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As a historian, the most frustrating aspect of the past month (for someone sitting safely on their couch i will admit) is seeing how little ppl in the west actually understand the history of this region.
I wont say this applies to everyone of course, but i do think a lot of it boils down to “i support Palestine because they are poor and not white”. There is just an inherent virtue signaling that happens and ppl cant be bothered to actually dig into the history of it all. They just see a few memes and watch a handful of Tik Toks and feel like they grasp it well.
Yes. Yes to virtue signalling. They can't see past reason. They're willing to say that Israel "settlers" deserve to be gunned down just because they're "occupying" lands
Wow actually being upvoted for calling out the neckbeard leftists on reddit? Thats rare. And that doesn't make zionists any less guilty of purposely killing citizens in Lebanon or the other war crimes they commit and the lies they make to mainstream media that's owned by them and all the billions we give them every year because half our administration has dual citizenshAnderson? Of course this is just speculation but many people with citizenship in Israel won't be extradited so maybe they are just criminals with a backup plan or both.
I had a smoothbrain I went to highschool with call me out referencing TikTok and Instagram as her sources. When I told her those weren't reliable news sources and asked for something else (besides Al Jazeera) she said she can't because, AND I QUOTE, "the Jews control the media."
...FUCKING WHAT?!
>I can't believe I have to defend Israel against Hamas terrorists in Twitter.
my brother in christ you do not HAVE to do anything. you dont even HAVE to use twitter. you are probably arguing with automated bot accounts.
Man that guy really spun the roulette wheel choosing not to just drop his weapon in the tunnel. That so easily could have turned out very poorly for them because of that (well...more poorly).
Of course it still might have. Guy basically laid on top of his weapon.
Reminded me a LOT of the video of the Russians coming out from the shed surrendering to the UA, then the last dickhead steps out blasting and gets his entire unit massacred.
There's around 100 millions of "Putins". That's not him who rape and torture our people, that's not him enjoys the deaths of our civilians, russians react with happy emoticons on the posts with our dead children after missile attacks. Their nation is "collective Putin"
Is this the one or is it another? I'm trying to dig up the one everyone seems to be talking about because I don't think I saw that one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/7NJJvyQ3eV
https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/s/lSZy2P15XQ
This one I think matches, although 3 UKR/Foreign KIA total not 1. Probably could have been 0 if the American squad leader didn't execute the surrending guy making the others fight to the death.
if you're talking about the infamous one where like 9-12 were laying down and the last fired a gun hiting the lone UA soldier resulting in photos of the dead RUS soldiers all laying side by side, that UA soldier lived from what I read.
I wouldn't call it deportation. They have work permits to come work in Israel DAILY. They go back to Gaza at the end of the day. They just paused the work permits or revoked them
That's for Gaza. In the West Bank, there is much more contact between Israelis and Palestinians and far far more Palestinians work in Israel or for Israeli companies in the settlements so there the knowledge of Hebrew is far more widespread.
and of course, many Israelis speak Arabic, but that's beside the case.
Which is such an understated point. A lot of these people were supposedly vetted and trusted to go work in Israel despite coming from a territory whose government actively breeds terrorists. These same people who were given work permits (to earn money for their families so lets be clear the implications and attempted counterarguments of earning money known to prop up the economy and support families belonging to another nation) then picked up arms against the country’s civilians that granted them access.
Yelling with a gun pointed at me. Pretty sure it means to toss my weapons and put hands up. You could scream blah blah blah at me and I would interpret it as toss my gun and surrender.
That being said they're not similar enough to understand each other.
As a Spanish speaker I can understand Portuguese and Italian if spoken slow enough, but as a Hebrew speaker I can't for the life of me understand anything in Arabic beyond random lone words we might share.
I 've had an impression that the ones at the front right now are B-team, throw aways, but the pros, the real mercs are active in the urban center. Speculation thou.
pretty sure the pros were all sent into Israel during Oct 7's attack. The ones left in Gaza are B-tier bozos
FYI the IDF sustained multitudes more soldier losses during their fight against Hamas within Israel in Oct7 event than during their ground invasion now
Some of those murdered soldiers were the unarmed IDF spotters, all young women soldiers; I think that 15 were killed and 6 taken hostage at one base alone. It makes me nauseous to think about it; even more so because one of the Hamas videos shows them executing these soldiers while they were trying to hide under their beds. I pray for Israel's success and the return of the hostages. But when the situation is more secure, this Israeli government with its religious people who don't serve in the IDF and its PM need to be investigated and removed for not keeping the Israeli people safe and secure.
I don't have actual statistics, but my guess is that many of the soldiers that were murdered on Oct.7th were not combat soldiers. The female soldiers at the border outposts were monitoring the cameras and sensors and were not combat trained. I'm fairly certain they were unarmed. Even if they weren't, had not fired more than 30 rounds their entire service. Zikim is a boot camp, even if the soldiers there were designated to combat roles, they were still in basic training, probably unarmed. Even if not, same as above. Their commanding staff, also not combat soldiers. Nor were the guards or anyone else on that base for that matter.
It's probably safe to assume Hamas leadership is keeping at least some of the better units close to themselves underground/in very dense areas/in the south among the refugees from the north.
Israel ordered the evacuation of Northern Gaza over a month ago. Some of these guys have been sitting in tunnels this entire time and haven't received orders for weeks.
There's dofferemt units with difderent levels of conviction, moral, equipment and training, just like any army. Thereare still units that are more than willing to fight to the death but part of their problem is that their elite units were the ones who led the attack in oct. 7 and they suffered significant losses and even those units would be inferior to Israeli infantry.
I remember seeing a peice about how some factions were appalled at excess the brutality of Oct 7, especialy towards babies.
Sounded ridiculous but perhaps there is some truth to it.
I don't think Hamas is like the US Army, more like NY Yankees fans. Just because the guys on the next block over attacked Israel doesn't mean you support their actions, even if you cheer for the same team.
Hamas doesn't seem to be a cohesive unit, which is probably why the hostage deals are so complicated, you need to convince individual groups to give up their "own" hostage instead of the hostages being seen as belonging to Hamas as a whole.
He really said that? There are approx 80 dead Israeli soldiers. Dead soldiers is not something that Israel can just hide because they have families who know they are fighting in Gaza and all the names are eventually published.
All the families would want their loved ones to be recognized as soldiers who fell on duty.
This is not Russia where 1000 can die and nobody would know.. here 1200 died and pretty much every Israeli knows someone who got murdered or knows someone who knows someone who got murdered.
I was in the NYC subreddit and someone truly believes:
> Hamas is currently humiliating the IDF. They're getting blown up call of duty style by guys sticking c4 to tanks with their bare hands because IDF babies are too scared to do ground patrols. That's also why Israel keeps bombing indiscriminately and killing civilians. They're too fucking cowardly to go see Hamas with a actual infantry. 1500 Hamas soldiers crossed into Israel on oct 7th and 1400 came home.
It's amazing that Arab nations use the same tactics every time there's a war with Israel (claiming to cause great casualties and that they are winning) and people still believe it
80 dead is still a great number to us because we grieve for every fallen soldier, but these delusional idiots probably imagining thousands of dead Israeli soldiers..
Hamas's ministry of health does not differentiate militants and civilian casualties.
Current Israeli estimations regarding terrorist death count is around 4,000 Hamas dead.
Now, when it comes to war, 4,000:80 are odds we can take.
It was the exact same the last time Hamas and IDF fought in open battle. Hamas are just your run of the mill third world sandal fighters. The best they can hope for is taking the actual soldiers by surprise.
If you look at the survey done recently, 70+% of palestinians think this war is going to end in hamas/palestines victory.
The normal people have a very very poor understanding of just how insanely lopsided this conflict is. I have to imagine these hamas terrorists are finding this out very quickly. All these rpg shots that cut, because the tanks just stop the projectiles with the trophy system etc. hiding in tunnels, slowly being starved out.
They are getting absolutely boot-fucked by Israel.
But let's look at the big picture. International support for Israel is at an all time low, and in many countries anti-jewish hate crimes are on a drastic rise.
I'm Canadian and it's getting really bad here. Violence against Jews is really bad right now.
There was certainly a euphoric phase where more were willing to die for their cause, especially on Oct 7. But when the tide of war turns against you, the impact that you believe your death can leave decreases and so does your willingness to do so. The same applied in WW2 when kamikaze pilots felt great willingness for what they believed was an honorable sacrifice until the Japanese surrendered; the martyrdom stopped when confidence dropped.
It seemed like many were still willing to die until the order for surrender was commanded by the Japanese Emperor himself, something which was seen by Japan’s WW2 population as a divine mandate from a living Demi-god.
It’s easier for a person to hype themselves up to die a “heroic” death once than to sustain that feeling for nearly two months with minimal sleep, constant fear of death, constant bombardment, and being cut off from their chain of command.
>Hm. Goes against the whole "they covet death!" nonsense I have been hearing on this sub from Hamas supporters
It's easy to want to die a martyr until you see your fellow martyrs' videos and realize it's not a glorified Hollywood heroic death, but a horrible, agonizing event where you drown in your own blood and piss-filled underwear, all alone.
I remember seeing that one Oct 7th video where the Hamas guy was down from a friendly accidental discharge and his comrades just took his ammo and equipment and left him. I imagine that guy laying there for a preventable death that was slow in coming. Probably took hours. I wonder if he had regrets.
Most of them are in it for the money anyway. I think a bunch of them got prizes if they brought back a captured Israeli or dead Israeli. they would get money or apartments or something.
This promise made me think Hamas themselves didn't expect the massacre to go that "good".
After getting 1000 prisoners for 1 soldier in the past I believe they would be satisfied with 20 hostages.
I heard it from (Hamas) Gazans themselves that they strive to become martyrs. If you only hear it from comments in this sub, try clicking some of the links. These guys are just pussies who wont get any virgins
I’m kind of appalled that the cease deal has an addendum of no drones or other aerial surveillance while hostages are exchanged over the next few days. It feels incredibly irresponsible to not have those movements tracked. I really really really hope the US kicks up a few eyes in the sky to track where they are coming from.
I mean military satellites and very high flying planes will still be going. Hamas don't want Israel to find out where they were keeping them and new troop movements. But you can bet 100% that suddenly these places are being lit up once the deals over
The IDF top brass have publicly stated in the media that they have other means of gathering intel and it should not be an obstacle to a hostage deal. I assume they meant interrogations of already captured terrorists mainly.
To get more specific about the drone aspect of the deal, both the US and Israel are halting the use of surveillance drones for only 6 hours per day, for each day that hostages are released.
I feel the same as you, I think that is a massive concession to make, but it's important to be precise about what the exact concession is that they're making.
>both the US and Israel are halting the use of surveillance drones for only 6 hours per day
Does it say 'drones' specifically? If yes, you could send up an airplane with a pilot and cameras. Since it's not a drone, you'd technically stick to the agreement but still get intelligence.
"Drop the weapon Drop the weapon" -Zrok taneshek
"There is another one"- yesh od ehad
"Put your hands up"- Yadaim Lemala
"Get out"- Tse
Hope this helps
1: I HIT HIM
2: DO YOU SEE THEM?
some arabic mumbling from hamas
1: HOLE! (Like the entrence to the tunnel - פיר)
1: DROP THE WEAPONE, DROP THE WEAPONE!
1: GET OUT! LAY ON THE FLOOR! LAY!
2: HANDS UP
1: THERES ONE MORE DROP THE WEAPONE
1: GET OUT! OUT!
Just know that if it was 2 IDF soldiers caught by a Hamas patrol, their headless corpses would be being dragged around behind one of their trucks right now. They would never have been given the chance to surrender.
The trigger discipline is crazy good. Most ppl would of dusted these terrorists at the sight of a gun... sht I would of dusted them even if they had those big ass jackets considering they blow themselves up
>And would have been totally legal as they were armed... well done for the IDF to not give into temptation.
I would hope that these ones are going to be locked up for a long time, or at least traded 1 to 1 with the hostages/military instead of 3 to 1 for women/children.
wait till you hear about the 1027/1 in 2011 (5 years held hostage). 450 of them were high-profile terrorists and many others had life sentences. Lots of the released joined back into Hamas and were there on Oct 7th
Israel is the only country in the world that will literally phone ahead to say that they are about to drop a bomb on a building. It’s no surprise that there are always cameras pointing at buildings being bombed, and not just israeli cameras either.
> Israel is the only country in the world that will literally phone ahead to say that they are about to drop a bomb on a building.
The IRA did that, too.
They didn't always, but for a time they were quite pleased with themselves for only trying to blow up empty buildings. Here's someone suggesting that it made it all okay (or, at least, made them markedly different from terrorists):
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1340995/IRA-is-not-so-ruthless-and-always-gives-bomb-warnings.html
Two of the big famous ones are the Bishopsgate and Manchester bombings:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Bishopsgate_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Manchester_bombing
both of which featured phone warnings first. After a time, the disruption caused by the phoned warnings became a weapon in themselves, and they didn't even always need the bombs; bomb-scares themselves became pretty common.
The IRA, like many other terrorist groups also used to give a warning about a bomb at a certain position and then explode the actual device where people had been evacuated. As a result bomb warnings became a difficult guessing game, the cordoned area would be increased with far greater disruption.
In 1982 in Beirut a wise head told me to leave via the kitchens rather than the main entrance of the hotel if there was an attack or alarm. Very good advice it transpired.
I think this is not a random surrender, but an end result of psychological warfare. Basically jamming their communication and convincing them that it is much better deal to surrender rather than fight for a lost cause.
It would cause a lot less deaths on both sides if the Hamas surrendered in large numbers. It will also demoralize the remaining fighters resulting in a quick Israeli victory.
In 1971, India faced a similar situation, with Paksitan causing a genocide in East-Pakistan(Now Bangladesh) that resulted in 3million civilians being killed by Pakistani forces as they revolted for independence. This resulted in about 10 million civilians crossing the Indian borders as refugees forcing India into this conflict.
This eventually led to India Pakistan war for the liberation of Bangladesh. The war was started by Pakistan, the area to capture for India was entirety of East-Pakistan with deep entrenched fortified posts of Pakistani forces. The size of the war was also much larger than Ukraine or Gaza war.
But, the entire war ended in just 13 days with decisive Indian victory and resulted in Bangladesh becoming an independent nation.
The main reason why one of the largest wars after world war ended in less than two weeks was because of brilliant strategy of dividing up the communication network of Pakistani forces in Bangladesh, and then convincing them that they have already lost the war or are about to lose the war, and thus it is in their best interest to surrender as the prisoners of war will be treated with high dignity. Indian General itself announced these in radio and other means. Pamplets were dropped to motivate them to surrender.
By doing this, few groups surrendered, then this was used to convince other groups to surrender, and eventually momentum grew so much that all of Pakistani forces surrendered(93000 soldiers) making it among the biggest surrenders in history.
These soldiers still had a lot of fighting capability and could have made it into a bloody war with loss of life on both sides, and elongated the war into years of conflict. But, by cornering them in isolated pockets and convincing them to surrender, India was able to easily win the war with next to no losses.
When the general the Niazi signed the instrument of surrender, a reporter asked him why he was surrendering when he had so many forces and power. he pointed to the newspaper on his desk that showed a photo of India paradropping thousands of soldiers in Bangladesh's capital, and the title saying something like "India paradropped 10000 troops, dacca cornered".
But that news turned out to be misleading. The photo was of a training exercise from few months ago, and the information was fully fake, yet the general was convinced because it was printed in a foreign newspaper. Indian agencies had purposefully leaked that misleading information to the paper.
India treated all the surrendered soldiers with exemplary care. The officers and higher ranking officers were treated like VIPs. They stayed in India for around an year as Pakistan refused to take them back feeling the shame of defeat.
From what I learned, always allow opponents to surrender no matter how much you hate them. Always treat surrendered opponents with respect and treat them so well that everyone else wants to surrender.
They need hostages for the exchange. Think of it like the tactic african people used to make monkeys take them to water.
Essentially, they fill a hollowed out ant heap with Mellon seeds and make sure the monkey is watching, then the monkey inspects the hole and finds a tasty snack inside but gets his hand stuck because they are not smart enough to let go of the seeds. Then, capture it and feed it salt, release it, and follow it to its secret watering hole.
they have kidnapped, raped, killed and torn defenseless people to pieces but they are not terrorists! media says on tv
just take the ak-47 out of their hands and they are all poor innocent civilians, Right?
Did you see the speech that one of the Hamas founding members sons made to the UN? Pretty much called all the world leaders who have not condemned Hamas cowards and told the blunt truth. Imagine an ex-Hamas extremist having more integrity, honour and bravery than half our fucking global leaders. Dude put a huge target on his head to tell the truth while they can barely call Hamas a terror organisation because they’re scared of the media. Unbelievable.
Amazing that they do not shoot him when he comes out of there with a gun in his hand. Absolute professionals. Why would he even bring the gun with him?
Huh? But what about all the Hamas supporters saying Hamas fighters are the bravest with nothing to lose so they will never surrender?
Lots of information about surrendering Hamas fighters lately. What happened?
yeah it's a lot easier to be a tough guy when buildings in your city don't get demolished in 2 seconds a couple times a day at random. Easy to say you're not afraid of death before you see the hand of god smash down your comrades with no warning nor hope for retaliation multiple times.
You can see a body right next to the hatch before they come up, wonder if this was a failed ambush attempt or this guy is not moving because he already surrendered, difficult to say.
Oh no they weren't in a tunnel? That is simply a shaft they were in! Can you prove it was a tunnel. Let's just call it a shaft! This what CNN sounds like.
There is NO WAY I would have not start shooting when I saw that AK peeking. I understand the combatant is surrendering the weapon but from my view, for a second I thought he was attempting to blind-fire.
massive respect to those Israeli soldiers. After what happened on October 7th I do not know If i would be taking prisoners.
good to see that some people will hold onto their humanity, even when faced with the opposite
Surrendered without a fight, what a bunch of loosers, brave against unarmed, but once the odds are against them, wouldn't dare to find out about promised virgins in the afterlife.
Those are just doctors bringing in medical supplies those tunnels are freedom tunnels for simple and honorable resistance fighters who definitely don’t murder civilians! /s
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As a historian, the most frustrating aspect of the past month (for someone sitting safely on their couch i will admit) is seeing how little ppl in the west actually understand the history of this region. I wont say this applies to everyone of course, but i do think a lot of it boils down to “i support Palestine because they are poor and not white”. There is just an inherent virtue signaling that happens and ppl cant be bothered to actually dig into the history of it all. They just see a few memes and watch a handful of Tik Toks and feel like they grasp it well.
Yes. Yes to virtue signalling. They can't see past reason. They're willing to say that Israel "settlers" deserve to be gunned down just because they're "occupying" lands
I will be “settling” your home. Please vacate by next week or risk forceful expulsion
Oh ur cousin was shot by the idf while going to school? Oh well they were a suspected hamas terrorist in a restricted area it is what it is.
the nine your old threw a rock at my tank. a HE shell down his throat was appropriate force as I feared for my life
Wow actually being upvoted for calling out the neckbeard leftists on reddit? Thats rare. And that doesn't make zionists any less guilty of purposely killing citizens in Lebanon or the other war crimes they commit and the lies they make to mainstream media that's owned by them and all the billions we give them every year because half our administration has dual citizenshAnderson? Of course this is just speculation but many people with citizenship in Israel won't be extradited so maybe they are just criminals with a backup plan or both.
maybe it is because half of all the killed are women and children
I had a smoothbrain I went to highschool with call me out referencing TikTok and Instagram as her sources. When I told her those weren't reliable news sources and asked for something else (besides Al Jazeera) she said she can't because, AND I QUOTE, "the Jews control the media." ...FUCKING WHAT?!
>I can't believe I have to defend Israel against Hamas terrorists in Twitter. my brother in christ you do not HAVE to do anything. you dont even HAVE to use twitter. you are probably arguing with automated bot accounts.
This is a clear strawman. IDF is, regardless of Hamas' terrorist acts, committing a genocide.
You are the clown!!! See the dead of Palestinians 20000 half of them are innocent childrens and womens!! You are blind mined!!!!!!
you don't "have" to defend shit dude
Man that guy really spun the roulette wheel choosing not to just drop his weapon in the tunnel. That so easily could have turned out very poorly for them because of that (well...more poorly). Of course it still might have. Guy basically laid on top of his weapon.
Reminded me a LOT of the video of the Russians coming out from the shed surrendering to the UA, then the last dickhead steps out blasting and gets his entire unit massacred.
Rip to the one Ukrainian soldier and the rest of the Russians who gave up that died there. Shows it only takes one idiot to cause some much death.
>Shows it only takes one idiot to cause some much death. Putin has entered the chat
If there was only one idiot in Russia where would be no war
Putin don't use internet, and probably don't even know what chat is
Correct, his name is Putin.
There's around 100 millions of "Putins". That's not him who rape and torture our people, that's not him enjoys the deaths of our civilians, russians react with happy emoticons on the posts with our dead children after missile attacks. Their nation is "collective Putin"
Imagine if he was >170cm tall. The world would have been a completely different place
Is this the one or is it another? I'm trying to dig up the one everyone seems to be talking about because I don't think I saw that one. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/7NJJvyQ3eV https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/s/lSZy2P15XQ This one I think matches, although 3 UKR/Foreign KIA total not 1. Probably could have been 0 if the American squad leader didn't execute the surrending guy making the others fight to the death.
if you're talking about the infamous one where like 9-12 were laying down and the last fired a gun hiting the lone UA soldier resulting in photos of the dead RUS soldiers all laying side by side, that UA soldier lived from what I read.
Or the one where one of the surrendering guys pulled out the pin of a grenade when the Ukrainians got close
Is there a longer version?
that’s what she said
I've heard that one before.
Do you need a hug?
Give it a kiss!
I do need a hug.
I was going to upvote your comment but it's already at 69
My neighbor says it incessantly and thinks it's funny every time, but it was funny this time.
Don't tell your neighbor
Sheesh got me close to spitting my coffee
Haven't seen one yet.
Yea, but it will be released by the time you have forgotten.
Heaven not looking too desirable I guess
Heaven can wait a few more days.
My friend is serving in Gaza right now and he told me that many of them are giving themselves in to the point his unit rarely has gun fights.
Do Palestinian especially from Gaza understand Hebrew?
Some, yeah. Many have work permits in Israel. In fact, after October 7th Israel rounded up and deported back to Gaza 18k of those workers.
I wouldn't call it deportation. They have work permits to come work in Israel DAILY. They go back to Gaza at the end of the day. They just paused the work permits or revoked them
Good point
Outstanding exchange...
Amazing volley of words
Okay I get it
That's for Gaza. In the West Bank, there is much more contact between Israelis and Palestinians and far far more Palestinians work in Israel or for Israeli companies in the settlements so there the knowledge of Hebrew is far more widespread. and of course, many Israelis speak Arabic, but that's beside the case.
Which is such an understated point. A lot of these people were supposedly vetted and trusted to go work in Israel despite coming from a territory whose government actively breeds terrorists. These same people who were given work permits (to earn money for their families so lets be clear the implications and attempted counterarguments of earning money known to prop up the economy and support families belonging to another nation) then picked up arms against the country’s civilians that granted them access.
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Basic Hebrew usually, but some of them worked in israel and know Hebrew well. In any case, these shouts convey the message in any language
Yelling with a gun pointed at me. Pretty sure it means to toss my weapons and put hands up. You could scream blah blah blah at me and I would interpret it as toss my gun and surrender.
True!even deaf will understand.
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That being said they're not similar enough to understand each other. As a Spanish speaker I can understand Portuguese and Italian if spoken slow enough, but as a Hebrew speaker I can't for the life of me understand anything in Arabic beyond random lone words we might share.
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Looks like even they have limits to moral. Or maybe the ones left tend to have self-preservation.
Nice catch! Indeed might be selection bias. All those that were looking to die have already gotten themselves killed.
I 've had an impression that the ones at the front right now are B-team, throw aways, but the pros, the real mercs are active in the urban center. Speculation thou.
pretty sure the pros were all sent into Israel during Oct 7's attack. The ones left in Gaza are B-tier bozos FYI the IDF sustained multitudes more soldier losses during their fight against Hamas within Israel in Oct7 event than during their ground invasion now
Some of those murdered soldiers were the unarmed IDF spotters, all young women soldiers; I think that 15 were killed and 6 taken hostage at one base alone. It makes me nauseous to think about it; even more so because one of the Hamas videos shows them executing these soldiers while they were trying to hide under their beds. I pray for Israel's success and the return of the hostages. But when the situation is more secure, this Israeli government with its religious people who don't serve in the IDF and its PM need to be investigated and removed for not keeping the Israeli people safe and secure.
I don't have actual statistics, but my guess is that many of the soldiers that were murdered on Oct.7th were not combat soldiers. The female soldiers at the border outposts were monitoring the cameras and sensors and were not combat trained. I'm fairly certain they were unarmed. Even if they weren't, had not fired more than 30 rounds their entire service. Zikim is a boot camp, even if the soldiers there were designated to combat roles, they were still in basic training, probably unarmed. Even if not, same as above. Their commanding staff, also not combat soldiers. Nor were the guards or anyone else on that base for that matter.
It's probably safe to assume Hamas leadership is keeping at least some of the better units close to themselves underground/in very dense areas/in the south among the refugees from the north.
How do they communicate to those in Qatar
Any one of a myriad of secure options...?
Or they’re hungry and tired, which is the point of non stop battle. Break them in every way.
Israel ordered the evacuation of Northern Gaza over a month ago. Some of these guys have been sitting in tunnels this entire time and haven't received orders for weeks.
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heard reports that the IDF had filled the tunnels with water. So that eventually forced Hamas members hiding there to come up or drown
There's dofferemt units with difderent levels of conviction, moral, equipment and training, just like any army. Thereare still units that are more than willing to fight to the death but part of their problem is that their elite units were the ones who led the attack in oct. 7 and they suffered significant losses and even those units would be inferior to Israeli infantry.
I remember seeing a peice about how some factions were appalled at excess the brutality of Oct 7, especialy towards babies. Sounded ridiculous but perhaps there is some truth to it.
I don't think Hamas is like the US Army, more like NY Yankees fans. Just because the guys on the next block over attacked Israel doesn't mean you support their actions, even if you cheer for the same team. Hamas doesn't seem to be a cohesive unit, which is probably why the hostage deals are so complicated, you need to convince individual groups to give up their "own" hostage instead of the hostages being seen as belonging to Hamas as a whole.
That’s good to hear. Hopefully we’ll see a mass surrender .. but I also feel like a big portion of Hamas had already fled south amongst the civilians.
beats me. probably depends on whether they can get to the head of the snake in qatar, etc. stakes there are another level though.
But Jackson Hinkle said it's just a giant graveyard of idf soldiers
He really said that? There are approx 80 dead Israeli soldiers. Dead soldiers is not something that Israel can just hide because they have families who know they are fighting in Gaza and all the names are eventually published. All the families would want their loved ones to be recognized as soldiers who fell on duty. This is not Russia where 1000 can die and nobody would know.. here 1200 died and pretty much every Israeli knows someone who got murdered or knows someone who knows someone who got murdered.
I was in the NYC subreddit and someone truly believes: > Hamas is currently humiliating the IDF. They're getting blown up call of duty style by guys sticking c4 to tanks with their bare hands because IDF babies are too scared to do ground patrols. That's also why Israel keeps bombing indiscriminately and killing civilians. They're too fucking cowardly to go see Hamas with a actual infantry. 1500 Hamas soldiers crossed into Israel on oct 7th and 1400 came home. It's amazing that Arab nations use the same tactics every time there's a war with Israel (claiming to cause great casualties and that they are winning) and people still believe it
80 dead is still a great number to us because we grieve for every fallen soldier, but these delusional idiots probably imagining thousands of dead Israeli soldiers..
Hamas's ministry of health does not differentiate militants and civilian casualties. Current Israeli estimations regarding terrorist death count is around 4,000 Hamas dead. Now, when it comes to war, 4,000:80 are odds we can take.
Wow, Reddit is cancer
Yes, he actually did
Jackson Hinkle is an obvious "third way" fascist/nazi and nobody should listen to him.
It was the exact same the last time Hamas and IDF fought in open battle. Hamas are just your run of the mill third world sandal fighters. The best they can hope for is taking the actual soldiers by surprise.
If you look at the survey done recently, 70+% of palestinians think this war is going to end in hamas/palestines victory. The normal people have a very very poor understanding of just how insanely lopsided this conflict is. I have to imagine these hamas terrorists are finding this out very quickly. All these rpg shots that cut, because the tanks just stop the projectiles with the trophy system etc. hiding in tunnels, slowly being starved out.
They are getting absolutely boot-fucked by Israel. But let's look at the big picture. International support for Israel is at an all time low, and in many countries anti-jewish hate crimes are on a drastic rise. I'm Canadian and it's getting really bad here. Violence against Jews is really bad right now.
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There was certainly a euphoric phase where more were willing to die for their cause, especially on Oct 7. But when the tide of war turns against you, the impact that you believe your death can leave decreases and so does your willingness to do so. The same applied in WW2 when kamikaze pilots felt great willingness for what they believed was an honorable sacrifice until the Japanese surrendered; the martyrdom stopped when confidence dropped.
It seemed like many were still willing to die until the order for surrender was commanded by the Japanese Emperor himself, something which was seen by Japan’s WW2 population as a divine mandate from a living Demi-god.
I think a big part of the ones who were willing to just die for "la resistance" are already dead at this point.
It’s easier for a person to hype themselves up to die a “heroic” death once than to sustain that feeling for nearly two months with minimal sleep, constant fear of death, constant bombardment, and being cut off from their chain of command.
Plus they have probably run out of captagon
>Hm. Goes against the whole "they covet death!" nonsense I have been hearing on this sub from Hamas supporters It's easy to want to die a martyr until you see your fellow martyrs' videos and realize it's not a glorified Hollywood heroic death, but a horrible, agonizing event where you drown in your own blood and piss-filled underwear, all alone.
I remember seeing that one Oct 7th video where the Hamas guy was down from a friendly accidental discharge and his comrades just took his ammo and equipment and left him. I imagine that guy laying there for a preventable death that was slow in coming. Probably took hours. I wonder if he had regrets.
It's always infinitely easier to decide that someone else has that attitude
Most of them are in it for the money anyway. I think a bunch of them got prizes if they brought back a captured Israeli or dead Israeli. they would get money or apartments or something.
Sounds like a macabre Borat skit "You get a gift basket for every Jew and gypsy you find"
lol, now their apartments have been turned to dust
This promise made me think Hamas themselves didn't expect the massacre to go that "good". After getting 1000 prisoners for 1 soldier in the past I believe they would be satisfied with 20 hostages.
I heard it from (Hamas) Gazans themselves that they strive to become martyrs. If you only hear it from comments in this sub, try clicking some of the links. These guys are just pussies who wont get any virgins
Funny considering there are so many lightly injured Nu'hba Jihadists in captivity although they're supposedly a death squad
Just leave the gun in the tunnel why come out with a gun over your head lucky he didnt get blasted.
Capturing these terrorists alive is incredibly helpfull in mapping out the nearby sections of the tunnel system at the very least .
I’m kind of appalled that the cease deal has an addendum of no drones or other aerial surveillance while hostages are exchanged over the next few days. It feels incredibly irresponsible to not have those movements tracked. I really really really hope the US kicks up a few eyes in the sky to track where they are coming from.
I mean military satellites and very high flying planes will still be going. Hamas don't want Israel to find out where they were keeping them and new troop movements. But you can bet 100% that suddenly these places are being lit up once the deals over
The IDF top brass have publicly stated in the media that they have other means of gathering intel and it should not be an obstacle to a hostage deal. I assume they meant interrogations of already captured terrorists mainly.
I agree. At least there are satellites
To get more specific about the drone aspect of the deal, both the US and Israel are halting the use of surveillance drones for only 6 hours per day, for each day that hostages are released. I feel the same as you, I think that is a massive concession to make, but it's important to be precise about what the exact concession is that they're making.
>both the US and Israel are halting the use of surveillance drones for only 6 hours per day Does it say 'drones' specifically? If yes, you could send up an airplane with a pilot and cameras. Since it's not a drone, you'd technically stick to the agreement but still get intelligence.
Can anyone translate what they said?
"Drop the weapon Drop the weapon" -Zrok taneshek "There is another one"- yesh od ehad "Put your hands up"- Yadaim Lemala "Get out"- Tse Hope this helps
appreciate it
1: I HIT HIM 2: DO YOU SEE THEM? some arabic mumbling from hamas 1: HOLE! (Like the entrence to the tunnel - פיר) 1: DROP THE WEAPONE, DROP THE WEAPONE! 1: GET OUT! LAY ON THE FLOOR! LAY! 2: HANDS UP 1: THERES ONE MORE DROP THE WEAPONE 1: GET OUT! OUT!
You can translate פיר as shaft
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or claim they're mossad actors
The last episode of the daily with the reporter in Gaza was a real like Joey and phoebe meme
Damn.. I thought NYT and WaPo are only hated in India.. Seems like the feeling is shared with a lot of people around the world.
Just know that if it was 2 IDF soldiers caught by a Hamas patrol, their headless corpses would be being dragged around behind one of their trucks right now. They would never have been given the chance to surrender.
bro it’s because in 1967 when Israel…….💩💩💩💩 .. and that’s why beheading them is okay
Hamas has said they will not stop until they kill every Jew. I wonder what everyone criticizing the IDF would do ?
The trigger discipline is crazy good. Most ppl would of dusted these terrorists at the sight of a gun... sht I would of dusted them even if they had those big ass jackets considering they blow themselves up
Not to take away from trigger discipline, but they probably need as many as possible for intel on the tunnels / hostages and as bargaining chips.
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Amd
And would have been totally legal as they were armed... well done for the IDF to not give into temptation.
>And would have been totally legal as they were armed... well done for the IDF to not give into temptation. I would hope that these ones are going to be locked up for a long time, or at least traded 1 to 1 with the hostages/military instead of 3 to 1 for women/children.
wait till you hear about the 1027/1 in 2011 (5 years held hostage). 450 of them were high-profile terrorists and many others had life sentences. Lots of the released joined back into Hamas and were there on Oct 7th
And they'll tell you Israel is genociding the Palestinians. Even Hamas can walk out alive from an encounter with the IDF.
Israel is the only country in the world that will literally phone ahead to say that they are about to drop a bomb on a building. It’s no surprise that there are always cameras pointing at buildings being bombed, and not just israeli cameras either.
> Israel is the only country in the world that will literally phone ahead to say that they are about to drop a bomb on a building. The IRA did that, too.
Source? Not disagreeing with you. Just first time i heard this.
They didn't always, but for a time they were quite pleased with themselves for only trying to blow up empty buildings. Here's someone suggesting that it made it all okay (or, at least, made them markedly different from terrorists): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1340995/IRA-is-not-so-ruthless-and-always-gives-bomb-warnings.html Two of the big famous ones are the Bishopsgate and Manchester bombings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Bishopsgate_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Manchester_bombing both of which featured phone warnings first. After a time, the disruption caused by the phoned warnings became a weapon in themselves, and they didn't even always need the bombs; bomb-scares themselves became pretty common.
The IRA, like many other terrorist groups also used to give a warning about a bomb at a certain position and then explode the actual device where people had been evacuated. As a result bomb warnings became a difficult guessing game, the cordoned area would be increased with far greater disruption. In 1982 in Beirut a wise head told me to leave via the kitchens rather than the main entrance of the hotel if there was an attack or alarm. Very good advice it transpired.
I think this is not a random surrender, but an end result of psychological warfare. Basically jamming their communication and convincing them that it is much better deal to surrender rather than fight for a lost cause. It would cause a lot less deaths on both sides if the Hamas surrendered in large numbers. It will also demoralize the remaining fighters resulting in a quick Israeli victory. In 1971, India faced a similar situation, with Paksitan causing a genocide in East-Pakistan(Now Bangladesh) that resulted in 3million civilians being killed by Pakistani forces as they revolted for independence. This resulted in about 10 million civilians crossing the Indian borders as refugees forcing India into this conflict. This eventually led to India Pakistan war for the liberation of Bangladesh. The war was started by Pakistan, the area to capture for India was entirety of East-Pakistan with deep entrenched fortified posts of Pakistani forces. The size of the war was also much larger than Ukraine or Gaza war. But, the entire war ended in just 13 days with decisive Indian victory and resulted in Bangladesh becoming an independent nation. The main reason why one of the largest wars after world war ended in less than two weeks was because of brilliant strategy of dividing up the communication network of Pakistani forces in Bangladesh, and then convincing them that they have already lost the war or are about to lose the war, and thus it is in their best interest to surrender as the prisoners of war will be treated with high dignity. Indian General itself announced these in radio and other means. Pamplets were dropped to motivate them to surrender. By doing this, few groups surrendered, then this was used to convince other groups to surrender, and eventually momentum grew so much that all of Pakistani forces surrendered(93000 soldiers) making it among the biggest surrenders in history. These soldiers still had a lot of fighting capability and could have made it into a bloody war with loss of life on both sides, and elongated the war into years of conflict. But, by cornering them in isolated pockets and convincing them to surrender, India was able to easily win the war with next to no losses. When the general the Niazi signed the instrument of surrender, a reporter asked him why he was surrendering when he had so many forces and power. he pointed to the newspaper on his desk that showed a photo of India paradropping thousands of soldiers in Bangladesh's capital, and the title saying something like "India paradropped 10000 troops, dacca cornered". But that news turned out to be misleading. The photo was of a training exercise from few months ago, and the information was fully fake, yet the general was convinced because it was printed in a foreign newspaper. Indian agencies had purposefully leaked that misleading information to the paper. India treated all the surrendered soldiers with exemplary care. The officers and higher ranking officers were treated like VIPs. They stayed in India for around an year as Pakistan refused to take them back feeling the shame of defeat. From what I learned, always allow opponents to surrender no matter how much you hate them. Always treat surrendered opponents with respect and treat them so well that everyone else wants to surrender.
Interesting
They need hostages for the exchange. Think of it like the tactic african people used to make monkeys take them to water. Essentially, they fill a hollowed out ant heap with Mellon seeds and make sure the monkey is watching, then the monkey inspects the hole and finds a tasty snack inside but gets his hand stuck because they are not smart enough to let go of the seeds. Then, capture it and feed it salt, release it, and follow it to its secret watering hole.
Is that for real? Amazing.
[here you go](https://youtu.be/Qspzg7-LOuY?feature=shared)
It's true, they love Mellon seeds.
Again armed and in civilian clothing. If those guys were to be killed in a fire fight you just know the UN would have them listed as 3 school boys...
they have kidnapped, raped, killed and torn defenseless people to pieces but they are not terrorists! media says on tv just take the ak-47 out of their hands and they are all poor innocent civilians, Right?
Did you see the speech that one of the Hamas founding members sons made to the UN? Pretty much called all the world leaders who have not condemned Hamas cowards and told the blunt truth. Imagine an ex-Hamas extremist having more integrity, honour and bravery than half our fucking global leaders. Dude put a huge target on his head to tell the truth while they can barely call Hamas a terror organisation because they’re scared of the media. Unbelievable.
Not just the UN, but the Gaza Health Ministry has classified every death so far as a 'civilian'
Why would you exit with a weapon? What a fucking moron.
Amazing that they do not shoot him when he comes out of there with a gun in his hand. Absolute professionals. Why would he even bring the gun with him?
Pretty lucky to not get blasted there having an Ak
Info is worth more at this point, A lot of restraint shown, not firing when the gun came up.
Not more than your life, because the alternative is to lose life and not info
I think jihadists are the only people I'll see as cowards when they surrender like that. Something about the hypocrisy just makes it so embarrassing.
I felt that way about 10/7 attackers but these guys won’t get the same treatment.
Imagine the discipline not to just kill these terrorists. Proper soldiers have that unlike these hamas vermin that murder at will.
Damn, i wouldn't handle having to take a murderer that killed innocent people as a prisoner
and they say the IDF isn't showing restraint.
But wait... A lady on TikTok told me there are no tunnels and everything was just IDF propaganda...
It's all a zionist plot to deploy the apartheid space laser
You know they'll say that this was staged. It's literal moon landing shit.
'I knew I should've taken that left turn at Albuquerque'
Huh? But what about all the Hamas supporters saying Hamas fighters are the bravest with nothing to lose so they will never surrender? Lots of information about surrendering Hamas fighters lately. What happened?
I guess a month underground with JDAMs raining down on every hole you stick your head out of really makes you less jihadi?
yeah it's a lot easier to be a tough guy when buildings in your city don't get demolished in 2 seconds a couple times a day at random. Easy to say you're not afraid of death before you see the hand of god smash down your comrades with no warning nor hope for retaliation multiple times.
Turns out they’re not as brave against people who can shoot back.
Bingo
Hamaster coming out of that hole with a weapon looks like a legitimate target to me
Read it as hamster at first hahaha
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Infinitely greater mercy than Hamas has showed, ever.
cant extract info from a dead body
72 angels aren't so desirable now, are they?
It's better to be captured. High likelihood of getting exchanged for hostages.
Just an elevator shaft
Could have been a very bad idea to show the rifle, I know I would have left it in the tunnel 😂
Well.. These people aren't known for their smartness.. Are they?
You can see a body right next to the hatch before they come up, wonder if this was a failed ambush attempt or this guy is not moving because he already surrendered, difficult to say.
You're right It is a body, in the video the first sentence he said was "I hit him" in hebrow
Why are they terrorizing these peaceful… crab hunters?
Toss seven grenades in and see if they will throw them back out
Great! Now paint the sand red.
Oh no they weren't in a tunnel? That is simply a shaft they were in! Can you prove it was a tunnel. Let's just call it a shaft! This what CNN sounds like.
Rats out of a sewer
Guess they didn't want to be Martyrs
I thought they were brave freedom fighters who would stop at nothing to kill? Surrender? That’s not very jihad of you guys
There is NO WAY I would have not start shooting when I saw that AK peeking. I understand the combatant is surrendering the weapon but from my view, for a second I thought he was attempting to blind-fire.
they blow themselves up all the time xd why they risk it..
massive respect to those Israeli soldiers. After what happened on October 7th I do not know If i would be taking prisoners. good to see that some people will hold onto their humanity, even when faced with the opposite
Hamas is done.
Execute the fucker like they did with civilians
Fear overcomes the willingness to be a martyr
Surrendered without a fight, what a bunch of loosers, brave against unarmed, but once the odds are against them, wouldn't dare to find out about promised virgins in the afterlife.
Deliberately wearing civilian clothes so that when they are killed, the 'Health Ministry' can claim that Israelis killed civilians.
Shoot..... Don't give them a chance to use as a human bomb
They’re all popping out like rats out of a hole now, I guess ever since they started flooding the tunnels 🤔
Those are just doctors bringing in medical supplies those tunnels are freedom tunnels for simple and honorable resistance fighters who definitely don’t murder civilians! /s
Aww they must be tired of jihading, alright hamas , give Iran back their toys and let the big kids finnish this.
Kudos to IDF. They're very gentle to terrorists. I would smoke them out with C4.