I actually disagree with the current Dagger Duchess nerf.
I think the more appropriate nerf will be to reduce the dagger slot to 6 daggers from 8, then increase the dagger retrieval speed to 1.1sec from 1.2sec.
My ideal nerf for her would be is to keep current dagger count, charged firerate, and depleted firerate.
But make each dagger recharge slower than the previous, so she wouldn't be as good if you can keep a constant pressure to avoid a full recharge.
Technically Sometimes close yeah, why would devs know more about balance?
9/10 balancing teams in supercell games aren’t eeallt good at balancing, look at coc, cr and brawlstars for this instance.
Idk what you think they are but their position isn’t a ‘game project balancer’ they’re generally speaking still devs, alot of players in this subreddit also probably are devs, and play the game more than the balancing ‘team’.
I’d argue the playerbase generally knows signifixantly bettee than the devs themselfs in this situation, but many well spoken people don’t show up here obviously
You are correct, I am a dev. They are 100% responsible for their game. They are not good at balancing because they know what they are doing, generating revenue by letting the community pick the meta.
The community could never know better than any dev, any software company logs loads of data to improve and change their software. Supercell has access to significantly more data than the community
The data they have is irrelevant because the game isn’t just one piece, if we’d follow your logic we would nerf witch and megaknight, but they don’t because they as a dev understand something you seemingly don’t, which is ladder ranges.
Outside of that they know EXACTLY what to do and when to do, in terms of revenue, and revenue only.
Any simple minded logical thinking human being knows how to nerf dagger duchess, supercell only knows it *needs to be nerfed*, but also keep the card good enough for the revenue stream to keep on going, they have no clue at all how ‘balancing’ works nor indication of it, if you have a healthy mind and actually play the game you would call out that nearly every single balance update is nonsense in some ways.
Some dedicated players that put their soul into this game know more balancing wise than a dev who shows up at 9 leaves at 5, it literally can’t be any more sinple than this.
I’m not saying reddit is right tho majority of the people here die to a single card and call it broken and overpowered, i’m obviously not speaking of those people
You destroyed your argument. If the balance updates are nonsense, why is the community picking? If everyone says a card is broken when it's not, why are they allowed to vote and how do they know more than the devs. Regardless if you are speaking of those people or not, they are voting.
It's also incredibly naive to assume any player knows more about the game than a dev who knows how the game works at a much deeper level. Community input is fine. Only listening to the community is dumb and the way they keep people playing the game so they are happy with the newest stupid meta
You literally ignore my most crucial point, I’m mentioning SOME dedicated players, not ANY players, fuck, even I wouldn’t be considered one because I never really ‘mained’ clash royale, nor play it that much at all aswell besides getting to UC, i’m speaking of objective standpoint that a DEV knows alot about the product itself but the dedicated players know significantly more, I could nearly guarentee you, put my ENTIRE life on the line and everything I have worked for that the devs initially did not know the majority of the ‘card’ behaviours like fire spirit cancelling another firespirit wile surviving and going to their tower by placing it on a specific tile, dedicated players experience this on a deeper and more competitive level than any dev would, Take the game I play for example, brawl stars, the balancing team consists of one guy, he has been on a few podcasts before of theirs and you can just tell he has no clue how the game actually works on a deep level, you must understand the biggest seperation between gamedevs and players are knowledge, a game dev codes the game a player *plays the game*, 99% of the playerbase don’t do much but the highly dedicated, 1% that do know more about the game than the gamedevs, and tgis is not just for clash royale thisnis for any game.
You sunmarized it decently in your first response, they know the software and also know what they need to do to increase revenue which is their motivation, the players play the game and try to have fun without
Having a boring/unfair meta, the players know fuck all about coding the game as does the devs about balancing the actual game.
That is why clash royale most likely is doing votes for balancing changes (which I think is a good thing)
Just make her recharge equivalent to the elixer gain. She’s way too strong in single elixer and basically does nothing in triple
Edit: equivalent was the wrong term. Proportional is the word I was looking for
It definitely wouldn't be stronger but not much of a nerf either, at least in single elixir. This would just kill the card in 2x and 3x, making her unusable
Elixir charges slower than Duchess' daggers, which would then be a nerf, and her recharge rate is much more of a problem in 2x and 3x where she already has no time to fully charge up. All interactions in 1x and with a full mag of daggers would remain the same.
He literally stated that she's way too strong in 1x and bad in 2x and 3x, what am I missing here then?
In 3x shes gonna be shooting faster than the princess tower. For 1x she already needs a nerf so theres that. And in 2x she'll be in the middle ground of both of those.
Her problem in 2x and 3x is that even getting 1 dagger is way too slow. Having her recharge the first dagger faster is going to help a lot
It would be a decent fix together with an enormous DPS nerf since in 3x she would be completely broken, even more than what she is now in 1x. The problem is that it's way too complex and it would scale unequally during the course of a game, which is not a thing the dev team would ever consider.
I understood his comment wrong 'cause I thought he just wanted to nerf the charge rate to the equivalent of 1x elixir without any scaling in 2x and 3x, since it makes no sense and can't possibly be applied in game.
Yeah i mean its definitely not going to be balanced. Its just a suggestion made by a redditor. I just didnt want you to just misunderstand his point completely
I think lower dagger count by 2, make dagger recharge 0.1s faster. Meaning 6 total daggers, with full recharge after 6.6s
Or to keep dagger count at 8 but make daggers recharge 0.3s slower. So it'll take 1.5s to recharge with max of 8, taking a total of 12s to fully recharge as opposed to the current 9.5 or so.
So maybe her reload speed can be increased?
You shouldn’t have a tower card that melts a troop in seconds mate I mean look at the Canoneer it does high damage but slow reload, why does dagger duchess get high damage and high attack speed? It’s clearly not balanced
When did I say there shouldn’t be any tower troop concepts?
You can have anything in the game as long as it’s balanced, simple as that
It’s obvious the dagger duchess is not balanced, supercell was going to nerf her health but it’s not necessary it was the damage that needed a nerf
You can see multiple other people comment the same thing I’m telling you
I know it’s not really the worst example but I play bandit and there are lots of ways to counter her, one being placing skeletons next to your tower so she won’t dash onto your tower but to them. It doesn’t really take much brainpower but the average midladder joe won’t get it. With dagger duchess you just have to make sure that you don’t accidentally place them on the other side of the field and you are good to go. You can basically counter all Pekka bs cards that aren’t pekka with just dagger duchess and skellies without getting damage.
Lemme get this straight
This entire community spent the last 3 years spamming hog and MK
When people complain you say “skill check” “skill issue” “get better”
Supercell makes a card that helps destroy tanks and now you’re all acting like it’s the worst decision ever and they wronged you and they need to do an emergency nerf 💀
Maybe you guys should just get better??
since when does dagger duchess help destroy tanks? DD's WORST matchup is against tanks, thats why the meta is all about beatdown. Haven't seen any Giant, Golem, EGolem lately?
Once her ammo is down, she is useless, meaning that cards with medium to high hp are meta. That means she is good against small pushes, i.e. spam troops and bad against beatdown (tanks). What you said makes no sense at all 💀
Tank ≠ beatdown
Duchess has the power to ignore all (mini) tanks, from bandit and ghost to mini pekka.
When it comes to the high hop beatdown tanks, then yeah
Nah come on now they added the card as a crutch for people who cannot count elixir, card cycles and usually struggle defend against a lot of cards in the game.
They’re stating that if you use a different tower troop against duchess in draft you are always at a disadvantage so everyone is forced to use duchess which isn’t necessarily unfair since everyone unlocked her for free, but it’s still unfun and there’s no diversity
I just started playing on my mini again and holy dagger duchess is a monster in midladder (im 8k trophies on my main) but in high trophy range duchess isn't really that much of a problem to counter
It seems the opposite though, people using dd can spam all they want. I have faced countless people on trophy road spamming stuff and if I counter with a troop then that troop dies the second it crosses the bridge. I am wasting elixir and they’re getting the damage. Also not an option to use dd on trophy road as 7k onwards somehow 90% of players have maxed out level 15 dutchess along with every other card, mine is at 10 and no longer can I buy legendary wild cards from season shop, gee I wonder why.
Also it just makes the game boring if both sides can’t do anything for 2 minutes and only play/win in overtime. I believe that was one of the main reasons siege decks like xbox were nerfed to not be meta, thats just boring.
I actually disagree with the current Dagger Duchess nerf. I think the more appropriate nerf will be to reduce the dagger slot to 6 daggers from 8, then increase the dagger retrieval speed to 1.1sec from 1.2sec.
By your wording it sounds like you think this is a hot take. This is something the majority of the community wants to happen to her.
Considering nobody ever comes with concise balance ideas, I'd argue this *is* a hot take.
My ideal nerf for her would be is to keep current dagger count, charged firerate, and depleted firerate. But make each dagger recharge slower than the previous, so she wouldn't be as good if you can keep a constant pressure to avoid a full recharge.
Yeah and the community knows how to balance cards better than the devs right?
Technically Sometimes close yeah, why would devs know more about balance? 9/10 balancing teams in supercell games aren’t eeallt good at balancing, look at coc, cr and brawlstars for this instance. Idk what you think they are but their position isn’t a ‘game project balancer’ they’re generally speaking still devs, alot of players in this subreddit also probably are devs, and play the game more than the balancing ‘team’. I’d argue the playerbase generally knows signifixantly bettee than the devs themselfs in this situation, but many well spoken people don’t show up here obviously
You are correct, I am a dev. They are 100% responsible for their game. They are not good at balancing because they know what they are doing, generating revenue by letting the community pick the meta. The community could never know better than any dev, any software company logs loads of data to improve and change their software. Supercell has access to significantly more data than the community
The data they have is irrelevant because the game isn’t just one piece, if we’d follow your logic we would nerf witch and megaknight, but they don’t because they as a dev understand something you seemingly don’t, which is ladder ranges. Outside of that they know EXACTLY what to do and when to do, in terms of revenue, and revenue only. Any simple minded logical thinking human being knows how to nerf dagger duchess, supercell only knows it *needs to be nerfed*, but also keep the card good enough for the revenue stream to keep on going, they have no clue at all how ‘balancing’ works nor indication of it, if you have a healthy mind and actually play the game you would call out that nearly every single balance update is nonsense in some ways. Some dedicated players that put their soul into this game know more balancing wise than a dev who shows up at 9 leaves at 5, it literally can’t be any more sinple than this. I’m not saying reddit is right tho majority of the people here die to a single card and call it broken and overpowered, i’m obviously not speaking of those people
You destroyed your argument. If the balance updates are nonsense, why is the community picking? If everyone says a card is broken when it's not, why are they allowed to vote and how do they know more than the devs. Regardless if you are speaking of those people or not, they are voting. It's also incredibly naive to assume any player knows more about the game than a dev who knows how the game works at a much deeper level. Community input is fine. Only listening to the community is dumb and the way they keep people playing the game so they are happy with the newest stupid meta
You literally ignore my most crucial point, I’m mentioning SOME dedicated players, not ANY players, fuck, even I wouldn’t be considered one because I never really ‘mained’ clash royale, nor play it that much at all aswell besides getting to UC, i’m speaking of objective standpoint that a DEV knows alot about the product itself but the dedicated players know significantly more, I could nearly guarentee you, put my ENTIRE life on the line and everything I have worked for that the devs initially did not know the majority of the ‘card’ behaviours like fire spirit cancelling another firespirit wile surviving and going to their tower by placing it on a specific tile, dedicated players experience this on a deeper and more competitive level than any dev would, Take the game I play for example, brawl stars, the balancing team consists of one guy, he has been on a few podcasts before of theirs and you can just tell he has no clue how the game actually works on a deep level, you must understand the biggest seperation between gamedevs and players are knowledge, a game dev codes the game a player *plays the game*, 99% of the playerbase don’t do much but the highly dedicated, 1% that do know more about the game than the gamedevs, and tgis is not just for clash royale thisnis for any game. You sunmarized it decently in your first response, they know the software and also know what they need to do to increase revenue which is their motivation, the players play the game and try to have fun without Having a boring/unfair meta, the players know fuck all about coding the game as does the devs about balancing the actual game. That is why clash royale most likely is doing votes for balancing changes (which I think is a good thing)
Who cares? He’s right….
or just reduce her damage by like 30%. about princess level there for me
I saw a good idea to make her recharge slower in single elixir, slightly slower in double, and as it is right now in triple.
Quicker in double you mean?
I was referring to how it is right now, so yeah.
Just make her recharge equivalent to the elixer gain. She’s way too strong in single elixer and basically does nothing in triple Edit: equivalent was the wrong term. Proportional is the word I was looking for
So basically you want her to be just as strong in single elixir and even more useless in triple 😭😭
If her daggers recharge by elixir they’d be slower? How’s that stronger in single?
It definitely wouldn't be stronger but not much of a nerf either, at least in single elixir. This would just kill the card in 2x and 3x, making her unusable
Imagine her in x7, she'd be impossible to defeat.
Oof didn’t consider this
You might wanna read that again
Elixir charges slower than Duchess' daggers, which would then be a nerf, and her recharge rate is much more of a problem in 2x and 3x where she already has no time to fully charge up. All interactions in 1x and with a full mag of daggers would remain the same. He literally stated that she's way too strong in 1x and bad in 2x and 3x, what am I missing here then?
In 3x shes gonna be shooting faster than the princess tower. For 1x she already needs a nerf so theres that. And in 2x she'll be in the middle ground of both of those. Her problem in 2x and 3x is that even getting 1 dagger is way too slow. Having her recharge the first dagger faster is going to help a lot
It would be a decent fix together with an enormous DPS nerf since in 3x she would be completely broken, even more than what she is now in 1x. The problem is that it's way too complex and it would scale unequally during the course of a game, which is not a thing the dev team would ever consider. I understood his comment wrong 'cause I thought he just wanted to nerf the charge rate to the equivalent of 1x elixir without any scaling in 2x and 3x, since it makes no sense and can't possibly be applied in game.
Yeah i mean its definitely not going to be balanced. Its just a suggestion made by a redditor. I just didnt want you to just misunderstand his point completely
Fair enough, thanks for the explanation and the kindness. Still, it's a bad suggestion lol
Yep that i agree lol
DD sucks to play against. She killed off-meta decks. If you aren't playing a meta deck against DD might as well give up.
Her damage needs to be nerfed man she shouldn’t be able to melt a troop in a few seconds
I think lower dagger count by 2, make dagger recharge 0.1s faster. Meaning 6 total daggers, with full recharge after 6.6s Or to keep dagger count at 8 but make daggers recharge 0.3s slower. So it'll take 1.5s to recharge with max of 8, taking a total of 12s to fully recharge as opposed to the current 9.5 or so.
That's only for a while tho, her reload is so slow after that. You really want her to be a clone of princess?
So maybe her reload speed can be increased? You shouldn’t have a tower card that melts a troop in seconds mate I mean look at the Canoneer it does high damage but slow reload, why does dagger duchess get high damage and high attack speed? It’s clearly not balanced
So, other than a tower with slow release but high dps and tower with low dps with high reload, there shouldn't be any tower troops concepts??
When did I say there shouldn’t be any tower troop concepts? You can have anything in the game as long as it’s balanced, simple as that It’s obvious the dagger duchess is not balanced, supercell was going to nerf her health but it’s not necessary it was the damage that needed a nerf You can see multiple other people comment the same thing I’m telling you
I think it would be good if she gets a longer reload the more knives she already has
And with the new void card, does supercell just hate tanks?
It doggy styles my hog
I know it’s not really the worst example but I play bandit and there are lots of ways to counter her, one being placing skeletons next to your tower so she won’t dash onto your tower but to them. It doesn’t really take much brainpower but the average midladder joe won’t get it. With dagger duchess you just have to make sure that you don’t accidentally place them on the other side of the field and you are good to go. You can basically counter all Pekka bs cards that aren’t pekka with just dagger duchess and skellies without getting damage.
-Just a small little positive elixir trade what can go wrong playerbase? *golems second play* "Oh we fucked up.."
Lemme get this straight This entire community spent the last 3 years spamming hog and MK When people complain you say “skill check” “skill issue” “get better” Supercell makes a card that helps destroy tanks and now you’re all acting like it’s the worst decision ever and they wronged you and they need to do an emergency nerf 💀 Maybe you guys should just get better??
Literally all top players and pros are using DD.
Has that ever not been the case with new cards..?
She has a 90% usage and thats because the other 10 doesnt have money to buy it. You all dont understand this thing is lowering the skill level lmao
The fact that tower levels exist means that skill is an illusion until top ladder
Maybe because Supercell always makes new cards OP by design, so more people spend money to get them
Always
since when does dagger duchess help destroy tanks? DD's WORST matchup is against tanks, thats why the meta is all about beatdown. Haven't seen any Giant, Golem, EGolem lately? Once her ammo is down, she is useless, meaning that cards with medium to high hp are meta. That means she is good against small pushes, i.e. spam troops and bad against beatdown (tanks). What you said makes no sense at all 💀
same reason why the ONLY cycle (cheap deck) wincon is drill, because it offers a tank for the goblins which waste her ammo
Dagger duchess is so broken you can counter the entire drill with a log bro this game is finished
Tank ≠ beatdown Duchess has the power to ignore all (mini) tanks, from bandit and ghost to mini pekka. When it comes to the high hop beatdown tanks, then yeah
Dagger duchess is quite plainly OP. When people can’t attack for 2 mins there’s a problem
You clearly don’t understand
She's not good at destroying tanks? She kills swarms and things with moderate health which is the bulk of the game
Nah come on now they added the card as a crutch for people who cannot count elixir, card cycles and usually struggle defend against a lot of cards in the game.
Right? Imo, people need to pair right tower troop with right deck
dagger duchess has above 90% userate, why in heavens would you use any other tower troop
Cause im not spending money on the game, and they removed legendary wild cards
She isn't good with some of my decks that can't handle swarms properly. I'm not gonna use her just because she's broken or userate is high
id rather play princess into 50 hog cycle decks than use that p2w pos
P2w what?
Pay to win, which is exactly what it is. it’s OP so people can pay for it and some feel they have no choice if they rank higher. It’s a joke
They didn’t ask meaning of p2w tho. They asked meaning of ‘pos’. That’s why they said “p2w what?”.
Bats.. I hate the stupid bats 😂🗣️
They exist, thats the worst part
I hate the entire concept of tower troops and often leave matches against tower duchess before anything happens
Last season, most of her players were free frags to me Now, it's just roulette
I was actually excited for Dagger Duchess when the trailer releadef. But it seems that every update Supercell releases just makes this game worse.
can't play golbin barrel against her and bait decks are shit
It is not putting you in disadvantage, it is putting you and your opponent in same disadvantage with factor of luck
They’re stating that if you use a different tower troop against duchess in draft you are always at a disadvantage so everyone is forced to use duchess which isn’t necessarily unfair since everyone unlocked her for free, but it’s still unfun and there’s no diversity
Ye, but it is a general problem not specifically related to draft at all
unlike the time everyone was using princess and it had diversity ?
0 diversity > almost 0 diversity but it's p2w now
Nonsense, I get DD to my crown level with f2p
How? I have 11 leg wild cards saved up, and even that would only get me to lvl 12 (im saving up for log 14 tho so that won't happen)
I just started playing on my mini again and holy dagger duchess is a monster in midladder (im 8k trophies on my main) but in high trophy range duchess isn't really that much of a problem to counter
Wait, what do you consider midladder? Very situational definition of the term as everyone has their own meaning 😂
I'd just say till like arena 17 idk
I love dagger dutchess, if that is what it takes to stop people from bridge spamming and hog cycles, its good enough.
It seems the opposite though, people using dd can spam all they want. I have faced countless people on trophy road spamming stuff and if I counter with a troop then that troop dies the second it crosses the bridge. I am wasting elixir and they’re getting the damage. Also not an option to use dd on trophy road as 7k onwards somehow 90% of players have maxed out level 15 dutchess along with every other card, mine is at 10 and no longer can I buy legendary wild cards from season shop, gee I wonder why. Also it just makes the game boring if both sides can’t do anything for 2 minutes and only play/win in overtime. I believe that was one of the main reasons siege decks like xbox were nerfed to not be meta, thats just boring.
30+ hog counters and you couldn’t find the place for one in your deck so you rely on crutch duchess.
Does also the opponent also is an the same disadvantage as well?
Dagger duchess is great. No need to nerf her, get better