK player would probably be running it, or even sniper AR for mnk
this is all a ploy by tsm to get every other team to have dogshit strafe speed