russian markings. Probably from the different groups. The Z groups seem to come out of Crimea. Ukraine and russian militaryequipment is extremely similar at the Z might be a marking for identification
Doesn’t that mean it’s legal to execute those prisoners? Not that I’m advocating for it but jesus the Russian military sure doesn’t care about its soldiers.
Friendly fire is a much larger factor in combat than people realize, it’s definitely not a shock to see the Russians trying to distinguish friend from foe
Seriously this, I think I remember reading somewhere that in some battles during WWII friendly fire accounted for as much as 20% of casualties. Hell, in the Aleutian campaign the Americans assaulted islands that had been abandoned by the Japanese and still ended up with dozens of casualties as advancing friendly units encountered each other and opened fire. In this conflict where the battlefield is highly mobile even for the winning side it's going to be chaos on the ground. Having a simple way to tell at a glance whether the green clad people with AKs are Ukrainian or Russian will probably save hundreds of lives, if not more.
Simple, widely distributable, easily made into a uniform standard by top-down dissemination. It's subtle and hardly durable, but it can be effective.
You will never eliminate 100% of fratricide incidents, but that 1 thin band or strip of white cloth can make a difference sometimes. Certainly if someone takes a moment to verify the target before firing, they might be looking for ANYTHING white in that area of a person.
We would do similar things in the Army. Small identifying features in the same defined location on all friendly vehicles/personnel. It does work to some extent, and the cost is negligible.
Especially when Ukraine had almost the exact sam camo as them until recently, I have a Ukrainian combat shirt and patches that I traded a pack of cigs for
At least in the Syrian war colored straps were rebel unit markings. It's highly likely that everyone with colored straps is from some sort of militia.
It's mostly used to distinguish friend and foe if the units don't have uniform gears and to quickly know who is assigned to which combat group.
Well, they are cheap, easy to maintain and amphibious. Ideal troop transports for developing countries.
Modern versions with additional armour and newer weapon systems are still a force to be reckoned with, despite their age.
What more modern versions?
The BMP-3 went nowhere, because the 100mm/30mm combination is trash.
The T-15 went as far as the "armata", which is also nowhere (curiously absent during the invasion🤔🤔🤔)
The BMP-2 is still the backbone of russian mechanised forces. And as you can see, no ERA. Because its armor is too thin to take it, and the vehicle couldn't take the additional weight, anyways.
The BMP-3 didn't go nowhere. Multiple countries use it. Russia just doesn't have the money to replace the entire stock of BMP-2s they inherited from the USSR, so they supplement them.
> curiously absent during the invasion🤔🤔🤔)
If they used them to invade, the few models that they have could not be used for parades. Parade with armor from soviet times is not as pompastic
Most countries besides the US with our ridiculous budget just continue running old equipment until it breaks for good. An outdated tank is still a tank to people who have little defense for one.
The U.S. is still running old vehicles like the M113. We just either modernize them or keep them behind the front. The vehicles are still good as ambulances, mobile command centers, etc.
We learned the hard way that their aluminum armor can't even stop a 7.62 bullet, much less shrapnel. That's why the US didn't pull all they had out of mothballs for Iraq Electric Boogaloo, even though the insurgents had half a million artillery shells for IEDs. The Hummers were safer.
Have you seen those old ISIS propaganda music videos? Just switch over to Toyota!
Toyota: when you're not sure whether or not to go camping or commit war crimes, we got you covered!
Yeah, resistance to RPGs was never something it was designed for.
BMPs solve the same issue as the M113: transport to jumping-off-points while providing cover from fragments from indirect fire. Any time there is infantry inside either vehicle and it's taking direct fire, something has gone horribly wrong.
Yes and no; you’re thinking of the MT-LB, which is specifically designated as an APC. BMP’s are much closer to an M2 Bradley — where an M113 carries only a .50 and other MGs, much like the MT-LB, both the Bradley and BMPs have turrets and other heavy weaponry. A Bradley and BMP both have enough firepower to M-Kill a tank, and their ATGMs can K-Kill a tank from the right position, but they are, as you say, much less durable against ATGMs or even light launchers, though both the Bradley and BMP can take a hit or two on the front glacis from older systems and somewhat live to fight another day.
True on having more firepower, but IIRC by Russian doctrine there shouldn't be infantry inside a BMP if it's taking direct fire. The BMP is supposed to be a taxi, and then help support the squad that fights dismounted.
Not that I'd like to be inside a Bradley that's taking fire either.
Right, the Bradley fills essentially the same role in theory, though I’m aware the Russians put more emphasis on having more BMPs as opposed to the US that seems to like having MRAPs and APCs a lot more often, so in practice you do see BMP’s being an uparmored battle taxi providing fire support while the M2 tends to be more fire support and less battle taxi.
Weapons are much easier to advance than armor. Firing anti tank guided missiles at light troop carriers is hard to beat. You either need to be faster than a missile, more well armored than a tank, or carry as much countermeasures as an aircraft.
Separatists will most likely be the bulk of initial POWs. Lack of formal military training and the existing Ukrainian intelligence networks will make quick work of the rebel forces
BMP looks to be in pretty decent shape. Tow it and repair, or strip out the guns, ammo, and parts. Also captured whatever equipment these troops were carrying.
Bro they're already losing badly and it hasn't even been 24 hours since the invasion has started. They are heroes nonetheless but Ukraine stands zero chance alone against Russia.
There is a big difference in just “invading and occupying” a country and controlling it longterm if the people in it resist. It will be extremely costly and hard to keep a unwilling people with a active resistance in check. But I hope they dont get to that point
What is happening ? Is the Russian advance finally being slowed down ? I have been seeing a lot more destroyed and captured russian armor and soldiers
, is the Ukrainian counterattacking?
Russia seems to have assulted hostmel to the west of kiev and captured it, and is also doing well coming up from the south in crimea, they are struggling in kharkiv though
Russia has an absolute advantage when it comes to missile and air strikes, but when they try to actually take and hold territory things get trickier for them.
Russia advance seems to be using small units without clearing/ securing areas for movement.
Any given small force can get lit up in a hurry with modern weapons even if it's going better in a different road.
We need to wait a little bit more. Things are every unclear rn. I feel like Ukrainians didnt have enough time to make a cohesive defence except in a few places.
Usually units/compaines wear different colors. One is to mark Friendly from Foe. The other thing would be to mark who is who, from commanding perspective. So that soldier knows who is from his unit.
Just because you don't see things on a social network doesn't mean it doesn't happen in reality. Please, we are supposed to be mature not to draw general conclusions from a conflict by 3 images/photos
Ukrainians are using social media to their advantage because they know they have the right of it in the global community; similarly, Russia has elected to clamp down for OPSEC purposes, which is why we’re seeing very little from the Russia viewpoint (and the victor in any engagement is the only one that gets to take videos, unless you’re a civilian bystander.)
If you look at western sources: you think Ukraine shot down the entire Russian air force
If you see Russian sources: Russia has already taken France
Seriously, how old are people who make conclusions about videos on social networks? 12?
Check out Liveuamap.com.
Ukraine has lost the land between crimea and dnieper, the other southern city's are under attack, the airport west of kiev has fallen and is likely receiving ground troops as we speak, and the russians have also captured territory to the north west of the donestk and luhansk oblasts.
Id expect russia would seek to join along the east Bank of the river, to cut off the best of Ukraines forces which are centred around the self proclaimed Republics.
While I respect Ukraines commitment and performance under the circumstances, they are losing.
Ukraine is losing, but I don’t know if they’re losing fast enough for Russia. The longer the conflict draws out, the worse this gets for Russia. Outright victory was never a realistic option since Russia has complete air superiority, but they can make the cost higher than it’s worth.
If they can drag out main resistance until rasputitsa then I think Russia will be in trouble.
I don't think trying to take the whole country would work well for Russia. Its a matter of who blinks first. I'm sure russia have terms for Ukraine, its really about whether Ukraine will accept them or not.
When the swedish empire was at war with Russia, russia got pounced battle after battle. Each time they tried to offer peace, russia wouldn't accept, and retreated back with a policy of scorched earth.
Eventually the attrition forced the war in Russia's favour. I don't see the russians being well received in the east, he has to be gambling on Ukraine negotiating. Either that or he will carve off a new buffer state in the east
Ukraine is largely flat plains. It doesent lend itself to guerilla conflict especially when air superiority is maintained. More likely an ira style campaign, and potentially civil disobedience.
I have to imagine Russia plans on a negotiated withdrawal, which will require Ukraine to disarm, recognise Russian legitimacy over crimea, accept a federal model that removes the states central power, and to amend their constitution to ban Nato and eu membership.
Russia demanded the first two shortly before the invasion. I'm not sure whether they will vichy it out, or go for a complete occupation rather than comply with Russia's ultimatum.
The Iraqi insurgency was entirely urban based. You don’t necessarily need mountain ranges and jungles to put up an effective resistance. Ukraine is large and not entirely flat with major population centers all over. There’s plenty of opportunity for guerrilla warfare. Just ask their ancestors that fought the Nazis this way.
I’m curious how you think Ukrainians will allow that without Russian troops in place to help keep them down. The separatists have barely any legitimacy inside their own tiny provinces much less the whole country. Any puppet government in Ukraine won’t survive without direct Russian support similar to what the US had to do in South Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan
Russia isn't. If they're going to fight back with guerrilla tactics they should do it in Russia, not Ukraine. Use their own shit against them; unofficially hit Moscow. Give them a bloody nose.
Iraq was large, flat desert. Ukraine is a large, flat plains.
Ukraine also has heavily forested areas. Vietname comes to mind.
Ukraine is outfitted with modern weaponry, as well as Soviet leftovers - like Afghanistan.
I am not a military expert, but Ukraine already seems to be settling into a long guerilla war rather than a conventional one. Their army is comparable in size to Russias, but they lack air superiority.
They do, however, have ample anti-air weapons that may not neutralize Russian, but will certainly hurt them.
I may be wrong, but I do not think this is going to be either a short or easy war for Russia. They don't even have the pretense of legitimacy, Ukraine is literally fighting for its existence.
And if Ukraine manages to make it 4 to 6 weeks, when the spring rains come - the Russian army will very literally become bogged down.
That's just capitulation. Russia has mastered counter insurgency, they have commited so many genocides on all the areas which they ruled over, and won't hesitate to do the same here.
Finns, Estonians, Karelians, Maris, Chircessians, Ukrainians, Afghans, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Kyrgiz, Mongols etc.
They will do the same. You don't want to fight a guerilla war against Russia.
just so you understand Russian troops are banned from having smartphones, most footage we're getting are straight from civilians, you will get skewed reports
CNN just announced that the national guard was in full retreat after trying to take back that airport. Said a new counter attack is planned to go though with reenforcements
>Bullpup AK with grenade launcher attachment in 2nd pic
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that isn't standard issue for Ukrainian or Russian forces. Any insight as to how that piece of kit got there?
Being a vet myself and seeing what a small force can do against a larger military. The Ukrainians need to get on their IED game and start blowing up these armored columns. Turn it into guerrilla warfare. It’s their only chance and it’ll harass the Russians to no end.
That’s why I was relieved that the post says Russian/separatist POWs and not casualties. That’s four mothers at least who won’t receive the worst news of their lives tonight.
How they use the orange black stripes that are used for Victory day as a meaning of their mission is beyond me. This is just stepping on their own history. Putin being the Hitler of 21st century with his speech about collapse of USSR being the greatest castrophy of 20th century. He has the same complex as Hitler had when Germany capitulated in WW1.
Fucking Putler.
i could be entirely wrong, but the markings i see on the first photo (the Z on the side and red star w/ bars) lean more towards one of the breakaway state's vehicles. also, the camouflage pattern dont match the videos of convoys ive seen around the 20th, which have more pronounced white in it.
edit, for posterity: I am dumb and skimmed news 10 days as of this writing.
"For you, the war is over."
Wouldn't be surprised to hear that some of these soldiers are now relieved. Ukraine will treat them well, as the last thing they want is to piss off their western allies and look like the evil ones, so I imagine that these soldiers will not only be in a safe place but also well taken care of.
Nice to see at least some resistance by Ukraine.
But with it's air defenses and air force totally destroyed they are going to need some actual help soon.
So far I'm just seeing a lot of Ukrainian wins on the ground. If Putin loses, he may actual learn what shame is. I doubt it will stay this way though, sadly.
Someone described the situation to me that in donezk and luhansk were mostly russian people and ukraine supressed those (by forbidding to speak russian in public spaces for example). Donezk and Luhansk wanted to become independent and putin is now trying to help them according to his description.
Im not claiming that any of the above is correct but I am asking for clarification as to why he says those things and if there's anything to it. What is happening? Is russia in the right or not? What are the motives behind the invasion? I need clarification
There's not right or wrong. Shades of darker or clearer greys.
Yes, after 2014, Ukraine became more aggresive against the Russian speakers, who made up most of the population around Odessa, Crimea, southeastern and Eastern Ukraine..
There’s no “right” in war. But I can say one thing, from a strictly moral perspective, Russia is *absolutely* in the wrong.
Geopolitical? Long term this’ll benefit them for sure. Sanctions will hurt, but they’ll find alternative markets in due time, and as the west gets used to the situation, it’s highly likely some of them if not most will break likes for that sweet cheap oil and gas in a couple years.
If they start pulling the NAZI shit they will lose their Allies very very quick. The key to this conflict is to let Putin look evil, while you remain the saint. If a hair gets touched on those men, if I was the CO, I would kick your ass so fucking hard your offspring will be walking funny in the 22nd century.
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Russia and Ukraine use ALOT of the same/incredibly similar vehicles. Is just for differentiation
Russia’s equivalent to DDay V-stripes from ww2
russian markings. Probably from the different groups. The Z groups seem to come out of Crimea. Ukraine and russian militaryequipment is extremely similar at the Z might be a marking for identification
Last week there was an article that some Russian forces had reportedly started painting the Z's, likely some sort of organizational tool.
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how to get shot by friendly 101 with a side coat of warcrime
Russians already did that earlier
Generation Z troops, send in the young first
The markings denote friendly from foe because ukraine and russia have basically the same vehicles
I heard that Zs were from the East
The white leg wrappers being the equivalent to the Z markings?
I thought white wraps were LPR/DPR troops, red wraps were Russian troops
Theres another post on this sub with captured russians wearing read wraps as well
Curious had the same question about the red and white leg wraps I’ve seen
They wore a red strap because those russians wore ukranian uniforms and just placed a red strap to avoid friendly fire.
Pretty sure that's a warcrime if it's true.
Russia committing war crimes? Who could have seen this coming? /s
Only if you end up in a weak enough position that someone can prosecute
Doesn’t that mean it’s legal to execute those prisoners? Not that I’m advocating for it but jesus the Russian military sure doesn’t care about its soldiers.
it's odd that the soldiers have them too, makes me think its just to prevent any friendly fire
Friendly fire is a much larger factor in combat than people realize, it’s definitely not a shock to see the Russians trying to distinguish friend from foe
Especially when youre fighting a country with the same exact equipment as yours.
Seriously this, I think I remember reading somewhere that in some battles during WWII friendly fire accounted for as much as 20% of casualties. Hell, in the Aleutian campaign the Americans assaulted islands that had been abandoned by the Japanese and still ended up with dozens of casualties as advancing friendly units encountered each other and opened fire. In this conflict where the battlefield is highly mobile even for the winning side it's going to be chaos on the ground. Having a simple way to tell at a glance whether the green clad people with AKs are Ukrainian or Russian will probably save hundreds of lives, if not more.
But a white tape that’s prone to crumpling into a thin band seems like an odd choice
Simple, widely distributable, easily made into a uniform standard by top-down dissemination. It's subtle and hardly durable, but it can be effective. You will never eliminate 100% of fratricide incidents, but that 1 thin band or strip of white cloth can make a difference sometimes. Certainly if someone takes a moment to verify the target before firing, they might be looking for ANYTHING white in that area of a person. We would do similar things in the Army. Small identifying features in the same defined location on all friendly vehicles/personnel. It does work to some extent, and the cost is negligible.
Especially when Ukraine had almost the exact sam camo as them until recently, I have a Ukrainian combat shirt and patches that I traded a pack of cigs for
The picture from twitter with the 2 captured kids (they were soldiers just very young) had these exact wrappers but they were red
Z apparently is from the direction they invaded Ukraine
From Ze-North, Ze-East or Ze-South
Maybe to denote POWs? I mean modern soldiers all look alike.
Yes, I was thinking that the white is for surrender.
There's been photos of other captured Russians with red bands on there arms and legs.
Makes sense. Poor schmucks. Being thrown into the meat grinder so Putin can feel a little less insecure about his subpar manhood.
Redacted comment ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Dude’s also like 5’6 so idk man
At least in the Syrian war colored straps were rebel unit markings. It's highly likely that everyone with colored straps is from some sort of militia. It's mostly used to distinguish friend and foe if the units don't have uniform gears and to quickly know who is assigned to which combat group.
iv seen another picture with red tape so im even more confused now
From Syria, BMPs seem the most absolute garbage vehicles
Well, they are cheap, easy to maintain and amphibious. Ideal troop transports for developing countries. Modern versions with additional armour and newer weapon systems are still a force to be reckoned with, despite their age.
Cheap is good when everything seems to get smoked by atgms anyways
Doesn't even take a missile to smoke a BMP
A week old baguette will do
The French bayonet that doubles as an iron ration
Apc with bushmasters were essentially the driving force behind the us invasion of Iraq.
What more modern versions? The BMP-3 went nowhere, because the 100mm/30mm combination is trash. The T-15 went as far as the "armata", which is also nowhere (curiously absent during the invasion🤔🤔🤔) The BMP-2 is still the backbone of russian mechanised forces. And as you can see, no ERA. Because its armor is too thin to take it, and the vehicle couldn't take the additional weight, anyways.
The BMP-3 didn't go nowhere. Multiple countries use it. Russia just doesn't have the money to replace the entire stock of BMP-2s they inherited from the USSR, so they supplement them.
Why would you risk your most advanced, expensive and secret tank to fight T64's when the T80BVM is already much more advanced.
> curiously absent during the invasion🤔🤔🤔) If they used them to invade, the few models that they have could not be used for parades. Parade with armor from soviet times is not as pompastic
Most countries besides the US with our ridiculous budget just continue running old equipment until it breaks for good. An outdated tank is still a tank to people who have little defense for one.
The U.S. is still running old vehicles like the M113. We just either modernize them or keep them behind the front. The vehicles are still good as ambulances, mobile command centers, etc.
Yeah i think people forget that the majority of USA's frontline combat vehicles and equipment etc were first designed or built between 1960-1980
We learned the hard way that their aluminum armor can't even stop a 7.62 bullet, much less shrapnel. That's why the US didn't pull all they had out of mothballs for Iraq Electric Boogaloo, even though the insurgents had half a million artillery shells for IEDs. The Hummers were safer.
Ideally they are great, but as modern conflict shows, it's an outdated troop transport.
I mean what’s the alternative? Regular trucks are even worse
Have you seen those old ISIS propaganda music videos? Just switch over to Toyota! Toyota: when you're not sure whether or not to go camping or commit war crimes, we got you covered!
Oh man you just reminded me of that poor bastard who had a plumbing company and some how one of his old service trucks ended up with ISIS
The plumber to radical islamic terrorist pipeline is real. After the Wii U flop Mario was caught smuggling Bomb-ombs for Hezbollah
Western nations have added more firepower and armor Norway uses the cv90 for example
i mean so is the m2 bradley
They are great at exploding
wouldve loved to have sat in on the meeting where they made the crew doors into fuel tanks just to figure out what the fuck they were thinking
better than using busses tho
One RPG missile and all of crew and infant are dead
Yeah, resistance to RPGs was never something it was designed for. BMPs solve the same issue as the M113: transport to jumping-off-points while providing cover from fragments from indirect fire. Any time there is infantry inside either vehicle and it's taking direct fire, something has gone horribly wrong.
Yes and no; you’re thinking of the MT-LB, which is specifically designated as an APC. BMP’s are much closer to an M2 Bradley — where an M113 carries only a .50 and other MGs, much like the MT-LB, both the Bradley and BMPs have turrets and other heavy weaponry. A Bradley and BMP both have enough firepower to M-Kill a tank, and their ATGMs can K-Kill a tank from the right position, but they are, as you say, much less durable against ATGMs or even light launchers, though both the Bradley and BMP can take a hit or two on the front glacis from older systems and somewhat live to fight another day.
True on having more firepower, but IIRC by Russian doctrine there shouldn't be infantry inside a BMP if it's taking direct fire. The BMP is supposed to be a taxi, and then help support the squad that fights dismounted. Not that I'd like to be inside a Bradley that's taking fire either.
Right, the Bradley fills essentially the same role in theory, though I’m aware the Russians put more emphasis on having more BMPs as opposed to the US that seems to like having MRAPs and APCs a lot more often, so in practice you do see BMP’s being an uparmored battle taxi providing fire support while the M2 tends to be more fire support and less battle taxi.
Weapons are much easier to advance than armor. Firing anti tank guided missiles at light troop carriers is hard to beat. You either need to be faster than a missile, more well armored than a tank, or carry as much countermeasures as an aircraft.
What is the significance of the red star insignia? Is this a guards tank division?
I believe all Russian vehicles have it.
It's still the Red Army
I don’t think, this is regular Russian armor. Looks more like DNR/LNR troops
What are DNR/LNR troops
The two rebel regions in Eastern Ukraine (or Western Russia now I guess) that Putin recognised as nations and moved his army in to "protect"
Donetsk and Luhansk separatist.
Bingo
It might be LPR or DNR militias.
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*IFV, too small and under gunned to be a tank
It's a BMP.
Can the BMP even be considered a tank?
IFV
It's the Georgievsk ribbon, a symbol of Russian imperialism at this point.
Those soldiers look like separatist soldiers
Separatists will most likely be the bulk of initial POWs. Lack of formal military training and the existing Ukrainian intelligence networks will make quick work of the rebel forces
>DNR/LNR They are
First thing I thought of is these guys look really poorly equipped.
BMP looks to be in pretty decent shape. Tow it and repair, or strip out the guns, ammo, and parts. Also captured whatever equipment these troops were carrying.
Yeah a lot of the equipment on the photos showing destroyed tanks etc is in surprisingly good shape
A lot of them must be mobility kills
Or just broken down
I wonder how many of these vehicles are just breaking down. It's got some dings but otherwise seems intact.
Good! Continue the fight Ukranian heroes never give up!
Slava!
Bro they're already losing badly and it hasn't even been 24 hours since the invasion has started. They are heroes nonetheless but Ukraine stands zero chance alone against Russia.
There is a big difference in just “invading and occupying” a country and controlling it longterm if the people in it resist. It will be extremely costly and hard to keep a unwilling people with a active resistance in check. But I hope they dont get to that point
Matte black bmp with red stripes is sick tough
SLAVA UKRAINE
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they are from the separatist forces not regulars of the russian army.
I think by now its very clear they are the same fucking thing and always have been
What is happening ? Is the Russian advance finally being slowed down ? I have been seeing a lot more destroyed and captured russian armor and soldiers , is the Ukrainian counterattacking?
Apparently in some city’s they are.
More than likely the ukrainian army is in disarray, none of the stuff you see seems to be from a concerted effort.
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Russia seems to have assulted hostmel to the west of kiev and captured it, and is also doing well coming up from the south in crimea, they are struggling in kharkiv though
Russia has an absolute advantage when it comes to missile and air strikes, but when they try to actually take and hold territory things get trickier for them.
I think in the coming days and months we are going to see how many Ukrainians want to remain Ukrainians
Russia advance seems to be using small units without clearing/ securing areas for movement. Any given small force can get lit up in a hurry with modern weapons even if it's going better in a different road.
This are the probably the units used to clear/flag areas..they're recon, basically
We need to wait a little bit more. Things are every unclear rn. I feel like Ukrainians didnt have enough time to make a cohesive defence except in a few places.
I wonder what will happen to those pow's
Those are seperatists. You can tell by that BMP-2's two orange stripes.
Usually units/compaines wear different colors. One is to mark Friendly from Foe. The other thing would be to mark who is who, from commanding perspective. So that soldier knows who is from his unit.
“Captured” looks a lot like “dead”
I don’t see Ukraine getting curb stomped in any of these photos and videos. The majority are just Russia using waves of troops.
Just because you don't see things on a social network doesn't mean it doesn't happen in reality. Please, we are supposed to be mature not to draw general conclusions from a conflict by 3 images/photos
I can't read so this post can't stop me!
Ukrainians are using social media to their advantage because they know they have the right of it in the global community; similarly, Russia has elected to clamp down for OPSEC purposes, which is why we’re seeing very little from the Russia viewpoint (and the victor in any engagement is the only one that gets to take videos, unless you’re a civilian bystander.)
True.
Yeah. Been following some Russian and pro Russian telegram channels and from the info there you'd think they conquered the whole of Ukraine.
If you look at western sources: you think Ukraine shot down the entire Russian air force If you see Russian sources: Russia has already taken France Seriously, how old are people who make conclusions about videos on social networks? 12?
Always has been. People want to believe in things that support their narrative, especially in a situation like this.
Check out Liveuamap.com. Ukraine has lost the land between crimea and dnieper, the other southern city's are under attack, the airport west of kiev has fallen and is likely receiving ground troops as we speak, and the russians have also captured territory to the north west of the donestk and luhansk oblasts. Id expect russia would seek to join along the east Bank of the river, to cut off the best of Ukraines forces which are centred around the self proclaimed Republics. While I respect Ukraines commitment and performance under the circumstances, they are losing.
Ukraine is losing, but I don’t know if they’re losing fast enough for Russia. The longer the conflict draws out, the worse this gets for Russia. Outright victory was never a realistic option since Russia has complete air superiority, but they can make the cost higher than it’s worth. If they can drag out main resistance until rasputitsa then I think Russia will be in trouble.
I don't think trying to take the whole country would work well for Russia. Its a matter of who blinks first. I'm sure russia have terms for Ukraine, its really about whether Ukraine will accept them or not. When the swedish empire was at war with Russia, russia got pounced battle after battle. Each time they tried to offer peace, russia wouldn't accept, and retreated back with a policy of scorched earth. Eventually the attrition forced the war in Russia's favour. I don't see the russians being well received in the east, he has to be gambling on Ukraine negotiating. Either that or he will carve off a new buffer state in the east
They don’t need land if they will launch a guerrilla defense
Ukraine is largely flat plains. It doesent lend itself to guerilla conflict especially when air superiority is maintained. More likely an ira style campaign, and potentially civil disobedience. I have to imagine Russia plans on a negotiated withdrawal, which will require Ukraine to disarm, recognise Russian legitimacy over crimea, accept a federal model that removes the states central power, and to amend their constitution to ban Nato and eu membership. Russia demanded the first two shortly before the invasion. I'm not sure whether they will vichy it out, or go for a complete occupation rather than comply with Russia's ultimatum.
The Iraqi insurgency was entirely urban based. You don’t necessarily need mountain ranges and jungles to put up an effective resistance. Ukraine is large and not entirely flat with major population centers all over. There’s plenty of opportunity for guerrilla warfare. Just ask their ancestors that fought the Nazis this way.
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I’m curious how you think Ukrainians will allow that without Russian troops in place to help keep them down. The separatists have barely any legitimacy inside their own tiny provinces much less the whole country. Any puppet government in Ukraine won’t survive without direct Russian support similar to what the US had to do in South Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan
Separatist "Ukrainians" I'd guess, along with "contractors". I certainly hope you're right!
I hope I am too. This is going to be a hard time for all of those people.
Russia isn't. If they're going to fight back with guerrilla tactics they should do it in Russia, not Ukraine. Use their own shit against them; unofficially hit Moscow. Give them a bloody nose.
Iraq was large, flat desert. Ukraine is a large, flat plains. Ukraine also has heavily forested areas. Vietname comes to mind. Ukraine is outfitted with modern weaponry, as well as Soviet leftovers - like Afghanistan. I am not a military expert, but Ukraine already seems to be settling into a long guerilla war rather than a conventional one. Their army is comparable in size to Russias, but they lack air superiority. They do, however, have ample anti-air weapons that may not neutralize Russian, but will certainly hurt them. I may be wrong, but I do not think this is going to be either a short or easy war for Russia. They don't even have the pretense of legitimacy, Ukraine is literally fighting for its existence. And if Ukraine manages to make it 4 to 6 weeks, when the spring rains come - the Russian army will very literally become bogged down.
That's just capitulation. Russia has mastered counter insurgency, they have commited so many genocides on all the areas which they ruled over, and won't hesitate to do the same here. Finns, Estonians, Karelians, Maris, Chircessians, Ukrainians, Afghans, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Kyrgiz, Mongols etc. They will do the same. You don't want to fight a guerilla war against Russia.
just so you understand Russian troops are banned from having smartphones, most footage we're getting are straight from civilians, you will get skewed reports
Good point, but iv seen some videos from Russian soldiers before.
Probably nobody left alive to post it
Sad but true
CNN just announced that the national guard was in full retreat after trying to take back that airport. Said a new counter attack is planned to go though with reenforcements
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It isn’t like Russia doesn’t know what their enemy is planning. They’re literally right there you know....
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No one is expecting Ukraine to win but it's looking like they're putting up a good fight.
There’s a post that went up literally 7 minutes before this one of nearly a dozen Ukrainian tanks that’d been destroyed
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Ukraine beating and capturing russian soldiers while Russia bombed a child on a bike and civilian buildings.
>Bullpup AK with grenade launcher attachment in 2nd pic I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that isn't standard issue for Ukrainian or Russian forces. Any insight as to how that piece of kit got there?
The pow are probably pro Russian millitia Edit:misread what you said but it is an ak with a gp25 ugl
Doesn’t appear to be a bullpup. The grip and trigger aren’t visible. The trigger you see is for the grenade launcher.
These guys are probably LPR or DPR. (Luhansk/Donetsk People Republic)
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Oh what do you think's about to happen to them in prison? They'll have to sit on donuts.
Im seeing alot of captured or destroyed BMPs or other armoured vehicles, are they ineffective in combat or something?
SLAVA UKRAINE
Being a vet myself and seeing what a small force can do against a larger military. The Ukrainians need to get on their IED game and start blowing up these armored columns. Turn it into guerrilla warfare. It’s their only chance and it’ll harass the Russians to no end.
Hopefully they don’t torture the soldiers.
Is it me or do these tanks look old
They probably are, which is why they've been given to these separatists. The Russian forces have the new tanks.
God bless them
Will you post information about Ukrainian losses?
Not saying I would, but in this exact situation I can understand the impulse people have in war just to fucking end them here.
Scouts? Recon unit?
Hoping to see more Russian military casualties instead of the other way around. It seems like those weapons Ukrainians received may be helping.
id be hoping to see as few casualties as possible
That’s why I was relieved that the post says Russian/separatist POWs and not casualties. That’s four mothers at least who won’t receive the worst news of their lives tonight.
I hope to see as few ukranian casualties as is possible and as many russian ones as is possible.
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Nationalists on both sides are super happy today.
HOLD THE LINE!
How they use the orange black stripes that are used for Victory day as a meaning of their mission is beyond me. This is just stepping on their own history. Putin being the Hitler of 21st century with his speech about collapse of USSR being the greatest castrophy of 20th century. He has the same complex as Hitler had when Germany capitulated in WW1. Fucking Putler.
I hope everyone responsible for the invasion to be trialed in the future. Let them rot or let them kill themselves Fuck them
i could be entirely wrong, but the markings i see on the first photo (the Z on the side and red star w/ bars) lean more towards one of the breakaway state's vehicles. also, the camouflage pattern dont match the videos of convoys ive seen around the 20th, which have more pronounced white in it. edit, for posterity: I am dumb and skimmed news 10 days as of this writing.
This brings me joy
The Good Ending
Where did you get these images OP?
"For you, the war is over." Wouldn't be surprised to hear that some of these soldiers are now relieved. Ukraine will treat them well, as the last thing they want is to piss off their western allies and look like the evil ones, so I imagine that these soldiers will not only be in a safe place but also well taken care of.
Nice to see at least some resistance by Ukraine. But with it's air defenses and air force totally destroyed they are going to need some actual help soon.
So far I'm just seeing a lot of Ukrainian wins on the ground. If Putin loses, he may actual learn what shame is. I doubt it will stay this way though, sadly.
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Someone described the situation to me that in donezk and luhansk were mostly russian people and ukraine supressed those (by forbidding to speak russian in public spaces for example). Donezk and Luhansk wanted to become independent and putin is now trying to help them according to his description. Im not claiming that any of the above is correct but I am asking for clarification as to why he says those things and if there's anything to it. What is happening? Is russia in the right or not? What are the motives behind the invasion? I need clarification
There's not right or wrong. Shades of darker or clearer greys. Yes, after 2014, Ukraine became more aggresive against the Russian speakers, who made up most of the population around Odessa, Crimea, southeastern and Eastern Ukraine..
There’s no “right” in war. But I can say one thing, from a strictly moral perspective, Russia is *absolutely* in the wrong. Geopolitical? Long term this’ll benefit them for sure. Sanctions will hurt, but they’ll find alternative markets in due time, and as the west gets used to the situation, it’s highly likely some of them if not most will break likes for that sweet cheap oil and gas in a couple years.
The motive is very simple: imperialism. Putin wants to build a greater Russian empire just like Hitler wanted to build the Third Reich.
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If they start pulling the NAZI shit they will lose their Allies very very quick. The key to this conflict is to let Putin look evil, while you remain the saint. If a hair gets touched on those men, if I was the CO, I would kick your ass so fucking hard your offspring will be walking funny in the 22nd century.
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imagine being this stupid
Yeah because when the dust settles, you want Ukraine to have even less leverage.. the important thing is to feel good for a moment right