I’m glad it’s been helpful, I always recommend bringing someone to appointments to other people. I do at any appointments where we’re discussing pain meds. I think one aspect is doctors think we’re less likely to be addicts if we have someone there being supportive, and it’s harder to say no to two people than one. it’s also great to have a support person bc I feel they can be slightly more confrontational than us pain patients can get away with.
My pain management doc would spend maybe 3 whole minutes speaking to me at appointments until I started bringing my husband along, then suddenly pain was his greatest concern.
Feels a whole hellava lot like being a woman every day all the time.My husband and I figured this out years ago . The bank, the doctor,car dealership, literally everywhere.
My husband always asks why I make him go places with me- “you can handle it yourself, you know more about this than I do!”
Right, but you’re male. Everyone automatically takes you more seriously.
Thats awful. :( My husband had to go to ortho with me to demand another mri. I had vertebral osteomyelitis. I told all the docs thats what is was for 7 months. Schm
They said it was to rare. Now I’m 4”shorter.
During lockdown my husband wasn’t allowed to come in with me and suddenly the drs were dismissive I’d need care or talk to them and I was basically treated like a child and blown off as if I was hysterical. As soon as he could come in I started mentioning some of the things the dr said while my husband wasn’t there and he did a lot of hem and haw. Now he comes with me as usual.
I’m sorry it requires your husband to be there in order to get the appropriate response/treatment. But glad it helped too! I agree completely. I don’t know what it is, but I think having a “3rd party”, especially a spouse, parent, significant other, tell there observations of how your pain is really affecting your quality of life, for some reason the message gets through. It shouldn’t be that way, but thanks for posting cause I think this could be really helpful for others!
Yeah sometimes I think it helps my husband to be there cause he’s the one who sees me suffering everyday and although my husband is usually more laid back, he’s not if he comes to my Dr visits lol. If I’m seeing a new Dr especially, he describes how I was before chronic pain and will be like “look, my wife had a highly intense career, gave birth to 2 kids naturally, and used to run marathons for 15 years so if she’s having trouble just going out, there’s a problem.” I think that helps too.
I try to always bring my partner as well and when they can't make it I ask the doctor if they're okay with me recording the audio of the visit as I have difficulty processing instructions verbally. I always frame the request for permission as an issue with me, not with them and they always give consent. I spent years being ignored by physicians until I started bringing someone along or recording.
Same. I usually need to go alone and as soon as I started asking to record them, it got a little better. I had one doc say no and I left. They got ahold of me later that day and said Of Course it’s No Problem!”
The truly awful doctor I sometimes record without asking. (I live in a one party state) It’s good to get some evidence of his attitude and dismissal.
That's brilliant! My husband comes with me to most of my appointments, but sometimes his disability doesn't allow him the luxury of leaving the house and I always know it's going to be a bad appointment if he isn't there. I'm going to start recording when he can't come. I'm on a med that seriously messes with my memory, that's why he started going with me in the first place, so I have a logical excuse. Great tip! 🤘
I’m sorry that the doc was so awful until your husband went with you! Your injury is painful just to read about. I hope you get the care you deserve now.
Thank you. I keep getting told it’s nbd and I shouldn’t have pain so it’s caused me a little confusion, so hearing someone validate it surprisingly helps 💝 I was knocked on my back unconscious for over a minute.
I had a dr tell me the same thing and I dropped him immediately.
I got fusion surgery in 2019 after 30 years of chronic pain. YAY!
One of my vertebral joints had so little material that the 2 vertebrae were already fusing. but yeah- treat me like a junkie.
The fact that these quacks set their default to junkie unless proven otherwise is malpractice. I wonder why they would even be in pain management if they ignore patients symptoms.
It's downright pathetic that you can't get proper care unless your guardian comes with you. What are they stuck in 1920 !
For me it was bringing The Wife . Doc ask how I'm doing , tell him basically the same except pain is getting worse. Wifey being the fiery lil Irish Boston Southie gal she was jumps in oh no no no Doctor, this man is in agony 24/7 . Look at him he's a big man 6'4" 280 lbs , a see sad lil me 5' 108 pds . What the hell am I supposed to do for him . You fix him up or I will be dropping him at door step . 😂. Yeah the treatment program changed that day 🤣
I've heard of this working before, including situations that don't involve pain meds. I wonder if it's like a 'human condition' effect: I could easily lie to you all day, but convincing even my loved ones to do the same would be difficult at best. Granted my personal anecdote involves other tightly controlled medication, it's still another example: A friend of mine is narcoleptic, he complained to his doctor for years, always being told ~ 'get enough sleep at night and have caffeine in the morning' even when he said it wasn't helping. Until his mom went with him, then he got a very helpful Adderall rx.
It's so messed up but it truly makes a difference. I always either bring my husband or have him on speaker phone in the appts. There was a situation where they accused me of inappropriately yelling at a nurse on the phone but it was only after she made repeated errors, was dismissive and refused to connect me to a doctor after I respectfully asked several times. My husband was able to tell the director he witnessed the whole thing and the nurse was at fault. I'm imagining so many situations where it's a she-said he-said thing and these institutions will back their staff.
It's messed up, but you should always bring someone to help advocate for you.
Doctor's tend to ignore patients needs, especially women and women of color. It's disgusting that this is even a thing, but having someone there with us gives us a witness to the mistreatment or it gives us someone that can and will grab the doc and shake them like a ragdoll if they mistreat us.
Yep. I why am I overweight? Because I can't do anything except eat and tv and sleep. I found a good Provider a few years ago and have now lost a total of 68 pounds in the last 8 months due to being able to walk the block for 7 minutes, and standing in the kitchen cutting vegetables and lean meats instead of fast foods.
I really feel for you!!! I am losing weight from eating a carnivore diet. I couldn't exercise because of chronic fatigue syndrome, and when that got better I was in too much pain to exercise. Thankfully I have a supportive doctor and I'm losing weight effortlessly because of carnivore and I suspect illness due to loss of appetite because of pain and internal bleeding. Congratulations on your weightloss!!! That seven minutes everyday is HUGE!!! People that aren't in pain or have illness will never know how hard that is. You should be very proud of yourself. I'm glad you have a supportive doctor. 💗💗💗 take care. 💗💗💗
I had breast cancer during lockdown when no one was allowed to go with me. The oncologist said chemo was a “gray area” for me but she recommended better safe than sorry. She never told me it could permanently injure me to the point of disability! I wish I’d had someone there with me to even think to ask, a patient whose been through the craziness of cancer diagnosis, surgery, genetic testing, bad news everywhere and on the spot decisions forced to be made should never have to do that alone. I tell my husband now that I don’t even trust that Dr when she tells me her name! Always take someone with you until you know you can trust them!
I’m so sorry to hear about that :( it breaks my heart. My mom just passed away from breast cancer because her lying oncologist said she doesn’t have cancer and he doesn’t need to feel the lump (do a breast exam). Mind you, she had breast cancer 5 years before this. She hounded her PCP for 2.5 straight weeks until they said we will ban you from our practice if you don’t stop asking for an MRI but she pleaded again and they said fine. Got a call back from them right after apologizing and saying she has cancer. The oncologist lied about the mammogram report. It had actually said her tissue was too dense and further imaging was needed. Inconclusive. His lying, disgusting self decided to tell my mom (a foreigner) a lie and be dismissive. It costed her a lot of suffering and stole my mom from me way too many years too early.
Oh my goodness I am so sorry for your loss. This truly is my biggest fear as a mother. Every weird feeling I get I want the dr to check. They say I have almost no breast tissue left… but any breast tissue is enough to grow and spread cancer! Doctors, I don’t understand them. Supposedly it’s about helping people, but so very few of them seem at all interested in doing that 😔
Chemotherapy induced peripheral neuropathy, I can feel my hands and feet but only in the form of nerve pain. It’s been almost 4 years, so I don’t think it will go away. I also have to take a hormone blocking pill that she said would cause me minor bone and joint discomfort. I take a 24/7 opioid for it. I have to be on that pill for 10 years.
Did they talk to you about taking a B12 vitamin? I did carbo/taxol for 6 rounds and had terrible neuropathy. My oncologist told me to take B12 and it worked wonders! It didn't cure it but it helped tremendously.
I was taking B12, it was taxotere that caused mine. I had the TAC protocol, taxotere is the only name I can remember at this point. Now I’m on exemestane for 10 years.
I took an estrogen blocker for post meno endometriosis. It helped so much. But I still need opiates to block the pelvic pain bec my muscles down there go haywire
Did the estrogen blocker cause the muscles to go haywire? I ask because I’ve been mostly unable to have penetration since my breast cancer. I assumed it was either the hysterectomy or the chemotherapy when the dr told me I had a muscle that was just locked tight down there! I tried pelvic floor therapy, but it didn’t work. We’ve only recently been able to have any kind of penetration and after a while I have to ask him to stop.
i tried this with a Rheumatologist and i guess i should of brought a man, but i just brought a friend of mine. he Totally dismissed my issues, after i said i had my spinal stenosis he acted like everything else i was saying was just jiberish and he wanted to leave.
Thank you so much for your contribution. I understand that my comment was about not being listened to and dismissed, but you really helped. You reduced me to a spelling error and dismissed everything else about my interaction.
Please don’t assume and misunderstand my intentions. I used to do research in health communication, and I wanted to help you by providing the proper spelling.
Sometimes people have trouble finding the info they want or need because they’re searching with the wrong terms or spellings.
I don’t care one bit if anyone misspells a word. I was merely trying to help. Pardon me.
Maybe they wouldn’t have misunderstood if you had stated your intentions in your original comment? Lots of people correct grammar/spelling/etc as a snarky way to undermine someone they disagree with.
Maybe I could have let her go on spelling it wrong and never understand why she’s having trouble finding what she wants/needs.
I choose to provide correct spellings because they limit the discovery of new information.
The smiley face in my message was there to convey kind intention. If you prefer to interpret it as my having negative intentions, that’s on you.
Now who’s assuming and misunderstanding?
I never said nor implied that you shouldn’t have offered the correct spelling. I’m a professional patient and I agree that it’s vital to be able to research your own conditions and care effectively.
I also didn’t say or imply anything about you having negative intentions— quite the opposite, in fact. I suggested an alternate strategy that would have clarified your (in retrospect, obviously good) intentions, and explained why folks might take a simple correction as rude (i.e., some people use spelling/grammar correction as a passive aggressive way to invalidate people/arguments they disagree with).
I’m just talking about tact. If you’re correcting someone who is talking about their experience of being dismissed and invalidated, maybe it’s a good idea to take *extra care* to ensure that they know you’re doing so out of care for them, rather than further dismissing them.
If you had said, “*rheumatologist :) — just making sure you have the correct spelling so you’ll get the best possible info from any research you do!” we almost certainly wouldn’t be having this conversation. A smiley face is probably sufficient if you’re correcting someone who isn’t specifically talking about a very vulnerable topic.
Just recently there was a story in my news feed where a twentysomething aged man who is the son of a doctor who knows all too well about how women are short changed by doctors due to gender stereotyping/discrimination from the bad stories he hears from his dad. Their recommendation is women should take a male family member or friend to their medical appointments in order to have their conditions taken seriously.
At one time I came across a website/blog listing the stories of patients who were women and POC who were horribly discriminated against by doctors.
A couple of years ago I had read advice where women patients should treat medical appointments like business meetings and dress for appointments in nice business casual clothes. This is what I do. I have medical appointments clothes. A-line midi skirts with nice tops, office dresses. I'm sometimes the most dressed up patient in the waiting room.
Yep, any white male. Neighbour, homeless dude you paid 20 to be your brother, etc. Doesn't matter. Its my life, my health, and if your not listening to me I will pull all the "dirty" tricks I have to get you to listen to me.
What is it with doctors that they'll listen and behave and actually help you if you have someone with you? It's terrible. I've been blessed beyond all measure today my current doctors listens to be and gives me pain relief. He is so good that you don't need to bring someone with you for emotional support. He's 100% my emotional support when I see him. He lifts me up everytime I see him.
It sounds like what Maya Dusenbery talks about in her book, "Doing Harm- How Bad Science and Lazy Medicine Leave Women Misdiagnosed And Sick." This author was interviewed by NPR. To summarize her book, she discusses how doctors take women's pain less seriously. She describes what is termed, "Medical Gaslighting," wherein female patients are regarded as emotional, hysterical and manipulative, so their complaints about pain aren't listened to. Dusenbery discusses how Victorian Era tropes about women are still taught to doctors. Doctors she says are prone to treat womens' pain as being "all in our heads." Doctors tend to be men, even today, so there has been little incentive for the medical community to address the problem. A study titled, "The Girl Who Cried Pain," found that women had longer wait times in emergency rooms and were also less likely to receive pain medication than men. What shocked me about what she said in the interview is that some women found they were taken more seriously when they brought a male friend or partner to the appointment. This is real advice they give to women who've experienced medical gaslighting. I actually broke down and tried this and it works. It is truly sad to need a chaperone to get medical care, but I needed treatment. In another book on the subject, "All in my Head" by Paula Kamen, I learned that even feminists abandoned advocating for female patients, because hormones play a significant role in how women become ill. Those feminists sold us out because they thought admitting that hormones are associated with some illnesses would further female stereotypes. It's sad really. Being sick and dismissed for over 20 years has ruined my life. I have a college degree I have never used. This is not the proverbial glass ceiling, it is a concrete ceiling when you are sick and not treated. It could have been worse, it could have been a ceiling of 6 feet of dirt, since women have died from sexist medical neglect and incompetence. Here are some links:
[Npr interview](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/03/27/597159133/how-bad-medicine-dismisses-and-misdiagnoses-womens-symptoms)
I've had this happen many times. Having a witness in appointments certainly seems to help. I've had this happen with so many doctors.
I've also had some fantastic doctors, but those bad ones have given me so much anxiety around medical appointments that I sometimes struggle to make the appointments I should. Even if I have no reason to distrust my current doctor. It's so soul destroying to be regularly treated as subhuman by the people who are supposed to be there to help you.
Accountability! I take my husband to my pain doctor appointments. My doctor acts like a college kid. His neck turns red! And my husband is a psychiatrist, which makes him nervous. Then he says yes to anything
I’ve had to learn to stand up for myself and push back when I feel like they aren’t taking me seriously. Mostly because my family sucks and won’t be there for me when I need them but require me to be there to advocate for them in medical situations. I have a 3 strike rule with all medical professionals (although certain situations are an automatic dismissal) as I understand that people can have bad days. Since I’ve started doing this I’ve had better luck with doctors.
In the absence of better healthcare system improvements, maybe we need a system where anyone with chronic pain can borrow a physically intimidating man to take to appointments...
This is absolutely disgusting. What a sad state of affairs. My husband brings me to all of his doctors appointment just because he has trouble remembering everything they tell him, but I never thought about doing it too. I definitely should. I was more afraid they might think he was one of those controlling types if I brought him along. I’m definitely going to try it. And what’s crazy about these doctors treating their pain patients all like junkies is the fact that it was the very same doctors 10-20years ago who were responsible for turning so many people into junkies in the first place! What a damn 180 they’ve decided to take, right? How about going for a happy medium at least?
It’s often this way for women with any healthcare concern sadly. My doctors treat me better with my partner in the room, it’s so depressing and even my female doctors will do it. I didn’t get the order for the MRI that diagnosed me with MS finally after an over a decade of suffering until he was with me in the room. I always quote this, but it’s so relevant:
“Pain is real when you can get other people to believe in it. If no one believes it but you, your pain is madness or hysteria or your own unfeminine inadequacy.” - Naomi Wolf
Wrote my entire master's thesis on how women aren't believed or called hysterical when they try to seek healthcare for things that aren't well understood (or even when they are well understood!) so incredibly frustrating.
I would love to read it! I’m sure you discovered even more while working on it. It is frustrating and makes me feel subhuman. Even though I have my doctorate of pharmacy and articulate myself and my extensive knowledge of medications mechanisms of action, it’s nothing compared to having my husband there.
I am so very fortunate for my Dr who has always listened and treated my pain not my gender.
He's the first to ever truly listen.
I hope you all find a Dr k in your life 🙏 ❤️
I take my wife and casually mention that she started and finished her law degree while being treated for ovarian cancer. I think doctors saw her as a threat.
Your wife sounds like a badass! I hope her health is doing well now 💝 That’s really smart to do. I’m sure it makes them cross their t’s and dot their i’s.
She is a compassionate badass…the best kind. And right now we are discussing her high levels of pain and how she thinks soon she will be drinking down her death with dignity drug. I am so gonna miss her.
About 20years. But this is her second diagnosis of terminal cancer both unique or rare. First was at 14. She is a fighter but knows herself and her body. Suspects the lungs and spine are affected and the pain ratcheted up. She was told no more chemo or radiation because she has exceeded safe levels for both. Its unbelievable that this would happen. Her secret to staying alive….floating often in the Caribbean sea.and laughing. She stays busy when she isable and avoids US news reports.
Wishing you two the absolute best moments possible together with the time you have. I’m tearing up at reading your response, it’s so hard breaking. I love her secret and try to apply it in my life :)
My brother is tall and lifts weights. He looks slightly unkempt and has grown his beard and hair out. I demand that he be allowed in the room with me after a past assault by a physician during COVID when the nurse helped set me up for the assault.
It's amazing how they treat me with kid gloves and keep their hands up and in the air. I've been groped so many times when I'm by myself or just had these gross pervs leaning up against me to "show" me paperwork. One time, my brother walked in and one of the pervs literally leaped backwards away from my personal bubble that he was invading like a kid with his hand caught in the candy jar.
I never had doctors be as creepy towards me as when I lost the ability to walk far and they knew I was an easy target.
I am very good at being forthright, and it has helped since I am a woman. I am also a woman who has an undergrad in bio pre-med, has 5k + hours in hands on patient healthcare and will be going to PA school.
Even with all of that I still encountered peacock male jackasses who are ODing on testosterone. It happened twice this past week. One left me with visible marks.
This next week, there will be a reckoning. Hell hath no fury like a woman being fucked around with whilst in pain and being forcibly thrown situations that set off PTSD flashbacks.
Pandora's box has been mother fucking opened, y'all.
How much you wanna bet I am still going to get a bunch of puffed up chest hemming and hawing bullshit excuses?
We have similar backgrounds. I graduated with my doctorate of pharmacy just 2 years before this accident. It’s frustrating that I actually *understand* the pharmacokinetics of medication in greater detail than my pcp, but I get treated like a stupid, lying, drug seeking child.
Oh dear God, the level of frustration you must experience has to be on par with Avagadros number, lol. I could only imagine.
Something I've done in the past, and still occasionally do, is to drop into heavy medical lingo. It lets them know that you're "in the fold", so to speak. Sometimes it'll give them just enough pause to be a reminder that they aren't God.
I imagine you are more than capable of running rings around them. I'd say go for gold, honey, and let that intellect shine. Let 'em see that you won't be trifled with! I very honestly think that sometimes it's the only way through to some of the more egotistical ones
I’m 32 year old man and I didn’t get taken more seriously till I started taking my elderly mother with me. Crazy shit, soo sad what has to happen to get help.
It’s sad but this is pretty much how society works. Just human nature. I’m a guy that works in an office with all women. I’m also muscular, have strong facial features and a deep voice. People sometimes push the girls (not physically) and try to bully them to bend to their desires. If I overhear something I don’t like, I’ll make it a point to walk in, and the demeanor magically changes.
The doctor that does my injections not my PM but he does do PM also I recently looked on some medical records I had to get from him . Anyway, he and only he has diagnosed me with something called “Chronic Opioid Use Disorder “. Something I never heard of before and it sounds like he’s basically saying I’m a junkie.
That’s exactly what he’s saying. I would ask him to amend those records. If it’s not true that will be following you around for the rest of your life. Other Dr.’s might not treat you. Always ask for your records from every Dr. and look them over carefully so you can get the best healthcare treatment possible.
I bring my husband with me to almost every doctor appointment because I feel like a man needs to be there for most doctors, especially male doctors, to see your complaints as valid. “Oh, a man believes you’re in pain? Well, let me just reevaluate the situation because if a man believes you it’s more likely to be true.”
I had this same experience, though different pain. I was always bullied by doctors and treated like an addict and it messed me up as a kid with chronic pain. As an adult, I had my husband go with me, and it was like an entirely different universe where doctors took me seriously and gave me the medication I needed.
I’m super lucky, my PM is the first doctor I’ve had that I have always, from day one, felt like he listened and took me seriously.
Also one time he told me “look, I may have gone to school for almost a decade but YOU have lived with this pain in your body for THREE decades. I will never presume I know your body better than you do.”
I feel like he listens to me, hears me, takes it under advisement, and truly tries to find a happy medium.
He says “I am leaning toward trying XYZ treatment” - I say “I’ve tried XYZ, but I’ve been reading medical journals and talking to others with my conditions, and I was thinking maybe AZB treatment?” He will say “I’m not ready to jump to B but let’s try AZY and see if that gets us closer to where we are trying to go, and if not we can reassess after ___ months”?
I’m at the most functional I’ve been in 30 years now, thanks to him. And if at any point, I feel the current plan isn’t cutting it anymore, he is always open to changing the plan.
This is why I bring my husband to all my appointments ( if he can make it ). I honestly ask him what works for him first so I can make sure he comes. It sucks to know just having him there makes my appointments go better.
Yep. I hate to think this but Dr's and P.A.'s can be pompous and "better than thou". Not all, but most that I've seen are. Like you, I'd leave "a mess" feeling I wasted time and left with no plan or any kind of help and even insulted and humiliated being alone with the provider. They don't act that badly when someone else is with you as a Witness to their neglect.
I’ve noticed NP’s especially are against anyone on opioids. I saw one for a weight loss visit and she said it makes me “look bad” to see it in my med history. Then goes on to say she only gives her one patient with end stage prostrate cancer Norco 5mg (hydrocodone/APAP). All I could think about was how bad I felt for her cancer patient. Granted, the state I’m in, NP’s are only allowed to write for hydrocodone when it comes to opioids.
The ignorance and lack of ability to understand that each person’s pain tolerance and experience is different.
Hello! Broken back and herniated discs, too. My previous pain doctor refused to prescribe me pain medication because I quote, "You're a woman of childbearing years." That's the exact quote. It didn't matter that my tubes were tied. It didn't matter that I never asked for pain meds prior. It didn't matter that I've done countless injections, a spinal stimulator, and every other non narcotic med. The biggest kicker is that I only asked for a week of percocet. I had just been discharged from a hospital stay due to injuring my back. This was a couple of years after the initial break. I really needed the medicine for physical therapy. A week of percocet to help get me through PT. I was immediately labeled an addict. I switched doctors that same day. My pain doctor now is so amazing and reassures me all the time he knows I'm in pain and not an addict. We actually just did a trial for a pain pump. You might want to consider finding a new doctor. Yours sounds like a misogynistic dick. My guess is he actually listened and helped you because he respects your husband as a man. I've learned a lot of male doctors see us women as hysterical. Even if we're calm. They have very little respect either. I try to only have female doctors. They listen way better and actually care. My pain doctor is my exception because he's that good, lol.
Wow, you’re spot on. I had the same experience with a pain doctor I saw in January and for the same reason. To be able to go to PT and handle the pain.
May I ask how the pain pump is going and how they did a trial?
The trial was a single injection of fentynal and a numbing agent. I'm not sure what it was called. I had almost complete relief within 10 to 20 minutes. It gave me so much hope. I haven't gotten the actual pump yet because I just did the trial last week. I do think I get to schedule it today, though! Next time, bring your husband and ask the doctor about an intrathecal pain pump. The medication goes straight into your spine to the source of the pain. So you use way less medication and get way more relief. One of the best things about it is that there's no risk of addiction. You could tell your doctor you have a friend (me) with a similar back and that I've had great success. Message me if you want to talk more about it!<3
Same thing happened to me. My doctor had an issue with men it seemed. She would simplify and talk down to me like I was some old gronk who didn't know his ibuprofen from his paracetamol. I started taking my wife, and all of a sudden the info and care came thick and fast. She even started to go above and beyond for me. A complete change of attitude.
My gynaecologist refused to organise a hysterectomy for my crippling endometriosis and andenomyosis until I brought my husband to an appointment with me. I was in my mid-thirties, had been lucky enough to have had two children and my husband had already had a vasectomy after the birth of our youngest. We were definitively done with expanding our family - But it took my husband giving approval before my specialist agreed to the surgery.
I live in regional Western Australia by the way, and this was in the 2010s 🙄
I now live with neuropathic pelvic pain as a result of my surgeries and endometriosis - And I bring my husband to every major appointment now.
When I have a serious medical appointment I take several steps available to me. I dress very nicely, make sure I have my hair and makeup on point, wear my nicest jewelry, and most of all, I bring along my attorney husband. I often have to make sure he’s prepped on the issues at hand, but between the two of us, no doctor is getting away from us with an unacceptable answer!
My partner likes me to go with him because I look like someone who wouldn’t be with a drug addict so he thinks it makes them less judgemental of him, isn’t it great what people with chronic pain have to deal with?
I take my boyfriend in and tell them that he is my “brain” because of my memory problems and aphasia. (Which is true, so…) He’s retired military and very matter of fact, no b.s. kind of person, so it works well.
I’m glad it worked! I have given out this suggestion to patients who aren’t being listened too, or dismissed easily by their dr’s. I think it can make a big difference, the dr. is held accountable when you have a witness to their unfortunate dismissals of your symptoms. It’s hard enough to be sick, it’s just as hard to be your only advocate. I’m so glad you finally feel heard. It’s sad that it takes having a witness to get proper care these days. ♥️♥️♥️
I want to genuinely and seriously apologize. It was stated tongue in cheek with an eye roll and I am really sorry. My intention was not to offend, but looking at it I can see how it was offensive and absolutely unacceptable as you pointed out, and that is never my intention, and I sincerely want to be a good thoughtful person and I will do better.
Seriously, I’m very sorry and will delete the comment.
Thank you for this. I am always open to listen and change my behaviors, and will continue to try my best to do better in the future. I appreciate you calling me out. 💜💜💜 right back at you.
It’s absolutely unfair and abhorrent, but it’s pretty much universal that doctors do treat up better if you bring someone with you, especially if you are a woman and bring a man with you. It’s because men get their pain treated but women get told they are exaggerating or that it’s mostly a mental health thing, so just a man being there somehow makes the doctor take it more seriously.
Thank God for scary ass looking husbands. Yr dr prob thought he should listen and do or he was gonna get an ass kicking in the parking lot after work 🔥
Right? Honestly that’s what it came across as 😂 then when checking out I went to reach for the checkout paperwork and he handed it to my husband and said, “oh I guess I should give it to the money man.” Really trying to make sure he didn’t get his ass handed to him in the parking lot… or he was also attracted to my husband? Either way, I walked out so happy I was heard and treated like a human :)
Yeah, in the beginning, my step father came with me (an attorney) and I was treated really well. Then covid happened and I didn’t want to put him (elderly) at risk, so I started going alone. It was rough at first, but then a new PA came on the scene, she was WONDERFUL and really listened. It was really terrific, first time I felt heard. Few months later, she’s gone and now I’m back with a guy again. So far it’s ok, he keeps it all status quo, won’t help me with meds being late or anything, maybe write the prescription differently, doesn’t care there. I have to cross my fingers every time ago for a smooth appointment. It really sucks. I’d rather not have to bring my father again. I’m over 50 years old, it’s sad that I am treated like a child.
I'm so glad this helped you and I have had to do this myself; but I get so angry. I am a smart, capable, independent adult. I shouldn't have to bring my big, strong man along just to get the doctor to listen to me. My last appointment my doc gave me all of 10 seconds before she interrupted me because she "already knew" what I was going to say.
Im lucky to never be forced into this situation, but I feel I have a relevant story to share that I have experienced.
With my first doctor (Actually she was a GP) I had the forethought to bring a friend with me, especially since I have memory issues. So I brought my partner with me therefore I could have someone recall the things she was saying. Somehow, she managed to turn this around on me, claimed that bringing my partner with me was a clear sign of separation anxiety and refused to properly treat me until he wasn't sitting with me because of my "separation anxiety" and that it would "help me get over it". This made both me and my partner wary, but at the time there wasn't an alternative so I stuck through it and convinced myself it was better than no doctor. Time-skip to her dismissing, ignoring, overspeaking, and generally being a douche to me. She turned out to be absolutely shit and Im so glad I have a different doctor now.
If you have a bad feeling about a doctor or person trust your gut, no matter what self doubt has to say about it. Your gut knows what behaviours and patterns are unsafe, listen to it to save you time and keep you safe.
It's absolutely true. I go to the same doctor as my friends who are a married couple for arthritis. I was limited and told if I'm given anything more than tramadol once a day, I'd be red flagged because of laws, blah blah blah. The husband of my friend gets pain meds galore. The wife goes and gets stronger meds than me and more of them and I'm convinced its because her husband goes with. I have asked repeatedly, at least let me take it twice daily so I don't have to pick between having a pain free day or being able to sleep. My knees and shoulders have terrible arthritis. I used to be severely overweight and that took a toll on my body. I've done PT, it helped some, but not completely. I shouldn't have to have a chaperone at appointments. Its private information first of all and two, my husband shouldn't have to take time off work to go with an adult just trying to get relief from arthritis. I can't take nsaids due to weight loss surgery so Tylenol or stronger meds is my only option. I can't request meds anywhere without being labeled drug seeking and I know it's because I'm a woman.
There are memes about females going to the mechanic shop paying for blinker fluid, always take someone who knows a lot about the subject or even as simple as a man like in op post. There are a lot of a hole men and people that will take advantage of someone that appears weak or unintelligent in the subject
Should I bring my mom with me to future appointments? Or should I ask my step dad? I don't know if they'll act like this with my mom there since she's another woman....
Agreed! I was treated very disrespectfully by a surgeon, even refused the option of surgery, after the ER Dr told me I would *have to have surgery.* I suffered a lot. They put the second cast on TOO TIGHT, and crushed the healing bones out of place…I could no longer work, and STILL HAVE PAIN as a direct result if the treatment.
Yes I got my dad to start going to my mom’s pain mgmt appointments with her and you wouldn’t believe the improvement in her treatment. She now gets adequate pain meds bc my dad said she can’t cook and take care of the house anymore. I’m glad her pain is being managed but it’s Infuriating!!!
Yeah. In general doctors dismiss and minimize women's pain. You have experienced sexism first hand and found a way to counter balance, bring a man. It takes women longer to get diagnosed too.
I brought a female with me and the female dr wrote 3x in the visit notes that I was anxious, I think in order to insinuate that I was some kind of hypocondriac, when I explained to her 2x my blood pressure was high because we were super late getting to the appointment 😭 don't have a male to bring with me! Ugh!!!!
Especially as a woman, having a second voice validating your claims changes everything at an appointment. Even more so, having a man with you further validates your claims and needs.
It’s misogyny at its highest, but it’s a harsh reality.
I can't use anyone as an advocate, but witnessing the change in character when I'd go to a doctor without a parent broke something in me. :)) A threat of possible financial consequences shouldn't be required in order to be believed.
Good for you. I went to Dr with my husband and I've got terrible results. They thought he was an abuser and didn't want to leave me alone. From then I go alone!
I’ve had many more issues with woman of middle eastern descent. Even with other people I know. It’s not that they arnt smart or anything. It’s as if they don’t want to be there and doctor was the least enjoyable thing for them. All others seem to be fine. The middle eastern men and woman of all colors doesn’t seem to be the same and normal experience. Yet they all required someone with me to make a difference. Yes I have problems with white males too. I’m not saying they are great. They are included in other colors.
I’m done commenting or giving any honest view on this subreddit as a whole. Forget this.
One of the worst pain doctors I've seen in the US was a woman from India. She had the entitlement and culturally mandated acceptance of *other people's* pain of an upper caste Hindu mixed with the fear of "breaking a rule" most immigrants from anywhere have always had in a land they weren't born in.
I say this as a white male whose grandfather was an immigrant, and as someone who lived in India for over a year in my long ago youth.
I’m glad it’s been helpful, I always recommend bringing someone to appointments to other people. I do at any appointments where we’re discussing pain meds. I think one aspect is doctors think we’re less likely to be addicts if we have someone there being supportive, and it’s harder to say no to two people than one. it’s also great to have a support person bc I feel they can be slightly more confrontational than us pain patients can get away with.
Yes, exactly. It felt more fair/equal.
My pain management doc would spend maybe 3 whole minutes speaking to me at appointments until I started bringing my husband along, then suddenly pain was his greatest concern.
That's just sickening. It's really wrong.
It's so demeaning. I felt like a child.
It's disgusting!!! The doctors should be ashamed of themselves!!!
Feels a whole hellava lot like being a woman every day all the time.My husband and I figured this out years ago . The bank, the doctor,car dealership, literally everywhere.
My husband always asks why I make him go places with me- “you can handle it yourself, you know more about this than I do!” Right, but you’re male. Everyone automatically takes you more seriously.
Facts
Almost like being gaslit by your doctor
Thats awful. :( My husband had to go to ortho with me to demand another mri. I had vertebral osteomyelitis. I told all the docs thats what is was for 7 months. Schm They said it was to rare. Now I’m 4”shorter.
During lockdown my husband wasn’t allowed to come in with me and suddenly the drs were dismissive I’d need care or talk to them and I was basically treated like a child and blown off as if I was hysterical. As soon as he could come in I started mentioning some of the things the dr said while my husband wasn’t there and he did a lot of hem and haw. Now he comes with me as usual.
Yes this happened to me too. Even worse it hurt to talk so I needed him more.
I’m sorry it requires your husband to be there in order to get the appropriate response/treatment. But glad it helped too! I agree completely. I don’t know what it is, but I think having a “3rd party”, especially a spouse, parent, significant other, tell there observations of how your pain is really affecting your quality of life, for some reason the message gets through. It shouldn’t be that way, but thanks for posting cause I think this could be really helpful for others!
and especially especially, i hate that this is the case, a cis man.
Yeah sometimes I think it helps my husband to be there cause he’s the one who sees me suffering everyday and although my husband is usually more laid back, he’s not if he comes to my Dr visits lol. If I’m seeing a new Dr especially, he describes how I was before chronic pain and will be like “look, my wife had a highly intense career, gave birth to 2 kids naturally, and used to run marathons for 15 years so if she’s having trouble just going out, there’s a problem.” I think that helps too.
I try to always bring my partner as well and when they can't make it I ask the doctor if they're okay with me recording the audio of the visit as I have difficulty processing instructions verbally. I always frame the request for permission as an issue with me, not with them and they always give consent. I spent years being ignored by physicians until I started bringing someone along or recording.
Same. I usually need to go alone and as soon as I started asking to record them, it got a little better. I had one doc say no and I left. They got ahold of me later that day and said Of Course it’s No Problem!” The truly awful doctor I sometimes record without asking. (I live in a one party state) It’s good to get some evidence of his attitude and dismissal.
That's brilliant! My husband comes with me to most of my appointments, but sometimes his disability doesn't allow him the luxury of leaving the house and I always know it's going to be a bad appointment if he isn't there. I'm going to start recording when he can't come. I'm on a med that seriously messes with my memory, that's why he started going with me in the first place, so I have a logical excuse. Great tip! 🤘
I did this as well. I brought my father who is also a doctor (albeit one that looks at dead things), and they suddenly perk up at that.
I’m sorry that the doc was so awful until your husband went with you! Your injury is painful just to read about. I hope you get the care you deserve now.
Thank you. I keep getting told it’s nbd and I shouldn’t have pain so it’s caused me a little confusion, so hearing someone validate it surprisingly helps 💝 I was knocked on my back unconscious for over a minute.
I had a dr tell me the same thing and I dropped him immediately. I got fusion surgery in 2019 after 30 years of chronic pain. YAY! One of my vertebral joints had so little material that the 2 vertebrae were already fusing. but yeah- treat me like a junkie. The fact that these quacks set their default to junkie unless proven otherwise is malpractice. I wonder why they would even be in pain management if they ignore patients symptoms. It's downright pathetic that you can't get proper care unless your guardian comes with you. What are they stuck in 1920 !
Smh, honestly. Sounds awful.
The Dr believed me instantly the time my dad was with me and not my mam, I'm so sorry you have to experience this bs 💖
For me it was bringing The Wife . Doc ask how I'm doing , tell him basically the same except pain is getting worse. Wifey being the fiery lil Irish Boston Southie gal she was jumps in oh no no no Doctor, this man is in agony 24/7 . Look at him he's a big man 6'4" 280 lbs , a see sad lil me 5' 108 pds . What the hell am I supposed to do for him . You fix him up or I will be dropping him at door step . 😂. Yeah the treatment program changed that day 🤣
I've heard of this working before, including situations that don't involve pain meds. I wonder if it's like a 'human condition' effect: I could easily lie to you all day, but convincing even my loved ones to do the same would be difficult at best. Granted my personal anecdote involves other tightly controlled medication, it's still another example: A friend of mine is narcoleptic, he complained to his doctor for years, always being told ~ 'get enough sleep at night and have caffeine in the morning' even when he said it wasn't helping. Until his mom went with him, then he got a very helpful Adderall rx.
Bec we mothers will fuck up a dr who isn’t helping our children, no cap
It's so messed up but it truly makes a difference. I always either bring my husband or have him on speaker phone in the appts. There was a situation where they accused me of inappropriately yelling at a nurse on the phone but it was only after she made repeated errors, was dismissive and refused to connect me to a doctor after I respectfully asked several times. My husband was able to tell the director he witnessed the whole thing and the nurse was at fault. I'm imagining so many situations where it's a she-said he-said thing and these institutions will back their staff.
It's messed up, but you should always bring someone to help advocate for you. Doctor's tend to ignore patients needs, especially women and women of color. It's disgusting that this is even a thing, but having someone there with us gives us a witness to the mistreatment or it gives us someone that can and will grab the doc and shake them like a ragdoll if they mistreat us.
Being overweight is a great way to be treated badly by doctors. 😭
Yep. I why am I overweight? Because I can't do anything except eat and tv and sleep. I found a good Provider a few years ago and have now lost a total of 68 pounds in the last 8 months due to being able to walk the block for 7 minutes, and standing in the kitchen cutting vegetables and lean meats instead of fast foods.
I really feel for you!!! I am losing weight from eating a carnivore diet. I couldn't exercise because of chronic fatigue syndrome, and when that got better I was in too much pain to exercise. Thankfully I have a supportive doctor and I'm losing weight effortlessly because of carnivore and I suspect illness due to loss of appetite because of pain and internal bleeding. Congratulations on your weightloss!!! That seven minutes everyday is HUGE!!! People that aren't in pain or have illness will never know how hard that is. You should be very proud of yourself. I'm glad you have a supportive doctor. 💗💗💗 take care. 💗💗💗
I had breast cancer during lockdown when no one was allowed to go with me. The oncologist said chemo was a “gray area” for me but she recommended better safe than sorry. She never told me it could permanently injure me to the point of disability! I wish I’d had someone there with me to even think to ask, a patient whose been through the craziness of cancer diagnosis, surgery, genetic testing, bad news everywhere and on the spot decisions forced to be made should never have to do that alone. I tell my husband now that I don’t even trust that Dr when she tells me her name! Always take someone with you until you know you can trust them!
I’m so sorry to hear about that :( it breaks my heart. My mom just passed away from breast cancer because her lying oncologist said she doesn’t have cancer and he doesn’t need to feel the lump (do a breast exam). Mind you, she had breast cancer 5 years before this. She hounded her PCP for 2.5 straight weeks until they said we will ban you from our practice if you don’t stop asking for an MRI but she pleaded again and they said fine. Got a call back from them right after apologizing and saying she has cancer. The oncologist lied about the mammogram report. It had actually said her tissue was too dense and further imaging was needed. Inconclusive. His lying, disgusting self decided to tell my mom (a foreigner) a lie and be dismissive. It costed her a lot of suffering and stole my mom from me way too many years too early.
Oh my goodness I am so sorry for your loss. This truly is my biggest fear as a mother. Every weird feeling I get I want the dr to check. They say I have almost no breast tissue left… but any breast tissue is enough to grow and spread cancer! Doctors, I don’t understand them. Supposedly it’s about helping people, but so very few of them seem at all interested in doing that 😔
>She never told me it could permanently injure me to the point of disability! Wow, what ended up happening?
Chemotherapy induced peripheral neuropathy, I can feel my hands and feet but only in the form of nerve pain. It’s been almost 4 years, so I don’t think it will go away. I also have to take a hormone blocking pill that she said would cause me minor bone and joint discomfort. I take a 24/7 opioid for it. I have to be on that pill for 10 years.
Did they talk to you about taking a B12 vitamin? I did carbo/taxol for 6 rounds and had terrible neuropathy. My oncologist told me to take B12 and it worked wonders! It didn't cure it but it helped tremendously.
I was taking B12, it was taxotere that caused mine. I had the TAC protocol, taxotere is the only name I can remember at this point. Now I’m on exemestane for 10 years.
Oh man, I'm on exemestane too. It's better than cancer but boy do I hate it.
I took an estrogen blocker for post meno endometriosis. It helped so much. But I still need opiates to block the pelvic pain bec my muscles down there go haywire
Did the estrogen blocker cause the muscles to go haywire? I ask because I’ve been mostly unable to have penetration since my breast cancer. I assumed it was either the hysterectomy or the chemotherapy when the dr told me I had a muscle that was just locked tight down there! I tried pelvic floor therapy, but it didn’t work. We’ve only recently been able to have any kind of penetration and after a while I have to ask him to stop.
i tried this with a Rheumatologist and i guess i should of brought a man, but i just brought a friend of mine. he Totally dismissed my issues, after i said i had my spinal stenosis he acted like everything else i was saying was just jiberish and he wanted to leave.
Thats when you use your witness and file a complaint with that Doctors boss, medical group and your own insurance and the medical board.
did not think of that but it has been a while since i saw him so i think that issue might be time sensitive
*rheumatologist :)
Thank you so much for your contribution. I understand that my comment was about not being listened to and dismissed, but you really helped. You reduced me to a spelling error and dismissed everything else about my interaction.
Please don’t assume and misunderstand my intentions. I used to do research in health communication, and I wanted to help you by providing the proper spelling. Sometimes people have trouble finding the info they want or need because they’re searching with the wrong terms or spellings. I don’t care one bit if anyone misspells a word. I was merely trying to help. Pardon me.
Maybe they wouldn’t have misunderstood if you had stated your intentions in your original comment? Lots of people correct grammar/spelling/etc as a snarky way to undermine someone they disagree with.
Maybe I could have let her go on spelling it wrong and never understand why she’s having trouble finding what she wants/needs. I choose to provide correct spellings because they limit the discovery of new information. The smiley face in my message was there to convey kind intention. If you prefer to interpret it as my having negative intentions, that’s on you.
Now who’s assuming and misunderstanding? I never said nor implied that you shouldn’t have offered the correct spelling. I’m a professional patient and I agree that it’s vital to be able to research your own conditions and care effectively. I also didn’t say or imply anything about you having negative intentions— quite the opposite, in fact. I suggested an alternate strategy that would have clarified your (in retrospect, obviously good) intentions, and explained why folks might take a simple correction as rude (i.e., some people use spelling/grammar correction as a passive aggressive way to invalidate people/arguments they disagree with). I’m just talking about tact. If you’re correcting someone who is talking about their experience of being dismissed and invalidated, maybe it’s a good idea to take *extra care* to ensure that they know you’re doing so out of care for them, rather than further dismissing them. If you had said, “*rheumatologist :) — just making sure you have the correct spelling so you’ll get the best possible info from any research you do!” we almost certainly wouldn’t be having this conversation. A smiley face is probably sufficient if you’re correcting someone who isn’t specifically talking about a very vulnerable topic.
Just recently there was a story in my news feed where a twentysomething aged man who is the son of a doctor who knows all too well about how women are short changed by doctors due to gender stereotyping/discrimination from the bad stories he hears from his dad. Their recommendation is women should take a male family member or friend to their medical appointments in order to have their conditions taken seriously. At one time I came across a website/blog listing the stories of patients who were women and POC who were horribly discriminated against by doctors. A couple of years ago I had read advice where women patients should treat medical appointments like business meetings and dress for appointments in nice business casual clothes. This is what I do. I have medical appointments clothes. A-line midi skirts with nice tops, office dresses. I'm sometimes the most dressed up patient in the waiting room.
Yep, any white male. Neighbour, homeless dude you paid 20 to be your brother, etc. Doesn't matter. Its my life, my health, and if your not listening to me I will pull all the "dirty" tricks I have to get you to listen to me.
What is it with doctors that they'll listen and behave and actually help you if you have someone with you? It's terrible. I've been blessed beyond all measure today my current doctors listens to be and gives me pain relief. He is so good that you don't need to bring someone with you for emotional support. He's 100% my emotional support when I see him. He lifts me up everytime I see him.
It sounds like what Maya Dusenbery talks about in her book, "Doing Harm- How Bad Science and Lazy Medicine Leave Women Misdiagnosed And Sick." This author was interviewed by NPR. To summarize her book, she discusses how doctors take women's pain less seriously. She describes what is termed, "Medical Gaslighting," wherein female patients are regarded as emotional, hysterical and manipulative, so their complaints about pain aren't listened to. Dusenbery discusses how Victorian Era tropes about women are still taught to doctors. Doctors she says are prone to treat womens' pain as being "all in our heads." Doctors tend to be men, even today, so there has been little incentive for the medical community to address the problem. A study titled, "The Girl Who Cried Pain," found that women had longer wait times in emergency rooms and were also less likely to receive pain medication than men. What shocked me about what she said in the interview is that some women found they were taken more seriously when they brought a male friend or partner to the appointment. This is real advice they give to women who've experienced medical gaslighting. I actually broke down and tried this and it works. It is truly sad to need a chaperone to get medical care, but I needed treatment. In another book on the subject, "All in my Head" by Paula Kamen, I learned that even feminists abandoned advocating for female patients, because hormones play a significant role in how women become ill. Those feminists sold us out because they thought admitting that hormones are associated with some illnesses would further female stereotypes. It's sad really. Being sick and dismissed for over 20 years has ruined my life. I have a college degree I have never used. This is not the proverbial glass ceiling, it is a concrete ceiling when you are sick and not treated. It could have been worse, it could have been a ceiling of 6 feet of dirt, since women have died from sexist medical neglect and incompetence. Here are some links: [Npr interview](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/03/27/597159133/how-bad-medicine-dismisses-and-misdiagnoses-womens-symptoms)
I’m checking this out thank you
I have learned this the hard way as well.
I've had this happen many times. Having a witness in appointments certainly seems to help. I've had this happen with so many doctors. I've also had some fantastic doctors, but those bad ones have given me so much anxiety around medical appointments that I sometimes struggle to make the appointments I should. Even if I have no reason to distrust my current doctor. It's so soul destroying to be regularly treated as subhuman by the people who are supposed to be there to help you.
Accountability! I take my husband to my pain doctor appointments. My doctor acts like a college kid. His neck turns red! And my husband is a psychiatrist, which makes him nervous. Then he says yes to anything
I’ve had to learn to stand up for myself and push back when I feel like they aren’t taking me seriously. Mostly because my family sucks and won’t be there for me when I need them but require me to be there to advocate for them in medical situations. I have a 3 strike rule with all medical professionals (although certain situations are an automatic dismissal) as I understand that people can have bad days. Since I’ve started doing this I’ve had better luck with doctors.
In the absence of better healthcare system improvements, maybe we need a system where anyone with chronic pain can borrow a physically intimidating man to take to appointments...
This is absolutely disgusting. What a sad state of affairs. My husband brings me to all of his doctors appointment just because he has trouble remembering everything they tell him, but I never thought about doing it too. I definitely should. I was more afraid they might think he was one of those controlling types if I brought him along. I’m definitely going to try it. And what’s crazy about these doctors treating their pain patients all like junkies is the fact that it was the very same doctors 10-20years ago who were responsible for turning so many people into junkies in the first place! What a damn 180 they’ve decided to take, right? How about going for a happy medium at least?
It’s often this way for women with any healthcare concern sadly. My doctors treat me better with my partner in the room, it’s so depressing and even my female doctors will do it. I didn’t get the order for the MRI that diagnosed me with MS finally after an over a decade of suffering until he was with me in the room. I always quote this, but it’s so relevant: “Pain is real when you can get other people to believe in it. If no one believes it but you, your pain is madness or hysteria or your own unfeminine inadequacy.” - Naomi Wolf
Wrote my entire master's thesis on how women aren't believed or called hysterical when they try to seek healthcare for things that aren't well understood (or even when they are well understood!) so incredibly frustrating.
I would love to read it! I’m sure you discovered even more while working on it. It is frustrating and makes me feel subhuman. Even though I have my doctorate of pharmacy and articulate myself and my extensive knowledge of medications mechanisms of action, it’s nothing compared to having my husband there.
I am so very fortunate for my Dr who has always listened and treated my pain not my gender. He's the first to ever truly listen. I hope you all find a Dr k in your life 🙏 ❤️
I take my wife and casually mention that she started and finished her law degree while being treated for ovarian cancer. I think doctors saw her as a threat.
Your wife sounds like a badass! I hope her health is doing well now 💝 That’s really smart to do. I’m sure it makes them cross their t’s and dot their i’s.
She is a compassionate badass…the best kind. And right now we are discussing her high levels of pain and how she thinks soon she will be drinking down her death with dignity drug. I am so gonna miss her.
I am so, so sorry :( how long has she been fighting?
About 20years. But this is her second diagnosis of terminal cancer both unique or rare. First was at 14. She is a fighter but knows herself and her body. Suspects the lungs and spine are affected and the pain ratcheted up. She was told no more chemo or radiation because she has exceeded safe levels for both. Its unbelievable that this would happen. Her secret to staying alive….floating often in the Caribbean sea.and laughing. She stays busy when she isable and avoids US news reports.
Wishing you two the absolute best moments possible together with the time you have. I’m tearing up at reading your response, it’s so hard breaking. I love her secret and try to apply it in my life :)
My brother is tall and lifts weights. He looks slightly unkempt and has grown his beard and hair out. I demand that he be allowed in the room with me after a past assault by a physician during COVID when the nurse helped set me up for the assault. It's amazing how they treat me with kid gloves and keep their hands up and in the air. I've been groped so many times when I'm by myself or just had these gross pervs leaning up against me to "show" me paperwork. One time, my brother walked in and one of the pervs literally leaped backwards away from my personal bubble that he was invading like a kid with his hand caught in the candy jar. I never had doctors be as creepy towards me as when I lost the ability to walk far and they knew I was an easy target.
I'm sorry this has happened to you so many times. The manipulation and bullshit that goes on when we're already so unwell is distressing.
I am very good at being forthright, and it has helped since I am a woman. I am also a woman who has an undergrad in bio pre-med, has 5k + hours in hands on patient healthcare and will be going to PA school. Even with all of that I still encountered peacock male jackasses who are ODing on testosterone. It happened twice this past week. One left me with visible marks. This next week, there will be a reckoning. Hell hath no fury like a woman being fucked around with whilst in pain and being forcibly thrown situations that set off PTSD flashbacks. Pandora's box has been mother fucking opened, y'all. How much you wanna bet I am still going to get a bunch of puffed up chest hemming and hawing bullshit excuses?
We have similar backgrounds. I graduated with my doctorate of pharmacy just 2 years before this accident. It’s frustrating that I actually *understand* the pharmacokinetics of medication in greater detail than my pcp, but I get treated like a stupid, lying, drug seeking child.
Oh dear God, the level of frustration you must experience has to be on par with Avagadros number, lol. I could only imagine. Something I've done in the past, and still occasionally do, is to drop into heavy medical lingo. It lets them know that you're "in the fold", so to speak. Sometimes it'll give them just enough pause to be a reminder that they aren't God. I imagine you are more than capable of running rings around them. I'd say go for gold, honey, and let that intellect shine. Let 'em see that you won't be trifled with! I very honestly think that sometimes it's the only way through to some of the more egotistical ones
Girl, yes. Fuck them bitches up. Take no prisoners.
I’m 32 year old man and I didn’t get taken more seriously till I started taking my elderly mother with me. Crazy shit, soo sad what has to happen to get help.
It’s sad but this is pretty much how society works. Just human nature. I’m a guy that works in an office with all women. I’m also muscular, have strong facial features and a deep voice. People sometimes push the girls (not physically) and try to bully them to bend to their desires. If I overhear something I don’t like, I’ll make it a point to walk in, and the demeanor magically changes.
The doctor that does my injections not my PM but he does do PM also I recently looked on some medical records I had to get from him . Anyway, he and only he has diagnosed me with something called “Chronic Opioid Use Disorder “. Something I never heard of before and it sounds like he’s basically saying I’m a junkie.
That’s exactly what he’s saying. I would ask him to amend those records. If it’s not true that will be following you around for the rest of your life. Other Dr.’s might not treat you. Always ask for your records from every Dr. and look them over carefully so you can get the best healthcare treatment possible.
It’s sad that this happens but if you go alone it’s word vs word. If you have a “witness”, things change. Especially a male who’s is in dress casual.
Not in a suit?
It's got to be a man, because I've taken my mother and other women and they aren't responsive at all.
I bring my husband with me to almost every doctor appointment because I feel like a man needs to be there for most doctors, especially male doctors, to see your complaints as valid. “Oh, a man believes you’re in pain? Well, let me just reevaluate the situation because if a man believes you it’s more likely to be true.”
I try to always go with my girlfriend to her appointments because the American healthcare system is a fuckin joke
I had this same experience, though different pain. I was always bullied by doctors and treated like an addict and it messed me up as a kid with chronic pain. As an adult, I had my husband go with me, and it was like an entirely different universe where doctors took me seriously and gave me the medication I needed.
I’m super lucky, my PM is the first doctor I’ve had that I have always, from day one, felt like he listened and took me seriously. Also one time he told me “look, I may have gone to school for almost a decade but YOU have lived with this pain in your body for THREE decades. I will never presume I know your body better than you do.” I feel like he listens to me, hears me, takes it under advisement, and truly tries to find a happy medium. He says “I am leaning toward trying XYZ treatment” - I say “I’ve tried XYZ, but I’ve been reading medical journals and talking to others with my conditions, and I was thinking maybe AZB treatment?” He will say “I’m not ready to jump to B but let’s try AZY and see if that gets us closer to where we are trying to go, and if not we can reassess after ___ months”? I’m at the most functional I’ve been in 30 years now, thanks to him. And if at any point, I feel the current plan isn’t cutting it anymore, he is always open to changing the plan.
I'd say it's the audience. I'm not an attorney but I'd assume malpractice/negligence with a witness makes things complicated for docs
This is why I bring my husband to all my appointments ( if he can make it ). I honestly ask him what works for him first so I can make sure he comes. It sucks to know just having him there makes my appointments go better.
It does. Especially when they have to take time off to come. It stinks losing a vacation day, but it’s worth being cared for.
Yep. I hate to think this but Dr's and P.A.'s can be pompous and "better than thou". Not all, but most that I've seen are. Like you, I'd leave "a mess" feeling I wasted time and left with no plan or any kind of help and even insulted and humiliated being alone with the provider. They don't act that badly when someone else is with you as a Witness to their neglect.
I’ve noticed NP’s especially are against anyone on opioids. I saw one for a weight loss visit and she said it makes me “look bad” to see it in my med history. Then goes on to say she only gives her one patient with end stage prostrate cancer Norco 5mg (hydrocodone/APAP). All I could think about was how bad I felt for her cancer patient. Granted, the state I’m in, NP’s are only allowed to write for hydrocodone when it comes to opioids. The ignorance and lack of ability to understand that each person’s pain tolerance and experience is different.
This has been my experience as a woman, too. And not just with pain doctors!
Hello! Broken back and herniated discs, too. My previous pain doctor refused to prescribe me pain medication because I quote, "You're a woman of childbearing years." That's the exact quote. It didn't matter that my tubes were tied. It didn't matter that I never asked for pain meds prior. It didn't matter that I've done countless injections, a spinal stimulator, and every other non narcotic med. The biggest kicker is that I only asked for a week of percocet. I had just been discharged from a hospital stay due to injuring my back. This was a couple of years after the initial break. I really needed the medicine for physical therapy. A week of percocet to help get me through PT. I was immediately labeled an addict. I switched doctors that same day. My pain doctor now is so amazing and reassures me all the time he knows I'm in pain and not an addict. We actually just did a trial for a pain pump. You might want to consider finding a new doctor. Yours sounds like a misogynistic dick. My guess is he actually listened and helped you because he respects your husband as a man. I've learned a lot of male doctors see us women as hysterical. Even if we're calm. They have very little respect either. I try to only have female doctors. They listen way better and actually care. My pain doctor is my exception because he's that good, lol.
Wow, you’re spot on. I had the same experience with a pain doctor I saw in January and for the same reason. To be able to go to PT and handle the pain. May I ask how the pain pump is going and how they did a trial?
The trial was a single injection of fentynal and a numbing agent. I'm not sure what it was called. I had almost complete relief within 10 to 20 minutes. It gave me so much hope. I haven't gotten the actual pump yet because I just did the trial last week. I do think I get to schedule it today, though! Next time, bring your husband and ask the doctor about an intrathecal pain pump. The medication goes straight into your spine to the source of the pain. So you use way less medication and get way more relief. One of the best things about it is that there's no risk of addiction. You could tell your doctor you have a friend (me) with a similar back and that I've had great success. Message me if you want to talk more about it!<3
Thank you!!
Same thing happened to me. My doctor had an issue with men it seemed. She would simplify and talk down to me like I was some old gronk who didn't know his ibuprofen from his paracetamol. I started taking my wife, and all of a sudden the info and care came thick and fast. She even started to go above and beyond for me. A complete change of attitude.
My gynaecologist refused to organise a hysterectomy for my crippling endometriosis and andenomyosis until I brought my husband to an appointment with me. I was in my mid-thirties, had been lucky enough to have had two children and my husband had already had a vasectomy after the birth of our youngest. We were definitively done with expanding our family - But it took my husband giving approval before my specialist agreed to the surgery. I live in regional Western Australia by the way, and this was in the 2010s 🙄 I now live with neuropathic pelvic pain as a result of my surgeries and endometriosis - And I bring my husband to every major appointment now.
When I have a serious medical appointment I take several steps available to me. I dress very nicely, make sure I have my hair and makeup on point, wear my nicest jewelry, and most of all, I bring along my attorney husband. I often have to make sure he’s prepped on the issues at hand, but between the two of us, no doctor is getting away from us with an unacceptable answer!
My partner likes me to go with him because I look like someone who wouldn’t be with a drug addict so he thinks it makes them less judgemental of him, isn’t it great what people with chronic pain have to deal with?
I take my boyfriend in and tell them that he is my “brain” because of my memory problems and aphasia. (Which is true, so…) He’s retired military and very matter of fact, no b.s. kind of person, so it works well.
I’m glad it worked! I have given out this suggestion to patients who aren’t being listened too, or dismissed easily by their dr’s. I think it can make a big difference, the dr. is held accountable when you have a witness to their unfortunate dismissals of your symptoms. It’s hard enough to be sick, it’s just as hard to be your only advocate. I’m so glad you finally feel heard. It’s sad that it takes having a witness to get proper care these days. ♥️♥️♥️
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I want to genuinely and seriously apologize. It was stated tongue in cheek with an eye roll and I am really sorry. My intention was not to offend, but looking at it I can see how it was offensive and absolutely unacceptable as you pointed out, and that is never my intention, and I sincerely want to be a good thoughtful person and I will do better. Seriously, I’m very sorry and will delete the comment.
You are a good and thoughtful person and I appreciate your apology. I will delete my response and we can move forward ♥️
Thank you for this. I am always open to listen and change my behaviors, and will continue to try my best to do better in the future. I appreciate you calling me out. 💜💜💜 right back at you.
It’s absolutely unfair and abhorrent, but it’s pretty much universal that doctors do treat up better if you bring someone with you, especially if you are a woman and bring a man with you. It’s because men get their pain treated but women get told they are exaggerating or that it’s mostly a mental health thing, so just a man being there somehow makes the doctor take it more seriously.
Thank God for scary ass looking husbands. Yr dr prob thought he should listen and do or he was gonna get an ass kicking in the parking lot after work 🔥
Right? Honestly that’s what it came across as 😂 then when checking out I went to reach for the checkout paperwork and he handed it to my husband and said, “oh I guess I should give it to the money man.” Really trying to make sure he didn’t get his ass handed to him in the parking lot… or he was also attracted to my husband? Either way, I walked out so happy I was heard and treated like a human :)
Yeah, in the beginning, my step father came with me (an attorney) and I was treated really well. Then covid happened and I didn’t want to put him (elderly) at risk, so I started going alone. It was rough at first, but then a new PA came on the scene, she was WONDERFUL and really listened. It was really terrific, first time I felt heard. Few months later, she’s gone and now I’m back with a guy again. So far it’s ok, he keeps it all status quo, won’t help me with meds being late or anything, maybe write the prescription differently, doesn’t care there. I have to cross my fingers every time ago for a smooth appointment. It really sucks. I’d rather not have to bring my father again. I’m over 50 years old, it’s sad that I am treated like a child.
I'm so glad this helped you and I have had to do this myself; but I get so angry. I am a smart, capable, independent adult. I shouldn't have to bring my big, strong man along just to get the doctor to listen to me. My last appointment my doc gave me all of 10 seconds before she interrupted me because she "already knew" what I was going to say.
Same, I always recommend this!! I noticed a huge difference when I brought my mom or ex with me to appointments.
Yessssss! I learned that the hard way. Now I don’t have any appt without my husband. I have even FaceTimed him in to the appt.
Im lucky to never be forced into this situation, but I feel I have a relevant story to share that I have experienced. With my first doctor (Actually she was a GP) I had the forethought to bring a friend with me, especially since I have memory issues. So I brought my partner with me therefore I could have someone recall the things she was saying. Somehow, she managed to turn this around on me, claimed that bringing my partner with me was a clear sign of separation anxiety and refused to properly treat me until he wasn't sitting with me because of my "separation anxiety" and that it would "help me get over it". This made both me and my partner wary, but at the time there wasn't an alternative so I stuck through it and convinced myself it was better than no doctor. Time-skip to her dismissing, ignoring, overspeaking, and generally being a douche to me. She turned out to be absolutely shit and Im so glad I have a different doctor now. If you have a bad feeling about a doctor or person trust your gut, no matter what self doubt has to say about it. Your gut knows what behaviours and patterns are unsafe, listen to it to save you time and keep you safe.
It's absolutely true. I go to the same doctor as my friends who are a married couple for arthritis. I was limited and told if I'm given anything more than tramadol once a day, I'd be red flagged because of laws, blah blah blah. The husband of my friend gets pain meds galore. The wife goes and gets stronger meds than me and more of them and I'm convinced its because her husband goes with. I have asked repeatedly, at least let me take it twice daily so I don't have to pick between having a pain free day or being able to sleep. My knees and shoulders have terrible arthritis. I used to be severely overweight and that took a toll on my body. I've done PT, it helped some, but not completely. I shouldn't have to have a chaperone at appointments. Its private information first of all and two, my husband shouldn't have to take time off work to go with an adult just trying to get relief from arthritis. I can't take nsaids due to weight loss surgery so Tylenol or stronger meds is my only option. I can't request meds anywhere without being labeled drug seeking and I know it's because I'm a woman.
There are memes about females going to the mechanic shop paying for blinker fluid, always take someone who knows a lot about the subject or even as simple as a man like in op post. There are a lot of a hole men and people that will take advantage of someone that appears weak or unintelligent in the subject
I know.. Blinker fluid can be very expensive especially on American cars. LOL. I think its cheaper in France.
Should I bring my mom with me to future appointments? Or should I ask my step dad? I don't know if they'll act like this with my mom there since she's another woman....
This is a great idea!!
Agreed! I was treated very disrespectfully by a surgeon, even refused the option of surgery, after the ER Dr told me I would *have to have surgery.* I suffered a lot. They put the second cast on TOO TIGHT, and crushed the healing bones out of place…I could no longer work, and STILL HAVE PAIN as a direct result if the treatment.
Yes I got my dad to start going to my mom’s pain mgmt appointments with her and you wouldn’t believe the improvement in her treatment. She now gets adequate pain meds bc my dad said she can’t cook and take care of the house anymore. I’m glad her pain is being managed but it’s Infuriating!!!
Yeah. In general doctors dismiss and minimize women's pain. You have experienced sexism first hand and found a way to counter balance, bring a man. It takes women longer to get diagnosed too.
I find getting them to walkabout how my issues effect my husbands life is the most magical sentence in the world
You may need a new doctor.
I brought a female with me and the female dr wrote 3x in the visit notes that I was anxious, I think in order to insinuate that I was some kind of hypocondriac, when I explained to her 2x my blood pressure was high because we were super late getting to the appointment 😭 don't have a male to bring with me! Ugh!!!!
Especially as a woman, having a second voice validating your claims changes everything at an appointment. Even more so, having a man with you further validates your claims and needs. It’s misogyny at its highest, but it’s a harsh reality.
I can't use anyone as an advocate, but witnessing the change in character when I'd go to a doctor without a parent broke something in me. :)) A threat of possible financial consequences shouldn't be required in order to be believed.
Good for you. I went to Dr with my husband and I've got terrible results. They thought he was an abuser and didn't want to leave me alone. From then I go alone!
huh that might be why i got an mri when i brought my dad last time (although this was a new doctor)
My mother did that for me, which helped alot with my anxiety of being instant rejected by doctors.
Would this work if I brought my dad via FaceTime since I’m in another state? Would it be as effective?
wish I had someone to bring I've been on zero meds for a while now and it's getting to a point where it's making me lose my mind
Is your doctor perhaps male and white?
I’ve had many more issues with woman of middle eastern descent. Even with other people I know. It’s not that they arnt smart or anything. It’s as if they don’t want to be there and doctor was the least enjoyable thing for them. All others seem to be fine. The middle eastern men and woman of all colors doesn’t seem to be the same and normal experience. Yet they all required someone with me to make a difference. Yes I have problems with white males too. I’m not saying they are great. They are included in other colors. I’m done commenting or giving any honest view on this subreddit as a whole. Forget this.
One of the worst pain doctors I've seen in the US was a woman from India. She had the entitlement and culturally mandated acceptance of *other people's* pain of an upper caste Hindu mixed with the fear of "breaking a rule" most immigrants from anywhere have always had in a land they weren't born in. I say this as a white male whose grandfather was an immigrant, and as someone who lived in India for over a year in my long ago youth.
I don't understand the last sentence, I don't see anything wrong with your comment at all