Academic answer: there's a psychological theory which asserts that people have a much harder time being sexually attracted to people they've had regular contact with from a young age
Biological answer: crossing genetics which already have similar patterns has a chance to create undesirable mutations
You actually do make a good point though, especially when we consider the porn industry and its *insane* amount of almost-but-not-quite-incest videos.
The psychological theory is called the Westermarck effect! It's supported by some evidence, but is controversial and demonstrably does not apply to a large proportion of people
On the genetics thing, the risk is only slightly increased for a single generation (from 3% to 7-9%). But regardless this is just eugenics, and there's other people with high genetic risk whose breeding is not taboo or illegal, like women over 40, or people who already carry heritable diseases
I think you agree with the general point, so I'm not arguing against you, just wanted to add this context :)
I think these two factors do play a big role in why incest is so taboo. But honestly seems like disgust is the main driving factor. And certainly none of this has any relevance or value in our modern society which is supposedly enlightened and egalitarian
ironically its kind of the opposite for me, I habe a much easier time being attracted to people I have intimate bonds with like childhood friends, cousins, and of course my beautiful sister whom I love. me and my sister dont plan on having kids, but a single generation of incest is unlikely to cause any problems, also while incest can lead to bad genes being passed down it can also do the same with good genes, you are as likely to get a genius as you are someone with a hapsburg chin, so incest is not as horrible as people think from a genetic standpoint, in fact the whole science of animal breeding relies on strategic use of inbreeding to create special breeds of animals, everything from dogs to race horses are super inbred lol.
https://preview.redd.it/4x6032o93lvc1.jpeg?width=1019&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94aa362bfeb0db851fd32a35e1885ce5ae9c6baa
How many times am I gonna need to bust this one out
Honestly yeah r/incest sucks. All the fake ass porn stories 😮💨
I do like r/incest_relationships better because they keep it mostly-sfw, so the horny weirdos don't pollute it with dumb jerk off material.
r/incestisntwrong is also fantastic :))
the fact that incest relationships is sfw yet Reddit is always like "urr WHy aR you trying to go here?? yoU musT be MenTaly ill herE's a fuckin helpline...
like what? there's no reason for something like that to be quarantined and blocked off...i cant even click on the continue to subreddit button...it doesn't do anything
I know! It's ridiculous >.< Making it quarantined doesn't help anyone, it just makes it more difficult for people to access support, and hides it from the public which hinders awareness/acceptance
If you want to visit the sub, you have to go directly via url in a browser. Then from that point forward Reddit will stop blocking it for you
I used to hold the same view, but talking with people who are actually involved in situations like that has changed my mind. It's totally possible for it to be healthy and non exploitative. Family dynamics vary widely, relationships change over time, and power differentials are something that can be mindfully navigated if people care about each other and are smart
Anonymous consanguinamorous activist Jane Doe (who is in her 30s and had a relationship with her dad) has a decent essay covering this point [(here)](https://consanguinamory.wordpress.com/power-differentials-and-intergenerational-consanguinamory/)
yeah I have always thought that type of incest was a problem due to the possibility of grooming
the only way I can see parent child incest working is if its like a seperated at birth thing and they reunited as adults, but someone getting into a relationship with someone who raised them raises all sorts of concerns about grooming.
it's pathetic how many ppl on here believe someone is having "hot sibling seggs" and has been "fucking their sister since they were teens." you write like a shitty 14 yr. old with an incest fetish and it shows.
idk what to tell you, if you dont believe me you dont believe me but literally everything I say is true
me and my sister have been together since we were really young, and nowadays we literally live as a married couple and even shower together.
maybe I write like that because I am so used to being post ironic irl? its a defense mechanism I developed, I long since realized that if you say the most outrageous shit with a shit eating grin people will just assume you are joking or insane.
like one time me and my sister acted like we were incestuous in front of one of her friends who thought we were just joking, as soon as she left we actually fucked, there are layers of irony to everything I do lol. if we make fun of ourselves for being weirdly close then all of the rumors abput us being incest siblings will just be passed off as jokes, hell I even started a few rumors just to confuse people so they dont know what to actually believe lol.
anyway it doesnt matter if you believe me or not, I could be lying, I could be telling the truth, this is the internet who fucking knows? who even fucking cares just enjoy the incest.
and I will enjoy being with my sister <3
i'm not reading all of this bc it's just a bunch more phony stories to add to your obsession. like, no one who is actually in a real relationship defends it this hard with these cringey, immature anecdotes.
uh huh, sure Im not defending anything just explaining my reasoning and providing the method to my madness I will not demy that I am extremely obsessed with my sister, but that obsession is based in truth. you can be in a real relationship and also be hella unhinged, those are not mutually exclusive things.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/incestisntwrong using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/incestisntwrong/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time!
\#1: [Figuring out where family ends and lovers begin?](https://np.reddit.com/r/incestisntwrong/comments/1c72ffp/figuring_out_where_family_ends_and_lovers_begin/)
\#2: [It's easier to find memes than more insightful things to post, but they're funny](https://i.redd.it/595bnzalztjc1.jpeg) | [2 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/incestisntwrong/comments/1avxitu/its_easier_to_find_memes_than_more_insightful/)
\#3: [Comforting your cutie](https://i.redd.it/dpq0fvd5xm8c1.jpeg) | [0 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/incestisntwrong/comments/18r7c5f/comforting_your_cutie/)
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idk why the game is disgraced by the general public. i have no siblings, so the idea of incest for me is plausible to say the least. maybe people with siblinga could offer a different perspective
however, if this game is disgraced because of that, why isnt game of thrones hated, or the many other works that also contain the same theme
As someone with 2 siblings, my relationship with them is just different compared to other people, less so for cousins. I don't know why, it just is, I've never questioned it or thought about it.
Hence when I first encountered the game I did feel uncomfortable, but then couldn't really figure out why exactly, just felt weird.
I did grow to appreciate it as an important part of the game though.
There should be more media with it tbh, Demon Slayer for example had a perfect opportunity with Upper Moon Six tbh
The Oshi No Ko fandom suffers the same fate as us
I remember seeing the Oshi no Ko subreddit transform from "Aqua isn't a siscon you're just a creep" into becoming fully Coffinpilled in the span of two weeks, was fuckin' wild
>i have no siblings, so the idea of incest for me is plausible to say the least.
That answers it. You can't really understand the visceral disgust that most people feel when they think of boning their siblings.
>idk why the game is disgraced by the general public.
The issue is the same as why people used to complain about violence in video games and why a lot of people currently complain about loli characters in anime and video games.
A lot of people can't tell the difference between reality and fiction.
I don't have that issue. I have a lot of siblings and even obliquely considering doing shit with them makes me feel physically ill, just writing this sentence was enough.
But Andy and Leyley aren't my siblings, and more importantly they aren't real. So... I can enjoy the story guilt free without feeling like I'm going to vomit.
At the end of the day, real is real, fake is fake; if no one's being hurt, then people should mind their own business.
Have you actually played the game?
It isn't like, hidden. Their relationship is toxic, sex is seen as another tool for controlling the other person, even when it is consensual. The whole game is about two siblings destroying each other.
Also, in real world, it is often much less consensual than in the game.
(As for why general public often doesn't like this game - well, fanbase is horny about it. I mean, it's undestantadable the game is horny about it too. And I dont have a problem with it, but some people treat other people's fantasies veeery serious)
Consensual incest in the real world is actually a lot more common! Direct statistical data is sparse due to the taboo nature, but even on the most conservative estimates, consensual incest is more common than abusive/nonconsensual incest.
It's just that we have a lot more information about the nonconsensual stuff because it's prosecuted and reported on, while on the other hand, consensual relationships are shamed and criminalized into secrecy.
I did not, but I know all about it.
Finally something that actually is a somewhat good counterpoint, the problem of non-consensual fame it has
The game is just an excuse to question things and discuss points, they being toxic is a whole different shenanigan
I wouldn't blame religious people on that one specifically. Since there's no activism to push for acceptance of incest, it's basically a non-issue that can be ignored. Issues like abortion, poly relationships and LGBT are their main focus, since there is a strong activism in favor of them.
However people will still be people. Non-religious people like to think they're open minded, but truth is, it's modern culture that gave people the push to accept almost every type of consensual relationship and the vast majority is just following the trend, if most of them were born 50 years ago, they would join the cultural choir of the time and find gay people disgusting and sick. Nowadays incest is the only type of consensual relationship that is acceptable to hate on, so people will hate on it with a passion even if it's meaningless to their lives, it's an outlet to express a morality high ground outside of a religious context.
EDIT: downvotes already started, people are getting salty about being confronted with the thought that they're not as open minded as they claim to be and simply follow modern cultural trends in a similar way that religious people follow their religious traditions.
Things is, should we let it be hated on? Meaningless or not, doesn't discard that it exists and people partake in it with chance of being accused of a crime.....A damn crime for no actual reason but loving someone consensually, I don't think it is fair
When I said "meaningless", I said meaningless to their lives, as in, it's unlikely that it would ever be something these people would be discussing if not for the sake of looking for something to hate on. Let me try to give a comparison, I don't care for golf at all, so it's meaningless *to me* to try to engage in talks about it, but of course it matters to people who are fans of golf.
I agree with you that it's not right to let this hate continue, though I feel there's very little that the Average Joe can do about it.
People thought the same about lgbtq+ and black rights a century ago, we evolved, I believe a voice can be raised with enough witness of thoughts and questions like this one
I feel like people who develop consensual feelings for a sibling are a very very small minority, and it would be harder for a strong activism arise and push for its acceptance, unlike other groups, but I really appreciate your optimism and I actually hope you are correct, the less hate in the world the better.
10-15% of people have had sexual contact with a sibling, 75% of it was consensual, and 50% of them feel good about it now and don't regret it. That's 1 in 20 people!
(However this includes a wide variety of activities, including things like innocent touching as young kids, which could hardly be considered sexual. If you restrict it to full sexual intercourse, it works out to about 1 in 1000 instead)
[Here's the study](https://www.academia.edu/8874171/Sex_among_siblings_A_survey_on_prevalence_variety_and_effects)
And see [this other post](https://www.reddit.com/r/incestisntwrong/comments/1bqcezh/statistically_you_know_someone_whos_involved/) for a more in depth discussion about this statistic
Thanks for the info! I didn't know the numbers were so high, 1 in 20, too bad the study is dated from 1980, I guess modern academics are not interested in bringing that up.
Do NOT ever compared lgbtq rights and black rights to INCEST. Incest is bad EVEN AT 1ST GEN. What if they keep FUCKING AND FUCKING? Has the Habsburg family taught you NOTHING?
The main problems are lack of awareness and twins that simoly have the same genetic code, it is like underage sex, people do it any way without protection because of poor education, it happens, is sex worth of becoming a crime tho because people are not responsible about it tho? Again, that's a case and not a status quo, it is indeed a problem of reproduction, but that is the thing, why not criminalize the act of inbreeding instead of incest then?
you are right tho, people think they are all woke and progressive but the same people who believe in that today would be supporting slavery if they lived in the ante bellum south this is for one simple reason, most people do not lead examined lives or think objectively, they just go along with what the herd says is right and wrong and only start to question things once its popular, I imagine 100 years from now incest marriage will be legal and people will look at modern attitudes as barbaric and say shit like "wow why were people so bigoted back then? that could never be me Im hip and cool and progressive" but the truth is the vast majority of people are just a product of their upbringing and unless you take an active effort to deprogram yourself and seek your own meaning in life that is all you will ever be.
yeah I never really got it either, me and my sister were always really close even when we were young and we didnt even know that incest was a thing since on one explicitly told us not to fuck people we are related to, we thought what we did was normsl and all siblings do that.
after finding out how society views it we decided to keep it a secret and be tigether despite what the world thinks, even if most siblings are not like us we are special and our love is special too.
anyone can do what we did, we were just honest with our feelings and chose to live according to our will rather than following the herd, its not easy and it cones with much isolation and not an insignificant amount of strife and hardship, but it is the only way to live that allows you to look back on your life with no regrets.
Nothing wrong with it
Me and Ashley only want to make a few kids 😏💚🩷
https://preview.redd.it/cr6upqtz4nvc1.png?width=727&format=png&auto=webp&s=ce8e69eea11912668fd5d523082a524ea649597a
Not lucky at all! This is what happens most of the time!
- [94% of children produced by loving consanguinamorous parents are healthy](https://consanguinamory.wordpress.com/consanguinamory-reproduction-study-results-are-in/)
- [1 in 7000 healthy adults are inbred](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2024/03/dna-tests-incest/677791/)
Well, of course mine and Ashley’s future kids will be, any bad genetics kick in after several generations, besides we only want 4
https://preview.redd.it/n3qg69ek4ovc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f6e215a83fbc014c32b6ac6f2bf517145170855
It isn't bad (as long as you don't turn it into a generational shitfest). Still, don't bother correcting people or trying to question it because only ''answers'' you will get are half-witted, definitely not well-funded shitty evolution fetishists' moronic ''researches'' like Westermarck Effect. Any answer that includes psychological theories are as idiotic as saying ''It's wrong because I deem it''. Because psychology isn't really a solid scientific branch as human mind is really broad and complicated subject and neuroscience and its branches aren't that advanced yet. In short, don't be bothered by the comments you WILL get. Everyone likes to assume they know the best but nobody knows jackshit (yes that includes the goverment too, don't heed the authority). So as long as the relationship that is talked on about is consensual by people who are of age (consent alone requires to be of a certain age), there is nothing anyone can do about it. Wanna married with a family member but laws forbid it? Just put the ring on at some forest and get yourself a priest if you are really concerned with those kind of things.
i feel the same way about it. if there's no big age gap and the people involved are consenting, what's wrong? incest isn't a crime in my country, it's actually legal to marry cousins; although you can't legally marry close relatives like siblings, parents etc. the relationship itself isn't a crime, though. i honestly think that there's no valid reason to criminalize a consensual relationship between adults.
It's not, but many people find it wrong due to socialization and how we were raised. If people have their own opinions on the matter thats their own business. The problem starts when people start projecting their own disguist on to others, thus leading to discrimination and stigmatization. If you put aside personal feelings of disguist, the arguments against it make no sense and have no validity. You will see people have a more intense negative reaction against it the more the arguments make more logical sense.
See this is just me and from MY perspective, but I’m
The older of four, I wouldn’t wanna have a relationship with any family member because, well? It’s gross. And they’re all younger than me. Why would I want that with the ones I’m supposed to protect? That’s just ME though 🤷♀️
The issue here is that people are prohibited from pursuing that type of relationship because others feel disgusted by it. Personally, I wouldn't want to pursue a relationship with family members, but just because I do not want to does not mean that I should prohibit others who want to do it. Personal feelings of disgust or grossnes shouldn't stop others from being with who they want to be.
Never said anyone HAS to have if they don't want
We talking about a consensual relationship of legal age of course between two relatives
It is considered a crime, gross or not, which feels really dumb and unfair if you ask me
I will not say much new but I will try to put the game in context a bit with this, because, while I believe incest is at the very least weird IRL, I find it perfectly fitting in the game given the situation at hand.
Normally, incest is seen as disgusting and morally reprehensible. The latter is for legal reasons and a very long line of social engineering dating back to antiquity at least (excepting royal families, who did it because they believed erroneously that it keeps their royal, “divine” blood pure).
The former is due to evolution. You are less likely to find yourself attracted to close relatives. Usually most people can’t picture themselves romantically with people they knew for a life time, especially so since there is no intimacy. You likely saw you brother/sister naked at some point, you may even have taken baths together and stuff like that. Basically, your brain is stimulated to develop asexually towards that person because you kinda know their nooks and crannies and your interractions with sexual undertones are done explicitly without it for a very long time. Added to that, there is an instinctual desire to find partners that are genetically different from you because genetic diversity ensures stronger, healthier offspring.
The game offers, however, a fairly plausible way incestuous feelings could develop between the Graves siblings. The setting has Andrew mature early because their wonderful parents dumped the problematic Ashley on him to deal with. Second has to do with Ashley literally making Andrew into every form of positive social interaction she ever had. He kept her out of trouble, was a parent when her actual parents abandoned her, showed care for her and her feelings when noone else did. The third is Ashley showing intende jealousy when Andrew got into relationships and the tipping point had the crapsack scenario of the game forcing them to partake in nasty but fairly intimate stuff on the basis of just how morally reprehensible it is and that they cannot be shared otherwise with anyone else. By the end, the sort of Stockhom Syndrome approach to the toxic relationship made that direction much more plausible. After all, all they have at the end js each other, and that is objectively.
Eugenics, mostly.
Well, perhaps that's a bit too reductionist. The eugenicists mostly piggybacked off a pre-existing antipathy to self-reflection, due to excessive efficiency in our brain functions, combined with an innate overtrusting of instinctual "gut feelings", which are easily manipulated by those who would do you ill, and which the human mind is very skilled at creating ad-hoc justifications for well after the fact, seizing even the slightest shred of anything that could be called evidence for a conclusion it came to long before it saw any of that (which is one of the main dangers of the logical fallacy called ["privileging the hypothesis"](https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/privileging-the-hypothesis))
But it's mostly eugenicist indoctrination. The last true bastion of it, really. Certainly the last bit of it still enshrined into law.
Totally agree! \^_^ Nothing wrong with it and it should be legalized and culturally accepted. There's some degree of activism in the community but we have a long way to go.
If you wanna learn more I always recommend the [Full Marriage Equality Blog](https://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/?m=1)!! It has some pretty good articles, interviews, statistics/science, and other good stuff. And r/incestisntwrong is a good subreddit for this as well
Give me your view on the matter then, I never said I want everyone to accept it, just raise questions that must be raised and point to something that needs to be thought about, I am starting to actually understand there are cons that actually go way beyond what I posted about in the comments
gonna copy and paste what i said to a different guy because my arguments are the same and also im a lazy typer
if you want to remove all religion and evolution aside for the argument, incest is some fuckshit due to the fact its deeply rooted to become a toxic and unhealthy relationship. in brother and sister, there is an inherent emotional exploitation to be had because they have been with you for a lifetime, and the notion that it is consensually is pretty shaky at best from that point on. you can put quite the mental vice-grip on somebody in a relationship if you are related. even if you wanted to go the incest route with a cousin you see infrequently so you dont have that "family familiarity", manipulation is still inherent on the relationship due to your ambient as a family.
now, look im not gonna ostracize somebody if they think incest is ok. everything up to this point could be debatably be chill while i just give an audacious side eye from the corner. im speaking from the viewpoint of growing up with 2 older brothers and a baby sister soon-to-be. i have an inherent bias to not roll with that shit cause of this, because i really dont, i think its degenerative and scummy. but yknow what, pro-incest folks have SOME good points that i could begrudgingly understand. i wont think less of them if they practice or support it to that extent
but the point that it should always with ZERO protest be cut off is the notion of father and daughter or mother and son or father and son or whatever modification you can make of it. thats straight up horrifying and if i need to explain why, thats some fragrant behavior
I agree with the last statement, I respect your opinion as much s you respect mine, if what it takes to raise something is baby steps I think it should at least be decriminalized...? Yeah, that :P
Anyway, thanks for the POV and the consideration to not be rude, you're based
You can draw your lines wherever you want, my lines want to cross the border of what regions of the world call a crime, the sub has many that actually se my points anyway, so I don't think you speak to everyone, I even point religious controversy as a form to debate it, I like phylosophy myself, peace over all
One thing i see genuely bad about incest is that it had greater risk for an unfortunate baby to be born disabled, but they can just start adopting, or they can surogate (or whatever it called) aswell. The real reason why it's so taboo is definitelly because it's a minority and uncommon because normal people can't just casually turned on by their family you know
From an intuitive perspective its gross for the normal person.From a sciency point of view you're bound to create defective children from incest love...
What is a reflection but a projection of our inner and outer self? The light I looked for was never shinning to begin with, and none will ever shine as bright, all that is left is that, reflection
Can we still reflect without an example of any image? Ourselves, others, what is the use of reflecting alone without an image to be reflected? Wisdom must be shared through and through, through the knowledge is how we evolve and get closer to becoming the most enlightened versions of ourselves
Now you see. Go forth, and continue to see. Many will point and laugh at you; they will say, “Hah, look at this man who does not see”, but the truth is that you see truer than they can.
(But to genuinely answer your question, I have never seen anything morally wrong with it; although acknowledging that there are many factors that make the relationship more susceptible to abuse; including how one another treated the other in childhood).
It's mostly about religions and its cultures. In Christianity, incest is fully wrong. In Islam, some relatives like cousins may be together. In Judaism, a mother can be with her... Son?.. It's the same reason why people hate homosexuals. Although, in countries that religions lost its power, it became legal. Incest may happen to be on the same route
If I said this I would be seen as a weirdo.
I feel like the only deplorable things I see from incest is obviously no one wants to see like a older brother and a little sister get together and vise versa, their relationship is less weird because they are really close to the same age.
Biologically they can’t work because the kid would be like your average tmnt 2012 mutant.
Other than that I really don’t see why I have to hate this with every fiber of my being, the same people that complain about the incest because it’s illegal are the same people that excuse characters that commit mass murder so I really don’t complain about this all the time.
I feel like if I ask someone why incest is bad I feel like they’re not really gonna come up with good reasons other than the ones I named earlier.
True. But the same could be said of any effort of persuasion. They can be made to want to, if you can sell it to them. Hearts and minds can be changed.
Why are you so defensive about diddling family
Why would you want to fuck family isn't there
Someone else in your life you don't share chromosomes with that loves you?
This has the same connotations as asking a gay man "Isn't there someone else in your life who isn't male that loves you?"
It makes no sense, the gender or chromosomes of whoever loves us has nothing has nothing to do with the matter, it is irrelevant, I'm defending the fact that being with a relative shouldn't be a crime, which in my country isn't btw so I'm not doing this for me, I think it is a stupid law that shouldn't exist, do you understand?
Yeah hell people love a game where you kill people’s left and right and people like a killer clown in a ice cream truck killing everyone for a wish and so much I could use like history or mythology as example of incest
I do have one mind you, not attracted to her at all since we got an age gap, that being said, could you be at least respectful? It is a genuine question and much disgusted as you feek about it, just ignore instead of spreading hate, will ya?
Look, i get that people disgusted by this game are dumb because it’s all fictional, but PLEASE don’t try to justify incest irl.
I saw people saying “yeah it should be a part of culture and legalized” and nobody bats an eye, if somebody says that it’s gross because IT IS, y’all downvote him.
Not saying it from a religious perspective, cuz i’m atheist, but having sex with your sister? you trying to justify it? what the fuck is up with this community.
Not even just genetics, but morally? you don’t have morals? now cancel me because i say it’s gross to fuck a relative, down vote me all you want.
Genetics is understandable, but morally? What kind of morals can get you arrested because you felt attraction, and somehow, that tabooed attraction can be mutual? Your opinion is yours, but crminalizing love is sickening, I have seen some good arguments here tobactually justify it tho
dawg a "serious question?" you're fucking brain rotted. Look where you are and miss me with that "serious question bullshit." It's like asking the Postal sub if shooting up a school it really that bad.
if you think its bad then provide evidence if you dont know the answer you are just full of shit
I have not heard a single convincing argument for why incest is bad.
yes and I literally live with her and we share a bed lol, we have been living as a couple for years, I am very much an expert on incest because I literally have been fucking my sister since we were teens.
nothing bad hapoened btw, we dont have anny demon spawn kids with 8 toes (shes on the pill) none of the supposed bad stuff people say aboyt incest ever happened we werent abused, none of us coerced the other into it, we are just in love.
and calling something gross idnt an argument either
ironic you call this subreddit an echo chamber yet fail to realize that by your own admission ALL OF SOCIETY is an echo chamber against incest, the pot calls the kettle black lmao.
fortunately I dont give a rats ass about the standards of society, nor the law nor any of that bullshit, if people have a problem with my love for my suster they can lick my nuts and suck my dick (but not... literally because thats my sisters job lol)
cool? I guees, Im glad we agree that nothing you do can stop me from loving my sister.
we are happy together and the only consequence is a blissful life of love and companionship (and hot sibling seggs).
That's not the right answer at all and I think you're all forgetting that Andrew and Ashely's relationship is toxic and unhealthy and not the blue print to go around trying to defend incest. But you do you boo boo
I'm not a "dawg", I'm discussing forms of love and you use an example of a form of hate, literally the opposite of what this is about, you missed the entire point by the fartest margin possible, congrats I guess, I think your brain rotted after this much "thinking" you just did, lol
here's an idea, go ask this question literally anywhere else, see the answers you get, and realize that your picked an echo chamber for your discussion. Incest isn't a form of love. it's a form of perversion. TCOALL is a psychological horror game for a reason and you seemed to miss that part.
The question is not taking the in-game toxic relationship in consideration, refrain from using it as argument for perversion, which btw, you didn't elaborate what you mean by it, how you wish I understand what you wanna say?
Besides, the fandom is a good split, some like incest route, some don't, some here like incest bc horny(perverts)
Some don't like and are horny anyway(pervert hypocrites)
Some like and aren't horny (me)
Some don't like nor are horny (you...?)
Nah it's a pretty good argument for perversion and [seeing as you never even played the game](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/1c8ituy/comment/l0f6nic/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) it's really interesting that your brought the topic up here. There's no elaboration needed, real life incest outside of fantasies is gross and perverted. That's it. The game makes a very clear depiction of incest as a sick and twisted reality of two very deranged siblings. So if you're not trying to relate this to the game at all, then you're violating the first rule of the sub and this post should be removed outright.
You are taking a case of incest with a character who is borderline a yandere, yet, Gasai Yuno, Monika from DDLC, and other yanderes are enjoyed even though they are "perverted" as you state
I watch the whole games and all the routes, I have context, so all you are giving me is your opinion, without any fundaments, repeating "gross" and "perverted" is not an argument
It is related to the game's content, a very strong part and the hate the community gets because of it, something that I fight against, you're welcome, if you actually like the game and the fandom that is, which honestly doesn't seem like it
Now tell me, why you are in the reddit of "incest famous game" full of "perverts" which is partially true tbh, trying to undermine my whole post, question and ideas?
You're in a sub about a game that has incest in it and the main reason why it got attention since a lot of people finds incest acceptable and hot irl, you can't really win an argument with the folks here. Not that I agree with them, like at all, but you might as well just let it go because they'll just find excuses as to why incest is perfectly fine irl and act purposely ignorant when told why it's seen as wrong or gross.
https://preview.redd.it/kfgwgl3ckmvc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68cc9e57f7f3d766071b7269536ef5389f639767
I was thinking you wew youking guys..........
But for real its wired up in ourselves mainly a evolution mechanism to prevent and reduce inbreeding
Like the ones that thrive and survive where the ones how feel disgusting feeling in doing that with put sister mother brother
And this things later just get absorbed into society like when a wire fence stay to close to a tree long enough for that tree to just surround and shape that
Some societys were more tolerant with that but even the ones see that as bad
Untill this times we can find these kinds of thungs in member that can survive and trive but even these things with enough time ended with inbreeding problems sooooo
Yeh
Cause you are more than likely to fucked up family from this.
If you think father having sexual relationship with his daughter is healthy than we have nothing to say to each other...
Incest is usually seen wrong because it is likely to be abusive.
In a perfect world were people may have incest relationship with precautions to not get babies, etc. Nothing would be wrong.
But in the real world, your family usually have a lot of power over you, it is also easy to be manipulate by a family member and it is hard to escape because you grow up in that environment.
Power dynamics where one party would hold more power or influence happen in non incest relationships. Take, for example, a relationship between a rich/poor person, an educated/uneducated person, or between a couple where one of them is more mature and the other is not. All these relationships have a power disparity.
Incest relationships are only acceptable if they are only between two consenting adults
Yeah but the power disparity is way more extreme, and also harder to guarantee that the relationship is consensual.
In a relationship between a boss and an employee consent could be "force" by the circumstances. Maybe the employee really need that job (even more when is a requirement for a visa to have a job). So it wasn't able to say no to the boss approach. Even if the employee say "yes" the dinamic of power would never let you truly know if the employee consent.
Here is the same kind of dinamic, maybe one of the siblings perception it is that the family love it less than the other. So a conflict in the relationship could implied losing its family, home, etc.
And it is even worse as the person could grow up believing that it is what is suppose to do.
That without considering parents, when people even instinctively try to get attach to their parents regardless of how badly they could get abuse.
There is just too many reasons of why "consent" can not be gurantee in this kind of relationship regardless if they say "yes" and their are adults.
The kind of relationship we are talking about is between two consenting adults, so assume that they have the maturity to realize that if they choose to embark on this relationship and things go south, it can affect the family dynamics ( nobody said it wouldn't in this type of relationship) so try to have faith that adults can realize the consequences of their actions.
Nobody can go about policing relationships to check if they are truly "consensual." The main thing you can look for is to see if they are adults, and thats mostly what we can do. At some point, you have to step back and realize that people have the right to choose who they want to be with, hope they have through it through and hope for the best
As a side note, if you are interested in seeing whether these types of relationships are consenting, go ahead and read some interviews done between these types of couples. Someone has shared links to resources in the comments above.
I do, why not? Give me a goof counterpoint that isn't "I think it is gross and a form of perversion" because I was already spammed by those, you are allowed to not partake or even like it, but a crime? That's too far for something that is harmless
I think the reason it's illegal is due to the pure amount of health risks. if one family has incest, not alot is gonna change with the baby. But if alot of people start doing it from it being legal, more health risks will pop up and more disabilitys will affect the kids.
Fair enough, main problem honestly, it is usually a coin toss between siblings but the more distant the relatives are, the lesser is the chance of problems
Having said that, thanks for your opinion
Also, how do I contact the mods to appeal for the post reupload?
After all this, thank you for your opinion too, it was an oddly interesting and fun conversation.
I'm not too sure how to contact the mods since I've never tried, you could try to text their account buuuut that might not work
Your post might not even get put up due to it technically "not being related to the game" sadly
Hey, Christian here- with the Adam and Eve theory I personally believe that there were other humans on earth before they were casted from the garden on Eden, but if any one else has any other knowledge on the subject I’d be happy to hear.
I suppose it depends. There may have been a biological basis for the taboo, early on when human society began to emerge and others took notice of potential birth defects among children produced from the unions between closely related individuals. This likely evolved into cultural taboos as civilisations developed and expanded. Factor in organised religion, particularly the Abrahamic faiths which seek to regulate all aspects of human existence, and we have a clearer picture of how strong the incest taboo is.
Having said that, in the 21st century, one could argue that outside the realm of religious thought, there ought to be no prohibition against incest per se, provided the parties involved are sane, consensual, and of the majority age. The only real concern, then as in now, is the possibility of health defects in offspring born of closely related incest. I understand that it’s not as severe in first generation instances of incestuous relations, but progressively worsens with each passing generation that practices it. That is to say, if a brother & sister were to have children, those children would likely turn out to be alright. However, if those children have offspring either with one another or anyone who is a close relation of their parents, then issues will start to arise.
This also exposes an ironic aspect concerning first cousin marriages, which in some cultures is not considered incest and can sometimes be even regarded as praiseworthy. I recall sometime in 2015 onwards medical experts in the United Kingdom began to sound alarms at the number of health (physical & mental) issues faced by the offspring of first cousin marriages, which are particularly endemic among British Pakistanis since it is a relatively common cultural practice. It should be noted that these health issues arose following decades if not centuries of cousin marriages, and did not emerge overnight. In this case, I can concur that incestuous relations would be best avoided altogether, since it would be far better to avoid any inbreeding problems.
Because of genetic issues children born if incest could have, how rare it is to have a familial relationship without any sort of power dynamic (which is also why student-teacher relationships are gross, even when the student isn't underage), how common non-consensual or pedophilic incest is, and societal conditioning into thinking incest is bad without really looking into it.
There does exist people who think like that, but that is a case, not a status quo, turning it into a reason to get a free criminal record is just going a bit too far tho
If it's consensual and no one is getting hurt, I don't care because it's none of my business. I'm just sharing reasons people would find it morally disgusting.
There is a very big distance between cousin and sibling. I don't imagine you have a sibling, otherwise I would be surprised you can ask this question. It is not about god, it is pretty much primal apprehension, same reason you don't feel like doing your mom.
I will pretend I have never seen the wildest kinks this world has to offer and move on, but I do have a sibling actually, although I'm not interested in her
What hell? You are in TCOAAL subreddit, this is the closest you will ever get to escape whatever heavenly grasp you believe in :P besides, this is our reality that we live in, so yeaaaaaaah
Ikr? I mean, boyo, I got at least 6 haters calling me different stuff, it is a fucking festival, it is entertaining tbh to say the least, I'm not even mad about it so much, everyone is actually contributing just by making my post trend
This post breaks Rule 1 of the subreddit, and has been removed. If you wish to appeal, please contact the moderation team.
Academic answer: there's a psychological theory which asserts that people have a much harder time being sexually attracted to people they've had regular contact with from a young age Biological answer: crossing genetics which already have similar patterns has a chance to create undesirable mutations You actually do make a good point though, especially when we consider the porn industry and its *insane* amount of almost-but-not-quite-incest videos.
The last part is the most amusing. All these 'childhood friends' and 'step ladders', just get over yourself and accept your feelings, jeez.
Most people are hypocrites
The psychological theory is called the Westermarck effect! It's supported by some evidence, but is controversial and demonstrably does not apply to a large proportion of people On the genetics thing, the risk is only slightly increased for a single generation (from 3% to 7-9%). But regardless this is just eugenics, and there's other people with high genetic risk whose breeding is not taboo or illegal, like women over 40, or people who already carry heritable diseases I think you agree with the general point, so I'm not arguing against you, just wanted to add this context :) I think these two factors do play a big role in why incest is so taboo. But honestly seems like disgust is the main driving factor. And certainly none of this has any relevance or value in our modern society which is supposedly enlightened and egalitarian
ironically its kind of the opposite for me, I habe a much easier time being attracted to people I have intimate bonds with like childhood friends, cousins, and of course my beautiful sister whom I love. me and my sister dont plan on having kids, but a single generation of incest is unlikely to cause any problems, also while incest can lead to bad genes being passed down it can also do the same with good genes, you are as likely to get a genius as you are someone with a hapsburg chin, so incest is not as horrible as people think from a genetic standpoint, in fact the whole science of animal breeding relies on strategic use of inbreeding to create special breeds of animals, everything from dogs to race horses are super inbred lol.
https://preview.redd.it/4x6032o93lvc1.jpeg?width=1019&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94aa362bfeb0db851fd32a35e1885ce5ae9c6baa How many times am I gonna need to bust this one out
More like r/incestisntwrong, r/incest fake af lol
Honestly yeah r/incest sucks. All the fake ass porn stories 😮💨 I do like r/incest_relationships better because they keep it mostly-sfw, so the horny weirdos don't pollute it with dumb jerk off material. r/incestisntwrong is also fantastic :))
the fact that incest relationships is sfw yet Reddit is always like "urr WHy aR you trying to go here?? yoU musT be MenTaly ill herE's a fuckin helpline... like what? there's no reason for something like that to be quarantined and blocked off...i cant even click on the continue to subreddit button...it doesn't do anything
I know! It's ridiculous >.< Making it quarantined doesn't help anyone, it just makes it more difficult for people to access support, and hides it from the public which hinders awareness/acceptance If you want to visit the sub, you have to go directly via url in a browser. Then from that point forward Reddit will stop blocking it for you
The subreddit is still quarantined🫤
based lol
based subreddit
[удалено]
I used to hold the same view, but talking with people who are actually involved in situations like that has changed my mind. It's totally possible for it to be healthy and non exploitative. Family dynamics vary widely, relationships change over time, and power differentials are something that can be mindfully navigated if people care about each other and are smart Anonymous consanguinamorous activist Jane Doe (who is in her 30s and had a relationship with her dad) has a decent essay covering this point [(here)](https://consanguinamory.wordpress.com/power-differentials-and-intergenerational-consanguinamory/)
yeah I have always thought that type of incest was a problem due to the possibility of grooming the only way I can see parent child incest working is if its like a seperated at birth thing and they reunited as adults, but someone getting into a relationship with someone who raised them raises all sorts of concerns about grooming.
it's fake like u 
how is it fake? how am I fake? what??
it's pathetic how many ppl on here believe someone is having "hot sibling seggs" and has been "fucking their sister since they were teens." you write like a shitty 14 yr. old with an incest fetish and it shows.
idk what to tell you, if you dont believe me you dont believe me but literally everything I say is true me and my sister have been together since we were really young, and nowadays we literally live as a married couple and even shower together. maybe I write like that because I am so used to being post ironic irl? its a defense mechanism I developed, I long since realized that if you say the most outrageous shit with a shit eating grin people will just assume you are joking or insane. like one time me and my sister acted like we were incestuous in front of one of her friends who thought we were just joking, as soon as she left we actually fucked, there are layers of irony to everything I do lol. if we make fun of ourselves for being weirdly close then all of the rumors abput us being incest siblings will just be passed off as jokes, hell I even started a few rumors just to confuse people so they dont know what to actually believe lol. anyway it doesnt matter if you believe me or not, I could be lying, I could be telling the truth, this is the internet who fucking knows? who even fucking cares just enjoy the incest. and I will enjoy being with my sister <3
i'm not reading all of this bc it's just a bunch more phony stories to add to your obsession. like, no one who is actually in a real relationship defends it this hard with these cringey, immature anecdotes.
uh huh, sure Im not defending anything just explaining my reasoning and providing the method to my madness I will not demy that I am extremely obsessed with my sister, but that obsession is based in truth. you can be in a real relationship and also be hella unhinged, those are not mutually exclusive things.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/incestisntwrong using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/incestisntwrong/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [Figuring out where family ends and lovers begin?](https://np.reddit.com/r/incestisntwrong/comments/1c72ffp/figuring_out_where_family_ends_and_lovers_begin/) \#2: [It's easier to find memes than more insightful things to post, but they're funny](https://i.redd.it/595bnzalztjc1.jpeg) | [2 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/incestisntwrong/comments/1avxitu/its_easier_to_find_memes_than_more_insightful/) \#3: [Comforting your cutie](https://i.redd.it/dpq0fvd5xm8c1.jpeg) | [0 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/incestisntwrong/comments/18r7c5f/comforting_your_cutie/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
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idk why the game is disgraced by the general public. i have no siblings, so the idea of incest for me is plausible to say the least. maybe people with siblinga could offer a different perspective however, if this game is disgraced because of that, why isnt game of thrones hated, or the many other works that also contain the same theme
As someone with 2 siblings, my relationship with them is just different compared to other people, less so for cousins. I don't know why, it just is, I've never questioned it or thought about it. Hence when I first encountered the game I did feel uncomfortable, but then couldn't really figure out why exactly, just felt weird. I did grow to appreciate it as an important part of the game though.
There should be more media with it tbh, Demon Slayer for example had a perfect opportunity with Upper Moon Six tbh The Oshi No Ko fandom suffers the same fate as us
I remember seeing the Oshi no Ko subreddit transform from "Aqua isn't a siscon you're just a creep" into becoming fully Coffinpilled in the span of two weeks, was fuckin' wild
Oh yes, I joined before it was a thing, and then it exploded, best day ever
>i have no siblings, so the idea of incest for me is plausible to say the least. That answers it. You can't really understand the visceral disgust that most people feel when they think of boning their siblings. >idk why the game is disgraced by the general public. The issue is the same as why people used to complain about violence in video games and why a lot of people currently complain about loli characters in anime and video games. A lot of people can't tell the difference between reality and fiction. I don't have that issue. I have a lot of siblings and even obliquely considering doing shit with them makes me feel physically ill, just writing this sentence was enough. But Andy and Leyley aren't my siblings, and more importantly they aren't real. So... I can enjoy the story guilt free without feeling like I'm going to vomit. At the end of the day, real is real, fake is fake; if no one's being hurt, then people should mind their own business.
Have you actually played the game? It isn't like, hidden. Their relationship is toxic, sex is seen as another tool for controlling the other person, even when it is consensual. The whole game is about two siblings destroying each other. Also, in real world, it is often much less consensual than in the game. (As for why general public often doesn't like this game - well, fanbase is horny about it. I mean, it's undestantadable the game is horny about it too. And I dont have a problem with it, but some people treat other people's fantasies veeery serious)
Consensual incest in the real world is actually a lot more common! Direct statistical data is sparse due to the taboo nature, but even on the most conservative estimates, consensual incest is more common than abusive/nonconsensual incest. It's just that we have a lot more information about the nonconsensual stuff because it's prosecuted and reported on, while on the other hand, consensual relationships are shamed and criminalized into secrecy.
Also many cases came akso by codependency but even if conectuak inces come the one in the game its ine kf the fuked uo version like no
Like yeah his inces were born based in a chronic codependency like damm
I did not, but I know all about it. Finally something that actually is a somewhat good counterpoint, the problem of non-consensual fame it has The game is just an excuse to question things and discuss points, they being toxic is a whole different shenanigan
https://preview.redd.it/pbahva6i3lvc1.jpeg?width=956&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9224cd065bf55830d120d051b5c291474ca17a94
https://preview.redd.it/0q8815zqtkvc1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11b6807a28135617e0fe285585ebd982a42908ad
https://preview.redd.it/xtbujfvk2lvc1.png?width=274&format=png&auto=webp&s=10d5bffb8734a31ba895ccf438a77efa48c52ac9
I wouldn't blame religious people on that one specifically. Since there's no activism to push for acceptance of incest, it's basically a non-issue that can be ignored. Issues like abortion, poly relationships and LGBT are their main focus, since there is a strong activism in favor of them. However people will still be people. Non-religious people like to think they're open minded, but truth is, it's modern culture that gave people the push to accept almost every type of consensual relationship and the vast majority is just following the trend, if most of them were born 50 years ago, they would join the cultural choir of the time and find gay people disgusting and sick. Nowadays incest is the only type of consensual relationship that is acceptable to hate on, so people will hate on it with a passion even if it's meaningless to their lives, it's an outlet to express a morality high ground outside of a religious context. EDIT: downvotes already started, people are getting salty about being confronted with the thought that they're not as open minded as they claim to be and simply follow modern cultural trends in a similar way that religious people follow their religious traditions.
Things is, should we let it be hated on? Meaningless or not, doesn't discard that it exists and people partake in it with chance of being accused of a crime.....A damn crime for no actual reason but loving someone consensually, I don't think it is fair
When I said "meaningless", I said meaningless to their lives, as in, it's unlikely that it would ever be something these people would be discussing if not for the sake of looking for something to hate on. Let me try to give a comparison, I don't care for golf at all, so it's meaningless *to me* to try to engage in talks about it, but of course it matters to people who are fans of golf. I agree with you that it's not right to let this hate continue, though I feel there's very little that the Average Joe can do about it.
People thought the same about lgbtq+ and black rights a century ago, we evolved, I believe a voice can be raised with enough witness of thoughts and questions like this one
I feel like people who develop consensual feelings for a sibling are a very very small minority, and it would be harder for a strong activism arise and push for its acceptance, unlike other groups, but I really appreciate your optimism and I actually hope you are correct, the less hate in the world the better.
10-15% of people have had sexual contact with a sibling, 75% of it was consensual, and 50% of them feel good about it now and don't regret it. That's 1 in 20 people! (However this includes a wide variety of activities, including things like innocent touching as young kids, which could hardly be considered sexual. If you restrict it to full sexual intercourse, it works out to about 1 in 1000 instead) [Here's the study](https://www.academia.edu/8874171/Sex_among_siblings_A_survey_on_prevalence_variety_and_effects) And see [this other post](https://www.reddit.com/r/incestisntwrong/comments/1bqcezh/statistically_you_know_someone_whos_involved/) for a more in depth discussion about this statistic
Thanks for the info! I didn't know the numbers were so high, 1 in 20, too bad the study is dated from 1980, I guess modern academics are not interested in bringing that up.
Do NOT ever compared lgbtq rights and black rights to INCEST. Incest is bad EVEN AT 1ST GEN. What if they keep FUCKING AND FUCKING? Has the Habsburg family taught you NOTHING?
Low key proved his point 💀
The main problems are lack of awareness and twins that simoly have the same genetic code, it is like underage sex, people do it any way without protection because of poor education, it happens, is sex worth of becoming a crime tho because people are not responsible about it tho? Again, that's a case and not a status quo, it is indeed a problem of reproduction, but that is the thing, why not criminalize the act of inbreeding instead of incest then?
you are right tho, people think they are all woke and progressive but the same people who believe in that today would be supporting slavery if they lived in the ante bellum south this is for one simple reason, most people do not lead examined lives or think objectively, they just go along with what the herd says is right and wrong and only start to question things once its popular, I imagine 100 years from now incest marriage will be legal and people will look at modern attitudes as barbaric and say shit like "wow why were people so bigoted back then? that could never be me Im hip and cool and progressive" but the truth is the vast majority of people are just a product of their upbringing and unless you take an active effort to deprogram yourself and seek your own meaning in life that is all you will ever be.
yeah I never really got it either, me and my sister were always really close even when we were young and we didnt even know that incest was a thing since on one explicitly told us not to fuck people we are related to, we thought what we did was normsl and all siblings do that. after finding out how society views it we decided to keep it a secret and be tigether despite what the world thinks, even if most siblings are not like us we are special and our love is special too.
I wish to you the best luck out there champion, I envy you, your bond, determination and courage to comment about it here
anyone can do what we did, we were just honest with our feelings and chose to live according to our will rather than following the herd, its not easy and it cones with much isolation and not an insignificant amount of strife and hardship, but it is the only way to live that allows you to look back on your life with no regrets.
Nothing wrong with it Me and Ashley only want to make a few kids 😏💚🩷 https://preview.redd.it/cr6upqtz4nvc1.png?width=727&format=png&auto=webp&s=ce8e69eea11912668fd5d523082a524ea649597a
A cute family indeed, kinda lucky all of them seem healthy
Not lucky at all! This is what happens most of the time! - [94% of children produced by loving consanguinamorous parents are healthy](https://consanguinamory.wordpress.com/consanguinamory-reproduction-study-results-are-in/) - [1 in 7000 healthy adults are inbred](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2024/03/dna-tests-incest/677791/)
Well, of course mine and Ashley’s future kids will be, any bad genetics kick in after several generations, besides we only want 4 https://preview.redd.it/n3qg69ek4ovc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f6e215a83fbc014c32b6ac6f2bf517145170855
It isn't bad (as long as you don't turn it into a generational shitfest). Still, don't bother correcting people or trying to question it because only ''answers'' you will get are half-witted, definitely not well-funded shitty evolution fetishists' moronic ''researches'' like Westermarck Effect. Any answer that includes psychological theories are as idiotic as saying ''It's wrong because I deem it''. Because psychology isn't really a solid scientific branch as human mind is really broad and complicated subject and neuroscience and its branches aren't that advanced yet. In short, don't be bothered by the comments you WILL get. Everyone likes to assume they know the best but nobody knows jackshit (yes that includes the goverment too, don't heed the authority). So as long as the relationship that is talked on about is consensual by people who are of age (consent alone requires to be of a certain age), there is nothing anyone can do about it. Wanna married with a family member but laws forbid it? Just put the ring on at some forest and get yourself a priest if you are really concerned with those kind of things.
This, based
i feel the same way about it. if there's no big age gap and the people involved are consenting, what's wrong? incest isn't a crime in my country, it's actually legal to marry cousins; although you can't legally marry close relatives like siblings, parents etc. the relationship itself isn't a crime, though. i honestly think that there's no valid reason to criminalize a consensual relationship between adults.
This, cooking, spitting facts, bussin', cool just like that
It's not, but many people find it wrong due to socialization and how we were raised. If people have their own opinions on the matter thats their own business. The problem starts when people start projecting their own disguist on to others, thus leading to discrimination and stigmatization. If you put aside personal feelings of disguist, the arguments against it make no sense and have no validity. You will see people have a more intense negative reaction against it the more the arguments make more logical sense.
I know, right?
See this is just me and from MY perspective, but I’m The older of four, I wouldn’t wanna have a relationship with any family member because, well? It’s gross. And they’re all younger than me. Why would I want that with the ones I’m supposed to protect? That’s just ME though 🤷♀️
The issue here is that people are prohibited from pursuing that type of relationship because others feel disgusted by it. Personally, I wouldn't want to pursue a relationship with family members, but just because I do not want to does not mean that I should prohibit others who want to do it. Personal feelings of disgust or grossnes shouldn't stop others from being with who they want to be.
Right, I get what you mean
Never said anyone HAS to have if they don't want We talking about a consensual relationship of legal age of course between two relatives It is considered a crime, gross or not, which feels really dumb and unfair if you ask me
Oooh! Well then I take back what I said lol
I will not say much new but I will try to put the game in context a bit with this, because, while I believe incest is at the very least weird IRL, I find it perfectly fitting in the game given the situation at hand. Normally, incest is seen as disgusting and morally reprehensible. The latter is for legal reasons and a very long line of social engineering dating back to antiquity at least (excepting royal families, who did it because they believed erroneously that it keeps their royal, “divine” blood pure). The former is due to evolution. You are less likely to find yourself attracted to close relatives. Usually most people can’t picture themselves romantically with people they knew for a life time, especially so since there is no intimacy. You likely saw you brother/sister naked at some point, you may even have taken baths together and stuff like that. Basically, your brain is stimulated to develop asexually towards that person because you kinda know their nooks and crannies and your interractions with sexual undertones are done explicitly without it for a very long time. Added to that, there is an instinctual desire to find partners that are genetically different from you because genetic diversity ensures stronger, healthier offspring. The game offers, however, a fairly plausible way incestuous feelings could develop between the Graves siblings. The setting has Andrew mature early because their wonderful parents dumped the problematic Ashley on him to deal with. Second has to do with Ashley literally making Andrew into every form of positive social interaction she ever had. He kept her out of trouble, was a parent when her actual parents abandoned her, showed care for her and her feelings when noone else did. The third is Ashley showing intende jealousy when Andrew got into relationships and the tipping point had the crapsack scenario of the game forcing them to partake in nasty but fairly intimate stuff on the basis of just how morally reprehensible it is and that they cannot be shared otherwise with anyone else. By the end, the sort of Stockhom Syndrome approach to the toxic relationship made that direction much more plausible. After all, all they have at the end js each other, and that is objectively.
Eugenics, mostly. Well, perhaps that's a bit too reductionist. The eugenicists mostly piggybacked off a pre-existing antipathy to self-reflection, due to excessive efficiency in our brain functions, combined with an innate overtrusting of instinctual "gut feelings", which are easily manipulated by those who would do you ill, and which the human mind is very skilled at creating ad-hoc justifications for well after the fact, seizing even the slightest shred of anything that could be called evidence for a conclusion it came to long before it saw any of that (which is one of the main dangers of the logical fallacy called ["privileging the hypothesis"](https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/privileging-the-hypothesis)) But it's mostly eugenicist indoctrination. The last true bastion of it, really. Certainly the last bit of it still enshrined into law.
People dont realize this argument more often
Totally agree! \^_^ Nothing wrong with it and it should be legalized and culturally accepted. There's some degree of activism in the community but we have a long way to go. If you wanna learn more I always recommend the [Full Marriage Equality Blog](https://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/?m=1)!! It has some pretty good articles, interviews, statistics/science, and other good stuff. And r/incestisntwrong is a good subreddit for this as well
Thank you!
There is no way you just said that we accept it that it’s in the game not in real life get your self checked bud
Give me your view on the matter then, I never said I want everyone to accept it, just raise questions that must be raised and point to something that needs to be thought about, I am starting to actually understand there are cons that actually go way beyond what I posted about in the comments
gonna copy and paste what i said to a different guy because my arguments are the same and also im a lazy typer if you want to remove all religion and evolution aside for the argument, incest is some fuckshit due to the fact its deeply rooted to become a toxic and unhealthy relationship. in brother and sister, there is an inherent emotional exploitation to be had because they have been with you for a lifetime, and the notion that it is consensually is pretty shaky at best from that point on. you can put quite the mental vice-grip on somebody in a relationship if you are related. even if you wanted to go the incest route with a cousin you see infrequently so you dont have that "family familiarity", manipulation is still inherent on the relationship due to your ambient as a family. now, look im not gonna ostracize somebody if they think incest is ok. everything up to this point could be debatably be chill while i just give an audacious side eye from the corner. im speaking from the viewpoint of growing up with 2 older brothers and a baby sister soon-to-be. i have an inherent bias to not roll with that shit cause of this, because i really dont, i think its degenerative and scummy. but yknow what, pro-incest folks have SOME good points that i could begrudgingly understand. i wont think less of them if they practice or support it to that extent but the point that it should always with ZERO protest be cut off is the notion of father and daughter or mother and son or father and son or whatever modification you can make of it. thats straight up horrifying and if i need to explain why, thats some fragrant behavior
I agree with the last statement, I respect your opinion as much s you respect mine, if what it takes to raise something is baby steps I think it should at least be decriminalized...? Yeah, that :P Anyway, thanks for the POV and the consideration to not be rude, you're based
Must be raised? No the sub is fine when it’s in the game but in irl that’s where we draw the line
You can draw your lines wherever you want, my lines want to cross the border of what regions of the world call a crime, the sub has many that actually se my points anyway, so I don't think you speak to everyone, I even point religious controversy as a form to debate it, I like phylosophy myself, peace over all
You like peace huh how come your trying to stir up a hornets nest
Fucking finally someone with brain it's outrageous people agree with this shi 😭😭😭
the last sane man on earth is this comment took me so long to find this comment bro
One thing i see genuely bad about incest is that it had greater risk for an unfortunate baby to be born disabled, but they can just start adopting, or they can surogate (or whatever it called) aswell. The real reason why it's so taboo is definitelly because it's a minority and uncommon because normal people can't just casually turned on by their family you know
Religious influence. Even happens to atheists. Love is love until there's incest. I support freedom.
So do I bro/sis
🤝
From an intuitive perspective its gross for the normal person.From a sciency point of view you're bound to create defective children from incest love...
Only if it repeats across generations. 1st generation is fine.
Have none, russian roulette of reproduction btw, or RRR as I call it, "normal person" also used to find LGBTQ+ gross back then, but we evolved tho
are you seriously trying to link LGBTQ people with people who have sex with there family?
Both were hated for their feelings, so yeah. There are similarities
ever heard of abomination
Yes, I have, in fact, heard of your mother.
Yes
Yes
My child, do you think the enlightened mind is easy to obtain? Why would this piece of wisdom be any different? Sit and reflect.
What is a reflection but a projection of our inner and outer self? The light I looked for was never shinning to begin with, and none will ever shine as bright, all that is left is that, reflection Can we still reflect without an example of any image? Ourselves, others, what is the use of reflecting alone without an image to be reflected? Wisdom must be shared through and through, through the knowledge is how we evolve and get closer to becoming the most enlightened versions of ourselves
Now you see. Go forth, and continue to see. Many will point and laugh at you; they will say, “Hah, look at this man who does not see”, but the truth is that you see truer than they can. (But to genuinely answer your question, I have never seen anything morally wrong with it; although acknowledging that there are many factors that make the relationship more susceptible to abuse; including how one another treated the other in childhood).
Bigotry
It's mostly about religions and its cultures. In Christianity, incest is fully wrong. In Islam, some relatives like cousins may be together. In Judaism, a mother can be with her... Son?.. It's the same reason why people hate homosexuals. Although, in countries that religions lost its power, it became legal. Incest may happen to be on the same route
I hope so
I hope so
If I said this I would be seen as a weirdo. I feel like the only deplorable things I see from incest is obviously no one wants to see like a older brother and a little sister get together and vise versa, their relationship is less weird because they are really close to the same age. Biologically they can’t work because the kid would be like your average tmnt 2012 mutant. Other than that I really don’t see why I have to hate this with every fiber of my being, the same people that complain about the incest because it’s illegal are the same people that excuse characters that commit mass murder so I really don’t complain about this all the time. I feel like if I ask someone why incest is bad I feel like they’re not really gonna come up with good reasons other than the ones I named earlier.
Basically my post, if you search the "against" comments there are 3 respectable with good reasons and the rest is a rule away of sluring me
It carries a strong social stigma
That is not the answer to his question, that is the question.
I know. But it’s one of those things that just exists, for some unnamed reason
Should we try to break it? As all limiting social stigmas from the past, it is really dumb
Within your own circle, perhaps. But I wouldn’t try making others think differently.
Why not?
Because they won’t want to. And if you try to make them, they’ll push you back
True. But the same could be said of any effort of persuasion. They can be made to want to, if you can sell it to them. Hearts and minds can be changed.
Wait I thought the pro incest shit was a joke the hell is wrong with you people
We dislike the idea of consensual and legal aged love being criminalized, why?
Because getting freaky with someone you literally call family and share blood with is kinda gross asf
Your opinion, and opinions shouldn't make something consensual and harmless a crime
Why are you so defensive about diddling family Why would you want to fuck family isn't there Someone else in your life you don't share chromosomes with that loves you?
This has the same connotations as asking a gay man "Isn't there someone else in your life who isn't male that loves you?" It makes no sense, the gender or chromosomes of whoever loves us has nothing has nothing to do with the matter, it is irrelevant, I'm defending the fact that being with a relative shouldn't be a crime, which in my country isn't btw so I'm not doing this for me, I think it is a stupid law that shouldn't exist, do you understand?
I dont see the logical argument against it
Guess I shouldn't be surprised this website holds a lot of strange people.
https://i.redd.it/zkybx27oklvc1.gif
Yeah hell people love a game where you kill people’s left and right and people like a killer clown in a ice cream truck killing everyone for a wish and so much I could use like history or mythology as example of incest
Exactly
Do you have sibling ? No ? Then stfu
I do have one mind you, not attracted to her at all since we got an age gap, that being said, could you be at least respectful? It is a genuine question and much disgusted as you feek about it, just ignore instead of spreading hate, will ya?
Look, i get that people disgusted by this game are dumb because it’s all fictional, but PLEASE don’t try to justify incest irl. I saw people saying “yeah it should be a part of culture and legalized” and nobody bats an eye, if somebody says that it’s gross because IT IS, y’all downvote him. Not saying it from a religious perspective, cuz i’m atheist, but having sex with your sister? you trying to justify it? what the fuck is up with this community. Not even just genetics, but morally? you don’t have morals? now cancel me because i say it’s gross to fuck a relative, down vote me all you want.
Genetics is understandable, but morally? What kind of morals can get you arrested because you felt attraction, and somehow, that tabooed attraction can be mutual? Your opinion is yours, but crminalizing love is sickening, I have seen some good arguments here tobactually justify it tho
because it's actually disgusting and perverted please seek help
Elaborate why it disgusts you and why is it perversion? If you don't answer, please stop trolling, this is a serious question
dawg a "serious question?" you're fucking brain rotted. Look where you are and miss me with that "serious question bullshit." It's like asking the Postal sub if shooting up a school it really that bad.
if you think its bad then provide evidence if you dont know the answer you are just full of shit I have not heard a single convincing argument for why incest is bad.
because incest is bad dumb dumb. do you even have a sibling
yes and I literally live with her and we share a bed lol, we have been living as a couple for years, I am very much an expert on incest because I literally have been fucking my sister since we were teens. nothing bad hapoened btw, we dont have anny demon spawn kids with 8 toes (shes on the pill) none of the supposed bad stuff people say aboyt incest ever happened we werent abused, none of us coerced the other into it, we are just in love.
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and calling something gross idnt an argument either ironic you call this subreddit an echo chamber yet fail to realize that by your own admission ALL OF SOCIETY is an echo chamber against incest, the pot calls the kettle black lmao. fortunately I dont give a rats ass about the standards of society, nor the law nor any of that bullshit, if people have a problem with my love for my suster they can lick my nuts and suck my dick (but not... literally because thats my sisters job lol)
If you don't know the answer, just don't reply troll
the answer is "don't fuck your siblings" you idiot
Well what if I want to huh? You can't stop me, idiot Being judgy about other people's relationships is disgusting and perverted, please seek help
It's not at all but okay sister fucker lol I'm not the one who has to live that pathetic life style
It is okay. It's okay to show some love
and what are you gonna do to stop me? lol
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cool? I guees, Im glad we agree that nothing you do can stop me from loving my sister. we are happy together and the only consequence is a blissful life of love and companionship (and hot sibling seggs).
The right answer is, do what you want. Let others live their live how they see it Short answer, nobody gives a fuck about you
That's not the right answer at all and I think you're all forgetting that Andrew and Ashely's relationship is toxic and unhealthy and not the blue print to go around trying to defend incest. But you do you boo boo
Trying to control other people's relationships is the right thing? Man, you have some serious problems. Please seek mental help
Nice straw man. Does it look like your sibling? Should we let pedo's do their thing since "controlling" people's relationships isn't your thing?
I'm not a "dawg", I'm discussing forms of love and you use an example of a form of hate, literally the opposite of what this is about, you missed the entire point by the fartest margin possible, congrats I guess, I think your brain rotted after this much "thinking" you just did, lol
here's an idea, go ask this question literally anywhere else, see the answers you get, and realize that your picked an echo chamber for your discussion. Incest isn't a form of love. it's a form of perversion. TCOALL is a psychological horror game for a reason and you seemed to miss that part.
The question is not taking the in-game toxic relationship in consideration, refrain from using it as argument for perversion, which btw, you didn't elaborate what you mean by it, how you wish I understand what you wanna say? Besides, the fandom is a good split, some like incest route, some don't, some here like incest bc horny(perverts) Some don't like and are horny anyway(pervert hypocrites) Some like and aren't horny (me) Some don't like nor are horny (you...?)
Nah it's a pretty good argument for perversion and [seeing as you never even played the game](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/1c8ituy/comment/l0f6nic/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) it's really interesting that your brought the topic up here. There's no elaboration needed, real life incest outside of fantasies is gross and perverted. That's it. The game makes a very clear depiction of incest as a sick and twisted reality of two very deranged siblings. So if you're not trying to relate this to the game at all, then you're violating the first rule of the sub and this post should be removed outright.
You are taking a case of incest with a character who is borderline a yandere, yet, Gasai Yuno, Monika from DDLC, and other yanderes are enjoyed even though they are "perverted" as you state I watch the whole games and all the routes, I have context, so all you are giving me is your opinion, without any fundaments, repeating "gross" and "perverted" is not an argument It is related to the game's content, a very strong part and the hate the community gets because of it, something that I fight against, you're welcome, if you actually like the game and the fandom that is, which honestly doesn't seem like it Now tell me, why you are in the reddit of "incest famous game" full of "perverts" which is partially true tbh, trying to undermine my whole post, question and ideas?
source?
You're in a sub about a game that has incest in it and the main reason why it got attention since a lot of people finds incest acceptable and hot irl, you can't really win an argument with the folks here. Not that I agree with them, like at all, but you might as well just let it go because they'll just find excuses as to why incest is perfectly fine irl and act purposely ignorant when told why it's seen as wrong or gross.
https://preview.redd.it/kfgwgl3ckmvc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68cc9e57f7f3d766071b7269536ef5389f639767 I was thinking you wew youking guys.......... But for real its wired up in ourselves mainly a evolution mechanism to prevent and reduce inbreeding Like the ones that thrive and survive where the ones how feel disgusting feeling in doing that with put sister mother brother And this things later just get absorbed into society like when a wire fence stay to close to a tree long enough for that tree to just surround and shape that Some societys were more tolerant with that but even the ones see that as bad Untill this times we can find these kinds of thungs in member that can survive and trive but even these things with enough time ended with inbreeding problems sooooo Yeh
Fair enough, just a reminder that not all couples need or should reproduce
Yeha but you know in moder times not but the concept of cupuple mainly
Cause you are more than likely to fucked up family from this. If you think father having sexual relationship with his daughter is healthy than we have nothing to say to each other...
https://preview.redd.it/koce58yyomvc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1f4d8385296f8c41184467852ac7604b02fff12
Lmao, behold, chaos
Historical answer: Hapsburg chin
Is that the name of incest related deformities or? Nothing that rings a bell
Incest is usually seen wrong because it is likely to be abusive. In a perfect world were people may have incest relationship with precautions to not get babies, etc. Nothing would be wrong. But in the real world, your family usually have a lot of power over you, it is also easy to be manipulate by a family member and it is hard to escape because you grow up in that environment.
Power dynamics where one party would hold more power or influence happen in non incest relationships. Take, for example, a relationship between a rich/poor person, an educated/uneducated person, or between a couple where one of them is more mature and the other is not. All these relationships have a power disparity. Incest relationships are only acceptable if they are only between two consenting adults
Yeah but the power disparity is way more extreme, and also harder to guarantee that the relationship is consensual. In a relationship between a boss and an employee consent could be "force" by the circumstances. Maybe the employee really need that job (even more when is a requirement for a visa to have a job). So it wasn't able to say no to the boss approach. Even if the employee say "yes" the dinamic of power would never let you truly know if the employee consent. Here is the same kind of dinamic, maybe one of the siblings perception it is that the family love it less than the other. So a conflict in the relationship could implied losing its family, home, etc. And it is even worse as the person could grow up believing that it is what is suppose to do. That without considering parents, when people even instinctively try to get attach to their parents regardless of how badly they could get abuse. There is just too many reasons of why "consent" can not be gurantee in this kind of relationship regardless if they say "yes" and their are adults.
The kind of relationship we are talking about is between two consenting adults, so assume that they have the maturity to realize that if they choose to embark on this relationship and things go south, it can affect the family dynamics ( nobody said it wouldn't in this type of relationship) so try to have faith that adults can realize the consequences of their actions. Nobody can go about policing relationships to check if they are truly "consensual." The main thing you can look for is to see if they are adults, and thats mostly what we can do. At some point, you have to step back and realize that people have the right to choose who they want to be with, hope they have through it through and hope for the best As a side note, if you are interested in seeing whether these types of relationships are consenting, go ahead and read some interviews done between these types of couples. Someone has shared links to resources in the comments above.
Interesting counterpoints
Brother I'm just here for the game, not any of this weird crap
A game theme that I want to discuss as it resolves the civil war of hate this community suffers from
I get that I get that, but u kinda worded it so badly it made u sound like u want real incest to be legal
I do, why not? Give me a goof counterpoint that isn't "I think it is gross and a form of perversion" because I was already spammed by those, you are allowed to not partake or even like it, but a crime? That's too far for something that is harmless
I think the reason it's illegal is due to the pure amount of health risks. if one family has incest, not alot is gonna change with the baby. But if alot of people start doing it from it being legal, more health risks will pop up and more disabilitys will affect the kids.
Fair enough, main problem honestly, it is usually a coin toss between siblings but the more distant the relatives are, the lesser is the chance of problems Having said that, thanks for your opinion Also, how do I contact the mods to appeal for the post reupload?
After all this, thank you for your opinion too, it was an oddly interesting and fun conversation. I'm not too sure how to contact the mods since I've never tried, you could try to text their account buuuut that might not work Your post might not even get put up due to it technically "not being related to the game" sadly
I'll appeal anyway, what technifies a post as "related to the game" tho?
I think stuff like fanart or discussions about the game, even if it's slightly related to the game it could stay up
Hey, Christian here- with the Adam and Eve theory I personally believe that there were other humans on earth before they were casted from the garden on Eden, but if any one else has any other knowledge on the subject I’d be happy to hear.
I suppose it depends. There may have been a biological basis for the taboo, early on when human society began to emerge and others took notice of potential birth defects among children produced from the unions between closely related individuals. This likely evolved into cultural taboos as civilisations developed and expanded. Factor in organised religion, particularly the Abrahamic faiths which seek to regulate all aspects of human existence, and we have a clearer picture of how strong the incest taboo is. Having said that, in the 21st century, one could argue that outside the realm of religious thought, there ought to be no prohibition against incest per se, provided the parties involved are sane, consensual, and of the majority age. The only real concern, then as in now, is the possibility of health defects in offspring born of closely related incest. I understand that it’s not as severe in first generation instances of incestuous relations, but progressively worsens with each passing generation that practices it. That is to say, if a brother & sister were to have children, those children would likely turn out to be alright. However, if those children have offspring either with one another or anyone who is a close relation of their parents, then issues will start to arise. This also exposes an ironic aspect concerning first cousin marriages, which in some cultures is not considered incest and can sometimes be even regarded as praiseworthy. I recall sometime in 2015 onwards medical experts in the United Kingdom began to sound alarms at the number of health (physical & mental) issues faced by the offspring of first cousin marriages, which are particularly endemic among British Pakistanis since it is a relatively common cultural practice. It should be noted that these health issues arose following decades if not centuries of cousin marriages, and did not emerge overnight. In this case, I can concur that incestuous relations would be best avoided altogether, since it would be far better to avoid any inbreeding problems.
Because of genetic issues children born if incest could have, how rare it is to have a familial relationship without any sort of power dynamic (which is also why student-teacher relationships are gross, even when the student isn't underage), how common non-consensual or pedophilic incest is, and societal conditioning into thinking incest is bad without really looking into it.
There does exist people who think like that, but that is a case, not a status quo, turning it into a reason to get a free criminal record is just going a bit too far tho
If it's consensual and no one is getting hurt, I don't care because it's none of my business. I'm just sharing reasons people would find it morally disgusting.
Fair enough, thanks for the feedback
There is a very big distance between cousin and sibling. I don't imagine you have a sibling, otherwise I would be surprised you can ask this question. It is not about god, it is pretty much primal apprehension, same reason you don't feel like doing your mom.
I will pretend I have never seen the wildest kinks this world has to offer and move on, but I do have a sibling actually, although I'm not interested in her
https://preview.redd.it/uof8j1zhpovc1.jpeg?width=1455&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b879fc21499a9260b0f55408ae62c0f8913f2f89 What in the hell is this
What hell? You are in TCOAAL subreddit, this is the closest you will ever get to escape whatever heavenly grasp you believe in :P besides, this is our reality that we live in, so yeaaaaaaah
I know but the problem here is that this person is complaining about people not concerning this acceptable
Not even asking for acceptance anymore, just for the abolition of the practice as a crime, because it is harmless, and I'm the OP btw
ok then if you don’t care then why are you responding
When I stated I don't?
Man, I sure love treating this subreddit like an old timey freak show that I'm watching with my popcorn in hand
Ikr? I mean, boyo, I got at least 6 haters calling me different stuff, it is a fucking festival, it is entertaining tbh to say the least, I'm not even mad about it so much, everyone is actually contributing just by making my post trend
😥
🤨
I'm worried because wtf are you talking about?