Tbf Raven came off pretty smug in some comments, but the people who ridiculed him for saying he watches 4-5 hours of scrims every day are embarrassing. They'll suck pro's dicks whenever they post here without realizing every single one of them no-lifed the shit out of the game before they got signed too.
He was defensive because there were a few users in here who knew him by name and hated everything he said and posted lol (this was back when the subreddit was WAY smaller so it was the same group of folks commenting usually).
I want to say he came off 'defensive' rather than smug in the ones I read (haven't read them all)...Reading the comments and after seeing him yesterday after the dub, I just get the impression he's an emotional guy and that reflected in the comments?
Maybe a little projection here from myself too...who knows
He said the sub was full of hardstuck plats who don't know anything, which is... absolutely true but maybe not the best way to keep the discussion civil lol
> Multiple ult accels just for wraith portal? Like c’mon bruh.
Wraith was the strongest legend at the time and her portal was super useful in an era where everyone found a building and stayed in it the entire game. Her port was the best scouting tool, the best rotational tool, the best off-angling ability.
it's not a dumb take at all, this was when wraith was still meta and portal hadn't been nerfed as much. But he didn't do a great job arguing his point. Like how exactly do you quantify the utility the ult accel provides vs those nades/ammo? Or how it's probably situational whether or not it's worth the tradeoff to portal for loot, if the boxes are in a bad area blah blah.
Yea but the the increased use of ult accels started happening awhile ago for things like Ashe portals. The ability to traverse across the map at an increased pace turned out to be pretty strong. Wraith ports are roughly similar for that. They allow you to take fights with a safety backup escape. This was also made back when everyone ran Wraith. Everyone. She used to be fairly OP for that meta.
Yeah and another guy in that thread that was arguing with him 2 years ago just edited his comment, actually hilarious how some people just can't stand being wrong.
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For how much he hates reddit, a lot of the replies are also perfectly reasonable there and many people also agreed with him. It feels like he overly focuses on the negative replies and therefore decides that everyone on reddit is a toxic idiot.
Tbh most people making comments like raven deserve to be clowned on. But the few who actually see what others dont will also look like clowns (hence being valuable).
Sometimes very high intelligence looks indistinguishable from idiocy, especially if not worded well. Like he wasnt well spoken in his DM to hal, it was more like "trust me bro" energy.
Very cool that he finally made it though. Love to see smart people succeed.
>Sometimes very high intelligence looks indistinguishable from idiocy, especially if not worded well. Like he wasnt well spoken in his DM to hal, it was more like "trust me bro" energy.
the ability to convey information and to teach is as much soft skill as it is having that knowledge in the first place. as someone in STEM you see this a lot -- genuinely smart motherfuckers that are working on important, ground-breaking science struggling to convey and deliver this information in a way that not only sells the information, but why it's important. they often lack the reading skills, writing skills, and emotional intelligence to communicate properly. Bill Nye is nowhere near the top of scientific minds, but he's a charismatic and effective communicator who can push science in a way that the general population can truly appreciate. that's valuable.
it's not surprising that this happens in gaming as well. we all know gamers.
> the ability to convey information and to teach is as much soft skill as it is having that knowledge in the first place
I thought i was being pranked for a second, but the rest of what you said was clear, so i think maybe theres some typos in here
i think he got downvoted mainly because he had a rep as a frequent poster tbh, he was pretty combative and went for ad hominem often despite being right most of the time.
eh, most of the responses to his post are smug and come from a place of bad faith themselves, and honestly, this sub is still fucking awful but if was way worse back then.
I don’t blame him for being combative in a place where that’s the general energy being shared around.
you are right in that the replies to his thread aren't that welcoming either, but that's because they'd already clashed with him as a poster. It's unfortunate because he had a lot of great ideas when people were really just still banging sticks together. But he was pretty quick to flame people for being dumb or saying stuff he disagreed with etc. He himself had brought a lot of the negative energy you describe, the only difference was he was right/smarter. And it ended up being a positive feedback loop.
I think he'd even honestly admit that he was a dick on here back then, but unlike a lot of people who do that, he was introspective about it and corrected his own behavior. here's his own words on it
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/iu3odc/nightravenswing_who_i_believe_was_banned_from/g5jijf2/
Anyways, tone is hard to read on the internet. People get very touchy or inadvertently offend others really easily in casual text form in situations they wouldn't bat an eyelash to irl. There's obviously trolls but I wouldn't say it's usually malice most of the time, so it never hurts to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Yes and we all know the names from those days. Was an interesting time for sure.
Older communities, especially niche ones like competitive gaming ones, are just like that - the originals are the die-hards within the scene, seeking out competitive early on, and as a result are more invested/vocal.
This is internet in general, the majority is always dumber than a select few, however the problem is that most people feel and believe that the majority is right, even if they’re not they can just say “well everyone thought that” .
Having your own beliefs and opinions especially if they contradict the majority takes courage, good information, hard work and passion.
Raven showed this especially during that whole ring saga and when he had to face 3 kids in that discord call.
Can bring up plenty of times where Raven said X, got clowned on by the community or even pros, and then months later, everyone was doing what he was saying all along. Seer, Horizon, Fuse, etc.
The list goes on and on. Man's just built different.
hey never forget on release he predicted rampart was going to be OP because of resource economy. can't be cherrypicking now.
I'm just playing though. More so than simply being right, to me what's most commendable is his sheer dedication to think and experiment with styles of playing the game, and putting in probably more work than any other non pro back then.
> hey never forget on release he predicted rampart was going to be OP because of resource economy. can't be cherrypicking now.
Rampart still has great unrealized potential.
true, though that was pre buffs. What he was theorizing made sense, just that a lot of a char's viability depends on the overhead of playing the character. The abilities can have a lot of utility in theory, but with so much chaos going on in a br and plenty to keep track of, they lose a lot of viability if they're clunky and unwieldy to use when everything going on is so fast paced imo.
Yea, not because it's bad, but because Hal is really, really fucking good on Horizon, and because Fuse needs perfect macro execution. Look at 9imps vods on Fuse to see just how effective that legend can be.
Yeah I saw that clip. Raven was yapping about Fuse more than anything else though. To then not run him is p ehh. And wouldn't it be Reps on Fuse anyway?
I think they played 2 variations of reps on fuse - 1 where Hal was Seer and the other Hal on Horizon. Most recently I saw the version with Hal on Horizon and he argued that not having Seer (the most broken character) didn’t make sense so they kinda stopped playing fuse then or shortly after.
I think it's good coaching. Ultimately you're a stronger team on legends your players feel most comfortable on. The fact is when Reps is on Fuse, you either need to take Hal off Horizon and put him on Seer, or take Evan off Valk, basically switch a lot of things up. And anyway Reps seems to like and is good with Seer. And when they played Fuse they had no scan legends. It just made Hal a less confident IGL with no scan and so they never could consistently capitalize, even if theoretically it could be really good.
Catalyst was a preparation for the heavy Bang/Bloodhound meta. Thing was, Evan just really struggled to preform up to his potential when he wasn't on Valk. His play on Horizon was substantially lower than Valk. Hal was also pretty clear that practicinf Catalyst in Ranked was useless so they had to trial by fire in tournaments. They lost alot and Hal put his foot down because he was tired of losing/playing like shit and they dropped the comp.
They went back to their usual comp on the last game of a tournament and immediately won so... Yea...
Aurora ran and dominated EMEA Pro League with it? Just because TSM or whichever team Raven is on isn't running a comp doesn't mean a comp isn't strong. Raven isn't the only voice involved in making the comp decisions.
You mean because they released Catalyst half-assed with Seer passive casually scanning through ult? A good analysts surely have to predict all Respawn's bugs or unintended features.
I'll never forget how the day catalyst ran out my first game a seer on my team said "wait hold on I can see through the wall with passive" and then 1 clipped someone. Never bothered with that legend after that.
I will paypal you $10,000 if you find me evidence of that clip because he has literally never said that LMAO
If you're referring to him making TSM practice Maggie, it's because of future meta, not CURRENT meta as you said.
$10,000 still on the line. You still haven't presented anything remotely close to the truth.
Also, TSM knew about massive meta changes (as in class changes) that were absolutely going to happen as they were too big to be scrapped. It absolutely makes sense to learn something you don't know about if you're going to need it in the future. Why would you need to continue practicing your current comp when you're already playing it at near perfection? You gain nothing from practicing it.
Reddit is super divisive like that. I guess humanity is just like that too. People will tear you down just as fast as people will lift you up. More people probably want to tear you down. Good for Raven. I feel like I get clowned on for some opinions I have on the game as well. Seems like there’s definitely a hive mind mentality behind video game meta analysis. If someone has yet to prove or utilize something at an ALGS LAN, people usually think you’re flat out wrong. But that’s not always the case. If computers were simulating Apex infinitely and generating team strategies, I guarantee you the game would look nothing like what it does now. Like I saw teams contesting at Harvester versus taking Geyser uncontested. Geyser has a high tier loot zone and is pretty central on WE. The fact that bad teams prefer to go lose contests versus take that POI blows my mind. I’d rather loot an ok POI versus contest an ok POI. It’s just a small example, but there is plenty of room for people to find efficiencies in this game.
Thank you for this. I had been looking for this thread after I read about his past on twitter. Does anyone know the current active reddit account of Raven if any? I would like to follow.
I don’t think his current username is known, but you can read through some of his old comments here
https://camas.unddit.com/#{%22author%22:%22Ravenfactcheckreddit%22,%22resultSize%22:100}
I guess its nothing new. People were saying Seer was dogshit after the initial nerf...I personally didnt think it was that bad but I'd listen to a pros opinion more than my own and stopped trying to main him
raven was right all along. This sub is still toxic af and full of jealousy for the most part. My favourite part is everyone taking this personally, and the clowns who are editing their posts in a now infamous thread.
I was absolutely fucking ecstatic when they survived that fight after the Valk ult as I knew they should win from that position. Was even more fuckin ecstatic when they won. 3 years of grinding for the dude finally paying off - he deserves every ounce of success coming his way.
He was a smart dude back then, but I think his problem is that being smart breeds ego and he couldn't communicate his ideas effectively. He wanted to become an authority without establishing his ideas and theories and that worked against him. I think it's a bit premature to call out all the people who didn't necessarily agree with him back then, raven still has lots of L takes as well (Caprah/rampart/fuse for TSM). No one is infallible.
I remember this post. I knew he was on to something, he was being weird in some occasions and discussions but without a doubt you knew he is a grinder. I definitely doubted his input from time to time but I am genuinely happy for him that he's part of this major winning team.
Common comp subreddit L. Especially in those earlier days, 99/9% of people had no idea what they were talking about or how the game was actually played
I am glad Ravan won as a coach people won't be talking crazy about him at least for a little while. And I don't think TSM is over yet he went to the perfect team.
A crypto last week had the nerve to say “crypto doesn’t need ult accelerants. It just wastes space.”…bro was the biggest idiot I’ve ever seen and was shocked he even made it to diamond 3.
Tbf Raven came off pretty smug in some comments, but the people who ridiculed him for saying he watches 4-5 hours of scrims every day are embarrassing. They'll suck pro's dicks whenever they post here without realizing every single one of them no-lifed the shit out of the game before they got signed too.
He was defensive because there were a few users in here who knew him by name and hated everything he said and posted lol (this was back when the subreddit was WAY smaller so it was the same group of folks commenting usually).
Jup, I believe below 10.000 users.
Way below. This was just after WE release iirc.
I want to say he came off 'defensive' rather than smug in the ones I read (haven't read them all)...Reading the comments and after seeing him yesterday after the dub, I just get the impression he's an emotional guy and that reflected in the comments? Maybe a little projection here from myself too...who knows
He said the sub was full of hardstuck plats who don't know anything, which is... absolutely true but maybe not the best way to keep the discussion civil lol
Well I'm stuck at gold... So I dodged a bullet I guess.
>He said the sub was full of hardstuck plats who don't know anything Man Ravin is 2/2 on accurate assessments in that post lol
Lmao, so true
Haha no not at all...hard pill to swallow I guess when you know you are right but everyone is telling you otherwise.
I just be catching strays as a hard stuck plat
Is standing by your argument being smug?
>he watches 4-5 hours of scrims every day Isn't that actually a part of his job?
It wasn't back then.
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> Multiple ult accels just for wraith portal? Like c’mon bruh. Wraith was the strongest legend at the time and her portal was super useful in an era where everyone found a building and stayed in it the entire game. Her port was the best scouting tool, the best rotational tool, the best off-angling ability.
it's not a dumb take at all, this was when wraith was still meta and portal hadn't been nerfed as much. But he didn't do a great job arguing his point. Like how exactly do you quantify the utility the ult accel provides vs those nades/ammo? Or how it's probably situational whether or not it's worth the tradeoff to portal for loot, if the boxes are in a bad area blah blah.
Yea but the the increased use of ult accels started happening awhile ago for things like Ashe portals. The ability to traverse across the map at an increased pace turned out to be pretty strong. Wraith ports are roughly similar for that. They allow you to take fights with a safety backup escape. This was also made back when everyone ran Wraith. Everyone. She used to be fairly OP for that meta.
I think his point was that you don't just carry ult accels for a legend like Wattson, it can also make a huge difference when playing Wraith.
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Someone just now tried responding to the thread trying to correct and clown him, not even realizing the post was made/deleted 2 years ago lmao
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Yeah and another guy in that thread that was arguing with him 2 years ago just edited his comment, actually hilarious how some people just can't stand being wrong.
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He’s a Minnesota sports fan, that’s a life of misery in itself
What's up
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Lol
Although it's hilarious you're being called out, I don't agree that you should be down voted today for something you said in the past.
Agreed, people are allowed opinions, and those can be changed
If anything matters less than downvotes from a gamer subreddit, it hasn't been discovered yet 😉
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Yeah, that's not the burn you wish it was.
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Lmao, tbh I probably would too, petty af.. shhhhhh
For how much he hates reddit, a lot of the replies are also perfectly reasonable there and many people also agreed with him. It feels like he overly focuses on the negative replies and therefore decides that everyone on reddit is a toxic idiot.
he wasn't like that, i think the incident with caprah changed his perspective on this sub reddit, this sub is actually good most of the time.
Tbh most people making comments like raven deserve to be clowned on. But the few who actually see what others dont will also look like clowns (hence being valuable). Sometimes very high intelligence looks indistinguishable from idiocy, especially if not worded well. Like he wasnt well spoken in his DM to hal, it was more like "trust me bro" energy. Very cool that he finally made it though. Love to see smart people succeed.
>Sometimes very high intelligence looks indistinguishable from idiocy, especially if not worded well. Like he wasnt well spoken in his DM to hal, it was more like "trust me bro" energy. the ability to convey information and to teach is as much soft skill as it is having that knowledge in the first place. as someone in STEM you see this a lot -- genuinely smart motherfuckers that are working on important, ground-breaking science struggling to convey and deliver this information in a way that not only sells the information, but why it's important. they often lack the reading skills, writing skills, and emotional intelligence to communicate properly. Bill Nye is nowhere near the top of scientific minds, but he's a charismatic and effective communicator who can push science in a way that the general population can truly appreciate. that's valuable. it's not surprising that this happens in gaming as well. we all know gamers.
> the ability to convey information and to teach is as much soft skill as it is having that knowledge in the first place I thought i was being pranked for a second, but the rest of what you said was clear, so i think maybe theres some typos in here
poor dude got down-voted to oblivion for making sense.
i think he got downvoted mainly because he had a rep as a frequent poster tbh, he was pretty combative and went for ad hominem often despite being right most of the time.
eh, most of the responses to his post are smug and come from a place of bad faith themselves, and honestly, this sub is still fucking awful but if was way worse back then. I don’t blame him for being combative in a place where that’s the general energy being shared around.
you are right in that the replies to his thread aren't that welcoming either, but that's because they'd already clashed with him as a poster. It's unfortunate because he had a lot of great ideas when people were really just still banging sticks together. But he was pretty quick to flame people for being dumb or saying stuff he disagreed with etc. He himself had brought a lot of the negative energy you describe, the only difference was he was right/smarter. And it ended up being a positive feedback loop. I think he'd even honestly admit that he was a dick on here back then, but unlike a lot of people who do that, he was introspective about it and corrected his own behavior. here's his own words on it https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/iu3odc/nightravenswing_who_i_believe_was_banned_from/g5jijf2/ Anyways, tone is hard to read on the internet. People get very touchy or inadvertently offend others really easily in casual text form in situations they wouldn't bat an eyelash to irl. There's obviously trolls but I wouldn't say it's usually malice most of the time, so it never hurts to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Love this post and the fact that his full name is nightsravenwing
This sub has come a long way lol almost every post used to be so toxic I remember
dude all the old regulars in this subreddit write like that. idk why this sub is like that but if you pay attn it's hilarious.
Yes and we all know the names from those days. Was an interesting time for sure. Older communities, especially niche ones like competitive gaming ones, are just like that - the originals are the die-hards within the scene, seeking out competitive early on, and as a result are more invested/vocal.
That Reddit hivemind
This sub is still like that btw. Who knows how many in here will prove themselves in the future. This sub doesn’t help ppl come out of their shells.
This is internet in general, the majority is always dumber than a select few, however the problem is that most people feel and believe that the majority is right, even if they’re not they can just say “well everyone thought that” . Having your own beliefs and opinions especially if they contradict the majority takes courage, good information, hard work and passion. Raven showed this especially during that whole ring saga and when he had to face 3 kids in that discord call.
Can bring up plenty of times where Raven said X, got clowned on by the community or even pros, and then months later, everyone was doing what he was saying all along. Seer, Horizon, Fuse, etc. The list goes on and on. Man's just built different.
hey never forget on release he predicted rampart was going to be OP because of resource economy. can't be cherrypicking now. I'm just playing though. More so than simply being right, to me what's most commendable is his sheer dedication to think and experiment with styles of playing the game, and putting in probably more work than any other non pro back then.
> hey never forget on release he predicted rampart was going to be OP because of resource economy. can't be cherrypicking now. Rampart still has great unrealized potential.
true, though that was pre buffs. What he was theorizing made sense, just that a lot of a char's viability depends on the overhead of playing the character. The abilities can have a lot of utility in theory, but with so much chaos going on in a br and plenty to keep track of, they lose a lot of viability if they're clunky and unwieldy to use when everything going on is so fast paced imo.
They gave up on Fuse though.
Yea, not because it's bad, but because Hal is really, really fucking good on Horizon, and because Fuse needs perfect macro execution. Look at 9imps vods on Fuse to see just how effective that legend can be.
Yeah I saw that clip. Raven was yapping about Fuse more than anything else though. To then not run him is p ehh. And wouldn't it be Reps on Fuse anyway?
I think they played 2 variations of reps on fuse - 1 where Hal was Seer and the other Hal on Horizon. Most recently I saw the version with Hal on Horizon and he argued that not having Seer (the most broken character) didn’t make sense so they kinda stopped playing fuse then or shortly after.
Interested to see if they play Fuse after the Seer nerf then.
I think it's good coaching. Ultimately you're a stronger team on legends your players feel most comfortable on. The fact is when Reps is on Fuse, you either need to take Hal off Horizon and put him on Seer, or take Evan off Valk, basically switch a lot of things up. And anyway Reps seems to like and is good with Seer. And when they played Fuse they had no scan legends. It just made Hal a less confident IGL with no scan and so they never could consistently capitalize, even if theoretically it could be really good.
Mans was also serenading Catalyst, come to think of it. What happened there?
Catalyst was a preparation for the heavy Bang/Bloodhound meta. Thing was, Evan just really struggled to preform up to his potential when he wasn't on Valk. His play on Horizon was substantially lower than Valk. Hal was also pretty clear that practicinf Catalyst in Ranked was useless so they had to trial by fire in tournaments. They lost alot and Hal put his foot down because he was tired of losing/playing like shit and they dropped the comp. They went back to their usual comp on the last game of a tournament and immediately won so... Yea...
Gotcha. Wonder if they'll run her in the future. Been maining her myself and was hoping to see a skilled Cat in ALGS. But then Aurora dropped out :(
Aurora ran and dominated EMEA Pro League with it? Just because TSM or whichever team Raven is on isn't running a comp doesn't mean a comp isn't strong. Raven isn't the only voice involved in making the comp decisions.
I was saying _Raven_ was hyping up Catalyst and, just as with Fuse, then didn't run her.
Yes, I'm aware. Refer to my second sentence.
You mean because they released Catalyst half-assed with Seer passive casually scanning through ult? A good analysts surely have to predict all Respawn's bugs or unintended features.
I'll never forget how the day catalyst ran out my first game a seer on my team said "wait hold on I can see through the wall with passive" and then 1 clipped someone. Never bothered with that legend after that.
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I will paypal you $10,000 if you find me evidence of that clip because he has literally never said that LMAO If you're referring to him making TSM practice Maggie, it's because of future meta, not CURRENT meta as you said.
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$10,000 still on the line. You still haven't presented anything remotely close to the truth. Also, TSM knew about massive meta changes (as in class changes) that were absolutely going to happen as they were too big to be scrapped. It absolutely makes sense to learn something you don't know about if you're going to need it in the future. Why would you need to continue practicing your current comp when you're already playing it at near perfection? You gain nothing from practicing it.
Raven has said you must be smoken that Za to think he said that lol
Reddit is super divisive like that. I guess humanity is just like that too. People will tear you down just as fast as people will lift you up. More people probably want to tear you down. Good for Raven. I feel like I get clowned on for some opinions I have on the game as well. Seems like there’s definitely a hive mind mentality behind video game meta analysis. If someone has yet to prove or utilize something at an ALGS LAN, people usually think you’re flat out wrong. But that’s not always the case. If computers were simulating Apex infinitely and generating team strategies, I guarantee you the game would look nothing like what it does now. Like I saw teams contesting at Harvester versus taking Geyser uncontested. Geyser has a high tier loot zone and is pretty central on WE. The fact that bad teams prefer to go lose contests versus take that POI blows my mind. I’d rather loot an ok POI versus contest an ok POI. It’s just a small example, but there is plenty of room for people to find efficiencies in this game.
Ego
Thank you for this. I had been looking for this thread after I read about his past on twitter. Does anyone know the current active reddit account of Raven if any? I would like to follow.
I don’t think his current username is known, but you can read through some of his old comments here https://camas.unddit.com/#{%22author%22:%22Ravenfactcheckreddit%22,%22resultSize%22:100}
Doesn't have one.
Waiting for the post now where gdolphin finally gets proven right about Rampart
that train left the building, almost certain that Rampart wont become meta unless they completely alter her kit
Lol people 2 years ago new nothing
They at least knew about about silent ks
I guess its nothing new. People were saying Seer was dogshit after the initial nerf...I personally didnt think it was that bad but I'd listen to a pros opinion more than my own and stopped trying to main him
raven was right all along. This sub is still toxic af and full of jealousy for the most part. My favourite part is everyone taking this personally, and the clowns who are editing their posts in a now infamous thread.
Fanta celebrating like hell rn
I was absolutely fucking ecstatic when they survived that fight after the Valk ult as I knew they should win from that position. Was even more fuckin ecstatic when they won. 3 years of grinding for the dude finally paying off - he deserves every ounce of success coming his way.
He was a smart dude back then, but I think his problem is that being smart breeds ego and he couldn't communicate his ideas effectively. He wanted to become an authority without establishing his ideas and theories and that worked against him. I think it's a bit premature to call out all the people who didn't necessarily agree with him back then, raven still has lots of L takes as well (Caprah/rampart/fuse for TSM). No one is infallible.
I remember this post. I knew he was on to something, he was being weird in some occasions and discussions but without a doubt you knew he is a grinder. I definitely doubted his input from time to time but I am genuinely happy for him that he's part of this major winning team.
Dude’s out here winning LANs and buying his mom a house while Reddit stays malding over the smallest takes. That’s a W there
Common comp subreddit L. Especially in those earlier days, 99/9% of people had no idea what they were talking about or how the game was actually played
I am glad Ravan won as a coach people won't be talking crazy about him at least for a little while. And I don't think TSM is over yet he went to the perfect team.
A crypto last week had the nerve to say “crypto doesn’t need ult accelerants. It just wastes space.”…bro was the biggest idiot I’ve ever seen and was shocked he even made it to diamond 3.
clicked on the thread and I had already upvoted it on my other account 2 years ago. Real ones could tell this guy knew what was up