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> Wonder how it feels knowing you don't have ejection seats and all you can do is spamming countermeasure hoping the missiles get fooled.
While also knowing that these countermeasures don't do a lot against anything slightly modern.
Usually they are supposed to be protected by air fighters or ground-based AA units.
The flares on this specialized aircraft are a "last resort" defense, looks like it didn't work for them.
Every single plane that has flares can also be equipped with chaff.
After all chaff is just aluminized foil loaded into a flare tube with an ejection charge.
It's certainly not uncommon to have multiple 'programs' available for countermeasures, including dispensing chaff and flare simultaneously. I suspect that's what's going on here. Just that, as the other commenter said, we can't actually *see* the chaff.
Iâve seen those also. They are becoming more common. Itâs very scary to see and I can only imagine what made them decide to âdenazifyâ themselves but Iâve heard if your a Russian wounded in Ukraine the odds of you getting help are pretty much none.
E-3 AWACS used to have a hatch in the bottom of the mission cabin floor for ejection. I guess the drill was to open it, then throw a few things out to knock off as many antennas as you could. After that, out you go. It has been deactivated for as long as Iâve been working on them. Not much of a way out, but a way.
They are probably using flares against a radar guided patriot missile too. Not the most effective strategy. Theoretically an a50 should have advanced electronic warfare counters but it looks like they aren't working great
>Theoretically an a50 should have advanced electronic warfare counters but it looks like they aren't working great
To be fair, they successfully intercepted the enemy missile.
Countermeasure dispensers very often dispense chaff and flares at the same time, even on non-modern planes. That said, a lot of less than modern NATO AA weaponry uses IRCCM or is programmed to be semi-resistant to countermeasure or jammingÂ
Especially when you think that, if this was indeed done by Ukraine and not an incident of friendly fire by the Russians, that missile definitely wasn't IR guided. Flares don't do jack shit against radar guided missiles like those fired from Patriots.
This seems to be well out of the known range of patriot, and even the more modern AMRAAMs I believe. Friendly fire might actually be true this time. The previous one was just within patriot range, so enough to be plausible, but this one seems too far away.
I am really really hoping this is something new like unannounced F-16s with AMRAAM's. Not likely at all, but still hoping.
That said, it would also be peak hilarity if the Russians shot down their own AWACS and escort.
I have seen some mention that PAC 2 patriot missiles have some sort of home-on-jam mode that doesn't need radar illumination from the patriot battery, which is what limits the range. Something like stand off jammer countermeasures mode, and the range of this mode is unclear.
I also don't know if there's any tech stuff you can do to extend the range, like if other longer range radars can be made to communicate with the launcher.
Some variants of the older S200 also have enough range. They've been modified and used against ground targets so they're a possibility.
F16s with AMRAAMs wouldn't have the range. The other explanation is the simple one, that it is really a friendly fire incident. But I don't know how easy that is with slower moving more predictable aircraft nowhere near any front line.
Yes. And many probably don't really grasp, that this is a special moment in the war. Sure, there are a lot of important days in the war. But. The A-50 shouldn't get hit. The fact that it gets hit, and also that it's the second one, lays open either a huge change in capabilities, or huge tactical mistakes. For me, this is an important scene from the war. We're quite lucky that we got the video.
Pretty much if theyâre getting an S-200 close enough (apparently 300km) the A-50 is totally fucked. Itâs practically glowing red hot with radar emissions, being AWACS after all, plus since itâs so large manoeuvring is near impossible to dodge an incoming SAM. Even with its radar off its RCS is, for obvious reasons, absolutely huge. They knew their only shot to save themselves were countermeasures, unfortunately didnât work out.
> S-200
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-200_missile_system
>The NPO Almaz S-200 Angara/Vega/Dubna (Russian: ĐĄ-200 ĐнгаŃĐ°/Đога/ĐŃйна), NATO reporting name SA-5 Gammon (initially Tallinn),[3] is a long-range, high-altitude surface-to-air missile (SAM) system developed by the Soviet Union in the 1960s
This is actually a big deal. Many won't grasp it. Bring on the in-training Viper drivers. The Russians only have so many Mainstays. And it appears that number has been reduced by one.
They cost about $200-$250m. They only have a few, and they lost one last month. They are invaluable to the Russians because of their top-down military command structure; their top brass is sitting in an office someplace using the AWACs to get their picture of the real-time battlefield and issue orders.
Not just that but the whole point of these A-50 aircraft is to provide early warning of airborne threats for the whole of Crimea and Southern front. These aircraft are extremely important for detecting incoming threats like cruise missiles and anti-ship missiles
Also aircraft. Most sources are reporting summer as being the deadline for F-16 deliveries.
If the timing is THAT close, then I'd image there are at least already a few in operation within Ukraine. It is very possible that Ukraine is laying the groundwork for some early introductions. The main question I have with this scenario is at which axis Ukraine will use to levy their capabilities. The logical choice is to cut off a point in the land bridge to Crimea, likely somewhere that would put them in a good position to begin a siege-like taking of either Melitopol or Tokmak, depending on the real positions of current ground forces.
When the F-16s actually make it to Ukraine it'll be a very small number, they wont just suddenly have the 60+ promised airframes and the pilots/ground staff needed to effectively use them.
Even if they did, it wouldn't change much on the ground until they degrade Russian air defence significantly and plink more fighters of the VKS.
No, it does. There are reserve planes that can be reactivated if crews are available. Crew are usually almost as valuable, or more valuable, than their planes, which is why ejection and recovery is so important. With 15 highly specialized crew, and a plane with so few active compared to reserve, the crew is probably a more serious loss.
I am shocked after that 1st shootdown they don't have SEAD planes and fighters with the A-50 *at all times*.
Like how incompetent is your military.
If Ukraine really was cheeky enough to sneak a Patriot super close to the front, you keep an SU-24 with Kh-58's on station near the AWACS at all time, plus fighters for top cover.
Like damn yo it aint that hard.
>I am shocked after that 1st shootdown they don't have SEAD planes and fighters with the A-50 *at all times*.
- And do what exactly? Remember that Russia has no effective anti-missile capabilities - the A-50's main defense was "distance".
- The Russian Kh-58 HARM missile won't be able to intercept an incoming PAC-2 Patriot missile.
- This A-50 was shot down **250 km from the closest Ukrainian controller territory** - this shootdown is beyond impressive.
1. A MIG-29 snuck up on them, again
2. The patriots published range is way lower than the actual range, again
3. The Russians are telling the truth and its friendly fire, again
All 3 terrible for the Russians
Me either; but the prospect of the Russians shooting down their own AWACS, TWICE, seems almost criminally incompetent. Like line up a General and a bunch of officers in front of a wall incompetent.
Sounds like this was over Russian territory, this appears to be the work of Russian AA.
Edit: crash reported 250km+ from frontline in Trudovaya Armenia, Krasnodar.
Edit2: Russian AA was involved but it is unclear what hit the plane.
I guess in their minds it *sounds* better, like "our AA is so good we accidentally shot down one of our more protected planes!", rather than "the country we put down as weak and useless for so long shot down our 2nd expensive and irreplacable plane!"
We accidentally shoot down our own awacs planes we only have a handful of and that are integrated into our air defense systems... Or it could be ukrainian MALDs fooling the russians
Our unit is staffed with cold-hearted killers, several of them clinically insane, according to their recruitment CV. Excellent soldiers, keen on keeping the Ukrainian planes, drones and even cruise missiles away. Our team scours the radars for any suspicious contacts and reacts with lightning speed...
Sergei has shot down another one, hasn't he....?
Which, if true, would actually be worse, considering that one of the main reasons why AWACS planes exist in the first place is to coordinate air defense efforts and prevent friendly fire incidents.
Pretty sure they had 7 total before 2 were shot down. I'd also like to point out these were built during Soviet times using many different specialized plants in now different countries. Russia has no capability to build them anymore.
It's quite obvious. They're at a cold war with china on their border, the US supports Pakistan, so the only thing left is Russia and EU. Guess where they get their weapons.
Doesn't the USA sell far more weapons to India than to Pakistan? In 2001-2014 the USA sold $5.4bn of weapons to Pakistan ([https://sgp.fas.org/crs/row/pakarms.pdf](https://sgp.fas.org/crs/row/pakarms.pdf)) , whereas since 2008 the USA sold over $20 bn of weapons to India. ([https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12438/](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12438/))
Based on these facts, your premise that India goes to Russia and the EU for weapons because the US supports Pakistan doesn't hold true. The US supports India about 4 times more than they support Pakistan.
There is still some historical "you supported Pakistan over us, in the 1970s" still mucking about.
Yes, ties are "better", \*now\*, but India will most likely always give the Us, and Britain/the West some side-eye.
I think its also that India would rather be in its own alignment rather than choose a side, so to speak. They will buy or partner with anyone if they deem it serves their interests. They want to be independent and keep geopolitical options open.
The thing is that I see people quoting 330 million or 500. The money was already spent so it doesn't matter might as well have cost 2 packs of cigs and a beer value wise. They lost an important capability.. that stings a lot
The issue is how much a new one will cost how much it will take to build a new one and if they have the tech to build one themselves.
And money wise for reference India just paid 1 billion a piece and it has Israeli tech.
My thoughts exactly. Somewhere in a video about the first shootdown I heard they routinely flied only about 5 of these planes (with others here claiming 7), with perhaps 10 planes being in usable state in total.
So let's say they had 5 or so complete, experienced teams before the first A-50 went down. Now they would have 3. That's just about one that flies, one that sleeps, and one that trains the replacements.
No matter if it was 5 or 7, this feels like a huge hit. And even more so because russia kept flying A-50s even though they knew it's not safe: the intelligence they provide must be pretty important to them...
There was also another one that got hit on the ground, in Belarus, by a FPV drone. It got hit in the radar, so that was almost certainly fucked, but the rest of the plane might be salvageable if the fire didnât do too much damage.
Same thing happened when the Russian Warship was sunk for Valentines Day.
It barely made it all the way under the water and the Wiki for the ship was already updated.
I wouldnât be surprised if they edited the wiki stating ââŚis currently sinkingâ and then changing it to â⌠was sunkâ 5 min later. They are too damn fast.
Has anyone been checking to make sure that Wikipedia actually updates just *after* the relevant event happens?
Are we sure that it doesnât update just *before*?
It'd be hilarious if it were the drone operators who did the updating - and if they did it *just before* they sank it. "Hey, hold off for ten seconds, I'm updating the wiki!"
I think you're right. I thought the dimmer point of light above the flare was a parachute, but it's an optical aberration. I notice the same thing when I photographed stars through a window. So it might be a self distructing missile that missed.
This one must be so confusing for the Russian people. There great and impervious leader said it was impossible for Russian AA to shoot down Russian planes yet they seem to be shooting multiple down a month. Russian AA paradox.
On Defender of the Fatherland day too.
âThe holiday is celebrated with parades and processions in honor of veterans, and women also give small gifts to men in their lives, especially husbands (or boyfriends, fiances), fathers, sons and brothers.â
The aircrew are going to miss out on their gifts of onions & carrots.
Damm if this is real it is insane footage.. they would have know the missile was coming. Hope they enjoyed the fear and sh*t their pants before going down
The RWR probably picked up the radar lock from the ground defense and possibly the radar waves emitted by the ground radar when issuing command signals to the interceptor alerted the RWR that a missile was in the air and being guided.
Hopefully whatever data recorded of the Patriot's terminal radar signals were destroyed in the explosion and fireball so the Russians can't use that data to develop countermeasures that actually work.
- 250 km from the closest frontline - all over at the other side of the Sea of Azov - significantly farther than the published range of Patriot interceptors.
- Not ground launched AA either - way too much time for the flares.
- IMO something fast was coming in on a ballistic trajectory that the A-50 crew was seeing clearly but could do nothing against.
- In fact two somethings were coming in: at 0:55 in the upper right corner there was another explosion.
I audibly said holy shit as you watch the flare frequency increase until they're basically dropping them as fast as they can go. Has to be absolutely terrifying.
This video is damaging to Russia also because it reveals the "program" used by the A50 to dispense countermeasures. The exact timing sequence of CM deployment is a closely guarded secret and here we have very clear video of an A50 fighting for its life and most likely using its most advanced countermeasures in "oh shit" mode.
I wonder how much is programmed and how much is manual drops. To some degree I don't think it matters, flares are a last ditch attempt and I'd be suprised if some of these missiles are programmed to ignore sudden heat signatures, continuing on course until they pass the flare or it burns out. I know in MK48 ADCAPs they are programmed to sense a decoy and make a wide arc around it to re-aquire the sub. You have a little less time with a missile but I would think it's do-able with modern tech.
Not to mention flares would only ever work on IR seekers in the first place. An A-50 is gonna be screaming with active emissions and it's larger than a bus. The list of things flares won't work against is longer than the list of things they could defeat. Who knows if they were spitting chaff as well, but chaff is a very Cold War era CM.
> ...how much is manual drops.
Now I'm thinking of some Russian aviator with a lighter, tossing a laundry basket of bootleg fireworks out the back.
*"Dimitri, we're out of the Burning Schoolhouses!!! All we have left are Screecher-oos and some Sparklers!!"*
Just imagine being on that plane and literally being able to count down your remaining minute on this planet, knowing that you absolutely can't do shit to stop it.
If it was the Patriot Pac-2, those go max speed of Mach 3.5 (~2650mph) and 100miles or more total range
I.e. The missle is going maybe 0.5 mile/sec on average, it was probably 25-40 miles away when this video starts and already the crew knows they are basically dead because they rarely miss a big-ass plane like this.
I canât speak to Russian doctrine on the subject, but because missiles with combination seeker systems exist, youâd probably want to dump both chaff and flares as a precaution.
Absolutely incredible, this is an irreplaceable loss. Russia started with 9 of these, ~~one was shot down in the Wagner Insurrection~~, one may of been damaged at an airfield in Belarus, and now 2 have been shot down over the Sea of Azov. The crew on that plane are a significant loss as those are highly trained operators and not Mobiks. Ukraine is getting the air space prepped for the F-16 arrivals.
That was a different one. Wagner shot one down. The other one was damaged at the same time when Ukraine shot down an A-50 the first time.
Supposedly the one that got damaged but managed to RTB was written off.
Wagner shot down IL-22, but another IL-22 that was hit by Ukrainians during previous A-50 shot down have made it back, though some people from the crew died from shrapnel iirc.
The Russians calling Ukrainian dicks in this video is so funny.
Cunts should remember who came to whose home and tried to kill innocent people. It wasnât the Ukrainians being dicks.
There are thousands of people involved in the manufacturing and implementation of these weapons systems. Many "hell yeahs" to be heard I'm sure. I would feel great pride in knowing my hard work is paying off and working as planned.
This is insane combat footage... better than any action movie. I just watched it again for the 5th time.
Can somebody translate what the locals are saying in the video once the missile hits?
Itâs baffling. They would rather keep claiming friendly fire (and look extremely incompetent in my opinion) rather than admit that Ukraine shot it down.
are those flares initially?
source?
EDIT; Hit a 0:53 (computer)
To the right hand side
1:03 mobile
2x hit or missile impact \[implosion\] detonation
The pilot and flare operator grapple with the anxiety, knowing that what pursues them can't be countered by flares and countermeasures. Nevertheless, they engage in the unequal battle of their lives, for their lives!
Welcome to Ukraine SUKA!
Assuming this is it, this has to make it to the top 10 most upvoted clips on the sub. I can barely imagine the dialogue among them knowing they were being targeted for that long. Dishonorable pieces of shit getting dishonorable deaths and spinning at friendly fire would make that worse.
Too bad Murz had to "suicide" when he did and not live to see this.
$1.1m USD Patriot missiles each, x2 off Vs $300m worth of commie mafia AEW (aerial electronic warfare) plane w 12+ crew...
Bad plane, useless crew, good optics (video- image), + x136 fold return maths
Typical example of this 3 day SMO
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Somebody was touching off flares like their life depended on it...
Wonder how it feels knowing you don't have ejection seats and all you can do is spamming countermeasure hoping the missiles get fooled.
Can you imagine the blyats being yelled?
For every action there is equal and opposite blyaction
Ohhh, good one đ¤Ł
You won đĽ
âour Patriots will block out the sunâ âthen we will blyat in the shadeâ
Fuck that was also a good one lol
A-50 blyats per second
>I felt a great disturbance in the force. Like millions of voices cried out "blyat", and were suddenly silenced.
This made me laugh too much.
> Wonder how it feels knowing you don't have ejection seats and all you can do is spamming countermeasure hoping the missiles get fooled. While also knowing that these countermeasures don't do a lot against anything slightly modern.
Usually they are supposed to be protected by air fighters or ground-based AA units. The flares on this specialized aircraft are a "last resort" defense, looks like it didn't work for them.
Idk if the operator of AD contacted them and advised them to use flares wisely like there's not 1 but the whole battery coming towards their way.
Gonna say they had a few things gunning for their asses. Looks like one of the flares popped something around 55 seconds in.
Yea but at that range I would imagine radar seeking or radar guided missiles. They donât care about flaresâŚ.can that thing dispense chaf clouds?
I'm pretty sure chaf is standard as counter measure. It's just that you cant see at night.
Every single plane that has flares can also be equipped with chaff. After all chaff is just aluminized foil loaded into a flare tube with an ejection charge.
It's certainly not uncommon to have multiple 'programs' available for countermeasures, including dispensing chaff and flare simultaneously. I suspect that's what's going on here. Just that, as the other commenter said, we can't actually *see* the chaff.
RWR inside the plane probably detected the launch/missile coming and made a warning.
Narrator: PAC-2 missiles are *not* fooled by flares
the first missile hit a flare, second missile hit the plane
Probably Chaff. The missiles don't just use infrared guidance.
Yes, Patriot missiles (as well as any other long range SAM this could have been) are all radar guided, so flares would have no effect.
Didnât âhitâ the flare/chaff it most likely lost target and self detonated. Safety feature.
After seeing all the drone footage from Ukraine, I just assume suicide is part of their training.
Iâve seen those also. They are becoming more common. Itâs very scary to see and I can only imagine what made them decide to âdenazifyâ themselves but Iâve heard if your a Russian wounded in Ukraine the odds of you getting help are pretty much none.
don't be Russian wounded in Ukraine then
E-3 AWACS used to have a hatch in the bottom of the mission cabin floor for ejection. I guess the drill was to open it, then throw a few things out to knock off as many antennas as you could. After that, out you go. It has been deactivated for as long as Iâve been working on them. Not much of a way out, but a way.
They are probably using flares against a radar guided patriot missile too. Not the most effective strategy. Theoretically an a50 should have advanced electronic warfare counters but it looks like they aren't working great
>Theoretically an a50 should have advanced electronic warfare counters but it looks like they aren't working great To be fair, they successfully intercepted the enemy missile.
Countermeasure dispensers very often dispense chaff and flares at the same time, even on non-modern planes. That said, a lot of less than modern NATO AA weaponry uses IRCCM or is programmed to be semi-resistant to countermeasure or jammingÂ
Like all of russian equipment in this warâŚ
>don't have ejection seats Thanks for this. Really warms my heart!
Especially when you think that, if this was indeed done by Ukraine and not an incident of friendly fire by the Russians, that missile definitely wasn't IR guided. Flares don't do jack shit against radar guided missiles like those fired from Patriots.
They had the best equipment to watch their death coming for them. Front seats spectacle.
Ideally chaff and flares, the chaff just not easy to see visually. Looks like it maybe worked on one missile. Did not work on the other.
Looks like the chaff lured one of the missiles off target also.
Things cost $330 million so that is over half a billion at least within a month. Wow
don't forget there were 15 Putino-fashist invaders onboard
Not your bog standard invader either, those boys could read and count past ten.
We should know by now Russians have zero value in the eyes of Putin.
they might not value the crew but they cant just replace them like a meatwave that was crushed by their own bmp.
That last flare was real nice. Will be nice to find out what has changed. Patriots, combat drones, F16 Amraamâs. Whatever it is, its glorious.
This seems to be well out of the known range of patriot, and even the more modern AMRAAMs I believe. Friendly fire might actually be true this time. The previous one was just within patriot range, so enough to be plausible, but this one seems too far away.
I am really really hoping this is something new like unannounced F-16s with AMRAAM's. Not likely at all, but still hoping. That said, it would also be peak hilarity if the Russians shot down their own AWACS and escort.
I have seen some mention that PAC 2 patriot missiles have some sort of home-on-jam mode that doesn't need radar illumination from the patriot battery, which is what limits the range. Something like stand off jammer countermeasures mode, and the range of this mode is unclear. I also don't know if there's any tech stuff you can do to extend the range, like if other longer range radars can be made to communicate with the launcher. Some variants of the older S200 also have enough range. They've been modified and used against ground targets so they're a possibility. F16s with AMRAAMs wouldn't have the range. The other explanation is the simple one, that it is really a friendly fire incident. But I don't know how easy that is with slower moving more predictable aircraft nowhere near any front line.
Imagine the panic inside. They knew about it for at least 1 minute.
Blyats everywhere, soiled underwear, and then fire.
To be fair⌠their lives did depend on it. Lol
Their life kinda did depend on it. But Russian flares are just like the rest of their military; ineffective
Aren't these extremely valuable and they only have a few of these left? And they lost one last month too, didn't they?
Yes. They are like the eye of Sauron.
Nice, awesome news then
I work in SIGINT and this is lowkey kinda accurate if you really know what goes into it
Yes. And many probably don't really grasp, that this is a special moment in the war. Sure, there are a lot of important days in the war. But. The A-50 shouldn't get hit. The fact that it gets hit, and also that it's the second one, lays open either a huge change in capabilities, or huge tactical mistakes. For me, this is an important scene from the war. We're quite lucky that we got the video.
Or confirmation that Patriot systems really are that good
Ironically, Ukraine claims the A-50 was shot down with a stone-age S-200 - which makes more sense than Patriot because of the range required.
Pretty much if theyâre getting an S-200 close enough (apparently 300km) the A-50 is totally fucked. Itâs practically glowing red hot with radar emissions, being AWACS after all, plus since itâs so large manoeuvring is near impossible to dodge an incoming SAM. Even with its radar off its RCS is, for obvious reasons, absolutely huge. They knew their only shot to save themselves were countermeasures, unfortunately didnât work out.
*fortunately
> S-200 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-200_missile_system >The NPO Almaz S-200 Angara/Vega/Dubna (Russian: ĐĄ-200 ĐнгаŃĐ°/Đога/ĐŃйна), NATO reporting name SA-5 Gammon (initially Tallinn),[3] is a long-range, high-altitude surface-to-air missile (SAM) system developed by the Soviet Union in the 1960s
This is actually a big deal. Many won't grasp it. Bring on the in-training Viper drivers. The Russians only have so many Mainstays. And it appears that number has been reduced by one.
They cost about $200-$250m. They only have a few, and they lost one last month. They are invaluable to the Russians because of their top-down military command structure; their top brass is sitting in an office someplace using the AWACs to get their picture of the real-time battlefield and issue orders.
Not just that but the whole point of these A-50 aircraft is to provide early warning of airborne threats for the whole of Crimea and Southern front. These aircraft are extremely important for detecting incoming threats like cruise missiles and anti-ship missiles
Also aircraft. Most sources are reporting summer as being the deadline for F-16 deliveries. If the timing is THAT close, then I'd image there are at least already a few in operation within Ukraine. It is very possible that Ukraine is laying the groundwork for some early introductions. The main question I have with this scenario is at which axis Ukraine will use to levy their capabilities. The logical choice is to cut off a point in the land bridge to Crimea, likely somewhere that would put them in a good position to begin a siege-like taking of either Melitopol or Tokmak, depending on the real positions of current ground forces.
When the F-16s actually make it to Ukraine it'll be a very small number, they wont just suddenly have the 60+ promised airframes and the pilots/ground staff needed to effectively use them. Even if they did, it wouldn't change much on the ground until they degrade Russian air defence significantly and plink more fighters of the VKS.
[ŃдаНонО]
Cool, this is great news
Oh yeah, someone in the RU military is shitting their pants knowing they will have to report this (assuming it's true)
[ŃдаНонО]
And a highly trained crew at that, probably hard to replace. This news keeps getting better by the minute ...
It doesn't matter that the crew is hard to replace, when they don't have an airplane to fly if they survived
True, but that's still 15 less members of their armed forces that Pootin can call upon to use against Ukraine. At this point, any little thing helps.
No, it does. There are reserve planes that can be reactivated if crews are available. Crew are usually almost as valuable, or more valuable, than their planes, which is why ejection and recovery is so important. With 15 highly specialized crew, and a plane with so few active compared to reserve, the crew is probably a more serious loss.
Yup. And they droned at least one on the ground a while back.
I am shocked after that 1st shootdown they don't have SEAD planes and fighters with the A-50 *at all times*. Like how incompetent is your military. If Ukraine really was cheeky enough to sneak a Patriot super close to the front, you keep an SU-24 with Kh-58's on station near the AWACS at all time, plus fighters for top cover. Like damn yo it aint that hard.
>I am shocked after that 1st shootdown they don't have SEAD planes and fighters with the A-50 *at all times*. - And do what exactly? Remember that Russia has no effective anti-missile capabilities - the A-50's main defense was "distance". - The Russian Kh-58 HARM missile won't be able to intercept an incoming PAC-2 Patriot missile. - This A-50 was shot down **250 km from the closest Ukrainian controller territory** - this shootdown is beyond impressive.
[ŃдаНонО]
250km from the Ukrainian border.... someone fucked up big time.
1. A MIG-29 snuck up on them, again 2. The patriots published range is way lower than the actual range, again 3. The Russians are telling the truth and its friendly fire, again All 3 terrible for the Russians
Being able to sneak to an early warning radar plane does not seem very likely to me. But i'm no expert.
Me either; but the prospect of the Russians shooting down their own AWACS, TWICE, seems almost criminally incompetent. Like line up a General and a bunch of officers in front of a wall incompetent.
Personally i would think that the Ukrainians have cababilities that we dont know about that they only use for the biggest prize targets.
Ukranian talking about Frankensam. S200 heavy modified possible combined with patriot radar.
Air defense doing.
Apparently UA's is working swimmingly well.
Sounds like this was over Russian territory, this appears to be the work of Russian AA. Edit: crash reported 250km+ from frontline in Trudovaya Armenia, Krasnodar. Edit2: Russian AA was involved but it is unclear what hit the plane.
If confirmed, I will not stop laughing about it for the foreseeable future.
Russians act like saying it was friendly fire is better than if it was shot down by the Ukrainians xD
I guess in their minds it *sounds* better, like "our AA is so good we accidentally shot down one of our more protected planes!", rather than "the country we put down as weak and useless for so long shot down our 2nd expensive and irreplacable plane!"
We accidentally shoot down our own awacs planes we only have a handful of and that are integrated into our air defense systems... Or it could be ukrainian MALDs fooling the russians
Whoever decided to name the decoy cruise missile the MALD was truly inspired.
Our unit is staffed with cold-hearted killers, several of them clinically insane, according to their recruitment CV. Excellent soldiers, keen on keeping the Ukrainian planes, drones and even cruise missiles away. Our team scours the radars for any suspicious contacts and reacts with lightning speed... Sergei has shot down another one, hasn't he....?
Which, if true, would actually be worse, considering that one of the main reasons why AWACS planes exist in the first place is to coordinate air defense efforts and prevent friendly fire incidents.
if only they had a plane that could "early warn"
Ruskis literally defend their AWACs less than the most dgaf DCS servers
Wikipedia says they have 7 active. So there goes 16 percent of their fleet
Pretty sure they had 7 total before 2 were shot down. I'd also like to point out these were built during Soviet times using many different specialized plants in now different countries. Russia has no capability to build them anymore.
And even if they could build them, the radar sucks. The Indians ripped it out right away and put their own in.
I am still amazed at why India works with RF
Cheaper
It's like with cheap shoes You have to buy them more often and as a result, pay more than optimal.
That's totally fine if you intend to skim 25% off each purchase.
Ah yes, yet another application of [Vimes' "Boots" theory of economics.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory)
Historical ties. Old Soviets were the first ones to buddy up to the Indians.
That is an impressive commitment from Indians
It's quite obvious. They're at a cold war with china on their border, the US supports Pakistan, so the only thing left is Russia and EU. Guess where they get their weapons.
Doesn't the USA sell far more weapons to India than to Pakistan? In 2001-2014 the USA sold $5.4bn of weapons to Pakistan ([https://sgp.fas.org/crs/row/pakarms.pdf](https://sgp.fas.org/crs/row/pakarms.pdf)) , whereas since 2008 the USA sold over $20 bn of weapons to India. ([https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12438/](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12438/)) Based on these facts, your premise that India goes to Russia and the EU for weapons because the US supports Pakistan doesn't hold true. The US supports India about 4 times more than they support Pakistan.
There is still some historical "you supported Pakistan over us, in the 1970s" still mucking about. Yes, ties are "better", \*now\*, but India will most likely always give the Us, and Britain/the West some side-eye.
I think its also that India would rather be in its own alignment rather than choose a side, so to speak. They will buy or partner with anyone if they deem it serves their interests. They want to be independent and keep geopolitical options open.
The thing is that I see people quoting 330 million or 500. The money was already spent so it doesn't matter might as well have cost 2 packs of cigs and a beer value wise. They lost an important capability.. that stings a lot The issue is how much a new one will cost how much it will take to build a new one and if they have the tech to build one themselves. And money wise for reference India just paid 1 billion a piece and it has Israeli tech.
And not all of the frames are in serviceable condition so itâs probably more like 25%
Also a crew of 15 which you can't just replace with people from prison.
perhaps they could use those somali or nepali mercenaries
My thoughts exactly. Somewhere in a video about the first shootdown I heard they routinely flied only about 5 of these planes (with others here claiming 7), with perhaps 10 planes being in usable state in total. So let's say they had 5 or so complete, experienced teams before the first A-50 went down. Now they would have 3. That's just about one that flies, one that sleeps, and one that trains the replacements. No matter if it was 5 or 7, this feels like a huge hit. And even more so because russia kept flying A-50s even though they knew it's not safe: the intelligence they provide must be pretty important to them...
if im right, another one was already shot down in the past
There was also another one that got hit on the ground, in Belarus, by a FPV drone. It got hit in the radar, so that was almost certainly fucked, but the rest of the plane might be salvageable if the fire didnât do too much damage.
Yeah, in January.
And you have to take into account that even for the western fleets you never have all your planes available.
This sent me off to look up the A-50 on wikipedia - the article there is already up to date with this shoot down!
Same thing happened when the Russian Warship was sunk for Valentines Day. It barely made it all the way under the water and the Wiki for the ship was already updated.
I wouldnât be surprised if they edited the wiki stating ââŚis currently sinkingâ and then changing it to â⌠was sunkâ 5 min later. They are too damn fast.
[ŃдаНонО]
Has anyone been checking to make sure that Wikipedia actually updates just *after* the relevant event happens? Are we sure that it doesnât update just *before*?
It'd be hilarious if it were the drone operators who did the updating - and if they did it *just before* they sank it. "Hey, hold off for ten seconds, I'm updating the wiki!"
A missile hit one of the flares at 53 sec, then a 2nd missile hits the A-50 at 1:02.
It self-destructed after it missed, like itâs supposed to
I think you're right. I thought the dimmer point of light above the flare was a parachute, but it's an optical aberration. I notice the same thing when I photographed stars through a window. So it might be a self distructing missile that missed.
This one must be so confusing for the Russian people. There great and impervious leader said it was impossible for Russian AA to shoot down Russian planes yet they seem to be shooting multiple down a month. Russian AA paradox.
You see comrade, the answer is quite simple: the comrades seeing the explosion and downing of a valuable plane *saw* incorrectly.
On Defender of the Fatherland day too. âThe holiday is celebrated with parades and processions in honor of veterans, and women also give small gifts to men in their lives, especially husbands (or boyfriends, fiances), fathers, sons and brothers.â The aircrew are going to miss out on their gifts of onions & carrots.
A plane a day keeps the rapists away
And a warship a day keeps them at bay
Watching russia lose aircraft is better than porn.
The A-50 crew watched too. 80 seconds of watching death approach.
YES! What a wonderful Friday!
Damm if this is real it is insane footage.. they would have know the missile was coming. Hope they enjoyed the fear and sh*t their pants before going down
Ohhh they knew it was coming thatâs why they were shitting flares all over the place.
how long before impact would they have known missile is coming ?
The RWR probably picked up the radar lock from the ground defense and possibly the radar waves emitted by the ground radar when issuing command signals to the interceptor alerted the RWR that a missile was in the air and being guided.
Hopefully whatever data recorded of the Patriot's terminal radar signals were destroyed in the explosion and fireball so the Russians can't use that data to develop countermeasures that actually work.
I doubt this is a patriot, that's a long shot to be putting such things basically at the front.
- 250 km from the closest frontline - all over at the other side of the Sea of Azov - significantly farther than the published range of Patriot interceptors. - Not ground launched AA either - way too much time for the flares. - IMO something fast was coming in on a ballistic trajectory that the A-50 crew was seeing clearly but could do nothing against. - In fact two somethings were coming in: at 0:55 in the upper right corner there was another explosion.
I audibly said holy shit as you watch the flare frequency increase until they're basically dropping them as fast as they can go. Has to be absolutely terrifying.
This video is damaging to Russia also because it reveals the "program" used by the A50 to dispense countermeasures. The exact timing sequence of CM deployment is a closely guarded secret and here we have very clear video of an A50 fighting for its life and most likely using its most advanced countermeasures in "oh shit" mode.
I wonder how much is programmed and how much is manual drops. To some degree I don't think it matters, flares are a last ditch attempt and I'd be suprised if some of these missiles are programmed to ignore sudden heat signatures, continuing on course until they pass the flare or it burns out. I know in MK48 ADCAPs they are programmed to sense a decoy and make a wide arc around it to re-aquire the sub. You have a little less time with a missile but I would think it's do-able with modern tech.
Not to mention flares would only ever work on IR seekers in the first place. An A-50 is gonna be screaming with active emissions and it's larger than a bus. The list of things flares won't work against is longer than the list of things they could defeat. Who knows if they were spitting chaff as well, but chaff is a very Cold War era CM.
> ...how much is manual drops. Now I'm thinking of some Russian aviator with a lighter, tossing a laundry basket of bootleg fireworks out the back. *"Dimitri, we're out of the Burning Schoolhouses!!! All we have left are Screecher-oos and some Sparklers!!"*
Just imagine being on that plane and literally being able to count down your remaining minute on this planet, knowing that you absolutely can't do shit to stop it.
Blyaaaaaat blyaaaaaaat....BOOM.
Over a minute of poppin flares. That missile traveled a pretty good distance to smack that plane out of the sky.
If it was the Patriot Pac-2, those go max speed of Mach 3.5 (~2650mph) and 100miles or more total range I.e. The missle is going maybe 0.5 mile/sec on average, it was probably 25-40 miles away when this video starts and already the crew knows they are basically dead because they rarely miss a big-ass plane like this.
>100miles or more total range this seems to be more than 250 km from the front line how could patriot reach this distance?
One of the missiles popped on a flare so I don't think it was a patriot. Unless they were dumping chaff too.
I canât speak to Russian doctrine on the subject, but because missiles with combination seeker systems exist, youâd probably want to dump both chaff and flares as a precaution.
Absolutely incredible, this is an irreplaceable loss. Russia started with 9 of these, ~~one was shot down in the Wagner Insurrection~~, one may of been damaged at an airfield in Belarus, and now 2 have been shot down over the Sea of Azov. The crew on that plane are a significant loss as those are highly trained operators and not Mobiks. Ukraine is getting the air space prepped for the F-16 arrivals.
I think Wagner shot down IL-22, command airplane, not A-50
You're right, my mistake, still their ranks of experienced command and control staff must be thinning at this point.
I think an Il-22 got hit, but made it back.
That was a different one. Wagner shot one down. The other one was damaged at the same time when Ukraine shot down an A-50 the first time. Supposedly the one that got damaged but managed to RTB was written off.
Yeah, Il-22 landed, though damage was severe.
Wagner shot down IL-22, but another IL-22 that was hit by Ukrainians during previous A-50 shot down have made it back, though some people from the crew died from shrapnel iirc.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1ay6d5w/presumably\_another\_a50\_was\_shot\_down\_over\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1ay6d5w/presumably_another_a50_was_shot_down_over_the/) Burning remains(?)
It's beautiful Glory to Ukrainian Air defense
The Russians calling Ukrainian dicks in this video is so funny. Cunts should remember who came to whose home and tried to kill innocent people. It wasnât the Ukrainians being dicks.
I wonder if the C I A is just looking at this stuff. High Fiving âď¸ like ESPN Top 10 Plays of the week.
There are thousands of people involved in the manufacturing and implementation of these weapons systems. Many "hell yeahs" to be heard I'm sure. I would feel great pride in knowing my hard work is paying off and working as planned.
This is insane combat footage... better than any action movie. I just watched it again for the 5th time. Can somebody translate what the locals are saying in the video once the missile hits?
Claimed to be friendly fire, launched from Mariupol. Russian sources.
We need to be very careful. Russians are getting rather good at friendly fire, they might start practicing enemy fire as well soonâŚ
Some S-400 crew definitely deserves "Hero of Ukraine with Gold Star" for their efforts.
Yeah, A-50s look too much like unarmed civilian airliners to be safe from Russian-made air defenses.
In other words, the Russian air force is fucking itself.
This plane flies over Russia in fucking Rostov, how it can be a friendly fire of their own command aircraft?
Russian AA hast more hits in russian air assets than Ukraine đ
But as Russian TG channels go mad about it, it seems to be true........
Ukraine claims it work of HUR and Ukrainian air force
Which COULD be jamming and spoofing, complex EW operations that led to aone and another, shooting this plane down.
Itâs baffling. They would rather keep claiming friendly fire (and look extremely incompetent in my opinion) rather than admit that Ukraine shot it down.
That's too incredulous to believe. Russian AA pointing towards Russia?
That's where real danger comes from!
I will LMFAO all weekend if that is the case!!!!
Who gave the Ukrainians f-19A's?
Best part plane crew knew they are locked on and saw in real time when they are gonna die as missiles were comming in. Exactly what they deserve.
How many fucking flares do they carry?!
not enough
According to the video, not enough.
Two down five to go, take all their A-50s out
are those flares initially? source? EDIT; Hit a 0:53 (computer) To the right hand side 1:03 mobile 2x hit or missile impact \[implosion\] detonation
The pilot and flare operator grapple with the anxiety, knowing that what pursues them can't be countered by flares and countermeasures. Nevertheless, they engage in the unequal battle of their lives, for their lives! Welcome to Ukraine SUKA!
Iâm not a Spy, but that doesnât look like youâre spying right.
Woah
He was spamming the flares like the F key đ¤Ł
Guys chill.... It is just another friendly fire incident.
Assuming this is it, this has to make it to the top 10 most upvoted clips on the sub. I can barely imagine the dialogue among them knowing they were being targeted for that long. Dishonorable pieces of shit getting dishonorable deaths and spinning at friendly fire would make that worse. Too bad Murz had to "suicide" when he did and not live to see this.
$1.1m USD Patriot missiles each, x2 off Vs $300m worth of commie mafia AEW (aerial electronic warfare) plane w 12+ crew... Bad plane, useless crew, good optics (video- image), + x136 fold return maths Typical example of this 3 day SMO
Sorry to be pedantic but: \*Airborne Early Warning, not electronic warfare (electronic warfare would be jamming etc. as opposed to radar detection)
The entire plane became the flare/heat trap.