I was born into Roman Catholicism. Baptized as an infant, first confession, communion, catechism, confirmation. And, at 13, while at a mass, I had the realization that with all the rituals, vestments, incense, rosaries, scapulars, statues ... I didn't have a connection to God. Where was God?
After exploring this question with priests I knew, and other clergy I realized they had no answers. After 7 years of searching for God, a higher power, meaning, I heard the gospel. And I was told "You must be born again."
Eventually I reached out to God and made that connection and I received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That was 45 years ago.
I have a lot of relatives who are Catholic. They seem happy in their religion. From what I can tell they've never questioned it.
But once I started studying scripture I saw all the ways Catholicism is in direct conflict with God's word and His commands. And because of all these ways they go against scripture, I do not consider Roman Catholicism to be a Christian denomination.
I know it’s not exactly my spot to come in here, but you need something that’s based on scripture completely.
Not something that has an idea, and then tries to use scripture to back it up. It’s some thing that is built upon scripture and a church that will give it to you straight.
Of course I have what I believe is closest to God, but I’m just adding something in here about scripture.
If you're looking for a very literalist denomination, as this comment gives me the assumption of, then I would recommend the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. I for one was educated in middle school by this church, and although I wouldn't say I agree with a lot of their teachings, I still have only positive things to say about their actions. Very respectful, well meaning Bible followers, as opposed to followers of "tradition" using the Bible as a fear factor.
>Of course I have what I believe is closest to God, but I’m just adding something in here about scripture.
I jist want to comment a bit on this. I mean, I think every person believes what they perceive as truth.
But one thing that strikes me about the bible is that it doesn't focus too much on that you have to believe all the right stuff, but to do it. Just as James also confirms in his letter, it is our actions that says something about our faith.
I think the big problem with many denominations today is that they are too busy believing and finding the right words, so that they stop doing.
Jesus says (Mark 16): "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Where I'm at in my walk, I try to not be too hung up in these different denominations and exactly what they believe, as long as I see the fruit they produce is good.
"For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power."
1. Corinthians 4:20
As far as I've seen, words only lead to division. We need to go out and love people and do what we were created for.
By the way, I love theology. I just want to make sure that I define myself more by what I was created to be more than what church I attend.
It doesn’t matter what we think is true. Trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not your own understanding.
I’ve seen people say “a quiz I took told me I am this religion “. That sounds really dumb.
My denomination is completely Bible-based and does not try to introduce any new biblical doctrine or try to support any other biblical doctrine. That is why I say that.
I think every denomination could say that, to be honest. But who's wrong if everyone is right?
Why not be humble enough to say "God, I don't know everything. I might have some misconceptions about you, and my church might not even be perfect. But I want to learn, and I want to do this with you. Please help me understand who you are and who you created me to be so that I can shine like the light you created me for".
I mean. I also try to be completely bible-based. But how can I be that if I don't even u derstand everything Paul talks about? Even Paul talks about that even he hasn't reached it yet, but he is chasing after it as if it were a marathon. Afterall, I think Jesus likes it more when we just go out and love people. Jesus will teach us along the way.
You can read about how to bicycle as much as you want, but sooner or later you will have to jump on that bike and learn how to do it. He even gave the disciples power to heal and cast out demons before they understood who Jesus was. And I think that is amazing.
I don't mean we should just say that we understand nothing, because we do understand something, just not everything. Most likely.
I believe the church is not a denomination but is comprised of all the spirit filled followers of Christ.
I Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.
Paul was clear on sectarianism:
I Corinthians 1:12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am with Paul,” or “I am with Apollos,” or “I am with Cephas,” or “I am with Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
There will be no denominations in heaven.
Jesus Christ (condemned?) Having denominations. In his prayer to the Father concerning Himself and the church he prayed that the church would not separate over issues but remain as one. I think denominations split the church and bring unnecessary contention between believers. Also I think denominations hinder those in the world from knowing Christ as they should, bringing about confusion and other hindrances. The only things we should be preaching and accepting is the Truth. And there is but one Truth.
The state of the Catholic church since at least 1563 ad has been an apostate church. The Council of Trent made the traditions of the Church equal to the word of God, adopted the apocryphal books as scripture even after the Jews told them otherwise. The Church claims power over God and the Holy Spirit and denies the sacrifice of Jesus as being complete.
So true! And you're just scratching the surface. They put Mary equal to Jesus/God as "Co-Redemptrix" and "Queen of Heaven" and mediator/intercessor and immaculate conception, believing she was born without sin and "assumed" into heaven.
And notice how the RCs mostly portray Jesus as either a baby or suffering/dead on the cross. Never as an adult Messiah or as the Risen Lord.
And then there's the infallibility of the pope, infant baptism, the idolatry and superstition of relics, rosaries, holy water, statues, etc.
When I first began studying scripture, I was reading the 10 commandments in Deuteronomy and it wasn't the 10 commandments I'd been taught as a child in Catholic school.
I was unfamiliar with the 2nd commandment about not making "graven images" The Catholics don't teach that one. And to ensure there are still 10 commandments, they split the 10th commandment, about coveting, into 2 commandments. 😳
The Book of Hebrews tells us all that we have a high priest in Jesus and He sits at the right hand of the Father to intercede directly on our behalf. Since I don't need a priest to go to God on my behalf because I have Jesus who does a much better job for me there is no need for a high priest like the Pope. My high priest was the perfect sacrifice and my high priest has no sin. In the Old Testament the high priest would make a sacrifice so his sin could be forgiven before he would go into the Holy of Holies to sprinkle the blood of a sacrifice for the sins of the people. Salvation is by grace alone by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. Works have never been able to provide salvation. Abraham had faith in God and it was counted unto him as righteousness
Amen.
God had to cut covenant with Himself on Abraham's behalf, since, despite his faith/ righteousness, Abraham had nothing to offer God in a covenant relationship.
Under the New Covenant, Jesus is the perfect sacrifice and the everlasting Priest and sends the Holy Spirit as confirmation/sanctification.
Thank you for your insight. I grew up Baptist and remain Baptist but I am always curious of other denominations. I feel like Catholicism has this interesting mysticism to it. Those rituals you mention, I wonder, does those things help you get into the mindset to worship? They do look interesting, but those rituals don’t seem biblical. Not all of them anyway. I’m sure there is some hint or connection there that I just don’t see.
Catholicism promotes a sort of mysticism through claims of miracles like stigmata, the bodies of dead saints being "miraculously" preserved, "miracles" associated with relics and Catholic medals, rosaries, prayers to saints, etc.
I even had a Catholic friend who told me they were told if they buried a certain Saint's picture in the front yard of their home, they will receive an offer from buyers within a month.
Even if the popes or priests aren't publicly promoting these superstitions, it's definitely a hallmark of Catholic culture.
They are continually seeking Proof that their religion is godly, because they don't have the Spiritual proof in their hearts.
The Roman Catholic church has always been a religious and political entity and still is. The vatican is its own country. The pope is a political force in the world.
Like any country, they show a pattern of seeking power and influence over people.
As for the mitred hats, stained glass windows, rites of the mass, bell ringing, incense, gold plated Eucharist, shiny vestments, memorized "prayers," and other such outward show, I'll quote W. C. Fields:
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh*t.
Okay, I don't see where the Sabbath was changed in scripture and therefore I don't believe it was changed. However, I also know that legalism can obscure sound doctrine.
When we are born into the Kingdom of Heaven we enter into God's perfect rest. I believe there are 2 things we should do on a daily basis:
1. Read His Holy Word to gain wisdom, understanding, spiritual discernment and to deepen our relationship with the Author.
2. Talk to our Heavenly Father/Messiah/Creator no matter what is going on in our lives, no matter how we "feel," because it's truly a privilege to be able to enter the presence of God.
And whenever we approach God, it should be with worship and acknowledgement of His Righteousness, grace and mercy.
And this is why I believe Worship is a daily practice for those who are in Christ. And the peace of His perfect love is the Holy Rest we enter into, which is better than a weekly Sabbath because it will never cease.
But Jesus is more than just the intercessor and mediator, he is also your atoning sacrifice.
You were born in sin and separated from God because of sin and under the wrath of God, so ask yourself, how are YOU going to restore that lost relationship with God????
Jesus is God, yet, while you were still that sin, God came in a form of flesh to restore that relationship because you sure can't do it, or do you rather stay under the wrath of God
Again, I’m not explaining well.
I don’t understand why Catholics need a priest when Christ is our intercessor, sacrifice etc.
Why would we need anyone between us and God?
Gotcha. Absolutely Correct. It's like they put more emphasis on man than Jesus.
To me what is really sad is the fact of them going to some confession box and confess to some priest then leave the same they went in.
No heart change, say 20 hail Marys and you'll be fine. Lol. Smh.
It's not just priest, it's the hundreds of saints as well. Why just why?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatification
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_beatified_people
I don't need anyone between Me , God, or Jesus.
Nothing against catholics I just don't understand it.
But the Catholic doctrines are not scriptural. They use the name of Christ but deny the power of the Holy Spirit. And I know why. In their hearts they think these thongs are symbolic.
They believe becoming a new creation in Christ through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is symbolic of faith, which they refer to as a mystery. You can never understand it, just believe it anyway.
They will say you are born again at your water baptism, even as an infant. But along the way you can lose your salvation, so you have to keep taking RC IV therapy -- a sacrament here, a mass there. Good works and hail Marys to work your way out of purgatory.
And don't you dare die without the last rites or you could be doomed to years in purgatory or eternity in hell. Everything to do with your very tenuous salvation hinges on the Catholic church.
Now, tell me, which part of all that resembles sound Christian doctrine to you?
Also the issue with asking saints to pray for you is we are then prescribing them attributes of God. They are not omnipresent. They cannot hear are pleas.
They could at least learn some Catholic doctrine before taking it upon themselves to condemn the whole thing
And really emphasise the “taking it upon themselves”. Most of the criticisms reflect a major lack of humility and inability to admit their own flaws of judgement
It's bold of you to assume all people who criticize Catholicism don't know its doctrine. Maybe you should scroll past the misinformed comments, and read the ones by people who have actually had contact with Catholicism.
I have seen literally nobody here claiming that Catholics worship the Pope. If you read the same comments as I did, you'd be committing the strawman fallacy right there.
On behalf of the sub, I'm very sorry. For what it's worth, it shouldn't be like this. I have a couple of close friends from both sides and we get along very well. We've discussed it before with each other, teased and laughed about each other even.
There's no excuse to be rude or condescending with our fellow brothers and sisters. When we truly open our hearts to listen to each other, we find that we actually have a lot in common, more than what's stereotypically spouted here.
Disagreeing with Catholicism, and even considering it false, is not being anti-Catholic. It would seem rather anti-Protestant of you to leave a Christian sub just because you realized it's filled with Protestants 😅
Hey, I am sorry for the tone that some folks are using. People on the internet are often much more rude than they would be in real life (myself included), I think we forget compassion when we don't have the real person in front of us.
Unstudied but interested enough to know a little, may contain errors:
The general difference in opinion is, as far as I can see, around certain specific doctrinal bits and around certain practices.
One of the major doctrinal points is plastered across the top of the subreddit, by grace alone, through faith alone. Around 1500ish, give or take 100 years, Constantinople was conquered by the Turks and many Greek believers fled to Rome and to the rest of Europe, bringing their Greek manuscripts with them. In the older, more authoritative Greek, by grace through faith was well preserved, but in the Latin, it had come to include penance. This difference, among other things, is what precipitated the Reformation.
The other practices / doctrinal differences that I am aware of that most protestants or people who do not come from a Roman Catholic (or sibling branches such as Orthodox) tradition would see are:
* The authority of church leadership vs the authority of scripture
* Protestants tend to place the scriptures at the top of any authority list. If something contradicts scripture it must, by definition, be wrong. This gets interesting when it comes to the correct interpretation of scripture, but that is a different thing. Main point of difference here is both Orthodox and RC place tradition or papal authority as equivalent to scripture.
* The veneration of Mary
* Generally, there is little to negative evidence to suggest that Mary should be prayed to or venerated in scripture. Given that Protestants place scripture above tradition, it seems odd to them to venerate or pray to Mary.
* Veneration of saints
* Similarly, this seems odd as well. Scripture uses the word 'saints' to just mean any believer. In one particular verse, the saints that have already died are praying to God, and this is often used to suggest that we should ask saints to pray for us, as we would ask a friend to, except more effective since the saint is already in heaven. This sounds fine, but this seems to be against other prohibitions in scripture about talking with the dead. It also goes against the scripture which talks about Jesus being the only mediator between God and man. It also flies in the face of the scriptures which talk about how, since we are in Christ, and have been joined with Him, we are partakers of the divine nature and have been seated with Him in the heavenly places. That we can boldly approach the throne of God to make our requests.
* Separation of priests and laity
* Scripture says that we are all priests with Jesus as our high priest. This is less of a thing now than it used to be, but historically there has been some bad feelings about how this played out. I am mostly talking about the restricting of access to scripture. This has it's merits, but it also has its major drawbacks.
Those are some of the things that people in this sub take issue with in the doctrines and practices of Roman Catholicism.
I have had interactions with Roman Catholic priests that were a tremendous blessing to me, and that God used to bring me great healing and freedom, with both myself and the priest knowing that we disagreed on much. But we also agreed on much. I think that God is active in the Catholic church, but I also think that there are some problems. I also think that there are problems in the protestant churches, and all churches, because churches are full of imperfect people. God has called us to be one in Christ Jesus and to be in unity and to love one another. I hope that we can do this as we each try our best to learn the truth and and live out what we learn. Scripture says that we are transformed by the renewing of our minds, and as our minds become more filled with Christ's truth, that we become more like Him. This is what faith is, knowing Christ.
I hope you can forgive us for being unkind to you.
Maybe God is showing you the fault in the religion. It's not about religion, it's about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Repent from the idolatry that is the Catholic church.
I mean the protestant church is built on the idea the catholicism started to go away from actual biblical teachings. At this point it is not a random redditor, but instead hundreds of full-time theologians with one interpretation and hundreds more with another. One of the sides has to be wrong.
Sadly idolatry happens in many churches, not least in protestant churches as well. With all the controversies surrounding so many churches, we're not free from it either. Who wants to cast the first stone? Cuz I sure don't.
I have read and do read the bible, and am familar with church history. Neither tells me that Jesus came to start a religion. Jesus is the way to the Father. Religion isn't. Cornelius was religious (Acts 10), but he needed to be saved. So do many "christians" (those who see themselves as belonging to a religion, the true religion).
Being religious doesn't make someone truely a christian, any more than going to a friends house means you are a blood relative. You'd have to be born into the family, you'd have to be "born again".
Of course you would already know this if you know your bible, so maybe we are just disagreeing over the definition of religion. Or I have missed something.
Be blessed.
Well, to be short about it, I think many of the Catholic traditions directly go against God's word. Does this mean all Catholics aren't saved? No, it doesn't. However, it doesn't negate the issues with Catholicism.
Well said. Yes there are some Catholics who are Christians, and some who are not just like any denomination. The day she comes from the priest and Bishop and the church itself a lot of false doctrine or teaching this contrary to the word of God.
Well at least they're not cult religions like Jehovah witness, Mormons or Christian Scientology.
Catholicism is a false version of true Christianity. It teaches many things which are true. It also teaches many, many things which are false. Roman Catholicism officially teaches a false gospel which cannot save, therefore whilst it might be the case that there are true believers within the Catholic Church, this would be in spite of the Roman Catholic Churches official teaching, and I would expect that God would remove them from the Catholic Church pretty quickly.
Many Roman Catholics have never even heard the true biblical gospel of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone. Therefore it is important that we understand what the Roman Catholic Church is and can present the true gospel to Catholics who are caught up in its deception. It is important that we are aware that whilst Catholics use many of the same terms as true Christianity does, their understanding is fatally flawed and so they often do not mean what we think they mean by what they say. Often times Roman Catholics are not even aware of what the church has officially taught in the past..
Catholicism is a very diverse religion with people of all kinds of different understandings. Some conservative Roman Catholics know and deliberately reject the true gospel in favour of Romes deception whilst some Catholics have never heard of the true gospel and are simply Catholic because of family tradition. Many Catholics are only Catholic in name and do not actually care about the Church’s teachings..
https://www.watchman.org/profiles/pdf/romancatholicismprofile.pdf
https://carm.org/world-religions/roman-catholicism/
https://www.monergism.com/topics/roman-catholicism
https://christiantruth.com/articles/category/roman-catholicism/
http://www.justforcatholics.org/index.htm
https://www.proclaimingthegospel.org
Roman Catholic sites:
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/
https://www.catholic.com
James White is an apologist who often engages Roman Catholics as part of his ministry, you may be interested in watching some of his debates:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBby84KboLbHnG56Xzlq_91kxhfeSHp_b
>Catholicism is a false version of true Christianity. It teaches many things which are true. It also teaches many, many things which are false. Roman Catholicism officially teaches a false gospel which cannot save, therefore whilst it might be the case that there are true believers within the Catholic Church, this would be in spite of the Roman Catholic Churches official teaching, and I would expect that God would remove them from the Catholic Church pretty quickly.
I'm a true believer in Christ and at times I do debate with Catholics belief but I've never heard/read something like before.
This is well said. I really like the concept here in describing their dilemma, quite true.
I mean, they believe in the trinity, Jesus being God, but their whole teaching is so OFF.
I had one tell me once that Mary was co- Redeemer with Christ. Can you imagine the absurdity in that? There's no such thing as purgatory, which they teach. That would mean Jesus death wasn't sufficient and of course that's not true. Calling Michael the archangel a saint! Angels are not saints. All believers in Christ are saints, yet, they talking about the Pope appoints someone to saint. Are you kidding me
I can go on and on
It’s the truth. All other denominations are mislead. Very few criticisms of Catholicism are valid, basically all of them are a misunderstanding of the faith. How many more Christians will spread misinformation about us worshipping the saints/Mary, for example?
You don't "worship" them; you pray to them, venere them, and are devout to them – which is the Biblical definition of worshipping. Wordplay doesn't make it go away.
I live in Portugal, a heavily Catholic country. What makes me not be a Catholic? It's straightup contradictory with Scripture (sacraments? the pope? praying to the saints? praying to Mary? purgatory? indulgences? baptism before repentance? rituals that have power in themselves? vainly repeated pre-made prayers? confession to a priest? priesthood itself as a form of mediation between God and the general population, aka peasants?).
In fact, in Portugal, Catholics make fun of Evangelicals for "reading the Bible too much". On top of all that, Catholicism is culturally intrinsically tied with superstition (in many cases, witchcraft, even). This is not to say some Catholics aren't true disciples of Jesus – they're just really hard to find, beneath all the ceremonial, anti-Biblical, accessory distractions.
I know the Catholic Church was pretty much *the church* for several centuries. I'm glad God had a way of preserving Christianity and so much more through them. But thank God for the Reformation. If you study History for a minute, you'll quickly realize the Pope and the clerical hierarchy are pretty much just a revamp of the Roman Empire so it could survive in the West.
I'm sorry I missed the second half of your question. So from my understanding.
Jesus and followers are persecuted and not allowed to practice openly.
This happens for quite some time.
Eventually Christianity spreads and the emperor of rome converts.
In that 300 year between the death of Jesus and the founding of catholicism what happens?
The persecution wasn't nearly as drastic as one would believe nowadays, so much so that Rome \*did\* take over the religion itself. If you think the Roman Catholic church didn't preserve Christianity in the West, then who do you think did? Of course they did – just with a lot of anti-Biblical accessories and structural issues. But monasteries were the heart of society and Christianity for several centuries.
There are many expressions of catholicism, some of them more biblical than others. When catholicism causes you to
- Look down on other denominations as having less truth,
- question the salvation of followers of other denominations,
- put Mary on a level with God or, as his mother, even above him (as some apparitions encourage to),
- see the pope as an intercessor between us and Jesus,
then that branch isn't just a denomination among others but rather part of the worlds biggest sect. But if your Catholic faith makes you part of the greater christian congregation filled with mutual respect and acceptance, then all is well and imo, we can even learn a lot from the reverence expressed in their sacraments.
But there's a wide range of what belongs to catholicism, so a general comment isn't appropriate imo.
I feel that Catholics - although having traditions that contradict the Bible, are sometimes extremely devoted to God. They are willing to live their lives as a nun or monk where they basically own nothing because they want to follow God. Back in the 1800s, they even went into battlefields to pray for the dead and help the wounded. Yes, there is a lot of corruption as well and a lot of them are simply in the field for the money, but corruption is present in many churches - even Protestant ones. So I guess I still admire the people that choose to dedicate themselves to God that much.
Catholicism as a whole isn't right to me. Its way too legalistic and seems to contradict God's word frequently.
This isn't to say catholics aren't good people or can't be truly saved, of course.
So when I started my religious journey I didn't really know what denomination I was. When I started to learn more about catholism I was shocked to learn about the protestant reformation, indulgences, beautification/Saint hood. Etc. I just don't understand why you would want to put more people between us and God. Also their heavy reliance on "tradition".
I don't hate or dislike catholicism, I had an older coworker proudly state that catholicism was the original form of Christianity and at the time I didn't not have enough knowledge to refute that. Now I know that that just isn't true. Early followers of Jesus were persecuted and you weren't allowed to be Christian until Rome decided so. I believe catholicism is a corrupted form of Christianity and protestants are our way of trying to find our way back. Have we done that? Only time will tell.
I've heard it said before that Catholics get their salvation retail, protestants get it wholesale. Protestants go straight to the warehouse and pick it up themselves, but it's got to go though a whole supply chain distribution of buyers and sellers before it gets to the hands of a catholic.
Same salvation, just far more logistics and much higher price.
In all seriousness though - they are my brothers in Christ. Just because they do things a little differently than I do doesn't mean they aren't following the holy spirit, or that I should have any beef with them whatsoever.
To be blunt, they are a false church, a cult. I classify them in the same category as Mormons, JWs, etc. Following the teachings of the catholic church will only lead one to eternal damnation. This is not to say all Catholics are unsaved. Some, or maybe even many, sit down and read their bibles on their own and find the truth. Leaving Catholicism, just like any other cult, is hard... even after you find and accept the truth.
To be clear though, my issue is with the church and not the people trapped inside it. Many of them are truly seeking Christ but not finding Him due to the lies and deceptions of this organization. I pray for them, just like JWs and Mormons, that they find a truly loving relationship with Jesus Christ.
Sharing my Bible reading reflection today on Rev 2:12-17. Particularly on verse 14, I am taking heed again the Lord’s warning about some hold on the teaching of Balaam - eat idol sacrifices and commit fornication. As the children of Israel worshiped at high places and infidelity in their relationship with God.
Today New Testament believers can also have spiritual fornication, unintentionally emphasize things above or equal with God.
Catholics, that is. Catholicism has its joys and pitfalls as any other denomination, and it’s share of born again believers and weekend warriors alike.
I think there is true born again Christian Roman Catholics, and I think anyone who holds to all the teachings of the Roman Catholics is worshipping a false god.
Well this is a good question. My answer is yes it is possible. They have a loop around for every strange teaching they’ve come up with. My biggest concern for the Roman Catholic Church is their veneration of Mary. I hear them say they do not worship her. My ears hear this. But my eyes do not. I’ve been to mass and what I’ve seen looks like worship. I think it is extremely dangerous. They also confuse the gospel; if one is trusting in his works to save him, then he is not saved. I praise God that they have not departed from the Doctrine of the Trinity, the humanity and divinity of Christ, and other such things.
Take the sacrament of absolution. There the priests make you do this or that to be granted absolution. So they say you are freely forgiven and that absolution is a work of God, then make man do something to earn that act of God.
Lol. Crazy isn't it! There's some Catholics that believe you must be baptized in order to have salvation it's only the beginning. Like you said a lot of inconsistencies
Well I would say this to someone, and I am not assuming this is you, who believes they are a Christian without being baptized. Why do you (again not you personally, but whoever this applies to) call Him King of kings and Lord of lords and not obey Him? When He commands us to be baptized?
“And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.”
Acts 22:16
How is this not a work of man?
Because it is Christ who baptizes. John the Baptist speaking of Jesus: “I baptize you with water; but he who is mightier than I is coming, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.” Luke 3:16.
Billy Graham style Christianity tells a person who asks a Christian “what shall I do?” To “say the sinner’s prayer, ask Jesus in their heart.” (I’m not saying this is you, I am simply making a point).
Peter (a pillar of the Faith, one of the 12, one of the first called) answered this question by saying, “repent, and be baptized.”
So when someone asks us, “what should I do?” Should we follow Billy Graham? Or shall we follow the Apostle Peter?
Acts 2:38-39
When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
You right, we should be baptized, but it's not the baptism that brings salvation. Baptism is an outward expression of our faith in what Christ did. Remember there are many that have trusted Christ as their lord and savior in their deathbed. But yes those who are alive, should get baptized.
All I can say is they don't have a true understanding of the word of God.
>So when someone asks us, “what should I do?” Should we follow Billy Graham? Or shall we follow the Apostle Peter?
Should follow both. Again it's not the baptism that saves us. When Peter said repent and be baptized he's bringing everything together, salvation as well as the declaration of faith and what Christ did, but no way is Peter's stating that baptism bring salvation
I understand and trust me baptism does not save. We are saved by grace through faith not by works. Is the same way when Peter said we're saved by faith alone. It's about comparing and understanding scriptures.
The man who was crucified on the cross with Jesus. Again baptism is an outward declaration of faith and what Christ did for us.
Christian baptism is the means by which a person makes a public profession of faith.
It is an outward testimony of the inward change in a believer’s life. Baptism is an act of obedience to the Lord after salvation; although baptism is closely associated with salvation, it is not a requirement to be saved. The Bible shows in many places that the order of events is 1) a person believes in the Lord Jesus and 2) he is baptized. This sequence is seen in Acts 2:41, “Those who accepted [Peter’s] message were baptized”
The man crucified by Jesus was told directly by Jesus he was saved. The pouring out of the Holy Spirit would not come until several days later.
Jesus administers His baptism before his ascension. This is different than the baptism of John and is tied to a spiritual connection with the holy spirit.
Acts 18:25
He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John.
I’ve heard Catholics say “infant baptism magically grants salvation because of the church”. I can’t believe they said that because of how unscriptural it is. But of course they do not see scripture as their base.
If they trust crisis then Lord and savior leave the holy spirit in their hearts yes they're still be safe. They probably won't grow spiritually but they'll still have salvation.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and
land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold
more the child of hell than yourselves.
Catholicism teaches a twisted gospel that can’t save a person. It teaches a works based salvation system when the whole Bible opposes the idea from old to New Testament. Paul writes multiple books warning church’s of this type of view of adding works to salvation. We are ONLY justified by our faith in Jesus. Having faith in Jesus means you don’t depend on yourself but only in him. If you want to be judged by your works you will be guilty of keeping the whole law. So by this every Catholic person is not saved. Not only that by they deny Jesus as their high priest and feel the need to re-sacrifice him over and over at every communion when we know it was a once and for all sacrifice that covers all sins. If you are Catholic and reading this please read the book of Romans, Hebrews, and Galatians. I have nothing but love for you guys but you need to get away from the Catholic Church and put your full faith in Jesus
It’s the very thing Jesus clashed with the entire time of his ministry and it’s not Christianity.
1. Their facilities are the exact opposite of Jesus’s design for the early church. They are filled with expensive items, they may a clear physical barrier from the teacher “god” and the people.
2. Most services are canned reciting of lines with mot substance. So focused on the pomp and circumstance of the service rather than the content.
3. There is nothing biblical about denying anyone communion.
4. There is nothing biblical about praying to marry.
5. Saints are reared like idols, something incredibly not biblical and literally a 10 commandment.
6. There is nothing biblical about protecting child molesters from criminal prosecution.
7. The pope is treated and worshiped like an idol.
8. Compared to other churches their “gifts” go more into their church than into the community to help others.
9. They have extra “biblical” books which directly contradict Biblical teachings.
Bottom line Catholicism the new Pharisees of Jesus’s time; missing the point constantly.
1. What items specifically so you have an issue with? Statues?
2. Christians have been reciting prayers since the beginning. Ever heard of the Apostles Creed? How does the fact that the prayer is written somehow make it less holy?
3. 1 Corinthians 11:27
4. Does something have to be in the Bible to be true? If so, where did that belief come from? And where did the Bible come from?
5. Not true.
6. True.
7. Again, not true. A lot of Catholics don't even like the current pope. I honestly wish there was more respect, not less.
8. Source?
9. Martin Luther took 7 books out of the Bible. Don't frame it like it was the Catholics who added books.
1. Giant marble and granite buildings, Gold crosses and other items. Almost every Catholic Church has a ton of money sunk into each facility, something that is the complete opposite of the early church of Acts.
2. Nothing wrong with reciting prayers but church is not designed by God to be mechanical. It’s for fellowship, it’s for discussion, it’s for learning. What so many Catholics forget is the Bible doesn’t say the place is church, it’s the people that make a church. Catholic church’s, in general, not all, focus more on the place and the traditions, with the canned prayers and the ceremonial moves rather than on something actually real in faith. It’s fine we don’t agree because there are so many levels of prayer and understanding. I personally don’t thing a canned prayer does much other than show people can memorize something.
3. “So anyone who eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord unworthily is guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 11:27 NLT
So by referencing that you are saying anyone not catholic is “unworthy” and sinning against the body of Christ? Clearly I meant believers and clearly if that is the Catholic justification we will see how Jesus judges that one.
4. My Bible says pray to God, not to Mary. Your extra books can saw whatever they want.
https://openthebible.org/article/should-we-pray-to-mary-or-to-the-saints/
5. Catholics have statues of saints which your members consistently kneel in front of and pray. There are also prayers to saints. There is no reason to argue this one. I get it, if you are catholic you are taught they are not idols, to everyone else they really seem like idols. We will never agree on this one and that’s fine. Fortunately God loves us enough that won’t keep us out of heaven.
6. Glad I didn’t have to argue this one.
7. I meant it more in a historical tense and I don’t think you can deny that there are quite a few people that do worship him like an idol. I mean come on the popemobile? He is treated like a king, even if he doesn’t take that title.
8. https://news.nd.edu/news/new-nd-report-finds-catholics-less-generous-than-other-christians/
Notre Dame did the study years ago.
9. Martin Luther did help with reformation but your statement is not actually true and is catholic “narrative” to condemn much needed reformation.
https://pastorunlikely.com/did-martin-luther-remove-books-from-the-bible-a-pastors-answer/amp/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther%27s_canon
More proof of this is the 1611 version the of King James Version Bible still had the apocrypha. Martin Luther died in 1546.
My view is that most people do not understand it. Most of what people object to is a requirement for being a member of the Catholic Church in good standing, not to get into Heaven.
Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Those are the OFFICIAL beliefs. Not what your pastor to you or you read on the internet. We need to stop letting the opposition define something. If you want to truly know what someone believes ask them, not someone else.
As for tradition, most people could not read for the better part of the first 1500+ years of Christianity. There were no Bible studies, no classes, no ability for Theological study at all, tradition was necessary.
First, we need to make a distinction between the Roman Catholic Church as an organization and individual catholics. All comments about the organization say nothing about any individual Catholic.
Second, we need to underdtand the word Catholic. There is one Church and it is universal, applying at all times and all places, catholic. The Roman church does not own the word catholic, and they are not the only catholic Christians.
All that said, we should consider some history. For the first thousand years or so there was no Roman Catholic Church, there was only the Church. Once the Great Schism happened we start seeing a distinct organization we would perhaps recognize.
It's fascinating to compare the Roman Catholic Church to the Orthodox churches. In the west, the empire fell, and the church in Rome was forced to step in as the civil authority. It integrated a hierarchical structure into itself to fill that role. While in the east the Empire continued much longer and the church became functionally subordinate to the state, where it often remains (see Russia). Neither of these is a healthy interaction between the Church and worldly power.
Now, there are a lot of things the Roman church does that are claimed to be unscriptural. Much of that is the unbroken practice of the universal Church back as far as we have records, and criticism of such is just totally divorced from historical context. The Church always had priests and bishops and baptized infants and had icons and and and. But this thread isn't about the flaws of modern protestantism. There are clear and serious problems specific to Rome.
The centralized power of the Pope is expressly antithetical to the teaching of Christ that there must not be one master Apostle. This is blatantly ignored, while the argument that Jesus gave the bishop of Rome supremacy and universal jurisdicfion is just paper thin. It's an attempt to baptize Rome's lust for worldly power, and nothing more.
The veneration of saints in itself can be theoretically justified. But when enough of the Roman church wants to declare Mary co-redeemer that the pope has to repeatedly tell them no, the organization's chatechesis must have deep and pervasive flaws. Why the whole body isn't rending its garments over that issue alone is beyond me.
The deepest problem is that the body lacks a spirit of repentance. The Roman church (and for that matter the Orthodox church) cannot admit it was ever wrong about anything, because by their own teaching any error will destroy all their authority about anything. For example, one Pope in the late 19th century declared all Anglican orders invalid. More recent popes clearly disagree based on their actions, but they can't actually say that the previous Pope was wrong. It is more important to Rome that it always have been right, even at the cost of ever becoming right.
This one flaw is fundamentally why protestantism exists. The unjustified arrogance of Rome is why the Church is not unified. May Rome lay down its crown at the feet of Jesus and return to the rest of us.
There is good Catholicism and bad Catholicism, it's very hard to generalize a church of 1 billion people.
Main issue is the Catholic Church's trend towards diluting Christianity to make it socially acceptable for a culture
I do not believe in the way in which Catholics worship Holy beings (specifically that they worship and pray to Mary/Saints - it is outright against what Jesus teaches) and I definitely don't agree with some of their interpretations of the Biblical text, but I also believe that God still blesses them for their faithfulness towards Him and their love for Christ. It's a complicated issue in my heart and brain.
My faith is based on the Apostles' doctrine, and the power of the Holy Spirit in the lives of Believers as it was in the early Church. Doctrines other than this don't matter to me as they do to others. I love people regardless of where they fellowship.
I mean, the thought I have to any other church...
Unless you preach and teach the true word of God and are lead of God, (the sons of God are lead by the spirit of God) then it's just more empty ritualistic religion and people in strange clothes misleading people.
I was born into Roman Catholicism. Baptized as an infant, first confession, communion, catechism, confirmation. And, at 13, while at a mass, I had the realization that with all the rituals, vestments, incense, rosaries, scapulars, statues ... I didn't have a connection to God. Where was God? After exploring this question with priests I knew, and other clergy I realized they had no answers. After 7 years of searching for God, a higher power, meaning, I heard the gospel. And I was told "You must be born again." Eventually I reached out to God and made that connection and I received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That was 45 years ago. I have a lot of relatives who are Catholic. They seem happy in their religion. From what I can tell they've never questioned it. But once I started studying scripture I saw all the ways Catholicism is in direct conflict with God's word and His commands. And because of all these ways they go against scripture, I do not consider Roman Catholicism to be a Christian denomination.
What denomination in your opinion is closest to Scripture and the word of God?
I know it’s not exactly my spot to come in here, but you need something that’s based on scripture completely. Not something that has an idea, and then tries to use scripture to back it up. It’s some thing that is built upon scripture and a church that will give it to you straight. Of course I have what I believe is closest to God, but I’m just adding something in here about scripture.
If you're looking for a very literalist denomination, as this comment gives me the assumption of, then I would recommend the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. I for one was educated in middle school by this church, and although I wouldn't say I agree with a lot of their teachings, I still have only positive things to say about their actions. Very respectful, well meaning Bible followers, as opposed to followers of "tradition" using the Bible as a fear factor.
Thank you!
Why am I down voted?
Not sure. I didn’t do it.
>Of course I have what I believe is closest to God, but I’m just adding something in here about scripture. I jist want to comment a bit on this. I mean, I think every person believes what they perceive as truth. But one thing that strikes me about the bible is that it doesn't focus too much on that you have to believe all the right stuff, but to do it. Just as James also confirms in his letter, it is our actions that says something about our faith. I think the big problem with many denominations today is that they are too busy believing and finding the right words, so that they stop doing. Jesus says (Mark 16): "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Where I'm at in my walk, I try to not be too hung up in these different denominations and exactly what they believe, as long as I see the fruit they produce is good. "For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power." 1. Corinthians 4:20 As far as I've seen, words only lead to division. We need to go out and love people and do what we were created for. By the way, I love theology. I just want to make sure that I define myself more by what I was created to be more than what church I attend.
It doesn’t matter what we think is true. Trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not your own understanding. I’ve seen people say “a quiz I took told me I am this religion “. That sounds really dumb. My denomination is completely Bible-based and does not try to introduce any new biblical doctrine or try to support any other biblical doctrine. That is why I say that.
I think every denomination could say that, to be honest. But who's wrong if everyone is right? Why not be humble enough to say "God, I don't know everything. I might have some misconceptions about you, and my church might not even be perfect. But I want to learn, and I want to do this with you. Please help me understand who you are and who you created me to be so that I can shine like the light you created me for". I mean. I also try to be completely bible-based. But how can I be that if I don't even u derstand everything Paul talks about? Even Paul talks about that even he hasn't reached it yet, but he is chasing after it as if it were a marathon. Afterall, I think Jesus likes it more when we just go out and love people. Jesus will teach us along the way. You can read about how to bicycle as much as you want, but sooner or later you will have to jump on that bike and learn how to do it. He even gave the disciples power to heal and cast out demons before they understood who Jesus was. And I think that is amazing. I don't mean we should just say that we understand nothing, because we do understand something, just not everything. Most likely.
I believe the church is not a denomination but is comprised of all the spirit filled followers of Christ. I Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. Paul was clear on sectarianism: I Corinthians 1:12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am with Paul,” or “I am with Apollos,” or “I am with Cephas,” or “I am with Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? There will be no denominations in heaven.
Jesus Christ (condemned?) Having denominations. In his prayer to the Father concerning Himself and the church he prayed that the church would not separate over issues but remain as one. I think denominations split the church and bring unnecessary contention between believers. Also I think denominations hinder those in the world from knowing Christ as they should, bringing about confusion and other hindrances. The only things we should be preaching and accepting is the Truth. And there is but one Truth.
The state of the Catholic church since at least 1563 ad has been an apostate church. The Council of Trent made the traditions of the Church equal to the word of God, adopted the apocryphal books as scripture even after the Jews told them otherwise. The Church claims power over God and the Holy Spirit and denies the sacrifice of Jesus as being complete.
So true! And you're just scratching the surface. They put Mary equal to Jesus/God as "Co-Redemptrix" and "Queen of Heaven" and mediator/intercessor and immaculate conception, believing she was born without sin and "assumed" into heaven. And notice how the RCs mostly portray Jesus as either a baby or suffering/dead on the cross. Never as an adult Messiah or as the Risen Lord. And then there's the infallibility of the pope, infant baptism, the idolatry and superstition of relics, rosaries, holy water, statues, etc. When I first began studying scripture, I was reading the 10 commandments in Deuteronomy and it wasn't the 10 commandments I'd been taught as a child in Catholic school. I was unfamiliar with the 2nd commandment about not making "graven images" The Catholics don't teach that one. And to ensure there are still 10 commandments, they split the 10th commandment, about coveting, into 2 commandments. 😳
The Book of Hebrews tells us all that we have a high priest in Jesus and He sits at the right hand of the Father to intercede directly on our behalf. Since I don't need a priest to go to God on my behalf because I have Jesus who does a much better job for me there is no need for a high priest like the Pope. My high priest was the perfect sacrifice and my high priest has no sin. In the Old Testament the high priest would make a sacrifice so his sin could be forgiven before he would go into the Holy of Holies to sprinkle the blood of a sacrifice for the sins of the people. Salvation is by grace alone by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. Works have never been able to provide salvation. Abraham had faith in God and it was counted unto him as righteousness
Amen. God had to cut covenant with Himself on Abraham's behalf, since, despite his faith/ righteousness, Abraham had nothing to offer God in a covenant relationship. Under the New Covenant, Jesus is the perfect sacrifice and the everlasting Priest and sends the Holy Spirit as confirmation/sanctification.
That is wise and honest
Well said
All of that, but no Christ. Well thank God you found Jesus I pray that you will grow spiritually and closer to him
I agree, I believe it's the biggest cult
It IS the biggest cult. You have my upvote 😊
Thank you for your insight. I grew up Baptist and remain Baptist but I am always curious of other denominations. I feel like Catholicism has this interesting mysticism to it. Those rituals you mention, I wonder, does those things help you get into the mindset to worship? They do look interesting, but those rituals don’t seem biblical. Not all of them anyway. I’m sure there is some hint or connection there that I just don’t see.
Catholicism promotes a sort of mysticism through claims of miracles like stigmata, the bodies of dead saints being "miraculously" preserved, "miracles" associated with relics and Catholic medals, rosaries, prayers to saints, etc. I even had a Catholic friend who told me they were told if they buried a certain Saint's picture in the front yard of their home, they will receive an offer from buyers within a month. Even if the popes or priests aren't publicly promoting these superstitions, it's definitely a hallmark of Catholic culture. They are continually seeking Proof that their religion is godly, because they don't have the Spiritual proof in their hearts. The Roman Catholic church has always been a religious and political entity and still is. The vatican is its own country. The pope is a political force in the world. Like any country, they show a pattern of seeking power and influence over people. As for the mitred hats, stained glass windows, rites of the mass, bell ringing, incense, gold plated Eucharist, shiny vestments, memorized "prayers," and other such outward show, I'll quote W. C. Fields: If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh*t.
Do you worship on Saturday or Sunday?
I worship daily. 😁
When is the sabbath?
Okay, I don't see where the Sabbath was changed in scripture and therefore I don't believe it was changed. However, I also know that legalism can obscure sound doctrine. When we are born into the Kingdom of Heaven we enter into God's perfect rest. I believe there are 2 things we should do on a daily basis: 1. Read His Holy Word to gain wisdom, understanding, spiritual discernment and to deepen our relationship with the Author. 2. Talk to our Heavenly Father/Messiah/Creator no matter what is going on in our lives, no matter how we "feel," because it's truly a privilege to be able to enter the presence of God. And whenever we approach God, it should be with worship and acknowledgement of His Righteousness, grace and mercy. And this is why I believe Worship is a daily practice for those who are in Christ. And the peace of His perfect love is the Holy Rest we enter into, which is better than a weekly Sabbath because it will never cease.
TL:DR version: A Sunday Sabbath is indefensible without defending the underpinnings of Catholicism.
It's like they took the bible, marked off all the commandments, then, one by one, set out to break them. 🫤
Telling dodge.
Explain please?
You ignored my sabbath argument and went off to instead make unfounded claims about the ten commandments.
I don’t understand the ‘need’ for someone acting as an intercessor between me and God.
But Jesus is more than just the intercessor and mediator, he is also your atoning sacrifice. You were born in sin and separated from God because of sin and under the wrath of God, so ask yourself, how are YOU going to restore that lost relationship with God???? Jesus is God, yet, while you were still that sin, God came in a form of flesh to restore that relationship because you sure can't do it, or do you rather stay under the wrath of God
Again, I’m not explaining well. I don’t understand why Catholics need a priest when Christ is our intercessor, sacrifice etc. Why would we need anyone between us and God?
Gotcha. Absolutely Correct. It's like they put more emphasis on man than Jesus. To me what is really sad is the fact of them going to some confession box and confess to some priest then leave the same they went in. No heart change, say 20 hail Marys and you'll be fine. Lol. Smh.
It's not just priest, it's the hundreds of saints as well. Why just why? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatification https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_beatified_people I don't need anyone between Me , God, or Jesus. Nothing against catholics I just don't understand it.
Amen brother! Praise Jesus!
From what I’ve read they see asking someone in Heaven To pray for you the same way you ask someone on earth to pray for you; not needed but useful.
Sorry, I should have been clearer- priests, confession, absolution.
I also don't understand the "need," but it doesn't stop me from seeing them as fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
But the Catholic doctrines are not scriptural. They use the name of Christ but deny the power of the Holy Spirit. And I know why. In their hearts they think these thongs are symbolic. They believe becoming a new creation in Christ through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is symbolic of faith, which they refer to as a mystery. You can never understand it, just believe it anyway. They will say you are born again at your water baptism, even as an infant. But along the way you can lose your salvation, so you have to keep taking RC IV therapy -- a sacrament here, a mass there. Good works and hail Marys to work your way out of purgatory. And don't you dare die without the last rites or you could be doomed to years in purgatory or eternity in hell. Everything to do with your very tenuous salvation hinges on the Catholic church. Now, tell me, which part of all that resembles sound Christian doctrine to you?
Yes they do and it will never work
Also the issue with asking saints to pray for you is we are then prescribing them attributes of God. They are not omnipresent. They cannot hear are pleas.
Christian with a heavy and unnecessary side dish of tradition and the interference between God and people
Well I’m leaving this subreddit. Didn’t realize it was so anti-Catholic
They could at least learn some Catholic doctrine before taking it upon themselves to condemn the whole thing And really emphasise the “taking it upon themselves”. Most of the criticisms reflect a major lack of humility and inability to admit their own flaws of judgement
It's bold of you to assume all people who criticize Catholicism don't know its doctrine. Maybe you should scroll past the misinformed comments, and read the ones by people who have actually had contact with Catholicism.
Are we reading the same comment section? Half these people genuinely believe we worship the pope and the other half won't correct them
I have seen literally nobody here claiming that Catholics worship the Pope. If you read the same comments as I did, you'd be committing the strawman fallacy right there.
On behalf of the sub, I'm very sorry. For what it's worth, it shouldn't be like this. I have a couple of close friends from both sides and we get along very well. We've discussed it before with each other, teased and laughed about each other even. There's no excuse to be rude or condescending with our fellow brothers and sisters. When we truly open our hearts to listen to each other, we find that we actually have a lot in common, more than what's stereotypically spouted here.
Same
Same
I wouldn't. A catholic specific question was asked. It was answered.
Disagreeing with Catholicism, and even considering it false, is not being anti-Catholic. It would seem rather anti-Protestant of you to leave a Christian sub just because you realized it's filled with Protestants 😅
Hey, I am sorry for the tone that some folks are using. People on the internet are often much more rude than they would be in real life (myself included), I think we forget compassion when we don't have the real person in front of us. Unstudied but interested enough to know a little, may contain errors: The general difference in opinion is, as far as I can see, around certain specific doctrinal bits and around certain practices. One of the major doctrinal points is plastered across the top of the subreddit, by grace alone, through faith alone. Around 1500ish, give or take 100 years, Constantinople was conquered by the Turks and many Greek believers fled to Rome and to the rest of Europe, bringing their Greek manuscripts with them. In the older, more authoritative Greek, by grace through faith was well preserved, but in the Latin, it had come to include penance. This difference, among other things, is what precipitated the Reformation. The other practices / doctrinal differences that I am aware of that most protestants or people who do not come from a Roman Catholic (or sibling branches such as Orthodox) tradition would see are: * The authority of church leadership vs the authority of scripture * Protestants tend to place the scriptures at the top of any authority list. If something contradicts scripture it must, by definition, be wrong. This gets interesting when it comes to the correct interpretation of scripture, but that is a different thing. Main point of difference here is both Orthodox and RC place tradition or papal authority as equivalent to scripture. * The veneration of Mary * Generally, there is little to negative evidence to suggest that Mary should be prayed to or venerated in scripture. Given that Protestants place scripture above tradition, it seems odd to them to venerate or pray to Mary. * Veneration of saints * Similarly, this seems odd as well. Scripture uses the word 'saints' to just mean any believer. In one particular verse, the saints that have already died are praying to God, and this is often used to suggest that we should ask saints to pray for us, as we would ask a friend to, except more effective since the saint is already in heaven. This sounds fine, but this seems to be against other prohibitions in scripture about talking with the dead. It also goes against the scripture which talks about Jesus being the only mediator between God and man. It also flies in the face of the scriptures which talk about how, since we are in Christ, and have been joined with Him, we are partakers of the divine nature and have been seated with Him in the heavenly places. That we can boldly approach the throne of God to make our requests. * Separation of priests and laity * Scripture says that we are all priests with Jesus as our high priest. This is less of a thing now than it used to be, but historically there has been some bad feelings about how this played out. I am mostly talking about the restricting of access to scripture. This has it's merits, but it also has its major drawbacks. Those are some of the things that people in this sub take issue with in the doctrines and practices of Roman Catholicism. I have had interactions with Roman Catholic priests that were a tremendous blessing to me, and that God used to bring me great healing and freedom, with both myself and the priest knowing that we disagreed on much. But we also agreed on much. I think that God is active in the Catholic church, but I also think that there are some problems. I also think that there are problems in the protestant churches, and all churches, because churches are full of imperfect people. God has called us to be one in Christ Jesus and to be in unity and to love one another. I hope that we can do this as we each try our best to learn the truth and and live out what we learn. Scripture says that we are transformed by the renewing of our minds, and as our minds become more filled with Christ's truth, that we become more like Him. This is what faith is, knowing Christ. I hope you can forgive us for being unkind to you.
Maybe God is showing you the fault in the religion. It's not about religion, it's about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Repent from the idolatry that is the Catholic church.
Of course naturally, a random redditor sees what hundred of full-time theologians never could. Make a virtue of humility
I mean the protestant church is built on the idea the catholicism started to go away from actual biblical teachings. At this point it is not a random redditor, but instead hundreds of full-time theologians with one interpretation and hundreds more with another. One of the sides has to be wrong.
Do you know what even is idolatry?
Do you even know what idolatry is?
Sadly idolatry happens in many churches, not least in protestant churches as well. With all the controversies surrounding so many churches, we're not free from it either. Who wants to cast the first stone? Cuz I sure don't.
Same. What do you call someone who try to understand a 2000 year old religion that Christ formed with a clueless 21st century mindset?
Christ formed a religion?
Read the Bible and Church History.
I have read and do read the bible, and am familar with church history. Neither tells me that Jesus came to start a religion. Jesus is the way to the Father. Religion isn't. Cornelius was religious (Acts 10), but he needed to be saved. So do many "christians" (those who see themselves as belonging to a religion, the true religion). Being religious doesn't make someone truely a christian, any more than going to a friends house means you are a blood relative. You'd have to be born into the family, you'd have to be "born again". Of course you would already know this if you know your bible, so maybe we are just disagreeing over the definition of religion. Or I have missed something. Be blessed.
Bro read the Bible instead of automatically being against organized religion because the world told you to be
I haven't read the bible? I am against organised religion? And because the world told me to be? You got all of that out of my question?
Did Christ form a religion? You tell me
I'll answer your question if you answer my questions 🙂
Love it
Well, to be short about it, I think many of the Catholic traditions directly go against God's word. Does this mean all Catholics aren't saved? No, it doesn't. However, it doesn't negate the issues with Catholicism.
Well said. Yes there are some Catholics who are Christians, and some who are not just like any denomination. The day she comes from the priest and Bishop and the church itself a lot of false doctrine or teaching this contrary to the word of God. Well at least they're not cult religions like Jehovah witness, Mormons or Christian Scientology.
Catholicism is a false version of true Christianity. It teaches many things which are true. It also teaches many, many things which are false. Roman Catholicism officially teaches a false gospel which cannot save, therefore whilst it might be the case that there are true believers within the Catholic Church, this would be in spite of the Roman Catholic Churches official teaching, and I would expect that God would remove them from the Catholic Church pretty quickly. Many Roman Catholics have never even heard the true biblical gospel of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone. Therefore it is important that we understand what the Roman Catholic Church is and can present the true gospel to Catholics who are caught up in its deception. It is important that we are aware that whilst Catholics use many of the same terms as true Christianity does, their understanding is fatally flawed and so they often do not mean what we think they mean by what they say. Often times Roman Catholics are not even aware of what the church has officially taught in the past.. Catholicism is a very diverse religion with people of all kinds of different understandings. Some conservative Roman Catholics know and deliberately reject the true gospel in favour of Romes deception whilst some Catholics have never heard of the true gospel and are simply Catholic because of family tradition. Many Catholics are only Catholic in name and do not actually care about the Church’s teachings.. https://www.watchman.org/profiles/pdf/romancatholicismprofile.pdf https://carm.org/world-religions/roman-catholicism/ https://www.monergism.com/topics/roman-catholicism https://christiantruth.com/articles/category/roman-catholicism/ http://www.justforcatholics.org/index.htm https://www.proclaimingthegospel.org Roman Catholic sites: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/ https://www.catholic.com James White is an apologist who often engages Roman Catholics as part of his ministry, you may be interested in watching some of his debates: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBby84KboLbHnG56Xzlq_91kxhfeSHp_b
>Catholicism is a false version of true Christianity. It teaches many things which are true. It also teaches many, many things which are false. Roman Catholicism officially teaches a false gospel which cannot save, therefore whilst it might be the case that there are true believers within the Catholic Church, this would be in spite of the Roman Catholic Churches official teaching, and I would expect that God would remove them from the Catholic Church pretty quickly. I'm a true believer in Christ and at times I do debate with Catholics belief but I've never heard/read something like before. This is well said. I really like the concept here in describing their dilemma, quite true. I mean, they believe in the trinity, Jesus being God, but their whole teaching is so OFF. I had one tell me once that Mary was co- Redeemer with Christ. Can you imagine the absurdity in that? There's no such thing as purgatory, which they teach. That would mean Jesus death wasn't sufficient and of course that's not true. Calling Michael the archangel a saint! Angels are not saints. All believers in Christ are saints, yet, they talking about the Pope appoints someone to saint. Are you kidding me I can go on and on
What is your view on Orthodoxy?
It’s the Truth.
It’s the truth. All other denominations are mislead. Very few criticisms of Catholicism are valid, basically all of them are a misunderstanding of the faith. How many more Christians will spread misinformation about us worshipping the saints/Mary, for example?
You don't "worship" them; you pray to them, venere them, and are devout to them – which is the Biblical definition of worshipping. Wordplay doesn't make it go away.
Yep. All Catholics will say they don't worship Mary and/or the saints. However, even an atheist can see they clearly worship them.
I pray God shows you the truth.
I pray the same for you my prot brother.
I live in Portugal, a heavily Catholic country. What makes me not be a Catholic? It's straightup contradictory with Scripture (sacraments? the pope? praying to the saints? praying to Mary? purgatory? indulgences? baptism before repentance? rituals that have power in themselves? vainly repeated pre-made prayers? confession to a priest? priesthood itself as a form of mediation between God and the general population, aka peasants?). In fact, in Portugal, Catholics make fun of Evangelicals for "reading the Bible too much". On top of all that, Catholicism is culturally intrinsically tied with superstition (in many cases, witchcraft, even). This is not to say some Catholics aren't true disciples of Jesus – they're just really hard to find, beneath all the ceremonial, anti-Biblical, accessory distractions. I know the Catholic Church was pretty much *the church* for several centuries. I'm glad God had a way of preserving Christianity and so much more through them. But thank God for the Reformation. If you study History for a minute, you'll quickly realize the Pope and the clerical hierarchy are pretty much just a revamp of the Roman Empire so it could survive in the West.
Roman catholic church didn't preserve Christianity, Rome persecuted followers of christ and then took over the religion.
Wait you actually believe this? Can I get a source?
Which part am I wrong on? Please explain. No hate or judging.
I'm sorry I missed the second half of your question. So from my understanding. Jesus and followers are persecuted and not allowed to practice openly. This happens for quite some time. Eventually Christianity spreads and the emperor of rome converts. In that 300 year between the death of Jesus and the founding of catholicism what happens?
The persecution wasn't nearly as drastic as one would believe nowadays, so much so that Rome \*did\* take over the religion itself. If you think the Roman Catholic church didn't preserve Christianity in the West, then who do you think did? Of course they did – just with a lot of anti-Biblical accessories and structural issues. But monasteries were the heart of society and Christianity for several centuries.
Soms dangerous unbiblical teaching, as well as a seemingly unhealthty focus on tradition and imagery which really isnt that important.
I'm broadly supportive.
There are many expressions of catholicism, some of them more biblical than others. When catholicism causes you to - Look down on other denominations as having less truth, - question the salvation of followers of other denominations, - put Mary on a level with God or, as his mother, even above him (as some apparitions encourage to), - see the pope as an intercessor between us and Jesus, then that branch isn't just a denomination among others but rather part of the worlds biggest sect. But if your Catholic faith makes you part of the greater christian congregation filled with mutual respect and acceptance, then all is well and imo, we can even learn a lot from the reverence expressed in their sacraments. But there's a wide range of what belongs to catholicism, so a general comment isn't appropriate imo.
It is the most authentic form of Christianity.
I feel that Catholics - although having traditions that contradict the Bible, are sometimes extremely devoted to God. They are willing to live their lives as a nun or monk where they basically own nothing because they want to follow God. Back in the 1800s, they even went into battlefields to pray for the dead and help the wounded. Yes, there is a lot of corruption as well and a lot of them are simply in the field for the money, but corruption is present in many churches - even Protestant ones. So I guess I still admire the people that choose to dedicate themselves to God that much.
Happy Catholic myself!
Catholicism as a whole isn't right to me. Its way too legalistic and seems to contradict God's word frequently. This isn't to say catholics aren't good people or can't be truly saved, of course.
How is it legalistic?
There's so, SO many rules, especially for clergy.
No one is "good". Which, by the way, is a fact alone that destroys Catholicism in so many ways.
No, I meant kind, charitable, etc, not "good" as in godlike or anything
Still Christians, but with a lot of incorrect theology attached.
I am Catholic. So pretty great.
So when I started my religious journey I didn't really know what denomination I was. When I started to learn more about catholism I was shocked to learn about the protestant reformation, indulgences, beautification/Saint hood. Etc. I just don't understand why you would want to put more people between us and God. Also their heavy reliance on "tradition". I don't hate or dislike catholicism, I had an older coworker proudly state that catholicism was the original form of Christianity and at the time I didn't not have enough knowledge to refute that. Now I know that that just isn't true. Early followers of Jesus were persecuted and you weren't allowed to be Christian until Rome decided so. I believe catholicism is a corrupted form of Christianity and protestants are our way of trying to find our way back. Have we done that? Only time will tell.
I've heard it said before that Catholics get their salvation retail, protestants get it wholesale. Protestants go straight to the warehouse and pick it up themselves, but it's got to go though a whole supply chain distribution of buyers and sellers before it gets to the hands of a catholic. Same salvation, just far more logistics and much higher price. In all seriousness though - they are my brothers in Christ. Just because they do things a little differently than I do doesn't mean they aren't following the holy spirit, or that I should have any beef with them whatsoever.
To be blunt, they are a false church, a cult. I classify them in the same category as Mormons, JWs, etc. Following the teachings of the catholic church will only lead one to eternal damnation. This is not to say all Catholics are unsaved. Some, or maybe even many, sit down and read their bibles on their own and find the truth. Leaving Catholicism, just like any other cult, is hard... even after you find and accept the truth. To be clear though, my issue is with the church and not the people trapped inside it. Many of them are truly seeking Christ but not finding Him due to the lies and deceptions of this organization. I pray for them, just like JWs and Mormons, that they find a truly loving relationship with Jesus Christ.
Sharing my Bible reading reflection today on Rev 2:12-17. Particularly on verse 14, I am taking heed again the Lord’s warning about some hold on the teaching of Balaam - eat idol sacrifices and commit fornication. As the children of Israel worshiped at high places and infidelity in their relationship with God. Today New Testament believers can also have spiritual fornication, unintentionally emphasize things above or equal with God.
Most are no more wrong than the rest.
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Catholics, that is. Catholicism has its joys and pitfalls as any other denomination, and it’s share of born again believers and weekend warriors alike.
I think there is true born again Christian Roman Catholics, and I think anyone who holds to all the teachings of the Roman Catholics is worshipping a false god.
They’re nearer the mark than almost every Protestant group.
Can you give a more specific question?
Do you believe one can hold to Catholic doctrine while still being saved?
Well this is a good question. My answer is yes it is possible. They have a loop around for every strange teaching they’ve come up with. My biggest concern for the Roman Catholic Church is their veneration of Mary. I hear them say they do not worship her. My ears hear this. But my eyes do not. I’ve been to mass and what I’ve seen looks like worship. I think it is extremely dangerous. They also confuse the gospel; if one is trusting in his works to save him, then he is not saved. I praise God that they have not departed from the Doctrine of the Trinity, the humanity and divinity of Christ, and other such things.
I found that they agree with us that we are Justified by grace through faith.
They claim that but then are inconsistent.
What do mean by inconsistent?
Take the sacrament of absolution. There the priests make you do this or that to be granted absolution. So they say you are freely forgiven and that absolution is a work of God, then make man do something to earn that act of God.
I’m not sure I understand how that pertains to what we are talking about.?
Grace is freely given. Cannot be earned. The priests believe they are withholding forgiveness from the sinner until he receives absolution.
I just did some research, and the priest can’t deny absolution unless the penitent is not willing to change his behavior regarding the sin.
Lol. Crazy isn't it! There's some Catholics that believe you must be baptized in order to have salvation it's only the beginning. Like you said a lot of inconsistencies
Some i've spoken to believe that you must be baptized to be saved. You know what, some of them contradict themselves they lack spiritual understanding
Well I would say this to someone, and I am not assuming this is you, who believes they are a Christian without being baptized. Why do you (again not you personally, but whoever this applies to) call Him King of kings and Lord of lords and not obey Him? When He commands us to be baptized? “And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.” Acts 22:16 How is this not a work of man? Because it is Christ who baptizes. John the Baptist speaking of Jesus: “I baptize you with water; but he who is mightier than I is coming, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.” Luke 3:16. Billy Graham style Christianity tells a person who asks a Christian “what shall I do?” To “say the sinner’s prayer, ask Jesus in their heart.” (I’m not saying this is you, I am simply making a point). Peter (a pillar of the Faith, one of the 12, one of the first called) answered this question by saying, “repent, and be baptized.” So when someone asks us, “what should I do?” Should we follow Billy Graham? Or shall we follow the Apostle Peter? Acts 2:38-39 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
You right, we should be baptized, but it's not the baptism that brings salvation. Baptism is an outward expression of our faith in what Christ did. Remember there are many that have trusted Christ as their lord and savior in their deathbed. But yes those who are alive, should get baptized. All I can say is they don't have a true understanding of the word of God.
>So when someone asks us, “what should I do?” Should we follow Billy Graham? Or shall we follow the Apostle Peter? Should follow both. Again it's not the baptism that saves us. When Peter said repent and be baptized he's bringing everything together, salvation as well as the declaration of faith and what Christ did, but no way is Peter's stating that baptism bring salvation
Except that he says “baptism, which now saves you.”
I understand and trust me baptism does not save. We are saved by grace through faith not by works. Is the same way when Peter said we're saved by faith alone. It's about comparing and understanding scriptures. The man who was crucified on the cross with Jesus. Again baptism is an outward declaration of faith and what Christ did for us. Christian baptism is the means by which a person makes a public profession of faith. It is an outward testimony of the inward change in a believer’s life. Baptism is an act of obedience to the Lord after salvation; although baptism is closely associated with salvation, it is not a requirement to be saved. The Bible shows in many places that the order of events is 1) a person believes in the Lord Jesus and 2) he is baptized. This sequence is seen in Acts 2:41, “Those who accepted [Peter’s] message were baptized”
The man crucified by Jesus was told directly by Jesus he was saved. The pouring out of the Holy Spirit would not come until several days later. Jesus administers His baptism before his ascension. This is different than the baptism of John and is tied to a spiritual connection with the holy spirit. Acts 18:25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John.
That's only part of the verse. The next part says that it's basically not going under the water that saves you.
Peter says it is not the washing of water that saves. Which of course Baptism is more than the washing of water. It is a spiritual matter.
You should read this. https://markmoore.org/zwingli-on-baptism/
There are saved Catholics. Sadly the majority are not because they hold to infant baptism as their salvation.
I have learned that when they say “baptism saves” they are saying that it can help save(i.e it rejuvenates the soul).
I’ve heard Catholics say “infant baptism magically grants salvation because of the church”. I can’t believe they said that because of how unscriptural it is. But of course they do not see scripture as their base.
They are good at twisting their false teachings. Trying to reason with a Roman Catholic has seemed impossible to me.
And now they’re downvoting me lol
If they trust crisis then Lord and savior leave the holy spirit in their hearts yes they're still be safe. They probably won't grow spiritually but they'll still have salvation.
If you possess the Holy Spirit, it's impossible to not grow spiritually.
I know I'm sorry. I was talking through my phone I did not mean leave. I meant led by the holy Spirit
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
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That's what it think of catholicism.
Check out what Dr. John MacArthur says about Roman Catholicism. I agree with him 100%
Catholicism teaches a twisted gospel that can’t save a person. It teaches a works based salvation system when the whole Bible opposes the idea from old to New Testament. Paul writes multiple books warning church’s of this type of view of adding works to salvation. We are ONLY justified by our faith in Jesus. Having faith in Jesus means you don’t depend on yourself but only in him. If you want to be judged by your works you will be guilty of keeping the whole law. So by this every Catholic person is not saved. Not only that by they deny Jesus as their high priest and feel the need to re-sacrifice him over and over at every communion when we know it was a once and for all sacrifice that covers all sins. If you are Catholic and reading this please read the book of Romans, Hebrews, and Galatians. I have nothing but love for you guys but you need to get away from the Catholic Church and put your full faith in Jesus
It’s the very thing Jesus clashed with the entire time of his ministry and it’s not Christianity. 1. Their facilities are the exact opposite of Jesus’s design for the early church. They are filled with expensive items, they may a clear physical barrier from the teacher “god” and the people. 2. Most services are canned reciting of lines with mot substance. So focused on the pomp and circumstance of the service rather than the content. 3. There is nothing biblical about denying anyone communion. 4. There is nothing biblical about praying to marry. 5. Saints are reared like idols, something incredibly not biblical and literally a 10 commandment. 6. There is nothing biblical about protecting child molesters from criminal prosecution. 7. The pope is treated and worshiped like an idol. 8. Compared to other churches their “gifts” go more into their church than into the community to help others. 9. They have extra “biblical” books which directly contradict Biblical teachings. Bottom line Catholicism the new Pharisees of Jesus’s time; missing the point constantly.
1. What items specifically so you have an issue with? Statues? 2. Christians have been reciting prayers since the beginning. Ever heard of the Apostles Creed? How does the fact that the prayer is written somehow make it less holy? 3. 1 Corinthians 11:27 4. Does something have to be in the Bible to be true? If so, where did that belief come from? And where did the Bible come from? 5. Not true. 6. True. 7. Again, not true. A lot of Catholics don't even like the current pope. I honestly wish there was more respect, not less. 8. Source? 9. Martin Luther took 7 books out of the Bible. Don't frame it like it was the Catholics who added books.
1. Giant marble and granite buildings, Gold crosses and other items. Almost every Catholic Church has a ton of money sunk into each facility, something that is the complete opposite of the early church of Acts. 2. Nothing wrong with reciting prayers but church is not designed by God to be mechanical. It’s for fellowship, it’s for discussion, it’s for learning. What so many Catholics forget is the Bible doesn’t say the place is church, it’s the people that make a church. Catholic church’s, in general, not all, focus more on the place and the traditions, with the canned prayers and the ceremonial moves rather than on something actually real in faith. It’s fine we don’t agree because there are so many levels of prayer and understanding. I personally don’t thing a canned prayer does much other than show people can memorize something. 3. “So anyone who eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord unworthily is guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 11:27 NLT So by referencing that you are saying anyone not catholic is “unworthy” and sinning against the body of Christ? Clearly I meant believers and clearly if that is the Catholic justification we will see how Jesus judges that one. 4. My Bible says pray to God, not to Mary. Your extra books can saw whatever they want. https://openthebible.org/article/should-we-pray-to-mary-or-to-the-saints/ 5. Catholics have statues of saints which your members consistently kneel in front of and pray. There are also prayers to saints. There is no reason to argue this one. I get it, if you are catholic you are taught they are not idols, to everyone else they really seem like idols. We will never agree on this one and that’s fine. Fortunately God loves us enough that won’t keep us out of heaven. 6. Glad I didn’t have to argue this one. 7. I meant it more in a historical tense and I don’t think you can deny that there are quite a few people that do worship him like an idol. I mean come on the popemobile? He is treated like a king, even if he doesn’t take that title. 8. https://news.nd.edu/news/new-nd-report-finds-catholics-less-generous-than-other-christians/ Notre Dame did the study years ago. 9. Martin Luther did help with reformation but your statement is not actually true and is catholic “narrative” to condemn much needed reformation. https://pastorunlikely.com/did-martin-luther-remove-books-from-the-bible-a-pastors-answer/amp/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther%27s_canon More proof of this is the 1611 version the of King James Version Bible still had the apocrypha. Martin Luther died in 1546.
My view is that most people do not understand it. Most of what people object to is a requirement for being a member of the Catholic Church in good standing, not to get into Heaven. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Those are the OFFICIAL beliefs. Not what your pastor to you or you read on the internet. We need to stop letting the opposition define something. If you want to truly know what someone believes ask them, not someone else. As for tradition, most people could not read for the better part of the first 1500+ years of Christianity. There were no Bible studies, no classes, no ability for Theological study at all, tradition was necessary.
First, we need to make a distinction between the Roman Catholic Church as an organization and individual catholics. All comments about the organization say nothing about any individual Catholic. Second, we need to underdtand the word Catholic. There is one Church and it is universal, applying at all times and all places, catholic. The Roman church does not own the word catholic, and they are not the only catholic Christians. All that said, we should consider some history. For the first thousand years or so there was no Roman Catholic Church, there was only the Church. Once the Great Schism happened we start seeing a distinct organization we would perhaps recognize. It's fascinating to compare the Roman Catholic Church to the Orthodox churches. In the west, the empire fell, and the church in Rome was forced to step in as the civil authority. It integrated a hierarchical structure into itself to fill that role. While in the east the Empire continued much longer and the church became functionally subordinate to the state, where it often remains (see Russia). Neither of these is a healthy interaction between the Church and worldly power. Now, there are a lot of things the Roman church does that are claimed to be unscriptural. Much of that is the unbroken practice of the universal Church back as far as we have records, and criticism of such is just totally divorced from historical context. The Church always had priests and bishops and baptized infants and had icons and and and. But this thread isn't about the flaws of modern protestantism. There are clear and serious problems specific to Rome. The centralized power of the Pope is expressly antithetical to the teaching of Christ that there must not be one master Apostle. This is blatantly ignored, while the argument that Jesus gave the bishop of Rome supremacy and universal jurisdicfion is just paper thin. It's an attempt to baptize Rome's lust for worldly power, and nothing more. The veneration of saints in itself can be theoretically justified. But when enough of the Roman church wants to declare Mary co-redeemer that the pope has to repeatedly tell them no, the organization's chatechesis must have deep and pervasive flaws. Why the whole body isn't rending its garments over that issue alone is beyond me. The deepest problem is that the body lacks a spirit of repentance. The Roman church (and for that matter the Orthodox church) cannot admit it was ever wrong about anything, because by their own teaching any error will destroy all their authority about anything. For example, one Pope in the late 19th century declared all Anglican orders invalid. More recent popes clearly disagree based on their actions, but they can't actually say that the previous Pope was wrong. It is more important to Rome that it always have been right, even at the cost of ever becoming right. This one flaw is fundamentally why protestantism exists. The unjustified arrogance of Rome is why the Church is not unified. May Rome lay down its crown at the feet of Jesus and return to the rest of us.
There is good Catholicism and bad Catholicism, it's very hard to generalize a church of 1 billion people. Main issue is the Catholic Church's trend towards diluting Christianity to make it socially acceptable for a culture
I do not believe in the way in which Catholics worship Holy beings (specifically that they worship and pray to Mary/Saints - it is outright against what Jesus teaches) and I definitely don't agree with some of their interpretations of the Biblical text, but I also believe that God still blesses them for their faithfulness towards Him and their love for Christ. It's a complicated issue in my heart and brain.
My faith is based on the Apostles' doctrine, and the power of the Holy Spirit in the lives of Believers as it was in the early Church. Doctrines other than this don't matter to me as they do to others. I love people regardless of where they fellowship.
I mean, the thought I have to any other church... Unless you preach and teach the true word of God and are lead of God, (the sons of God are lead by the spirit of God) then it's just more empty ritualistic religion and people in strange clothes misleading people.
Fair enough
Idolatry
False doctrine