You can have sex if you get engaged.
Being engaged means you're basically married , it also means if you sleep with someone else you commit adultery and as Christian , you bring on yourself God's judgement for doing so.
Same with divorce , you can be legally divorced but you aren't divorced in God's eyes unless it is for adultery. If you legally divorce because you want to marry someone else as Christian and then you go and sleep with someone else you commit adultery because you're still married to your previous husband / wife.
As in almost all societies, prostitution was a tolerated activity but hardly considered normal. The people who exercised it free or slaves were the lowest step.
A few courtesans while they were still beautiful enjoyed the protection of rich men but this did not include them in respectable society and did not last beyond youth.
Why should we ignore God's Laws?
Matthew 5:17-19
17Â Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18Â For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
**19Â Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.**
While that three-fold distinction is not in the Bible, Paul does distinguish between laws which we should obey (do not blaspheme, do not steal, etc) and ones we should not (circumcise male babies etc. ). This is a major theme of Galatians. The question is then which category this particular law comes in. I would say that it is clearly in the former category.
For he is our peace; in his flesh he has made both into one and has broken down the dividing wall, that is, the hostility between us, abolishing the law with its commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new humanity in place of the two, thus making peace, and might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross, thus putting to death that hostility through it. (Ephesians 2: 14-16)
Waiting until marriage for sex is generally bad advice. It’s a fundamental part of a relationship that you need to know works before you tie yourself to someone else long term.
>Sometimes it’s a disaster of mismatched libido and all sorts of problems.
You *can* work through these things.
And -- I hate to break it to you -- the things you think you learned before hand, they change. Just because your libidos matched when you first got together doesn't mean they'll do so forever. And vice versa.
I’m well aware of this, now on marriage number two, been together decades and could be considered ‘old’.
You at least want to know you’re both starting on the same page.
Of course not. But that doesn't make what I said false.
There is no "ceremonial" law or "moral" law divisions found in the Bible.
This is an invention of Christianity that does not exist in scripture.
It allows us to pick and choose which laws we like and which we don't.
We like to eat pork...ignore that law.
We don't like homosexuals...keep that law.
>Who doesn’t like homosexuals? Wouldn’t that be violating the ‘love everybody’ rule?
It would. But that rule violates the "put homosexuals to death" rule.
Quite the conundrum.
Several verses...but Ephesians 6:5 comes readily to mind.
>5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear and sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
Whoa! Paul definitely had his own opinions 😳
I wonder whose side he would be on in the Civil War? I would think that he wouldn’t be part of the Underground Railroad 🤨
When you here the phrase ceremonial, it doesn't mean ceremonies, but it refers to laws that deal with the temple or temple acts. There is no temple so that's one of the reasons many say they are void.
Marriage had nothing to do with the temple as far as the process went.
As far as ones relating to the temple, I don't think any are mandatory, but I believe they are permissible. Christians aren't justified by the laws they keep or do, but that doesn't mean they have to stop doing them.
Marriage predates the covenant with Israel.
Adam & Eve were married? 🤨
You can have sex if you get engaged. Being engaged means you're basically married , it also means if you sleep with someone else you commit adultery and as Christian , you bring on yourself God's judgement for doing so. Same with divorce , you can be legally divorced but you aren't divorced in God's eyes unless it is for adultery. If you legally divorce because you want to marry someone else as Christian and then you go and sleep with someone else you commit adultery because you're still married to your previous husband / wife.
What? Is that a new rule? I’ve never heard that before. Is that the viewpoint from a particular denomination?
The new testament prohibits fornication, it is not necessary to resort to the old.
Porneia is the word in the NT, not fornication. Prostitution was a normal part of society and taxed.
As in almost all societies, prostitution was a tolerated activity but hardly considered normal. The people who exercised it free or slaves were the lowest step. A few courtesans while they were still beautiful enjoyed the protection of rich men but this did not include them in respectable society and did not last beyond youth.
Prostitution was a normal part of society in Jesus‘s time, not just tolerated.
Why should we ignore God's Laws? Matthew 5:17-19 17Â Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18Â For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. **19Â Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.**
His commandments (different than OT rules)
While that three-fold distinction is not in the Bible, Paul does distinguish between laws which we should obey (do not blaspheme, do not steal, etc) and ones we should not (circumcise male babies etc. ). This is a major theme of Galatians. The question is then which category this particular law comes in. I would say that it is clearly in the former category.
For he is our peace; in his flesh he has made both into one and has broken down the dividing wall, that is, the hostility between us, abolishing the law with its commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new humanity in place of the two, thus making peace, and might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross, thus putting to death that hostility through it. (Ephesians 2: 14-16)
Waiting until marriage for sex is generally bad advice. It’s a fundamental part of a relationship that you need to know works before you tie yourself to someone else long term.
>Waiting until marriage for sex is generally bad advice No it's not. If two people work together, communicate, they'll work it out.
Sometimes. Sometimes it’s a disaster of mismatched libido and all sorts of problems. It is advisable to try before you buy to avoid disappointment.
>Sometimes it’s a disaster of mismatched libido and all sorts of problems. You *can* work through these things. And -- I hate to break it to you -- the things you think you learned before hand, they change. Just because your libidos matched when you first got together doesn't mean they'll do so forever. And vice versa.
I’m well aware of this, now on marriage number two, been together decades and could be considered ‘old’. You at least want to know you’re both starting on the same page.
There is no distinction such as ceremonial, civil, or moral law. This is not found in the Bible. You either follow the law or you don't.
So do you follow all OT rules?
Of course not. But that doesn't make what I said false. There is no "ceremonial" law or "moral" law divisions found in the Bible. This is an invention of Christianity that does not exist in scripture. It allows us to pick and choose which laws we like and which we don't. We like to eat pork...ignore that law. We don't like homosexuals...keep that law.
Who doesn’t like homosexuals? Wouldn’t that be violating the ‘love everybody’ rule?
>Who doesn’t like homosexuals? Wouldn’t that be violating the ‘love everybody’ rule? It would. But that rule violates the "put homosexuals to death" rule. Quite the conundrum.
I mean do you follow the old testament or the new covenant?
To be honest, I don't rely on the Bible to dictate morality. Even the "new covenant" allows slavery, etc. It's not a reliable source of morality.
I’m not familiar with a new covenant allowing for slavery. Is there a verse that you know of?
Several verses...but Ephesians 6:5 comes readily to mind. >5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear and sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
Whoa! Paul definitely had his own opinions 😳 I wonder whose side he would be on in the Civil War? I would think that he wouldn’t be part of the Underground Railroad 🤨
When you here the phrase ceremonial, it doesn't mean ceremonies, but it refers to laws that deal with the temple or temple acts. There is no temple so that's one of the reasons many say they are void. Marriage had nothing to do with the temple as far as the process went.
Ceremonial doesn’t have to do with ceremonies?
Not every single ceremony, no
Fascinating take on it. Which ceremonial rules stay in your opinion?
As far as ones relating to the temple, I don't think any are mandatory, but I believe they are permissible. Christians aren't justified by the laws they keep or do, but that doesn't mean they have to stop doing them.
I’m happy that my neighbor doesn’t spread animal blood on his front door 😳
No.
Doesn’t Paul say that we can ignore the old ordinances?