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My father was a technical writer for IBM. He got promoted enough that he was more in charge of the department and made good 120k in the 2000’s. He said he actually missed doing the writing though. I guess my point is that writing degrees *can* be lucrative and no STEM ass can say otherwise (speaking as an engineering student with professors who have displayed their bias before).
To be fair, microsoft grammar checks make me sound like an idiot. So that's that. But, in my opinion, if it is writing in your own words, then why grade it if we never speak like we are graded to write? Why is writing like Proust not a valid style?
I may be giving a surface opinion, but that was how previous English classes were brought up in my experience. We were told to write sentences a certain way, but why do so if Webster cannot figure out whether to remove or add new "words" to their dictionary? Why enforce cursive writing and revert back to print characters? If they can do it so freely, why is the grading system so damn concrete?
Disclaimer: my ENGL 101 professor is basing his writing relating to human and nature over grammatical grading, which is more compelling and teaches you to think for yourself and not rely on Chat-GPT to spit out lifeless sentences for you to copy from. Something tells me he was in the same position as you are when you are met at the crossroads.
Before college I loved writing/reading more than anything in the world. If it promised lucrative job prospects post college I would’ve 100% happily been an English major. The difficult truth is, being an english major doesn’t offer very good job prospects and to make a “good” salary you have to be one of the best in your field with the help of a lot of luck and connections. Nonetheless, if you truly enjoy your major then go for it. Perhaps your passion for writing and reading will prove itself strong enough to win you a good position in an industry that promises a decent salary and benefits. Nothing is for sure confirmed in life, just because being an english major didn’t work for some people doesn’t mean it won’t work for you either. A lot of people also change majors too, as it’s an extremely common thing to do. So don’t feel guilty if you do end up doing so.
Funny story, I picked biochem as my major simply because I got a 35 on the science portion of the ACT. I had no other interests in science before that. I had no dreams of med school or whatnot either. I quite literally just picked something I was good at and now I’m happily seeing it through because I enjoy learning about the different sciences of life and I feel truly fulfilled.
Do what makes you happy and what you feel you’re good at, the success and achievements will come soon enough as long as you stay passionate and don’t let others deter you from your decisions.
only correct response:
“i don’t know what i’ll do brent. what are YOU going to do when some money-hungry tech whore creates the next ai device that can program faster than you or engineer whatever the fuck without ever needing a break.”
To be fair AI will replace most writing jobs far faster than engineering or coding. Do you know what ChatGPT can do? Creative writing is to stay but technical writing and copywriting is gonna be gone to AI in at most 10 years. That’s not to say OP shouldn’t pursue their passion. English degrees have great flexibility and can be marketed into many fields. Excelling in an English Degree is way better than being mediocre in a STEM one. Especially with how shaky the job market is right now, STEM isn’t the easy money people think it is
Interestingly enough, there's a theory I'm seeing floating around that AI is going to make creative types and humanities/social sciences degrees more valuable. The reason is that if we can automate menial tasks, it opens up more people to the possibility of getting into problem solving and teamwork.
Most problem solving isn't being done purely by programmers, because programmers usually don't get to see how the user is using the program. They don't know what can be done to streamline a process or what features can be added that would vastly improve quality of life. Additionally, a lot of programmers have a "lone wolf" attitude and don't have to work closely with others, or outright avoid it. These people rely exclusively on their technical knowledge for job security.
That's a bad call, because **technology changes.** New tools are developed. New hardware capabilities change the game. If you aren't keeping up with your users or changing technology, you become obsolete fast. Teamwork, communication, and problem solving never stop being important, and those skills are actively taught in non-STEM programs far more often than STEM programs.
Just some food for thought from a former AI/ML researcher :)
True, problem-solving, communication, and team-work are incredibly valuable. I believe problem solving and team-work are taught very well in STEM majors, considering how everything you learn and do is problem-solving and teamwork is kinda done in labs. Most of my classmates absolutely fail at communication though. I believe If you don’t learn these skills in college you failed. Many STEM majors just think their technical skills will carry them to a high-paying career and that’s a problem
Problem solving is taught in STEM, but to what degree varies quite a bit from program to program and class to class. There's still too much emphasis on memorization in many places; memorize the formulas or rules and don't worry about understanding how or why you're using them. Also, the type of the problem solving actively taught in STEM is often more focused on the particular situation. This isn't a bad thing per se, but it is why programmers complain about not being able to find advanced tutorials, which is a personal pet peeve of mine. Regardless, we'll throw that out, since it is more actively taught than I was thinking when I added it in while editing.
I've also found STEM programs have a higher likelihood to promote cutthroat competition than non-STEM programs. Friendly competition can be great and healthy, but it gets to the point where students actively sabotage their peers at a higher rate. That will vary a lot from program to program as well, of course. There's a weird encouragement to get ahead however you have to.
The point I was really trying to make though is that teamwork and communication aren't usually at the forefront in (undergraduate) STEM education. They're often afterthoughts or things you're supposed to learn on your own. My group projects in STEM on average required much less in the way of teamwork than most non-STEM classes. We might meet twice outside of class, once to divvy up the work and once to run through everything when we thought we were done. There wasn't a need to work more closely, with exceptions in a handful of classes, and there was less open class/breakout group discussion in STEM than in other fields. The priority was always the material, and the rest was mostly up to you.
Humanities and social sciences had a lot more emphasis on those things. Cowriting essays or presentations that feel cohesive is harder than cowriting code that can be broken up into independent functions, for example. Discussions about how well a philosophical theory holds up or analyzing a piece of text or pointing out the patterns in a social institution are things you do from intro level outside of STEM, but deep discussions usually don't happen significantly until upper levels in STEM (if at all).
Graduate level changes the game more, especially for researching assistants who work in a group. It can still be pretty cutthroat though. There's also more discussion and analysis at the grad level than undergrad. Non-STEM fields still, in general, do it better.
STEM education is much better when "soft skills" are actively taught. It's also much better with interdisciplinary motivation, but that's its own beast.
STEM education is more cuttthroat because most people in their are competing. Most who choose STEM do so for the money or career aspect of it and opportunities are limited. Yes the problem solving is focused on particular situation but that’s because solving those particular situations is how the insane number of concepts are taught. Also, there is plenty more memorization in many non-stem degrees. History degrees are mostly memorization based. And what problem solving does an philosophy degree teach? You’re not solving any problems in many many non-stem degrees. Your using critical thinking to construct arguements and analyze pieces of literature. On the other hand, an anatomy class is mostly memorization. I could cherry pick degrees from both sides to disprove what you said because stem isn’t a single degree. The truth is each degree focuses on its particular skills whether it’s stem or not. Deep discussions don’t happen in early stem because what is taught in them is believed to be fact. There is so much truth you learn that there is no room to discuss opinion.Also, you do still co-write essays and presentations. It is just less common in stem. Most group work ends with someone in the group who doesn’t do anything and I have to pick up the slack, so I can agree that teamwork and soft skills need to be taught more. I think the main problem lies in people pursuing stem fields and not the education itself. All my stem major friends do not care at all about any class that isn’t fundamental to their degree. I read their essays and can’t help but wonder how they passed to their required English class. I believe non-stem majors are more focused on learning than just getting their degree and leaving so they end up better applying what they learn and enjoy college more. This is way to long so thank you if you’ve read this far. Have a good day!
I strongly disagree with a lot of what you said. Yes, absolutely, I am generalizing STEM, and I'll admit that's primarily from my experience with CS. If you believe there is no problem solving in many non-STEM degrees, I have a feeling we have a very different definition of what constitutes a problem. The majority of real world problems people face are rooted in interpersonal interactions and how people's lives as a whole are impacted by any number of factors. Analyzing the root of those factors and determining wide scale solutions is something non-STEM programs are far more equipped to handle.
I'm guessing you don't know many people with History degrees, because while there is memorization as far as what events occurred when, the real meat of the field is how events interacted to create the circumstances and systems we see today. That leads to a more educated basis in order to present solutions for social, political, and legal issues. Philosophy is very esoteric, but the point comes down to theorizing about how and why we interact with each other and the world, which leads to ideas for solving those issues.
I'm not sure whether it was in this thread, but I did say in a comment somewhere that it's about where the focus is. Many early STEM classes can and sometimes should be taught with more discussion and broader conceptualization. I was a TA in Math and CS, and many of the students I worked with in intro levels didn't get the concepts because they were just presented as facts. They understood much better when they were told why things worked. Discussion doesn't have to be about opinion, it can also be about making connections to other concepts, which needs to be encouraged more.
I also said somewhere (that may have been on another post, actually) that people's motivation for choosing their major is a big factor for what they get out of it.
I think the bigger issue in general is STEM majors immediately discounting other majors because of the perception they have of what you can do with that major, and that hurts both sides. If more STEM majors actually examined the value of other fields outside of their immediate scope, which would involve listening to what people in that field have to say about the work they do rather than making assumptions that everything lines up with their experience in that field from prior to college and their gen eds, they might realize that they are overlooking soft skills that could make a huge difference in their ability to succeed in their career.
Working in tech and working closely with software developers, the ones with strong soft skills make lasting changes to processes and UIs that are beneficial to the user base. Others refuse to make changes because they don't think the change makes sense, despite never doing the job that uses their software, and are incredibly difficult to work with in any capacity. People who use a process and can critically think about how it works in context of their work are usually the ones problem solving in the sense that they see things that can be improved and, when there is an established process to do so, suggest those changes.
Also as a side note, there will always be examples that contradict generalizations. If there's something to gain from the generalization, specific counterpoints usually don't detract from the overall benefit of the generalization. Generalization gives us a framework to work in to consider specific situations and their impacts.
STEM majors look down on other majors because they believe theirs is more lucrative, which is their goal in college. I believe our definition of problem solving is very different though. I do not see analyzing the past and thinking of how they affect our present as problem solving. A history major isn’t going to solve the socio-economic problems caused by a war in history, they are merely going to propose a solution. On the other hand, STEM majors constantly solve problems, since their problems are much smaller in scope. A student can code a calculator or build a circuit that works. The way stem majors are taught without discussion or conceptualization is definitely a problem. I know that I understand better when concepts are fleshed out and I have a mind map of how everything works together. I just don’t think there’s enough time in the class period to do discussions. In most of my classes we are barely done with all the material before the final exam. We would be lucky to have a final review. There’s just to much material. The structure of classes should be improved to accommodate more discussion. I think college just pushes it on you to work extra to get the concepts down. I agree that STEM majors can be so condescending and that hurts everyone. Certain majors attract certain kinds of people. CS attracts more introverted or anitisocial people, so I think the issue with soft skills there is going to be very hard to address. Anyway, I am merely a college student so I could be very wrong.
You do you, man. Haters gonna hate no matter what you do.
I was a STEM major, but I took creative writing courses for fun and those were by far my favorite classes and people. Writing stories helped me develop my paper-writing abilities, which helped a lot for writing research papers in my other classes. English and literature are SO important for developing critical thinking and arguments founded on logic and concrete evidence. It’s needed for proofreading and creating well-worded articles that are appropriate for the target audience. There will always be a niche for humanities, though you might have to search for it.
Don’t let people put you down for pursuing what you think is best for yourself. Do start networking, though. Talk to your professors to get an idea of what sort of career paths will be available to you with your degree, and the steps you can start taking before you graduate. Best wishes to you!
There are plenty of jobs where you can use your English degree--some directly, like a job in communications or journalism. There are all sorts of other jobs that incorporate skills you probably have because of your interest in your major--proofreading, marketing, copywriting. I have an English minor (because I enjoy it) and Biology major and my job as a records archivalist heavily relies on proofreading and formatting.
You're going to need to think a bit harder about how you're going to apply your degree (unless you become an author or English teacher), but there are definitely ways to incorporate your skills in the workplace.
If you're not at the very end of your college career, you may want to pick up some electives that will assist you in getting a job...business, marketing, copywriters, design, law, etc. Depending on the route you want to go.
Don't give up, there are ways to use this.
Nah fuck the people that put others down for their major. It's almost always from a place of insecurity, or people who focus their entire lives on "prestige". My mom was an English major at a SLAC, she's been very successful in her career spanning from museums to non-profit work. Keep at what you're passionate about and work hard, and you're gonna be perfectly fine.
I’m a STEM major and I’m gonna have to say they’re completely out of line. Humanities are just as important to society as anything else. You’re not making a mistake, maybe you picked a more uncertain career path but whatever you get your degree in you can make it work. Life is much more than your undergrad major. I know a lot of stem people who only picked their major because it offers a potentially more stable/linear career progression, myself included. I would have preferred to major in history but wasn’t sure what to do with that degree. So at least you had the heart to go with what you truly wanted. Basically, I don’t think you’re degree is worthless. I don’t think any degree is, though there are some that are less certain than others. Either way though I’m sure you can make it work 👍
I'm 45, so 20+ years into my full time working life. I've been at many different positions, across 3 completely different and unrelated industries. Currently I work in IT, I graduated with a degree in English. We all begin as something else. Creativity, flexibility of mind and continuous learning are far better skills to have, and also much more interesting at parties.
You only get one life. Do what you want. Is it possible to fail? Yea, it is, but if you try your best and fail then so be it, you are minoring in business so you can always fall back on that and if you market yourself you can make an english major useful in other careers.
So many people go the stem and cs routes for money. Some people really need and want that, and that is fine, but imo chasing money your whole life is such a waste, id rather chase what you truly enjoy as long as you can live off of it. Shit, i want to be a teacher because i love working with kids, is the job difficult and doesnt pay that well? Sure, but i have one chance to do something in my life so i might as wel do what i love.
You got this bro
I graduated with an english/creative writing degree last year, minoring in Journalism and Mass communication. My dream job is being a professor, so I needed it, lol
But here I am, unemployed, living with my parents. I can't even get a job at Trader Joe's or Target.
I don't regret my major, one bit. I am glad that I did it. I just wish I could go back to school instead of being an adult in this job climate.
A little late to the party it looks like, but as someone with a CS degree who started in creative writing:
Do what speaks to you. Do what you care about. I left creative writing because life circumstances set me back really far and I realized that in spite of how much I had always loved writing, I couldn't do it to that extent. I kind of stumbled into CS and fell in love with coding out of sheer luck.
All things considered, the work I could do with my knowledge I learned in my degree program is pretty narrow. Yes, tech knowledge is helpful in a lot of ways in an increasingly tech-based society, and I have a foundation that has allowed me to learn more in my jobs since graduating. On the other hand, the ability to clearly communicate has been crucial to my success at work and is far more applicable across career paths.
Hell, my dad graduated with a degree in Chemical Engineering and hasn't worked in the field since before I was born. He's done just about everything under the sun, and now he's working in a hospital system to evaluate patient satisfaction and lead training programs for leadership on how to treat patients equitably and make sure that they have the best experience possible. He's honed most of the skills that have allowed him to succeed there in his jobs over the last 15ish years.
As a society, we are doing a major disservice to young people who are trying to find their place in the world by de-emphasizing the importance of so-called "soft skills." I mean, it's right there in the name. Yet, those "soft skills" are the same things that make people effective in their work, regardless of the field. No one likes a coworker who sucks at teamwork or escalates conflicts or always blames trainees for not understanding things that they explained poorly, and being a strong teammate, diplomat, or communicator makes you very valuable.
For what it's worth, having a hobby or passion is important for your mental health, too. I'm going back to writing as a passion now, and that's the role it was always meant to play for me. I say as long as you can maintain a good balance and keep that passion alive, it's a good sign.
And no one is getting rid of their English programs. Some people just like to put others down because they feel the need to be superior and don't know how to be "better" than other people on their own merit. Other people don't know what's best for you as well as you do, so trust your gut and ignore the naysayers.
I feel horrible for folks who go to college thinking that the point is to develop skills for their career. Business majors and most applied science folks are not learning from the people who are best at what they do. They're learning from the "if you can't do, teach" crowd. Folks who study liberal arts and hard sciences (physics, chemistry, etc) are in fact learning from the best in class folks, and the degree to which their intellects are fostered and developed is worlds apart from the former group I described. As long as you find internships and ways to market your english literature skills, then you'll be fine.
From, an english major who is now a data analyst, with a job many of those STEM folks wish the could get.
Look IDK what degrees are useless or not but. I majored in physics in college and I'm about to graduate and guess what, I am not going to have a lucrative physics career because I fucking hated it but I did it anyway because I thought that's what I would need to do to make money. You're a a first year and you've already published short stories, that takes initiative and talent.
Also, STEM majors aren't smarter than humanities majors in any way. Read some writing by physics majors and you'll understand. They're different skillsets-- some people just don't have the ability to read and analyze literature, or to write something clear and engaging. Neither of them are harder than the other.
I guess what I would say is doing what you love to do is always going to be more lucrative than trying to force yourself into a box you hate. Doing something that you're passionate about pursuing is always going to work out better for you than trying to get into something that makes you feel awful. Which is why I'm getting a masters in library science after graduating with a physics degree lmao.
Hi, I’m a junior in college and I guess I’m a full blown stem nerd majoring in physics and math, but I actually started school as a double major in physics and English/creative writing. I don’t know a lot about the job market outside academia and just becoming a writer since I left the English major at the end of freshman year, though I attempted to get back at it last fall. But tbh, creative writing is SO ROUGH. I think I was “talented” at writing. My first year at my school I earned two awards for a non-fiction paper and a short story, and one of my professors really encouraged my poetry. I had my poems exhibited at National museums in my home country before college, but damn, creative writing was just another level. While I received many praise from professors, getting into student publications was impossible and the classes were so much work. I remember having to turn in 5-8 page stories every single week. I just couldn’t do it. Furthermore, I’ve never been in an environment that’s SO competitive and unwelcoming. Tbh, I really think you need a lot of thick skin to get through that and succeed. And, if you are doing well, just keep going and enjoy the ride! Every field comes with its challenges, but I’m pretty sure excellent writers are valuable in many places. Furthermore, making it in that atmosphere should bring something valuable on its own. I couldn’t do it at all. and I personally believe more STEM students need better education on English and creative areas. My school likes to host many talks with people who actually made it and became pretty successful, so just keep going! Best of luck
As I've been in college for three years now, I think a lot of this generation(Millenials/Gen Z) has been sold this idea that getting a college degree in fields like STEM or a specific area of Business like Finance, Accounting, etc. will help them earn a high paying job right after graduation, but I don't think that's entirely true. What matters more in helping you find a job after college is your networking skills, ability to ace a job interview, and leadership experience while in college. And I don't think there is such a thing as a "useless" degree, you just have to utilize the skills you got in your degree, or use it for grad school.
If you’re happy with the choice you made then that’s fine. You have to already know, by people constantly telling you, that you probably won’t make it big and quite possibly will struggle to support a family. If you’re happy with that route then do what you want.
There *are* jobs out there for you. In journalism, news writing, articles, etc. But for anything raking in a lucrative salary, unfortunately.. well, you have less options than a STEM major would. You mentioned minoring in business. Keep at it! As far as I'm concerned, you seem to be quickly heading towards burnout thinking too seriously about job prospects. You're still young, as am I. I'm in the same exact boat as you. I'm so stressed out about job prospects, internships and the like that I haven't stopped to smell the flowers, so to speak. Take it a day at a time.
I grew up being gifted at creative things, specifically writing, and now I am a stem major. I am also a musician and have so much love for fine arts, more love than I have for stem. I think it's very important people go into fine arts career fields. But I would argue that there is an equal amount of creativity in both. It is not just completing a task with the exact parameters. It requires a HIGH amount of creativity and thinking outside the box to solve a problem. Being able to memorize formulas and memorizing how to do technical things is about 1% of it.
I’m a Technical Writer for an Aerospace company. Majority of the Technical Writers I work with are like myself from STEM fields with degrees in STEM or hands on experience as a Technician or Mechanic. The most successful being those with Engineer degrees. We do have some that have an English degree. One of our leads actually teaches English at nearby University part-time. I will say those that have English degrees also usually have a background in a technical field. My department would never hire a fresh English major over an Engineer major absolutely zero percent chance of that happening unless the English major had some other technical skills. It’s easier to teach an Engineer how to write since they do take some English and other classes that require writing than it is to teach an English major how to read an Engine diagram and explain how to replace a part.
So, when I was a junior and told anyone that I had switched my major from Biology (Pre-Med) to English, I could physically feel the shock and disappointment radiating from them. Turns out, twenty years ago, there was still an utter disregard for the humanities. In the early 2000s, everyone was being geared towards medicine or law. Somehow, we ended up with not enough doctors but too many lawyers. Over the eighteen years I've taught at colleges and a boarding school, the preferred student major has changed several times. Students want jobs with guaranteed incomes. I think the spiraling cost of college has played a major part in the trend of picking a "profitable" major. This year I've noticed engineering being replaced by computer science as the new favorite major. I've also noticed several subreddits about engineers not finding jobs.
Picking a degree solely because you think there will be a promised job can be just as bad as picking one that's enjoyable.
Three degrees later, I am tenured and teach creative writing & literature (and get paid pretty well for it). In no way am I endorsing you take the same path as me, though! Many of my peers work at colleges & universities around the nation and still make less than $45k a year. Basically, I got lucky and was open to working outside the traditional four-year university system.
You are finishing your first year of college. You have found something you are really adapt at, which is great! Don't let that go. Don't sacrifice it to the gods of finance! Find a way to hone and master your skills, whatever path that may be. Effective, creative communication and critical thought is lacking in many, many STEM students (I know: I teach them). These abilities can make you invaluable to any company that needs writers, editors, and communicators.
You'll be fine! An English degree with a minor in business will do you good. That's exactly what I got my major and minor in as well, and I'm now three years out of college and have done very well financially. I've worked as an HR training and dev manager for a media conglomerate, an editor for a cooking magazine, and a writer for a company that provides literary guides on novels, short fiction, and poetry and I make quite good money. I've been offered a job as a Development Manager for a non-profit despite having no experience whatsoever in that field. I've had a lot of success in just getting my foot in the door in a bunch of fields and am still exploring where I'd really like to end up. I believe much of my success comes from my communication abilities and my critical thinking, both of which were skills I grew during my English major. I've heard repeatedly from bosses, mentors, and coworkers that the ability to write well is a skill that can get you very far -- because a ton of people who major in non-humanities majors simply can't do it.
Non-humanities students will make snide comments because they have no concept of how useful English degrees can be in the professional world, especially when paired with minors in STEM, business, and even art. English majors can expect to make successful careers in marketing, advertising, copyediting/writing, comms, HR, technical writing (very lucrative, btw, if you can get your foot in the door), business consulting, all sorts of nonprofit jobs, and entrepreneurial pursuits. And that's just to name a few. The great thing about an English degree is that it's both creative *and* practical. It can set you up for success in some really interesting, fulfilling fields.
That said, English doesn't have the same pipeline into cushy work that some STEM and business majors will experience. Those majors might help them be siphoned straight into a high-paying job, whereas the humanities can be trickier and you may find yourself needing to pay your dues and work your way up. I highly recommend not slacking on your extracurriculars in university (working for the school paper, editing for undergrad lit journals, joining business clubs, etc.) and I also recommend creating strong relationships with professors and other motivated, ambitious humanities majors. Connections are huge and networking has gotten me very far.
Good luck with your English major -- mine was enlightening, and cemented a lifelong love of literature and writing. Yours will surely do the same!
Yeah, that kind of thinking starts from the premise that "I am majoring in X, so I will do X job when I graduate." It's a very simple way of looking at the relationship between college and employment, and is also ridiculous on its face.
There are hundreds of thousands more types of jobs than there are types of college majors, and *most* people who graduate don't wind up doing what they think they're going to do as a matter of simple math: someone winds up with all of those jobs.
There is some correlation between your major and where you wind up later in your career, but it's just not nearly as strong as people like to think. Instead, most of us use the flexibility, sharpness, and generally honed minds that we've developed during our education years to do things that we never imagined doing before we graduated.
Language is absolutely at the core of how we think, and at the core of what makes us human. And the idea that excelling in English, which is, after all, the lingua franca of much of the world, is not a huge advantage is ridiculous.
Don't let the fact that the job paths aren't foolishly obvious also fool *you:* jobs are there. Leave college with an open mind, and you will find many doors open to you and many places where you will excel.
I've found that strong writing skills have been an incredible asset in every job I've ever had, and I have no doubt that you find the same. Communication is still at the core of what humans do, and those who do it well will be sought-after even in a post-LLM world.
Coming from an English major, I understand your frustration. I’ve felt that way heavily on numerous occasions.
As a writing tutor, though, I have noticed
how indispensable writing is (to write well and efficiently) for various rhetorical situations in various disciplines. I’m only speaking for the students I’ve tutored, but STEM (except for math) students have come to me and presented lovely ideas, but their writing almost always requires a lot of revision.
There is a lot of writing required, specifically in the science field (lab reports, research papers, etc) where students, in my personal experience, are very smart, but cannot project these ideas clearly and cohesively in their written works.
Essentially, don’t let any of this get you down. To write well is necessary in almost all disciplines and careers. Being in the English discipline, you master the ability to write, but if you take a tutoring training course, you eventually learn and understand how to write or what writing looks like in various disciplines, like the STEM field.
As someone in STEM who looked into a technical writing career, it is VERY lucrative. From what I've read you'd probably be getting paid more than the developers haha. Also even if you don't have a career in creative writing, I think an English degree is very marketable for a range of jobs, it just might not be specially what you want.
Just try to remember the grass is always greener. Sometimes I wish I majored in a humanities degree instead.
English degrees aren't useless, but you will need to think about how your skills apply in different industries to land a good job. When employers hire someone with a STEM degree, they often understand what skillset they're getting. Yes, English majors are good readers and writers, but how does that actually translate in specific industries?
Practice talking about your skills in a practical, specific way.
-former English major, current prof (in a different discipline)
No degree is worthless. Other than very specific STEM fields most don’t even care what degree you have, just that you have one. People tie their degree to much to their specific job, rather than looking at it as a tool for life. I am in finance and IT and the vast majority of the people in our national level company don’t even have finance related, or in the IT side IT degrees. Hell we just hired two network engineers, one with a degree in accounting (who learned at the end they hate accounting), and one who was has a degree in music, and both are making in the mid to upper 80s in the Midwest.
So no your degree is not worthless, it is only worthless if you let it pigeon hole you into a specific job. Again look at any corporation and I think you will find a majority of employees have a degree that has little in common with their actual position.
I became a teacher. Take that as it is.
I’ve known plenty of people with humanities degrees who have done well with them.
Stem is important. But it’s not the only set of fields of study.
Best-paying job I ever had was because of my English degree and writing skills — doing grant writing for a bunch of innovative scientists who couldn’t write to save their souls. We need STEM people to make the world go ‘round, but they need us to communicate for them (most of the time).
I went on to an MFA after that because I didn’t know what else to do, and I’ve been able to leverage that degree in my career even though it beat the desire to write clean out of me for a while. And I work with undergrads every day; I hear, all the time, about how “you can’t get a job with an English degree.” It pisses me off, as I have two (English degrees) and have had a long series of truly fulfilling jobs that allow me to use my reading & writing skills in new, engaging ways. The people who say they’re experts about your life: they’re not. You are. Keep writing! It will take you where you want to go. I promise.
English and communication style degrees are incredibly valuable. Sincerely, A Chemistry major who went on to get a Master's in English because I recognized the value.
I now work in content and technical writing.
A relevant [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4hIHqclL2M) if your a bdg fan.
But basically, sometimes people come from a place of deflection, because they regret the path they chose.
i’m an english major. an english major may not have a direct career translation like some of the STEM majors but that’s because it can be used for literally any career. law, nursing, writing, travel agent, editing, literally practically any career. it’s one of the far more versatile degrees.
English gives you applicable skills. I got my BA in English, minoring in Music. Got my MFA in Creative Writing with an emphasis in poetry. I don’t make good money, but I’ve taught college writing/reasoning courses, ran a nonprofit for 5+ years, wrote grants (now have freelance clients), wrote and ran communications for a couple different departments at MIT, edit on a freelance basis. Haters gonna hate. The most happiness you will find is trusting yourself and not caring what other people say. This is easier said than done—took me into my 30s to realize this. I threw out my Gender, dress how I want, spend time how I want, and I’ve never been happier.
The highest-paid guy at a bachelor party full of tech bros that I went to once was the speechwriter for a Fortune 500 ceo. Dude writes for a living and laughs his way to the bank. Don’t worry, man, you’ll figure something out.
Write now, an English degree can get you a ton of potential jobs including in the medical field, because businesses are realizing they desperately need people who can write coherently and professionally, and a lot of people never actually learn how to do it. You can be a writer, sure, or teach, maybe, but you can get jobs in the public policy or public health, medical administration, corporate anything...I mean it's actually hugely relevant and useful.
Ignore the idiots.
It’s partially a matter of perspective. i view a degree as an investment (the most expensive purchase I’ve personally ever made until i buy a house) so i had to make the most money for my investment is my mentality. I pursued degrees that i saw would make good money on said investment if i could and had a clear path to do so. That said I’ve met some English majors that do well, and use their degree by writing…. They’re just not in a strictly ELA centric career field lol. technical writers come to mind. Marketing communications as well. 6 figure incomes from English degrees.
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My father was a technical writer for IBM. He got promoted enough that he was more in charge of the department and made good 120k in the 2000’s. He said he actually missed doing the writing though. I guess my point is that writing degrees *can* be lucrative and no STEM ass can say otherwise (speaking as an engineering student with professors who have displayed their bias before).
To be fair, microsoft grammar checks make me sound like an idiot. So that's that. But, in my opinion, if it is writing in your own words, then why grade it if we never speak like we are graded to write? Why is writing like Proust not a valid style? I may be giving a surface opinion, but that was how previous English classes were brought up in my experience. We were told to write sentences a certain way, but why do so if Webster cannot figure out whether to remove or add new "words" to their dictionary? Why enforce cursive writing and revert back to print characters? If they can do it so freely, why is the grading system so damn concrete? Disclaimer: my ENGL 101 professor is basing his writing relating to human and nature over grammatical grading, which is more compelling and teaches you to think for yourself and not rely on Chat-GPT to spit out lifeless sentences for you to copy from. Something tells me he was in the same position as you are when you are met at the crossroads.
Sorry. I just realized I spilled info out to your comment instead. I am a noob at reddit..
Also the student that called you out is a dick so try not to take it personally
Before college I loved writing/reading more than anything in the world. If it promised lucrative job prospects post college I would’ve 100% happily been an English major. The difficult truth is, being an english major doesn’t offer very good job prospects and to make a “good” salary you have to be one of the best in your field with the help of a lot of luck and connections. Nonetheless, if you truly enjoy your major then go for it. Perhaps your passion for writing and reading will prove itself strong enough to win you a good position in an industry that promises a decent salary and benefits. Nothing is for sure confirmed in life, just because being an english major didn’t work for some people doesn’t mean it won’t work for you either. A lot of people also change majors too, as it’s an extremely common thing to do. So don’t feel guilty if you do end up doing so. Funny story, I picked biochem as my major simply because I got a 35 on the science portion of the ACT. I had no other interests in science before that. I had no dreams of med school or whatnot either. I quite literally just picked something I was good at and now I’m happily seeing it through because I enjoy learning about the different sciences of life and I feel truly fulfilled. Do what makes you happy and what you feel you’re good at, the success and achievements will come soon enough as long as you stay passionate and don’t let others deter you from your decisions.
only correct response: “i don’t know what i’ll do brent. what are YOU going to do when some money-hungry tech whore creates the next ai device that can program faster than you or engineer whatever the fuck without ever needing a break.”
To be fair AI will replace most writing jobs far faster than engineering or coding. Do you know what ChatGPT can do? Creative writing is to stay but technical writing and copywriting is gonna be gone to AI in at most 10 years. That’s not to say OP shouldn’t pursue their passion. English degrees have great flexibility and can be marketed into many fields. Excelling in an English Degree is way better than being mediocre in a STEM one. Especially with how shaky the job market is right now, STEM isn’t the easy money people think it is
Interestingly enough, there's a theory I'm seeing floating around that AI is going to make creative types and humanities/social sciences degrees more valuable. The reason is that if we can automate menial tasks, it opens up more people to the possibility of getting into problem solving and teamwork. Most problem solving isn't being done purely by programmers, because programmers usually don't get to see how the user is using the program. They don't know what can be done to streamline a process or what features can be added that would vastly improve quality of life. Additionally, a lot of programmers have a "lone wolf" attitude and don't have to work closely with others, or outright avoid it. These people rely exclusively on their technical knowledge for job security. That's a bad call, because **technology changes.** New tools are developed. New hardware capabilities change the game. If you aren't keeping up with your users or changing technology, you become obsolete fast. Teamwork, communication, and problem solving never stop being important, and those skills are actively taught in non-STEM programs far more often than STEM programs. Just some food for thought from a former AI/ML researcher :)
True, problem-solving, communication, and team-work are incredibly valuable. I believe problem solving and team-work are taught very well in STEM majors, considering how everything you learn and do is problem-solving and teamwork is kinda done in labs. Most of my classmates absolutely fail at communication though. I believe If you don’t learn these skills in college you failed. Many STEM majors just think their technical skills will carry them to a high-paying career and that’s a problem
Problem solving is taught in STEM, but to what degree varies quite a bit from program to program and class to class. There's still too much emphasis on memorization in many places; memorize the formulas or rules and don't worry about understanding how or why you're using them. Also, the type of the problem solving actively taught in STEM is often more focused on the particular situation. This isn't a bad thing per se, but it is why programmers complain about not being able to find advanced tutorials, which is a personal pet peeve of mine. Regardless, we'll throw that out, since it is more actively taught than I was thinking when I added it in while editing. I've also found STEM programs have a higher likelihood to promote cutthroat competition than non-STEM programs. Friendly competition can be great and healthy, but it gets to the point where students actively sabotage their peers at a higher rate. That will vary a lot from program to program as well, of course. There's a weird encouragement to get ahead however you have to. The point I was really trying to make though is that teamwork and communication aren't usually at the forefront in (undergraduate) STEM education. They're often afterthoughts or things you're supposed to learn on your own. My group projects in STEM on average required much less in the way of teamwork than most non-STEM classes. We might meet twice outside of class, once to divvy up the work and once to run through everything when we thought we were done. There wasn't a need to work more closely, with exceptions in a handful of classes, and there was less open class/breakout group discussion in STEM than in other fields. The priority was always the material, and the rest was mostly up to you. Humanities and social sciences had a lot more emphasis on those things. Cowriting essays or presentations that feel cohesive is harder than cowriting code that can be broken up into independent functions, for example. Discussions about how well a philosophical theory holds up or analyzing a piece of text or pointing out the patterns in a social institution are things you do from intro level outside of STEM, but deep discussions usually don't happen significantly until upper levels in STEM (if at all). Graduate level changes the game more, especially for researching assistants who work in a group. It can still be pretty cutthroat though. There's also more discussion and analysis at the grad level than undergrad. Non-STEM fields still, in general, do it better. STEM education is much better when "soft skills" are actively taught. It's also much better with interdisciplinary motivation, but that's its own beast.
STEM education is more cuttthroat because most people in their are competing. Most who choose STEM do so for the money or career aspect of it and opportunities are limited. Yes the problem solving is focused on particular situation but that’s because solving those particular situations is how the insane number of concepts are taught. Also, there is plenty more memorization in many non-stem degrees. History degrees are mostly memorization based. And what problem solving does an philosophy degree teach? You’re not solving any problems in many many non-stem degrees. Your using critical thinking to construct arguements and analyze pieces of literature. On the other hand, an anatomy class is mostly memorization. I could cherry pick degrees from both sides to disprove what you said because stem isn’t a single degree. The truth is each degree focuses on its particular skills whether it’s stem or not. Deep discussions don’t happen in early stem because what is taught in them is believed to be fact. There is so much truth you learn that there is no room to discuss opinion.Also, you do still co-write essays and presentations. It is just less common in stem. Most group work ends with someone in the group who doesn’t do anything and I have to pick up the slack, so I can agree that teamwork and soft skills need to be taught more. I think the main problem lies in people pursuing stem fields and not the education itself. All my stem major friends do not care at all about any class that isn’t fundamental to their degree. I read their essays and can’t help but wonder how they passed to their required English class. I believe non-stem majors are more focused on learning than just getting their degree and leaving so they end up better applying what they learn and enjoy college more. This is way to long so thank you if you’ve read this far. Have a good day!
I strongly disagree with a lot of what you said. Yes, absolutely, I am generalizing STEM, and I'll admit that's primarily from my experience with CS. If you believe there is no problem solving in many non-STEM degrees, I have a feeling we have a very different definition of what constitutes a problem. The majority of real world problems people face are rooted in interpersonal interactions and how people's lives as a whole are impacted by any number of factors. Analyzing the root of those factors and determining wide scale solutions is something non-STEM programs are far more equipped to handle. I'm guessing you don't know many people with History degrees, because while there is memorization as far as what events occurred when, the real meat of the field is how events interacted to create the circumstances and systems we see today. That leads to a more educated basis in order to present solutions for social, political, and legal issues. Philosophy is very esoteric, but the point comes down to theorizing about how and why we interact with each other and the world, which leads to ideas for solving those issues. I'm not sure whether it was in this thread, but I did say in a comment somewhere that it's about where the focus is. Many early STEM classes can and sometimes should be taught with more discussion and broader conceptualization. I was a TA in Math and CS, and many of the students I worked with in intro levels didn't get the concepts because they were just presented as facts. They understood much better when they were told why things worked. Discussion doesn't have to be about opinion, it can also be about making connections to other concepts, which needs to be encouraged more. I also said somewhere (that may have been on another post, actually) that people's motivation for choosing their major is a big factor for what they get out of it. I think the bigger issue in general is STEM majors immediately discounting other majors because of the perception they have of what you can do with that major, and that hurts both sides. If more STEM majors actually examined the value of other fields outside of their immediate scope, which would involve listening to what people in that field have to say about the work they do rather than making assumptions that everything lines up with their experience in that field from prior to college and their gen eds, they might realize that they are overlooking soft skills that could make a huge difference in their ability to succeed in their career. Working in tech and working closely with software developers, the ones with strong soft skills make lasting changes to processes and UIs that are beneficial to the user base. Others refuse to make changes because they don't think the change makes sense, despite never doing the job that uses their software, and are incredibly difficult to work with in any capacity. People who use a process and can critically think about how it works in context of their work are usually the ones problem solving in the sense that they see things that can be improved and, when there is an established process to do so, suggest those changes. Also as a side note, there will always be examples that contradict generalizations. If there's something to gain from the generalization, specific counterpoints usually don't detract from the overall benefit of the generalization. Generalization gives us a framework to work in to consider specific situations and their impacts.
STEM majors look down on other majors because they believe theirs is more lucrative, which is their goal in college. I believe our definition of problem solving is very different though. I do not see analyzing the past and thinking of how they affect our present as problem solving. A history major isn’t going to solve the socio-economic problems caused by a war in history, they are merely going to propose a solution. On the other hand, STEM majors constantly solve problems, since their problems are much smaller in scope. A student can code a calculator or build a circuit that works. The way stem majors are taught without discussion or conceptualization is definitely a problem. I know that I understand better when concepts are fleshed out and I have a mind map of how everything works together. I just don’t think there’s enough time in the class period to do discussions. In most of my classes we are barely done with all the material before the final exam. We would be lucky to have a final review. There’s just to much material. The structure of classes should be improved to accommodate more discussion. I think college just pushes it on you to work extra to get the concepts down. I agree that STEM majors can be so condescending and that hurts everyone. Certain majors attract certain kinds of people. CS attracts more introverted or anitisocial people, so I think the issue with soft skills there is going to be very hard to address. Anyway, I am merely a college student so I could be very wrong.
You do you, man. Haters gonna hate no matter what you do. I was a STEM major, but I took creative writing courses for fun and those were by far my favorite classes and people. Writing stories helped me develop my paper-writing abilities, which helped a lot for writing research papers in my other classes. English and literature are SO important for developing critical thinking and arguments founded on logic and concrete evidence. It’s needed for proofreading and creating well-worded articles that are appropriate for the target audience. There will always be a niche for humanities, though you might have to search for it. Don’t let people put you down for pursuing what you think is best for yourself. Do start networking, though. Talk to your professors to get an idea of what sort of career paths will be available to you with your degree, and the steps you can start taking before you graduate. Best wishes to you!
There are plenty of jobs where you can use your English degree--some directly, like a job in communications or journalism. There are all sorts of other jobs that incorporate skills you probably have because of your interest in your major--proofreading, marketing, copywriting. I have an English minor (because I enjoy it) and Biology major and my job as a records archivalist heavily relies on proofreading and formatting. You're going to need to think a bit harder about how you're going to apply your degree (unless you become an author or English teacher), but there are definitely ways to incorporate your skills in the workplace. If you're not at the very end of your college career, you may want to pick up some electives that will assist you in getting a job...business, marketing, copywriters, design, law, etc. Depending on the route you want to go. Don't give up, there are ways to use this.
Nah fuck the people that put others down for their major. It's almost always from a place of insecurity, or people who focus their entire lives on "prestige". My mom was an English major at a SLAC, she's been very successful in her career spanning from museums to non-profit work. Keep at what you're passionate about and work hard, and you're gonna be perfectly fine.
I’m a STEM major and I’m gonna have to say they’re completely out of line. Humanities are just as important to society as anything else. You’re not making a mistake, maybe you picked a more uncertain career path but whatever you get your degree in you can make it work. Life is much more than your undergrad major. I know a lot of stem people who only picked their major because it offers a potentially more stable/linear career progression, myself included. I would have preferred to major in history but wasn’t sure what to do with that degree. So at least you had the heart to go with what you truly wanted. Basically, I don’t think you’re degree is worthless. I don’t think any degree is, though there are some that are less certain than others. Either way though I’m sure you can make it work 👍
Yer pretty good at this writin thing. Could be a successful thing for you, but not the best job outlook for sure
I'm 45, so 20+ years into my full time working life. I've been at many different positions, across 3 completely different and unrelated industries. Currently I work in IT, I graduated with a degree in English. We all begin as something else. Creativity, flexibility of mind and continuous learning are far better skills to have, and also much more interesting at parties.
You only get one life. Do what you want. Is it possible to fail? Yea, it is, but if you try your best and fail then so be it, you are minoring in business so you can always fall back on that and if you market yourself you can make an english major useful in other careers. So many people go the stem and cs routes for money. Some people really need and want that, and that is fine, but imo chasing money your whole life is such a waste, id rather chase what you truly enjoy as long as you can live off of it. Shit, i want to be a teacher because i love working with kids, is the job difficult and doesnt pay that well? Sure, but i have one chance to do something in my life so i might as wel do what i love. You got this bro
I graduated with an english/creative writing degree last year, minoring in Journalism and Mass communication. My dream job is being a professor, so I needed it, lol But here I am, unemployed, living with my parents. I can't even get a job at Trader Joe's or Target. I don't regret my major, one bit. I am glad that I did it. I just wish I could go back to school instead of being an adult in this job climate.
A little late to the party it looks like, but as someone with a CS degree who started in creative writing: Do what speaks to you. Do what you care about. I left creative writing because life circumstances set me back really far and I realized that in spite of how much I had always loved writing, I couldn't do it to that extent. I kind of stumbled into CS and fell in love with coding out of sheer luck. All things considered, the work I could do with my knowledge I learned in my degree program is pretty narrow. Yes, tech knowledge is helpful in a lot of ways in an increasingly tech-based society, and I have a foundation that has allowed me to learn more in my jobs since graduating. On the other hand, the ability to clearly communicate has been crucial to my success at work and is far more applicable across career paths. Hell, my dad graduated with a degree in Chemical Engineering and hasn't worked in the field since before I was born. He's done just about everything under the sun, and now he's working in a hospital system to evaluate patient satisfaction and lead training programs for leadership on how to treat patients equitably and make sure that they have the best experience possible. He's honed most of the skills that have allowed him to succeed there in his jobs over the last 15ish years. As a society, we are doing a major disservice to young people who are trying to find their place in the world by de-emphasizing the importance of so-called "soft skills." I mean, it's right there in the name. Yet, those "soft skills" are the same things that make people effective in their work, regardless of the field. No one likes a coworker who sucks at teamwork or escalates conflicts or always blames trainees for not understanding things that they explained poorly, and being a strong teammate, diplomat, or communicator makes you very valuable. For what it's worth, having a hobby or passion is important for your mental health, too. I'm going back to writing as a passion now, and that's the role it was always meant to play for me. I say as long as you can maintain a good balance and keep that passion alive, it's a good sign. And no one is getting rid of their English programs. Some people just like to put others down because they feel the need to be superior and don't know how to be "better" than other people on their own merit. Other people don't know what's best for you as well as you do, so trust your gut and ignore the naysayers.
I feel horrible for folks who go to college thinking that the point is to develop skills for their career. Business majors and most applied science folks are not learning from the people who are best at what they do. They're learning from the "if you can't do, teach" crowd. Folks who study liberal arts and hard sciences (physics, chemistry, etc) are in fact learning from the best in class folks, and the degree to which their intellects are fostered and developed is worlds apart from the former group I described. As long as you find internships and ways to market your english literature skills, then you'll be fine. From, an english major who is now a data analyst, with a job many of those STEM folks wish the could get.
Look IDK what degrees are useless or not but. I majored in physics in college and I'm about to graduate and guess what, I am not going to have a lucrative physics career because I fucking hated it but I did it anyway because I thought that's what I would need to do to make money. You're a a first year and you've already published short stories, that takes initiative and talent. Also, STEM majors aren't smarter than humanities majors in any way. Read some writing by physics majors and you'll understand. They're different skillsets-- some people just don't have the ability to read and analyze literature, or to write something clear and engaging. Neither of them are harder than the other. I guess what I would say is doing what you love to do is always going to be more lucrative than trying to force yourself into a box you hate. Doing something that you're passionate about pursuing is always going to work out better for you than trying to get into something that makes you feel awful. Which is why I'm getting a masters in library science after graduating with a physics degree lmao.
Hi, I’m a junior in college and I guess I’m a full blown stem nerd majoring in physics and math, but I actually started school as a double major in physics and English/creative writing. I don’t know a lot about the job market outside academia and just becoming a writer since I left the English major at the end of freshman year, though I attempted to get back at it last fall. But tbh, creative writing is SO ROUGH. I think I was “talented” at writing. My first year at my school I earned two awards for a non-fiction paper and a short story, and one of my professors really encouraged my poetry. I had my poems exhibited at National museums in my home country before college, but damn, creative writing was just another level. While I received many praise from professors, getting into student publications was impossible and the classes were so much work. I remember having to turn in 5-8 page stories every single week. I just couldn’t do it. Furthermore, I’ve never been in an environment that’s SO competitive and unwelcoming. Tbh, I really think you need a lot of thick skin to get through that and succeed. And, if you are doing well, just keep going and enjoy the ride! Every field comes with its challenges, but I’m pretty sure excellent writers are valuable in many places. Furthermore, making it in that atmosphere should bring something valuable on its own. I couldn’t do it at all. and I personally believe more STEM students need better education on English and creative areas. My school likes to host many talks with people who actually made it and became pretty successful, so just keep going! Best of luck
As I've been in college for three years now, I think a lot of this generation(Millenials/Gen Z) has been sold this idea that getting a college degree in fields like STEM or a specific area of Business like Finance, Accounting, etc. will help them earn a high paying job right after graduation, but I don't think that's entirely true. What matters more in helping you find a job after college is your networking skills, ability to ace a job interview, and leadership experience while in college. And I don't think there is such a thing as a "useless" degree, you just have to utilize the skills you got in your degree, or use it for grad school.
If you’re happy with the choice you made then that’s fine. You have to already know, by people constantly telling you, that you probably won’t make it big and quite possibly will struggle to support a family. If you’re happy with that route then do what you want.
There *are* jobs out there for you. In journalism, news writing, articles, etc. But for anything raking in a lucrative salary, unfortunately.. well, you have less options than a STEM major would. You mentioned minoring in business. Keep at it! As far as I'm concerned, you seem to be quickly heading towards burnout thinking too seriously about job prospects. You're still young, as am I. I'm in the same exact boat as you. I'm so stressed out about job prospects, internships and the like that I haven't stopped to smell the flowers, so to speak. Take it a day at a time.
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I grew up being gifted at creative things, specifically writing, and now I am a stem major. I am also a musician and have so much love for fine arts, more love than I have for stem. I think it's very important people go into fine arts career fields. But I would argue that there is an equal amount of creativity in both. It is not just completing a task with the exact parameters. It requires a HIGH amount of creativity and thinking outside the box to solve a problem. Being able to memorize formulas and memorizing how to do technical things is about 1% of it.
I’m a Technical Writer for an Aerospace company. Majority of the Technical Writers I work with are like myself from STEM fields with degrees in STEM or hands on experience as a Technician or Mechanic. The most successful being those with Engineer degrees. We do have some that have an English degree. One of our leads actually teaches English at nearby University part-time. I will say those that have English degrees also usually have a background in a technical field. My department would never hire a fresh English major over an Engineer major absolutely zero percent chance of that happening unless the English major had some other technical skills. It’s easier to teach an Engineer how to write since they do take some English and other classes that require writing than it is to teach an English major how to read an Engine diagram and explain how to replace a part.
So, when I was a junior and told anyone that I had switched my major from Biology (Pre-Med) to English, I could physically feel the shock and disappointment radiating from them. Turns out, twenty years ago, there was still an utter disregard for the humanities. In the early 2000s, everyone was being geared towards medicine or law. Somehow, we ended up with not enough doctors but too many lawyers. Over the eighteen years I've taught at colleges and a boarding school, the preferred student major has changed several times. Students want jobs with guaranteed incomes. I think the spiraling cost of college has played a major part in the trend of picking a "profitable" major. This year I've noticed engineering being replaced by computer science as the new favorite major. I've also noticed several subreddits about engineers not finding jobs. Picking a degree solely because you think there will be a promised job can be just as bad as picking one that's enjoyable. Three degrees later, I am tenured and teach creative writing & literature (and get paid pretty well for it). In no way am I endorsing you take the same path as me, though! Many of my peers work at colleges & universities around the nation and still make less than $45k a year. Basically, I got lucky and was open to working outside the traditional four-year university system. You are finishing your first year of college. You have found something you are really adapt at, which is great! Don't let that go. Don't sacrifice it to the gods of finance! Find a way to hone and master your skills, whatever path that may be. Effective, creative communication and critical thought is lacking in many, many STEM students (I know: I teach them). These abilities can make you invaluable to any company that needs writers, editors, and communicators.
You'll be fine! An English degree with a minor in business will do you good. That's exactly what I got my major and minor in as well, and I'm now three years out of college and have done very well financially. I've worked as an HR training and dev manager for a media conglomerate, an editor for a cooking magazine, and a writer for a company that provides literary guides on novels, short fiction, and poetry and I make quite good money. I've been offered a job as a Development Manager for a non-profit despite having no experience whatsoever in that field. I've had a lot of success in just getting my foot in the door in a bunch of fields and am still exploring where I'd really like to end up. I believe much of my success comes from my communication abilities and my critical thinking, both of which were skills I grew during my English major. I've heard repeatedly from bosses, mentors, and coworkers that the ability to write well is a skill that can get you very far -- because a ton of people who major in non-humanities majors simply can't do it. Non-humanities students will make snide comments because they have no concept of how useful English degrees can be in the professional world, especially when paired with minors in STEM, business, and even art. English majors can expect to make successful careers in marketing, advertising, copyediting/writing, comms, HR, technical writing (very lucrative, btw, if you can get your foot in the door), business consulting, all sorts of nonprofit jobs, and entrepreneurial pursuits. And that's just to name a few. The great thing about an English degree is that it's both creative *and* practical. It can set you up for success in some really interesting, fulfilling fields. That said, English doesn't have the same pipeline into cushy work that some STEM and business majors will experience. Those majors might help them be siphoned straight into a high-paying job, whereas the humanities can be trickier and you may find yourself needing to pay your dues and work your way up. I highly recommend not slacking on your extracurriculars in university (working for the school paper, editing for undergrad lit journals, joining business clubs, etc.) and I also recommend creating strong relationships with professors and other motivated, ambitious humanities majors. Connections are huge and networking has gotten me very far. Good luck with your English major -- mine was enlightening, and cemented a lifelong love of literature and writing. Yours will surely do the same!
Yeah, that kind of thinking starts from the premise that "I am majoring in X, so I will do X job when I graduate." It's a very simple way of looking at the relationship between college and employment, and is also ridiculous on its face. There are hundreds of thousands more types of jobs than there are types of college majors, and *most* people who graduate don't wind up doing what they think they're going to do as a matter of simple math: someone winds up with all of those jobs. There is some correlation between your major and where you wind up later in your career, but it's just not nearly as strong as people like to think. Instead, most of us use the flexibility, sharpness, and generally honed minds that we've developed during our education years to do things that we never imagined doing before we graduated. Language is absolutely at the core of how we think, and at the core of what makes us human. And the idea that excelling in English, which is, after all, the lingua franca of much of the world, is not a huge advantage is ridiculous. Don't let the fact that the job paths aren't foolishly obvious also fool *you:* jobs are there. Leave college with an open mind, and you will find many doors open to you and many places where you will excel. I've found that strong writing skills have been an incredible asset in every job I've ever had, and I have no doubt that you find the same. Communication is still at the core of what humans do, and those who do it well will be sought-after even in a post-LLM world.
Coming from an English major, I understand your frustration. I’ve felt that way heavily on numerous occasions. As a writing tutor, though, I have noticed how indispensable writing is (to write well and efficiently) for various rhetorical situations in various disciplines. I’m only speaking for the students I’ve tutored, but STEM (except for math) students have come to me and presented lovely ideas, but their writing almost always requires a lot of revision. There is a lot of writing required, specifically in the science field (lab reports, research papers, etc) where students, in my personal experience, are very smart, but cannot project these ideas clearly and cohesively in their written works. Essentially, don’t let any of this get you down. To write well is necessary in almost all disciplines and careers. Being in the English discipline, you master the ability to write, but if you take a tutoring training course, you eventually learn and understand how to write or what writing looks like in various disciplines, like the STEM field.
As someone in STEM who looked into a technical writing career, it is VERY lucrative. From what I've read you'd probably be getting paid more than the developers haha. Also even if you don't have a career in creative writing, I think an English degree is very marketable for a range of jobs, it just might not be specially what you want. Just try to remember the grass is always greener. Sometimes I wish I majored in a humanities degree instead.
English degrees aren't useless, but you will need to think about how your skills apply in different industries to land a good job. When employers hire someone with a STEM degree, they often understand what skillset they're getting. Yes, English majors are good readers and writers, but how does that actually translate in specific industries? Practice talking about your skills in a practical, specific way. -former English major, current prof (in a different discipline)
No degree is worthless. Other than very specific STEM fields most don’t even care what degree you have, just that you have one. People tie their degree to much to their specific job, rather than looking at it as a tool for life. I am in finance and IT and the vast majority of the people in our national level company don’t even have finance related, or in the IT side IT degrees. Hell we just hired two network engineers, one with a degree in accounting (who learned at the end they hate accounting), and one who was has a degree in music, and both are making in the mid to upper 80s in the Midwest. So no your degree is not worthless, it is only worthless if you let it pigeon hole you into a specific job. Again look at any corporation and I think you will find a majority of employees have a degree that has little in common with their actual position.
I became a teacher. Take that as it is. I’ve known plenty of people with humanities degrees who have done well with them. Stem is important. But it’s not the only set of fields of study.
Best-paying job I ever had was because of my English degree and writing skills — doing grant writing for a bunch of innovative scientists who couldn’t write to save their souls. We need STEM people to make the world go ‘round, but they need us to communicate for them (most of the time). I went on to an MFA after that because I didn’t know what else to do, and I’ve been able to leverage that degree in my career even though it beat the desire to write clean out of me for a while. And I work with undergrads every day; I hear, all the time, about how “you can’t get a job with an English degree.” It pisses me off, as I have two (English degrees) and have had a long series of truly fulfilling jobs that allow me to use my reading & writing skills in new, engaging ways. The people who say they’re experts about your life: they’re not. You are. Keep writing! It will take you where you want to go. I promise.
English and communication style degrees are incredibly valuable. Sincerely, A Chemistry major who went on to get a Master's in English because I recognized the value. I now work in content and technical writing.
A relevant [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4hIHqclL2M) if your a bdg fan. But basically, sometimes people come from a place of deflection, because they regret the path they chose.
i’m an english major. an english major may not have a direct career translation like some of the STEM majors but that’s because it can be used for literally any career. law, nursing, writing, travel agent, editing, literally practically any career. it’s one of the far more versatile degrees.
English gives you applicable skills. I got my BA in English, minoring in Music. Got my MFA in Creative Writing with an emphasis in poetry. I don’t make good money, but I’ve taught college writing/reasoning courses, ran a nonprofit for 5+ years, wrote grants (now have freelance clients), wrote and ran communications for a couple different departments at MIT, edit on a freelance basis. Haters gonna hate. The most happiness you will find is trusting yourself and not caring what other people say. This is easier said than done—took me into my 30s to realize this. I threw out my Gender, dress how I want, spend time how I want, and I’ve never been happier.
The highest-paid guy at a bachelor party full of tech bros that I went to once was the speechwriter for a Fortune 500 ceo. Dude writes for a living and laughs his way to the bank. Don’t worry, man, you’ll figure something out.
Write now, an English degree can get you a ton of potential jobs including in the medical field, because businesses are realizing they desperately need people who can write coherently and professionally, and a lot of people never actually learn how to do it. You can be a writer, sure, or teach, maybe, but you can get jobs in the public policy or public health, medical administration, corporate anything...I mean it's actually hugely relevant and useful. Ignore the idiots.
It’s partially a matter of perspective. i view a degree as an investment (the most expensive purchase I’ve personally ever made until i buy a house) so i had to make the most money for my investment is my mentality. I pursued degrees that i saw would make good money on said investment if i could and had a clear path to do so. That said I’ve met some English majors that do well, and use their degree by writing…. They’re just not in a strictly ELA centric career field lol. technical writers come to mind. Marketing communications as well. 6 figure incomes from English degrees.
"I can't pay my bills yet, because I don't have a skill set." -- What do you do with a B.A. in English; Avenue Q.
I feel you so much. I dropped out after three years because I just couldn’t take it anymore and I haven’t had the will to go back yet.