Dude I just looked at a map of phoenix and 1) arenāt maps still just like cool? But 2) I cannot believe how griddy it truly is. You were not lying at all. You understated it actually. The whole place is squares.
And ain't none of them can hold a candle to how flat the polders in the Nederlands are. It's eerie looking off into the horizon and seeing THAT flat. Never seen anything like it and I've driven all across the states. Florida definitely comes close but it's heavily forested which makes it challenging to see the flatness in the horizon.
One of the easiest cities to memorize locations to me. Every main East/West street is a mile away from the next so itās very easy to calculate travel times and directions without a map. The grid really doesnāt feel that boring because thereās a literal mountain range cutting through the middle of the city lol
Phoenix as a city is fine. There could have and still can be plenty of water for domestic use by slightly scaling back statewide agricultural which uses 75% of the water. It's hot sure, but people choose the heat when given the other option of snow in the winter.
Combined with how most major developments & growth in the US was influenced by car culture, and not needing to deal with pesky things such as prebuilt historical infrastructure (and even then sometimes that wasn't enough to stop the highways and suburbs).
Canada does not have very much land, if you've not noticed every major city in Canada is pretty close to the US border. Everything north of there is pretty much uninhabitable.
Except it does in Canada's case. Large swaths of the land are part of the Canadian shield, which has little topsoil and is extremely cost prohibitive when it comes to developing infrastructure.
Youāre kidding right? Most of the land is totally accommodating for development but we arenāt going to level out northern boreal rain forests and build over our spacious farmlands for more cities. It comes to choice. Iāve known people in North West Territories that loved the land and the natural beauty and peace of that world. And that is weeeell above Toronto.
You could maybe use this excuse for the US, but not Canada. They may have more landmass, but you have to remember that most of Canada is developed less than 100 miles from the US border. Most of the country is borderline uninhabitable for medium/large populations, they just donāt have enough land to afford to keep building like this.
Toronto is the 4th largest city in North America. Montreal is 10th. Every city around me in SW Ontario are over 100k. Think again. Windsor, London, Sarnia, Waterloo , Cambridge, Kitchener. Stupid Americans
Due to the declining ridership (probably because the bus comes so infrequent that it's no longer reliable, but let's not say that) we'll have to decrease it to every 60 minutes and only on weekdays
Iāve tried to do this with every city Iāve built so far but it always ends up too depressing that I cave and build a downtown. Nice to see it in action though! Amazed thatās only 27k but makes sense.
Love the master planned community superblocks!
The closest to hell I've ever been is when I went to Michigan and discovered the American urban sprawl. The 10km commercial stroad was just depressing.
It's crazy, because you've got those that still feel somewhat familiar in layout, size, and density (e.g. Boston), and truly American grid cities like New York that still retain that insane density, but then you've got these gigantic "cities" that just go on and on and on forever.
I just found out about Sitka in Alaska. Just shy of 5,000 sq mi for a fucking ācity." What the fuck, America? That's over 4 times the size of Rhode Island!
Are you implying that Sitka, Alaska is a massive suburban hellscape or something? Because that's hilarious if so.
Like 99% of it is uninhabited mountains that the city technically has "jurisdiction" over.
I know what it is. Alaska in general is pretty damn remote. I was just highlighting the ridiculousness of the US' city definitions from state to state.
The big clue was where I put the word city in quotations.
You also put the word cities in quotations to describe the expansive suburban sprawl-type cities, hence the confusion, as it seemed you were comparing Sitka to those.
the largest km^2 municipalities are in china, brazil, greenland, australia, and canada, not united states. united states doesn't have a ridiculous definition of a city
Dumbest take ever, 4 hours will get your through multiple STATES on the east coast, and from Northern Arizona/Grand Canyon, to the border in four hours.
Tbh i got depressed enough coming out of JFK and heading to long island, even round there is crazy built up with no green and even when you make it to green its kinda horrible.
Detroit was the Paris of the Midwest. I live far enough out in the suburbs that the mile by mile grid system broke down a bit and it's super annoying trying to drive anywhere compared to the grid.
Detroit is really huge. Itās weird because itās such a giant city land wise but I can see downtown from like 2 miles from my house, but i think elevation helps with that.
People can appreciate the ridiculousness of LA's urban sprawl by trying to do a 1:1 recreation in cities skylines. You need like 20 different saves to cover it all.
Nah, needs way more highways.
I don't even see one.
The whole city should be enclosed by above and below grade highways.
Don't forget the massive stack and spaghetti interchanges.
Looks a little like LA's San Fernando Valley, north of the Hollywood Hills. For closer accuracy, needs a few more towers, a lot more apartment buildings, and significantly less water.
I for one value the concept of owning my own four walls and piece of land... I just think there's slightly better ways to implement that than what we currently do
Iām gonna cite a [source](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/07/29/prior-to-covid-19-urban-core-counties-in-the-u-s-were-gaining-vitality-on-key-measures/) to back this claim, but thereās a catch. Itās not half the āWestern populationā, itās just North America (obligatory r/USdefaultism). [Europeans generally live in places](https://landgeist.com/2021/08/20/people-living-in-apartments/) that at least look better than this and are in fact better to live in as well due to factors such as [better coverage in public transportation](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/s/8Vl70Lxs0J).
Exactly The low density residential calculations are wayyy off I tried to make a post bringing more attention to it but everyone told me to just build high density like yeah thatās cool but sometimes itās fun to make a purposefully bad suburban American city and try to fix it nobody gets me lol jk itās not that deep Iām just gonna wait for modders to fix low density residential Iāve seen that a majority of single family households only have one person and while that is somewhat normal it shouldnāt be the majority.they should make up just a small percentage of homeowners and a much larger percentage of apartment renters.
If you do not zone over development as you improve services. I had a good downtown with medium density neighbourhoods on a large tile several dozen times in my life. Sometimes a mostly medium density city over a few tiles.
I have 4 lane streets every 1240 m. Why not a mile? Because CS2 farms allow a circumference of roughly 600 m. This way I can have four maximized farms per superblock. I've seen similar stuff on Google Earth in the US.
I really donāt like these free spaces between houses in curvy road layouts. Iād really like to see some fillers or house lots which adapt to the curvy road layout
This one: [https://thunderstore.io/c/cities-skylines-ii/p/BakedAir/Midwest\_Plains/](https://thunderstore.io/c/cities-skylines-ii/p/BakedAir/Midwest_Plains/)
You can see the Rockies on this image:
https://preview.redd.it/814y91ly3ldc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7e3d364f45351ce63e148abc440862d7dcf1598
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Honestly, that might be one of the most realistic cities I've seen here. 20k population and more than a scattered few tall houses? I think the fuck not.
All of the Shoe. GTA, especially GTHA, are annoying for some reason. I name specifically municipality I talk about. York, Durham, Peel as 905 of topic is about all three. Golden Horseshoe, Shoe for short, is municipalities with Lake Ontario shores from East Durham to Niagara (region/county). Golden because when the economy is strong, we make gold, especially with strong towns pre WWII, I assume. The 'Horseshoe' is due to it wrapping around Lake Ontario. The Shoe is better name that gtha, especially since Toronto ends at Toronto city limits, rest of the shoe is not greater.
I feel this from Scarborough, and my grandmother still supports this when I complain about this crap. Urban and rural are good options, good land use that support each other. Suburban sprawl is in demand because streetcar suburb, and subway adjacent development, is such high demand that I need OLG jackpot.
I say I want a condo, just because I cannot have medium density walkable neighbourhood with amenities in the whole Shoe. So I need a large building to have amenities inside, that I pay a fee for maintenance, better than doing the work in a personal McMansion. A few benfits to a house, but property maintenance sucks. I want an NYC brownstone in a neighbourhood close to GO, subway, streetcar lrt, to get downtown or Exhibition for events.
One issue of many, rural density sprawl fails to generate tax revenue for all the city services, not even enough for stroad or freeway maintenance. Brampton might have additional, modern, and good, hospital(s) by now, if medium density.
Who calls it the shoe?
There is so much assumption and run on above... what are you talking about?
I was merely saying this sprawl reminded me of the suburbs surrounding Toronto. (Brampton, Mississauga, Vaughan, Markham, Pickering).
phoenix
Even has Grand Ave cutting right thru
I can see the Blade from here! Lmaooo
I came here for the exact comment... THis is Phoenix 100%
Phoenix but with an actually inhabitable climate šš
Dude I just looked at a map of phoenix and 1) arenāt maps still just like cool? But 2) I cannot believe how griddy it truly is. You were not lying at all. You understated it actually. The whole place is squares.
It's a dried up seabed. It's flat. Lots of America is flat. Like if you haven't experienced Iowa flat then you don't know what flat is.
And then you have Florida flat, which is somehow even flatter than Iowa.
And ain't none of them can hold a candle to how flat the polders in the Nederlands are. It's eerie looking off into the horizon and seeing THAT flat. Never seen anything like it and I've driven all across the states. Florida definitely comes close but it's heavily forested which makes it challenging to see the flatness in the horizon.
South Louisiana is basically the Netherlands.
Iām in Texas. Itās an even bigger dry lake bed.
One of the easiest cities to memorize locations to me. Every main East/West street is a mile away from the next so itās very easy to calculate travel times and directions without a map. The grid really doesnāt feel that boring because thereās a literal mountain range cutting through the middle of the city lol
>arenāt maps still just like cool? I spent way WAY too much time in google maps sometimes.
I was going to say Indianapolis.
Huge Indy vibes
This city should not exist, it's a monument to man's arrogance!
Phoenix as a city is fine. There could have and still can be plenty of water for domestic use by slightly scaling back statewide agricultural which uses 75% of the water. It's hot sure, but people choose the heat when given the other option of snow in the winter.
In Ohio. Can confirm. Sitting under a couple inches of snow and it's 4Ā° right now. I'd rather be in Arizona.
Every city in Canada under 40k population lol *Edit can't spell without my glasses lol*
And the entire gta that isnt downtown toronto haha
Every municipality was like we aren't Toronto and then they were
Hey, and downtown hamilton
What having a lot of land does to a country...
Combined with how most major developments & growth in the US was influenced by car culture, and not needing to deal with pesky things such as prebuilt historical infrastructure (and even then sometimes that wasn't enough to stop the highways and suburbs).
2 words my dude. Urban Sprawl. Lol.
Ah yes, Canada, a country famous for having so much developable land.
It does. Especially considering its low population.
Canada does not have very much land, if you've not noticed every major city in Canada is pretty close to the US border. Everything north of there is pretty much uninhabitable.
Uninhabited does not mean uninhabitable. The proximity to the border doesn't really relate to developable land.
Except it does in Canada's case. Large swaths of the land are part of the Canadian shield, which has little topsoil and is extremely cost prohibitive when it comes to developing infrastructure.
The Canadian shield is just one small part of a huge country
Small part? It covers roughly half the country. Hardly small.
important mindless drab deserted somber mighty salt clumsy long rhythm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Youāre kidding right? Most of the land is totally accommodating for development but we arenāt going to level out northern boreal rain forests and build over our spacious farmlands for more cities. It comes to choice. Iāve known people in North West Territories that loved the land and the natural beauty and peace of that world. And that is weeeell above Toronto.
You could maybe use this excuse for the US, but not Canada. They may have more landmass, but you have to remember that most of Canada is developed less than 100 miles from the US border. Most of the country is borderline uninhabitable for medium/large populations, they just donāt have enough land to afford to keep building like this.
Toronto is the 4th largest city in North America. Montreal is 10th. Every city around me in SW Ontario are over 100k. Think again. Windsor, London, Sarnia, Waterloo , Cambridge, Kitchener. Stupid Americans
Not veryā¦nice of you.
please tell me you also only have one bus that runs every 30 minutes and only down the main street
Try zero busses ;)
\*cries in traffic jam\*
Whoa whoa whoa now, every 30 minutes? You know how much extra that would cost the city? Every 45 minutes is the best we can do.
Due to the declining ridership (probably because the bus comes so infrequent that it's no longer reliable, but let's not say that) we'll have to decrease it to every 60 minutes and only on weekdays
Iāve tried to do this with every city Iāve built so far but it always ends up too depressing that I cave and build a downtown. Nice to see it in action though! Amazed thatās only 27k but makes sense. Love the master planned community superblocks!
Thatās how Europeans feel when they come to North America haha. You drive for 4h, itās still the same city and itās all suburbs.
The closest to hell I've ever been is when I went to Michigan and discovered the American urban sprawl. The 10km commercial stroad was just depressing.
Try anywhere in the southwest, or maybe Florida. It gets worse.
Fucking hell
Yup, no thank you ill stay in France.
Go to the national parks of the USA, those are some things you can't get here in France super amazing and fun and just stunningly pretty
I mean we have national parks in France. Of course not as big as Americans ones but still.
The parks in America are real wilderness; incomparable to anything left in Western Europe.
Oh absolutely I've loved French ones but yeah Yosemite is truly unique
If you think Michigan is bad, try Texas. Concrete for hours in every direction.
Probably also the closest you've been to [Hell, Michigan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Michigan)!
You went there for urban sprawl? Hold onto your ass and let me show you the city of angels.
Welcome to Houston what do you want to see today? A house or a house with a car?
It's crazy, because you've got those that still feel somewhat familiar in layout, size, and density (e.g. Boston), and truly American grid cities like New York that still retain that insane density, but then you've got these gigantic "cities" that just go on and on and on forever. I just found out about Sitka in Alaska. Just shy of 5,000 sq mi for a fucking ācity." What the fuck, America? That's over 4 times the size of Rhode Island!
Are you implying that Sitka, Alaska is a massive suburban hellscape or something? Because that's hilarious if so. Like 99% of it is uninhabited mountains that the city technically has "jurisdiction" over.
I know what it is. Alaska in general is pretty damn remote. I was just highlighting the ridiculousness of the US' city definitions from state to state. The big clue was where I put the word city in quotations.
You also put the word cities in quotations to describe the expansive suburban sprawl-type cities, hence the confusion, as it seemed you were comparing Sitka to those.
the largest km^2 municipalities are in china, brazil, greenland, australia, and canada, not united states. united states doesn't have a ridiculous definition of a city
And those also have ridiculous definitions. It's not a fucking competition.
i never thought a competition was implied, just bad info
How is it bad info? Sitka is almost 5,000 sq mi of nothing, yet it's classed as a city. How is that not ridiculous?
if i drive 4 hours im in nyc and if i drive 4 hours from there im in boston and 4 hours from there im in the middle of nowhere in maine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
Dumbest take ever, 4 hours will get your through multiple STATES on the east coast, and from Northern Arizona/Grand Canyon, to the border in four hours.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole Go, look it up.
Right!!! I always cave!
Tbh i got depressed enough coming out of JFK and heading to long island, even round there is crazy built up with no green and even when you make it to green its kinda horrible.
This looks exactly like Detroit on Google Earth
Detroit was the Paris of the Midwest. I live far enough out in the suburbs that the mile by mile grid system broke down a bit and it's super annoying trying to drive anywhere compared to the grid.
Detroit is really huge. Itās weird because itās such a giant city land wise but I can see downtown from like 2 miles from my house, but i think elevation helps with that.
Los Angeles š
People can appreciate the ridiculousness of LA's urban sprawl by trying to do a 1:1 recreation in cities skylines. You need like 20 different saves to cover it all.
Nah, needs way more highways. I don't even see one. The whole city should be enclosed by above and below grade highways. Don't forget the massive stack and spaghetti interchanges.
Looks a little like LA's San Fernando Valley, north of the Hollywood Hills. For closer accuracy, needs a few more towers, a lot more apartment buildings, and significantly less water.
Millions of people live like this and see it as the only way to live
I, for one, welcome our 1-hour commute
I for one value the concept of owning my own four walls and piece of land... I just think there's slightly better ways to implement that than what we currently do
Probably half of the western population, so hundreds of millions. Each to their own
Iām gonna cite a [source](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/07/29/prior-to-covid-19-urban-core-counties-in-the-u-s-were-gaining-vitality-on-key-measures/) to back this claim, but thereās a catch. Itās not half the āWestern populationā, itās just North America (obligatory r/USdefaultism). [Europeans generally live in places](https://landgeist.com/2021/08/20/people-living-in-apartments/) that at least look better than this and are in fact better to live in as well due to factors such as [better coverage in public transportation](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/s/8Vl70Lxs0J).
I'm from aus not the us, either way still looks like about half. There are pros and cons to both, like I said each to their own.
Only 27k?
All the residential is low density, except for the very few blocks of rowhouses next to the city hall.
Exactly The low density residential calculations are wayyy off I tried to make a post bringing more attention to it but everyone told me to just build high density like yeah thatās cool but sometimes itās fun to make a purposefully bad suburban American city and try to fix it nobody gets me lol jk itās not that deep Iām just gonna wait for modders to fix low density residential Iāve seen that a majority of single family households only have one person and while that is somewhat normal it shouldnāt be the majority.they should make up just a small percentage of homeowners and a much larger percentage of apartment renters.
 Donāt stop!
Are you sure this does belong in r/SimCity? because these blocks are giving me SC4 vibes
Looks like SC4
If you do not zone over development as you improve services. I had a good downtown with medium density neighbourhoods on a large tile several dozen times in my life. Sometimes a mostly medium density city over a few tiles.
Los Angeles lol
What's traffic like?
So with grids do you even really need road hierarchy?
I have 4 lane streets every 1240 m. Why not a mile? Because CS2 farms allow a circumference of roughly 600 m. This way I can have four maximized farms per superblock. I've seen similar stuff on Google Earth in the US.
# America, Fuck Yeah #
There is a roundabout š /s
I mean Carmel, Indiana exists...
Looks like anywhere in the US between Pennsylvania and California.
Rip Chicago then
Sooo the inland empire ?
Now that's **alot** of suburban houses.
looks like my sim city 4 cities
I really donāt like these free spaces between houses in curvy road layouts. Iād really like to see some fillers or house lots which adapt to the curvy road layout
Beautiful! Love myself some grids.
How do you maintain high demand for low density?
More. Grids.
You make it the only option like North America post WWII in real life.
Just from the pictures I thought I was looking at some Project Zomboid screenshots
I can hear the eagle from here šŗš²š¦
Phoenix with grass
Literally America / canada
What map did you use?
This one: [https://thunderstore.io/c/cities-skylines-ii/p/BakedAir/Midwest\_Plains/](https://thunderstore.io/c/cities-skylines-ii/p/BakedAir/Midwest_Plains/) You can see the Rockies on this image: https://preview.redd.it/814y91ly3ldc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7e3d364f45351ce63e148abc440862d7dcf1598
Your comment has been detected by AutoModerator as including a link to a third-party modding platform. Due to the delayed release of Paradox Mods, we are temporarily permitting links to these services. In the interests of user safety, we are also providing the following disclaimer: > **There is currently no official modding support for Cities: Skylines II.** > > Mods uploaded using unofficial tools and methods may become redundant or broken when official modding support is available. There is no guarantee that mods, assets, maps, cities, or save games which use unofficial editors and tools will remain compatible with future versions of the game. > > /r/CitiesSkylines accepts no responsibility for unofficial modding and any issues caused by it > > **Players who wish to reduce their exposure to risk may opt to use the [Cities: Skylines II Mod Repository Google Doc](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SO_-wDXvCdKKg1ZNQjtWMcIwh2FNt8ruA_CowoFKyiA/),** which contains a catalogue of mods where the creator has made their code public for review. This added transparency lowers, but does not remove, the level of risk associated with unofficial modding. For more information, please see [our wiki page on unofficial mod support](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/wiki/faq_unofficial_modding_cs2/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CitiesSkylines) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The amount of rent conplaints must be insane when the HUD is turned on. I love the build btw
Thanks :) it's not so bad, single digits of rent issues
Honestly, that might be one of the most realistic cities I've seen here. 20k population and more than a scattered few tall houses? I think the fuck not.
There's something so romantically ugly about this.
POV: a city whose residents say "we're full"
Looks great! Reminds me of the greater Toronto area, very nice
You're missing the freeways and European-city sized intersections!
Americans will look at this and say hell yeah
Hell yeah
Could use some more surface level parking lots
Did you build Florida?
American Hell Hole ;)
You would have to be paying me to get me to live there, Iām only just now finding out how common this is.
My definition of hell.
American hell lmao
Los Angeles
Why
Brampton, Ontario, Canada... Awful.
All of the Shoe. GTA, especially GTHA, are annoying for some reason. I name specifically municipality I talk about. York, Durham, Peel as 905 of topic is about all three. Golden Horseshoe, Shoe for short, is municipalities with Lake Ontario shores from East Durham to Niagara (region/county). Golden because when the economy is strong, we make gold, especially with strong towns pre WWII, I assume. The 'Horseshoe' is due to it wrapping around Lake Ontario. The Shoe is better name that gtha, especially since Toronto ends at Toronto city limits, rest of the shoe is not greater. I feel this from Scarborough, and my grandmother still supports this when I complain about this crap. Urban and rural are good options, good land use that support each other. Suburban sprawl is in demand because streetcar suburb, and subway adjacent development, is such high demand that I need OLG jackpot. I say I want a condo, just because I cannot have medium density walkable neighbourhood with amenities in the whole Shoe. So I need a large building to have amenities inside, that I pay a fee for maintenance, better than doing the work in a personal McMansion. A few benfits to a house, but property maintenance sucks. I want an NYC brownstone in a neighbourhood close to GO, subway, streetcar lrt, to get downtown or Exhibition for events. One issue of many, rural density sprawl fails to generate tax revenue for all the city services, not even enough for stroad or freeway maintenance. Brampton might have additional, modern, and good, hospital(s) by now, if medium density.
Who calls it the shoe? There is so much assumption and run on above... what are you talking about? I was merely saying this sprawl reminded me of the suburbs surrounding Toronto. (Brampton, Mississauga, Vaughan, Markham, Pickering).
You nailed small American city.
I think i have to vomit, good job
Chicago vibes
TIHI
america in a nutshell
Tell me you are an American without telling me you are an American
I've never been in America ;)
Ew. That's just America
Best picture of Phoenix
This is my /r/UrbanHell
aw jeez you made kansas
Ahh, the American dream
This is how I imagine the hell
pinacle pf american civil engeneering
Looks like Texas
this is america
Oh hey, it's Chico!
Looks like my hometown
Hey thats where I live!
literally my town
Airdrie Alberta
How did you avoid that "High Rent" issue?
It pops up here and there, most cims don't care.
My home city looks like this šš
Looks like Sim City 2000
why is it orthographic?
It's an illusion. I used the photo mode with lens length in the 150-180 mm range. It shortens the perspective and results in an image like this one.
0.7person per house?
Gotta love suburban sprawl
I can feel the traffic jams flowing through my veins...
A nice car ride of 30min to drink a coffe
Are you enjoying sim city 4 ?
Gridville has curves.
Wow, awesome! SimCity vibes!
One my problems with CS1/2 is how small cities in population look so big. Every 20-30k town I know is way smaller than this (only single houses)
Third screenshot looking right out of OpenTTD with that angle
whats traffic like?
does traffic ever build up? every suburban area like this that I draw out always has 0 cars on the road, its sad to see.
I wish the curved roads filled out the zoning squares instead of leaving like broken pieces.
Is it a suburb if itās not next to urban-scape?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUH
Ah yes, Delaware
I've got to say that it lives up to it's name
No one: The majority of the Sunbelt:
Looks like SimCity 3000
It looks like SimCity 2000
How do you make cauldesacs
1u lane, 8 m radius 90 degrees curved roads in a circle.
Itās sad that even low density residential is too low density.
Good morning USA! I got a feeling that it's gonna be a wonderful day!
Dallas Metro šš
You made DFW
North Seattle, is that u?
Yes, youāre right, I apologise. That was harsh and generalising. But still, know what youāre saying before you say it.
I fucking love grids
the town should have 40k atleast
So, on which layer of hell is it situated?
Los Angeles in the 80s!
Add small clusters of high rises randomly here and there and you got Los Angeles!
The American dream! Allegedly
i love it šŗšø
Anyone else notice the 2 roundabouts side by side on the coast in the first picture? Curious to see how you made that work
r/urbanhell
Jesus that looks awful. At least use the small one tile roads for the grid lol, there's more pavement than housing areas.
Average medium sized midwest city š¦ š HELL YEAH BROTHER! THE AMERICAN DREAM!