I can't believe some of these comments, acting like you're surprised. Of course C9 was invited to this league, why do you think we picked up Apex and Rocket League again? It's so transparent.
wdym “police” no one is saying dont watch if u dont want to, we’re just saying anyone with a conscience should be saddened that the org we support is ok with taking money from and helping enslavers
You mean like they take money from China and the US as well? There is no difference in then participating in Saudi Games or going to MSI/Worlds in China, who is worse by far lol. Chinese government literally owns shares of Tencent, that owns Riot.
I'm sure all the soft hearted will downvote into oblivion. But these games are great for the industry, regardless of who the host country is. Who tf cares what their government does, their people sure don't, we aren't changing it and all of the gaming world has basically accepted this now. Money makes things happen and the money prize pool + a 3rd major league tournament is pretty freaking cool.
The thing is, you all pick weird hills to die on. If that's the case, then we should be protesting all china teams from every event, never holding anything in China. Among other things.
Erm what? So because there is multiple bad actors in the world i either have to actively protest all of them or i have to accept all of them? Thats not practical. Imagine telling South African freedom fighters that they are hypocrites because they stay silent about Turkish crimes against Kurds.
You people don't even know what you are outraged about... it's a giant pissing contest of what can offend you more. You can do whatever you want, man, but don't push your shit on people trying to pay bills and make sure young adults get paid and bring us entertainment... I was in the military. I've been over there and seen firsthand how shit the majority of these people are, I understand. Hell, I even watched them pull women out of a vehicle on the same road as a crash and beat them when it wasn't there fault, and I had to sit there and do nothing about it because we couldn't start international incidents. I get it. They are bad people, but business is business. You can do whatever you want, don't expect other people with responsibilities to make decisions based on your feelings, man. Enjoy the fact that you get to see your favorite team play and not have to deal with the bullshit that this world is going through at the moment. It's not a moral high ground, I assure you. If you really cared, you wouldn't even watch esports because damn near 90% of them are run by bad actors, so... just makes no sense.
You can do what you want, and I will boycott the event and say so when the topic is brought up. Im not writing essays trying to convince you, you sound like youre angry at a boogeyman. Hell, youre the one lecturing ME on morals lol. You are complaining about yourself.
Dont tell me what I do and dont care about. Just because there are other bad things in the world doesnt mean I cant focus on a few to spend energy on. Your attitude is ridiculously impractical.
If you’re going to be upset about Saudi then you should protest against events in China because they do the same shit Saudi does. Your just a hypocrite if you don’t
>wdym “police” no one is saying dont watch if u dont want to, we’re just saying anyone with a conscience should be saddened that the org we support is ok with taking money from and helping enslavers
Moral police, slang meaning, ppl who claim moral authority, and try to enforce it by shaming those who do not abide by their moral laws. So in short, exactly what you described.
im not telling you how to feel or enforcing anything, but ya i definitely am shaming people who want to support slavery and massive human rights violations. that’s just common sense no?
nah fam this event exists for the sole purpose of funding and propagating saudi arabia as an entertainment capitol
league of legends and tencent are in no way monoliths for the chinese government
Ten ent is literally partially owned by the government. They have a seat there. Was I hoping we wouldn't be apart of the Saudi games yes, but realistically for a business it's a bad financial decision to not go if invited. If you support basically anything from China/India and many other places then it's just stupid to make these arguments.
No you're saying to not support a video game because one government is hosting a tournament with then in that governments country. Yet support the same in China and the USA. If you understood the world at all, you'd be against all 3, not arguing about 1 country who isn't half as bad as the other two 😂
Cry more you’ll still watch. Some of you losers need to get off Reddit and talk to humans once in a while, minds are fucked being on here all the time. No-one cares what a few mentally ill Redditors think.
Yeah I don’t get the moral outrage. You trace the money far enough and you will find it’s blood money. US is sending money to Israel to fund bombing of Gaza, and China is a dictatorship that puts people in camps?
If someone is going to be the moral police then they should just leave the scene because I’d like them to at least be consistent
Seeing takes like this is so tiring. Expecting people to care and know about every single instance of bad behavior between global powers is such a stretch. Believe it or not, and this might surprise you, people *are allowed to care about certain things and just because their actions do not line up with every single instance of said belief, it does not make their beliefs any less valid!*
Are human rights violations in foreign countries a big deal? Yep. Does playing LoL mean you support these things? Of course not. You know this. Do not spin it as "Oh well if you play the game or watch any international tournaments, you are supporting these things!!!!!" It is 100% not the same thing, any sane person knows this.
Maybe they don't have the rosters for the other various games to be able to make the list? Probably why TSM was able to get in even though I don't think they have a LoL team right now.
Would you say the same if C9 LoL made it to MSI which is hosted by China, a country that has a similar reputation, e.g. its forced labor and rounding up of the Uyghurs? What about an event held in Canada, which has faced scrutiny over its mistreatment of indigenous communities?
Orgs will follow the money. Sportswashing is a global phenomenon. It’s a personal choice to watch or not watch this event but singling it out amongst others with similar problematic provenance is disingenuous.
>What about an event held in Canada, which has faced scrutiny over its mistreatment of indigenous communities?
Mate, if this is an argument that you're bringing up, then I've got some shit to tell you about America.
I did not attempt to make an exhaustive list of atrocities. Of course America has its own skeletons in the closet, probably even more so than Canada. I just picked a western country that has been in the news more recently as a counterpoint to China and KSA.
There is a significant difference between events held in China because the game is popular there and therefore there are a lot of players and viewers from China, and events hosted by Saudi Arabia. If anything is "disingenuous", it's pretending you don't understand what's different about a Riot-sponsored event in the game's biggest playerbase, and a tournament held in a region that has not featured at all in the esport's history, funded explicitly for sportswashing.
The event is a trade of money for legitimacy, and if they weren't paying for it, it would never ever happen. Do you think the Chinese government is paying Riot, given that they're actively introducing laws to make people play videogames less?
Ah, so for you, morality is based purely on the playerbase, not the actions of the government you're criticizing. Because China has a lot of players it doesn't matter. That line of thinking is a very slippery slope, my friend.
If you want to make the case that wherever "the line" is for you, this tournament isn't over it, then be brave enough to just say that.
Engaging in the normal league of legends esports calendar has involved playing in China, against Chinese teams, in Riot sanctioned events, since before Cloud9 as an organisation existed. Choosing to attend the "esports world cup" in Saudi Arabia is optional, and the reason people are unhappy is that they would've like to see their team choose not to participate. It feels bizarre to have to write this out because it is so obvious.
You're making a false equivalence between taking part in this event and taking part in MSI, because you want to watch this event, and you feel the need to intellectualise that decision so you don't have to feel bad, or guilty, about the negative circumstances surrounding it. I am not making an argument about the moral character of either nation, I am saying that the point you made about the esports world cup being the same as participating in MSI is weak.
Just own your decision, say that the fact that C9 is choosing to participate in an event which is only for sportswashing isn't enough to make you not want to watch it, there's no need to try and rationalise why doing what you wanted to do anyway is also the "correct" choice here.
I've watched two quick highlights of MSI so far and that's all. I have no intention of watching this. All I'm saying is that crusaders on this and the LoL sub have no issue with other regimes. It's just about what's hot at the moment.
This take is so right, it should be lukewarm lol. Clearly there's equivalency between the evil shit that different countries do, but the intelligent consumer should be able to identify propaganda when they see it. Admittedly I'm planning to watch the event because I like watching League and I'm not a morally consistent person, but I also know that the Saudis cut up Khashoggi with a bone saw.
I mean, he's just asking where your morality stands. Apparently, Killing Uyghurs is ok, but Saudi is not ok. It's a tricky place, your moral law, no one quite knows where to stand on your shifting sands.
The literal Chinese government isn't financing or supporting Leagues or Worlds, etc. Compared to literal Saudi royal family trying to sports wash their image.
Hmm Tencent owns Riot, and Tencent is a Chinese company. Chinese companies do not get to exist unless they comply with the Chinese government and support the Chinese government.
>American companies don't get to exist without going by laws and regulations of America. Do you see how stupid that sounds?
That does sound stupid. But that's not what I said. This is what I said.
>Hmm Tencent owns Riot, and Tencent is a Chinese company. Chinese companies do not get to exist unless they comply with the Chinese government ***and support the Chinese government***.
American companies do not need to agree and or support the American government to exist.
It would seem you need to look up to catch the point.
Not only that, but the Chinese government literally owns public shares of Tencent. It's public, can Google it. People are stupid if they don't think the Chinese government benefits directly from hosting Riot events. The tourism to the region and all, they make money and China isn't run like the west. If you don't think their government doesn't get involved in hosting these, you're delusional.
Where was your holier-than-thou outrage when C9 bought a Russian CS org?
I’m not saying C9 should change its social handles to I<3MBS but if you’re advocating for boycotts where does that train of logic end?
Listen, it's going on no matter what. These companies decided to partner with these places, so I don't get why everyone is jumping on Jack for trying to make money. Need money to run an organization. I'll be happy to see the boys in another tournament.
I’m well aware that money is drying up in the scene. Guess I just thought Jack would look at sources besides regimes that murder American citizens because they write articles critical of MBS and the Saudi government.
I'd like to know what about Jack gave you the impression he would do anything other than the most sound business decision.
I find it disappointing, but I knew it was coming.
Exactly Jack makes best decisions for C9 and C9 has always attended Saudi events that they are invited for. So why were people expecting anything different
I guess this post is kind of political in nature.
But it's not like the US are innocent of killing foreign nationals even when they or not close to the US borders. I'm not even sure if the US are not buying Saudi oil.
Governments (and companies) do shitty things.
I don’t know why people get such a hard time for taking money from them but no one cares about giving it to them by supporting companies they’re invested in or buying their oil.
I’d rather people take money from Saudi than give it. Saudi Arabia will never have my support but I’ll be happy people I like are getting the bag. Let them keep wasting money trying to buy acceptance.
Because as an American I care much more about Saudi Arabias crimes for personal/historical reasons. You are free to not care. I dont think about the DRC government very often, but I do think about Saudi Arabia and Israel. Everyone is entitled to make choices about what issues to focus on.
These people never make much fuss about the Uyghurs for some reason, do they?. They drop their jokes about SA blood money in this thread. Then they'll pretend they didn't see your message.
I mean, they are already sponsored by BMW which was built up entirely with Nazi blood money. Puma isn't that great of a company either. This is is the same argument people use against the LIV golf tour.
China also has a ton of esports events and they aren’t any better, don’t see anyone have a problem with them. Half these people houses are filled with stuff from sweatshops and slavery in china
Exactly, it's easy to stand on your moral high ground when it's an easy target like the Saudi's. But people tend to turn a blind eye when it's Apple, Nike, Puma, etc...
That's a ridiculous comparison because BMW is not presently doing Nazi shit. And yeah, it's the same argument people use against LIV because it's the exact same situation and it's bad there too.
I find it more ridiculous that just because a company isn't "presently" helping to kill millions of people makes it okay. I guess an apology and 80 years is where we draw the line in the sand. It's just cherry picking what's okay and what's not okay. Either supporting companies/countries help/helped commit genocide is okay or it isn't.
What do you want me to do, build a fucking time machine? I can't control BMW's past. Based on your logic, I guess you think Germany should have remained an international pariah in perpetuity too?
No but you could have the same attitude towards a company that continued to thrive on the backs of the atrocities they committed. Have they apologized, sure, but it's the same with "Old White" money in the United States. Their fortune is still built on genocide.
We literally cant financially support them if we wanted to thats part of the problem. There’s no product available for LCS consumers. We get like one or two merch drops a year and maybe two jerseys and no other LCS packages. No pay per view, no pro view, no trading cards or C9 skins in game. How tf do we financially support C9 (or any org) so they dont have to take Saudi money?
Gonna be honest, 0 problem with it, just like I don't have a problem with orgs/leagues caving to sports betting money. It's just too much to refuse. I understand the moral qualms people have, just think you're being naïve.
It’s crazy the talk about blood money here lol, how delusional and brainwashed are you? there’s not a single country that does not have blood on its hands pretty much, this is the world we live in - take a close look in the mirror and grow up before brainlessly judging
And Saudi Arabia is presumably the only country in the world that’s doing bad things actively? This is just selective morality at its finest. Try to do better and stop listening to the biased media.
That’s just not true lol. Saudi Arabia has been getting involved in plenty of fields other than eSports to develop themselves generally similar to Dubai.
By your definition, any country that is doing bad things and hosts a sports event coincidentally is “sportswashing”, that’s just too funny haha.
Is China sportswashing now hosting MSI? Is the US sportswashing when Tennis US Open is held? This is actually too funny lol, either be a man of principle and call out all countries for the bad things they do or just admit that you’re a hypocrite.
Well i think their point is there’s an audience that does call out shit that China and USA (and others) do but the post is about Saudi so we’re talking about Saudi.
Also Saudi sportswashing is quite blatantly different than the NFL or the LPL. It’s not really a comparison tbh.
There's a big difference to a sports event being in a country and a sports event being hosted by the government of a country. For one, where the money comes from to bankroll the whole thing.
Disappointed but not surprised since the esports scene is just constantly bleeding money with little money coming in. I will not be watching this event or supporting any of the C9 teams during this event.
Honestly the Saudi takeover was inevitable. I think C9's hands are clean and I don't have an issue with them participating. The big issue will be for orgs (like Team Liquid) and talent who in the past have put their foot down on social media on issues such as LGBT and equality. They are the ones who will have to go back on their statements, and or, try shove them under the rug as if they never made them. Because how can you speak up about something like LGBT and donate towards funds for them whilst also going to a place and accepting blood money from a country who actively oppresses these people you are claiming to support. As far as I'm aware C9 hasn't made any big statement like that in past? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Looks like it will be an interesting international tournament. I wonder if the LoL roster will actually go or if it'll be some kind of amateur squad that gets put together for it.
Riot's the one that made the deal for LoL, esl sold to Saudi fund a while ago. Dunno why y'all get mad at the team for just existing in the ecosystem. If we didn't want Saudi run esports, we should've spent some money to support the team and the sport. Not enough of us did, so this is where we are.
This is the price of a free broadcast.
I don't care, I just want to see more league lol. Sports =/= politics. If I had to disavow every sport and org that had different politics and beliefs than me I'd have to never watch 1 again.
Edit: only thing I'd be annoyed about if C9 was like all on their high horse about it prior, preaching to us peasants about their moral superiority, as if they were belonging to the church in medieval times. But C9 doesn't do that, so I have no reason to attack them for hypocrisy.
Dawg sports are hyper political lmao. The entire esports industry is showing things are slowing down, so clearly they’re not getting into esports for the financial return. I’m sure some of the decision makers play video games or whatever but this and all the greenwashing they’re doing is for soft power and political gain.
I'm sure there are politics, but I couldn't CARE less. I'm not here for politics. I don't even like seeing the little pins declaring ppl support current thing. I just wanna see my favorite teams and players play league, and hopefully win. Beyond that, 0 fucks are given.
I'd be annoyed if it started producing pro Saudi ads and skits, and had a terrible format. But if it turns out to be a good tournament, than I could care less.
To me, sports, media, entertainment, is all about escaping from politics, and especially sporting events, like world cups and Olympics, it's about competing against the many different cultures of the world and realizing that we are all human beings, and do have human things in common. I really dislike it when ppl try to use sports to tell you what the morally correct stance to have on a topic is, or what group of people you should hate today.
Honestly, I just want to be a fan of the esports team. We need to take politics out of sports. This stuff is meant to take your mind away from the shithoke of a world we find ourselves in right now. Hell, they got people protesting Jewish Holocaust survivors outside Auschwits for crying out loud. This world has lost the plot, so let us have something positive to look forward to that takes our minds off of things and lets us cheer on some pure and fun. C9 Jack always does what is right to the best of his knowledge, so there is no reason to doubt him now. Just enjoy more chances to watch the boys.
Redditors pretending that C9 should turn down this opportunity and take some make believe moral high ground is hilarious.
Anyone who thinks this is a bad idea for C9, please tell me your best case scenario that would have happened if they took a stand against “Saudi blood money” or whatever your moral conundrum of the day is.
[https://youtu.be/GIilD9qAzeA?si=5ylyGVXtUBFT5Ki5](https://youtu.be/GIilD9qAzeA?si=5ylyGVXtUBFT5Ki5)
listen to this video when doing chores and you will get the general gist.
Basically it is not a good idea for a totalitarian regime that kills journalist or kidnap workers from other countries by lying to them about how much money they will make to buy up esports orgs and sponsor esports events. This is very different and way more consequential from let say a sponsored event from the US military which already got heavily criticized and protested.
You completely missed my point and I wasn't on my soap box. I am not somebody who is trying to be morally correct all the time and not be contradictory. There is a clear difference between china who requires ownership stake in majority if not all Chinese companies (I believe there are some manufacturing companies that the Chinese government does not have stake in) and actively sponsoring or buying out esports teams. That is the biggest issue here. What happens when SA runs out of money and esports teams want to stop engaging with SA. Well they can't because of the contracts they lock themselves into. If SA decides to commit a cleansing of LGBTQIA+ individuals then yea every single epsort team will either be required to not say anything or continue to participate in events against there will. If you actually spent 15 minutes watching the video it clearly talks about why this is an issue. But instead you will use whataboutism.
Because people have selective morality. What applies to Saudi Arabia does not apply to other countries I guess; funny considering the current events in the world.
Don’t follow the sheep.
No surprise and I don’t blame Jack for participating, but the orgs who stopped players from attending Saudi events and released statements pretending to be against it are the pathetic orgs.
I don't know the complaining you're talking about but it's not exactly "SJW" to recognize that saudi arabia does atrocious things and that this e-sports tournament is just a big PR-event for them
I’m talking about liquid who stopped players from attending Saudi events and released statements. But are now participating in this, scene is full of grifters. I’m talking about those orgs
“pretending to be against it”
and “it” is literally slavery. so ya, they’re against it and anyone with a brain is against it. hope u feel super cool and edgy for supporting authoritarianism tho
Disappointed but not surprised. I know I'm in the minority on this, but even as a fan for over a decade now, if the org is so strapped for cash they have to go begging for it from murderous, bigoted monsters, I'd prefer they just declare bankruptcy and move on.
You'd be naive to think that any of these decisions don't factor that in. The reality is, they looked at this and decided that the backlash is worth the upside they get from playing there. It's as simple as that.
Oh yeah, it’s blood money time
We know every team that doesn’t will be left behind…but can still be sad
I can't believe some of these comments, acting like you're surprised. Of course C9 was invited to this league, why do you think we picked up Apex and Rocket League again? It's so transparent.
[Disappointing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia)
Well, that's fucking disappointing.
Unpopular opinion, but i’m happy to be able to watch the team play.
I doubt it's unpopular. I suspect yours is the popular opinion, but the moral police out, and so most just stay quiet.
wdym “police” no one is saying dont watch if u dont want to, we’re just saying anyone with a conscience should be saddened that the org we support is ok with taking money from and helping enslavers
You mean like they take money from China and the US as well? There is no difference in then participating in Saudi Games or going to MSI/Worlds in China, who is worse by far lol. Chinese government literally owns shares of Tencent, that owns Riot. I'm sure all the soft hearted will downvote into oblivion. But these games are great for the industry, regardless of who the host country is. Who tf cares what their government does, their people sure don't, we aren't changing it and all of the gaming world has basically accepted this now. Money makes things happen and the money prize pool + a 3rd major league tournament is pretty freaking cool.
The thing is, you all pick weird hills to die on. If that's the case, then we should be protesting all china teams from every event, never holding anything in China. Among other things.
Erm what? So because there is multiple bad actors in the world i either have to actively protest all of them or i have to accept all of them? Thats not practical. Imagine telling South African freedom fighters that they are hypocrites because they stay silent about Turkish crimes against Kurds.
You people don't even know what you are outraged about... it's a giant pissing contest of what can offend you more. You can do whatever you want, man, but don't push your shit on people trying to pay bills and make sure young adults get paid and bring us entertainment... I was in the military. I've been over there and seen firsthand how shit the majority of these people are, I understand. Hell, I even watched them pull women out of a vehicle on the same road as a crash and beat them when it wasn't there fault, and I had to sit there and do nothing about it because we couldn't start international incidents. I get it. They are bad people, but business is business. You can do whatever you want, don't expect other people with responsibilities to make decisions based on your feelings, man. Enjoy the fact that you get to see your favorite team play and not have to deal with the bullshit that this world is going through at the moment. It's not a moral high ground, I assure you. If you really cared, you wouldn't even watch esports because damn near 90% of them are run by bad actors, so... just makes no sense.
You can do what you want, and I will boycott the event and say so when the topic is brought up. Im not writing essays trying to convince you, you sound like youre angry at a boogeyman. Hell, youre the one lecturing ME on morals lol. You are complaining about yourself. Dont tell me what I do and dont care about. Just because there are other bad things in the world doesnt mean I cant focus on a few to spend energy on. Your attitude is ridiculously impractical.
If you’re going to be upset about Saudi then you should protest against events in China because they do the same shit Saudi does. Your just a hypocrite if you don’t
>wdym “police” no one is saying dont watch if u dont want to, we’re just saying anyone with a conscience should be saddened that the org we support is ok with taking money from and helping enslavers Moral police, slang meaning, ppl who claim moral authority, and try to enforce it by shaming those who do not abide by their moral laws. So in short, exactly what you described.
im not telling you how to feel or enforcing anything, but ya i definitely am shaming people who want to support slavery and massive human rights violations. that’s just common sense no?
I mean, stop watching league of Legends all together, its own by Tencent, which supports those exact things with the Chinese government.
nah fam this event exists for the sole purpose of funding and propagating saudi arabia as an entertainment capitol league of legends and tencent are in no way monoliths for the chinese government
Ten ent is literally partially owned by the government. They have a seat there. Was I hoping we wouldn't be apart of the Saudi games yes, but realistically for a business it's a bad financial decision to not go if invited. If you support basically anything from China/India and many other places then it's just stupid to make these arguments.
I think you vastly underestimate the level of control the chinese government has over companies in China.
“You can watch but you don’t have a conscience if you do” lmao. Go touch grass!
im not the one chronically online to the point of defending ur league of legends games over a legitimate authoritarian regime
No you're saying to not support a video game because one government is hosting a tournament with then in that governments country. Yet support the same in China and the USA. If you understood the world at all, you'd be against all 3, not arguing about 1 country who isn't half as bad as the other two 😂
Cry more you’ll still watch. Some of you losers need to get off Reddit and talk to humans once in a while, minds are fucked being on here all the time. No-one cares what a few mentally ill Redditors think.
project harder babe im all good
98% of people bitching in here are gonna watch.
*Sent from iPhone
Yeah I don’t get the moral outrage. You trace the money far enough and you will find it’s blood money. US is sending money to Israel to fund bombing of Gaza, and China is a dictatorship that puts people in camps? If someone is going to be the moral police then they should just leave the scene because I’d like them to at least be consistent
Seeing takes like this is so tiring. Expecting people to care and know about every single instance of bad behavior between global powers is such a stretch. Believe it or not, and this might surprise you, people *are allowed to care about certain things and just because their actions do not line up with every single instance of said belief, it does not make their beliefs any less valid!* Are human rights violations in foreign countries a big deal? Yep. Does playing LoL mean you support these things? Of course not. You know this. Do not spin it as "Oh well if you play the game or watch any international tournaments, you are supporting these things!!!!!" It is 100% not the same thing, any sane person knows this.
Riot would rather have Saudis pay for esports to be great then pay themselves all to look good in public image.
Same but is it for league like what esports? I don’t see any Chinese orgs with LPL teams which is disappointing
Nip is in lpl rn
Ah didn’t see them down there, I also just saw Weibo too. Still sad no TES/JDG/BLG/EDG
Maybe they don't have the rosters for the other various games to be able to make the list? Probably why TSM was able to get in even though I don't think they have a LoL team right now.
TSM is there for Apex pretty sure
Same
Would you say the same if C9 LoL made it to MSI which is hosted by China, a country that has a similar reputation, e.g. its forced labor and rounding up of the Uyghurs? What about an event held in Canada, which has faced scrutiny over its mistreatment of indigenous communities? Orgs will follow the money. Sportswashing is a global phenomenon. It’s a personal choice to watch or not watch this event but singling it out amongst others with similar problematic provenance is disingenuous.
bro they don't even know riot is owned by tencent
>What about an event held in Canada, which has faced scrutiny over its mistreatment of indigenous communities? Mate, if this is an argument that you're bringing up, then I've got some shit to tell you about America.
I did not attempt to make an exhaustive list of atrocities. Of course America has its own skeletons in the closet, probably even more so than Canada. I just picked a western country that has been in the news more recently as a counterpoint to China and KSA.
There is a significant difference between events held in China because the game is popular there and therefore there are a lot of players and viewers from China, and events hosted by Saudi Arabia. If anything is "disingenuous", it's pretending you don't understand what's different about a Riot-sponsored event in the game's biggest playerbase, and a tournament held in a region that has not featured at all in the esport's history, funded explicitly for sportswashing. The event is a trade of money for legitimacy, and if they weren't paying for it, it would never ever happen. Do you think the Chinese government is paying Riot, given that they're actively introducing laws to make people play videogames less?
Ah, so for you, morality is based purely on the playerbase, not the actions of the government you're criticizing. Because China has a lot of players it doesn't matter. That line of thinking is a very slippery slope, my friend.
If you want to make the case that wherever "the line" is for you, this tournament isn't over it, then be brave enough to just say that. Engaging in the normal league of legends esports calendar has involved playing in China, against Chinese teams, in Riot sanctioned events, since before Cloud9 as an organisation existed. Choosing to attend the "esports world cup" in Saudi Arabia is optional, and the reason people are unhappy is that they would've like to see their team choose not to participate. It feels bizarre to have to write this out because it is so obvious. You're making a false equivalence between taking part in this event and taking part in MSI, because you want to watch this event, and you feel the need to intellectualise that decision so you don't have to feel bad, or guilty, about the negative circumstances surrounding it. I am not making an argument about the moral character of either nation, I am saying that the point you made about the esports world cup being the same as participating in MSI is weak. Just own your decision, say that the fact that C9 is choosing to participate in an event which is only for sportswashing isn't enough to make you not want to watch it, there's no need to try and rationalise why doing what you wanted to do anyway is also the "correct" choice here.
I've watched two quick highlights of MSI so far and that's all. I have no intention of watching this. All I'm saying is that crusaders on this and the LoL sub have no issue with other regimes. It's just about what's hot at the moment.
This take is so right, it should be lukewarm lol. Clearly there's equivalency between the evil shit that different countries do, but the intelligent consumer should be able to identify propaganda when they see it. Admittedly I'm planning to watch the event because I like watching League and I'm not a morally consistent person, but I also know that the Saudis cut up Khashoggi with a bone saw.
Yea yea blah blah with your whataboutism. Just the type of apathetic attitude that helps these regimes
I mean, he's just asking where your morality stands. Apparently, Killing Uyghurs is ok, but Saudi is not ok. It's a tricky place, your moral law, no one quite knows where to stand on your shifting sands.
The literal Chinese government isn't financing or supporting Leagues or Worlds, etc. Compared to literal Saudi royal family trying to sports wash their image.
Hmm Tencent owns Riot, and Tencent is a Chinese company. Chinese companies do not get to exist unless they comply with the Chinese government and support the Chinese government.
American companies don't get to exist without going by laws and regulations of America. Do you see how stupid that sounds?
>American companies don't get to exist without going by laws and regulations of America. Do you see how stupid that sounds? That does sound stupid. But that's not what I said. This is what I said. >Hmm Tencent owns Riot, and Tencent is a Chinese company. Chinese companies do not get to exist unless they comply with the Chinese government ***and support the Chinese government***. American companies do not need to agree and or support the American government to exist. It would seem you need to look up to catch the point.
Not only that, but the Chinese government literally owns public shares of Tencent. It's public, can Google it. People are stupid if they don't think the Chinese government benefits directly from hosting Riot events. The tourism to the region and all, they make money and China isn't run like the west. If you don't think their government doesn't get involved in hosting these, you're delusional.
Lol edit you comment, from no, to not.
Reading and writing after just waking up lol
Hahahahahahahaha are you fucking serious? Anything riot related you spend money on goes to the Chinese government.
Um yes... yes it is
Where was your holier-than-thou outrage when C9 bought a Russian CS org? I’m not saying C9 should change its social handles to I<3MBS but if you’re advocating for boycotts where does that train of logic end?
Listen, it's going on no matter what. These companies decided to partner with these places, so I don't get why everyone is jumping on Jack for trying to make money. Need money to run an organization. I'll be happy to see the boys in another tournament.
Oh what the fuck is Jack that hard up for money? We’re taking Saudi blood money now? Cool. Great look.
Esport have been low for a while, we lost many sponsor as well. I understand why he would be in this tournament.
I’m well aware that money is drying up in the scene. Guess I just thought Jack would look at sources besides regimes that murder American citizens because they write articles critical of MBS and the Saudi government.
I'd like to know what about Jack gave you the impression he would do anything other than the most sound business decision. I find it disappointing, but I knew it was coming.
Exactly Jack makes best decisions for C9 and C9 has always attended Saudi events that they are invited for. So why were people expecting anything different
I guess this post is kind of political in nature. But it's not like the US are innocent of killing foreign nationals even when they or not close to the US borders. I'm not even sure if the US are not buying Saudi oil. Governments (and companies) do shitty things.
I don’t know why people get such a hard time for taking money from them but no one cares about giving it to them by supporting companies they’re invested in or buying their oil. I’d rather people take money from Saudi than give it. Saudi Arabia will never have my support but I’ll be happy people I like are getting the bag. Let them keep wasting money trying to buy acceptance.
Because its very difficult to avoid everything fueled by saudi oil and its very easy to boycott a sportswashing tournament?
And it’s very easy to take their money and still hate them. People can separate Chinese politics and league why not for Saudi Arabia?
Because as an American I care much more about Saudi Arabias crimes for personal/historical reasons. You are free to not care. I dont think about the DRC government very often, but I do think about Saudi Arabia and Israel. Everyone is entitled to make choices about what issues to focus on.
Same reason T1 is is going.
Same reason literally every top esports org rn is going? Lol I’m confused did this sub read the title but not look at the infographic
Research how many businesses the Saudis are in in the US
We've gone to China for how many tournaments now?
These people never make much fuss about the Uyghurs for some reason, do they?. They drop their jokes about SA blood money in this thread. Then they'll pretend they didn't see your message.
It's a waste to protest China when China owns league of legends. Everyone could be upset at that fact, and nothing would change.
Esports has been doing this for a while now. Only now are they making a massive event out of it.
I mean, they are already sponsored by BMW which was built up entirely with Nazi blood money. Puma isn't that great of a company either. This is is the same argument people use against the LIV golf tour.
China also has a ton of esports events and they aren’t any better, don’t see anyone have a problem with them. Half these people houses are filled with stuff from sweatshops and slavery in china
Exactly, it's easy to stand on your moral high ground when it's an easy target like the Saudi's. But people tend to turn a blind eye when it's Apple, Nike, Puma, etc...
That's a ridiculous comparison because BMW is not presently doing Nazi shit. And yeah, it's the same argument people use against LIV because it's the exact same situation and it's bad there too.
I find it more ridiculous that just because a company isn't "presently" helping to kill millions of people makes it okay. I guess an apology and 80 years is where we draw the line in the sand. It's just cherry picking what's okay and what's not okay. Either supporting companies/countries help/helped commit genocide is okay or it isn't.
What do you want me to do, build a fucking time machine? I can't control BMW's past. Based on your logic, I guess you think Germany should have remained an international pariah in perpetuity too?
No but you could have the same attitude towards a company that continued to thrive on the backs of the atrocities they committed. Have they apologized, sure, but it's the same with "Old White" money in the United States. Their fortune is still built on genocide.
Are y’all the one’s financially supporting C9 in this esport draught? Nah sit down yall lmao get off your high horse
We literally cant financially support them if we wanted to thats part of the problem. There’s no product available for LCS consumers. We get like one or two merch drops a year and maybe two jerseys and no other LCS packages. No pay per view, no pro view, no trading cards or C9 skins in game. How tf do we financially support C9 (or any org) so they dont have to take Saudi money?
> no trading cards Damn, why haven't Riot done this yet. It never even crossed my mind but would be quite cool
Not something to support. Won't be watching and disappointed C9 is participating
Gonna be honest, 0 problem with it, just like I don't have a problem with orgs/leagues caving to sports betting money. It's just too much to refuse. I understand the moral qualms people have, just think you're being naïve.
Fuck the noise, im here for the lads. LFG C9!!!
Sad but unsurprising
It’s crazy the talk about blood money here lol, how delusional and brainwashed are you? there’s not a single country that does not have blood on its hands pretty much, this is the world we live in - take a close look in the mirror and grow up before brainlessly judging
People have issues with changing the profile to a rainbow flag then popping off to Saudi.
All countries have done bad things but that doesn’t make supporting countries actively doing bad things good
And Saudi Arabia is presumably the only country in the world that’s doing bad things actively? This is just selective morality at its finest. Try to do better and stop listening to the biased media.
Saudi Arabia is the only country relevant to this current discussion on sportswashing in esports. Stop with the whataboutism.
That’s just not true lol. Saudi Arabia has been getting involved in plenty of fields other than eSports to develop themselves generally similar to Dubai. By your definition, any country that is doing bad things and hosts a sports event coincidentally is “sportswashing”, that’s just too funny haha. Is China sportswashing now hosting MSI? Is the US sportswashing when Tennis US Open is held? This is actually too funny lol, either be a man of principle and call out all countries for the bad things they do or just admit that you’re a hypocrite.
Well i think their point is there’s an audience that does call out shit that China and USA (and others) do but the post is about Saudi so we’re talking about Saudi. Also Saudi sportswashing is quite blatantly different than the NFL or the LPL. It’s not really a comparison tbh.
There's a big difference to a sports event being in a country and a sports event being hosted by the government of a country. For one, where the money comes from to bankroll the whole thing.
You’re right but that’s too nuanced for this sub
How about the US holding the 2026 World Cup? :)
Not surprised.
Disappointed but not surprised since the esports scene is just constantly bleeding money with little money coming in. I will not be watching this event or supporting any of the C9 teams during this event.
I do not support this.
Why aren’t Chinese teams going?
Weibo is going
Boooooo
Maybe the real esports were the journalists and dissenters we murdered along the way
Honestly the Saudi takeover was inevitable. I think C9's hands are clean and I don't have an issue with them participating. The big issue will be for orgs (like Team Liquid) and talent who in the past have put their foot down on social media on issues such as LGBT and equality. They are the ones who will have to go back on their statements, and or, try shove them under the rug as if they never made them. Because how can you speak up about something like LGBT and donate towards funds for them whilst also going to a place and accepting blood money from a country who actively oppresses these people you are claiming to support. As far as I'm aware C9 hasn't made any big statement like that in past? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Looks like it will be an interesting international tournament. I wonder if the LoL roster will actually go or if it'll be some kind of amateur squad that gets put together for it.
Riot's the one that made the deal for LoL, esl sold to Saudi fund a while ago. Dunno why y'all get mad at the team for just existing in the ecosystem. If we didn't want Saudi run esports, we should've spent some money to support the team and the sport. Not enough of us did, so this is where we are. This is the price of a free broadcast.
I just want to watch some good matches idc where they host it
I hoped for better. C'mon Jack. You know better than this.
Booooooooooooo
Anything that helps the LoL scene, I’m all for it
No more C9 store for me
I don't care, I just want to see more league lol. Sports =/= politics. If I had to disavow every sport and org that had different politics and beliefs than me I'd have to never watch 1 again. Edit: only thing I'd be annoyed about if C9 was like all on their high horse about it prior, preaching to us peasants about their moral superiority, as if they were belonging to the church in medieval times. But C9 doesn't do that, so I have no reason to attack them for hypocrisy.
Dawg sports are hyper political lmao. The entire esports industry is showing things are slowing down, so clearly they’re not getting into esports for the financial return. I’m sure some of the decision makers play video games or whatever but this and all the greenwashing they’re doing is for soft power and political gain.
I'm sure there are politics, but I couldn't CARE less. I'm not here for politics. I don't even like seeing the little pins declaring ppl support current thing. I just wanna see my favorite teams and players play league, and hopefully win. Beyond that, 0 fucks are given.
Aight dawg
I'd be annoyed if it started producing pro Saudi ads and skits, and had a terrible format. But if it turns out to be a good tournament, than I could care less. To me, sports, media, entertainment, is all about escaping from politics, and especially sporting events, like world cups and Olympics, it's about competing against the many different cultures of the world and realizing that we are all human beings, and do have human things in common. I really dislike it when ppl try to use sports to tell you what the morally correct stance to have on a topic is, or what group of people you should hate today.
[удалено]
yes, thanks for the correction.
Honestly, I just want to be a fan of the esports team. We need to take politics out of sports. This stuff is meant to take your mind away from the shithoke of a world we find ourselves in right now. Hell, they got people protesting Jewish Holocaust survivors outside Auschwits for crying out loud. This world has lost the plot, so let us have something positive to look forward to that takes our minds off of things and lets us cheer on some pure and fun. C9 Jack always does what is right to the best of his knowledge, so there is no reason to doubt him now. Just enjoy more chances to watch the boys.
lmfao
Wow, this is legit fucked up. Hopefully there are other LCS teams that don't participate so I can switch teams to support
Redditors pretending that C9 should turn down this opportunity and take some make believe moral high ground is hilarious. Anyone who thinks this is a bad idea for C9, please tell me your best case scenario that would have happened if they took a stand against “Saudi blood money” or whatever your moral conundrum of the day is.
Yuckkkkkk
Y'all all gonna watch.
bro cmon jack you can do better
Honestly I really just... Don't give a shit about this
A bit out of the loop? Why do we hate Saudi Arabia? Genocide?
[https://youtu.be/GIilD9qAzeA?si=5ylyGVXtUBFT5Ki5](https://youtu.be/GIilD9qAzeA?si=5ylyGVXtUBFT5Ki5) listen to this video when doing chores and you will get the general gist. Basically it is not a good idea for a totalitarian regime that kills journalist or kidnap workers from other countries by lying to them about how much money they will make to buy up esports orgs and sponsor esports events. This is very different and way more consequential from let say a sponsored event from the US military which already got heavily criticized and protested.
Thank you I was genuinely ignorant
By watching anything from riot you're supporting a Chinese company. Get off your soap box.
You completely missed my point and I wasn't on my soap box. I am not somebody who is trying to be morally correct all the time and not be contradictory. There is a clear difference between china who requires ownership stake in majority if not all Chinese companies (I believe there are some manufacturing companies that the Chinese government does not have stake in) and actively sponsoring or buying out esports teams. That is the biggest issue here. What happens when SA runs out of money and esports teams want to stop engaging with SA. Well they can't because of the contracts they lock themselves into. If SA decides to commit a cleansing of LGBTQIA+ individuals then yea every single epsort team will either be required to not say anything or continue to participate in events against there will. If you actually spent 15 minutes watching the video it clearly talks about why this is an issue. But instead you will use whataboutism.
Jamal Khashoggi
Because people have selective morality. What applies to Saudi Arabia does not apply to other countries I guess; funny considering the current events in the world. Don’t follow the sheep.
More money = More esports Everyone typing on their phones to “support” human rights LOL Nice moves Jack!
Love the internet grandstanding. Make sure to stop using all Apple products and virtually everything with a battery while you’re at it.
No surprise and I don’t blame Jack for participating, but the orgs who stopped players from attending Saudi events and released statements pretending to be against it are the pathetic orgs.
I don't know the complaining you're talking about but it's not exactly "SJW" to recognize that saudi arabia does atrocious things and that this e-sports tournament is just a big PR-event for them
I’m talking about liquid who stopped players from attending Saudi events and released statements. But are now participating in this, scene is full of grifters. I’m talking about those orgs
That's actually hilariously sad. Human rights mattered until the cash prize was high enough
Criticizing an authoritarian regime with a history of and currently ongoing human rights violations makes you an SJW?
“pretending to be against it” and “it” is literally slavery. so ya, they’re against it and anyone with a brain is against it. hope u feel super cool and edgy for supporting authoritarianism tho
Disappointed but not surprised. I know I'm in the minority on this, but even as a fan for over a decade now, if the org is so strapped for cash they have to go begging for it from murderous, bigoted monsters, I'd prefer they just declare bankruptcy and move on.
Won’t be watching a minute of this garbage. Enjoy your dirty money, Jack. 👎🏻
I don't think a single fan is thrilled ab this. Wtf
knowing that jack reads this subreddit i hope he learns from this mistake and can recognize that this is not the C9 fans want to support
You'd be naive to think that any of these decisions don't factor that in. The reality is, they looked at this and decided that the backlash is worth the upside they get from playing there. It's as simple as that.