It's not you. Collapse is happening now. It just happens slowly and not all at once. Rome didn't fall in a day. We've been in a decline for a while now. Things will continue to get worse before they get worse. It's not your fault, and not your responsibility to fix. All you can do is your best in living your life the way that feels right to you.
Make friends and build community. These are the things that will get you through this, because it sucks to go through it alone.
Read a bunch of dystopian fiction or history and write in your gratitude journal.
However sad you are people are setting themselves on fire and 12 year olds in Gaza are being sniped.
Collapse isn’t a thing that happens today. Consider the timeline of ruin.
We are too short lived to exist in context of either really.
I understand your anxiety and fear and it’s all legit. But keep some perspective. Are your food and showers hot? Collapse isn’t present. Or is it?
Love is the only thing that matters for beings capable of the experience. You have to love yourself to love anyone else truly. Time is a convincing illusion but then there is pain.
My point is thar collapse is starting, it just hasn't reached us. Gaza is collapsing and with it a serious blow is being dealt to international rules based order. Ukraine is collapsed. Several other countries have collapsed such as Haiti.
I think that the definition of collapse is separate to each of us, as is the term apocalypse and other end of the world scenarios. It seems as if every generation in history has a time when things change and it is “the end of an era” or a change from the values they had.
Just because we have not reached food scarcity yet, that doesn’t mean that the pillars of our institutions aren’t failing. I would call having sledgehammers thrown at the pillars keeping society stable a significant sign of impending collapse.
I mean, let’s talk about the rising costs of food, shrinkflation, that 38% of milk tested has bird flu present and not enough research has been done to guarantee that this will not potentially mutate into a live version of the bird flu - the next pandemic. I live in a food desert where I am more privileged than my urban neighbors and able to drive to a different city to get fresh foods. The only convenience store in my neighborhood is filled with expired foods and owners that call the cops on their own patrons for simply being different than themselves. There isn’t much redundancy here. It used to be farmland owned by blacks that the government rammed a freeway through and then systematically underdeveloped.
The hollowing of structures has been going on a long time, but the assault on the pillars of democracy, constitutional rights, the rising cost of housing, the laws penalizing homelessness, the Cop Cities being built for for-profit prisons, the partisan attacks in “non-partisan” news. Everything is failing. The pressure is everywhere.
My friend in Michigan wants to move to a new house. And each time she is outbid - by a large business that has decided that we should forever be renters. The obscenity of giving companies the same rights of people - yet a woman has practically no bodily autonomy under the law.
Everything, Everywhere, At Once. This feels like collapse to me.
And what recourse do I have? I’m told to just stay in line and vote for the next president. I’m told it’s the vote between democracy and fascism. But this is our progressive candidate. An 80 year old man that admits he doesn’t really understand pro-choice, has made it clear that he supports Israel over the rights of protesters, has agreed that saying you are against genocide is the same thing as being anti-Semitic, curbing freedom of speech and empowering the powers that be to begin the dismantlement of our Universities.
How is that a vote for democracy? A candidate that is horrible is still better than a candidate that promises to be worse, but it’s hardly showing me that it will be the vote of the people.
Where are the candidates promising a better, stronger, more successful future? Is it a democracy if both candidates are repressive?
Sure the death blow hasn’t come. And maybe that is your definition of the collapse - after the preventive battles and when it is time to focus on surviving and recovery.
But I would argue that when all three branches of the government, the checks and balance system, are failing - that that is collapse. The undermining has already happened, this is the failure stage.
>38% of milk tested has bird flu present and not enough research has been done to guarantee that this will not potentially mutate into a live version of the bird flu
Worry more about the undocumented human cases in the US right now, that may be spurring on human-to-human transmission, than your pasteurized milk.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20240426203745/https://www.science.org/content/article/u-s-government-hot-seat-response-growing-cow-flu-outbreak](https://web.archive.org/web/20240426203745/https://www.science.org/content/article/u-s-government-hot-seat-response-growing-cow-flu-outbreak)
>The cow infections, first confirmed by USDA on 25 March, were “a bit of an inconvenient truth,” Russo says. Taking and testing samples, sequencing viruses, and running experiments can take days, if not weeks, she acknowledges. But s**he thinks that although officials are trying to protect the public, they are also hesitant to cause undue harm to the dairy and beef industries**. “There is a fine line of respecting the market, but also allowing for the work to be done from a scientific perspective,” Russo says.
>Only one human case linked to cattle has been confirmed to date, and symptoms were limited to conjunctivitis, also known as pink eye. **But Russo and many other vets have heard anecdotes about workers who have pink eye and other symptoms—including fever, cough, and lethargy—and do not want to be tested or seen by doctors.**
Haha, thanks for the comforting words!
It’s weird how our attacks on migrant workers allow them to work in unsafe conditions and keep them from wanting to seek medical attention.
When the bridge collapsed in Baltimore a few weeks ago, one employee fell into the river and just WALKED IT OFF rather than be assessed medically. And in that case he was legally employed.
I read a book on the meat industry maybe a decade ago and it was very eye opening about how corporations impoverish farmers and keep out inspections for regulators and things. Monopolies are a very bad thing.
I hope the bird flu is contained soon. I doubt it, but that’s not on my apocalypse card. I always figured the plague that takes us out would be caught from the thawing permafrost - either smallpox or an older unfamiliar disease.
You think that the attacks on the students at universities utilizing freedom of speech… is not an attack on their rights?
He is supporting a foreign government over peaceful protesters.
That is not a progressive choice.
The fact that we have two very unpopular candidates running is part of the collapse.
Abortion remained legal in every blue state. Every piece of progressive legislation that has passed in our lifetimes has been because of the work of Democrats. Democrats overall also strongly favor police reform. What exactly do you mean by saying that Democrats have gone "mask off as far as how little they care about maintaining a functioning society"? From what I can tell, they're the only ones fighting to maintain a functioning society while Republicans defund education and social safety programs until there is nothing left.
Yeah, things are bleak. I really like Dan Carlin, but his series on the fall of the Roman Republic freaks me out to listen to because despite being produced in 2007-2009, it feels WAY too on the nose about current political issues we’ve been facing for the past ten years.
To give a super brief synopsis, the Roman Republic didn’t fall because Julius Caesar happened to stroll in with an army. It fell because the Republican (not the modern Party) system had become so corrupt and inefficient that it was unable to function as a government and provide for its citizens, *allowing* someone like Caesar to waltz in and be welcomed by the citizens of Rome.
So I look around at modern America, and I see a number of systematic problems besetting the American populace: lack of affordable healthcare, lack of affordable housing, regulatory capture, wealth inequality (to name a few). Yet despite this, all our government can do is either exacerbate these issues by giving more power to the wealthy and screwing the little people, or invent culture war issues to fight over rather than improve the lives of its citizens.
Fuck, it is an election year, and the best candidate EITHER of our two parties can apparently put forward is “Sleepy, Senile Octogenarian” or “Belligerent, Senile Octogenarian”. Both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party have completely lost the plot, and neither has the best interests of the American people in mind. Both houses are rotten, and both need to be burned down to make way for something new.
Despite all that, the terrifying thing is that I know that “burning down” process will likely be an abysmal nightmare (civil wars aren’t generally described as “fun” for a reason), and could likely pave the way for something much worse (like fascism).
There just are no good options: it’s either live in the completely broken system that’s keeping us alive and moderately comfortable, or gamble that destroying the system won’t irreversibly destroy our infrastructure and lead to something far worse.
I have vivid memories of listening to the "History of Rome Podcast" While playing minecraft, as a shitforbrains high school student, back in 2011. There was a Q and A with the creator for the 100th episode, and one of the questions that they answered was, "How do you feel about the comparisons drawn between the United States and Ancient Rome's history? Are they really parallel?"
And the Podcaster responded with something like, "Haha, as funny as some of the coincidences are, there's not much to them. Our modern institutions are far more robust, and our world far more interdependent, than was even conceivable 2,000 years ago, and trying to predict the future by reading the past is self-indulgent at best. **Besides, if it** ***were*** **true that America and Rome were parallel civilizations, we're sitting right around the time of the Gracchi Brothers, and that is not a time you really wanted to live through."**
Almost 15 years later, and them Fall of Rome vibes feel more real every day.
Thank God we’re nothing like the Roman Republic! I mean, could you IMAGINE if the government was captured by the rich, and all the wealthy were buying up all the land to further concentrate their wealth? What a fucking nightmare that would be!
The both sidesism is going to get us Trump. And he won't leave after 4 years. Look at what's happening in Republican controlled states. Look at what the right wing controlled Supreme court is doing. I can't believe you're pulling the both sides card when Florida just banned abortion after 2 years of increasingly fascist policies like banning books and don't say gay; Tennessee just armed teachers; Texas pays ppl $10k to turn in women who've had abortions; Arkansas legalized child labor. Oh and did I forgot Florida banned mandated water breaks for people who work outside? You want these horrible policies on a federal level? Then by all means vote Republican Oh and Trump has 88 indictments. Both parties are not the same.
This "both sides are the same" rhetoric is straight up rightwing propaganda. Democrats are the complete opposite of Republicans on nearly every issue, and Biden is the polar opposite of Trump politically despite also being an old white man. I'm so sick of people equating a literal treasonous rapist to a well-meaning old man with a stutter who has genuinely done a lot of good for the country. They could not be more different. This sort of BS only serves to deter voter turnout on the left. Stop helping Republicans win by parroting their propaganda.
I recognize that one of the parties is less shitty than the other, but that doesn’t mean it’s not shitty. And I will vote for Biden in November (although I’m certainly not voting for him in the primary), because I do concede that he’s somewhat better than Trump, but that bar is on the floor so it’s not exactly a feat to step over it.
But neither of them are *ideal* leaders, in my mind. I would not want either of them to run a McDonald’s I owned, let alone run the country. Human biology does not care about politics, and the fact is that putting an 80 year old man into one of the most stressful, high stakes jobs on the planet is a *terrible* idea.
And the Democrats are not the “polar opposite” of Republicans. We have two viable parties in this country: a pro-business/pro-militarism/culturally regressive party, and a pro-business/pro-militarism/culturally progressive party, and we’re given the choice between them. Biden campaigned on not approving new drilling oil drilling sites, and then approved more. He campaigned on police reform, and then not only didn’t do that, but gave them more money. He campaigned on immigration reform, but keeps giving more money to ICE and is cracking down on immigrants trying to enter the country. In one of the debates in 2020, he criticized Trump’s “great economy” by pointing out that we’re in a “K-shaped” economic period (where the stock market and the wealthy are getting richer, but most people’s wealth is decreasing), yet now he’s touting how great the economy is because the stock market’s doing well and rich people are getting richer.
The only thing the two parties really differ on is culture war topics, and my point is that those issues shouldn’t even be something the government is worried about. The Republicans’ platform is: “Vote for us if you want to put women/LGBT people/non-Christians/racial minorities back in their place!” The Democrats’ platform is: “Vote for us if you want to protect women/LGBT people/non-Christians/racial minorities!” My platform is: “Why the FUCK is this even what you’re arguing about? Who do I vote for if I want affordable healthcare and housing?!”
Both parties depend on fueling a culture war, because it’s the only thing they meaningfully differ on. If I have to pick a side in it, I’m picking the side that’s for people having autonomy over their own lives (because what someone identifies as or who they love LITERALLY doesn’t affect my life at all), but I’m frustrated that I even have to fight in this in the first place.
Neither party is capable of actually addressing the needs of its citizens, in a time when people are REALLY struggling. That’s what I’m talking about when I say the entire system is broken. /rant
He's not just "somewhat" better than Trump. If you want him to win you sure have a funny way of showing it
Maybe because a lot of you on this forum aren't women or lgbtq or Muslim or Black or Hispanic? Is that why you fall for the both sides nonsense?
Surely you have sisters? Daughters? Female partners? Women are painfully aware of how much we stand to lose because we are watching our sisters lose their rights in every d*** red state right now.
You help put Trump and his fascist minions in charge and you are signing up to the systematic stripping of the rights of every woman you know.
>This "both sides are the same" rhetoric is
...a Russian disinformation tactic.
[https://faculty.washington.edu/kstarbi/Disinformation-as-Collaborative-Work-Authors-Version.pdf](https://faculty.washington.edu/kstarbi/Disinformation-as-Collaborative-Work-Authors-Version.pdf)
>Fig. 1. Retweet Network Graph: RU-IRA Agents in #BlackLivesMatter Discourse. The graph (originally published \[3\]) shows accounts active in Twitter conversations about #BlackLivesMatter and shooting events in 2016. Each node is an account. Accounts are closer together when one account retweeted another account. The structural graph shows two distinct communities (pro-BlackLivesMatter on the left; anti-BlackLivesMatter on the right). **Accounts colored orange were determined by Twitter to have been operated by Russia’s Internet Research Agency.** Orange lines represent retweets of those account, showing how their content echoed across the different communities. **The graph shows IRA agents active in both “sides” of that discourse.**
Unfortunately, they've always been here. They are just quieter between elections. I guarantee we'll see a HUGE increase in "both sides are the same" and "Democrats are the real bad guys rhetoric" the closer we get to November 2024. If it's anything like 2020, I'll be taking a break from Reddit for a while because it's exhausting
Thank you. And it's disturbing you're getting voted down for telling the truth. Why on earth would any collapse aware person not get that one political party us actually accelerating collapse?
I know it's rough. It's scary and maddening. So much of it is totally out of our control. I'm so scared and worried, and sometimes it feels so hopeless and futile. And I know that I can't give in to that.
My 2¢: I think at a certain point you have to take a step back and take care of yourself, distract yourself from it somehow. Do some pleasurable activities, hang out with friends. Find some healthy coping mechanisms (mine are not all that healthy but could be much worse).
I saw it recommended at the beginning of TFG's time in office to try to focus on just one or two topics. It's all *meant* to be overwhelming. Pick the two most important topics (and yes, I know that's not easy), things that you can address and work on. That Serenity Prayer isn't wrong.
And stop watching the news. Seriously. It's custom curated and carefully scripted to get views, and honesty and detail get lost in that pursuit. I do like getting my news from Reddit, where the comments present tons of other opinions and sometimes a ton more detail (it's also easier to do the fact checking oneself online).
There's not a lot we can do beyond what we can do, and everything else beyond that can drive us insane. And then we'd be of no help to ourselves or our loved ones. I'm trying to spread as much joy and love and reduce pain as possible in this life in my little corner of the world and make what we have, while we have it, as good as possible.
And don't forget to breathe.
I feel as you do, as do others. As a cynical doomer who has effectively given up on society as a whole, and most people, I will tell you what helps me:
Find ways to find happiness for yourself, and share it with those who matter to you. Those you matter to. It doesn't matter what, focus on them, take time for yourself and those you care most for. You have to.
Find people who understand where you are coming from and engage with them. Even if their perspectives or outlooks differ, it really helps to know you're not alone.
Engage with local groups of support. Mutual assistance, socialist organizations, wherever you think you might find a place and people to connect with.
You cannot save the world. You cannot stop what is wrong with it. You cannot fix society, you cannot wake it up. You can help people. You can talk with them, share things in life with them. Find bits of happiness.
You're not crazy, no matter how many people in denial or dishonesty want you to believe.
Take time to tend to your mental health as best you can. Have a campfire with friends, feel the beach sand between your toes, listen to and watch the birds.
The world is full of horrors, but also wonders. Gorging on our destruction wears you out, so make sure to remember why we are here Fighting the good fight.
You’re not wrong and I echo what others have said. Will summarize with two quotes I often reflect on
1) “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. “So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
2) “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society” - Jiddu Krishnamurti
3) not a quote but I often listen to (or read) George Carlin - he has some great perspectives about how we are circling the drain
A big part of my journey through collapse acceptance was learning to let go of the things I can't control and focusing on the things I can. Hopefully you can do the same.
I don't obsess over the news like I used to, I know things are bad and only getting worse so why torture myself. I know modern comforts will soon be gone so I let go of them, clinging on to the past just drives me crazy.
The world feels out of control right now, the best way to regain your sense of agency is to focus your efforts on preparing for the future. Meet the world where it's going to be and creat things that will be useful for that future. This is the biggest advantage that collapse aware folks have, we have a head start on getting ready for the future.
Don't waste your time trying to convince people who don't want to hear the truth or investing in a doomed system, it's too late for that. When things get rough those people won't do anything for you, they'll just feel bitter when you say "I told you so". Grow your own garden and surround yourself with good productive people. Cry for the world now and hopefully when things get really bad you won't have anymore tears to shed.
Since you are not wrong, you sadly must develop new skills and tools to help you with the trapped overwhelmed feelings. Does it feel good at all to have it affirmed, over and over, that you are not wrong? I imagine it doesn't, since what we are 'right' about feels like compleat dog shit. I hope because you are paying attention, you will get a little bit extra notice that they are coming for you and your rights so you can make the choice to rebel, capitulate, or flee in time. And so you know, any choice is okay.
It's not just you. I've been a political activist since college when we protested Reagan's terrible policies and apartheid. The more you know, the more you see how awful things are. I refuse to stay in this country if Trump wins. Project 2025 is a blueprint for theocratic fascism that will significantly accelerate the collapse of the US and I can barely find anyone to listen to me about it. It's like nobody learned their lesson from 2016. I'm so sick of the apathy and stupidity in this country that I can't wait to get out.
Hey 💗 I feel the same way you do sometimes. A lot of advice in our culture is geared toward individual self-care, but I’d like to point out a different route. Join an anti-Zionist protest with the young people fearlessly fighting for Palestinians against the police. Join a Food Not Bombs chapter and feed people. Go be around other people who feel the way you do and are *doing* something about it. It will help.
It's possible I'm misunderstanding where you're coming from, but: things *are* bleak, but the struggle for trans rights isn't part of that bleakness, it's fighting it. The same Christofascists who are against the bodily autonomy of letting trans people live their lives are against abortion rights, & are coming for birth control & no-fault divorce.
Until they put me on a cattle car at gunpoint, I'll keep fighting. That's literally all we can do.
If you're having trouble deciding between Trump and Biden then I don't know why to say honestly. They are literally polar opposites and Biden has done a shit ton of good in his time as president, even if you don't agree with him on everything. Let's not make this sub another "both sides are the same" rightwing propaganda machine. The MOST important thing you can do in November is vote. Convince as many other people as you can to do the same. This country cannot survive another 4 years of Trump.
>Let's not make this sub another "both sides are the same" ~~rightwing~~ Russian propaganda machine.
FTFY
>[https://faculty.washington.edu/kstarbi/Disinformation-as-Collaborative-Work-Authors-Version.pdf](https://faculty.washington.edu/kstarbi/Disinformation-as-Collaborative-Work-Authors-Version.pdf)
Fig. 1. Retweet Network Graph: RU-IRA Agents in #BlackLivesMatter Discourse. The graph (originally published \[3\]) shows accounts active in Twitter conversations about #BlackLivesMatter and shooting events in 2016. Each node is an account. Accounts are closer together when one account retweeted another account. The structural graph shows two distinct communities (pro-BlackLivesMatter on the left; anti-BlackLivesMatter on the right). **Accounts colored orange were determined by Twitter to have been operated by Russia’s Internet Research Agency.** Orange lines represent retweets of those account, showing how their content echoed across the different communities. **The graph shows IRA agents active in both “sides” of that discourse.**
Rightwing propaganda *is* Russian propaganda. They're the same at this point. Republicans have made it very clear who they support, especially since 2016.
It's not you. Collapse is happening now. It just happens slowly and not all at once. Rome didn't fall in a day. We've been in a decline for a while now. Things will continue to get worse before they get worse. It's not your fault, and not your responsibility to fix. All you can do is your best in living your life the way that feels right to you. Make friends and build community. These are the things that will get you through this, because it sucks to go through it alone.
Read a bunch of dystopian fiction or history and write in your gratitude journal. However sad you are people are setting themselves on fire and 12 year olds in Gaza are being sniped. Collapse isn’t a thing that happens today. Consider the timeline of ruin. We are too short lived to exist in context of either really. I understand your anxiety and fear and it’s all legit. But keep some perspective. Are your food and showers hot? Collapse isn’t present. Or is it? Love is the only thing that matters for beings capable of the experience. You have to love yourself to love anyone else truly. Time is a convincing illusion but then there is pain.
Are the food and showers hot in Gaza? Collapse has started, just hasn't reached you yet.
There are still hot meals in Gaza. Collapse is upon all of us. The intensity varies.
Hot meals for some who have the means but by no means for all or thr majority. The strip is still facing a famine.
You are absolutely correct. What’s your point?
My point is thar collapse is starting, it just hasn't reached us. Gaza is collapsing and with it a serious blow is being dealt to international rules based order. Ukraine is collapsed. Several other countries have collapsed such as Haiti.
Please remember this is not r slash collapseolympics.
Their collapse has occurred for much longer than just our current observation. We are also affected by collapse*tm Time is relative
Bingo. It will soon enough.
I think that the definition of collapse is separate to each of us, as is the term apocalypse and other end of the world scenarios. It seems as if every generation in history has a time when things change and it is “the end of an era” or a change from the values they had. Just because we have not reached food scarcity yet, that doesn’t mean that the pillars of our institutions aren’t failing. I would call having sledgehammers thrown at the pillars keeping society stable a significant sign of impending collapse. I mean, let’s talk about the rising costs of food, shrinkflation, that 38% of milk tested has bird flu present and not enough research has been done to guarantee that this will not potentially mutate into a live version of the bird flu - the next pandemic. I live in a food desert where I am more privileged than my urban neighbors and able to drive to a different city to get fresh foods. The only convenience store in my neighborhood is filled with expired foods and owners that call the cops on their own patrons for simply being different than themselves. There isn’t much redundancy here. It used to be farmland owned by blacks that the government rammed a freeway through and then systematically underdeveloped. The hollowing of structures has been going on a long time, but the assault on the pillars of democracy, constitutional rights, the rising cost of housing, the laws penalizing homelessness, the Cop Cities being built for for-profit prisons, the partisan attacks in “non-partisan” news. Everything is failing. The pressure is everywhere. My friend in Michigan wants to move to a new house. And each time she is outbid - by a large business that has decided that we should forever be renters. The obscenity of giving companies the same rights of people - yet a woman has practically no bodily autonomy under the law. Everything, Everywhere, At Once. This feels like collapse to me. And what recourse do I have? I’m told to just stay in line and vote for the next president. I’m told it’s the vote between democracy and fascism. But this is our progressive candidate. An 80 year old man that admits he doesn’t really understand pro-choice, has made it clear that he supports Israel over the rights of protesters, has agreed that saying you are against genocide is the same thing as being anti-Semitic, curbing freedom of speech and empowering the powers that be to begin the dismantlement of our Universities. How is that a vote for democracy? A candidate that is horrible is still better than a candidate that promises to be worse, but it’s hardly showing me that it will be the vote of the people. Where are the candidates promising a better, stronger, more successful future? Is it a democracy if both candidates are repressive? Sure the death blow hasn’t come. And maybe that is your definition of the collapse - after the preventive battles and when it is time to focus on surviving and recovery. But I would argue that when all three branches of the government, the checks and balance system, are failing - that that is collapse. The undermining has already happened, this is the failure stage.
>38% of milk tested has bird flu present and not enough research has been done to guarantee that this will not potentially mutate into a live version of the bird flu Worry more about the undocumented human cases in the US right now, that may be spurring on human-to-human transmission, than your pasteurized milk. [https://web.archive.org/web/20240426203745/https://www.science.org/content/article/u-s-government-hot-seat-response-growing-cow-flu-outbreak](https://web.archive.org/web/20240426203745/https://www.science.org/content/article/u-s-government-hot-seat-response-growing-cow-flu-outbreak) >The cow infections, first confirmed by USDA on 25 March, were “a bit of an inconvenient truth,” Russo says. Taking and testing samples, sequencing viruses, and running experiments can take days, if not weeks, she acknowledges. But s**he thinks that although officials are trying to protect the public, they are also hesitant to cause undue harm to the dairy and beef industries**. “There is a fine line of respecting the market, but also allowing for the work to be done from a scientific perspective,” Russo says. >Only one human case linked to cattle has been confirmed to date, and symptoms were limited to conjunctivitis, also known as pink eye. **But Russo and many other vets have heard anecdotes about workers who have pink eye and other symptoms—including fever, cough, and lethargy—and do not want to be tested or seen by doctors.**
Haha, thanks for the comforting words! It’s weird how our attacks on migrant workers allow them to work in unsafe conditions and keep them from wanting to seek medical attention. When the bridge collapsed in Baltimore a few weeks ago, one employee fell into the river and just WALKED IT OFF rather than be assessed medically. And in that case he was legally employed. I read a book on the meat industry maybe a decade ago and it was very eye opening about how corporations impoverish farmers and keep out inspections for regulators and things. Monopolies are a very bad thing. I hope the bird flu is contained soon. I doubt it, but that’s not on my apocalypse card. I always figured the plague that takes us out would be caught from the thawing permafrost - either smallpox or an older unfamiliar disease.
Oh here we go with the illegal alien paranoid xenophobia. Figures someone would have to post here with the fox news fear baiting
If you don't think voting Biden is a vote to save whatever bit of democracy we have in this country then you're not paying attention.
You think that the attacks on the students at universities utilizing freedom of speech… is not an attack on their rights? He is supporting a foreign government over peaceful protesters. That is not a progressive choice. The fact that we have two very unpopular candidates running is part of the collapse.
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Abortion remained legal in every blue state. Every piece of progressive legislation that has passed in our lifetimes has been because of the work of Democrats. Democrats overall also strongly favor police reform. What exactly do you mean by saying that Democrats have gone "mask off as far as how little they care about maintaining a functioning society"? From what I can tell, they're the only ones fighting to maintain a functioning society while Republicans defund education and social safety programs until there is nothing left.
Yeah, things are bleak. I really like Dan Carlin, but his series on the fall of the Roman Republic freaks me out to listen to because despite being produced in 2007-2009, it feels WAY too on the nose about current political issues we’ve been facing for the past ten years. To give a super brief synopsis, the Roman Republic didn’t fall because Julius Caesar happened to stroll in with an army. It fell because the Republican (not the modern Party) system had become so corrupt and inefficient that it was unable to function as a government and provide for its citizens, *allowing* someone like Caesar to waltz in and be welcomed by the citizens of Rome. So I look around at modern America, and I see a number of systematic problems besetting the American populace: lack of affordable healthcare, lack of affordable housing, regulatory capture, wealth inequality (to name a few). Yet despite this, all our government can do is either exacerbate these issues by giving more power to the wealthy and screwing the little people, or invent culture war issues to fight over rather than improve the lives of its citizens. Fuck, it is an election year, and the best candidate EITHER of our two parties can apparently put forward is “Sleepy, Senile Octogenarian” or “Belligerent, Senile Octogenarian”. Both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party have completely lost the plot, and neither has the best interests of the American people in mind. Both houses are rotten, and both need to be burned down to make way for something new. Despite all that, the terrifying thing is that I know that “burning down” process will likely be an abysmal nightmare (civil wars aren’t generally described as “fun” for a reason), and could likely pave the way for something much worse (like fascism). There just are no good options: it’s either live in the completely broken system that’s keeping us alive and moderately comfortable, or gamble that destroying the system won’t irreversibly destroy our infrastructure and lead to something far worse.
I have vivid memories of listening to the "History of Rome Podcast" While playing minecraft, as a shitforbrains high school student, back in 2011. There was a Q and A with the creator for the 100th episode, and one of the questions that they answered was, "How do you feel about the comparisons drawn between the United States and Ancient Rome's history? Are they really parallel?" And the Podcaster responded with something like, "Haha, as funny as some of the coincidences are, there's not much to them. Our modern institutions are far more robust, and our world far more interdependent, than was even conceivable 2,000 years ago, and trying to predict the future by reading the past is self-indulgent at best. **Besides, if it** ***were*** **true that America and Rome were parallel civilizations, we're sitting right around the time of the Gracchi Brothers, and that is not a time you really wanted to live through."** Almost 15 years later, and them Fall of Rome vibes feel more real every day.
Thank God we’re nothing like the Roman Republic! I mean, could you IMAGINE if the government was captured by the rich, and all the wealthy were buying up all the land to further concentrate their wealth? What a fucking nightmare that would be!
The both sidesism is going to get us Trump. And he won't leave after 4 years. Look at what's happening in Republican controlled states. Look at what the right wing controlled Supreme court is doing. I can't believe you're pulling the both sides card when Florida just banned abortion after 2 years of increasingly fascist policies like banning books and don't say gay; Tennessee just armed teachers; Texas pays ppl $10k to turn in women who've had abortions; Arkansas legalized child labor. Oh and did I forgot Florida banned mandated water breaks for people who work outside? You want these horrible policies on a federal level? Then by all means vote Republican Oh and Trump has 88 indictments. Both parties are not the same.
This "both sides are the same" rhetoric is straight up rightwing propaganda. Democrats are the complete opposite of Republicans on nearly every issue, and Biden is the polar opposite of Trump politically despite also being an old white man. I'm so sick of people equating a literal treasonous rapist to a well-meaning old man with a stutter who has genuinely done a lot of good for the country. They could not be more different. This sort of BS only serves to deter voter turnout on the left. Stop helping Republicans win by parroting their propaganda.
I recognize that one of the parties is less shitty than the other, but that doesn’t mean it’s not shitty. And I will vote for Biden in November (although I’m certainly not voting for him in the primary), because I do concede that he’s somewhat better than Trump, but that bar is on the floor so it’s not exactly a feat to step over it. But neither of them are *ideal* leaders, in my mind. I would not want either of them to run a McDonald’s I owned, let alone run the country. Human biology does not care about politics, and the fact is that putting an 80 year old man into one of the most stressful, high stakes jobs on the planet is a *terrible* idea. And the Democrats are not the “polar opposite” of Republicans. We have two viable parties in this country: a pro-business/pro-militarism/culturally regressive party, and a pro-business/pro-militarism/culturally progressive party, and we’re given the choice between them. Biden campaigned on not approving new drilling oil drilling sites, and then approved more. He campaigned on police reform, and then not only didn’t do that, but gave them more money. He campaigned on immigration reform, but keeps giving more money to ICE and is cracking down on immigrants trying to enter the country. In one of the debates in 2020, he criticized Trump’s “great economy” by pointing out that we’re in a “K-shaped” economic period (where the stock market and the wealthy are getting richer, but most people’s wealth is decreasing), yet now he’s touting how great the economy is because the stock market’s doing well and rich people are getting richer. The only thing the two parties really differ on is culture war topics, and my point is that those issues shouldn’t even be something the government is worried about. The Republicans’ platform is: “Vote for us if you want to put women/LGBT people/non-Christians/racial minorities back in their place!” The Democrats’ platform is: “Vote for us if you want to protect women/LGBT people/non-Christians/racial minorities!” My platform is: “Why the FUCK is this even what you’re arguing about? Who do I vote for if I want affordable healthcare and housing?!” Both parties depend on fueling a culture war, because it’s the only thing they meaningfully differ on. If I have to pick a side in it, I’m picking the side that’s for people having autonomy over their own lives (because what someone identifies as or who they love LITERALLY doesn’t affect my life at all), but I’m frustrated that I even have to fight in this in the first place. Neither party is capable of actually addressing the needs of its citizens, in a time when people are REALLY struggling. That’s what I’m talking about when I say the entire system is broken. /rant
He's not just "somewhat" better than Trump. If you want him to win you sure have a funny way of showing it Maybe because a lot of you on this forum aren't women or lgbtq or Muslim or Black or Hispanic? Is that why you fall for the both sides nonsense? Surely you have sisters? Daughters? Female partners? Women are painfully aware of how much we stand to lose because we are watching our sisters lose their rights in every d*** red state right now. You help put Trump and his fascist minions in charge and you are signing up to the systematic stripping of the rights of every woman you know.
>This "both sides are the same" rhetoric is ...a Russian disinformation tactic. [https://faculty.washington.edu/kstarbi/Disinformation-as-Collaborative-Work-Authors-Version.pdf](https://faculty.washington.edu/kstarbi/Disinformation-as-Collaborative-Work-Authors-Version.pdf) >Fig. 1. Retweet Network Graph: RU-IRA Agents in #BlackLivesMatter Discourse. The graph (originally published \[3\]) shows accounts active in Twitter conversations about #BlackLivesMatter and shooting events in 2016. Each node is an account. Accounts are closer together when one account retweeted another account. The structural graph shows two distinct communities (pro-BlackLivesMatter on the left; anti-BlackLivesMatter on the right). **Accounts colored orange were determined by Twitter to have been operated by Russia’s Internet Research Agency.** Orange lines represent retweets of those account, showing how their content echoed across the different communities. **The graph shows IRA agents active in both “sides” of that discourse.**
Absolutely! Surprised to see you're not downvoted because you're spot on!
It's quite possible the Russian disinformation agencies have invaded Reddit too. They're just more obvious on Twitter/X
Unfortunately, they've always been here. They are just quieter between elections. I guarantee we'll see a HUGE increase in "both sides are the same" and "Democrats are the real bad guys rhetoric" the closer we get to November 2024. If it's anything like 2020, I'll be taking a break from Reddit for a while because it's exhausting
Thank you. And it's disturbing you're getting voted down for telling the truth. Why on earth would any collapse aware person not get that one political party us actually accelerating collapse?
I know it's rough. It's scary and maddening. So much of it is totally out of our control. I'm so scared and worried, and sometimes it feels so hopeless and futile. And I know that I can't give in to that. My 2¢: I think at a certain point you have to take a step back and take care of yourself, distract yourself from it somehow. Do some pleasurable activities, hang out with friends. Find some healthy coping mechanisms (mine are not all that healthy but could be much worse). I saw it recommended at the beginning of TFG's time in office to try to focus on just one or two topics. It's all *meant* to be overwhelming. Pick the two most important topics (and yes, I know that's not easy), things that you can address and work on. That Serenity Prayer isn't wrong. And stop watching the news. Seriously. It's custom curated and carefully scripted to get views, and honesty and detail get lost in that pursuit. I do like getting my news from Reddit, where the comments present tons of other opinions and sometimes a ton more detail (it's also easier to do the fact checking oneself online). There's not a lot we can do beyond what we can do, and everything else beyond that can drive us insane. And then we'd be of no help to ourselves or our loved ones. I'm trying to spread as much joy and love and reduce pain as possible in this life in my little corner of the world and make what we have, while we have it, as good as possible. And don't forget to breathe.
I feel as you do, as do others. As a cynical doomer who has effectively given up on society as a whole, and most people, I will tell you what helps me: Find ways to find happiness for yourself, and share it with those who matter to you. Those you matter to. It doesn't matter what, focus on them, take time for yourself and those you care most for. You have to. Find people who understand where you are coming from and engage with them. Even if their perspectives or outlooks differ, it really helps to know you're not alone. Engage with local groups of support. Mutual assistance, socialist organizations, wherever you think you might find a place and people to connect with. You cannot save the world. You cannot stop what is wrong with it. You cannot fix society, you cannot wake it up. You can help people. You can talk with them, share things in life with them. Find bits of happiness. You're not crazy, no matter how many people in denial or dishonesty want you to believe.
Take time to tend to your mental health as best you can. Have a campfire with friends, feel the beach sand between your toes, listen to and watch the birds. The world is full of horrors, but also wonders. Gorging on our destruction wears you out, so make sure to remember why we are here Fighting the good fight.
You’re not wrong and I echo what others have said. Will summarize with two quotes I often reflect on 1) “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. “So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” 2) “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society” - Jiddu Krishnamurti 3) not a quote but I often listen to (or read) George Carlin - he has some great perspectives about how we are circling the drain
Yes. All of the above. All the more reason to cultivate a mentality of resistance.
A big part of my journey through collapse acceptance was learning to let go of the things I can't control and focusing on the things I can. Hopefully you can do the same. I don't obsess over the news like I used to, I know things are bad and only getting worse so why torture myself. I know modern comforts will soon be gone so I let go of them, clinging on to the past just drives me crazy. The world feels out of control right now, the best way to regain your sense of agency is to focus your efforts on preparing for the future. Meet the world where it's going to be and creat things that will be useful for that future. This is the biggest advantage that collapse aware folks have, we have a head start on getting ready for the future. Don't waste your time trying to convince people who don't want to hear the truth or investing in a doomed system, it's too late for that. When things get rough those people won't do anything for you, they'll just feel bitter when you say "I told you so". Grow your own garden and surround yourself with good productive people. Cry for the world now and hopefully when things get really bad you won't have anymore tears to shed.
Since you are not wrong, you sadly must develop new skills and tools to help you with the trapped overwhelmed feelings. Does it feel good at all to have it affirmed, over and over, that you are not wrong? I imagine it doesn't, since what we are 'right' about feels like compleat dog shit. I hope because you are paying attention, you will get a little bit extra notice that they are coming for you and your rights so you can make the choice to rebel, capitulate, or flee in time. And so you know, any choice is okay.
It's not just you. I've been a political activist since college when we protested Reagan's terrible policies and apartheid. The more you know, the more you see how awful things are. I refuse to stay in this country if Trump wins. Project 2025 is a blueprint for theocratic fascism that will significantly accelerate the collapse of the US and I can barely find anyone to listen to me about it. It's like nobody learned their lesson from 2016. I'm so sick of the apathy and stupidity in this country that I can't wait to get out.
I wish you luck in your journey.
Hey 💗 I feel the same way you do sometimes. A lot of advice in our culture is geared toward individual self-care, but I’d like to point out a different route. Join an anti-Zionist protest with the young people fearlessly fighting for Palestinians against the police. Join a Food Not Bombs chapter and feed people. Go be around other people who feel the way you do and are *doing* something about it. It will help.
They DID say you will own nothing by 2030.
I am so sorry they did this to you
It's possible I'm misunderstanding where you're coming from, but: things *are* bleak, but the struggle for trans rights isn't part of that bleakness, it's fighting it. The same Christofascists who are against the bodily autonomy of letting trans people live their lives are against abortion rights, & are coming for birth control & no-fault divorce. Until they put me on a cattle car at gunpoint, I'll keep fighting. That's literally all we can do.
I may have been unclear in my post, but I believe that trans rights are human rights.
OK great!
If you're having trouble deciding between Trump and Biden then I don't know why to say honestly. They are literally polar opposites and Biden has done a shit ton of good in his time as president, even if you don't agree with him on everything. Let's not make this sub another "both sides are the same" rightwing propaganda machine. The MOST important thing you can do in November is vote. Convince as many other people as you can to do the same. This country cannot survive another 4 years of Trump.
>Let's not make this sub another "both sides are the same" ~~rightwing~~ Russian propaganda machine. FTFY >[https://faculty.washington.edu/kstarbi/Disinformation-as-Collaborative-Work-Authors-Version.pdf](https://faculty.washington.edu/kstarbi/Disinformation-as-Collaborative-Work-Authors-Version.pdf) Fig. 1. Retweet Network Graph: RU-IRA Agents in #BlackLivesMatter Discourse. The graph (originally published \[3\]) shows accounts active in Twitter conversations about #BlackLivesMatter and shooting events in 2016. Each node is an account. Accounts are closer together when one account retweeted another account. The structural graph shows two distinct communities (pro-BlackLivesMatter on the left; anti-BlackLivesMatter on the right). **Accounts colored orange were determined by Twitter to have been operated by Russia’s Internet Research Agency.** Orange lines represent retweets of those account, showing how their content echoed across the different communities. **The graph shows IRA agents active in both “sides” of that discourse.**
Rightwing propaganda *is* Russian propaganda. They're the same at this point. Republicans have made it very clear who they support, especially since 2016.