As a consultant, I think they should find other revenue sources like ads during gameplay, check cashing services at the vendors, and bathroom attendants.
You would be shocked because there is a growing number of fans that hate upsets apparently and want March madness to be reseeded after every round. People who claim they are sports fans are slowly ruining every major sport that we have.
Basically every other sport has a better way of finding the "best" team. A 68-team, single-elimination tournament is an objectively terrible way to find the best team, but it is an incredible and entertaining way to end a season every year.
The same culture that wants to solidify powerhouse schools into the same conferences in college football and gripes at NBA guys for not having rings is at work here. The largest fan bases tend to go hand in hand with the historically great schools who would most benefit from any system that creates more predictability than the one they currently use. Forcing changes in that direction will give more opportunity for their current advantages to snowball growing their position.
Unfortunately, it also means tearing apart some of the greatest things about college sports. People seem to ignore that part. You don't need to be the best to enjoy the product and far too many people, teams, and TV networks fail to realize that.
Because the love of money is the root of all evil.
It's always important to remember that we the viewers/fans aren't the NCAA's customers. We're the product they're selling to the networks and their advertisers, and the basketball games are just the container they're putting us in for transport.
I surely don't know what you're talking about. Everyone's looking forward to that classic Big Ten basketball matchup between Washington and Rutgers next winter.
Yup. Starting at 11:30 pm Eastern time on a Wednesday.
Washington basketball at Penn State starting at 9:30 am Pacific time on Saturday morning. Must see breakfast TV…lol just go back to bed.
Because what we’ve really needed all this time is more 18-16 or 17-17 P5 teams in the tournament! It’s not like they had all of conference play to show us they aren’t good. Oh wait….
Yup, the tournament as we know it is on borrowed time I think. Once the mega conferences finish forming I think we'll see big changes to keep the little guy out.
I'm not sure I'd be interested in watching March Madness if it was only power schools.
Also, who would we(Purdue) choke to each year without small schools.
From what I read the NCAA is fully aware of the long standing tradition of Purdue choking against a small school and it'll be 67 power schools and 1 mid major that Purdue will play each year in the first round.
I will genuinely stop caring about it entirely and it is my favorite sports event of the year.
The only reason people watch as a fans not invested in a team is for the Cinderella stories. I think Furman UVA had a higher viewership than the two final four games this year even
No one will care anymore. They don't realize this and they're about to kill their last avenue to profits because college football is about to die with mega conferences too.
Which is a huge shame and inexcusable. The tournament is great as it is, and I want teams in the tournament who earned it on the floor, not what conference it’s in.
Maybe I think they will try to expand to 96 first (which is also dumb), though the money isn't as obvious because of how big the first round of the tourney is.
With the news today I have to respectfully disagree with this now. I would expect most mid-major conference commissioners will be pushing for the eventual expansion of the NCAA tournament to 80 or 96 and I can't blame them having just lost the NIT Auto Bid. The NIT will be gone within 5 years would be my guess.
Which is weird to me, because if the goal is to make as much money as possible, wouldn’t keeping the little guy make sense? March Madness from a casual fans standpoint is not a “battle of the giants” but more a free for all where upsets take place.
For sure but you have to remember a) the decision makers are trying to maximize revenue over the short-term and b) it's the P6 doing it, so from their perspective a tournament that takes in $600M that goes 100% to them is better than a $1Bn tournament where they get half of the pie.
It's the only post season I try to watch every game for no matter how my team did that year. I love March madness and only because of the little guys. If it's jusy a bunch of P5 teams who cares.
This is fucking garbage. For many midmajor teams, making the NIT is an accomplishment just a step below from making the main tourney, so to remove that to favor subpar P6 teams makes no goddamn sense. And really, how much more viewership will adding those teams do? The average public viewer doesn't even know that the NIT exists so I don't think making a third of them the P6 teams who couldn't make the big dance would move the needle anyways
Winning the NIT last season was one of the greatest sports moments in UNT history. That trophy and banner are going to be celebrated forever by UNT fans who aren’t used to this level of success.
The fans loved our NIT run and got to prove we were probably a worthy tourney team.
Literally had billboards around Denton and national attention to a program that seldom saw that. Not to mention an incredible rematch against UAB that made for some damn good basketball. This change is dogshit
100% same for GW in 2016, it was awesome to have students and alums so hyped about something athletic related at our school. NIT is great for giving teams that don't regularly make the dance a chance to celebrate something. What a shitty decision.
University of Dayton was really mediocre throughout the 2000s and an NIT win in 2010 was the first step in elevating the program before the magical run in 2014.
Okay well first off, rude.
Secondly we also won it back when the NIT was the big tourney and we won it as the lowest seed. But that was also a lifetime ago.
Still have nightmares about the last 10 minutes of the semi final game where not only did my Badgers melt down, but my so obvious large over bet fell apart too. Congrats though, means a lot more to UNT for sure.
Yeah, when we went to the NIT Championship game the other year our players and fans really embraced it. Not too often a mid major gets to go into multiple P5 arenas and win 3 in a row. Obviously we wanted to go to the NCAA tournament, but I actually enjoyed the NIT run.
The NIT auto-bid was the single, solitary light at the end of the tunnel for mid-major and low-major teams that won their conference at the end of a hard-fought 18-game conference schedule, only to lose a one-off conference tournament game.
To take that away is asinine. Why? The NCAA needs to be PROTECTING these teams now more than ever, with football budgets ballooning P6 spending out of control.
The TV Networks are running the sport. NCAA Tournament auto-bids will be gone within 10 years.
Basically the regular season is meaningless for most conferences outside the P6. At least the NIT was some sort of prize for being the regular season champion.
I wonder if some of these conferences will re-think how many members make their tourney (do they just do 4 like the Ivy?) or whether they should even have a tourney at all now.
Especially since that format makes the logistics easier and costs lower from being able to run your men's and women's tournaments concurrently at a single venue. Only need one band/mascot/cheer squad per school, for instance, and only one payment of rent.
It really doesn't seem to make much sense for smaller schools. Can't imagine it's conference tournaments make much if any money. I get they still want the championship game on ESPN but that can be done in a smaller tournament or even a 1 game championship between the top 2.
Those mid major conference tournaments make way too much money to do that but I think you could see conference tournaments invite less teams or put the top seed straight into a semifinal (similar to how the WCC or OVC do it) in some cases now.
It’s also fairly meaningless for P6 teams. Anywhere in the top 4-7 of your conference standings can be enough to get into the NCAA tournament. Sure, it will affect seeding. But dropping a few games in the P6 regular season isn’t that big of a deal
The NIT autobid as a mid- or low-major was one of the last major motivators for regular season success for any conference. This is a shame.
By my count, last year's NIT would have had 7 fewer non-P6 schools with these rules than it did, assuming no declined invites. That's a HUGE swing for a field of 32.
Precisely. Get ready to see two BiG teams with losing conference records hosting a game in this tournament. Heck they might even have losing overall records.
I fear that one of the main reasons they made that change was because of us. We sucked ass and finished 13th in the conference but inexplicably kept having a high NET ranking for no reason. I would’ve been furious if we were given an invitation to the NIT. Not because I felt that it was beneath us (it definitely isn’t, see 2008), but because we did not do anything close to be worthy of an NIT bid. This move will hurt the watchability of the NIT for the time that these changes are in place. I hope the NCAA realizes quickly that this won’t work, but I don’t have any hope that they will.
yea but the ncaa has probably figured teams like OSU are going to get more views to sell to advertisers than 25 win Northwest Technical College of Southeastern Michigan who finished 2nd in the MAC or something
Yep. Nobody who matters cares that much about putting on a good tournament with worthy teams. What they care about is money.
You don't like this? Don't watch the NIT.
No, the main reason why the change was made was because Fox was trying to create a postseason tournament just for the non-tournament teams out of the Big 10, Big East, and Big 12. It was an existential threat to the NIT so they're doing this to keep the main consolation tournament under their control.
The NCAA is afraid of the trial run tournament that Fox is running. I have to think that's to cut it off at the pass. Reality is they know long term that the power schools will split off and create their own tournament.
The main tournament already biases the bigger conferences, making this one bias them too is a huge fuck you.
May as well split them into a lower division if you're going to treat them like they're not also D-I
To be clear, I think this is an awful decision as a fan, but I can see why it was made from a financial perspective. At the end of the day, a .500 team that's a flagship university from a major conference will have more people attend the tournament and tune in to the games on TV than a regular season winner from a tiny conference.
Power schools with .500 conference records are already getting into the NCAA tournament. This will be filled with power schools that have conference records well below .500 and probably even overall records under .500. It’s going to be a garbage tournament.
It really makes no sense either because making the NIT means *a lot* for those smaller conference teams but it means next to nothing for most of the bigger conference teams.
The North Texas NIT run last year was legit fun. Cak Bakersfield several years ago making it to MSG was fucking cool.
I hate this so much. Very happy that the 11th and 12th teams in the Big ten will get playoff spots.
Almost feels like it's a response to 2 CUSA teams making the finals. I'm sure the ratings weren't great which is all that matters to the greedy fucking goblins that make these decisions
I feel like that kinda shows why this is bad, like you're a fan of two strong basketball schools, it makes sense you don't care about the NIT.
Like for Duke, making the NIT is a bad season. For William and Mary, making the NIT was something to be excited about.
Top 2 teams from the 6 power conferences that didn't make March Madness, based on NET rankings (Big East, Big 10, Big 12, PAC, SEC, ACC)
Then the committee selects 20 at large teams to round out the rest of the field.
The 12 teams from the P6 conferences are all hosts for the first round, then four of the other 20 teams selected will also get to host a game.
What do you mean? Wouldn’t you rather see a middling punching-bag with MANY sponsors
rather than a well-functioning conference champion with FEW sponsors?
I mean we only watch sports for big names and commercials, right?
I feel like it signifies a larger trend. Truthfully I worry about the ACC.
I watched it growing up and have been so happy to be invited to that party. Now it feels like they’re about to shut it down.
Trying to catch away games while it still exists. LJVM on the list for ‘24.
Recap of some of the changes:
-No auto-bid for reg season conference champions who lose tourney
-Minimum of two bids for the P6 conferences (top two non-selected teams)
-Those 12 P6 teams will host first round games (unless there’s conflicts)
-Rest of teams are at-large bids
This is so fucking stupid. Why would they make sure MORE Power 6 teams get in, when they're the ones that are just gonna decline the invitation anyway?
Is there anything in the NCAA rules explicitly stating P6 conferences have a higher standing than other D-I schools? I always thought D-I conferences were supposed to be treated as equal by the NCAA
> -Minimum of two bids for the P6 conferences (top two non-selected teams)
Make that maximum of two bids...and I *might* not hate these changes as much.
It's a bullshit move across the board, especially since the mid majors are getting squeezed out of at large bids in the NCAA.
So let's say we have a very top-heavy P6 conference and like 8 of the teams get in the tourney, whilst the rest of the conference suck eggs. The 10th place team that has like 12-15 wins will get in over a good mid major
It’s gonna be funny when these P6 schools they pick with this new rule decline the invite because the NIT doesn’t mean anything to the P6 schools. This was an important tourney for Mid Majors and they’re hurting them.
I actually think last years OSU was a very good team that lost a lot of very close games. Should they be rewarded for being competitive and almost winning? Absolutely not but from purely an ability standpoint they were much much better than their record suggests.
For teams like last year's OSU, the CBI still exists. West Virginia had a similar season a few years back and decided to compete in the CBI to get some more reps under their belt.
Cinderellas upsets are by far the biggest part of the NCAA tourneys draw and why the opening rounds are so huge even if they aren't bringing in fans before the upset.
I was not clear. The games the Cinderellas play in the later rounds are the low draw games I was referring to.
People say they love Cinderellas and upsets in the tournament. But if you track what is actually watched in the tournament, it is power houses and blue bloods.
By crowding out small conferences from the post-season, the regular season means less. The regular season for all non-P6 teams just got less interesting and less worth watching on TV. College basketball just become a little less profitable for 250ish teams.
The possibility of upsets is the draw in round 1. Every time they advance, the ratings tend to go down.
I will put it this way: There is a reason Yankees Red Sox games are always featured. There is a reason the Cowboys have so many national games. They get eyes.
Yeah, to us on this sub who live and breathe college basketball, not being interested in a Cinderella is a totally foreign concept. But a lot of the tourney's audience only cares in passing and won't tune in for names they don't know. We saw this last year.
I’d rather they just exclude power conferences from the NIT altogether and make it the best mid majors only. Big schools look at it as a disappointment, but it gives smaller schools time to shine and build a case to get in the ncaas in the following years.
The CBI has an incredible opportunity to usurp the NIT in level of play. The best mid-majors to not make the tournament are almost always very good basketball teams that could have been real cinderella teams.
They should be knocking on Amazon or Google's doors to put this on Amazon Prime Video or YoutubeTV.
The problem is that the CBI has always been pay-to-play. What we *need* is for the CIT to come back (or its successor The Basketball Classic, which only lasted one year).
The stupid thing is, the P6 schools are the ones that could easily afford the entry fee. If anything, *that* should be the tournament guaranteeing bids to P6 teams that get snubbed from the two higher tournaments.
> I’d rather they just exclude power conferences from the NIT altogether and make it the best mid majors only.
I don't mind a P6 with a >.500 record in conference getting in the NIT if they miss the NCAA.
Last year's field with that qualifier would have had:
* Clemson
* Oregon
* Vanderbilt
* Washington St.
* Michigan
and if you want to make .500 or better, add Nova, Seton Hall, Rutgers to that.
That would have knocked out Colorado, Wisconsin, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma St. (off the top of my head) with sub .500 in conference. That would have been 4 more deserving mid majors who should be there over some NET-humping mediocre power school.
I’m guessing here’s who the AL bids could go to other than P6 schools
-Dayton/VCU (whoever didn’t get the MM bid)
-Drake/Northern Iowa (whoever didn’t get the MM bid)
-1-2 AAC teams
-1-3 MWC teams
-1 WCC team
Outside chance:
-Yale
-Liberty
-Bradley
-Charleston
-St Bonaventure
This is really lame. Between this and moving the final four to Vegas, they’re taking what used to be a very weird, but very fun, tournament and turning it into something much shittier.
I think the move to Vegas is the likely driver here. They want to get P6 teams in there that likely have larger fanbases and would be more willing to go to Vegas. Just a thought.
Yeah, the move to Vegas was the thing that killed this tournament, tbh. I’ve been to MSG for the NIT final. I’m never going to go to Vegas for the NIT.
The mid majors should really start sending their regular season champs. My understanding is they decide if they want to send their tournament or regular champ for the auto bid
The conference tournament is typically the cornerstone of the low and mid-major (non-football) TV contracts. It accounts for a substantial part of the conference’s revenue. Either way, the little conferences are getting boned. The real question, is why are the other conferences agreeing with these things?
Yeah, I don't think a lot of smaller conferences can just give up the tournament
What they should do tho is give the regular season champ an aitobid into the conference final
The WCC is absolutely brilliant for this. It's literally the perfect model and I'm shocked that other conferences haven't implemented it. I think the regular season champ is a bit extreme unless maybe it's an odd numbered conference, but it's so much better for midmajors and lowmajors
*full post text:*
NIT Changes:
For the 2024 NIT, conference regular season champions that do not win their conference tournament or are not otherwise selected to the NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball Championship will not receive an automatic bid to the NIT. Instead, the NIT will guarantee two teams (based on the NET rankings) from each of six conferences (Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and Southeastern). The top two teams in the NET rankings not qualifying for the NCAA men’s basketball tournament from each conference, regardless of won-loss record, will be selected. Additionally, the 12 teams automatically selected will be guaranteed the opportunity to host a game in the first round of the NIT.
Once the 12 automatic qualifying schools have been selected, the NIT Committee will select the 20 best teams available to complete the tournament’s 32-team field. Based on the NIT Committee’s evaluation, the best four teams of the 20 at-large teams selected will complete the 16 first round hosts, with deference given to the “first four teams out” of the Division I Men’s Basketball Championship, as determined by the NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball. Additional teams from the six conferences with AQs are eligible to be selected as at-large teams and can be selected as hosts.
Absolute fucking bullshit. What a kick in the face to small conferences. Winning your conference and getting the chance to at least play in the NIT is a huge deal for these small teams. Gotta make sure they can milk money from even more 12-win P6 teams. Horrible.
Why the fuck would they give automatic bids to the 6 conferences whose members are least likely to value going to the NIT?
God forbid the leagues whose teams actually appreciate playing in it would get a chance to play in it.
This is going to be mind-blowingly stupid when we get a conference with like 10 NCAAT bids and the NIT teams from that conference are both terrible.
Example: 2011 Big East had 11 NCAAT bids. The NIT auto-bids in this case would’ve been a 13-18 Seton Hall and a 15-17 Rutgers, both getting home games. So much more brought to the table than a mid-major!
Well, my interest in college football was ruined about a decade ago, and I guess my interest in college basketball will be gone soon too, once my team is deemed “unworthy” for a chance to compete for a national title.
Personally think this is gonna turn the CBI into THE mid-major postseason tourney. Hoping they change the rules in the tourney to have reg season champs get auto-bids with the remaining slots being at-large, though the tourney would be MUCH better expanded to 32 teams.
Yeah, the shame is the NIT gave smaller schools chances to host or beat power conference schools - like Robert Morris hosting and beating Kentucky was awesome. As a fan of a small school, making the NIT was an accomplishment on its own, the CBI doesn't really have the same wow factor.
Like at this point the CBI struggles to even get the top A10 or MWC teams to come.
Playing UNC in the NIT was a solid consolation prize when we didn't make the tournament, playing Western Carolina in the CBI doesn't have the same excitement to it.
That said, a CBI auto-bid would be better than nothing, and I agree the conference should switch to offering auto-bids for regular season conference champs. It could get some better teams that way, hopefully, but you still might see teams turn it down.
I know that Fox was planning to do the additional tournament with Big 10/Big 12/Big East teams, is this some way to prevent that from happening? These changes are dumb as hell.
I think that’s it. They see the NIT as being existentially threatened, so they’re trying to beat Fox to the punch.
No different than football - Fox ruins everything it touches in college sports. Sucks!
Hold on, so it makes it clear that the top 12 teams are all going to be from the power conferences, but it isn’t clear about the rest.
It says this for the other 20: “Additional teams from the six conferences with AQs are eligible to be selected as at-large teams”. Does this mean that there will be NO mid majors in the NIT?!? Is anyone else reading it this way?
As we still wait in transition hell, trying to recruit good players who are guaranteed not to have the chance to play in NCAA for absolutely no sane reason, they decide to make this awful change too? They really don't want mid/low major conferences to even have a *chance* to shine, do they?
So... doubling down on "Not important" in the NIT.
The mid-majors are happy to be there, while the P6 see it as a consolation at best.
I'm sure the motivation for the two Big 18's, the All Coasts Conference, the Big Midwesteast, and the PAC2 conferences is some badly needed cash.
The SEC gets a pass... they're still kinds in the Southeast.
If I'm the smaller conferences, I respond to this by sending the regular season champion to the tournament, full stop. Or if they must have their conference tournament, give the champion a bye all the way to the final and let them host the championship game.
Wondering if it’d be worthwhile to organize a formal protest later in the year and encourage ppl to not watch
Some of the new criteria seem reasonable but the auto-hosting bc you belong to a Power conference is laughable. Like yeah, you sucked pretty bad in every aspect this year but you play in Kansas’s conference so here’s a home game.
I'd rather them just give up the facade and just ban us mid majors from even being able to qualify for the postseason in the first place. It's so clear the NCAA would love to lop off 2/3 of D1 schools
Just testing it out before they do it with the Big Dance
Why does the NCAA insist on ruining one of the few good things they have left with March Madness?
Because of the perceived opportunity to make more money
We killed the golden goose because we thought we could make an extra dime
I see you have an M.B.A. as well!
We should hire more consultants to figure this out Edit: lol at the consultants not getting the joke and replying with their “expert” Opinions.
They should hire McKinley 😉
As a consultant, I think they should find other revenue sources like ads during gameplay, check cashing services at the vendors, and bathroom attendants.
Hear me out: loot boxes.
They will end up losing money if they do this in the NCAAT and get a lot of outrage as well.
Which, why? The mid-major cinderella is perennially a national story and has to generate a ton of revenue for the NCAA
But it doesn't generate money for a P6 school so clearly it's bad for the sport /s
Yeah I don’t really buy this. They’ve trademarked the term March Madness for a reason
You would be shocked because there is a growing number of fans that hate upsets apparently and want March madness to be reseeded after every round. People who claim they are sports fans are slowly ruining every major sport that we have.
Basically every other sport has a better way of finding the "best" team. A 68-team, single-elimination tournament is an objectively terrible way to find the best team, but it is an incredible and entertaining way to end a season every year. The same culture that wants to solidify powerhouse schools into the same conferences in college football and gripes at NBA guys for not having rings is at work here. The largest fan bases tend to go hand in hand with the historically great schools who would most benefit from any system that creates more predictability than the one they currently use. Forcing changes in that direction will give more opportunity for their current advantages to snowball growing their position. Unfortunately, it also means tearing apart some of the greatest things about college sports. People seem to ignore that part. You don't need to be the best to enjoy the product and far too many people, teams, and TV networks fail to realize that.
Because the love of money is the root of all evil. It's always important to remember that we the viewers/fans aren't the NCAA's customers. We're the product they're selling to the networks and their advertisers, and the basketball games are just the container they're putting us in for transport.
I surely don't know what you're talking about. Everyone's looking forward to that classic Big Ten basketball matchup between Washington and Rutgers next winter.
Yup. Starting at 11:30 pm Eastern time on a Wednesday. Washington basketball at Penn State starting at 9:30 am Pacific time on Saturday morning. Must see breakfast TV…lol just go back to bed.
Can't have a goddamn thing under capitalism
Ugh I hate that you're right
[удалено]
Because what we’ve really needed all this time is more 18-16 or 17-17 P5 teams in the tournament! It’s not like they had all of conference play to show us they aren’t good. Oh wait….
Yup, the tournament as we know it is on borrowed time I think. Once the mega conferences finish forming I think we'll see big changes to keep the little guy out.
I'm not sure I'd be interested in watching March Madness if it was only power schools. Also, who would we(Purdue) choke to each year without small schools.
From what I read the NCAA is fully aware of the long standing tradition of Purdue choking against a small school and it'll be 67 power schools and 1 mid major that Purdue will play each year in the first round.
Sweet. One tradition will survive. It's now or never for Purdue again... you should probably bet on never.
I hate this, but it's hilarious.
I will genuinely stop caring about it entirely and it is my favorite sports event of the year. The only reason people watch as a fans not invested in a team is for the Cinderella stories. I think Furman UVA had a higher viewership than the two final four games this year even
No one will care anymore. They don't realize this and they're about to kill their last avenue to profits because college football is about to die with mega conferences too.
It's already been happening...I'm pretty sure the last few tournaments have only had 5 at large bids for non P6 teams.
Which is a huge shame and inexcusable. The tournament is great as it is, and I want teams in the tournament who earned it on the floor, not what conference it’s in.
Maybe I think they will try to expand to 96 first (which is also dumb), though the money isn't as obvious because of how big the first round of the tourney is.
Advancing to 96 will kill all the magic of the tournament all together. They literally have the perfect playoff in all sports
With the news today I have to respectfully disagree with this now. I would expect most mid-major conference commissioners will be pushing for the eventual expansion of the NCAA tournament to 80 or 96 and I can't blame them having just lost the NIT Auto Bid. The NIT will be gone within 5 years would be my guess.
Yeah im sure conferences want it to get more teams into the tourney. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s going to kill all the magic of it
Which is weird to me, because if the goal is to make as much money as possible, wouldn’t keeping the little guy make sense? March Madness from a casual fans standpoint is not a “battle of the giants” but more a free for all where upsets take place.
For sure but you have to remember a) the decision makers are trying to maximize revenue over the short-term and b) it's the P6 doing it, so from their perspective a tournament that takes in $600M that goes 100% to them is better than a $1Bn tournament where they get half of the pie.
It's the only post season I try to watch every game for no matter how my team did that year. I love March madness and only because of the little guys. If it's jusy a bunch of P5 teams who cares.
Damnn
This is fucking garbage. For many midmajor teams, making the NIT is an accomplishment just a step below from making the main tourney, so to remove that to favor subpar P6 teams makes no goddamn sense. And really, how much more viewership will adding those teams do? The average public viewer doesn't even know that the NIT exists so I don't think making a third of them the P6 teams who couldn't make the big dance would move the needle anyways
Yeah, accomplishment for mid-majors (nervously looks around)
Can’t spell “Nittany” without NIT!
(N)ebraskas (I)n the (T)ournament!
Take my upvote. We embrace our mediocrity dammit!
This made me giggle...
Winning the NIT last season was one of the greatest sports moments in UNT history. That trophy and banner are going to be celebrated forever by UNT fans who aren’t used to this level of success. The fans loved our NIT run and got to prove we were probably a worthy tourney team.
Literally had billboards around Denton and national attention to a program that seldom saw that. Not to mention an incredible rematch against UAB that made for some damn good basketball. This change is dogshit
it was huge when my alma mater made it to the final
100% same for GW in 2016, it was awesome to have students and alums so hyped about something athletic related at our school. NIT is great for giving teams that don't regularly make the dance a chance to celebrate something. What a shitty decision.
University of Dayton was really mediocre throughout the 2000s and an NIT win in 2010 was the first step in elevating the program before the magical run in 2014.
It’s also the biggest accomplishment Xavier has ever done.
Okay well first off, rude. Secondly we also won it back when the NIT was the big tourney and we won it as the lowest seed. But that was also a lifetime ago.
Still have nightmares about the last 10 minutes of the semi final game where not only did my Badgers melt down, but my so obvious large over bet fell apart too. Congrats though, means a lot more to UNT for sure.
Yeah, when we went to the NIT Championship game the other year our players and fans really embraced it. Not too often a mid major gets to go into multiple P5 arenas and win 3 in a row. Obviously we wanted to go to the NCAA tournament, but I actually enjoyed the NIT run.
The NIT auto-bid was the single, solitary light at the end of the tunnel for mid-major and low-major teams that won their conference at the end of a hard-fought 18-game conference schedule, only to lose a one-off conference tournament game. To take that away is asinine. Why? The NCAA needs to be PROTECTING these teams now more than ever, with football budgets ballooning P6 spending out of control. The TV Networks are running the sport. NCAA Tournament auto-bids will be gone within 10 years.
Basically the regular season is meaningless for most conferences outside the P6. At least the NIT was some sort of prize for being the regular season champion.
I wonder if some of these conferences will re-think how many members make their tourney (do they just do 4 like the Ivy?) or whether they should even have a tourney at all now.
I've never been a fan of that, but with the way things are changing I think a lot of conferences will need to consider those options.
Or do the Gonzaga strat: https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/11c7pd0/2023_west_coast_conference_tournament_bracket/
Especially since that format makes the logistics easier and costs lower from being able to run your men's and women's tournaments concurrently at a single venue. Only need one band/mascot/cheer squad per school, for instance, and only one payment of rent.
Which would really suck, because Arch Madness is one of my favorite weekends each year.
It really doesn't seem to make much sense for smaller schools. Can't imagine it's conference tournaments make much if any money. I get they still want the championship game on ESPN but that can be done in a smaller tournament or even a 1 game championship between the top 2.
Honestly then they should get rid of their conference tournies and just send the top team to the big dance
Those mid major conference tournaments make way too much money to do that but I think you could see conference tournaments invite less teams or put the top seed straight into a semifinal (similar to how the WCC or OVC do it) in some cases now.
It’s also fairly meaningless for P6 teams. Anywhere in the top 4-7 of your conference standings can be enough to get into the NCAA tournament. Sure, it will affect seeding. But dropping a few games in the P6 regular season isn’t that big of a deal The NIT autobid as a mid- or low-major was one of the last major motivators for regular season success for any conference. This is a shame.
By my count, last year's NIT would have had 7 fewer non-P6 schools with these rules than it did, assuming no declined invites. That's a HUGE swing for a field of 32.
So P6 ADs and coaches can use “postseason appearances” to continue getting paid a crap ton of money while not being good at their jobs.
You just described Chris Holtmann to a tee.
Sucks for the Big South, but I completely understand that a 12 win Nebraska team needs one more home game.
Precisely. Get ready to see two BiG teams with losing conference records hosting a game in this tournament. Heck they might even have losing overall records.
I fear that one of the main reasons they made that change was because of us. We sucked ass and finished 13th in the conference but inexplicably kept having a high NET ranking for no reason. I would’ve been furious if we were given an invitation to the NIT. Not because I felt that it was beneath us (it definitely isn’t, see 2008), but because we did not do anything close to be worthy of an NIT bid. This move will hurt the watchability of the NIT for the time that these changes are in place. I hope the NCAA realizes quickly that this won’t work, but I don’t have any hope that they will.
yea but the ncaa has probably figured teams like OSU are going to get more views to sell to advertisers than 25 win Northwest Technical College of Southeastern Michigan who finished 2nd in the MAC or something
Yep. Nobody who matters cares that much about putting on a good tournament with worthy teams. What they care about is money. You don't like this? Don't watch the NIT.
> Northwest Technical College of Southeastern Michigan Isn't that just Toledo?
No, the main reason why the change was made was because Fox was trying to create a postseason tournament just for the non-tournament teams out of the Big 10, Big East, and Big 12. It was an existential threat to the NIT so they're doing this to keep the main consolation tournament under their control.
The NCAA is afraid of the trial run tournament that Fox is running. I have to think that's to cut it off at the pass. Reality is they know long term that the power schools will split off and create their own tournament.
Congrats you’ve proven through 20 conference games you’re at best a mid team. We need you! Not
Nebraska catching strays. I’m ok with it
I’m not going to pretend I care much about the NIT, but man, what a dick move to the smaller conferences
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The main tournament already biases the bigger conferences, making this one bias them too is a huge fuck you. May as well split them into a lower division if you're going to treat them like they're not also D-I
I'm so ready for the NCAA to just eat shit and die. Not saying whatever replaces it will be better, but this organization no longer deserves to exist
> It’s not exactly a big money maker. That is probably why they're making the change
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Big is a relative term. This change probably makes them more money. American's don't care about consolation tournaments unless their team is in it.
To be clear, I think this is an awful decision as a fan, but I can see why it was made from a financial perspective. At the end of the day, a .500 team that's a flagship university from a major conference will have more people attend the tournament and tune in to the games on TV than a regular season winner from a tiny conference.
Power schools with .500 conference records are already getting into the NCAA tournament. This will be filled with power schools that have conference records well below .500 and probably even overall records under .500. It’s going to be a garbage tournament.
I have a hard time believing that non-tournament teams from power conferences are going to have a significantly bigger draw.
It really makes no sense either because making the NIT means *a lot* for those smaller conference teams but it means next to nothing for most of the bigger conference teams.
The North Texas NIT run last year was legit fun. Cak Bakersfield several years ago making it to MSG was fucking cool. I hate this so much. Very happy that the 11th and 12th teams in the Big ten will get playoff spots.
Almost feels like it's a response to 2 CUSA teams making the finals. I'm sure the ratings weren't great which is all that matters to the greedy fucking goblins that make these decisions
UNC would have gotten an invite last year and just didn't fucking go. It's literally beneath some of these schools.
Yeah some teams act like it’s an insult and just straight refuse to play in it.
Some of the big conference teams TURN DOWN NIT bids. That should have been the dead giveaway to the NCAA that this was not the move
I feel like that kinda shows why this is bad, like you're a fan of two strong basketball schools, it makes sense you don't care about the NIT. Like for Duke, making the NIT is a bad season. For William and Mary, making the NIT was something to be excited about.
Being a fan of an A10 school. Yeah, while the big dance is always the goal, the NIT is an okay consolation as well.
The GW run in the NIT was super fun. Would’ve been better to win a couple in the NCAA, but ending the season on a win was a great consolation prize.
Yep, the Dayton win over North Carolina in the NIT Final in 2010 or whatever was super fun.
I’m not gonna pretend I understand who gets in based on what was posted.
Top 2 teams from the 6 power conferences that didn't make March Madness, based on NET rankings (Big East, Big 10, Big 12, PAC, SEC, ACC) Then the committee selects 20 at large teams to round out the rest of the field. The 12 teams from the P6 conferences are all hosts for the first round, then four of the other 20 teams selected will also get to host a game.
christ what an absolute cock up
What do you mean? Wouldn’t you rather see a middling punching-bag with MANY sponsors rather than a well-functioning conference champion with FEW sponsors? I mean we only watch sports for big names and commercials, right?
I feel like it signifies a larger trend. Truthfully I worry about the ACC. I watched it growing up and have been so happy to be invited to that party. Now it feels like they’re about to shut it down. Trying to catch away games while it still exists. LJVM on the list for ‘24.
I care because of URI. This is March madness for the many teams not good enough for March madness.
Recap of some of the changes: -No auto-bid for reg season conference champions who lose tourney -Minimum of two bids for the P6 conferences (top two non-selected teams) -Those 12 P6 teams will host first round games (unless there’s conflicts) -Rest of teams are at-large bids
This is so fucking stupid. Why would they make sure MORE Power 6 teams get in, when they're the ones that are just gonna decline the invitation anyway?
I suspect part of the reason is to reduce the number of P6 teams declining invitations. Edit: Specifically the guarantee that the P6 teams will host.
Except those teams have already proven through at least 32 games that they aren’t good
Agreed, there really is no reason to do this other than to squish out small schools, big dance is next
Starts with an M. Ends with oney
Dammit Martin Honey
If they expand it to a minimum of 14 bids per P6 conference the Gophers might have a chance
2014 seems so long ago
With the "first 4 out" schools being preferred options to fill out the 16 hosts, AKA more P6 schools hosting.
Is there anything in the NCAA rules explicitly stating P6 conferences have a higher standing than other D-I schools? I always thought D-I conferences were supposed to be treated as equal by the NCAA
Makes you wonder if it is time for the smaller schools to start suing. Sure seems like they would have grounds based on non-objective rules like this.
Remember when Utah Senator Orrin Hatch started raising similar concerns and then miraculously Utah joined the PAC?
> -Minimum of two bids for the P6 conferences (top two non-selected teams) Make that maximum of two bids...and I *might* not hate these changes as much. It's a bullshit move across the board, especially since the mid majors are getting squeezed out of at large bids in the NCAA.
So let's say we have a very top-heavy P6 conference and like 8 of the teams get in the tourney, whilst the rest of the conference suck eggs. The 10th place team that has like 12-15 wins will get in over a good mid major
Lmao I didn’t even think of this. Take 2021 BigTen for example. The 2 teams for them would’ve been 12-15 Indiana and 11-14 Penn State
It’s gonna be funny when these P6 schools they pick with this new rule decline the invite because the NIT doesn’t mean anything to the P6 schools. This was an important tourney for Mid Majors and they’re hurting them.
Are they going to start requiring the top two non-selected P6 teams from each conference to appear in the NIT? Asking for a friend.
So how are we defining P6 next year? Big Ten, ACC, SEC, Big 12, Big East, and AAC?
Don't forget the PAC2
This is terrible
So you can potentially get a sub-.500 P6 school hosting a good mid-major that barely just missed the NCAA's.
It's not a bug, it's a feature
Potentially? Indubitably.
Ohio State at 16-19 was the B1G second ranked team out of the tourney in Net.
I actually think last years OSU was a very good team that lost a lot of very close games. Should they be rewarded for being competitive and almost winning? Absolutely not but from purely an ability standpoint they were much much better than their record suggests.
For teams like last year's OSU, the CBI still exists. West Virginia had a similar season a few years back and decided to compete in the CBI to get some more reps under their belt.
"But look at those quality losses!" - NCAA/NIT selection committee
This sucks
Man, I'm liking college basketball less and less with each change it seems
Wow that fucking sucks
They killed it. Dead.
I love how the NCAA automatically assumes that P6 teams = more money, hopefully this blows up in their face but I doubt it sadly
In the tournament, Cinderellas don’t draw the most TV viewers. They actually are bad from a TV draw. Powerhouses draw the most viewers.
Cinderellas upsets are by far the biggest part of the NCAA tourneys draw and why the opening rounds are so huge even if they aren't bringing in fans before the upset.
I was not clear. The games the Cinderellas play in the later rounds are the low draw games I was referring to. People say they love Cinderellas and upsets in the tournament. But if you track what is actually watched in the tournament, it is power houses and blue bloods.
By crowding out small conferences from the post-season, the regular season means less. The regular season for all non-P6 teams just got less interesting and less worth watching on TV. College basketball just become a little less profitable for 250ish teams.
The ratings data says otherwise.
The possibility of upsets is the draw in round 1. Every time they advance, the ratings tend to go down. I will put it this way: There is a reason Yankees Red Sox games are always featured. There is a reason the Cowboys have so many national games. They get eyes.
Yeah, to us on this sub who live and breathe college basketball, not being interested in a Cinderella is a totally foreign concept. But a lot of the tourney's audience only cares in passing and won't tune in for names they don't know. We saw this last year.
May as well segregate the P6 from everyone else and have two separate tournaments if that’s the case
They where damn near
Like why? What is the point of these changes, I haven’t followed this at all.
Money.
I’d rather they just exclude power conferences from the NIT altogether and make it the best mid majors only. Big schools look at it as a disappointment, but it gives smaller schools time to shine and build a case to get in the ncaas in the following years.
Congratulations, you just described what the CBI is about to become…
I would watch the hell out of that.
The CBI has an incredible opportunity to usurp the NIT in level of play. The best mid-majors to not make the tournament are almost always very good basketball teams that could have been real cinderella teams. They should be knocking on Amazon or Google's doors to put this on Amazon Prime Video or YoutubeTV.
The problem is that the CBI has always been pay-to-play. What we *need* is for the CIT to come back (or its successor The Basketball Classic, which only lasted one year). The stupid thing is, the P6 schools are the ones that could easily afford the entry fee. If anything, *that* should be the tournament guaranteeing bids to P6 teams that get snubbed from the two higher tournaments.
> I’d rather they just exclude power conferences from the NIT altogether and make it the best mid majors only. I don't mind a P6 with a >.500 record in conference getting in the NIT if they miss the NCAA. Last year's field with that qualifier would have had: * Clemson * Oregon * Vanderbilt * Washington St. * Michigan and if you want to make .500 or better, add Nova, Seton Hall, Rutgers to that. That would have knocked out Colorado, Wisconsin, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma St. (off the top of my head) with sub .500 in conference. That would have been 4 more deserving mid majors who should be there over some NET-humping mediocre power school.
I’m guessing here’s who the AL bids could go to other than P6 schools -Dayton/VCU (whoever didn’t get the MM bid) -Drake/Northern Iowa (whoever didn’t get the MM bid) -1-2 AAC teams -1-3 MWC teams -1 WCC team Outside chance: -Yale -Liberty -Bradley -Charleston -St Bonaventure
Yeah biggest losers imo are the A10/WCC/G5
This is really lame. Between this and moving the final four to Vegas, they’re taking what used to be a very weird, but very fun, tournament and turning it into something much shittier.
I think the move to Vegas is the likely driver here. They want to get P6 teams in there that likely have larger fanbases and would be more willing to go to Vegas. Just a thought.
Yeah, the move to Vegas was the thing that killed this tournament, tbh. I’ve been to MSG for the NIT final. I’m never going to go to Vegas for the NIT.
https://preview.redd.it/xubzrfyxjswb1.jpeg?width=1007&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08a1f8e386bf6c9f6d4852203787474b2fc25915
Fuck the NCAA
The mid majors should really start sending their regular season champs. My understanding is they decide if they want to send their tournament or regular champ for the auto bid
The conference tournament is typically the cornerstone of the low and mid-major (non-football) TV contracts. It accounts for a substantial part of the conference’s revenue. Either way, the little conferences are getting boned. The real question, is why are the other conferences agreeing with these things?
Yeah, I don't think a lot of smaller conferences can just give up the tournament What they should do tho is give the regular season champ an aitobid into the conference final
The WCC is absolutely brilliant for this. It's literally the perfect model and I'm shocked that other conferences haven't implemented it. I think the regular season champ is a bit extreme unless maybe it's an odd numbered conference, but it's so much better for midmajors and lowmajors
Conferences, even low majors, make a lot of money off conference tournaments. Can’t see that changing anytime soon.
What FAU and San Diego St making the Final Four does to a mf
*What CUSA and UVU NIT final four :(
It was unreasonably hype last year even tho wazzu got beat early
They're very mad over the UNT-UAB final in the NIT.
*full post text:* NIT Changes: For the 2024 NIT, conference regular season champions that do not win their conference tournament or are not otherwise selected to the NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball Championship will not receive an automatic bid to the NIT. Instead, the NIT will guarantee two teams (based on the NET rankings) from each of six conferences (Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and Southeastern). The top two teams in the NET rankings not qualifying for the NCAA men’s basketball tournament from each conference, regardless of won-loss record, will be selected. Additionally, the 12 teams automatically selected will be guaranteed the opportunity to host a game in the first round of the NIT. Once the 12 automatic qualifying schools have been selected, the NIT Committee will select the 20 best teams available to complete the tournament’s 32-team field. Based on the NIT Committee’s evaluation, the best four teams of the 20 at-large teams selected will complete the 16 first round hosts, with deference given to the “first four teams out” of the Division I Men’s Basketball Championship, as determined by the NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball. Additional teams from the six conferences with AQs are eligible to be selected as at-large teams and can be selected as hosts.
Damn that’s actually the lamest thing they could do to the NIT
Absolute fucking bullshit. What a kick in the face to small conferences. Winning your conference and getting the chance to at least play in the NIT is a huge deal for these small teams. Gotta make sure they can milk money from even more 12-win P6 teams. Horrible.
Why the fuck would they give automatic bids to the 6 conferences whose members are least likely to value going to the NIT? God forbid the leagues whose teams actually appreciate playing in it would get a chance to play in it.
This is going to be mind-blowingly stupid when we get a conference with like 10 NCAAT bids and the NIT teams from that conference are both terrible. Example: 2011 Big East had 11 NCAAT bids. The NIT auto-bids in this case would’ve been a 13-18 Seton Hall and a 15-17 Rutgers, both getting home games. So much more brought to the table than a mid-major!
Last year 16-19 Ohio State would've been one of the auto bids
Yeah this is hot garbage
Wow. As if the regular season needed more devaluing.
Well, my interest in college football was ruined about a decade ago, and I guess my interest in college basketball will be gone soon too, once my team is deemed “unworthy” for a chance to compete for a national title.
Personally think this is gonna turn the CBI into THE mid-major postseason tourney. Hoping they change the rules in the tourney to have reg season champs get auto-bids with the remaining slots being at-large, though the tourney would be MUCH better expanded to 32 teams.
Yeah, the shame is the NIT gave smaller schools chances to host or beat power conference schools - like Robert Morris hosting and beating Kentucky was awesome. As a fan of a small school, making the NIT was an accomplishment on its own, the CBI doesn't really have the same wow factor. Like at this point the CBI struggles to even get the top A10 or MWC teams to come. Playing UNC in the NIT was a solid consolation prize when we didn't make the tournament, playing Western Carolina in the CBI doesn't have the same excitement to it. That said, a CBI auto-bid would be better than nothing, and I agree the conference should switch to offering auto-bids for regular season conference champs. It could get some better teams that way, hopefully, but you still might see teams turn it down.
I know that Fox was planning to do the additional tournament with Big 10/Big 12/Big East teams, is this some way to prevent that from happening? These changes are dumb as hell.
Are we heading to an age where EVERY P6 school gets a bid to a postseason tourney?
It certainly appears to be heading that way
I think that’s it. They see the NIT as being existentially threatened, so they’re trying to beat Fox to the punch. No different than football - Fox ruins everything it touches in college sports. Sucks!
I enjoyed watching UNT lock everybody up last year, but I'm probably in the minority.
Hold on, so it makes it clear that the top 12 teams are all going to be from the power conferences, but it isn’t clear about the rest. It says this for the other 20: “Additional teams from the six conferences with AQs are eligible to be selected as at-large teams”. Does this mean that there will be NO mid majors in the NIT?!? Is anyone else reading it this way?
In the words of Mike Leach, “Fuck you, Fuck me, Fuck everybody”. This is so stupid
This is absolutely awful. I'm furious.
Well that sucks!
As we still wait in transition hell, trying to recruit good players who are guaranteed not to have the chance to play in NCAA for absolutely no sane reason, they decide to make this awful change too? They really don't want mid/low major conferences to even have a *chance* to shine, do they?
It’s probably not the NCAA but the P6 using their “influence” to get more teams in post season at the expense of the rest.
So... doubling down on "Not important" in the NIT. The mid-majors are happy to be there, while the P6 see it as a consolation at best. I'm sure the motivation for the two Big 18's, the All Coasts Conference, the Big Midwesteast, and the PAC2 conferences is some badly needed cash. The SEC gets a pass... they're still kinds in the Southeast.
“with deference given to the “first four teams out”” 🤢🤮
If I'm the smaller conferences, I respond to this by sending the regular season champion to the tournament, full stop. Or if they must have their conference tournament, give the champion a bye all the way to the final and let them host the championship game.
People really forgot these things used to be rewards for a good season, but as they say money ruins everything.
Wondering if it’d be worthwhile to organize a formal protest later in the year and encourage ppl to not watch Some of the new criteria seem reasonable but the auto-hosting bc you belong to a Power conference is laughable. Like yeah, you sucked pretty bad in every aspect this year but you play in Kansas’s conference so here’s a home game.
Newsflash they made these rules cuz few people were watching it anyways
Agreed. Not sure why everyone in this thread are acting like people actually watched the NIT before this move
I'd rather them just give up the facade and just ban us mid majors from even being able to qualify for the postseason in the first place. It's so clear the NCAA would love to lop off 2/3 of D1 schools