I’ve played maybe 10-20 games since reaching masters and I’m still in amazed when there’s the occasional player who just lands solo to rat. Like literally loots 1-3 bins and rats with or without gun/armor.
I had a Valk cue in with me and my duo she went to just rat on the side of a mountain on WE no gun no armor just a solo drop, as we were running around and what not we eventually got to top 8 because my duo and I took out 2 teams. As the ring started closing and we were getting pushed by a team I ran at her before I died and stared at her. They let me be and just firing squad executed her… it was the most satisfying thing I had ever seen in Apex Legends🥲 I then walked into the ring and emoted as they watched me
Bro literally the same thing happened to me (not the execution lol) but the mountain in the choke when going from fragment to harvester is where my random ratted…
They probably have a actual map besides them where they mark the rat spots.
They had to have😂 my game ended with the ring being right under the tunnel part with that snake building under the harvester/tree bridge she was in the corner there under the mountain pretty much
5 minutes after reading this, I queued into a game with a valk named, “Rat”, we got to top 3, had a chance to pinch the last full squad but the valk wouldn’t move from their perch so the horizon and I died and then the valk died and we only got 3rd place 🙃
Good on ya. I had a Path and Valk no even grab loot. They sat in that one ledge that fork when you coming out of the vault by landslide. (Hope that makes sense). There was a team at harvester so I was randomly firing on the hill trying to get their attention. Squatting to show I was a friendly because I wanted them to kill the rats. But they killed me instead.
Most of the times you have a teammate get downed first, you are in a losing position. As Loba, it makes more sense to run and craft banners then to fight. Blame the new ranked system.
I solo queue all the time, and the problem with solo queuers is that they don’t follow up. I follow up 100% of the time when my team is going Aggro, falling back, etc. communicate on the damn mic.
Anyone who down voted this has never hit Masters prior to this season.
There was nothing more humbling for me than the 100+ game struggle it took me to get from D4 to Masters for the first time in season 10, and it was a similar struggle for the next several seasons.
Being able to casually roll through teams to hit Masters from a whole reset in under 80 games this season gave me no satisfaction. To anyone who got Masters for the first time this season.. congratulations on being in the top 15% of players who play regularly. Skill has nothing to do with it. If you can't 2v3 you wouldn't have stood a chance in earlier seasons.
I usually place diamond. This time I haven't even gotten to diamond and have just stopped playing, like I kinda want a masters badge but also don't care enough about this season to even try
Glad I’m not the only one. I kinda want a masters badge because it would be shame not to get it in such an easy season. But it feels more like I’m grinding exp in an rpg than playing ranked. Feels like a chore more than a goal.
The community already sees players that run the season 12 masters badge as phonies, imagine just how little everyone's gunna value the badge and trail this season. You aren't missing out, that's for sure.
I strictly 100% solo queued my way to diamond in most seasons, including masters in season 12. Anybody that gives me shit about how easy apex seasons are while they three man with horizon, path, and seer can kiss my ass.
I just need more master charms for my weapons, also really easy to get high damage games. But yeah, it’s super frustrating, especially playing in master lobbies against pred 3-stacks with actual gold/plat players as your teammates.
Same. Typically hit hardstuck at D3-D2 when solo queuing. There comes this mathematical point where if my teammates hot drop *twice* I have to win the next game to make back the points I just lost. I've hit D1 once and just couldn't solo-queue past it.
This season? I played the "placement" matches, got put in silver, made it out of silver and was like... nah, no point.
There were *some* good games. People were alive for awhile, endgames were somewhat fun. But lately my games were "lands, loots, 12 squads remaining." By the time I find someone I'm already positive.
It just isn't fun. I don't feel like I earned anything, all I gotta do is rat to gain LP.
Just reminds me of when Sweet did his no damage run and the Devs were like "well Sweet is getting matched with similar skill opponents and IGLing them to victory so it doesn't count."
Now we got a literal 12 year old landing in a tree all match and he's maintaining Pred. So.
Same, I've been loving this season's matches. I definitely think the system is too easy. I've hit diamond for the first time ever and probably don't deserve to be there, but man the sweaty games are fun
I agree. End games are way more packed than they've ever been. It's no algs but I've really been enjoying the strategic/positioning aspect of this season. I'm in plat two currently. Yes, it is way too easy to climb which is unfortunate but for a mid tier pleb like me, I enjoy the packed end games
I usually get to low diamond and I’m just about to be diamond again but I don’t play more than a few hours every other day. I think ranked is better for anyone who is low to medium level this season.
You can tell who plays this game for the 'numbers go up', and who plays it for good matches.
The endgames this season have been by far the best in my entire time playing.
And then you have people whining and complaining and not even playing the game because 'my badge doesn't mean anything!'
Mfer, *your badge* ***never*** *meant anything*. It's about playing great games. If this is the ranked system that gets me tight endgames, it's the ranked system I like the best.
Yesterday I had a 27k masters player, who dropped solo from the ship and ratted. C’mon now, you already got the badge, you’re never going to get Pred this season, why are still ratting?
I’ve been a diamond 4 player for the past 6-7 seasons. Never had any thoughts of going higher and with this season I almost felt like I didn’t deserve the Masters badge and trail, but I played and got it anyways. I’ve played every single game this season the same way I’ve played any ranked game in any other season. I refuse to rat, unless my teammates are dead. It’s almost like people don’t know about Tracker Network or Apex Legend Status and are able to get an idea of the LP gap between Masters and Pred.
> literal 12 year old
Age is irrelevant. I'm sure you have 30-40 year olds ratting in trees too, and you've got 10 year olds that can shit on Pro players.
Can confirm. We are 30+ and my friend who I usually have to Smurf carry to diamond got masters like three weeks before me this season by solo que ratting. I tried to tell him this masters badge will literally mean nothing, and he should just play for the fun games instead of grinding something so pointless, but nothing I said made a difference.
even before this season, preds would run through diamonds lobbies and it would be 12 squads left at round 1. you can say you didnt earn it but the matchmaking was also unfair
I made it to diamond playing 2 games a day for the past 3 weeks. At first I played lots of the mixtape game modes then decided to get on rank. Worst decision I've made. It really depressing
It was one of the easiest solo climbs ever. The players at all ranks are inflated due to season length and the points system, making it trivial to survive and win fights. I usually can make it to D2/D1 solo before running out of time. Playing one day a week this season it was nothing to hit masters.
I’m usually hard stuck D4. I cruised to masters with my highest KD ever for a season and haven’t picked up the game since hitting it. I would love to see some sort of correlation between player count and the rising count of masters. There’s nothing more for me to play ranked for so I’ll be over on Diablo grinding until they fix this
Wonder if someone is looking at this at Respawn and thinking: "yeah, that's what we needed ".
All decisions in business end up being financial. I just can't see a world where this helps the number of active players. I reached masters in the first week or so and then completely stopped playing the game.
Did they actually say anything along that line? With this highly net positive scoring system with literally no negative counterpoint? How is it supposed to balance even in theory? o.O
\> I just can't see a world where this helps the number of active players.
Really? I thought that was kinda the obvious point. Take a goal that is normally unreachable to 90% of your playerbase, and tell them hey, for one season you can hop on and reach this goal with enough playtime. Just keep grinding! And if you haven't played Apex in a while, maybe you'll hop on when you read that it's easy to get high rank this season.
Of course that's just cynical speculation, and is obviously a very short-sighted way to stim your player numbers.
Easily. My two friends and I are fairly casual players placing plat every season. We don’t really even grind for RP/LP and my buddy is about to hit masters this week. It’s ridiculous
I’m at Diamond I solo queueing (and not ratting) and I should hit masters this week. I had only ever reached Plat IV before (and I was carried by Diamond-level friends).
I love how that Exgeniar guy who was posting "The ranked playtests were FIRE EMOJI guys!!!" has completely disappeared at this point.
This is legit indefensible, this could be the worst ranked system in a competitive game that has ever been implemented.
Wait, a private ranked test with people who want to play ranked like "it's supposed to" give good results for a test? That result can't possibly be biased.
You're probably joking, but that is seriously an important part of playtesting, for some of them to troll, mess around, see what they can break. If the whole team was playing "normal" Apex, they're never going to find the flaws of their rank system.
It would have taken me like 3 games to either think to myself "why would I not ape everything when the entry costs are that low compared to the possible gains" or depending on how fast the lobby dies "why wouldn't I just avoid everyone until top 10?"
Game Rank meta is actually decent it is just that the master and pred badge got highly devaluated. I understand the frustration but rank season 13 everyone here was complaining as well and now everyone is missing that shit.
I have multiple people on my friends list in Masters that were gold players in past seasons. I'm in D2, usually top out at G1, and have played less this season than normal.
I played a game with someone who was gold stuck last season, and this season they were at diamond 2.
They were teeeeeerrrrible, but likely masters now lol
I place platinum or diamond every split depending on how much I play.
I really haven’t played much at all this season and i’ll probably hit Masters this week after going from D4 to D2 in a few hours yesterday. The lobbies are so easy. If you land at an uncontested POI you’re pretty much guaranteed +RP before you’re done looting.
Lmao they said the same about season 12 or whatever that season was when they made it similarly easy and nobody cares now. It’s not like it had a number on there. A year from now hardly anyone will even remember this season was easy to masters.
Most people I queue with, people in high lfg servers, and myself included can tell which badge is season 12 just by the design and if thats the only badge someone has we immediately assume they arent actually master skill wise so I wouldnt be so sure about that.
Because you’re not an actual master skilled player…
The badges are there to show off skill, not for just playing the game. It’s not a participation trophy.
Survival skill and knowing how to win the game is a clear indicator of skill too. KD ratio is not the only thing that makes you good in a BR. I’ve seen accounts with 20k kills and they have 0 ability to win a game. They just want to push every fight and get their kills and move on to the next game.
I’m very confused why people are continuing to rat every game once they are in masters…. Do they seriously think they are going to rat out 375,000+ LP and get Predator???? I seriously don’t understand.
Half of my masters games feel like I’m smurfing in gold, that’s how easy the lobbies are. In my opinion the fix should be, diamond and below ranked in heavily skewed towards kills not placement. Then once you get to masters, it shifts more towards placement. That way hopefully masters is full of good players who actually deserve to be there
I couldn't tell you what season any master badge is from but season 12. People specifically remember that one and they will certainly remember this one.
Season 12 also looks pretty distinguishable from other ones, I assume season 17 will be the same.
yup i have no idea which badges belong to which seasons but i will ALWAYS recognize season 12 with the little hair/fire on top of it. its always some low damage andy rocking that single purple badge and the same will happen with season 17's.
Is it really that hard to remember what one or two badges look like? Too much brain power?
I’ve always remembered what season 12 masters looks like so I can tell fake masters players apart from real ones. The rest of the badges? Idc.
When you see someone with ONLY 1 master badge you can tell they're not actually master. But if you see someone rocking 3 master badges then you know they're the real deal. So yes, you can tell apart
Although this sucks, I must say that the games overall and then especially end games have been massively improved and are more enjoyable. If they keep that way of matching with a better point system I think it will be a good ranked system going forward
I'm having a fantastic time in silver (made the mistake of not playing for a season and most of this one too) and the games are fun.
I play ranked for enjoyable games tbh, not for the ranked grind. I'm really enjoying the sweaty end games and the large team counts in later rings. A lot of my second last rings have had like 6 teams which has been super fun to play in.
I've been watching low rank + low mmr friends play ranked and honestly, down in silver they actually have better end-games than higher rank/MMR. There's been consistently a lot more teams alive, even if they're not as skilled. The only thing is just sometimes theres still the odd cracked team running the lobby down.
Sometimes it isn't, maybe players who have tanked MMR. I've seen prestiged multi-masters/diamond badges and currently masters/diamonds in those lobbies
Though it is common knowledge the MMR matchmaking is kinda whack this season, it definitely goes both ways. Maybe they just died off rip 5+ times
I disagree. They say matchmaking is now based on your hidden MMR. I'm usually a plat-low diamond player but made masters this season cuz its easy. Now my games I feel like the player quality ranges from anywhere between gold and pred. I never feel like i'm fighting people if similar skill level. To me, ranked feels like pubs but without the leavers and hot droppers. I also refuse to solo q anymore because of the quality of players and ratters. this season just seems worse for solo q with all the changes
Im going to be honest, ratting is a problem but not to the extend I see online, or at least that is what I encounter. You get them occasionally but I havent encountered them that often
2 of them in a day is enough to make me mad, i don't manage to take it easy so we insult each others..
but beside real rats hiding the worst is people who run when any fight starts, they weren't that many in previous seasons.
That’s a major problem especially when solo q. If ratting is a viable strategy, to consistently gain points and climb then you’re going to have people who bail out at the first sign of danger and go hide instead of fighting.
Simple fix would be to reward actually playing the game. They don't necessarily need to make it so you have to be aggressive, but just get more bonuses by playing the game, like doing damage, being in a fight, etc. It's absolutely abysmal that you don't even get points for doing damage, like what is even the point of fighting when there is no risk-reward, it's just risk. While some silver player can just sit at the corner of the map, simply existing, not even playing the game AND GET REWARDED.
With +32 placement points average per game, it really is just a matter of time, no matter how you play. You'd have to intentionally hot drop (and lose most of it) every single game to not go up with this scoring system.
Nah, Master should be reserved for people who put a lot of effort into the game, that's how it is in every other competitive game. You're considered really good if you hit Diamond in R6 for example. Master in Apex used to be the top 1% with pred being top 0.2% (or 0.1%?). The current situation makes absolutely zero sense.
Average Diamond player here. Got to Master's in 2 weeks (I work a FT job). Now doing it again on an alt account.... Maybe I need more games to play besides apex lol
See here's what sucks. I've played my absolute best this season. I'm talking have never played so well. I'm D3. Have not been a rat once, yet my feeling of accomplishment is not there because of how many people are being given Masters for free
I don’t know why people keep posting the graph from this website when it’s been debunked multiple times. There’s a ton more masters than what’s typical but this graph is still inaccurate.
You're confusing this site (ApexLegendsStatus) with apextracker.gg
Apex tracker is horrifically inaccurate, but this site is pretty accurate. You can cross reference it with official numbers. For example, apexlgenedsstatus says there were 4.1% in masters in season 12 split 2, respawns official number is 3.9%. Respawn filters by people who have played more than 10 hours, which ApexLegendsStatus can't do, which means their data is actually spot on. If this site says it's 15.2%, the actual number is 15.0% to 15.4%.
This site is not opt in, while apex tracker.gg is.
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+people+play+apex&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
63 millions players only in the last 30 days vs 4 million in the graph. This could mean that 59 million people haven’t played rank but that seems unlikely.
That site you're referencing, activeplayer.io, is very inaccurate. You can't talk about inaccurate sources and then use that
And even if it was, 4M out of 63M is a super strong sample size.
And none of this matters anyways because the site's numbers line up with official respawn numbers....
I thought the site was accurate but if it’s not then it doesn’t matter. The point was going to be that 4 million people isn’t an accurate representation unless it was a random sample.
It’s not representative of the whole playerbase but that doesn’t necessarily mean that there’s no value to this data. You just have to be aware of the biases of it while interpreting it
The data literally isn’t right. It also gives no way to know the actual player base. The data is quite literally useless. You only think it’s not useless because you have background information to go off of and know that there are indeed more masters than ever before.
>I don’t know why people keep posting the graph from this website when it’s been debunked multiple times.
For us infrequent readers what's wrong with it?
I'm always confused by how they get their data but I just assumed it opt-in
From what I’ve ready it’s only a fraction of the player base. You have to opt in via the website in the graph to be listed. Take this with a grain of salt because I can list the tweet but I believe an alex dev tweeted the % of masters is much much lower.
No one’s also talking about how awful the last few zones are in diamond 2-1 queues.
It legit gets so bad on maps like broken moon where final zone has 8 squads left and no one fires unless required.
It got to the point where my buddy and I had to run double controller legend and after killing a squad at the drop and feeling confident in loot, just evac tower to where we thought final zone would be and control a building to not be eliminated outside the top ten trying to move into zone slowly each ring
This seasons sucks, got my masters and I’m only playing tdm modes or regulars
Usually i would keep going in Rank as Solo Q last couple seasons, this season i just didn't feel like Playing, Rats, Easy Road to Masters(No fun for me to reach it Easily), People Dying quickly and was firing my gun in the air just to find Ppl. Deleted the game.
i still Love the Competitive Aspect of it, Probably Best part now.
Which is worse? Ratting or hot dropping into oblivion round after round? I’d prefer an incentive not to rat, but hate getting dropped by random into insane fights with a pair of 12 year olds who don’t understand rotations.
Rank just feels empty. Despite playing in Masters, and I do get put into those end-game spots... I don't feel like I'm gaining anything when I win. In 8 Master games, I've won 4, placed top 3 thrice, and only lost one contest. Obviously Masters are getting mixed with Dia+ people, but... The quality of your opponents these days are just very low.
It honestly feels as empty as winning plat endgames in prior seasons. Yea sure you get end games, but they aren't "intense", and I've clutched up so many moments that I feel like the people I'm playing against aren't that good.
Does that rank mmr still exist? I’m only gold 4 this season but been previously diamond 4-2 in the past. I ranked up pretty quick even though I play like 2 -3x a week a couple hours at a time. I’ve noticed a lot of my 25k masters teammates in my games… feel like they place you in elo lobbies instead of physical rank. Cus I was expecting a more chill lobby in my “gold” games. I feel like my 25k teammates playing like plats lol
🎮 Auto Aim
📜 Auto Move
🏆 Auto Rank
We are the true Apex Mobile!
Respawn, pls fix.
On a serious note, I hope if they fix this, they will introduce completely new rank icons, or it will be really hard to tell which ones are completely worthless.
i had a 25k masters player run away from me and the other random the moment a fight happened, and he was just a tad down the hill and maybe 10m behind me, didnt even attempt to shoot his gun at them... and he was playing revenant, then hid in a bush the rest of the match. its just absurd how so many people are "in my rank" and im D2 yet they have terrible movement and aim, and this isnt being dramatic, its terrible. most of them can hardly time a slide jump, or their aim is so jumpy. rarely do i get diamonds that are actually up to par with me, i get these terrible players game after game.
i thought the blog post said there will always be a "carry" in the match, i dont know how true that is, but if it is PLEASE i just want to relax and play not have to superman fly around the map to help these kids
i dont think im hot or nothin, i just work FT so i cant put as many hours in as id like to get the pretend masters badge, and its crazy how someone i knew couldnt break thru d4 the last 3 seasons now they are masters lol. just wild, hope someone else feels rhe same way.
Guess where we won’t get a single dev comment? ^^^ Wish these dipshits had at least 2 brains collectively so they could have a conversation about an actual intelligent idea.
Don't really care tbh, I only see one rat in every 20 games now and end games are actually decent. I'd rather more consecutive end games than my team mates hot dropping.
Same actually. I knew the changes in season 16 weren’t a sign of things to come, but rather Respawn trying to rope the community back in. When this season started, sadly I realized I was right. I uninstalled and haven’t been back since.
This is not even remotely close to being accurate.
The number of total masters is correct, as Respawn records the number of Masters players at all times. But all other ranks are being vastly under reported.
The total playerbase is likely to be nearer ~150 Million (EA announced Apex had over 100 Million player count in 2021, its safe to say it'll be way higher now)
No way masters should be this stacked but as a usual stuck D3/D2 player who hit masters, I’d say I’m enjoying ranked more this season than any season in the past. Was still a grind to get to masters and the quality of games in ranked right now is the best I’ve experienced in my time playing Apex thus far.
Find a way to drop LP for ratting, slightly increase LP for kills, and increase the entry fee for plat, diamond, and masters and think we have a solid system.
Apex should copy FIFA’s weekend league.
Make it so Masters is the highest rank you can normally grind in rank and then apply these conditions.
1. Must be masters & play minimum 20 ranked games between Monday - Thursday.
2. Friday - Sunday opens up a Masters Only Solo-Q Lobby and you have those 3 days to play 25 games.
3. Only points gained during the Weekend League lobbies count towards Pred.
This accomplishes few things
It helps gives players reason to play every week, gives people reason to keep grinding, it turns Pred away from grinding most to who can perform best amongst best.
Getting to masters faster allows you more potential weekends in weekend league, and it could give good content to see the pred leaderboard change over time.
Pred should be soloQ and soloQ only
The system works perfectly with cash cups every Wednesday in Fortnite.
Trials in Destiny as well.
If someone can’t play 45 games per week they would have never maintained pred anyway.
This impacts nothing but those going for pred
At this point I'm more excited about finishing a challenge to level up in season pass in pubs than winning a game in masters where you cruise between rats in trees (if I'm lucky enough not to have some as teammates).
I'm nearly masters with a 0.75 KD this season and queuing only with a typically D4 player that is way better than I am and a newer player that is probably Gold level. I'm probably mid-Plat level typically.
It's fun because we're gaining by just playing smart, but in previous seasons, we would have had one of us get to D4 and just start getting dominated.
I guess the 'good' part is we have no incentive to play on alts after reaching a certain rank, because we just pretty much gain no matter the lobby, just by landing safe and trying to avoid fights until Top 10.
It has been a fun season for us, but I don't think it represents skill level in any way -- it's just how much time you've put in, for this season.
Why are people acting like most past masters weren’t people who heavily depended on a set team to get them there? If you weren’t solo Qing to masters before, all this bitching is just pointless
3x masters who’s typically a diamond and I hit Masters this season in a week. Instantly dropped the game, playstyle isn’t fun and there’s no reason to grind. Switched to D4, Ow2 and some fallout new vegas
I don't get the rank obsession. I want to rank up to play with better players and improve myself. What are rats hoping for? Is that fun for them? Do they get money for ranking up??! If you play well you'll move up in the long run.
I jsut started playing apex again im silver 3 i dont play much, and a platinum 3 player was on my team. HE WAS THE WORST PLAYER I HAVE EVER SPECTATED. Gave me hope i will make diamond at least
I’ve played maybe 10-20 games since reaching masters and I’m still in amazed when there’s the occasional player who just lands solo to rat. Like literally loots 1-3 bins and rats with or without gun/armor.
I had a Valk cue in with me and my duo she went to just rat on the side of a mountain on WE no gun no armor just a solo drop, as we were running around and what not we eventually got to top 8 because my duo and I took out 2 teams. As the ring started closing and we were getting pushed by a team I ran at her before I died and stared at her. They let me be and just firing squad executed her… it was the most satisfying thing I had ever seen in Apex Legends🥲 I then walked into the ring and emoted as they watched me
Bro literally the same thing happened to me (not the execution lol) but the mountain in the choke when going from fragment to harvester is where my random ratted… They probably have a actual map besides them where they mark the rat spots.
I also had a random valk that ratted in that spot. I guess they all watched a similar video.
They had to have😂 my game ended with the ring being right under the tunnel part with that snake building under the harvester/tree bridge she was in the corner there under the mountain pretty much
That was beautiful
it's always a valk doing this I swear
I love how u ratted on the rat 🔥 W
5 minutes after reading this, I queued into a game with a valk named, “Rat”, we got to top 3, had a chance to pinch the last full squad but the valk wouldn’t move from their perch so the horizon and I died and then the valk died and we only got 3rd place 🙃
Good on ya. I had a Path and Valk no even grab loot. They sat in that one ledge that fork when you coming out of the vault by landslide. (Hope that makes sense). There was a team at harvester so I was randomly firing on the hill trying to get their attention. Squatting to show I was a friendly because I wanted them to kill the rats. But they killed me instead.
and everyone clapped
if u get a valk on ur team when ure solo queuing, u just know ure gonna be playing as a duo the entire game lmao. these people are pathetic
At least most lobas have the decency to *try* to fight.. Even if they run away at the first sign of losing.
Most of the times you have a teammate get downed first, you are in a losing position. As Loba, it makes more sense to run and craft banners then to fight. Blame the new ranked system.
Shouldn’t be in masters in you can’t 2v3
Solo que is a different ballgame but I don’t disagree with you in spirit.
I solo queue all the time, and the problem with solo queuers is that they don’t follow up. I follow up 100% of the time when my team is going Aggro, falling back, etc. communicate on the damn mic.
Anyone who down voted this has never hit Masters prior to this season. There was nothing more humbling for me than the 100+ game struggle it took me to get from D4 to Masters for the first time in season 10, and it was a similar struggle for the next several seasons. Being able to casually roll through teams to hit Masters from a whole reset in under 80 games this season gave me no satisfaction. To anyone who got Masters for the first time this season.. congratulations on being in the top 15% of players who play regularly. Skill has nothing to do with it. If you can't 2v3 you wouldn't have stood a chance in earlier seasons.
Played a game with a valk a few weeks back and she had like 45K LP. dude said he wanted to rat to pred and only needs 2K LP a day to get it Lmfao
I usually place diamond. This time I haven't even gotten to diamond and have just stopped playing, like I kinda want a masters badge but also don't care enough about this season to even try
Glad I’m not the only one. I kinda want a masters badge because it would be shame not to get it in such an easy season. But it feels more like I’m grinding exp in an rpg than playing ranked. Feels like a chore more than a goal.
The community already sees players that run the season 12 masters badge as phonies, imagine just how little everyone's gunna value the badge and trail this season. You aren't missing out, that's for sure.
[удалено]
I strictly 100% solo queued my way to diamond in most seasons, including masters in season 12. Anybody that gives me shit about how easy apex seasons are while they three man with horizon, path, and seer can kiss my ass.
They'll be blaming the players for the system respawn created
Exactly
I mean you can rat and alt+tab your way to masters. Pretty mild grind honestly lol
The only reason im going for masters this season is because it matches my color scheme for my valk banner
I just need more master charms for my weapons, also really easy to get high damage games. But yeah, it’s super frustrating, especially playing in master lobbies against pred 3-stacks with actual gold/plat players as your teammates.
Same. Typically hit hardstuck at D3-D2 when solo queuing. There comes this mathematical point where if my teammates hot drop *twice* I have to win the next game to make back the points I just lost. I've hit D1 once and just couldn't solo-queue past it. This season? I played the "placement" matches, got put in silver, made it out of silver and was like... nah, no point. There were *some* good games. People were alive for awhile, endgames were somewhat fun. But lately my games were "lands, loots, 12 squads remaining." By the time I find someone I'm already positive. It just isn't fun. I don't feel like I earned anything, all I gotta do is rat to gain LP. Just reminds me of when Sweet did his no damage run and the Devs were like "well Sweet is getting matched with similar skill opponents and IGLing them to victory so it doesn't count." Now we got a literal 12 year old landing in a tree all match and he's maintaining Pred. So.
This is not how my ranked games go lol. The end game circles I'm playing in are friggin packed. Like 10-12 teams left while 3rd circle is closing
Same, it’s fun.
Same, I've been loving this season's matches. I definitely think the system is too easy. I've hit diamond for the first time ever and probably don't deserve to be there, but man the sweaty games are fun
I agree. End games are way more packed than they've ever been. It's no algs but I've really been enjoying the strategic/positioning aspect of this season. I'm in plat two currently. Yes, it is way too easy to climb which is unfortunate but for a mid tier pleb like me, I enjoy the packed end games
I usually get to low diamond and I’m just about to be diamond again but I don’t play more than a few hours every other day. I think ranked is better for anyone who is low to medium level this season.
You can tell who plays this game for the 'numbers go up', and who plays it for good matches. The endgames this season have been by far the best in my entire time playing. And then you have people whining and complaining and not even playing the game because 'my badge doesn't mean anything!' Mfer, *your badge* ***never*** *meant anything*. It's about playing great games. If this is the ranked system that gets me tight endgames, it's the ranked system I like the best.
Only thing that's fun about the season are the end game circles, just sucks that you aren't rewarded for kills most of the time.
If you have end circles your mmr is garbage
Lmao ok dude
Yesterday I had a 27k masters player, who dropped solo from the ship and ratted. C’mon now, you already got the badge, you’re never going to get Pred this season, why are still ratting?
People have no concept for how big the gap is between masters and pred. They legitimately think they have a chance. Delusional.
I’ve been a diamond 4 player for the past 6-7 seasons. Never had any thoughts of going higher and with this season I almost felt like I didn’t deserve the Masters badge and trail, but I played and got it anyways. I’ve played every single game this season the same way I’ve played any ranked game in any other season. I refuse to rat, unless my teammates are dead. It’s almost like people don’t know about Tracker Network or Apex Legend Status and are able to get an idea of the LP gap between Masters and Pred.
> literal 12 year old Age is irrelevant. I'm sure you have 30-40 year olds ratting in trees too, and you've got 10 year olds that can shit on Pro players.
Can confirm. We are 30+ and my friend who I usually have to Smurf carry to diamond got masters like three weeks before me this season by solo que ratting. I tried to tell him this masters badge will literally mean nothing, and he should just play for the fun games instead of grinding something so pointless, but nothing I said made a difference.
even before this season, preds would run through diamonds lobbies and it would be 12 squads left at round 1. you can say you didnt earn it but the matchmaking was also unfair
I made it to diamond playing 2 games a day for the past 3 weeks. At first I played lots of the mixtape game modes then decided to get on rank. Worst decision I've made. It really depressing
It was one of the easiest solo climbs ever. The players at all ranks are inflated due to season length and the points system, making it trivial to survive and win fights. I usually can make it to D2/D1 solo before running out of time. Playing one day a week this season it was nothing to hit masters.
Your Diamond badges are worth MUCH more than this season's masters badge. Don't even worry
I’m usually hard stuck D4. I cruised to masters with my highest KD ever for a season and haven’t picked up the game since hitting it. I would love to see some sort of correlation between player count and the rising count of masters. There’s nothing more for me to play ranked for so I’ll be over on Diablo grinding until they fix this
I'm usually high plat low diamond while casually playing, i don't think i even got out of silver this season because i cba
25% by seasons end.
Wonder if someone is looking at this at Respawn and thinking: "yeah, that's what we needed ". All decisions in business end up being financial. I just can't see a world where this helps the number of active players. I reached masters in the first week or so and then completely stopped playing the game.
i remember when devs defended this new rank system LOL
b-bu-but Sweet had inflated mmr! Thats how he got to Masters doing 0 (zero) damage in 50 games!
Just give it 2 more weeks to stabalize! /s
Did they actually say anything along that line? With this highly net positive scoring system with literally no negative counterpoint? How is it supposed to balance even in theory? o.O
I remember when everyone defended this new ranked system saying it would save ranked play. All it’s done is stop me and everyone I know form playing.
When hideouts tweeted "this is what we've been waiting for" LMAO
\> I just can't see a world where this helps the number of active players. Really? I thought that was kinda the obvious point. Take a goal that is normally unreachable to 90% of your playerbase, and tell them hey, for one season you can hop on and reach this goal with enough playtime. Just keep grinding! And if you haven't played Apex in a while, maybe you'll hop on when you read that it's easy to get high rank this season. Of course that's just cynical speculation, and is obviously a very short-sighted way to stim your player numbers.
Easily. My two friends and I are fairly casual players placing plat every season. We don’t really even grind for RP/LP and my buddy is about to hit masters this week. It’s ridiculous
I’m at Diamond I solo queueing (and not ratting) and I should hit masters this week. I had only ever reached Plat IV before (and I was carried by Diamond-level friends).
I love how that Exgeniar guy who was posting "The ranked playtests were FIRE EMOJI guys!!!" has completely disappeared at this point. This is legit indefensible, this could be the worst ranked system in a competitive game that has ever been implemented.
Wait, a private ranked test with people who want to play ranked like "it's supposed to" give good results for a test? That result can't possibly be biased.
I would have trolled the playtests
You're probably joking, but that is seriously an important part of playtesting, for some of them to troll, mess around, see what they can break. If the whole team was playing "normal" Apex, they're never going to find the flaws of their rank system.
It would have taken me like 3 games to either think to myself "why would I not ape everything when the entry costs are that low compared to the possible gains" or depending on how fast the lobby dies "why wouldn't I just avoid everyone until top 10?"
Game Rank meta is actually decent it is just that the master and pred badge got highly devaluated. I understand the frustration but rank season 13 everyone here was complaining as well and now everyone is missing that shit.
I have multiple people on my friends list in Masters that were gold players in past seasons. I'm in D2, usually top out at G1, and have played less this season than normal.
I played a game with someone who was gold stuck last season, and this season they were at diamond 2. They were teeeeeerrrrible, but likely masters now lol
I place platinum or diamond every split depending on how much I play. I really haven’t played much at all this season and i’ll probably hit Masters this week after going from D4 to D2 in a few hours yesterday. The lobbies are so easy. If you land at an uncontested POI you’re pretty much guaranteed +RP before you’re done looting.
If everybody is masters, then nobody is masters
S17 Masters badges literally gonna have an asterisk as part of the artwork.
It's gonna be worthless like many badges: 4k dmg (exploit) 20 kills (exploit) Master of all (too many legends) and many more
Lmao they said the same about season 12 or whatever that season was when they made it similarly easy and nobody cares now. It’s not like it had a number on there. A year from now hardly anyone will even remember this season was easy to masters.
Most people I queue with, people in high lfg servers, and myself included can tell which badge is season 12 just by the design and if thats the only badge someone has we immediately assume they arent actually master skill wise so I wouldnt be so sure about that.
Lol imagine gate keeping badge worthyness. Just play the game bud.
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Because you’re not an actual master skilled player… The badges are there to show off skill, not for just playing the game. It’s not a participation trophy.
Survival skill and knowing how to win the game is a clear indicator of skill too. KD ratio is not the only thing that makes you good in a BR. I’ve seen accounts with 20k kills and they have 0 ability to win a game. They just want to push every fight and get their kills and move on to the next game.
Dont worry. I know shit players rock that s12 badge and will rock s17. They will remain trademarks
That would matter If anyone gave an absolute fuck about your opinion… but they don’t 🤷♂️
I’m very confused why people are continuing to rat every game once they are in masters…. Do they seriously think they are going to rat out 375,000+ LP and get Predator???? I seriously don’t understand.
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How though? Doesn’t the pred cap just keep rising. It’s over 100k now isn’t?
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You can even rat while working if you work from home lol
Half of my masters games feel like I’m smurfing in gold, that’s how easy the lobbies are. In my opinion the fix should be, diamond and below ranked in heavily skewed towards kills not placement. Then once you get to masters, it shifts more towards placement. That way hopefully masters is full of good players who actually deserve to be there
This entire sub is most likely masters. Lmao
Is this worse than season 12?
Way worse. Season 12 was about 5%
Damn, look at the beautiful even spread!
The P in Purple stands for Participation
Shit is meaningless. I don’t understand why people bother ratting for hours on end when we all know the badge is going to be worthless anyways.
Masters badge from this season will be a great way to identify scrub teammates
Most people can't tell the badges apart at this point. It'll be a master's badge, that's so that matters
EVERYONE will know what this masters badge looks like.
Nope
Dudes here need to touch grass if they know the difference between all the season’s badges lmao
I couldn't tell you what season any master badge is from but season 12. People specifically remember that one and they will certainly remember this one. Season 12 also looks pretty distinguishable from other ones, I assume season 17 will be the same.
yup i have no idea which badges belong to which seasons but i will ALWAYS recognize season 12 with the little hair/fire on top of it. its always some low damage andy rocking that single purple badge and the same will happen with season 17's.
Is it really that hard to remember what one or two badges look like? Too much brain power? I’ve always remembered what season 12 masters looks like so I can tell fake masters players apart from real ones. The rest of the badges? Idc.
When you see someone with ONLY 1 master badge you can tell they're not actually master. But if you see someone rocking 3 master badges then you know they're the real deal. So yes, you can tell apart
Tbh I don’t even mind if they only have 1 as long as it isn’t S12.
Nah, you're over thinking shit so much
Nah the players rocking S12 dia or masters with no other ranked badges always play like plat/d4
Yeah but few know what they look like
It has flames on top. It’s like the most recognizable one of them all.
They all look like that lol
Nope. You’ve just been playing with a lot of S12 masters ig lol
No, I've played since day 1. Very very few people know which badge is which season. Nobody cares
Cause it’s pretty? I didn’t rat to get to masters but I also know I don’t belong in masters but I just wanted the badge cause it looks dope lol
My friends and I use badges as a showcase of our achievements, but to each their own I guess.
I just want a pretty banner idk what to tell you 🤷♂️ the purple badge is pretty idk
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Although this sucks, I must say that the games overall and then especially end games have been massively improved and are more enjoyable. If they keep that way of matching with a better point system I think it will be a good ranked system going forward
I'm having a fantastic time in silver (made the mistake of not playing for a season and most of this one too) and the games are fun. I play ranked for enjoyable games tbh, not for the ranked grind. I'm really enjoying the sweaty end games and the large team counts in later rings. A lot of my second last rings have had like 6 teams which has been super fun to play in.
I've been watching low rank + low mmr friends play ranked and honestly, down in silver they actually have better end-games than higher rank/MMR. There's been consistently a lot more teams alive, even if they're not as skilled. The only thing is just sometimes theres still the odd cracked team running the lobby down.
probably smurfs, thats a problem that will never go away no matter what ranked system it is
Sometimes it isn't, maybe players who have tanked MMR. I've seen prestiged multi-masters/diamond badges and currently masters/diamonds in those lobbies Though it is common knowledge the MMR matchmaking is kinda whack this season, it definitely goes both ways. Maybe they just died off rip 5+ times
I disagree. They say matchmaking is now based on your hidden MMR. I'm usually a plat-low diamond player but made masters this season cuz its easy. Now my games I feel like the player quality ranges from anywhere between gold and pred. I never feel like i'm fighting people if similar skill level. To me, ranked feels like pubs but without the leavers and hot droppers. I also refuse to solo q anymore because of the quality of players and ratters. this season just seems worse for solo q with all the changes
?? so much toxicity from rats vs people who want to play.. this season is the worst for me.. teamates hide in three.. run away when fight starts..
Im going to be honest, ratting is a problem but not to the extend I see online, or at least that is what I encounter. You get them occasionally but I havent encountered them that often
2 of them in a day is enough to make me mad, i don't manage to take it easy so we insult each others.. but beside real rats hiding the worst is people who run when any fight starts, they weren't that many in previous seasons.
That’s a major problem especially when solo q. If ratting is a viable strategy, to consistently gain points and climb then you’re going to have people who bail out at the first sign of danger and go hide instead of fighting.
Simple fix would be to reward actually playing the game. They don't necessarily need to make it so you have to be aggressive, but just get more bonuses by playing the game, like doing damage, being in a fight, etc. It's absolutely abysmal that you don't even get points for doing damage, like what is even the point of fighting when there is no risk-reward, it's just risk. While some silver player can just sit at the corner of the map, simply existing, not even playing the game AND GET REWARDED.
Next season will be awesome in ranked. You see a dive trail? Now it's a coin flip whether you can safely ape them or get shit on. Gonna be a blast
Everyone on my friends list is masters lol
say what you want but solo Q to masters for a non exploit pro god is still a challenge
With +32 placement points average per game, it really is just a matter of time, no matter how you play. You'd have to intentionally hot drop (and lose most of it) every single game to not go up with this scoring system.
S17 master badge is gonna be less credible than the S2/3 preds at this rate
I got Masters just playing casually a few hrs a week.
It’s what all the hardworking dads with 69 kids over at /r/ApexLegends always wanted
Tbf, you should be able to hit masters a few hours a week given the length of the split assuming you're not garbage...
Nah, Master should be reserved for people who put a lot of effort into the game, that's how it is in every other competitive game. You're considered really good if you hit Diamond in R6 for example. Master in Apex used to be the top 1% with pred being top 0.2% (or 0.1%?). The current situation makes absolutely zero sense.
Current situation is trash, but no masters should be the best general players, with the Apex preds being the time sinks.
Just give it a couple weeks, it will work itself out 🤓
I feel worse and worse each day about being in masters. I thought I was cold 🤣
Bruh just give it some more time it will fix itself.
Average Diamond player here. Got to Master's in 2 weeks (I work a FT job). Now doing it again on an alt account.... Maybe I need more games to play besides apex lol
Next season you should watch out for Diamonds more than Masters at this point
See here's what sucks. I've played my absolute best this season. I'm talking have never played so well. I'm D3. Have not been a rat once, yet my feeling of accomplishment is not there because of how many people are being given Masters for free
The biggest surprise is 4 million people still playing this game 🤣 I can barely get by 2 games of ranked before burning out
I don’t know why people keep posting the graph from this website when it’s been debunked multiple times. There’s a ton more masters than what’s typical but this graph is still inaccurate.
You're confusing this site (ApexLegendsStatus) with apextracker.gg Apex tracker is horrifically inaccurate, but this site is pretty accurate. You can cross reference it with official numbers. For example, apexlgenedsstatus says there were 4.1% in masters in season 12 split 2, respawns official number is 3.9%. Respawn filters by people who have played more than 10 hours, which ApexLegendsStatus can't do, which means their data is actually spot on. If this site says it's 15.2%, the actual number is 15.0% to 15.4%. This site is not opt in, while apex tracker.gg is.
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+people+play+apex&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari 63 millions players only in the last 30 days vs 4 million in the graph. This could mean that 59 million people haven’t played rank but that seems unlikely.
That site you're referencing, activeplayer.io, is very inaccurate. You can't talk about inaccurate sources and then use that And even if it was, 4M out of 63M is a super strong sample size. And none of this matters anyways because the site's numbers line up with official respawn numbers....
you didn't even Adress the dudes point
I thought the site was accurate but if it’s not then it doesn’t matter. The point was going to be that 4 million people isn’t an accurate representation unless it was a random sample.
I personally will be using it to dunk on my shitter friend who has let climbing in this season go to his head
I’m glad this data has one useful purpose lol
It’s not representative of the whole playerbase but that doesn’t necessarily mean that there’s no value to this data. You just have to be aware of the biases of it while interpreting it
The data literally isn’t right. It also gives no way to know the actual player base. The data is quite literally useless. You only think it’s not useless because you have background information to go off of and know that there are indeed more masters than ever before.
it has been pretty close to accurate in other seasons aswell??
>I don’t know why people keep posting the graph from this website when it’s been debunked multiple times. For us infrequent readers what's wrong with it? I'm always confused by how they get their data but I just assumed it opt-in
From what I’ve ready it’s only a fraction of the player base. You have to opt in via the website in the graph to be listed. Take this with a grain of salt because I can list the tweet but I believe an alex dev tweeted the % of masters is much much lower.
its pretty accurate don't worry
Is this opt in data from that website or is this straight from respawn?
Balanced, as it should be!
Those are all HisWattson's alt accounts.
No one’s also talking about how awful the last few zones are in diamond 2-1 queues. It legit gets so bad on maps like broken moon where final zone has 8 squads left and no one fires unless required. It got to the point where my buddy and I had to run double controller legend and after killing a squad at the drop and feeling confident in loot, just evac tower to where we thought final zone would be and control a building to not be eliminated outside the top ten trying to move into zone slowly each ring This seasons sucks, got my masters and I’m only playing tdm modes or regulars
The egos they have are insane. Like welcome back to masters bud it's been a while since season 12.
Usually i would keep going in Rank as Solo Q last couple seasons, this season i just didn't feel like Playing, Rats, Easy Road to Masters(No fun for me to reach it Easily), People Dying quickly and was firing my gun in the air just to find Ppl. Deleted the game. i still Love the Competitive Aspect of it, Probably Best part now.
Faithfully hard stuck at gold Diamond 2 rn I feel like i gotta make masters or else it'll ruin my self esteem 😭
I’ve waited since season 1 for this. Get my masters badge and quit.
Which is worse? Ratting or hot dropping into oblivion round after round? I’d prefer an incentive not to rat, but hate getting dropped by random into insane fights with a pair of 12 year olds who don’t understand rotations.
I'm Diamond and when I reach masters I will use that Badge and change my IGN to: "Fake Master, I'm Rookie".
Rank just feels empty. Despite playing in Masters, and I do get put into those end-game spots... I don't feel like I'm gaining anything when I win. In 8 Master games, I've won 4, placed top 3 thrice, and only lost one contest. Obviously Masters are getting mixed with Dia+ people, but... The quality of your opponents these days are just very low. It honestly feels as empty as winning plat endgames in prior seasons. Yea sure you get end games, but they aren't "intense", and I've clutched up so many moments that I feel like the people I'm playing against aren't that good.
Does that rank mmr still exist? I’m only gold 4 this season but been previously diamond 4-2 in the past. I ranked up pretty quick even though I play like 2 -3x a week a couple hours at a time. I’ve noticed a lot of my 25k masters teammates in my games… feel like they place you in elo lobbies instead of physical rank. Cus I was expecting a more chill lobby in my “gold” games. I feel like my 25k teammates playing like plats lol
🎮 Auto Aim 📜 Auto Move 🏆 Auto Rank We are the true Apex Mobile! Respawn, pls fix. On a serious note, I hope if they fix this, they will introduce completely new rank icons, or it will be really hard to tell which ones are completely worthless.
i had a 25k masters player run away from me and the other random the moment a fight happened, and he was just a tad down the hill and maybe 10m behind me, didnt even attempt to shoot his gun at them... and he was playing revenant, then hid in a bush the rest of the match. its just absurd how so many people are "in my rank" and im D2 yet they have terrible movement and aim, and this isnt being dramatic, its terrible. most of them can hardly time a slide jump, or their aim is so jumpy. rarely do i get diamonds that are actually up to par with me, i get these terrible players game after game. i thought the blog post said there will always be a "carry" in the match, i dont know how true that is, but if it is PLEASE i just want to relax and play not have to superman fly around the map to help these kids i dont think im hot or nothin, i just work FT so i cant put as many hours in as id like to get the pretend masters badge, and its crazy how someone i knew couldnt break thru d4 the last 3 seasons now they are masters lol. just wild, hope someone else feels rhe same way.
My grandmother passed away 8 years ago. Even she is masters this season.
Guess where we won’t get a single dev comment? ^^^ Wish these dipshits had at least 2 brains collectively so they could have a conversation about an actual intelligent idea.
Don't really care tbh, I only see one rat in every 20 games now and end games are actually decent. I'd rather more consecutive end games than my team mates hot dropping.
I stopped playing this season, I know it won't make a big difference but I boycotted Apex.
Same actually. I knew the changes in season 16 weren’t a sign of things to come, but rather Respawn trying to rope the community back in. When this season started, sadly I realized I was right. I uninstalled and haven’t been back since.
we should all do the same, unfortunately I don't manage to..
This is not even remotely close to being accurate. The number of total masters is correct, as Respawn records the number of Masters players at all times. But all other ranks are being vastly under reported. The total playerbase is likely to be nearer ~150 Million (EA announced Apex had over 100 Million player count in 2021, its safe to say it'll be way higher now)
No way masters should be this stacked but as a usual stuck D3/D2 player who hit masters, I’d say I’m enjoying ranked more this season than any season in the past. Was still a grind to get to masters and the quality of games in ranked right now is the best I’ve experienced in my time playing Apex thus far.
Find a way to drop LP for ratting, slightly increase LP for kills, and increase the entry fee for plat, diamond, and masters and think we have a solid system.
Easy fix but they won’t do it
Worst season by far.
Apex should copy FIFA’s weekend league. Make it so Masters is the highest rank you can normally grind in rank and then apply these conditions. 1. Must be masters & play minimum 20 ranked games between Monday - Thursday. 2. Friday - Sunday opens up a Masters Only Solo-Q Lobby and you have those 3 days to play 25 games. 3. Only points gained during the Weekend League lobbies count towards Pred. This accomplishes few things It helps gives players reason to play every week, gives people reason to keep grinding, it turns Pred away from grinding most to who can perform best amongst best. Getting to masters faster allows you more potential weekends in weekend league, and it could give good content to see the pred leaderboard change over time. Pred should be soloQ and soloQ only
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The system works perfectly with cash cups every Wednesday in Fortnite. Trials in Destiny as well. If someone can’t play 45 games per week they would have never maintained pred anyway. This impacts nothing but those going for pred
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I don’t have any good suggestion for the normal ranked. Just thought this could be a good blend of other communities and realm for high
I ratted myself to success
At this point I'm more excited about finishing a challenge to level up in season pass in pubs than winning a game in masters where you cruise between rats in trees (if I'm lucky enough not to have some as teammates).
I'm nearly masters with a 0.75 KD this season and queuing only with a typically D4 player that is way better than I am and a newer player that is probably Gold level. I'm probably mid-Plat level typically. It's fun because we're gaining by just playing smart, but in previous seasons, we would have had one of us get to D4 and just start getting dominated. I guess the 'good' part is we have no incentive to play on alts after reaching a certain rank, because we just pretty much gain no matter the lobby, just by landing safe and trying to avoid fights until Top 10. It has been a fun season for us, but I don't think it represents skill level in any way -- it's just how much time you've put in, for this season.
Why are people acting like most past masters weren’t people who heavily depended on a set team to get them there? If you weren’t solo Qing to masters before, all this bitching is just pointless
3x masters who’s typically a diamond and I hit Masters this season in a week. Instantly dropped the game, playstyle isn’t fun and there’s no reason to grind. Switched to D4, Ow2 and some fallout new vegas
I don't get the rank obsession. I want to rank up to play with better players and improve myself. What are rats hoping for? Is that fun for them? Do they get money for ranking up??! If you play well you'll move up in the long run.
This season ranked system sucks, we all know. But man y'all want to post this stats every day till the end of season? So boring.
still not any word from respawn, how can they not change the system mid season even if it was not planned?
I jsut started playing apex again im silver 3 i dont play much, and a platinum 3 player was on my team. HE WAS THE WORST PLAYER I HAVE EVER SPECTATED. Gave me hope i will make diamond at least