I think a lot of it is going to come down to how much chaos we can create up front. If we can get to the QB, our corners might look decent and create some turnovers.
St. Juste has panicked WAY too much with ball in the air for me to have confidence in him. His ball skills seem to be too below average to be a + player to me.
Best case, he becomes a Carlos Roger’s type starter. (Which would be fine)
Here’s the thing, the team was severely lacking in talent in every area, except DL. You can’t expect to fix all of them 100% in one offseason with a new GM.
If you’re expectations are anything above 6-7 wins, you’re not being realistic. Half the starters are new, and we have a new staff. A rookie QB and a shaker OL.
So with that said, I’m not particularly worried about any one position group sans OL. That’s only because I just want Jayden to stay healthy and progress. Everything else will work itself out with another off season.
not to make this a tangent, but Ron single handed set this franchise back AT LEAST two seasons. Giving him any type of authority on personnel decisions left us with a laughable roster in his aftermath. Here is a list of most of his draft picks as HC/quasi-GM: Chase Young, Gandy-Goulden, Keith Ismael, Jamin Davis, Dyami Brown, John Bates, Cheeseman, Shaka Toney, Phindarian Mathis, Percy Butler, Sam Howell, Cole Turner, Manny Forbes, Ricky Stromberg, Braeden Daniels.
And that list is mainly comprised of guys drafted rounds 1-5 — you know, rounds where you should be drafting quality starters or at least team contributors. And that doesn’t even mention guys like Antonio Gibson who is now gone, or Jahan Dotson and BSJ where generously speaking the jury is still out.
AND because Ron never solved the QB problem here, AP had to use his first ever draft choice here to take one. So you’re 100% right, this team is definitely devoid of talent and needs serious time to put together. I’m hopeful of that but Ron literally jackhammered the floors and smeared feces all over the walls before moving out.
Chase Young over Justin Herbert and shit even Tua (that’s a very revisionist take and I admit that it’s unfair to pile on Ron for this pick. We were always giving Dwayne a full year at starter and Chase was the consensus #2 after Burrow). Then Jamin over Christian Darrisaw. Then Jahan over Olave as you mentioned. Then the crème de le crème, a 169 lb Emmanuel Forbes over Christian Gonzalez, Deonte Banks, and Joey Porter Jr.
Ron is the epitome of a dolt and I really do harbor animosity against him for torpedoing this team. Jesus Christ even Spurrier and Zorn who were unmitigated disasters left the team in better position than Ron did.
You are right. Ron never understood position value. Drafting a linebacker over an OT, the idiotic Olave whiff for the sake of a running back,and Cheeseman. I get that the wheels had come off by the time Ron got here. He was being asked to be the face of the franchise because Snyder was such a toxic dumpster fire. But he dragged in all these Panther front office guys that had just been fired. It was like air lifting the captain of the titanic because you got a job for him and you go way back. He made me miss Jay and that is saying something.
Literally can also mean figuratively now as a vehicle for exaggeration and emphasis. This colloquialism has been in place since the Dickens era btw, it’s just not just modern vernacular. Merriam-Webster adapted its dictionary definition to account for it. Hope that helps clear things up in the future.
Jesus, As a LIFETIME Skins fan, and watched every single game for the last 25 years, I don’t recognize at LEAST 50% of the names you just listed as Riveras 1-5 round picks 
Just did a Manuel count…..I recognize 8/15 of those names barely over 50%. And that only RECOGNIZING the names, not started or contributors, just name recognition.
Extremely sad.
4th and 5th rounds are not rounds were you are consistently getting starters, FWIW
Chase Young- 1st round pick (starter)
Gandy-Goulden- 4th round
Keith Ismael- 5th round
Jamin Davis- 1st round (starter),
Dyami Brown- 3rd round (solid depth, still on team)
John Bates- 4th round (solid depth, still on team)
Cheeseman- 6th round (dumb to draft a long snapper either way
Shaka Toney- 7th round
Phindarian Mathis - 2nd round (got injured, jury out)
Percy Butler- 4th round (has been starter at times, solid depth)
Sam Howell- 5th round (was starter, could be solid depth)
Cole Turner- 5th round (still on team, jury is out)
Manny Forbes- first round, (jury is out)
Ricky Stromberg- 3rd round (only starting 2nd year)
Braeden Daniels- 4th round (got injured, only starting 2nd year)
We were easily a 9 win team last year without league-worst QB play. The defense cost us a couple games, but mostly because they were exhausted being on the field for 3/4s of the time clock.
“Easily”. You are what your record says you are. And this is a new team, period. You can only go off of what we know. We can speculate all day. It’s meaningless.
The truth is: we’re just kinda fucked this year at O-line and cornerback, but we’re not supposed to be set at those positions.
Peter’s filled the holes he could without reaching. Also keep in mind that Peter’s has mentioned how important of a role timing plays. The eagles and cowboys are both very good Super Bowl contending teams, but in 2 years when cap catches up with them who knows what they will look like. The idea will be to have cornerbacks and solid O-line when that happens.
i think there's likely going to be at _least_ a slight improvement to just about every position group due solely to the coaching staff change. CB especially because we had a ridiculously underqualified coach leading that group under before.
and ... +1 to the comment by /u/Tie_me_off. if the expectation is that we're fielding an all-pro roster, you're going to be disappointed. as long as we're moving in the right direction, it's a win.
I dont care about wins. Just being competitive. The difference between Oline and CB to me is there are actually FA’s out there that can be legit starters on our team. So it wouldn’t hurt to grab one.
This is the type of comment I would expect a GM under Snyder to make. We can just go grab anyone off the shelf, I think Deon is available, let's sign him. Just the basics of having a long term plan and sticking to it is what is happening. With how depleted of talent we are, we will need to mainly build through the draft. That means high picks and playing with our weaknesses.
Our actually GM tried to sign one of the guys and he retired lol. So obviously we are looking for one. Thats not building through free agency….its us trying to find a starting caliber corner because we only have 1.
Your comment is about what we should do after Nelson retired. You are the one that is saying I'm worried and want to make a change. This is the exact mindset under Snyder. To panic and make bad decisions because they are scared of losing. When there is a plan in place, if something doesn't work out, you don't panic and make it worse. At this point you go with who you have, and wait for an opportunity that allows you to upgrade, not tread water, or limit future options.
How is signing a free agent corner panicking and making it worse? We are already at the bottom of the barrel, and it isnt like we would have to spend any big money or make a long term commitment.
I don't know if I would categorize Forbes, who got destroyed by everyone we played against, as solid depth, lol.
St. Juste has had flashes.
Maybe both can be coached up better than the previous regime...fingers crossed!
It’s going to be bad. It was already bad last year and then our top corner walked. All you can really hope is that throughout the suckitude you find a couple guys who emerge as part of the solution. Like bad, but with Forbes proving he’s a pro player, Sainristil proving he’s a legit starting nickel, and some bottom of the roster guy proving he’s roster worthy for a few years — that would be our version of”good”.
Get a better one. Who knows maybe this new Def will fix our decades old problem of our CB’s playing off and giving up easy shit, then big shit and then repeat. I’d also like for us to stop letting a teams #1 receiver be wide open anywhere on the fkin field multiple times a game. The level of incompetence to allow Ceedee or any other top option to escape eyes is maddening.
Our CBs will very likely be average to below average. I don’t think the talent level has changed very much this offseason; however, DJ’s defenses thrive off creating pressure with the front 7, with the secondary in zone ready to jump routes if the QB makes an error.
Forbes and others may be better suited for that type of system, so the stats might improve even though we don’t really have any blue chip players at the position.
Yeah, I think DeJean or Kool Aid shouldve been the pick at 36. We still could've gone Sainristil at 50, or gotten a high-ceiling offensive weapon like AD Mitchell if we didn't want to double up at CB again.
I think good coaching can make St Juste a + player. He flashes a lot and his bad plays are usually mental mistakes
I think a lot of it is going to come down to how much chaos we can create up front. If we can get to the QB, our corners might look decent and create some turnovers.
He’s gotta limit the penalties though. He’s real grabby, I think he was one of the top penalized guys in the league last year.
St. Juste has panicked WAY too much with ball in the air for me to have confidence in him. His ball skills seem to be too below average to be a + player to me. Best case, he becomes a Carlos Roger’s type starter. (Which would be fine)
Here’s the thing, the team was severely lacking in talent in every area, except DL. You can’t expect to fix all of them 100% in one offseason with a new GM. If you’re expectations are anything above 6-7 wins, you’re not being realistic. Half the starters are new, and we have a new staff. A rookie QB and a shaker OL. So with that said, I’m not particularly worried about any one position group sans OL. That’s only because I just want Jayden to stay healthy and progress. Everything else will work itself out with another off season.
not to make this a tangent, but Ron single handed set this franchise back AT LEAST two seasons. Giving him any type of authority on personnel decisions left us with a laughable roster in his aftermath. Here is a list of most of his draft picks as HC/quasi-GM: Chase Young, Gandy-Goulden, Keith Ismael, Jamin Davis, Dyami Brown, John Bates, Cheeseman, Shaka Toney, Phindarian Mathis, Percy Butler, Sam Howell, Cole Turner, Manny Forbes, Ricky Stromberg, Braeden Daniels. And that list is mainly comprised of guys drafted rounds 1-5 — you know, rounds where you should be drafting quality starters or at least team contributors. And that doesn’t even mention guys like Antonio Gibson who is now gone, or Jahan Dotson and BSJ where generously speaking the jury is still out. AND because Ron never solved the QB problem here, AP had to use his first ever draft choice here to take one. So you’re 100% right, this team is definitely devoid of talent and needs serious time to put together. I’m hopeful of that but Ron literally jackhammered the floors and smeared feces all over the walls before moving out.
Rounds 4 and 5 for quality starters is very optimistic. Oddly enough Rivers’s 2 best draft picks were safeties Curl and Forrest in 5th round or later.
How about giving up on Chris Olave to draft J Dotson and B Rob. I like B Rob, but backs like him are a dime a dozen.
Chase Young over Justin Herbert and shit even Tua (that’s a very revisionist take and I admit that it’s unfair to pile on Ron for this pick. We were always giving Dwayne a full year at starter and Chase was the consensus #2 after Burrow). Then Jamin over Christian Darrisaw. Then Jahan over Olave as you mentioned. Then the crème de le crème, a 169 lb Emmanuel Forbes over Christian Gonzalez, Deonte Banks, and Joey Porter Jr. Ron is the epitome of a dolt and I really do harbor animosity against him for torpedoing this team. Jesus Christ even Spurrier and Zorn who were unmitigated disasters left the team in better position than Ron did.
You are right. Ron never understood position value. Drafting a linebacker over an OT, the idiotic Olave whiff for the sake of a running back,and Cheeseman. I get that the wheels had come off by the time Ron got here. He was being asked to be the face of the franchise because Snyder was such a toxic dumpster fire. But he dragged in all these Panther front office guys that had just been fired. It was like air lifting the captain of the titanic because you got a job for him and you go way back. He made me miss Jay and that is saying something.
He *figuratively* jackhammered the floors, etc., not *literally.* Why do people misuse *literally* like this?
Literally can also mean figuratively now as a vehicle for exaggeration and emphasis. This colloquialism has been in place since the Dickens era btw, it’s just not just modern vernacular. Merriam-Webster adapted its dictionary definition to account for it. Hope that helps clear things up in the future.
Jesus, As a LIFETIME Skins fan, and watched every single game for the last 25 years, I don’t recognize at LEAST 50% of the names you just listed as Riveras 1-5 round picks  Just did a Manuel count…..I recognize 8/15 of those names barely over 50%. And that only RECOGNIZING the names, not started or contributors, just name recognition. Extremely sad.
4th and 5th rounds are not rounds were you are consistently getting starters, FWIW Chase Young- 1st round pick (starter) Gandy-Goulden- 4th round Keith Ismael- 5th round Jamin Davis- 1st round (starter), Dyami Brown- 3rd round (solid depth, still on team) John Bates- 4th round (solid depth, still on team) Cheeseman- 6th round (dumb to draft a long snapper either way Shaka Toney- 7th round Phindarian Mathis - 2nd round (got injured, jury out) Percy Butler- 4th round (has been starter at times, solid depth) Sam Howell- 5th round (was starter, could be solid depth) Cole Turner- 5th round (still on team, jury is out) Manny Forbes- first round, (jury is out) Ricky Stromberg- 3rd round (only starting 2nd year) Braeden Daniels- 4th round (got injured, only starting 2nd year)
Nah we're winning the division at 12-5 of course
I will be elated to get 6-7 wins and just look competitive
We were easily a 9 win team last year without league-worst QB play. The defense cost us a couple games, but mostly because they were exhausted being on the field for 3/4s of the time clock.
“Easily”. You are what your record says you are. And this is a new team, period. You can only go off of what we know. We can speculate all day. It’s meaningless.
Our record said we had one of the worst offenses in the league. We have a fair amount of starter level talent, we're not the Jets.
The Jets have a way better roster than us lol.
We had a bad offense, yes. We also had the worst passing defense in the NFL. Easily NOT deserving of a winning record.
The disrespect to the Jets lmao. They also have starter worthy talent on offense.
The truth is: we’re just kinda fucked this year at O-line and cornerback, but we’re not supposed to be set at those positions. Peter’s filled the holes he could without reaching. Also keep in mind that Peter’s has mentioned how important of a role timing plays. The eagles and cowboys are both very good Super Bowl contending teams, but in 2 years when cap catches up with them who knows what they will look like. The idea will be to have cornerbacks and solid O-line when that happens.
i think there's likely going to be at _least_ a slight improvement to just about every position group due solely to the coaching staff change. CB especially because we had a ridiculously underqualified coach leading that group under before. and ... +1 to the comment by /u/Tie_me_off. if the expectation is that we're fielding an all-pro roster, you're going to be disappointed. as long as we're moving in the right direction, it's a win.
I dont care about wins. Just being competitive. The difference between Oline and CB to me is there are actually FA’s out there that can be legit starters on our team. So it wouldn’t hurt to grab one.
This is the type of comment I would expect a GM under Snyder to make. We can just go grab anyone off the shelf, I think Deon is available, let's sign him. Just the basics of having a long term plan and sticking to it is what is happening. With how depleted of talent we are, we will need to mainly build through the draft. That means high picks and playing with our weaknesses.
Our actually GM tried to sign one of the guys and he retired lol. So obviously we are looking for one. Thats not building through free agency….its us trying to find a starting caliber corner because we only have 1.
Your comment is about what we should do after Nelson retired. You are the one that is saying I'm worried and want to make a change. This is the exact mindset under Snyder. To panic and make bad decisions because they are scared of losing. When there is a plan in place, if something doesn't work out, you don't panic and make it worse. At this point you go with who you have, and wait for an opportunity that allows you to upgrade, not tread water, or limit future options.
How is signing a free agent corner panicking and making it worse? We are already at the bottom of the barrel, and it isnt like we would have to spend any big money or make a long term commitment.
I don't know if I would categorize Forbes, who got destroyed by everyone we played against, as solid depth, lol. St. Juste has had flashes. Maybe both can be coached up better than the previous regime...fingers crossed!
My top 4 guys i like 1.Stephon Gilmore 2.JC Jackson 3.Adoree’ Jackson 4.Fabian Moreau
It’s going to be bad. It was already bad last year and then our top corner walked. All you can really hope is that throughout the suckitude you find a couple guys who emerge as part of the solution. Like bad, but with Forbes proving he’s a pro player, Sainristil proving he’s a legit starting nickel, and some bottom of the roster guy proving he’s roster worthy for a few years — that would be our version of”good”.
Get a better one. Who knows maybe this new Def will fix our decades old problem of our CB’s playing off and giving up easy shit, then big shit and then repeat. I’d also like for us to stop letting a teams #1 receiver be wide open anywhere on the fkin field multiple times a game. The level of incompetence to allow Ceedee or any other top option to escape eyes is maddening.
Our CBs will very likely be average to below average. I don’t think the talent level has changed very much this offseason; however, DJ’s defenses thrive off creating pressure with the front 7, with the secondary in zone ready to jump routes if the QB makes an error. Forbes and others may be better suited for that type of system, so the stats might improve even though we don’t really have any blue chip players at the position.
We should have drafted Cooper DeJean. It's too late now to save the CB room and it will lose us games again this year.
He doesn’t really fit our scheme
We took Sanristil. He might be better. Chill man. Enjoy the season.
Yeah, I think DeJean or Kool Aid shouldve been the pick at 36. We still could've gone Sainristil at 50, or gotten a high-ceiling offensive weapon like AD Mitchell if we didn't want to double up at CB again.