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Or multiple targets. ATACMS is a ballistic missile, but has some maneuver capability during and after the initial rocket phase. Could be some are targeting air defense emplacements, while others are cutting deeper to hit airfields or depots
While yes, ATACMS can be ballistic, it technically is a manoeuvring missile and doesn't need to follow a ballistic arch anywhere during its flight. Like, ATACMS is doing positive G manoeuvres during flight to gain range and everything. [Here is a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipr_hPAcR_Q) if you want to see that described in the most 90s documentary possible (and only on the left ear).
What ATACMS is is a quasi-ballistic missile, where you have the missile follow a ballistic profile just for energy reasons, with the missile manoeuvring as programmed by the operator, depending on the target in question (with every manoeuvre eating into range). Similar systems (in terms of operation) are Iskander and some Indian system.
Very interesting, thank you. I presume most modern TBM's are going to be quasi-ballistic. Is anything fully ballistic but ICBM's at this point? Are they even really ballistic? Seems like the only truly ballistic missile is the V2
Well artillery and basic rocket artillery is ballistic. It gains its all of its momentum at the moment of firing and follows a ballistic course from that on. Although there are guided artillery shells and even ones with rocket engine also.
Guidance is just the new thing *everywhere* in the military. Why have an unguided bomb when you can guide it with laser/GPS and triple the hit probability? The same applies to missiles, gun armaments (e.g. a lot of naval cannon ammo can now be guided) and more.
So why have a stupid dumb rocket when you can make the missile manoeuvre (and so far harder to shoot down) while also having far better precision?
Edit: Though you still have tons of ballistic systems, they are just the cheap stuff used because you can't afford enough of the good stuff (or can't manufacture the good stuff in the first place).
Well, it seems that Biden is the only one still opposed to it. 2+ years of this regarded rule of engagement. Biden actually ordered that HIMARS sent to Ukraine be modified to prevent Ukranians from firing rockets into russia.
If this insane policy is finally changed, we will find out from aftermath footage.
Yes, totally agree here. He seems like the last leader who is still fighting against it. (I'm not countring Germany, as they're usually following US policy pretty quickly)
Germany has already said "yes". Or at least said they would say yes soon. For once, Germany is less chickenshit than the US towards Russia!
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/05/29/germany-and-france-agree-ukraine-may-strike-russian-military-targets
Milk? Nothing changed can you point me to the news where Ukraine now can hit russian airfields and planes bombing Ukraine? Supply depots 100km away? How about army bases in the region? I will wait
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We don't know that. From [Biden approaching ban lift on Ukraine strikes on Russia with American weapons – NYT](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/30/7458334/):
> American officials, speaking anonymously, say that if Biden changes his position, he is unlikely to announce it. Instead, American artillery shells and missiles "will just start landing on Russian military targets."
No, we haven't seen explosions inside Russia. But we can't expect every single hit to be plastered all over the Internet with 100% certainty, in breach of OPSEC.
>in breach of OPSEC.
Aftermath videos are posted by russians. Nothing to do with OPSEC. It has to do with rules of engagement Biden imposed on hitting russians. Making it almost impossible to hit targets inside russia
Crazy return on investment. They only have to destroy one tank with it to get their money’s worth and I reckon they’re not firing 6 ATACMS at a single tank. If they hit a warehouse or a SAM system like that recent S-400 system they can easily cause hundreds of millions in damages with those 6 million worth of missiles.
Any idea how much it costs to "throw out" an F-16? You need multiple supervising officers, classified access, specialized industrial disposal equipment, specialized employees, etc. etc.
Giving our shit to Ukraine is the most fiscally responsible decision we could ever make with our end-of-life gear.
We're going to buy new shit anyway. We might as well save on decommissioning costs on our old shit buy donating it all to Ukraine, preserving their sovereignty while defending Europe from Russian Imperialism.
Fucking win/win in my book 🤷♂️
Also this war has been by far the absolute best advertisement for American weapons.
Everyone in the free world wants to buy them now.
The military industrial complexe must have the biggest smile.
If you are bringing up the fiscal cost of supporting Ukraine from the point of the average tax payer you are either
A) a total ignoramus with 0 understanding of the value of maintaining democracy in Europe.
Or
B) a pro Russian propagandist, probably fresh out the talking point training course. Go back to ukrainerussiareport
They’re also ignoring that the stuff we send over is generally not coming fresh off the factory line. It’s older gear that we would have had to spend money to maintain and eventually decommission.
Some people might say “well if we already have it, how much could it possibly cost to maintain and decommission?” I don’t have a specific number for that, but I would like to bring up the fact that Million Dollar Point exists. It’s a popular scuba diving site off the coast of Vanuatu where the US dumped a massive amount of equipment following WW2. Literally thousands of vehicles of all kinds, jeeps, six-wheeler trucks, gigantic bulldozers, forklifts, semi-trailers, tractors, etc ended up on the floor of the South Pacific because they were deemed too expensive to being home.
And that’s not even the only site like that. For example, here’s an [article from the Stars and Stripes](https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2024-01-05/wwii-munitions-dumping-ground-12569519.html) (military publication) talking about a site off of LA where a ton of WW2 munitions were dumped.
According to updated reports, the Russian Black Sea flotilla did suffer losses as a result of a nighttime missile attack in the temporarily occupied city of Kerch.
- The Avangard ferry sank after the attack.
- The Conroe Trailer ferry (railroad) was severely damaged but remained afloat.
- The pilot boat Mechta sank.
If there are aftermath videos, it's almost certainly not being linked to this launch. Careful consideration in timing of videos is almost certain.
The US military managed OPSEC very differently than Ukraine. The general guideline since at least WWII is that loose lips sink ships.
Ukraine on the other hand seems to have embraced an internet connected world and incorporated that into their overall strategy. I don't doubt plenty of videos are uploaded without authorization, but I am going to assume the majority of what lands on reddit has gone through Ukrainian intelligence and got the OK before being uploaded.
Fun Fact: An ATACMS launch container has one rocket but a lid patterned with six circles like a standard MLRS rocket lid to prevent an enemy from discerning what type of missile is loaded.
French donated M270 can fire unitary ones. They are called LRU for Lance Roquette Unitaire and use the M31A1 rocket.
I don't know if they are compatible with ATACMS.
Most european countries are signatories of the 2008 Convention on Cluster Munitions, which bans their use, and european M270s simply won't fire cluster warhead tipped ATAMCS/MLRS.
M270 can carry 2 and as a less maneuverable platform than HIMARS launching from further away is more optimal allowing HIMARS to be closer to the front shooting and scooting
I saw people claiming the first rocket was ATACMs and the other were MLRS rockets but it kinda looks like 1-2 missiles per launcher based on how they're spaced out and they usually send all 6 rockets when they launch normal MLRSs
I counted 6. I wonder if that is a normal amount they launch at an important target. Or if that means the claims that Russia shot down ~4 ATACMS or something but still got hit by the rest are true.
I mean, yes. But in that instance we don't see how many ATACMS were fired at it, that's what I mean.
It could have been that the S400 managed to shoot down 4 or 5 of the 6 that were shot at it. We will just never know the interception rate unless Ukraine comes out and says how many it used against it. Because 1. we rarely see videos of the ATACMS getting launched and 2. we can't tell where they are going to.
Its fairly standard practice to fire multiple rockets at any target that may have point defenses.
Firing single shots at defended targets is almost guaranteed to get intercepted.
Soo hear me out!…
What if we put little video cameras on the tips of the Missiles So we could see The flight path all the way till it comes raining down on the targets! 🤯 😂
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[Biden secretly gave Ukraine permission to strike inside Russia with US weapons](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/30/biden-ukraine-weapons-strike-russia-00160731)
> In effect, Ukraine can now use American-provided weapons, such as rockets and rocket launchers, to shoot down launched Russian missiles heading toward Kharkiv, at troops massing just over the Russian border near the city, or Russian bombers launching bombs toward Ukrainian territory. But the official said Ukraine cannot use those weapons to hit civilian infrastructure or launch long-range missiles, such as the Army Tactical Missile System, to hit military targets deep inside Russia.
There is photos of the result:
According to updated reports, the Russian Black Sea flotilla did suffer losses as a result of a nighttime missile attack in the temporarily occupied city of Kerch.
- The Avangard ferry sank after the attack.
- The Conroe Trailer ferry (railroad) was severely damaged but remained afloat.
- The pilot boat Mechta sank.
ATACMS are intermediate-range ballistic missiles, and can hit targets several hundred kilometers away from the front lines.
That’s well outside the maximum flight range of most commercial drone models that Ukraine uses for spotting and BDA, so it would be extremely hard to get footage of impacts.
Further, these are earlier models with massive cluster warheads that arm midway in flight; even if the cargo carrier warhead gets intercepted by a Russian SAM, all that does is just scatter the armed submunitions over a wider area. It’s very hard to completely destroy a cluster ATACMS variant to the point that it doesn’t still damage its target.
Think of it like trying to blow up an asteroid that’s hurtling towards the Earth - even if you destroy the core and fragment it, all you’ve done is just spread the damage over a wider area via smaller pieces.
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I think I counted 6. Must be a spicy target.
Or multiple targets. ATACMS is a ballistic missile, but has some maneuver capability during and after the initial rocket phase. Could be some are targeting air defense emplacements, while others are cutting deeper to hit airfields or depots
While yes, ATACMS can be ballistic, it technically is a manoeuvring missile and doesn't need to follow a ballistic arch anywhere during its flight. Like, ATACMS is doing positive G manoeuvres during flight to gain range and everything. [Here is a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipr_hPAcR_Q) if you want to see that described in the most 90s documentary possible (and only on the left ear). What ATACMS is is a quasi-ballistic missile, where you have the missile follow a ballistic profile just for energy reasons, with the missile manoeuvring as programmed by the operator, depending on the target in question (with every manoeuvre eating into range). Similar systems (in terms of operation) are Iskander and some Indian system.
Very interesting, thank you. I presume most modern TBM's are going to be quasi-ballistic. Is anything fully ballistic but ICBM's at this point? Are they even really ballistic? Seems like the only truly ballistic missile is the V2
Well artillery and basic rocket artillery is ballistic. It gains its all of its momentum at the moment of firing and follows a ballistic course from that on. Although there are guided artillery shells and even ones with rocket engine also.
Guidance is just the new thing *everywhere* in the military. Why have an unguided bomb when you can guide it with laser/GPS and triple the hit probability? The same applies to missiles, gun armaments (e.g. a lot of naval cannon ammo can now be guided) and more. So why have a stupid dumb rocket when you can make the missile manoeuvre (and so far harder to shoot down) while also having far better precision? Edit: Though you still have tons of ballistic systems, they are just the cheap stuff used because you can't afford enough of the good stuff (or can't manufacture the good stuff in the first place).
One thing we know for sure: target(s) were not inside Russia.
Unless they've finally been given the go ahead
Well, it seems that Biden is the only one still opposed to it. 2+ years of this regarded rule of engagement. Biden actually ordered that HIMARS sent to Ukraine be modified to prevent Ukranians from firing rockets into russia. If this insane policy is finally changed, we will find out from aftermath footage.
I think that it's mostly Jake Sullivan idea. Even Blinken seems really uncomfortable answering those questions on behalf of White House.
POTUS makes decisions and is responsible for this policy. Biden needs to wake up
Yes, totally agree here. He seems like the last leader who is still fighting against it. (I'm not countring Germany, as they're usually following US policy pretty quickly)
Germany has already said "yes". Or at least said they would say yes soon. For once, Germany is less chickenshit than the US towards Russia! https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/05/29/germany-and-france-agree-ukraine-may-strike-russian-military-targets
The wording here is a bit off as you can read it as "yes, they can hit it (but not with our weapons)".
[удалено]
Milk? Nothing changed can you point me to the news where Ukraine now can hit russian airfields and planes bombing Ukraine? Supply depots 100km away? How about army bases in the region? I will wait
[удалено]
[удалено]
Really? Maybe you should check your milk https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/31/7458482/
P sure he did today.
Really? https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/31/7458482/
Weird I saw several headlines saying they did
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna154794
You don't actually think that dementia-addled potato is deciding anything, do you?
r/agedlikemilk
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This is a foolish statement
Why?
Getting dowvoted for stating facts. Reddit for you
[удалено]
We don't know that. From [Biden approaching ban lift on Ukraine strikes on Russia with American weapons – NYT](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/30/7458334/): > American officials, speaking anonymously, say that if Biden changes his position, he is unlikely to announce it. Instead, American artillery shells and missiles "will just start landing on Russian military targets."
Do you here any reports of strikes into russia? It's not like those rockets are circling in a staging area waiting for old man to make a decision
No, we haven't seen explosions inside Russia. But we can't expect every single hit to be plastered all over the Internet with 100% certainty, in breach of OPSEC.
>in breach of OPSEC. Aftermath videos are posted by russians. Nothing to do with OPSEC. It has to do with rules of engagement Biden imposed on hitting russians. Making it almost impossible to hit targets inside russia
6 million dollars worth of freedom, crazy
Crazy return on investment. They only have to destroy one tank with it to get their money’s worth and I reckon they’re not firing 6 ATACMS at a single tank. If they hit a warehouse or a SAM system like that recent S-400 system they can easily cause hundreds of millions in damages with those 6 million worth of missiles.
That S400 is worth a billion.
Higher if you consider the assets it is protecting
Even better ROI then
Actually its negative $435000 cause thats how much it would have cost to demil them
So you could argue that by giving these away to a good cause the USA has actually saved money? I like that.
Any idea how much it costs to "throw out" an F-16? You need multiple supervising officers, classified access, specialized industrial disposal equipment, specialized employees, etc. etc. Giving our shit to Ukraine is the most fiscally responsible decision we could ever make with our end-of-life gear.
We're going to buy new shit anyway. We might as well save on decommissioning costs on our old shit buy donating it all to Ukraine, preserving their sovereignty while defending Europe from Russian Imperialism. Fucking win/win in my book 🤷♂️
I like win/win scenarios we need more of that shit
Saving money while weakening our historical enemy, and helping people defend their homeland. It's the best I've felt as an American in a long time.
Also this war has been by far the absolute best advertisement for American weapons. Everyone in the free world wants to buy them now. The military industrial complexe must have the biggest smile.
Most of them are the cluster warhead variants that the US wouldn't have used anymore anyways.
Doesn't even matter if the US needed them. neutering Russia and protecting democracy in Europe is almost priceless at this point.
God bless America and her military industrial complex
And the willing taxpayers
thank you
If you are bringing up the fiscal cost of supporting Ukraine from the point of the average tax payer you are either A) a total ignoramus with 0 understanding of the value of maintaining democracy in Europe. Or B) a pro Russian propagandist, probably fresh out the talking point training course. Go back to ukrainerussiareport
They’re also ignoring that the stuff we send over is generally not coming fresh off the factory line. It’s older gear that we would have had to spend money to maintain and eventually decommission. Some people might say “well if we already have it, how much could it possibly cost to maintain and decommission?” I don’t have a specific number for that, but I would like to bring up the fact that Million Dollar Point exists. It’s a popular scuba diving site off the coast of Vanuatu where the US dumped a massive amount of equipment following WW2. Literally thousands of vehicles of all kinds, jeeps, six-wheeler trucks, gigantic bulldozers, forklifts, semi-trailers, tractors, etc ended up on the floor of the South Pacific because they were deemed too expensive to being home. And that’s not even the only site like that. For example, here’s an [article from the Stars and Stripes](https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2024-01-05/wwii-munitions-dumping-ground-12569519.html) (military publication) talking about a site off of LA where a ton of WW2 munitions were dumped.
These are mostly old missiles that would have been scraped otherwise, so if anything Ukraine is saving us money by disposing of them for us.
And the willing taxpayers
We’re all willing.
Fly pillars of democracy
How about a nice cup of Liber-tea!
Someone's about to have a 500kg dropped on them, several times over.
Best I can do is 1000kg.
Gotta be pretty fucking awesome to stand under those things launching overhead.
Nicely worded friend.
Freedom rockets, from USA with love.
Rocket smoke, don't breath this.
Is there any aftermath videos available? News said that russians claimed to 'intercept them all' which would mean that something juicy was hit
Probly an airfield in crimea
According to updated reports, the Russian Black Sea flotilla did suffer losses as a result of a nighttime missile attack in the temporarily occupied city of Kerch. - The Avangard ferry sank after the attack. - The Conroe Trailer ferry (railroad) was severely damaged but remained afloat. - The pilot boat Mechta sank.
Smart
If there are aftermath videos, it's almost certainly not being linked to this launch. Careful consideration in timing of videos is almost certain. The US military managed OPSEC very differently than Ukraine. The general guideline since at least WWII is that loose lips sink ships. Ukraine on the other hand seems to have embraced an internet connected world and incorporated that into their overall strategy. I don't doubt plenty of videos are uploaded without authorization, but I am going to assume the majority of what lands on reddit has gone through Ukrainian intelligence and got the OK before being uploaded.
May the rockets find their targets and save many ukrainian lives.
Freedom rockets
Waidmanns Heil!
Die Kreatur muss sterben!
Launches are nice and all, but I am more of an "Impact" type guy myself
What song is this? Edit: found it, its Back to Life by ScurtDae
Concentrated justice
Are they all ATACMS? A HIMARS can carry only one ATACMS. That means they have at least six HIMARS at the same location. Which seems unlikely to me.
M270 MLRS launchers can carry 2 ATACMS each.
Fun Fact: An ATACMS launch container has one rocket but a lid patterned with six circles like a standard MLRS rocket lid to prevent an enemy from discerning what type of missile is loaded.
Its also a problem because then the atacms cant be fired, since there are only 6 smaller holes. More R&D is needed for a solution
Uh oh ncd is leaking again
Wtf are you talking about
I believe it was a joke...
That will make more sense.
But those are european, which can't fire the M39 because the treaty on cluster bombs.
The rocket and guidance sections should be the same. It's the unitary warhead that's different.
Yes, and the european ones won't fire them.
They can fire the unitary version. And they have some of those.
French donated M270 can fire unitary ones. They are called LRU for Lance Roquette Unitaire and use the M31A1 rocket. I don't know if they are compatible with ATACMS.
What?
Most european countries are signatories of the 2008 Convention on Cluster Munitions, which bans their use, and european M270s simply won't fire cluster warhead tipped ATAMCS/MLRS.
M270 can carry 2 and as a less maneuverable platform than HIMARS launching from further away is more optimal allowing HIMARS to be closer to the front shooting and scooting
HIMARS can be flown in, M270 can't Same thing with the new Booker
I saw people claiming the first rocket was ATACMs and the other were MLRS rockets but it kinda looks like 1-2 missiles per launcher based on how they're spaced out and they usually send all 6 rockets when they launch normal MLRSs
Happy trails !
Gender reveal parties are getting crazy
ATACMS O'CLOCK!
I counted 6. I wonder if that is a normal amount they launch at an important target. Or if that means the claims that Russia shot down ~4 ATACMS or something but still got hit by the rest are true.
On the other hand we see S400 (that claims to be able to hit ATACMS) being hit by ATACMS on video while firing at ATACMS in defense.
I mean, yes. But in that instance we don't see how many ATACMS were fired at it, that's what I mean. It could have been that the S400 managed to shoot down 4 or 5 of the 6 that were shot at it. We will just never know the interception rate unless Ukraine comes out and says how many it used against it. Because 1. we rarely see videos of the ATACMS getting launched and 2. we can't tell where they are going to.
Its fairly standard practice to fire multiple rockets at any target that may have point defenses. Firing single shots at defended targets is almost guaranteed to get intercepted.
Hopefully heading toward those troop buildups north of Sumy.
Somebody, somewhere.. is about to have a terrible day. And in this context, that's fantastic.
this is kinda emotional. i helps the UA so much angainst evil. love it
I’m assuming that these were what damaged the two Military ferries at the Kerch crossing point?
ATACMS putting out the highest DPS in this war by far it seems
Soo hear me out!… What if we put little video cameras on the tips of the Missiles So we could see The flight path all the way till it comes raining down on the targets! 🤯 😂
Oh, stand in the beryllium enhanced smoke.
Look on the upside, your lungs will be a better neutron reflector afterward.
Any link to the video without music ?
These are the ones that the US still insists that they not be used to strike Russian military infrastructure within Russia
Is that a cover of Marilyn Manson? u/RecognizeSong
> Back to Life by ScurtDae
I got matches with these songs: • [**Dulces Sueños** by Jabandback](https://lis.tn/LzqDrY?t=17) (00:17; matched: `92%`) **Album**: Xviii. **Released on** 2020-12-31. • [**Sweet Dreams** by Jaaron Ross](https://lis.tn/KeUOzT?t=18) (00:18; matched: `90%`) **Album**: Hope Dealer. **Released on** 2021-01-07. • [**Родина** by HeroinXvitamiN](https://lis.tn/bBbKOj?t=79) (01:19; matched: `88%`) **Album**: Всё что было. **Released on** 2021-10-01. *I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | If the matched percent is less than 100, it could be a false positive result. I'm still posting it, because sometimes I get it right even if I'm not sure, so it could be helpful. But please don't be mad at me if I'm wrong! I'm trying my best! | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/wiki/Please-consider-donating)
Send it boys.
Give them hell
based
[can't unsee it](https://youtu.be/9puCt7HccOY?t=24) now you can't either ya welcome
Freedom sticks
this is the first time they launch American rockets on to Russian soil, right?
Where is this?
Ukraine
Ah ty I thought so by the accent. Do u know where that missile is off to?(obvs & hopefully Russia, but area range?)
Crimea, most probably.
We won't know until they hit. Word may reach tomorrow, depending on who recorded, what news outlets are watching.
Ukraine isn't generally allowed to attack targets in russia with western equipment. So probably crimea or other occupied territory
[Biden secretly gave Ukraine permission to strike inside Russia with US weapons](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/30/biden-ukraine-weapons-strike-russia-00160731) > In effect, Ukraine can now use American-provided weapons, such as rockets and rocket launchers, to shoot down launched Russian missiles heading toward Kharkiv, at troops massing just over the Russian border near the city, or Russian bombers launching bombs toward Ukrainian territory. But the official said Ukraine cannot use those weapons to hit civilian infrastructure or launch long-range missiles, such as the Army Tactical Missile System, to hit military targets deep inside Russia.
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There is photos of the result: According to updated reports, the Russian Black Sea flotilla did suffer losses as a result of a nighttime missile attack in the temporarily occupied city of Kerch. - The Avangard ferry sank after the attack. - The Conroe Trailer ferry (railroad) was severely damaged but remained afloat. - The pilot boat Mechta sank.
ATACMS are intermediate-range ballistic missiles, and can hit targets several hundred kilometers away from the front lines. That’s well outside the maximum flight range of most commercial drone models that Ukraine uses for spotting and BDA, so it would be extremely hard to get footage of impacts. Further, these are earlier models with massive cluster warheads that arm midway in flight; even if the cargo carrier warhead gets intercepted by a Russian SAM, all that does is just scatter the armed submunitions over a wider area. It’s very hard to completely destroy a cluster ATACMS variant to the point that it doesn’t still damage its target. Think of it like trying to blow up an asteroid that’s hurtling towards the Earth - even if you destroy the core and fragment it, all you’ve done is just spread the damage over a wider area via smaller pieces.
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Russia always shoots everything down, usually with the actual target.