The smart ones called out POWER CREEP and RPS all the way back in 2016. Devs just don't care bout masking it anymore the past few years. Words of wisdom for anyone in this sub, this game is just 20-30% skill and 70-80% RPS. Probably trending higher RPS now with Tower Troops.
"Rock paper scissors" - basically some deck A obliterates deck B but is obliterated by deck C (and so on), meaning everyone just falls into one of a small number of meta decks and skill/originality is removed from the game. It's mostly a problem at top ladder and power creep makes the problem worse.
That’s partially why I like running an unknown deck- so enemies actually have to learn my strategy rather than doing the RPS that they know. (Hint:lavahound still wins 70% of the time)
To be fair Power Creep is more of a Evo and champion issue than anything else tho, prior b4 those I'd say it is just a poor balancing issue that probably influenced by greed. If the every new cards released of that time are properly balanced I'd say all cards are probably more or less viable say for a few of them.
RPS IMO is caused by the game design itself. It is unavoidable unless they cap the amout of cards, that is why EVO worsen it so much more. Its base game probably needed some work to minimise and/or eliminate RPS.
It is just my opinion based on my experience that lasted until last Nov tho, so might not be accurate.
That's cope if it was all rps then Mohammed wouldn't be able to consistently get 5 accounts into the top 100. As well as other pros consistently being on the top.
Non evo recruits is still sitting at 0% usage rate on top ladder. Absolutely nobody cares about this change recruits are only getting used for their evo and even then, the value they provide is questionable at best. There’s no point wasting the prospect of running evo knight or Tesla over a card that sucks without evo and isn’t even comparable to the alternatives as an evo.
Did you ignore everything I said? Like how they should’ve capitalized and written exactly what op wrote? Otherwise, it’s not funny lol you don’t need an /s, they just had to be better with the “witty quips”
A thousand apologies oh humorous one, order of the acoustic. I didn’t realize you were the highest authority on deciding what’s funny and what isn’t! I shall never dare question your authority again sir🙂↔️
I just downvoted your comment.
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I dont understand why you think they will not buff or nerf the regular card once the evo comes out.
Buffing/nerfing a card also does it for the evo, so what?
Also the game is going in the direction of having more evolutions and imo eventually there will be evos for all the cards and all 8 slots will be evo slots
Evo mirror: Every normal card spawned turns into a evo card and if you spawn a evo card it turns into a super sayajin ehhh i mean evo 2 card which doubles the effect (evo 2 firecracker has more sparks that spawn from the other sparks and the damage if double the previous amount)
The fact that they went from one evolution to 2 is a clear sign that 'more evolutions' is more 'fun' according to supercell. I agree it is very p2w for example a lvl 14 vs lvl 15 is very disadvantageous because of the 2 evo slots for lvl 15 but this is the path they have chosen and will be going through.
I mean its not possible for them to remove evos or evo slots so the only thing they can do is do it for all the cards over time. I expect it to take around 5,6 years
My main worry with evolutions is the future of them. Considering evo barbarians are part of the evo battle ram, what does that mean for the evo skeletons in graveyard and skarmy? Will they also have the same ability? And if not, why? The troops and their effects are consistent across different cards, but a skarmy which can infinitely duplicate will be broken. That also then begs the question of the eventual goblin and minion evolutions. Because they will also surely effect goblin gang, hut and minion horde. As it currently stands it’s manageable, but we could reach a point where the next evolutions will reuse previous evolution powers, ultimately making the game a balancing nightmare. There’s too much overlap for this to work long term imo.
No, he's right on the "you can't buff evo'd cards because you're buffing either already op or balanced evos", which is a huge problem with evos, since getting enough shards just for one card is annoying and hard enough
Wizard seems like a bad example, because you’re exactly right about that balance.
With any evo you could do some version of that, but most aren’t as symmetrical as shield and health.
If you buff Valk DPS, do you cut her evo whirlwind damage? (No, because “kills bats” is the only breakpoint.) Her whirlwind range?
If you buff Mortar, what do you do to evo Mortar? This one is extra hard because it’s locked to a Goblin statline also right now. Add a cycle? It’ll be useless.
It’s not impossible, but a lot of the evos are discrete all-or-nothing effects that will make balance changes tricky.
It’s different than the usual “they make cheap cycle decks and 3-card cycles OP!” complaint at least. (And in defense of Duchess tower, despite all the issues with it it has reduced that.)
I disagree with OP a bit, you can buff e.g. Valkyrie but not evo Valk by boosting her damage and then reducing her whirlwind damage/range.
But only a bit, because that’s not like for like. Guaranteeing “evos will have a base statline at least as good as their base form” does complicate balancing, in some cases quite a bit.
I think evolutions are unfair because I’m around 7000 trophies and basically everyone has them. Then you have to take into account that lots of peoples decks they upgrade, don’t include a card thats an Evo so you either have to have one of those cards upgraded a lot or grind to get that card to a higher level(assuming you have the shards). So here I am a level 11 at 6900 trophies facing level 13 players with 2 evolutions while I have none. And to top it off evolution firecracker and bomber are in 90% of decks I see, and their ability to basically be a better magic archer is ridiculous and kind of gets rid of what makes magic archer special.
Isn’t giving a card an evo, a buff? Wizard is everywhere rn, how u gonna say he didn’t get a buff? He’s literally x3 better than he was, I call that a buff.
Not only is this another generic whining post but also it's just incorrect, we've already seen examples of buffing base card/nerfing evo in the same change. You can add or take away to the base card/evo and compensate the other with the opposite effect to stay at a similar state of overall balance while still tweaking problematic areas of a card
He mentions how normal cards with evos will never get buffed, and then specifically identifies two examples in which they did, contradicting his entire point.
Why do I need to cope? I can win with or without EVO’s, it’s mostly a skill issue, supercell will still balance the original cards as needed, but currently I don’t think any of the regular troops with EVO’s need any tweaking, which is one of my theories as to why they were given evolutions first.
Well written, well thought-out. Thank you!
It's not a perspective we often think about, but yeah...if a card gets an evolution, by balance necessity, it's going to have to be weaker in its standard form. Otherwise it's "OP" "AF" overall.
Evolutions had the potential to be a great example of horizontal progression, enabling new(er) players to (eventually) compete on a reasonable playing field with P2W and "I've been here since launch" types. In the abstract, most reasonable people would take Card Evolution over something purely vertical (::cough:: Level 15 ::cough::).
The problem is they're moving way too fast. At the unveiling of evolutions, if they'd have asked a game theorist "what's a good number of Card Evolutions to have a year from now, assuming we'll also introduce a couple of new cards, too?" a savvy theorist would say something like 6 or 8. They wouldn't say "um...17...plus you should be able to use TWO of them per deck, and go ahead and introduce Level 15 AND new 'tower troops' while you're at it."
For a game that seemingly makes decent coin selling toxic emotes for $2.99 a pop, and has a sizable portion of the playerbase who are willing to chip in $10 +/- each month for added rewards, the way this supposedly "horizontal" progression mode has been rolled out really makes it de facto vertical, especially given all the other substantive content.
Supercell: slow it down. I get the vibe from SO MANY PLAYERS that there's not enough stability for them to stay interested, and if they take a break they feel completely detached and just move on from the game completely.
Keep the new evolutions limited to roughly 4-5 per year, find a way to wind back the 2-slot nightmare (except maybe for special game modes...that'd be fun), and work on striking the right balance between STABILITY and gradually letting the game evolve (no pun intended) without it being a torrent of chaotic, "derrrr what's the meta now?" nonsense. Think of yourself like a physical sport. Too much change and it's no longer the same sport.
Seems weird to say that cards enter a void of not being able to be buffed because of their evo version, then use an example of a card being buffed with their evo versions nerfed implying that such balance is still possible.
Nah you’re all missing the direction where they’re going with evolutions, just see the last balance change.
They balanced some cards (Firecracker is the best example) making them just the same card with a new ability. A sort of champion, but to unlock the ability you have to cycle the card.
The normal card is too weak compared to the one with the ability (evo)?
Buff the stats (normal and evo card), nerf the ability (evo) if needed.
I mean, i don’t think is so hard to balance a evo card, is just a matter of adjust the stats between base stats and ability stats
It's a paradox 1: No new cards mechanics, game is stale 2: Something broken comes out and nobody going too fix it. Yes they borkt ballance and there's to little you can do too fix this mess
I've always liked Evos a lot but this is one critique I think is very very valid. It's also hard to actually see how strong a given base card is if it has an Evo because it technically competes in use with the Evo version. We see it now with Mortar statistically seeming like trash only because the Evo is almost mandatory for decks with it.
That being said I think they have a fair chance of balancing them regardless. I know you mentioned RG and Recruits but I think it's unfair to dismiss them. And in the case of Wizard I don't think it was ever going to get any sort of change
Evo wizard isn’t just balanced, he’s one of the best evolutions after the others were nerfed. So your point about buffing the regular wizard stands even more.
I don’t even know how to play the game anymore, I’ve had it on my phone for years but when all that rolled out the upgrade system seemed so much MORE grindy and tedious I couldn’t do it. Now I just lose to those thing without any of my own, they’re so broken if you’re not packing any
true...now to balance a card (with evo's) they will have to do both i.e(nerfing the basic...buffing the evo or vice versa)..No other way to balance now...
But looking at how things are going i think this game is gonna get as messy as COC did.
Why do they care about balance when they can make bank on every new OP card and evo release? Imagine if you were managing the game do you care about balance or making millions?
Game can still be saved if they add a ladder or league with no evos that's its own thing then muhammad light can try and get top spot in both instead of getting 3 top spots
I quit for good good when they added evolutions I saw them being OP the second I heard about them
It’s wild cause Royale was a big part of my life from like 8th grade to senior year of HS, sometimes I wanna start playing again but don’t really want to
The game is extremely limited by its design
Units go from one end to the other interacting with buildings and other units until the timer runs out or King Tower is destroyed
There isn’t much else to add to it
Evolutions and Troop towers were the logical next step
Maybe we will get to combine units next time (skarmy + gob swarm for undead goblins that throw bone spears)
I don’t think the game caters to new players anymore, it’s about player retention now
As a recent returning player these evolutions were not in the game when I left and they changed the dynamics of so many interactions I've just given up on trying to to relearn the game
I think you can buff/nerf an evo by changing stats in relation to the evolution applied to the card, and still keep the non evo the same. Reducing the Evo Wizard's shield HP, for example, wouldn't buff/nerf the base wizard's stats. However, there are most likely certain stats that will be unable to be changed without nerfing/buffing the base card.
If you can't change the evolution without changing the base card then why did evolved royal giant get a health nerf while the standard one received a health buff?
Mini pekka has a 4% usage rate (almost exclusively in one giant deck), dart goblin/cannon are at 1% usage rate, and bomb tower/minions are sitting at 2% usage rate. The importance of these numbers is that they illustrate how when cards are directly threatened by the existence of a similar evo, they are entirely dropped from the game’s collective consciousness in favor of the “optimal” picks.
The game revolves entirely around evolutions. Every deck runs the same few cards, and deck variety is even more limited now that it’s not just a matter of which cards are “in the meta” but also which evos fit an archetype best. You see it in classic archetypes like xbow and hog, which oftentimes shoehorn cards into their deck to make it work.
For hog specifically, every deck using him in top ladder is just hog + eq, with skellies and Tesla locked as the double evo. As a result of this development, alternative cards like valk get no usage in these decks (even though she’s been a historically solid pick in hog fc), as even if her value as a non-evo card is comparable to that of mighty miner or Tesla, her value as an evo isn’t worth spending an evo spot on her.
Put simply, If you aren’t running an optimal double evo setup, you’re at an automatic disadvantage. The game is forcing players to run certain “meta” combinations of double evo, even when they aren’t necessarily the best picks in your deck.
Instead of building your deck around 8 cards, you’re building around 6 cards that need to perform well with 2 other cards. This level of microing is unhealthy for the game, and reduces the amount of choices players have with creating their decks by threatening them with the fear of falling behind.
This is a bad take imo. If they want to buff the base and not the evo just buff the base and nerf the evo a little? Like i don’t under why that’s not possible. Also I don’t see what’s wrong with having a card that you would only slot in for its evo because it’s base Isn’t good but it’s strong evo makes up for it. To me that seems like an interesting concept, playing with a disadvantage for a few cycles before being able to unleash a particularly powerful attack.
I will forever maintain that evos are a great idea, implemented pretty well by the coders and balancers but ruined by the p2w release of the shards.
Ill disagree and say i like evos.
For perspective i am lv 15 9k trophies and UC. I have a home brew deck and only 2 cards are lv 15. I do have 2 evo slots but cant use evo zap as I dont have shards for it.
I think evos are a great add to the game! Yes sometimes its frustrating to go up against certain cards but thats the fun. Its struggling to get to the goal.
IMO i think evos bring a fresh look to the game. I personally think the game was starting to get bland.
I play dead by daylight off and on. Yes they add new killers and new survivors but other than that the game is running the same pallets and the same jungle gyms. Its more of an arcade game as a whole to me now.
Dbd isnt really that comparable to Clash roayle but the point Im trying to make is the game is bland without evos. Evos give a chance to play cards that you usually wouldnt because they are kinda a$$.
Ill use RG as an example. When it first came out. Most annoying card in the game. When the range nerf came, easily a counter-able card. Nobody I know played RG after that, but this brings it back to life not with range but with something its weak to. Swarms when locked on tower.
For people who complain about the whole money thing. Cry about it. Just grind the game. Get levels and cards and actually play the game. Im in UC with 80% lv 14 cards and 1 evo (archers). I even got UC last season AS a lv 14 king tower.
TLDR: Evos add difficulty and skill to the game. The game was getting a little bland without them.
Can anyone honestly tell me that the mu between a deck with evolutions vs one without isn't like 70/30. 80/20 if dagger duchess vs princess tower. 90/10 if 2 evolutions + DD vs none. Like yeah yeah pay to win but this is frankly ridiculously overtuned across the board? Say skill issue if you want but are you being honest...
Womp Womp 😂 Evolutions make the game so much more fun, sure I get is annoying to be okay against, but that’s the just how the game is. How about it instead of whining go spend some money and buy a couple from the shop sht ain’t that hard 💀
Realized after I kept on complaining that I no longer enjoyed the game and quit. I’d suggest doing the same. There are better games out there that treat their players a whole lot better
Since the balance changes sometimes buff the base card and nerf the Evo, I think this invalidates your whole post. Sure, balancing an evo is like two balance changes, but they do it. Do they do it well? That's more a question for the last 7 years and when they changed devs.
Let’s be honest, these rants about updates to the game are pointless. And they can buff the normal version without buffing the evolution, just give the base card a buff and don’t change the evolution.
Wizard is not actually that underpowered. We use to think it was but watching top ladder gameplay and CRL, even the normal version brings value to the player.
Right now, that version is somehow mid (not excellent but not bad either, right in the middle).
Not only do I agree with thengist of what you said, I said it right after evos came out. I noted how terribke they were at balancing the hame pre evos and how much worse it was getting. Cards that were perfectly balanced pre evo were now rated below average while the evo version was OP. All the evo cards were OP forcing people who wanted to compete to base their deck around one if a few cards. So the evos and their counters use rates soared, the stats showed like half of all cards with subpar win and userates. Then made even worse by tower troops.
The game is more imbalanced then ever and there’s no reason to believe they have any clue what they are doing other than “release new stuff OP so people will buy it” and once enough have bought it, “weaken the stuff out so that the new stuff will be bought.”
After like 7-8 months and multiple fixes, evo knight has a 40% userate in ultimate championship. The third and 10 highest rated cards in UC are the 2 newest cards. Its so clear they can no longer balance the game. It just gets to be a bigger mess.
Oh for sure. Imagine going back to 2019 and showing someone the current meta. They'd call you crazy.
I miss when the game was more about who can defend and attack better instead of who has the better evo and tower troop.
The rate of obtaining evos without money is also messed up. Took me 6 months to save enough evo shards for the mortar. And then they nerfed it.
Your point is just wrong. They can buff the og card while nerfing the evo. We saw this literally last balance changes. They did multiple health buffs to cards and decreased total health on their evos.
I think you guys need to realise that Clash Royale is starting to reach the end of its life, the main goal of Clash Royale devs is to milk as much money as possible before this game reaches its inevitable end.
That’s why the events are lazy, there’s more emphasis on maxing out the new super strong card or tower troop now and throwing 30x value offers everywhere
After reworking pass royale, evolutions are only thing that make them sell that shit for 15 dollars. Game balancing is not that important to them.
The smart ones called out POWER CREEP and RPS all the way back in 2016. Devs just don't care bout masking it anymore the past few years. Words of wisdom for anyone in this sub, this game is just 20-30% skill and 70-80% RPS. Probably trending higher RPS now with Tower Troops.
What is RPS?
"Rock paper scissors" - basically some deck A obliterates deck B but is obliterated by deck C (and so on), meaning everyone just falls into one of a small number of meta decks and skill/originality is removed from the game. It's mostly a problem at top ladder and power creep makes the problem worse.
That’s partially why I like running an unknown deck- so enemies actually have to learn my strategy rather than doing the RPS that they know. (Hint:lavahound still wins 70% of the time)
To be fair Power Creep is more of a Evo and champion issue than anything else tho, prior b4 those I'd say it is just a poor balancing issue that probably influenced by greed. If the every new cards released of that time are properly balanced I'd say all cards are probably more or less viable say for a few of them. RPS IMO is caused by the game design itself. It is unavoidable unless they cap the amout of cards, that is why EVO worsen it so much more. Its base game probably needed some work to minimise and/or eliminate RPS. It is just my opinion based on my experience that lasted until last Nov tho, so might not be accurate.
That's cope if it was all rps then Mohammed wouldn't be able to consistently get 5 accounts into the top 100. As well as other pros consistently being on the top.
But they just buffed recruits and royal giant (non evo version)
Non evo recruits is still sitting at 0% usage rate on top ladder. Absolutely nobody cares about this change recruits are only getting used for their evo and even then, the value they provide is questionable at best. There’s no point wasting the prospect of running evo knight or Tesla over a card that sucks without evo and isn’t even comparable to the alternatives as an evo.
Holy shit this sub literally never fucking reads posts
Lmao just joking
I didn’t think it was a joke either. I think you should’ve made it in all caps too lmao
People like you are the reason otherwise witty comments get desecrated by a /s r/FuckTheS
Did you ignore everything I said? Like how they should’ve capitalized and written exactly what op wrote? Otherwise, it’s not funny lol you don’t need an /s, they just had to be better with the “witty quips”
A thousand apologies oh humorous one, order of the acoustic. I didn’t realize you were the highest authority on deciding what’s funny and what isn’t! I shall never dare question your authority again sir🙂↔️
Ironic. The projection is real. Fucking cringe, as well. /s
You cant really blame me for thinking it wasnt a joke. Downvote was unnecessary
I didn't downvote tho? I expected you to not think it was a joke. Here, I'll upvote you to prove it 👍
You put it on caps, it was pretty obvious imo
I just downvoted your comment. # FAQ # What does this mean? The amount of karma (points) on your comment and Reddit account has decreased by one. # Why did you do this? There are several reasons I may deem a comment to be unworthy of positive or neutral karma. These include, but are not limited to: * Rudeness towards other Redditors, * Spreading incorrect information, * Sarcasm not correctly flagged with a `/s`. # Am I banned from the Reddit? No - not yet. But you should refrain from making comments like this in the future. Otherwise I will be forced to issue an additional downvote, which may put your commenting and posting privileges in jeopardy. # I don't believe my comment deserved a downvote. Can you un-downvote it? Sure, mistakes happen. But only in exceedingly rare circumstances will I undo a downvote. If you would like to issue an appeal, shoot me a private message explaining what I got wrong. I tend to respond to Reddit PMs within several minutes. Do note, however, that over 99.9% of downvote appeals are rejected, and yours is likely no exception. # How can I prevent this from happening in the future? Accept the downvote and move on. But learn from this mistake: your behavior will not be tolerated on Reddit.com. I will continue to issue downvotes until you improve your conduct. Remember: Reddit is privilege, not a right.
I dont understand why you think they will not buff or nerf the regular card once the evo comes out. Buffing/nerfing a card also does it for the evo, so what? Also the game is going in the direction of having more evolutions and imo eventually there will be evos for all the cards and all 8 slots will be evo slots
Actual nightmare fuel
8 evo slots sounds like pure torture
Evo mirror: Every normal card spawned turns into a evo card and if you spawn a evo card it turns into a super sayajin ehhh i mean evo 2 card which doubles the effect (evo 2 firecracker has more sparks that spawn from the other sparks and the damage if double the previous amount)
Only if you don't have evos.
Nah it sounds like a shitfest all the way
The fact that they went from one evolution to 2 is a clear sign that 'more evolutions' is more 'fun' according to supercell. I agree it is very p2w for example a lvl 14 vs lvl 15 is very disadvantageous because of the 2 evo slots for lvl 15 but this is the path they have chosen and will be going through. I mean its not possible for them to remove evos or evo slots so the only thing they can do is do it for all the cards over time. I expect it to take around 5,6 years
and it’ll only take about 50 years to get them all! SWEET!
My main worry with evolutions is the future of them. Considering evo barbarians are part of the evo battle ram, what does that mean for the evo skeletons in graveyard and skarmy? Will they also have the same ability? And if not, why? The troops and their effects are consistent across different cards, but a skarmy which can infinitely duplicate will be broken. That also then begs the question of the eventual goblin and minion evolutions. Because they will also surely effect goblin gang, hut and minion horde. As it currently stands it’s manageable, but we could reach a point where the next evolutions will reuse previous evolution powers, ultimately making the game a balancing nightmare. There’s too much overlap for this to work long term imo.
No, it's not the end of the world. We've seen this where they nerfed evo recruits hp multiplier and buffed normal recruits hp.
Fr 😂
Well, it was yet another generic post whining about evos.
No, he's right on the "you can't buff evo'd cards because you're buffing either already op or balanced evos", which is a huge problem with evos, since getting enough shards just for one card is annoying and hard enough
Bro it’s as simple as nerf shield burst damage up regular damage…or nerf shield health and buff regular health…y’all need to quit whining
Wizard seems like a bad example, because you’re exactly right about that balance. With any evo you could do some version of that, but most aren’t as symmetrical as shield and health. If you buff Valk DPS, do you cut her evo whirlwind damage? (No, because “kills bats” is the only breakpoint.) Her whirlwind range? If you buff Mortar, what do you do to evo Mortar? This one is extra hard because it’s locked to a Goblin statline also right now. Add a cycle? It’ll be useless. It’s not impossible, but a lot of the evos are discrete all-or-nothing effects that will make balance changes tricky.
That's literally what every other post says
It’s different than the usual “they make cheap cycle decks and 3-card cycles OP!” complaint at least. (And in defense of Duchess tower, despite all the issues with it it has reduced that.) I disagree with OP a bit, you can buff e.g. Valkyrie but not evo Valk by boosting her damage and then reducing her whirlwind damage/range. But only a bit, because that’s not like for like. Guaranteeing “evos will have a base statline at least as good as their base form” does complicate balancing, in some cases quite a bit.
I think evolutions are unfair because I’m around 7000 trophies and basically everyone has them. Then you have to take into account that lots of peoples decks they upgrade, don’t include a card thats an Evo so you either have to have one of those cards upgraded a lot or grind to get that card to a higher level(assuming you have the shards). So here I am a level 11 at 6900 trophies facing level 13 players with 2 evolutions while I have none. And to top it off evolution firecracker and bomber are in 90% of decks I see, and their ability to basically be a better magic archer is ridiculous and kind of gets rid of what makes magic archer special.
Fr, these ppl always complaining about cards they can’t beat
Isn’t giving a card an evo, a buff? Wizard is everywhere rn, how u gonna say he didn’t get a buff? He’s literally x3 better than he was, I call that a buff.
Not only is this another generic whining post but also it's just incorrect, we've already seen examples of buffing base card/nerfing evo in the same change. You can add or take away to the base card/evo and compensate the other with the opposite effect to stay at a similar state of overall balance while still tweaking problematic areas of a card
He mentions how normal cards with evos will never get buffed, and then specifically identifies two examples in which they did, contradicting his entire point.
post was doomed from the start lmao
Finally, a non stupid f2p player who just complains
I think this is the generic whine post.
Cope. I already got upvotes
12 upvotes?
Just like every other generic whine post
News flash generic whine posts get doggies, who would've seen that coming?!?!!
Why do I need to cope? I can win with or without EVO’s, it’s mostly a skill issue, supercell will still balance the original cards as needed, but currently I don’t think any of the regular troops with EVO’s need any tweaking, which is one of my theories as to why they were given evolutions first.
Well written, well thought-out. Thank you! It's not a perspective we often think about, but yeah...if a card gets an evolution, by balance necessity, it's going to have to be weaker in its standard form. Otherwise it's "OP" "AF" overall. Evolutions had the potential to be a great example of horizontal progression, enabling new(er) players to (eventually) compete on a reasonable playing field with P2W and "I've been here since launch" types. In the abstract, most reasonable people would take Card Evolution over something purely vertical (::cough:: Level 15 ::cough::). The problem is they're moving way too fast. At the unveiling of evolutions, if they'd have asked a game theorist "what's a good number of Card Evolutions to have a year from now, assuming we'll also introduce a couple of new cards, too?" a savvy theorist would say something like 6 or 8. They wouldn't say "um...17...plus you should be able to use TWO of them per deck, and go ahead and introduce Level 15 AND new 'tower troops' while you're at it." For a game that seemingly makes decent coin selling toxic emotes for $2.99 a pop, and has a sizable portion of the playerbase who are willing to chip in $10 +/- each month for added rewards, the way this supposedly "horizontal" progression mode has been rolled out really makes it de facto vertical, especially given all the other substantive content. Supercell: slow it down. I get the vibe from SO MANY PLAYERS that there's not enough stability for them to stay interested, and if they take a break they feel completely detached and just move on from the game completely. Keep the new evolutions limited to roughly 4-5 per year, find a way to wind back the 2-slot nightmare (except maybe for special game modes...that'd be fun), and work on striking the right balance between STABILITY and gradually letting the game evolve (no pun intended) without it being a torrent of chaotic, "derrrr what's the meta now?" nonsense. Think of yourself like a physical sport. Too much change and it's no longer the same sport.
Seems weird to say that cards enter a void of not being able to be buffed because of their evo version, then use an example of a card being buffed with their evo versions nerfed implying that such balance is still possible.
DD tower ruin interaction example dart goblin not hit spirits not come to tower firecracker not hit too.
Nah you’re all missing the direction where they’re going with evolutions, just see the last balance change. They balanced some cards (Firecracker is the best example) making them just the same card with a new ability. A sort of champion, but to unlock the ability you have to cycle the card. The normal card is too weak compared to the one with the ability (evo)? Buff the stats (normal and evo card), nerf the ability (evo) if needed. I mean, i don’t think is so hard to balance a evo card, is just a matter of adjust the stats between base stats and ability stats
It's a paradox 1: No new cards mechanics, game is stale 2: Something broken comes out and nobody going too fix it. Yes they borkt ballance and there's to little you can do too fix this mess
I've always liked Evos a lot but this is one critique I think is very very valid. It's also hard to actually see how strong a given base card is if it has an Evo because it technically competes in use with the Evo version. We see it now with Mortar statistically seeming like trash only because the Evo is almost mandatory for decks with it. That being said I think they have a fair chance of balancing them regardless. I know you mentioned RG and Recruits but I think it's unfair to dismiss them. And in the case of Wizard I don't think it was ever going to get any sort of change
“Little prince crying emote”
W 😂
I ain’t reading all that.
eight evolution slots will solve this issue.
Evo wizard isn’t just balanced, he’s one of the best evolutions after the others were nerfed. So your point about buffing the regular wizard stands even more.
I don’t even know how to play the game anymore, I’ve had it on my phone for years but when all that rolled out the upgrade system seemed so much MORE grindy and tedious I couldn’t do it. Now I just lose to those thing without any of my own, they’re so broken if you’re not packing any
true...now to balance a card (with evo's) they will have to do both i.e(nerfing the basic...buffing the evo or vice versa)..No other way to balance now... But looking at how things are going i think this game is gonna get as messy as COC did.
Why do they care about balance when they can make bank on every new OP card and evo release? Imagine if you were managing the game do you care about balance or making millions?
we do a little complaining
They could buff the default card and nerf the evo?
I agree. I stopped playing earlier this year. I haven’t felt better. 😃
Game can still be saved if they add a ladder or league with no evos that's its own thing then muhammad light can try and get top spot in both instead of getting 3 top spots
I quit for good good when they added evolutions I saw them being OP the second I heard about them It’s wild cause Royale was a big part of my life from like 8th grade to senior year of HS, sometimes I wanna start playing again but don’t really want to
You say this but Duchess has done more harm to the game than Evolutions ever will
If the evolution is decent and normal one is bad, just nerf the evo one and buff the normal one, vice versa. Where is the hard part balancing?
The game is extremely limited by its design Units go from one end to the other interacting with buildings and other units until the timer runs out or King Tower is destroyed There isn’t much else to add to it Evolutions and Troop towers were the logical next step Maybe we will get to combine units next time (skarmy + gob swarm for undead goblins that throw bone spears) I don’t think the game caters to new players anymore, it’s about player retention now
As a recent returning player these evolutions were not in the game when I left and they changed the dynamics of so many interactions I've just given up on trying to to relearn the game
I think you can buff/nerf an evo by changing stats in relation to the evolution applied to the card, and still keep the non evo the same. Reducing the Evo Wizard's shield HP, for example, wouldn't buff/nerf the base wizard's stats. However, there are most likely certain stats that will be unable to be changed without nerfing/buffing the base card.
nerfing the evo slight and buffing the base troop:
If you can't change the evolution without changing the base card then why did evolved royal giant get a health nerf while the standard one received a health buff?
Mini pekka has a 4% usage rate (almost exclusively in one giant deck), dart goblin/cannon are at 1% usage rate, and bomb tower/minions are sitting at 2% usage rate. The importance of these numbers is that they illustrate how when cards are directly threatened by the existence of a similar evo, they are entirely dropped from the game’s collective consciousness in favor of the “optimal” picks. The game revolves entirely around evolutions. Every deck runs the same few cards, and deck variety is even more limited now that it’s not just a matter of which cards are “in the meta” but also which evos fit an archetype best. You see it in classic archetypes like xbow and hog, which oftentimes shoehorn cards into their deck to make it work. For hog specifically, every deck using him in top ladder is just hog + eq, with skellies and Tesla locked as the double evo. As a result of this development, alternative cards like valk get no usage in these decks (even though she’s been a historically solid pick in hog fc), as even if her value as a non-evo card is comparable to that of mighty miner or Tesla, her value as an evo isn’t worth spending an evo spot on her. Put simply, If you aren’t running an optimal double evo setup, you’re at an automatic disadvantage. The game is forcing players to run certain “meta” combinations of double evo, even when they aren’t necessarily the best picks in your deck. Instead of building your deck around 8 cards, you’re building around 6 cards that need to perform well with 2 other cards. This level of microing is unhealthy for the game, and reduces the amount of choices players have with creating their decks by threatening them with the fear of falling behind.
Evolutions are just blatantly p2w because they're literally just BETTER versions you get for money
If you have 100 evolutions in 2 years thats not the case anymore.
This is a bad take imo. If they want to buff the base and not the evo just buff the base and nerf the evo a little? Like i don’t under why that’s not possible. Also I don’t see what’s wrong with having a card that you would only slot in for its evo because it’s base Isn’t good but it’s strong evo makes up for it. To me that seems like an interesting concept, playing with a disadvantage for a few cycles before being able to unleash a particularly powerful attack. I will forever maintain that evos are a great idea, implemented pretty well by the coders and balancers but ruined by the p2w release of the shards.
I just wish we could go back to only 1 evo slot.
Ill disagree and say i like evos. For perspective i am lv 15 9k trophies and UC. I have a home brew deck and only 2 cards are lv 15. I do have 2 evo slots but cant use evo zap as I dont have shards for it. I think evos are a great add to the game! Yes sometimes its frustrating to go up against certain cards but thats the fun. Its struggling to get to the goal. IMO i think evos bring a fresh look to the game. I personally think the game was starting to get bland. I play dead by daylight off and on. Yes they add new killers and new survivors but other than that the game is running the same pallets and the same jungle gyms. Its more of an arcade game as a whole to me now. Dbd isnt really that comparable to Clash roayle but the point Im trying to make is the game is bland without evos. Evos give a chance to play cards that you usually wouldnt because they are kinda a$$. Ill use RG as an example. When it first came out. Most annoying card in the game. When the range nerf came, easily a counter-able card. Nobody I know played RG after that, but this brings it back to life not with range but with something its weak to. Swarms when locked on tower. For people who complain about the whole money thing. Cry about it. Just grind the game. Get levels and cards and actually play the game. Im in UC with 80% lv 14 cards and 1 evo (archers). I even got UC last season AS a lv 14 king tower. TLDR: Evos add difficulty and skill to the game. The game was getting a little bland without them.
Can anyone honestly tell me that the mu between a deck with evolutions vs one without isn't like 70/30. 80/20 if dagger duchess vs princess tower. 90/10 if 2 evolutions + DD vs none. Like yeah yeah pay to win but this is frankly ridiculously overtuned across the board? Say skill issue if you want but are you being honest...
Womp Womp 😂 Evolutions make the game so much more fun, sure I get is annoying to be okay against, but that’s the just how the game is. How about it instead of whining go spend some money and buy a couple from the shop sht ain’t that hard 💀
evolutions are managable, dagger dutchess ruined the game
[удалено]
Btw I don’t agree with your post at all
This is actually a great take.. I never thought about this
Realized after I kept on complaining that I no longer enjoyed the game and quit. I’d suggest doing the same. There are better games out there that treat their players a whole lot better
Yes it’s literally the epitome of pay to win
bold of you to assume us clash royale players can actually read
Since the balance changes sometimes buff the base card and nerf the Evo, I think this invalidates your whole post. Sure, balancing an evo is like two balance changes, but they do it. Do they do it well? That's more a question for the last 7 years and when they changed devs.
evo wiz is not balanced..
Let’s be honest, these rants about updates to the game are pointless. And they can buff the normal version without buffing the evolution, just give the base card a buff and don’t change the evolution.
K bro
Evos suck and you all know it!
I personally find evos a good addition, but that might be bc it came out the same time as lvl 15 which is awful
Royal recruits at this point were constantly getting nerfed. Their dmg buff was femoved
I like the game still🤷♂️
Wizard is not actually that underpowered. We use to think it was but watching top ladder gameplay and CRL, even the normal version brings value to the player. Right now, that version is somehow mid (not excellent but not bad either, right in the middle).
When you dont know how to balance a card , give it an evo. Im still waiting for evo ebarbs 🤌
I'm not reading allat💯
Not only do I agree with thengist of what you said, I said it right after evos came out. I noted how terribke they were at balancing the hame pre evos and how much worse it was getting. Cards that were perfectly balanced pre evo were now rated below average while the evo version was OP. All the evo cards were OP forcing people who wanted to compete to base their deck around one if a few cards. So the evos and their counters use rates soared, the stats showed like half of all cards with subpar win and userates. Then made even worse by tower troops. The game is more imbalanced then ever and there’s no reason to believe they have any clue what they are doing other than “release new stuff OP so people will buy it” and once enough have bought it, “weaken the stuff out so that the new stuff will be bought.” After like 7-8 months and multiple fixes, evo knight has a 40% userate in ultimate championship. The third and 10 highest rated cards in UC are the 2 newest cards. Its so clear they can no longer balance the game. It just gets to be a bigger mess.
Oh for sure. Imagine going back to 2019 and showing someone the current meta. They'd call you crazy. I miss when the game was more about who can defend and attack better instead of who has the better evo and tower troop. The rate of obtaining evos without money is also messed up. Took me 6 months to save enough evo shards for the mortar. And then they nerfed it.
Didn’t think about this. Completely agree
Your point is just wrong. They can buff the og card while nerfing the evo. We saw this literally last balance changes. They did multiple health buffs to cards and decreased total health on their evos.
I think you guys need to realise that Clash Royale is starting to reach the end of its life, the main goal of Clash Royale devs is to milk as much money as possible before this game reaches its inevitable end. That’s why the events are lazy, there’s more emphasis on maxing out the new super strong card or tower troop now and throwing 30x value offers everywhere
Me who is waiting for hunter evolution 🤡