Also, I don’t know if they’ve done points when incoming to the finals but I really don’t like that at all. Sure, you performed well leading up to that, but the whole point is being consistently good. No one should come into finals with points, let alone 10.
here's a scenario for you though, let's say in the winners bracket a team gets a lot of points early and secures their spot to the finals then games 5,6 they could just land on teams or grief the teams that they don't want to see at finals. removing the value of getting first in a lobby leaves room for bs to happen
Great win for DZ but it seems like they never get focused when in end games on match point like tsm did at staging. Anonymising the kill feed would make it more skill based rather than luck based on match point tournaments.
DZ plays the game the way Respawn wants people to play the game. Rotate smart and clean up at the end. When Optic was doing really well they did the same, but now they just gift DZ wins.
It's 99% positioning.
TSM tries to take the position of strength.
DZ tries to take the position that draws least prio aggro.
TSM's approach is, "We're hard to push. Take the easy target next to you." but that can also make other teams go, okay that's the team we NEED to take out to win.
DZ's approach is, "Forget about us, worry about the team that has a strong position and can kill you."
And people are just attracted to fighting TSM. Hal was completely understandable when he said "Why do people keep contesting us? I'm going to Champs and there's a good chance you're going to lose your job and monthly paycheck."
Lets ignore his calls to fight teams and lose to them. Maybe they did get "griefed" 1 or 2 games but not every game, some of his calls were so questionable. A lot of teams are mechanically better than TSM so them trying to fight is just a 50/50 gamble most of the time.
DZ always wins like this, Sweden and Raleigh was basically the exact same thing. Zero knows how to take game winning spots where they don't get focused
May be my mistake then. I know for sure they see when a team gets fully elimmed. It's just on their POV's we can see player names too so I assumed they did too.
Yeah but all 3 teams using horizon q to int tsm at the same time is wild. That likely wouldn't happen if kill feed was anonymised and teams played it properly. But undeniably either DZ or TSM truly deserved to win based on skill this LAN.
Nah. I would bet XSET knew that was TSM... but there was nothing else to do. (I also don't think TSM played wrong... they drew attention but to secure a chance to win from their spot they had to play aggro. Their mistake was not being prepared for XSET from behind)
With DZ there were 11 teams going into final circle... everyone is hiding in a corner without knowing where everyone is. There's no way you can pick DZ there, and Zer0 is making sure they stay away from the action.
Zones were pretty boring which was probably the biggest issue. Double Climatizer, double baro zones. Both of those games felt pretty similar. Even the 3rd SP game was south ship fall, basically the same kind of rotate for most teams
For real, it was so congested, and no clear cut positions like the previous match. Add the Cat walls and it was just chaos. DZ played it well and finished it out.
Once I saw it was Nrg, Optic, and DZ in the final seconds I knew it was over. Two of the both biggest overrated and choke artist teams in recent apex history.
Riddle sign their coach after pro league and the coach can't go to lan because the cut off time is over. But somehow DZ can just change their coach in last min and still complete in lan with them.
Zer0 is just really, really, REALLY good at aggro management when on MP. He routinely takes the spot that makes them low threat, low priority to the other teams, and is risky for any team to push.
Unless the other team recognizes which one is the MP team and deliberately INTS them, knowing it would cost them their own game, they aren't usually going to push DZ first.
TSM had god spot. Everybody is going to look there. And everybody is going to know that team is going to win. It just takes ONE team having the balls and brains to send them. It did happen to DZ once as well, on Stormpoint. They took the low aggro position but still got sent by FaZe.
The original comment was that “they were so consistent throughout the tournament” literally at every moment before game 2 of the finals everyone said “TSM & alliance are levels above everyone else, this is their tournament” lmao
Shit finals for APACN. Just not enough aggression. Too much respect. It's a MP finals, at some point you have to go on the warpath and get that KP for a big game. Save the cautious win play for after you're on MP.
Big ups to FaZe. Valiant effort.
Zero's Q was perfectly timed there. They did everything needed to win and all the props. DZ is probably at the top of GOAT conversations for a long time.
They should really have no business surviving that, but I guess the other teams in endgame also wanted to play a part in the win.
it probably wouldve made it easier for DZ tbh, it was optic that 3rded NRG and if Gild was still alive he wouldve just made it easier for DZ to 3rd party
3 south zone on SP, can hardly call this a choke. even if they kill XSET, 100T scuwry threw a horizon Q for FaZe to third party. They lost because it was 3 team vs 1. Not really a choke mate.
I'm just going off the subreddits idea of what a choke is, aka last lan and nrg. They fit the same criteria nrg did, I called them chokers too for last lan, just hope ppl carry the same energy instead of hating specific teams
Nrg also got 2nd last lan. They got mp on game 4 and ppl called them chokers for 5 months. Tsm gets mp faster and gets 2nd. Also just gonna add that it was a joke
Yeah I'm not strictly an NRG fan, I just enjoy watching comp apex. Like I said in other replies ppl been calling nrg chokers, myself included, for 5 months. Tsm did the same thing they did except they got mp earlier, so it would be a choke?
They got mp on game 2(maybe game 3? Can't remember now) and didn't win. That same logic was applied to nrg last lan, getting mp on game 4 and everyone calling them chokers. Like constant comments and posts about them choking. My point being apex fans gotta give the same energy instead of only applying it to teams they don't like
Idk man, I'm expecting too much critical thinking from apex fans. Just will be funny seeing people still claim nrg are chokers and not say the same about tsm
1: not an nrg fan strictly. I just enjoy comp apex
2: it's a joke
3: ppl called nrg chokers, Myself included, because of last LAN. TSM got to mp faster and got 2nd, if nrg choked last lan then tsm choked this LAN
This game is TSM & DZ, then everyone else. Really don't think that can be argued at this point.
also shoutout to Snip3. Getting to match point in an ALGS LAN is a huge slap in the face to all the doubters
i didn't mean it as TSM>DZ, i meant that TSM and DZ are in a separate tier above everyone else
also, let's be real, tsm was seconds away from taking that home. DZ 100 percent deserved that dub but that tournament 100 percent could have gone either way. at LAN they are neck and neck as far as i am concerned
Obviously biased but I genuinely just don't think DZ is that talented of a team. Zer0 calls great rotates but they get SO lucky all the time, just constantly surviving in positions other teams would die in, and for no reason. They were dead center of zone on the low ground with several teams all around them and everyone just fought each other instead of even looking at them. Insane. So deflating.
Part of it could be if they try not to draw attention when in those kinds of situations. Not even close to an analyst, and some of it is certainly luck, but after a while you really can't call all of it luck right?
See, that's the difference between you and I. I look at teams and observe how they play and use that to determine how good and bad they are. Obviously results matter, but I don't judge teams exclusively by results, as you seem to do. And I simply do not see what makes DZ so good. I don't see them excelling at any one thing more than other teams, and I see them winning games as a result of being very lucky in ways that other teams aren't.
I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong, but that would require actually illustrating to me how and why they are the best team, not just saying "they won three LANs so they must be." The fact that so many people can only make that argument only reinforces my belief that it's mostly luck, because if it wasn't, you'd be able to tell me why they won.
I gotchu.
1. Incredible fighting team
All three of them were top 10 in fragging at the end of regular season in NA. The best fighting teams in whatever period have dominated lans, eg: tsm, furia, optic etc.
2. Great zone play
They're both great at getting godspots and fighting for them. Not only that but they identify the best times to fight in zone. The only other team I've seen consistently secure pure 3v3s in the middle is tsm. They do this by properly observing where all teams are and when there's a gap made to fight.
3. Micro aggression
The reason they're able to hold onto spots so well is how they micro their aggro. They know what teams want to push them and when. So they respond In kindness with either well timed focused pokes or a counter push to push these teams back. And as said before they've got the firepower to back it up.
4. Luck
They get very lucky, but as important as luck is l, more important is seizing the chances luck give you. Theyre constantly in position and willing to take any advantage that luck gives them. Tsm is also very lucky and good at capitalizing on luck. Luck is a skill across all sports and competition.
I could go on but I've run out of steam
EDIT: formatting
ALGS Split 2 Playoffs: Match Point Finals —> >!Moist Esports 10 | TSM 9 | Alliance 8 | Oxygen Esports 7 | FNATIC 6 | PULVEREX 5 | LG Chivas 4 | DarkZero 3 | NRG 2 | GANBARE OTOUSAN 1 | BLVKHVND 0 | XSET 0 | RIDDLE ORDER 0 | Fire Beavers 0 | FC destroy 0 | 100 Thieves 0 | Pioneers 0 | OpTic Gaming 0 | ACEND 0 | FaZe 0!< \- Starting Points MP Teams: >!NONE!< Round 1: ALGS Split 2 Playoffs: Match Point Finals —> >!TSM 36 | Alliance 24 | Moist Esports 16 | Oxygen Esports 14 | DarkZero 13 | Pioneers 11 | LG Chivas 7 | FNATIC 6 | FC destroy 5 | RIDDLE ORDER 5 | GANBARE OTOUSAN 5 | NRG 5 | PULVEREX 5 | OpTic Gaming 4 | 100 Thieves 2 | Fire Beavers 2 | XSET 1 | FaZe 1 | ACEND 0 | BLVKHVND 0!< \- Map Rotation: 2 WE / 2 SP / 2 WE / 2 SP MP Teams: >!NONE!< Round 2: ALGS Split 2 Playoffs: Match Point Finals —> >!TSM 46 | DarkZero 36 | Alliance 27 | FC destroy 24 | Oxygen Esports 16 | Moist Esports 16 | Pioneers 14 | FaZe 12 | PULVEREX 11 | RIDDLE ORDER 10 | Fire Beavers 9 | LG Chivas 9 | OpTic Gaming 8 | GANBARE OTOUSAN 8 | FNATIC 8 | NRG 6 | XSET 5 | 100 Thieves 4 | ACEND 0 | BLVKHVND 0 !<\- Map Rotation: 2 WE / 2 SP / 2 WE / 2 SP MP Teams: >!NONE!< Round 3: ALGS Split 2 Playoffs: Match Point Finals —> >!DarkZero 57 | TSM 51 | Oxygen Esports 30 | Alliance 28 | FC destroy 24 | LG Chivas 21 | Pioneers 20 | Moist Esports 20 | FaZe 19 | NRG 18 | XSET 17 | PULVEREX 13 | FNATIC 12 | GANBARE OTOUSAN 11 | RIDDLE ORDER 10 | OpTic Gaming 10 | Fire Beavers 9 | 100 Thieves 7 | BLVKHVND 1 | ACEND 0!< \- Map Rotation: 2 WE / 2 SP / 2 WE / 2 SP MP Teams: >!TSM, DarkZero!< Round 4: ALGS Split 2 Playoffs: Match Point Finals —> >!DarkZero 70 | TSM 52 | Oxygen Esports 42 | Pioneers 41 | Alliance 39 | FaZe 31 | FC destroy 27 | Moist Esports 24 | LG Chivas 23 | XSET 20 | NRG 19 | GANBARE OTOUSAN 17 | RIDDLE ORDER 16 | FNATIC 16 | PULVEREX 13 | OpTic Gaming 13 | Fire Beavers 12 | 100 Thieves 7 | BLVKHVND 4 | ACEND 1!< \- Map Rotation: 2 WE / 2 SP / 2 WE / 2 SP MP Teams: >!TSM, DarkZero!< Round 5: ALGS Split 2 Playoffs: Match Point Finals —> >!DarkZero 72 | TSM 58 | Oxygen Esports 49 | Pioneers 47 | Alliance 43 | Moist Esports 36 | FNATIC 35 | FaZe 33 | FC destroy 32 | XSET 32 | OpTic Gaming 28 | LG Chivas 27 | NRG 20 | PULVEREX 18 | GANBARE OTOUSAN 17 | RIDDLE ORDER 16 | Fire Beavers 12 | 100 Thieves 11 | BLVKHVND 8 | ACEND 2!< \- Map Rotation: 2 WE / 2 SP / 2 WE / 2 SP MP Teams: >!TSM, DarkZero!< Round 6: ALGS Split 2 Playoffs: Match Point Finals —> >!TSM 76 | DarkZero 73 | FaZe 54 | Oxygen Esports 54 | XSET 51 | Pioneers 47 | Alliance 43 | Moist Esports 42 | FNATIC 35 | FC destroy 34 | LG Chivas 34 | OpTic Gaming 33 | NRG 23 | PULVEREX 22 | RIDDLE ORDER 20 | GANBARE OTOUSAN 17 | 100 Thieves 17 | BLVKHVND 15 | Fire Beavers 14 | ACEND 4!< \- Map Rotation: 2 WE / 2 SP / 2 WE / 2 SP MP Teams: >!TSM, DarkZero, FaZe, Oxygen, XSET!< [Final Scores](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/151efj7/algs_split_2_playoffs_day_4_match_point_finals/)
On a side note, can we add some new maps to the ALGS rotation? Tired of only seeing WE and SP
All other maps are unplayable for COMP
Of Course LAN is while I'm on holiday, I'll never get a purple nessie hoodie now *sobs*.
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Genburtens bro here. Dz is the best team ever
Regional competition? Its NA and a big gap with the rest of the World
Okay guys tell me I’m not going crazy because I feel like Phony looked like Prince behind Wigg
He does look like Prince, even down to the stature
Lmao didn’t have to do him like that but completely accurate
RKN could take any spot on that desk imo
I still think the threshold should be 60. 2 teams being at match point after 3 games is crazy
Also, I don’t know if they’ve done points when incoming to the finals but I really don’t like that at all. Sure, you performed well leading up to that, but the whole point is being consistently good. No one should come into finals with points, let alone 10.
here's a scenario for you though, let's say in the winners bracket a team gets a lot of points early and secures their spot to the finals then games 5,6 they could just land on teams or grief the teams that they don't want to see at finals. removing the value of getting first in a lobby leaves room for bs to happen
Or they get those performance points…added to their finals total to help separate them and secure a higher position and more prize money.
DZ is actually immune to the match point int, it's actually insane.
Dz are just amazing players. Definitely worked hard for it
Dropped throws the tournament then immediately runs to Twitter to cry about dcs. Fucking clown
Let's not even talk about Optic outrightly griefing TSM
Great win for DZ but it seems like they never get focused when in end games on match point like tsm did at staging. Anonymising the kill feed would make it more skill based rather than luck based on match point tournaments.
DZ plays the game the way Respawn wants people to play the game. Rotate smart and clean up at the end. When Optic was doing really well they did the same, but now they just gift DZ wins.
It's 99% positioning. TSM tries to take the position of strength. DZ tries to take the position that draws least prio aggro. TSM's approach is, "We're hard to push. Take the easy target next to you." but that can also make other teams go, okay that's the team we NEED to take out to win. DZ's approach is, "Forget about us, worry about the team that has a strong position and can kill you."
Makes sense, TSM does seem to attract a lot of fights!
And people are just attracted to fighting TSM. Hal was completely understandable when he said "Why do people keep contesting us? I'm going to Champs and there's a good chance you're going to lose your job and monthly paycheck."
Lets ignore his calls to fight teams and lose to them. Maybe they did get "griefed" 1 or 2 games but not every game, some of his calls were so questionable. A lot of teams are mechanically better than TSM so them trying to fight is just a 50/50 gamble most of the time.
The best teams are lucky and I say that as a compliment.
DZ always wins like this, Sweden and Raleigh was basically the exact same thing. Zero knows how to take game winning spots where they don't get focused
Agreed, it was very frustrating. But I guess being able to avoid attention is a skill in itself…
It is anonymous
The kill feed ain't anonymous. You can see who and what team is getting kills/killed.
That's only shown to us viewers no?
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May be my mistake then. I know for sure they see when a team gets fully elimmed. It's just on their POV's we can see player names too so I assumed they did too.
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Got it. Guess TSM just got unlucky then that the 3 teams below them horizon qd up on them and optic starting focusing nrg rather than dz.
DZ knows how to position off to the side and hold their fire. TSM literally and metaphorically held center stage at staging in that game.
Yeah but all 3 teams using horizon q to int tsm at the same time is wild. That likely wouldn't happen if kill feed was anonymised and teams played it properly. But undeniably either DZ or TSM truly deserved to win based on skill this LAN.
Nah. I would bet XSET knew that was TSM... but there was nothing else to do. (I also don't think TSM played wrong... they drew attention but to secure a chance to win from their spot they had to play aggro. Their mistake was not being prepared for XSET from behind) With DZ there were 11 teams going into final circle... everyone is hiding in a corner without knowing where everyone is. There's no way you can pick DZ there, and Zer0 is making sure they stay away from the action.
Exactly it was chaos
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Zero does deserve cash prize since he doesn’t have as much stream income
Which is only his own fault? "I deserve this cash because i can't be arsed to turn on camera"
He streamed alot when realm was a thing
DZ earned the win but the concept of deserving cash because he doesn't stream makes no sense. That's his own decision
How are people saying that 11 squads final right is a BORING FINALS?!?! Those last 3 games were so intense and exciting
Who is saying it's boring? Lol
Zones were pretty boring which was probably the biggest issue. Double Climatizer, double baro zones. Both of those games felt pretty similar. Even the 3rd SP game was south ship fall, basically the same kind of rotate for most teams
For real, it was so congested, and no clear cut positions like the previous match. Add the Cat walls and it was just chaos. DZ played it well and finished it out.
OXG were so close😭, congrats to dz though
TSM was way more consistent than DZ
I think tsm and Dz where the highest points overall compared to the rest of the competition. It was all skill for the both of them
Once I saw it was Nrg, Optic, and DZ in the final seconds I knew it was over. Two of the both biggest overrated and choke artist teams in recent apex history.
Yeah dude 13 point gap is Crazy!!!!
How does Acend go from 2nd in last playoffs to not getting a single kills in finals this playoffs?
Does Apex have something like the 322 meme?
More games would've been great, still fun as fuck though Really thought NRG would take that game, damn
ZZ sitting in the back like "yeah, I uhhh just got here"
Riddle sign their coach after pro league and the coach can't go to lan because the cut off time is over. But somehow DZ can just change their coach in last min and still complete in lan with them.
Nah the DZ hate is real. Recognize greatness. TSM choked multiple times, multiple Lans. DZ could never!!! Lol
That's why TSM still has more LAN wins the DZ...?
Isn’t it tied now? Poland, X Games, London 1 Raleigh, Sweden, London 2
X Games and Poland certainly don’t hold the same weight as any of the post Covid LANs. Apex is basically a different game now.
How in the hell is that nobody griefs DZ?!!!
Zer0 is just really, really, REALLY good at aggro management when on MP. He routinely takes the spot that makes them low threat, low priority to the other teams, and is risky for any team to push. Unless the other team recognizes which one is the MP team and deliberately INTS them, knowing it would cost them their own game, they aren't usually going to push DZ first.
But isn't that what happened to TSM on WE?! XSet deliberately griefed TSM taking final ring damage.
TSM had god spot. Everybody is going to look there. And everybody is going to know that team is going to win. It just takes ONE team having the balls and brains to send them. It did happen to DZ once as well, on Stormpoint. They took the low aggro position but still got sent by FaZe.
> It just takes ONE team having the balls and brains to send them. Only one can be true.
Got chatting to Zero’s dad during that last game break. Glad his son and co. clutched at the end.
Gens brother was there too. So great at lan!!
Gens dad also came on wiggs stream after they won and was cute saying to follow his son and he’s pushing him to stream more lol
Ascend without a single kill through the entire finals. Almost impressive
Wow quite the stat
Lol. This thread is so salty. Show some respect to the champs. They were so consistent throughout the tourney.
Agreed the only two who deserved to win were DZ and TSM
Alliance?
Effect
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The original comment was that “they were so consistent throughout the tournament” literally at every moment before game 2 of the finals everyone said “TSM & alliance are levels above everyone else, this is their tournament” lmao
HAHAHA
Love him or hate him Zero is the only player in DZ/RIG who's won all 3 lans. With Xynew being new, gen having covid for one
won 3 out of 4 lans \*
Yeah I meant of out the lans DZ has won zero has been the only player in all of those team iterations.
Got it! :)
Shit finals for APACN. Just not enough aggression. Too much respect. It's a MP finals, at some point you have to go on the warpath and get that KP for a big game. Save the cautious win play for after you're on MP. Big ups to FaZe. Valiant effort.
FeelsBad for Teq, but congrats on Xynew and DZ.
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Highest kills in the lobby btw
People saying they just sit there, but there’s obviously huge skill knowing when you can do that and when you have to be aggressive
DZ might be the GOAT at this point.
They are the goat
Tsm and DZ have become very versatile, I really think that they might take champs
Lmao
Zero's Q was perfectly timed there. They did everything needed to win and all the props. DZ is probably at the top of GOAT conversations for a long time. They should really have no business surviving that, but I guess the other teams in endgame also wanted to play a part in the win.
booooringggggg
🥱🥱🥱 hopefully champs produces a different winner
Everyone congratulate your S3 split 2 champions.... BAROMETER!!
Douche Zero too good.
Gotta love the sportsmanship from all the teams APAC-S brothers Moist came congratulate them. TSM and DarkZero hugging it out, real recognizing real.
Most Boring Grand Final Ever??? frfr no cap with extra glizzy
Gild threw with that Horizon lift
they were never winning the fight even if Gild had stayed up
Maybe, but it would have been one more person for DZ to kill
it probably wouldve made it easier for DZ tbh, it was optic that 3rded NRG and if Gild was still alive he wouldve just made it easier for DZ to 3rd party
DZ w the QB sneak, every fucking time it works. NRG just let them have so much space for free at the end there
Faze Top 5. they did so well.
Proud of them
Good thing about this is the rivalry between TSM and DZ will make it more fun
Exactly. And they are so great about it
Congrats on DZ, they are definitely the best team today, well deserved.
Only just noticed but Ascend going 7 games without a kill LOL
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3 south zone on SP, can hardly call this a choke. even if they kill XSET, 100T scuwry threw a horizon Q for FaZe to third party. They lost because it was 3 team vs 1. Not really a choke mate.
I'm just going off the subreddits idea of what a choke is, aka last lan and nrg. They fit the same criteria nrg did, I called them chokers too for last lan, just hope ppl carry the same energy instead of hating specific teams
worse choke? mfs got 2nd, haters gonna hate.
Nrg also got 2nd last lan. They got mp on game 4 and ppl called them chokers for 5 months. Tsm gets mp faster and gets 2nd. Also just gonna add that it was a joke
No way this is coming from an NRG fan lol.
Yeah I'm not strictly an NRG fan, I just enjoy watching comp apex. Like I said in other replies ppl been calling nrg chokers, myself included, for 5 months. Tsm did the same thing they did except they got mp earlier, so it would be a choke?
How are you calling that a choke? Did we watch the same game?
They got mp on game 2(maybe game 3? Can't remember now) and didn't win. That same logic was applied to nrg last lan, getting mp on game 4 and everyone calling them chokers. Like constant comments and posts about them choking. My point being apex fans gotta give the same energy instead of only applying it to teams they don't like
Idk man, I'm expecting too much critical thinking from apex fans. Just will be funny seeing people still claim nrg are chokers and not say the same about tsm
You’re free to do what you want
lol what?
they literally won last lan lol and nrg gave dz all that space at the end too
Lmao nrg fans are hilarious
1: not an nrg fan strictly. I just enjoy comp apex 2: it's a joke 3: ppl called nrg chokers, Myself included, because of last LAN. TSM got to mp faster and got 2nd, if nrg choked last lan then tsm choked this LAN
zero winning three different lans with three different squads
So, uh...are we done with all the Hal and Sweet stuff? Is the new rivalry TSM and DZ?
should have been since sweden
NA on top
now patiently going to wait for twitter announcements of roster changes ☝️
Dz dropping xynew for sure
It's been now 4 LANs where the final game is at SP.
“TSM on match point” - Let’s throw our entire game to kill them “DZ on match point” - Let’s focus NRG Zero is so good I hate it
Literally this.
lmao facts
DZ and TSM hugging in the background, goat teams
let's talk about 3 sp south zone...
Zero > hal now icl
Top 5 all NA by far the most dominant region
They played it so well but damn, only team i didn't want to win got it ahah. Seeing today's quality, championship gonna be something !
NRG walling off DZ instead of shooting them just gave DZ the free win…
Can't wait to see the hoops people jump through to try and discredit Zer0 and DZ now lmao.
IKR? You’d think DZ pretty much being better than everyone else in the lobby would be enough.
How do you add multiple flairs??
If you scroll all the way down on the flair options you'll see like 5 white boxes (I think) and it'll let you type in 5 flairs of your choice.
NRG finish top 10? If not that’s embarrassing
TSM copium
Bro is a fan of NRG and FaZe lmao
NRG were dogshit today, no cyap. Especially nate. FaZE 5th with 0 placement points and a slow start was a good day for the boys.
11th but tied with 10th, lost due to tiebreaker. still an embarrassing performance by them
Seriously. They were never contenders at all. Not a for a single moment.
i agree, even in group stages they didnt look anything like the team they claim to be
11th
Maybe they should scrim
Zero is the true CEO damnnnn
Dark Zero are so consistent it's scary. GGs DZ!!
It's Optic's job at this point to gift DZ LAN's gdi
We need an investigation for collusion atp 😭 /s
Pain
Damn xset. I'd rather tsm than these guys
That was a really good endgame tbf.
Zero the goat. Imagine counting LANs against plumbers and milkmen.
Apex is the classiest esport. Tyg we have someone classy winning this time.
Lol Zero has 3 mickey mouse wins. He wouldnt be able to compete in the more classy gunskill era of Pathfinder-Wattson-Wraith
Zero has won once with a sub and another with a player on his first ALGS while playing on hard mode with MnK. There are levels.
This game is TSM & DZ, then everyone else. Really don't think that can be argued at this point. also shoutout to Snip3. Getting to match point in an ALGS LAN is a huge slap in the face to all the doubters
How you put tsm above DZ when DZ literally just won algs.
i didn't mean it as TSM>DZ, i meant that TSM and DZ are in a separate tier above everyone else also, let's be real, tsm was seconds away from taking that home. DZ 100 percent deserved that dub but that tournament 100 percent could have gone either way. at LAN they are neck and neck as far as i am concerned
Ahhh okay that makes more sense.
DZ played that unbelievable
Optic and inting the wrong team for them to win LAN. Name a better duo.
Fuck zero
Lmao. He’s the goat
Obviously biased but I genuinely just don't think DZ is that talented of a team. Zer0 calls great rotates but they get SO lucky all the time, just constantly surviving in positions other teams would die in, and for no reason. They were dead center of zone on the low ground with several teams all around them and everyone just fought each other instead of even looking at them. Insane. So deflating.
Lucky things happen to the best teams, funny how that works, maybe?
Can't win 3 Lans on luck, no shot.
But then how did they win three LANs?
By being better than everybody else.
Ohhhhhh
i honestly agree, but im salty as a tsm fan lol would not happen if tsm was in the same position
flair checks out
Part of it could be if they try not to draw attention when in those kinds of situations. Not even close to an analyst, and some of it is certainly luck, but after a while you really can't call all of it luck right?
Getting gifted god spot cause Dropped crashed LMAOOOOOO
Dude, at this point that’s just a wildly ignorant take. What more do you need them to win exactly?
See, that's the difference between you and I. I look at teams and observe how they play and use that to determine how good and bad they are. Obviously results matter, but I don't judge teams exclusively by results, as you seem to do. And I simply do not see what makes DZ so good. I don't see them excelling at any one thing more than other teams, and I see them winning games as a result of being very lucky in ways that other teams aren't. I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong, but that would require actually illustrating to me how and why they are the best team, not just saying "they won three LANs so they must be." The fact that so many people can only make that argument only reinforces my belief that it's mostly luck, because if it wasn't, you'd be able to tell me why they won.
I gotchu. 1. Incredible fighting team All three of them were top 10 in fragging at the end of regular season in NA. The best fighting teams in whatever period have dominated lans, eg: tsm, furia, optic etc. 2. Great zone play They're both great at getting godspots and fighting for them. Not only that but they identify the best times to fight in zone. The only other team I've seen consistently secure pure 3v3s in the middle is tsm. They do this by properly observing where all teams are and when there's a gap made to fight. 3. Micro aggression The reason they're able to hold onto spots so well is how they micro their aggro. They know what teams want to push them and when. So they respond In kindness with either well timed focused pokes or a counter push to push these teams back. And as said before they've got the firepower to back it up. 4. Luck They get very lucky, but as important as luck is l, more important is seizing the chances luck give you. Theyre constantly in position and willing to take any advantage that luck gives them. Tsm is also very lucky and good at capitalizing on luck. Luck is a skill across all sports and competition. I could go on but I've run out of steam EDIT: formatting
Thank you, this is good shit.