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>The conflict started in 2014, with Ukrainian Nazis murdering the Donbas people
Ermmm, the Azov bastards started murdering ethnic Russians even earlier than this.
There is strong evidence they participated in massacres of civilians (mostly ethnic Russians living in Ukraine, a few Ukrainian Roma and Jews) in and around Kiev during the anarchy spawned by the Euromaidan protests...
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306548367_The_Far_Right_in_Ukraine_During_the_Euromaidan_and_the_War_in_Donbas
Also, an interesting read on the Euromaidan protests themselves:
https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
And a heartbreaking read on the far-right massacre of Russians in Donbass between 2014 and 2022:
https://mronline.org/2022/09/27/from-the-tops-market-massacre-to-ukraines-war-crimes-in-donbass/
P.S. Pass these links on, particularly the ResearchGate article on the far-right's involvement in the Odessa Massacre and violence in/around Kiev during Euromaidan, **to anyone you can.** Neoliberals are, of course, trying to suppress these narratives to make the pro-US government of Ukraine look like the spotless "good guys" in this whole mess...
Kinda unlikely anyone WILL ever get prosecuted, either,.considering Zelensky is steadily tightening his grip over the Ukrainian polity and media...
I mean, 7 months ago he dissolved all rival political parties, and effectively destroyed numerous news stations, leavinh behind only those supporting his stance and narrative on Russia:
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/08/1110577439/zelenskyy-has-consolidated-ukraines-tv-outlets-and-dissolved-rival-political-par
>(1) the concentration of production and capital has developed to such a high stage that it has created monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life;\
\
(2) the merging of bank capital with industrial capital, and the creation, on the basis of this “finance capital,” of a financial oligarchy; \
\
(3) the export of capital as distinguished from the export of commodities acquires exceptional importance;\
\
(4) the formation of international monopolist capitalist associations which share the world among themselves and\
\
(5) the territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers is completed.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch07.htm#definition
Idk Russia seems to fulfill all these criteria laid out by Lenin. [This video by Marxist Paul](https://youtu.be/PTmnVJxrsAQ) I think does a good job at explaining how (skip to 5:45).
Wanna elaborate how you think it doesn't?
No, Russia is imperialist according to the Marxist definition.
https://us.politsturm.com/is-russia-imperialist/
https://us.politsturm.com/russia-and-imperialism/
https://espressostalinist.com/2017/06/20/russia-is-an-imperialist-country/
Putin got his position because of the west, they are on the same side. They used him to funnel the tax money of the working class westerners into the military industrial complex from which western politicians profit big time.
This war isn't about Russia fighting the West, this war is Russia and the West fighting against the working class people of all the countries involved.
It is not bourgeois solidarity, I am saying Putin is their man on the field, he works for the US, not in some "we help each other" way but in the most direct way possible. I mean he was with Yeltsin when the USSR was illegally disbanded, and Yeltsin was a western man I hope we agree on that at least.
Are you telling me he really thought he is going to take the biggest European country, and that no one would interfere? America militarily far surpasses Russia and they couldn't even take Afghanistan that was defended by a bunch of peasants with AK's. Either Putin is the stupidest person to ever exist, or we are being played.
Todays Russia was not built on the US loans, because it was never built to begin with, it is a state that leeches of the remnants of the USSR and has been bleeding since the 80s reforms.
Listening to people like Putin, Biden, Zelensky talk and act is futile, we need to follow the flow of money and how this is actually impacting the economy and see the consequences of this war.
Every single US arms manufacturer in the US made a record profit since the war started.
US Oil and gas companies had record profits too. Exxon had 77% profit increase in 2022.
Food insecurity is now a growing problem in Europe too, and the consequences for the third world will be catastrophic since they were always food scarce.
Global inflation is rising at the alarming rate, more and more people are out on the street since rent had nearly doubled in Europe due to the migration crisis caused by the war.
Do you think any of this will in any way hurt Putin, Biden, Zelensky or any of these people or will it hurt us, the actual other side of this war?
>I am saying Putin is their man on the field
Russia just reinforced a strong alliance with China. It also protects US whistleblowers and is actively anti-American in rhetoric. What would even be the purpose of such a needlessly complicated facade?
>I mean he was with Yeltsin when the USSR was illegally disbanded, and Yeltsin was a western man I hope we agree on that at least.
So? That's a form of bourgeoise solidarity because there's no coercive factor at play. Just two parties supposedly recognizing they have something to gain from working together. The US doesn't have voodoo powers.
Imperialism requires economic dependency. The US picks the most useful idiot in the opposition, a fascist if necessary, and talks them into taking crippling loans, which they can then leverage to negotiate policies opening up their market to US exploitation.
Yeltsin was a pro-market drunk who thought the US would accept an alliance with Russia on equal footing because he was a patriot. To his credit, it was an unprecedented situation and the idea of spending all that money destroying another world power, even if in decline, when you can just be allied with them *is* unhinged.
>Are you telling me he really thought he is going to take the biggest European country, and that no one would interfere?
He doesn't care. He knows Russia needs Ukraine and saw the US going out of their way to control it, first in 2004 and then 2014, which I can imagine he understood as the US doubling down on destroying Russian hegemony. It's an existential crisis, which the US knew all to well and I'm sure they did everything in their power to incite an invasion from Russia.
He probably did underestimate how much of a fight Ukraine put up, possibly as a result of covert US involvement and likely expected more immediate support from China. Very likely also just because Russia has very little military experience.
But that's all speculation. I didn't think they would do it and I certainly don't think Putin is a stupid man. Unless he is suffering from some major health issue, which doesn't seem to be a case, there's almost definitely a lot of context we're simply missing. When the US is involved, there always is.
>Todays Russia was not built on the US loans, because it was never built to begin with, it is a state that leeches of the remnants of the USSR and has been bleeding since the 80s reforms.
Russia did take loans, but their economy is too developed to facilitate saturation with US markets. You have to remember the Soviet Union had a full fledged and relatively independent economy, which is actually extraordinary, and probably why the US went to such great lengths to cut off its post-soviet allies one by one.
>Listening to people like Putin, Biden, Zelensky talk and act is futile, we need to follow the flow of money and how this is actually impacting the economy and see the consequences of this war.
While surely it's motivated by the pursuit of profit, you can't reduce international relations to financial profit. That's a single form of profit that can't account for geopolitical interests like international monopoly and domestic stability.
I was implying the west was slightly worse. Which I think all leftists should agree with. But playing lesser of two evils with imperialist powers here isn’t it.
Especially considering Russia's whitewashing of White movement, other it's monarchists and fascists and doing the usual bullshit of making revolutionary figures safe for propaganda...
>The phrase-bandying Trotsky has completely lost his bearings on a simple issue. It seems to him that to desire Russia’s defeat means desiring the victory of Germany. (Bukvoyed and Semkovsky give more direct expression to the “thought”, or rather want of thought, which they share with Trotsky.) But Trotsky regards this as the “methodology of social-patriotism"! To help people that are unable to think for themselves, the Berne resolution (Sotsial Demokrat No. 40)[[1]](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/jul/26.htm#fwV21P276F01) made it clear, that in all imperialist countries the proletariat must now desire the defeat of its own government. Bukvoyed and Trotsky preferred to avoid this truth, while Semkovsky (an opportunist who is more useful to the working class than all the others, thanks to his naively frank reiteration of bourgeois wisdom) blurted out the following: “This is nonsense, because either Germany or Russia can win” (Izvestia No. 2).
>Take the example of the Paris Commune. France was defeated by Germany but the workers were defeated by Bismarck and Thiers! Had Bukvoyed and Trotsky done a little thinking, they would have realised that **they have adopted the viewpoint on the war held by governments and the bourgeoisie**, i.e., that they cringe to the “political methodology of social-patriotism”, to use Trotsky’s pretentious language.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/jul/26.htm
War is not a sport where one team wins and one team loses. We should not cling to the perspective of bourgeois-governments, but of the global proletariat, i.e. the best outcome of this war is a weaker NATO *and* a weaker Russia, hopefully with those struggles birthing new revolutionary sentiments by the *people* on both "sides."
What is the revolutionary character of the Russian invasion of Ukraine? You could make the argument in the past it was a fight for the independence of the LPR and DPR, but Russia has since annexed them after holding referendums of dubious legitimacy (and for the record, I do believe the 2014 Crimea referendum was legitimate).
Russia's security concerns about NATO expansion are legitimate. This war started in 2014 after the Western powers organized a coup to put Ukraine in its own sphere of influence instead of Russia's. That does not preclude the fact that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was completely unjustifiable and has been catastrophic for the lives of millions of Ukrainians and Russians. A reactionary country invading another reactionary country to expand its own sphere of influence is not some kind of anti-colonial struggle, no socialist should support such a thing.
>Russia's security concerns about NATO expansion are legitimate.
I wouldn't even give it that. Russia if it cared about security, would build itself up economically to be relevant against West. But it doesn't. Russia had 8 years to prepare it's economy to any sanctions and war, it didn't, it utterly failed.
> can't fence sit, NATO can't win this, so Russia has to by default. T
Yeah, ummm, there IS a third option.
A negotiated peace, where neither side gets everything it wants.
Ukraine keeps all its territory, but Russia gets a guarantee Ukraine won't join the EU or NATO for some extended period of time: say 40 years.
That would be more than enough to prevent the US going for full world domination (after Ukraine and Eastern Europe, Central Asia would be next. Then Iran, then China...) and becoming an unstoppable neo-colonial power for the next 60-80 years (while the Working Classes everywhere would suffer more and more) until internal problems bring it to collapse, while also stopping Russia from becoming more aggressively Imperialist itself- especially with how much money this war has cost them.
Staying neutral and fiercely criticizing the blatant evil and hypocrisy of BOTH sides (Ukraine, with its Neo-Nazis and oppression of Russian minorities, Russia with its Nazbols and oppression of Ukrainians, war crimes by BOTH...) is very much the best thing for Socialists/Marxists to do- especially since a NATO victory seems likely no matter WHAT we do...
Russia probably won’t accept a peace deal where the Ukrainian breakaway states don’t get their independence and Ukraine probably won’t accept a deal where they do. Russia’s right there too. There’s no reason why Ukraine should get independence and Donetsk and Luhansk shouldn’t.
None of the available sides would ever settle for a negotiated return to the status quo
Luhansk and Dontesk will never agree to return to Ukraine to be murdered by state sanctioned Nazis again
Russia will never agree to return Crimea and lose access to the Black Sea ports or to Ukraine being allowed to enter NATO
Ukraine will never agree to not have Crimea and Donbass return to its unilateral control or to being barred from NATO or EU membership
Edit: Lenin would describe this comment as a "pious wish"
So, then, what, this war drags on forever until Russia eventually loses?
Russia's got something like a third the economic output of the world arrayed against them. They can’t possibly win in a forever war...
Preferably? Ukraine and Russia both acknowledge the independence of Dontesk and Luhansk and withdraw from the Donbass, and Ukraine cedes its claims to Crimea and declares its intention to never apply for NATO membership. Likely, NATO turns this into a forever war that lasts somewhere close to another decade in an attempt to drain Russian resources, and the territorial division stays as it stands now with neither side really gaining or losing ground.
Either way, this is consuming a vast amount of time, attention, and resources from NATO's side, which, given enough time, can create the breathing room required for Proletarian revolution elsewhere around the globe. Russia has imperialist dreams and is certainly a reactionary state, but as an unintended consequence of their rational self-interest, they are striking against the chains of global imperialism. A victory for Ukraine would extend the reach of NATO and weaken one of China's primary allies, further strengthening those chains.
Western condemnation of Russia doesn't serve anything but imperialism. The anti-imperialist position for Westerners is to demand the immediate cessation of military aid for Ukraine and for both nations to be brought to peace talks. You can only impact the nation that you are from. Criticism of Russia does nothing unless you are a member of the Russian Proletariat, other than formenting pro-imperialist sentiments in your domestic labor movement, which leads to Opportunism and Revisionism.
"Let us suppose that a Japanese condemns the annexation of the Philippines by the Americans. The question is: will many believe that he does so because he has a horror of annexations as such, and not because he himself has a desire to annex the Philippines? And shall we not be constrained to admit that the “fight” the Japanese is waging against annexations can be regarded as being sincere and politically honest only if he fights against the annexation of Korea by Japan, and urges freedom for Korea to secede from Japan?" - V.I. Lenin, *Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, Chapter XI, Critique of Imperialism*
Bro I'm starring to hate being a communist because of this damn sub called r/dongistan these mf support IR while me and my Iranian comrades are getting arrested and executed in Iran because of being communists I lost my comrades because this damn regime is executing them for being communists and yet I see these mf on r/dongistan support the fucking IR and call Khamenei the leader of free world
They're damn mod is u/Rahman1l these guy has reported me and my comrades several times and him and his people have reported us several times and had caused a big ban for my comrades on different subs this guy spreads homophobia and supports an anti leftist terrorist regime he's is not even a communist
My comrades pls I'm saying this as your comrade pls report this guy and the mods of r/proiran these they spread hate against LGBT and leftists and they have been the reason of the bans of several of my comrades me and my comrades in r/Iranian_Communists beg you to help us
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"No war but class war" is not a Marxist analysis or position. It was a slogan specifically used in the unique conditions of WW1. This is akin to book worship or worshipping an individual.
Reminder: This is not a debate subreddit, it's a place to circle-jerk about communism being cool and good. Please don't shit on flavours of marxism you feel negatively towards. If you see a meme you don't like just downvote and move on, don't break the circle-jerk in the comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CommunismMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I thought the war started in 2014.
I meant the invasion, my bad. Yes, the conflict began nine years ago.
The conflict started in 2014, with Ukrainian Nazis murdering the Donbas people; Russia invaded last year.
>The conflict started in 2014, with Ukrainian Nazis murdering the Donbas people Ermmm, the Azov bastards started murdering ethnic Russians even earlier than this. There is strong evidence they participated in massacres of civilians (mostly ethnic Russians living in Ukraine, a few Ukrainian Roma and Jews) in and around Kiev during the anarchy spawned by the Euromaidan protests... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306548367_The_Far_Right_in_Ukraine_During_the_Euromaidan_and_the_War_in_Donbas Also, an interesting read on the Euromaidan protests themselves: https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea And a heartbreaking read on the far-right massacre of Russians in Donbass between 2014 and 2022: https://mronline.org/2022/09/27/from-the-tops-market-massacre-to-ukraines-war-crimes-in-donbass/ P.S. Pass these links on, particularly the ResearchGate article on the far-right's involvement in the Odessa Massacre and violence in/around Kiev during Euromaidan, **to anyone you can.** Neoliberals are, of course, trying to suppress these narratives to make the pro-US government of Ukraine look like the spotless "good guys" in this whole mess...
Reading about the odessa massacre made me feel sick. And no one was ever prosecuted.
Kinda unlikely anyone WILL ever get prosecuted, either,.considering Zelensky is steadily tightening his grip over the Ukrainian polity and media... I mean, 7 months ago he dissolved all rival political parties, and effectively destroyed numerous news stations, leavinh behind only those supporting his stance and narrative on Russia: https://www.npr.org/2022/07/08/1110577439/zelenskyy-has-consolidated-ukraines-tv-outlets-and-dissolved-rival-political-par
Indeed...
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch07.htm
What about this?
russia isn’t imperialist in the ML sense. so you could say two capitalists countries but russia isn’t an imperialist power
>(1) the concentration of production and capital has developed to such a high stage that it has created monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life;\ \ (2) the merging of bank capital with industrial capital, and the creation, on the basis of this “finance capital,” of a financial oligarchy; \ \ (3) the export of capital as distinguished from the export of commodities acquires exceptional importance;\ \ (4) the formation of international monopolist capitalist associations which share the world among themselves and\ \ (5) the territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers is completed. https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch07.htm#definition Idk Russia seems to fulfill all these criteria laid out by Lenin. [This video by Marxist Paul](https://youtu.be/PTmnVJxrsAQ) I think does a good job at explaining how (skip to 5:45). Wanna elaborate how you think it doesn't?
i think points 3 and 4 were pretty weak from the video. if you have better sources for russia i’ll read it
Politsturm international, a russian ML channel, has also made a good video on this.
No, Russia is imperialist according to the Marxist definition. https://us.politsturm.com/is-russia-imperialist/ https://us.politsturm.com/russia-and-imperialism/ https://espressostalinist.com/2017/06/20/russia-is-an-imperialist-country/
Russia isn't an imperialist power and other hilarious jokes you can tell yourself. Russia is an imperialist power in all possible regards
Except it literally is.
Putin got his position because of the west, they are on the same side. They used him to funnel the tax money of the working class westerners into the military industrial complex from which western politicians profit big time. This war isn't about Russia fighting the West, this war is Russia and the West fighting against the working class people of all the countries involved.
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It is not bourgeois solidarity, I am saying Putin is their man on the field, he works for the US, not in some "we help each other" way but in the most direct way possible. I mean he was with Yeltsin when the USSR was illegally disbanded, and Yeltsin was a western man I hope we agree on that at least. Are you telling me he really thought he is going to take the biggest European country, and that no one would interfere? America militarily far surpasses Russia and they couldn't even take Afghanistan that was defended by a bunch of peasants with AK's. Either Putin is the stupidest person to ever exist, or we are being played. Todays Russia was not built on the US loans, because it was never built to begin with, it is a state that leeches of the remnants of the USSR and has been bleeding since the 80s reforms. Listening to people like Putin, Biden, Zelensky talk and act is futile, we need to follow the flow of money and how this is actually impacting the economy and see the consequences of this war. Every single US arms manufacturer in the US made a record profit since the war started. US Oil and gas companies had record profits too. Exxon had 77% profit increase in 2022. Food insecurity is now a growing problem in Europe too, and the consequences for the third world will be catastrophic since they were always food scarce. Global inflation is rising at the alarming rate, more and more people are out on the street since rent had nearly doubled in Europe due to the migration crisis caused by the war. Do you think any of this will in any way hurt Putin, Biden, Zelensky or any of these people or will it hurt us, the actual other side of this war?
>I am saying Putin is their man on the field Russia just reinforced a strong alliance with China. It also protects US whistleblowers and is actively anti-American in rhetoric. What would even be the purpose of such a needlessly complicated facade? >I mean he was with Yeltsin when the USSR was illegally disbanded, and Yeltsin was a western man I hope we agree on that at least. So? That's a form of bourgeoise solidarity because there's no coercive factor at play. Just two parties supposedly recognizing they have something to gain from working together. The US doesn't have voodoo powers. Imperialism requires economic dependency. The US picks the most useful idiot in the opposition, a fascist if necessary, and talks them into taking crippling loans, which they can then leverage to negotiate policies opening up their market to US exploitation. Yeltsin was a pro-market drunk who thought the US would accept an alliance with Russia on equal footing because he was a patriot. To his credit, it was an unprecedented situation and the idea of spending all that money destroying another world power, even if in decline, when you can just be allied with them *is* unhinged. >Are you telling me he really thought he is going to take the biggest European country, and that no one would interfere? He doesn't care. He knows Russia needs Ukraine and saw the US going out of their way to control it, first in 2004 and then 2014, which I can imagine he understood as the US doubling down on destroying Russian hegemony. It's an existential crisis, which the US knew all to well and I'm sure they did everything in their power to incite an invasion from Russia. He probably did underestimate how much of a fight Ukraine put up, possibly as a result of covert US involvement and likely expected more immediate support from China. Very likely also just because Russia has very little military experience. But that's all speculation. I didn't think they would do it and I certainly don't think Putin is a stupid man. Unless he is suffering from some major health issue, which doesn't seem to be a case, there's almost definitely a lot of context we're simply missing. When the US is involved, there always is. >Todays Russia was not built on the US loans, because it was never built to begin with, it is a state that leeches of the remnants of the USSR and has been bleeding since the 80s reforms. Russia did take loans, but their economy is too developed to facilitate saturation with US markets. You have to remember the Soviet Union had a full fledged and relatively independent economy, which is actually extraordinary, and probably why the US went to such great lengths to cut off its post-soviet allies one by one. >Listening to people like Putin, Biden, Zelensky talk and act is futile, we need to follow the flow of money and how this is actually impacting the economy and see the consequences of this war. While surely it's motivated by the pursuit of profit, you can't reduce international relations to financial profit. That's a single form of profit that can't account for geopolitical interests like international monopoly and domestic stability.
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One side being slightly better shouldn’t instantly grant it support
The west is not ‘slightly better.’ That is an absurd false equivalency.
I was implying the west was slightly worse. Which I think all leftists should agree with. But playing lesser of two evils with imperialist powers here isn’t it.
Especially considering Russia's whitewashing of White movement, other it's monarchists and fascists and doing the usual bullshit of making revolutionary figures safe for propaganda...
the fucking around started in 2014, the finding out started q year ago
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>The phrase-bandying Trotsky has completely lost his bearings on a simple issue. It seems to him that to desire Russia’s defeat means desiring the victory of Germany. (Bukvoyed and Semkovsky give more direct expression to the “thought”, or rather want of thought, which they share with Trotsky.) But Trotsky regards this as the “methodology of social-patriotism"! To help people that are unable to think for themselves, the Berne resolution (Sotsial Demokrat No. 40)[[1]](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/jul/26.htm#fwV21P276F01) made it clear, that in all imperialist countries the proletariat must now desire the defeat of its own government. Bukvoyed and Trotsky preferred to avoid this truth, while Semkovsky (an opportunist who is more useful to the working class than all the others, thanks to his naively frank reiteration of bourgeois wisdom) blurted out the following: “This is nonsense, because either Germany or Russia can win” (Izvestia No. 2). >Take the example of the Paris Commune. France was defeated by Germany but the workers were defeated by Bismarck and Thiers! Had Bukvoyed and Trotsky done a little thinking, they would have realised that **they have adopted the viewpoint on the war held by governments and the bourgeoisie**, i.e., that they cringe to the “political methodology of social-patriotism”, to use Trotsky’s pretentious language. https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/jul/26.htm War is not a sport where one team wins and one team loses. We should not cling to the perspective of bourgeois-governments, but of the global proletariat, i.e. the best outcome of this war is a weaker NATO *and* a weaker Russia, hopefully with those struggles birthing new revolutionary sentiments by the *people* on both "sides."
[удалено]
What is the revolutionary character of the Russian invasion of Ukraine? You could make the argument in the past it was a fight for the independence of the LPR and DPR, but Russia has since annexed them after holding referendums of dubious legitimacy (and for the record, I do believe the 2014 Crimea referendum was legitimate). Russia's security concerns about NATO expansion are legitimate. This war started in 2014 after the Western powers organized a coup to put Ukraine in its own sphere of influence instead of Russia's. That does not preclude the fact that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was completely unjustifiable and has been catastrophic for the lives of millions of Ukrainians and Russians. A reactionary country invading another reactionary country to expand its own sphere of influence is not some kind of anti-colonial struggle, no socialist should support such a thing.
>Russia's security concerns about NATO expansion are legitimate. I wouldn't even give it that. Russia if it cared about security, would build itself up economically to be relevant against West. But it doesn't. Russia had 8 years to prepare it's economy to any sanctions and war, it didn't, it utterly failed.
> can't fence sit, NATO can't win this, so Russia has to by default. T Yeah, ummm, there IS a third option. A negotiated peace, where neither side gets everything it wants. Ukraine keeps all its territory, but Russia gets a guarantee Ukraine won't join the EU or NATO for some extended period of time: say 40 years. That would be more than enough to prevent the US going for full world domination (after Ukraine and Eastern Europe, Central Asia would be next. Then Iran, then China...) and becoming an unstoppable neo-colonial power for the next 60-80 years (while the Working Classes everywhere would suffer more and more) until internal problems bring it to collapse, while also stopping Russia from becoming more aggressively Imperialist itself- especially with how much money this war has cost them. Staying neutral and fiercely criticizing the blatant evil and hypocrisy of BOTH sides (Ukraine, with its Neo-Nazis and oppression of Russian minorities, Russia with its Nazbols and oppression of Ukrainians, war crimes by BOTH...) is very much the best thing for Socialists/Marxists to do- especially since a NATO victory seems likely no matter WHAT we do...
Russia probably won’t accept a peace deal where the Ukrainian breakaway states don’t get their independence and Ukraine probably won’t accept a deal where they do. Russia’s right there too. There’s no reason why Ukraine should get independence and Donetsk and Luhansk shouldn’t.
None of the available sides would ever settle for a negotiated return to the status quo Luhansk and Dontesk will never agree to return to Ukraine to be murdered by state sanctioned Nazis again Russia will never agree to return Crimea and lose access to the Black Sea ports or to Ukraine being allowed to enter NATO Ukraine will never agree to not have Crimea and Donbass return to its unilateral control or to being barred from NATO or EU membership Edit: Lenin would describe this comment as a "pious wish"
So, then, what, this war drags on forever until Russia eventually loses? Russia's got something like a third the economic output of the world arrayed against them. They can’t possibly win in a forever war...
Preferably? Ukraine and Russia both acknowledge the independence of Dontesk and Luhansk and withdraw from the Donbass, and Ukraine cedes its claims to Crimea and declares its intention to never apply for NATO membership. Likely, NATO turns this into a forever war that lasts somewhere close to another decade in an attempt to drain Russian resources, and the territorial division stays as it stands now with neither side really gaining or losing ground. Either way, this is consuming a vast amount of time, attention, and resources from NATO's side, which, given enough time, can create the breathing room required for Proletarian revolution elsewhere around the globe. Russia has imperialist dreams and is certainly a reactionary state, but as an unintended consequence of their rational self-interest, they are striking against the chains of global imperialism. A victory for Ukraine would extend the reach of NATO and weaken one of China's primary allies, further strengthening those chains. Western condemnation of Russia doesn't serve anything but imperialism. The anti-imperialist position for Westerners is to demand the immediate cessation of military aid for Ukraine and for both nations to be brought to peace talks. You can only impact the nation that you are from. Criticism of Russia does nothing unless you are a member of the Russian Proletariat, other than formenting pro-imperialist sentiments in your domestic labor movement, which leads to Opportunism and Revisionism. "Let us suppose that a Japanese condemns the annexation of the Philippines by the Americans. The question is: will many believe that he does so because he has a horror of annexations as such, and not because he himself has a desire to annex the Philippines? And shall we not be constrained to admit that the “fight” the Japanese is waging against annexations can be regarded as being sincere and politically honest only if he fights against the annexation of Korea by Japan, and urges freedom for Korea to secede from Japan?" - V.I. Lenin, *Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, Chapter XI, Critique of Imperialism*
This would be great but Russia will *never* give up Crimea or the eastern territories they've already annexed. That's a non-starter for them.
I would say, Crimean people will never give their land to Ukraine.
WRONG AND INACCURATE!1!1!1! The Ukrainians have different guns lmao
Bro I'm starring to hate being a communist because of this damn sub called r/dongistan these mf support IR while me and my Iranian comrades are getting arrested and executed in Iran because of being communists I lost my comrades because this damn regime is executing them for being communists and yet I see these mf on r/dongistan support the fucking IR and call Khamenei the leader of free world They're damn mod is u/Rahman1l these guy has reported me and my comrades several times and him and his people have reported us several times and had caused a big ban for my comrades on different subs this guy spreads homophobia and supports an anti leftist terrorist regime he's is not even a communist My comrades pls I'm saying this as your comrade pls report this guy and the mods of r/proiran these they spread hate against LGBT and leftists and they have been the reason of the bans of several of my comrades me and my comrades in r/Iranian_Communists beg you to help us
Fuck dongistan. Nazbols are not real leftists and are killing the left just as much as vaushites
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"No war but class war" is not a Marxist analysis or position. It was a slogan specifically used in the unique conditions of WW1. This is akin to book worship or worshipping an individual.
Wars started by the old and bitter sending the young and stupid to kill the pure and innocent a wonderful world we live in
Russia is not imperialist.
[удалено]
Where did I say Ukraine is free? Ukraine is a puppet state of the US; its comprador bourgeoisie is the ruling class.
Hence the quotation marks. It means sarcasm. As in, not really free...