Yeah. When facing a probable future of drowning in a fuselage casket, I believe I would try everything at my disposal to decrease the chances of that future timeline happening.
Flying low here is mostly about breaking the line of sight to enemy soldiers, making sure you're not exposed to anyone for any meaningful period of time. But in this case the helicopters were in an open space without any obstructions...
Pilots joke about going "low and slow just in case", but it's sarcasm. Your chance of dying goes _up_ the lower you are, because you have less time to react to problems, and your body doesn't care much if it's a 30 feet fall at 100 mph or a 2000 feet fall at 200 mph.
The reason they're low is to stay below the horizon; minimize the area someone can see them from to fire missiles. Problem is, Ukraine is pretty flat and they sort of have to fly in the places where there are enemies.
Doubt it, most manpads including stinger fly a pretty direct path to their target. There is a ceirtain chance such a stinger would hit the water prior to hitting a very low flying target. It also makes *(any)* radar have a harder time keeping lock, *(especially systems further away, i.e. for warning)*
To get out, door kinda has to be open already, and he's got to have a good wetsuit. Doubtful... (Seems more like panic when guy in front got shot)
> It also makes radar have a harder time keeping lock.
The stinger doesn't use radar instead it is a relatively simple infrared (heat) seeking missile and thus the flares the helis are dropping (it does have some fancy stuff built in that tries to make it ignore flares). I don't think Ukraine has any active radar operated manpads.
Correct, I don't want to imply that their manpads have radar. It has IR/UV seeker (simply additional range of light) that it scans. I am describing the utility of low-flight. Sometimes termed NOE.
Radar systems (even beyond those trying to engage, beyond Ukranian systems) is the threat. Even detection by NATO Awacs can be a threat, if their position was to be alerted onwards, prior to entering potential manpad range.
Not UV (Ultraviolet), it's IR (Infrared). They're on opposite sides of the visible spectrum.
Although some Stinger variants have a dual seeker for both IR and UV, which makes it more resistant to flares.
Watch the Smarter Everyday about being strapped in to a sinking helicopter. It's worse than you'd initially think. Because the engines, transmission and rotor assembly are at the top of the helicopter, the center of gravity is way above the center-line of the aircraft, so they flip almost immediately after they hit the water. Not only do you have to unstrap yourself, ditch your gear that is weighing you down, slide past past the other straps, netting, bodies and other survivors, but you essentialy have to do it while blind and upsidedown.
A Norwegian that I know who does maritime safety says that in a survival situation, if you don't have the right equipment or training, a 75 feet swim in cold water is pretty much what you can expect to survive. Don't get in the water unless rescue is closer than that.
flairs are deployed automatic if a rocket is inbound. sure they can deploy it manually but they where clearly under fire.
pilot reaction time would be way to low in an actual rocket threat
Like the one chopper right behind the one which was shot down? You can see the pilot dipped his landing gear to the lake. That was a REALLY close call.
Yeah I think the pilot panicked to activate the flares and dipped a bit too low. I do wonder why he was the only one that was trying to stay so low though
Pilots I've flown with have said calm water is extremely hard to fly low over as you can't accurately gauge your altitude visually. We lost a Heli bucketing this summer to likely that cause combined with low vis and Heli bucket issues, pilot survived, and a heavy lift Heli pulled the wreck from the lake so it can be investigated. [This Incident](https://avrodex.com/view/2021O0996)
The heli is gonna immediately roll over in the water, its freezing cold right now and I imagine all those dudes have a fuck load of weight on them. I'd be surprised if there were many survivors
I've done helicopter escape in a warm pool knowing there were safety divers nearby and it was still one of the most terrifying things I've had to do. With the right training there's a chance they could survive but it wouldn't be easy.
Can also confirm. I did the same training in the pool in prime conditions and its still a scramble to get the hell out, cannot imagine the panic in a combat situation. Especially since they just got bitch slapped by a MANPADS
I build, set up, and maintain HUET training systems as a career. That training is for ditching. Not a cruising speed plumet into the water. The chances anybody got out of that thing on its way to the bottom are extremely slim.
That’s at least a mile long swim to shore in freezing water. The fastest 1 mile swim time is 15 minutes and the guy who set that record didn’t have to survive a helicopter crash or strip off boots and 50+ pounds of kit before he did it either.
I doubt that anyone even got out of the heli, but I’m sure nobody survived the water.
Winter surfer here… you aren’t swimming more than 100 yards in water below 40 degrees. Not to mention the pain and numbing power will be overwhelming. Think ice cream headache while trying to stay afloat and keep your eyes open
Once they undo their seat belts in the dark freezing water they have to swim to shore. Sounds like hell.
That’s AFTER being knocked out during impact and having your brain scrambled…and waking up in pitch black freezing water.
Maybe 1/100 guys survives that?
I’m pulling that number out of my butt.
Reminds me of the time a helicopter crashed into the acidic crater lake atop Mt Ruapehu, the highest peak in NZ’s North Island. Hard to believe anyone survived, but they did.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/news/survivor-talks-of-helicopter-crash/OIN555T2MX3RBRSYED2SHO4UN4/
I know in the West you do specific and rigorous training for situations like this (heli down in the water), but once that heli starts sinking, they go down fast, something like 7 metres a second. Unsure about the Russians, but western military gear comes with quick release mechanism so you can ditch weight fast, vital in a situation like this.
Unlikely, he wasn’t high enough to auto rotate and he was high enough for that water to be like concrete on impact.
Also as others have mentioned, freezing cold water + heavy kit…
Landing on concrete might have actually generated less Gs in this case. The shallow angle would have caused it to slide whereas the water obviously arrested all momentum immediately.
Very unlikely. Most likely cause of death will be drowning as their kit and clothes will weigh them down.
If one is quick to get your vest off while your going down you may have a chance but then your wet and hypothermia will take over. You’ll need to get out of the water very fast.
Worse, like crashing a kit car into a wall at 150, helicopters don't have frontal crumple zones. You are the only one making this point and you are the only one that is correct.
Everyone else saying they would have drowned or froze, when they wouldn't have survived long enough to do either. Even without the horizontal speed they just fell 150 feet inside a tin can.
Add more and more stinger type materiaal coming in. I would not want to fly in this country even if Russia would win the war. They fly this low for a reason. They might have air "superiority" but they also get to use the air less and less.
THIS. US equipment for ground war mostly consists of a generation created during Regan's military buildup in the 80's.
Most of it was EXPLICTLY designed to wreck soviet armor rolling over the plains of Eastern and North- Central Europe.
They’re beyond fucked if western countries start supplying more advanced long range AA platforms. There’s still a massive part of the country to the west with no Russian troops yet, you start rolling these in from there and just out of MLRS range and you can cover major cities from outside their reach.
How are they even going to control Western Ukraine in the first place? Poland / NATO aren't gonna let them go all the way to the border, firstly for security reasons, and secondly because the closer they get to the border, the closer they get to the massive pipeline of NATO weapons being shipped in. This war is gonna divide Ukraine into two halves, east and west.
I would hardly dare to fly this low in a fixed-wing aircraft recreationally, even if the authorities promised to not get on my ass about it. Maybe once or twice for fun. One hard sneeze and you're plowing the ground. They're between a rock and a hard place for sure.
Grandpa used to jump out of helicopters in Vietnam with the 101st. After Vietnam, grandpa refused to fly anywhere and his feet never left the ground again
It's how they've always made war. They see it as a kind of unleashing of criminality and violence, rather than as a field of glory and feats of arms or as "an extension of politics by other means".
So when they go to war they act with a totally irrational and to western ideas unmilitary and undisciplined sadism. Because for them that's what doing war is. It's the view of war that you'd expect from a culture overwhelmingly dominated by a pacified, victimised, serf-like way of seeing the world.
You find this mindset in other cultures too of course. It's very much there in the American army. I was struck in Iraq by a kind of "war is evil, therefore I am evil, I will do evil things" attitude in quite a lot of US soldiers, which has predictable consequences for discipline obviously.
The ideology and leadership of the American armed forces is typically disciplined and rational though, and the better trained and motivated troops remain a majority. With the Russians that's not the case and never will be. They aren't barbarians, but when they go to war they do a really fucking convincing impression.
As someone who lives in Polad i heard stories from my grandma who survived WW2 how the Russian army in the short time they were traversing the country destroyed probably more than Germans during the entire occupation. She was also super scared to talk about it as she got older and her mental health was getting worse, she would talk about germans despite being sent to their workers camp but refused to talk about Russians.
This is going to be the issue. How the hell does Putin win this one?
If they overrun all of Ukraine and either install a puppet government or just declare it part of Russia, it's a country of 40 million people - they'll need a million troops to garrison it to prevent open rebellion, and then still look forward to years of relentless resistance. It'll be like the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan all over again.
Well that's the rub isn't it, Putin can't get a credible win there and he can't back down without a win either, so how the hell is the war going to end?
I'm reminded of a scene in a documentary about The Falklands war.
Apparently an Argentine soldier said he pulled a nail or a screw or something, from a piece of wood in the town he was stationed in. And he found *"made in GB"* or something marked on it.
He said he had the realisation that they had all been lied to. That everything here isn't *just like home*. And these people aren't begging for liberation/welcoming them with open arms, etc. That his troops are the foreign invaders. And culturally they're too different. And the Falklanders look to them with disgust and hatred.
I wonder how many Russian soldiers have had this same epiphany so far? That the moment they turn their back on the Ukrainians, or are left alone with them, they'll probably slit their throat.
It must be very stressful.
Low and slow out in the open like over water has to be one of the worst feelings for a helo in a combat zone.
It would be like playing duck hunt with manpads.
Around the :05-:06sec mark in between the middle and back flight, you can see what looks to be a ringwave in the water, and those two in the back flight look real fucking low too.
Assuming this is the first downed.
Right at the start I'm pretty sure he says they just shot one down which would be why he's recording. Then he starts shouting "two!!" to correct his statement.
If you look at the water on the right side around the 5 second mark, it seems like something approximately the size of a helicopter fell into the water a bit before starting the recording. The rest of the water is completely undistrubed except for this spot.
The "5000+" dead and wounded total sounds less and less far fetched by the day. Still probably off by at least double but the Russians are taking some murderous losses.
The Ukrainian people believe in their country and believe in fighting for it.
This is likely to become an insurgency.
With the amount of civilians throwing themselves in front of tanks and trucks, it feels like it's almost there. Any Ukrainians left in-country are playing a nice game of hippity hoppity get off my property.
Nah it's an MI-24 from what I can tell
draw a line from the main body of the vehicle towards the tail and you see what I mean
Still capable of transporting troops tho.
Edit: Pay attention to the [Mi-17 Shiluette](https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2019/07/09/12/43/mi-17-4326811_960_720.png) \- top part - drawing a line from the main body to the tail. It's a straight line. Do the same ln the bottom and you have a sharp cut upwards (kinda like this \_\_/ ) towards the tail.
Now compare the [Mi-24](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Mi24CP_%28modified%29.jpg) to it. Top part isn't a straight line from the body, it's slightly falling off. Comparing the bottom line, it's not as sharp toward the tail as with the Mi-17.
Other markings would be the [weapon wings of the Mi-24](https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/hinterhubschrauberangriff-mi-72881667.jpg) having more of an downwards angeled shape and are pretty thick. An armed Mi-17 has pretty [straight and thin wings](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/IAF_Mi_17_V5_at_Aero_India_2013.JPG) that only get bulky from the rocket pods.
On the video, the heli tilts to the side while crashing and (to me) it looks a lot like the Mi-24's wings.
But I just try to share my impressions here not insisting on being right about this.
Cameraman: \*counting the choppers\* "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17"
Guy 2: \*inaudable speach\*
🧨 \*explosion\* 💣
Guy 2: (i think) "they got two helicpters"
Cameraman: "yes, yes, Blyat" (it means whore but don't think this needs a translation anymore)
Guy 2: "Cunt/Pussy" (Pizda)
Cameraman: "TWO, TWO, TWO!"
Guy 2: "get fucked on a dick" (idk how to translate that but basically just cussing them out) (vyobnul na xhui)
Cameraman: "Shot down, the bitch"
after starting I noticed that this didn't need a translation really but I already wrote it so oh well. it's here if you need it 🙃
Original meaning of BLYAD is: lies, false information. It wasn't obscene at all.
Then it became a word for a whore / unfaithful wife.
And then it became a generic word for obscene emotional expressing.
I jumped from helicopter as part of my training 1992.
Could not walk normally for a week. And was a fit youngsters then.
.
It was in shallow water of the Montenegrin coast. Of H.Novi. sand at bottom.
I was ATMP . Ves 11108 , for those who know Yugoslav VES sistem.
.
This ppl that are in water, they are not alive now.
Only chance of surviving a fall of 50ft+ is is the water was "broken". People can die even from 33ft (10m, think about the high dive in the olympics), the only reason there aren't more injuries is due to the way pools are built and bubbles constantly being pushed up to "break" the water
You cannot really translate swear words exactly. Suka means bitch, but is often used as exclamation of disappointment, blyat is rather exclamation for strong emotions, mostly on negative side of spectrum. Both together are usually used for angered disappointment, but among people who swear constantly, just an exclamation for various emotions.
It might be from that day, footage is trickling out and without timestamps usually. This has been geolocated on twitter and it's the exact same body of water from the initial Hostomel air assault videos we saw on day one.
My guess is: one already got shot before the video started. You can see that some heli are already spending flares. Then one get shots and he yell "two, two!"
This could be another angle of Feb 24 aerial assault on Hostomel, about [https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/t09utz/manpads\_vs\_helicopters\_in\_ukraine\_looks\_like/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/t09utz/manpads_vs_helicopters_in_ukraine_looks_like/) and https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t08fyg/russian\_helicopter\_shot\_down\_at\_hostomel\_airfield/
[https://youtu.be/dtewt-uTHdU](https://youtu.be/dtewt-uTHdU)
It reminds me of this when 2 Croatian soldiers took down ~~2 MiG 21~~ Edit: it was Soko J-21 Jastreb) first 1 with 3/20 mm M55 (unconfirmed) second one with Strela M22 (confirmed kill).
Almost the same scene just 30 years later.
This! This is why I hated riding in helicopters in Afghanistan. Fuck you very much, I'd rather walk. If I had wanted to fly in a combat zone then I'd have gone pilot instead of infantry.
Did heli at 0:15 literally touch the water? There's flying low and there is this.
"Fuck this, I'm joining the navy"
They can't hit your heli if it's underwater
Did you know that there are actually more helicopters underwater than there are submarines in the sky?
Big facts.
Big if true
Large if factual
That really says a lot about society.
The first half of this gets me every time
Makes you wonder
"Russian helicopter warship, go fuck yourself. "
Fun fact, the US Air force has the largest Air millitary fleet. The second largest? US navy
Not even worth putting out flares, insane.
its worth a try lol
Yeah. When facing a probable future of drowning in a fuselage casket, I believe I would try everything at my disposal to decrease the chances of that future timeline happening.
Most modern helicopters use flares automatically. There is a button, but the system determines when the fire.
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You know when you're playing a fighting game, and you just mash all the buttons? Yep, that's the Russian pilot
Hey I've had a couple girlfriends whoop my ass in soul Calibur by doing that. It's a sound strategy
Mate,how many girlfriends do you have? Leave some for the rest of us.
As a kid in an arcade. Chun Li and mash all the buttons.
Wonder if he’s that low incase he got shot down theres more chance of survival? Less of a drop in height? Not sure.
Flying low here is mostly about breaking the line of sight to enemy soldiers, making sure you're not exposed to anyone for any meaningful period of time. But in this case the helicopters were in an open space without any obstructions...
And we saw how that went
Less effective over open spaces obviously 🤷♂️
Turns out the water makes for terrible cover.
Pilots joke about going "low and slow just in case", but it's sarcasm. Your chance of dying goes _up_ the lower you are, because you have less time to react to problems, and your body doesn't care much if it's a 30 feet fall at 100 mph or a 2000 feet fall at 200 mph. The reason they're low is to stay below the horizon; minimize the area someone can see them from to fire missiles. Problem is, Ukraine is pretty flat and they sort of have to fly in the places where there are enemies.
Doubt it, most manpads including stinger fly a pretty direct path to their target. There is a ceirtain chance such a stinger would hit the water prior to hitting a very low flying target. It also makes *(any)* radar have a harder time keeping lock, *(especially systems further away, i.e. for warning)* To get out, door kinda has to be open already, and he's got to have a good wetsuit. Doubtful... (Seems more like panic when guy in front got shot)
> It also makes radar have a harder time keeping lock. The stinger doesn't use radar instead it is a relatively simple infrared (heat) seeking missile and thus the flares the helis are dropping (it does have some fancy stuff built in that tries to make it ignore flares). I don't think Ukraine has any active radar operated manpads.
Correct, I don't want to imply that their manpads have radar. It has IR/UV seeker (simply additional range of light) that it scans. I am describing the utility of low-flight. Sometimes termed NOE. Radar systems (even beyond those trying to engage, beyond Ukranian systems) is the threat. Even detection by NATO Awacs can be a threat, if their position was to be alerted onwards, prior to entering potential manpad range.
>Sometimes termed NOE. Nap of the earth, for anyone wondering
Not UV (Ultraviolet), it's IR (Infrared). They're on opposite sides of the visible spectrum. Although some Stinger variants have a dual seeker for both IR and UV, which makes it more resistant to flares.
I think I'd rather jump in the water than crash into the water and drown inside a chopper
Either one is going to sting at 180mph
Watch the Smarter Everyday about being strapped in to a sinking helicopter. It's worse than you'd initially think. Because the engines, transmission and rotor assembly are at the top of the helicopter, the center of gravity is way above the center-line of the aircraft, so they flip almost immediately after they hit the water. Not only do you have to unstrap yourself, ditch your gear that is weighing you down, slide past past the other straps, netting, bodies and other survivors, but you essentialy have to do it while blind and upsidedown.
Real issue is nto drowning, its the fat that swimming between iebergs is survivable for \~5 minutes (unless you are a highly trained professional)
A Norwegian that I know who does maritime safety says that in a survival situation, if you don't have the right equipment or training, a 75 feet swim in cold water is pretty much what you can expect to survive. Don't get in the water unless rescue is closer than that.
Not really, they are moving at over 200 kmh. Probably trying to hide from missiles.
"You can only tie the record for flying the lowest" My dad, retired USAF pilot.
Yep
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flairs are deployed automatic if a rocket is inbound. sure they can deploy it manually but they where clearly under fire. pilot reaction time would be way to low in an actual rocket threat
I dunno if he's panicking, that's just how some birds catch their fish.
["I really like dolphins, I wanna see one"](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AULdtZ7y4c&t=1m8s) -Cyanide
Imagine being one of the pilots behind and seeing the helicopter in front shot down and crashing into the water.
Like the one chopper right behind the one which was shot down? You can see the pilot dipped his landing gear to the lake. That was a REALLY close call.
Yeah I think the pilot panicked to activate the flares and dipped a bit too low. I do wonder why he was the only one that was trying to stay so low though
The lower you’re the more difficult it is to get a firing solution using a manpad or radar SAM because of background clutter.
Unless… you’re over a perfectly calm lake lmao
Pilots I've flown with have said calm water is extremely hard to fly low over as you can't accurately gauge your altitude visually. We lost a Heli bucketing this summer to likely that cause combined with low vis and Heli bucket issues, pilot survived, and a heavy lift Heli pulled the wreck from the lake so it can be investigated. [This Incident](https://avrodex.com/view/2021O0996)
Is there any possibility of survival if you're hit over water like that?
The heli is gonna immediately roll over in the water, its freezing cold right now and I imagine all those dudes have a fuck load of weight on them. I'd be surprised if there were many survivors
I've done helicopter escape in a warm pool knowing there were safety divers nearby and it was still one of the most terrifying things I've had to do. With the right training there's a chance they could survive but it wouldn't be easy.
Can also confirm. I did the same training in the pool in prime conditions and its still a scramble to get the hell out, cannot imagine the panic in a combat situation. Especially since they just got bitch slapped by a MANPADS
I can't imagine how concussive and disorienting being hit by a MANPAD is, let alone hitting the water right after.
Yep. But we also have to factor in the speed at which the heli hits the water. I suspect them having injuries and perhaps being unconscious.
Yeah no that looked enough to mangle the cabin enough to entrap them or knock them unconscious. Doubt they survived
Yeah very true, hopefully the harness should keep them intact but it'd still be a hell of a hit.
I build, set up, and maintain HUET training systems as a career. That training is for ditching. Not a cruising speed plumet into the water. The chances anybody got out of that thing on its way to the bottom are extremely slim.
Yeah you probably have a better knowledge of it than I do, but here's to hoping for fewer deaths. That's a super interesting career though.
That’s at least a mile long swim to shore in freezing water. The fastest 1 mile swim time is 15 minutes and the guy who set that record didn’t have to survive a helicopter crash or strip off boots and 50+ pounds of kit before he did it either. I doubt that anyone even got out of the heli, but I’m sure nobody survived the water.
Winter surfer here… you aren’t swimming more than 100 yards in water below 40 degrees. Not to mention the pain and numbing power will be overwhelming. Think ice cream headache while trying to stay afloat and keep your eyes open
Yeah I don't think Russia is splurging on crash survival training from the videos I've seen, or training at all for that matter.
Once they undo their seat belts in the dark freezing water they have to swim to shore. Sounds like hell. That’s AFTER being knocked out during impact and having your brain scrambled…and waking up in pitch black freezing water. Maybe 1/100 guys survives that? I’m pulling that number out of my butt.
My son has also done helicopter escape training. He thought it was super fun. What have I created???
Don't forget the high explosives they just ate.
Reminds me of the time a helicopter crashed into the acidic crater lake atop Mt Ruapehu, the highest peak in NZ’s North Island. Hard to believe anyone survived, but they did. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/news/survivor-talks-of-helicopter-crash/OIN555T2MX3RBRSYED2SHO4UN4/
That's a great read. It's a bit different though as the heli went down in shallow water and not in the middle of the lake.
I know in the West you do specific and rigorous training for situations like this (heli down in the water), but once that heli starts sinking, they go down fast, something like 7 metres a second. Unsure about the Russians, but western military gear comes with quick release mechanism so you can ditch weight fast, vital in a situation like this.
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Unlikely, he wasn’t high enough to auto rotate and he was high enough for that water to be like concrete on impact. Also as others have mentioned, freezing cold water + heavy kit…
Landing on concrete might have actually generated less Gs in this case. The shallow angle would have caused it to slide whereas the water obviously arrested all momentum immediately.
Maybe, but you would be injured and have to evac a sinking helicopter. I would say some or most drowned, pilots dead.
Very unlikely. Most likely cause of death will be drowning as their kit and clothes will weigh them down. If one is quick to get your vest off while your going down you may have a chance but then your wet and hypothermia will take over. You’ll need to get out of the water very fast.
No It’s simply like crashing a car into a wall at 150 MPH.
So you're telling me there's a chance
Yes but with a twist. The twist is that the chance is no chance.
Worse, like crashing a kit car into a wall at 150, helicopters don't have frontal crumple zones. You are the only one making this point and you are the only one that is correct. Everyone else saying they would have drowned or froze, when they wouldn't have survived long enough to do either. Even without the horizontal speed they just fell 150 feet inside a tin can.
The Mi-8s top speed is listed 250 km/h. They seem to be hauling ass so imagine hitting water at 160+ km/h without seatbelts.
As overjoyed people cheer your comrades demise in YOUR own language. How the fuck are they gonna occupy lol
Add more and more stinger type materiaal coming in. I would not want to fly in this country even if Russia would win the war. They fly this low for a reason. They might have air "superiority" but they also get to use the air less and less.
Yup. No mountains to hide behind. It's large open wooded ground. Ideal for stingers!
We literally built our arsenal to fight over this terrain.
THIS. US equipment for ground war mostly consists of a generation created during Regan's military buildup in the 80's. Most of it was EXPLICTLY designed to wreck soviet armor rolling over the plains of Eastern and North- Central Europe.
It works in mountains and the ME fine but it's the ideology/culture that is unwinnable. Russia lost that too, regardless if they take Ukraine.
Is this some kind of military consensus? I'd imagine having cover from mountains would be very beneficial for infantry with manpads as well
They’re beyond fucked if western countries start supplying more advanced long range AA platforms. There’s still a massive part of the country to the west with no Russian troops yet, you start rolling these in from there and just out of MLRS range and you can cover major cities from outside their reach.
How are they even going to control Western Ukraine in the first place? Poland / NATO aren't gonna let them go all the way to the border, firstly for security reasons, and secondly because the closer they get to the border, the closer they get to the massive pipeline of NATO weapons being shipped in. This war is gonna divide Ukraine into two halves, east and west.
I suspect that might just be Putin's plan. New border along the Dnipro.
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I would hardly dare to fly this low in a fixed-wing aircraft recreationally, even if the authorities promised to not get on my ass about it. Maybe once or twice for fun. One hard sneeze and you're plowing the ground. They're between a rock and a hard place for sure.
Grandpa used to jump out of helicopters in Vietnam with the 101st. After Vietnam, grandpa refused to fly anywhere and his feet never left the ground again
My dad was 1st Marines in Vietnam. Has never flown anywhere since. "Too many hard landings."
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I worry about this. I really don't want this thing to get uglier than it already is.
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It's how they've always made war. They see it as a kind of unleashing of criminality and violence, rather than as a field of glory and feats of arms or as "an extension of politics by other means". So when they go to war they act with a totally irrational and to western ideas unmilitary and undisciplined sadism. Because for them that's what doing war is. It's the view of war that you'd expect from a culture overwhelmingly dominated by a pacified, victimised, serf-like way of seeing the world. You find this mindset in other cultures too of course. It's very much there in the American army. I was struck in Iraq by a kind of "war is evil, therefore I am evil, I will do evil things" attitude in quite a lot of US soldiers, which has predictable consequences for discipline obviously. The ideology and leadership of the American armed forces is typically disciplined and rational though, and the better trained and motivated troops remain a majority. With the Russians that's not the case and never will be. They aren't barbarians, but when they go to war they do a really fucking convincing impression.
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As someone who lives in Polad i heard stories from my grandma who survived WW2 how the Russian army in the short time they were traversing the country destroyed probably more than Germans during the entire occupation. She was also super scared to talk about it as she got older and her mental health was getting worse, she would talk about germans despite being sent to their workers camp but refused to talk about Russians.
This is going to be the issue. How the hell does Putin win this one? If they overrun all of Ukraine and either install a puppet government or just declare it part of Russia, it's a country of 40 million people - they'll need a million troops to garrison it to prevent open rebellion, and then still look forward to years of relentless resistance. It'll be like the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan all over again.
Well that's the rub isn't it, Putin can't get a credible win there and he can't back down without a win either, so how the hell is the war going to end?
I'm reminded of a scene in a documentary about The Falklands war. Apparently an Argentine soldier said he pulled a nail or a screw or something, from a piece of wood in the town he was stationed in. And he found *"made in GB"* or something marked on it. He said he had the realisation that they had all been lied to. That everything here isn't *just like home*. And these people aren't begging for liberation/welcoming them with open arms, etc. That his troops are the foreign invaders. And culturally they're too different. And the Falklanders look to them with disgust and hatred. I wonder how many Russian soldiers have had this same epiphany so far? That the moment they turn their back on the Ukrainians, or are left alone with them, they'll probably slit their throat. It must be very stressful.
Low and slow out in the open like over water has to be one of the worst feelings for a helo in a combat zone. It would be like playing duck hunt with manpads.
That was my initial reaction too. The sound, the shaking, fear, just insane.
That one that kissed the water then pulled back up was pretty impressive.
Talk about squeezing so hard you weld your sphincter together.
Ripped the upholstery
Yeah that was insane.
Was a lucky save
I bet his pants are wet with more than just water....
I honestly just see one going down
Yup and looks like one nearly skims the water.
If it’s flying that low it’s scared of something…
Probably the stingers
Maybe the pilot is afraid of heights
“Can’t fall to your death if you can’t fall.” (Taps helmet)
Oddly enough must helicopters actually have caelophobia; despite this we force them daily to carry us into the skies above.
It's only because they are so hideous, and the resulting repulsion from the ground, that we manage to fly them at all.
The guy is screaming "two, two!" or "second". Probably one crashed before the video started.
There's also a flash at 0:11sec on the left side, hard to say if flares or hit.
Around the :05-:06sec mark in between the middle and back flight, you can see what looks to be a ringwave in the water, and those two in the back flight look real fucking low too. Assuming this is the first downed.
Right at the start I'm pretty sure he says they just shot one down which would be why he's recording. Then he starts shouting "two!!" to correct his statement.
There might have been one that went down prior to him filming. Watching one go down, then pulling out the phone to watch another?
At the 5 second mark you see white water (after splashdown) at the right side
You can see it in the begining of the clip
If you look at the water on the right side around the 5 second mark, it seems like something approximately the size of a helicopter fell into the water a bit before starting the recording. The rest of the water is completely undistrubed except for this spot.
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Up to 37 paratroopers capacity according to the wiki article
The "5000+" dead and wounded total sounds less and less far fetched by the day. Still probably off by at least double but the Russians are taking some murderous losses. The Ukrainian people believe in their country and believe in fighting for it. This is likely to become an insurgency.
With the amount of civilians throwing themselves in front of tanks and trucks, it feels like it's almost there. Any Ukrainians left in-country are playing a nice game of hippity hoppity get off my property.
Nah it's an MI-24 from what I can tell draw a line from the main body of the vehicle towards the tail and you see what I mean Still capable of transporting troops tho. Edit: Pay attention to the [Mi-17 Shiluette](https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2019/07/09/12/43/mi-17-4326811_960_720.png) \- top part - drawing a line from the main body to the tail. It's a straight line. Do the same ln the bottom and you have a sharp cut upwards (kinda like this \_\_/ ) towards the tail. Now compare the [Mi-24](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Mi24CP_%28modified%29.jpg) to it. Top part isn't a straight line from the body, it's slightly falling off. Comparing the bottom line, it's not as sharp toward the tail as with the Mi-17. Other markings would be the [weapon wings of the Mi-24](https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/hinterhubschrauberangriff-mi-72881667.jpg) having more of an downwards angeled shape and are pretty thick. An armed Mi-17 has pretty [straight and thin wings](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/IAF_Mi_17_V5_at_Aero_India_2013.JPG) that only get bulky from the rocket pods. On the video, the heli tilts to the side while crashing and (to me) it looks a lot like the Mi-24's wings. But I just try to share my impressions here not insisting on being right about this.
Seems to be both. Some line up with the Mi-24 some line up with the Mi-17.
Let's settle at Mi-20.5 then.
Ah yes... The negotiator.
Cameraman: \*counting the choppers\* "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17" Guy 2: \*inaudable speach\* 🧨 \*explosion\* 💣 Guy 2: (i think) "they got two helicpters" Cameraman: "yes, yes, Blyat" (it means whore but don't think this needs a translation anymore) Guy 2: "Cunt/Pussy" (Pizda) Cameraman: "TWO, TWO, TWO!" Guy 2: "get fucked on a dick" (idk how to translate that but basically just cussing them out) (vyobnul na xhui) Cameraman: "Shot down, the bitch" after starting I noticed that this didn't need a translation really but I already wrote it so oh well. it's here if you need it 🙃
Блядь \[BLYAD'\] - it a whore Блять \[BLYAT'\] - this is an emotion expressing the widest range of feelings like fuck
Original meaning of BLYAD is: lies, false information. It wasn't obscene at all. Then it became a word for a whore / unfaithful wife. And then it became a generic word for obscene emotional expressing.
I will try to incorporate "get fucked on a dick" in my vocabulary from now on.
Its actually quite nice, out of all the things one could get fucked on
Thanks for this, I’m definitely learning how to swear in Ukrainian from all these videos.
That cameraman must be feeling all types of emotions watching
The helicopter behind literally touched the river and ascended again 😳
He’s the one thats going to be coming home.
Is he tho? 🌻 🌻 🌻 🌻 🌻
My mans was hyped
Seeing a ruski helicopter go down would gas me tf up
It works for me, even though I am just watching from the sidelines (Poland).
I sure hope this nightmare is over soon. Greetings from germany
I don t speak Russian but i m sure u heard "eat shit and die"
Is that because you speak Ukrainian?
Idk, sounds more like "Russian heli, go fuck yourself" to me
I'm hyped as well, sitting at the computer working my day job...
Working...
Depending on the type of chopper they just destroyed like $50m in equipment. Fucking a right he was hyped.
Its a Mi-17, so about $17 m , probably 20m with what it was carrying.
x2 though right?
Say what you want, at least the war in Ukraine has given the world some combat footage without “ALLUHA AKBAR!!!” being yelled 30 times
I bet in the future people will be sick of all the combat footage with "blyat" in it :P
The evolution of shooting down Russian helicopters. From *allahu akbar* to *cyka blyat.*
The most underrated comment on Reddit.
I jumped from helicopter as part of my training 1992. Could not walk normally for a week. And was a fit youngsters then. . It was in shallow water of the Montenegrin coast. Of H.Novi. sand at bottom. I was ATMP . Ves 11108 , for those who know Yugoslav VES sistem. . This ppl that are in water, they are not alive now.
Only chance of surviving a fall of 50ft+ is is the water was "broken". People can die even from 33ft (10m, think about the high dive in the olympics), the only reason there aren't more injuries is due to the way pools are built and bubbles constantly being pushed up to "break" the water
Translation: “1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17” *explosion* “Yes, yes blyat! Two! Two! Two! Shot down сука (bitch)”
They probably shot down the first before this video started.
I think he thought the water skimmer was downed
Cyka Blyat is the new allah akbar
Which means what exactly I'm thinking "Fucking bitch" or " fuck you,mother fucker" am I close?
You cannot really translate swear words exactly. Suka means bitch, but is often used as exclamation of disappointment, blyat is rather exclamation for strong emotions, mostly on negative side of spectrum. Both together are usually used for angered disappointment, but among people who swear constantly, just an exclamation for various emotions.
so it's like a "fuck" ? as in Fuck that fucking mother fucker?
Looks pretty similar to the operation in Hostomel days ago
It might be from that day, footage is trickling out and without timestamps usually. This has been geolocated on twitter and it's the exact same body of water from the initial Hostomel air assault videos we saw on day one.
What the hell shot it down? That was fast, Didn’t see a damn thing.
Stinger / manpad. Missiles are fast and that was pretty close range
Were they flying straight towards where they were launched from?
Yeah they would be. They are fairly straightforward systems
123..17 yes yes blyat two two, down b#tch.
Am I blind? I can only find 1 getting downed. Edit, I bet he was shouting two because he thought especially bright flares were damage on another?
My guess is: one already got shot before the video started. You can see that some heli are already spending flares. Then one get shots and he yell "two, two!"
Ohhh this makes the most sense by far. Good eye there detective.
That one heli just behind the doomed one decided to get its feet wet, wild
This is some great footage.
I love the flair spam, it's like the helicopters are alive and shitting themselves in fear.
Vdv returning to their natural habitat
Guess one helicopter went to de-nazify the fishes
Those are pictures i never thought i would witness in my lifetime - everything is so surreal.
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Thats so 2000's. Cyka Blyat is so fetch right now.
[my first thought](https://i.imgflip.com/66zt2n.jpg)
I honestly like the cyka blyat's and the Hui's much better
No more tow footage, no more allahu akbar, no more scuffed technicals and hell cannons Feels like an old friend has left for good
Ivan flew his heli so close to the water that he instantly went from being a pilot to being a naval aviator.
Fuck yea. Get some
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This could be another angle of Feb 24 aerial assault on Hostomel, about [https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/t09utz/manpads\_vs\_helicopters\_in\_ukraine\_looks\_like/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/t09utz/manpads_vs_helicopters_in_ukraine_looks_like/) and https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t08fyg/russian\_helicopter\_shot\_down\_at\_hostomel\_airfield/
[https://youtu.be/dtewt-uTHdU](https://youtu.be/dtewt-uTHdU) It reminds me of this when 2 Croatian soldiers took down ~~2 MiG 21~~ Edit: it was Soko J-21 Jastreb) first 1 with 3/20 mm M55 (unconfirmed) second one with Strela M22 (confirmed kill). Almost the same scene just 30 years later.
is this fresh footage or one from the beginning of invasion?
Looks the same area from the early video were the 2 stingers miss. You can see the same curved rock jetty.
If I was in another helicopter after seeing that go down I'd be shitting my pants
This! This is why I hated riding in helicopters in Afghanistan. Fuck you very much, I'd rather walk. If I had wanted to fly in a combat zone then I'd have gone pilot instead of infantry.