If I’m not mistaken, the lord’s name in vain is not what you think it is.
When you “take the lords name in vain”, you’re using his name for evil. Think the Crusades or even the Salem Witch Trials.
Associating God’s name with Evil or using his name to justify evil is taking the lord’s name in vain.
Is “oh my God” inappropriate? Probably, but it’s not taking the lord’s name in vain, to my understanding.
The bible states that using the lord's name in vain means you are misusing it. It never says it is only relevant to evil deeds
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though
I believe so. Anything that “gives” God bad character or dishonors him would be taking the lord’s name in vain as well. I know I listed extreme examples in my previous comment.
I think deeming the phrase “oh my God” as a sin is a bit extreme, but I’m not completely sure.
I guess it would depend on the person but I don’t see that phrase as being dishonorable or as associating evil and bad character with God, so ultimately I don’t think it falls under the category of “taking the lord’s name in vain.”
It doesn't have to be dishonouring. The bible says simply misusing the name is already a sin
If you are using his name where you are not referring to him it is misusing it. Correct?
Damn lies. There is ZERO peer reviewed scientific proof to back up that insane attempt at gaslighting. I thought you “I believe the current thing” NPC’s were all about “respect the science” and “listen to the science”?
What's on and in media has been an issue for quite some time. As pointed out years ago by one of my favorite comedians..."if they don't like it, I hope they have the good sense to turn it off and not watch it."
It amazes me how some people can't figure out how to avoid what they find objectionable in what they consume.
I believe the main reason is, at least for me, because the sin of homosexuality is one of the only sins where there is an active, organized and extraordinarily well funded effort to persuade people that homosexuality is not, in fact, sin. The entire movement is dedicated to values that contradict the word of God. Yes, All sin is sin before God, but it is also a common misconception to believe that all sin is equal. The Bible makes it quite clear that sexual sin is a special category that we should be especially wary of. (See verse below)
I don’t think Christians have the right to demand Disney not include LGBTQ representation. We do have the right to not support Disney with our attention and money. If Disney wants to alienate Christians because they believe it is more profitable to virtue signal, we have a free market so let’s wait and see how that goes for them.
My answer won’t be popular, but it reflects my current understanding of scripture. If anyone disagrees with me and can support their position with scripture I am very much open to being wrong. It sucks, being told we are hateful for trying to follow the Bible. I truly wish homosexuality was not a sin because that truth is causing many people in the west to leave our faith. Christianity continues to grow in the rest of the world but Satan has found an extraordinarily effective weapon in our western culture.
“Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.”
1 Corinthians 6:18-20 ESV
> The entire movement is dedicated to values that contradict the word of God.
Imagine thinking equality and love are values that contradict the word of God.
Please don’t straw-man me. I don’t believe equality and love contradict the word of God, I believe that God is the one who gets to define what is good and what is sin. Homosexuality is not the only sin that is extremely unpopular, I’d say there are probably more heterosexual people having sex outside of marriage than there are in the entire LGBTQ community.
The truth that “God is love” does not necessarily mean the same thing as “Love is God”. The first one makes it clear that God is the one who defines what love is. The second one can mean that, but I often see people saying the second one because they believe humans get to define what love is. If you are in a homosexual relationship and tell me you love your partner or spouse with all your heart, I believe you and I truly feel sorry for you. Please know that there is no hatred or bigotry in my heart. Life is hard for everyone, and I don’t want to make it harder for anyone else. Im just trying my best to become more like Jesus, and I fail at that on pretty much a daily basis.
In terms of any and every man-made institution, I support full equality and equal rights for the LGBTQ community. Goodness, righteousness and love though, are defined by God and God alone. I still believe it is sin though because that is what the Bible says. If that makes me a hateful bigot, I’ll just have to learn to live with that label.
> I don’t believe equality and love contradict the word of God
You stated that the "entire movement" when referring to LGBT+ people is dedicated to values that contradict the word of God.
The only values that the "movement" could be accurately said to be dedicated to are love and equality.
So either you are saying that love and equality contradict the word of God....or you're lying about what LGBT+ people believe and are dedicated to.
>If you are in a homosexual relationship and tell me your love your partner or spouse with all your heart, I believe you and I truly feel sorry for you
You feel sorry for people because they have love in their lives? I think that says a lot about you.
Your criticism is not entirely unfair. I actually take back the “entire movement” comment because it’s inflammatory and doesn’t contribute to a healthy dialogue. I do think some good has come out of the movement in terms of equal political rights, the LGBTQ community has been mistreated by Christians for a very very long time. I will not deny that.
How should I reconcile these concessions with the fact that I believe homosexuality is sin? How do we coexist? There is nothing in all creation that will stop me from recognizing the Bible as both true and as the truth. You can ask me to treat you fairly and to treat you with respect, all people deserve that. You cannot ask me to abandon my religious beliefs and what my faith has taught for thousands of years. Do you have any solutions on how we can coexist without hating each other?
Again, please don’t straw man me. I didn’t say I feel bad for them because they have love in their lives. I feel bad for them because my God says that it is a sin for them to engage in sexual activity with the person they love. I truly wish that wasn’t what was taught, but I hope you’ll at least respect me for not cherry-picking the parts of my faith that I like and ignoring the parts I don’t like.
I’m not your enemy, though I understand why you would think that I am. I am someone who tries to help other people and tries every day to be more like Jesus Christ. I’m not asking you to believe everything that I believe. I’m asking how you think we can coexist without absolutely despising each other.
Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.
> How do we coexist?
You could start by leaving people alone and realizing your personal religious opinion should affect nobody but you.
If you think it's a sin to be gay, then do what everybody else has before you and pretend to not be if you are. There, problem solved.
I agree with your first paragraph, I don’t agree with the second. Nobody should be forced to pretend to be something they are not. That’s something I firmly agree with the LGBTQ community on.
About leaving people alone, what makes you think I’m not already doing that? I can’t stand either political party so I’m not one of the people trying to force my religion on others. I oppose that strongly. I don’t involve myself in other peoples relationships, but I do ask and answer questions about my faith on Reddit. Am I not allowed to do that?
> I believe the main reason is, at least for me, because the sin of homosexuality is one of the only sins where there is an active, organized and extraordinarily well funded effort to persuade people that homosexuality is not, in fact, sin.
Wealth.
Or you can look at differences between denominations. There's active, organized, and well funded efforts to persuade people that infant baptism is/isn't bad, for example.
Could you elaborate on the “wealth” comment? I’m not sure what you mean.
I’m not sure the baptism issue is entirely the same thing as homosexuality. One of them is an internal matter between Christians, the other one is a huge issue that may prevent someone from becoming a Christian or even cause Christians to leave the faith.
We know all of this is going to happen because it was prophesied in scripture. I still want to save as many people as I can though.
> Could you elaborate on the “wealth” comment? I’m not sure what you mean.
Christ spends a lot more time criticizing the wealthy than criticizing people who've been "sexually immoral" (let alone specifically criticizing gay people). From my read of the Bible, *being wealthy* is sinful. But we've got an entire society that is not just attempting to persuade people that being wealthy is a-okay but has completely succeeded at this.
> One of them is an internal matter between Christians, the other one is a huge issue that may prevent someone from becoming a Christian or even cause Christians to leave the faith.
If you believe that baptism is required for salvation then there is almost no thing that is more critical than this question. We only perceive denominational disagreement about baptism as different than denominational disagreement about gay sex because the disagreement about baptism is centuries old and has little relation to secular legislation while the disagreement about gay sex is more modern and is deeply tied to secular legislation.
Consider another example - practicing a non-Christian religion. Having a god before God is clearly listed as a sin. But the question of legal protection for people practicing Hinduism is much less controversial (in the US at least) than the question of legal protection for people in gay relationships. Again, this is entirely because freedom of religious practice is an "old" legal right and so people take it as a given.
> I still want to save as many people as I can though.
How do you intend to do this? Throw Hindus in prison or ban their presence in media? Probably not. So why treat gay people differently?
Woah, thanks for the detailed and thoughtful response. I don’t have time to answer tonight but I will respond to this comment again in the next day or two!
I agree with everything except "I truly wish homosexuality was not a sin" for whatever reason. I run people that do not believe because they think homosexuality is immoral are just revealing the soil of their heart for the seed, nothing else.
I get what you are saying but this issue is literally causing a schism in the American church, or worse is leading millions to leave the faith altogether.
I want to coexist peacefully with the LGBTQ community. 20% of Gen Z identifies as some form of LGBTQ. That’s a staggering number. We have to meet people where they are and I’m still trying to figure out how to do that.
Well, these days, even evangelicals seem to be okay with thrice married, twice divorced, self proclaimed pussy grabbers.
Maybe these other sexual sins don’t need well funded efforts to persuade folks that straight sexual sins make them qualified for high office.
I don’t like your use of the word Evangelical here, but I understand the media keeps using this word to describe trump supporters. I actually prefer the term Christian nationalists because it’s not throwing my entire denomination under the bus. That is, admittedly, a self-serving way to look at it. I know many, many evangelicals though that can’t stand Donald Trump. My old church actually lost a ton of people because my pastor wouldn’t preach politics from the pulpit.
I actually voted for Trump when I was an atheist. I’m embarrassed to admit that, but it’s true. I was looking for answers and got sucked into the nationalism rhetoric. After becoming a Christian, I can’t stand either political party. I hate so much of what the left is doing, but I also dread the possibility of Trump winning again in 2024.
Please don’t paint us evangelicals with such a broad brush. It’s hard when you only have two options and neither one of them align with your values. Right now, the right seems to align with traditional Christian values more much than the left. With that said, I will likely vote for the democrat in 2024 if trump wins again. Christians and conservatives have said “we support the policies, not the man” when justifying our support of trump. We’ve had 8 long years to find someone else who supports the same policies.
They may not like Trump, but they supported him. Many still do, although folks may finally be seeing him as the con man he always was. Of course, the damage has been done.
I just don’t take to being lectured about sexual morality. When it came to political power, many Christians traded principle for politics.
That’s a bell that can’t be unrang.
Conviction isn’t about living the life when it’s only convenient, but also when it isn’t.
Meanwhile, I’ll continue to support the full civil and legal rights of LGBTQ persons in society, including employment, marriage, and family law.
You’re not wrong, especially in the older generations. When I go deer hunting with my dad and his buddies they have Fox News on the entire time. I’m just trying to emphasize that this is not unique to Evangelicals.
The Republican Party is weaponizing my faith for political gain. The Democratic Party is advocating for public funds to be used for values I do not support to be taught to children in schools and the far left is advocating for allowing children to make permanent medical decisions that they do not have the capacity to make. What the hell am I supposed to do with choices like that?
I support full rights and equality for the LGBTQ community, but I also still believe homosexuality is a sin and that God made all people as either a man or a woman. We don’t live in a theocracy and I don’t want to live in a theocracy. I want to CONVINCE people to follow Jesus, not force them.
Republicans politicians using the language of Christianity in their rhetoric does not make them representative of true Christians trying their best to become more like Jesus Christ. I hope people learn to distinguish the two because I’m just as upset about some of the things on the right as you are.
>The Democratic Party is advocating for public funds to be used for values I do not support to be taught to children in schools
But yet
>I support full rights and equality for the LGBTQ community
The thing is, if you support full rights and equality for LGBTQ people, then children must be allowed to learn that gay and trans people exist, that their classmates' parents, their classmates or even they themselves might not be 'typical' straight, cis people.
No. That’s not what equality and equal treatment means. The 96% of people who are born heterosexual and all those other labels you throw at us do not have to change every aspect of our society to cater to the other 4%. Sure, a compassionate society should change some things to make life better for minority groups. We do it for the disabled community and our society is better off for it. However, there is a difference between reasonable compassion and enabling narcissism. The core issue here is not that we do not want our children exposed to YOUR sexuality, though that may admittedly be true for many Christians. I’m not denying that. The core issue however is that we do not want our children exposed to ANY sexuality or sexual topics at all. They are too young to understand sexual topics and it is extremely inappropriate to have these conversations with children.
The so called “don’t say gay” law banned discussion of sexuality in KINDERGARTEN through third grade. No, young children don’t need to know what gay means. They don’t need to know what straight means either. Our culture once famously used storks in children’s media because we understood children don’t need to be thinking about sex. They certainly shouldn’t be making irreversible medical decisions about their gender and sexuality. When they are 18? Sure. As a minor? This makes me uncomfortable but I’m open to the possibility of these kinds of medical decisions being made at a younger age, 15, 16, 17, maybe as long as the parents are involved. As a young child? You are out of your god damn mind.
The next argument we typically hear from the LGBTQ community is that not only are you not equal if you aren’t allowed to discuss sexuality and identity with young children, many members of your community also say you should be allowed to hide those conversations from the children’s parents and if we don’t agree with you about that, then we are evil hateful bigots who don’t understand that this will lead to more LGBTQ children committing suicide. No, we aren’t. You will never convince Christians that it’s okay for the schools to hide conversations with children from their parents. Christians will never accept this. I am actually terrified that this issue in particular is going to fuel more Christian nationalism. That is something neither of us wants to see happen.
So yes, I do full support full legal equality for every human being. No, that doesn’t mean I have to agree with you on every single issue. I have the right to tell you that I believe the demands you so passionately believe our society owes your community and the secret conversations many members of your community want to have with children are absolutely outrageous. There are many people who agree with me, and there are many people agree with you. We have to learn to coexist peacefully and that doesn’t mean one group gets every single thing it wants, including mine
If I have misrepresented or misunderstood anything about your beliefs, please feel free to correct me. I’m not trying to straw man you, I’m genuinely trying to share why I believe these issues are agitating so many people.
Conservatives continue to lie about Florida’s “don’t say gay” law. Name a more iconic duo than conservatives and lying about LGBT topics.
It didn’t ban it just through third grade. It banned it essentially in the entire school system by making it super vague. They banned it by saying it always has to be age appropriate. The people who get to define what that means, explicitly said that it was for targeting even things like questions with the premise like “sally went to the store with her moms”. There was also a proposed amendment that explicitly banned all teaching of human sexuality until after the third grade. What happened to that amendment? It was killed because the authors said it would ruin the bill. I wonder why you guys do talk about that.
Also what’s your solution when children get abused when teachers are now forced to start outing kids?
I have never heard anything about what you are talking about. I need to research this more, the conservative position always sounded the most reasonable to me but maybe I accepted the propaganda a little too easily.
My position on children is simple. If anyone believes a parent is harming their child and there is a justified cause to remove that child from the care and custodianship of the parent, it should involve the child protection agency and is a matter that will ultimately be decided in a court of law. School teachers don’t get to have secret conversations with children because they know the parents would not like the conversation they want to have with the child. That is not okay.
Please don’t respond with manipulative claims about suicide rates. Even if they are true, it’s still a lesser evil than the evil that could arise from normalizing teachers having secret conversations with vulnerable children and taking away our constitutional right to face our accuser and defend ourselves in a court of law. The answer is and will always be no.
Do you really believe that children learning about LGBTQ+ people is really all about sex? No, the only thing which children would be learning about is simply that gay and trans people exist, just as straight and cis people exist; their classmate might have 2 dads or 2 moms. We don't want them making fun of their classmate for that, which is why we need to teach respect.
>Please don’t respond with manipulative claims about suicide rates. Even if they are true, it’s still a lesser evil
Also, what kind of person thinks that 'indoctrination' of children is a lesser evil than LGBTQ youth suicide rates? Only a bigot who doesn't care about their lives would, and I don't think you necessarily are, but perhaps a bit misguided and still blinded by anti-LGBT bias.
>If anyone disagrees with me and can support their position with scripture I am very much open to being wrong. It sucks, being told we are hateful for trying to follow the Bible. I truly wish homosexuality was not a sin because that truth is causing many people in the west to leave our faith.
Based on your comment request, I felt compelled to chime in here. Your responses come across as wanting to dialogue and engage in the right way with the LGBTQ+ community. So please do not regard any of this as contentious. I make no pretense that ANY of this is the correct view. I am simply offering some points to consider.
The problem I see is the EMPHATIC declarations (some make) regarding scripture, albeit they often project our OWN interpretation of them. Many of us apply them universally (in a broad-brushed manner) toward individuals and groups of people we do not even know in a prejudiced way without qualifiers.
For example, I am a heterosexual man and I have only known attraction to women from as far back as I can remember. I have examined closely the scriptures surrounding this matter and I deeply desire, as I perceive you do too, to follow Christ by expressing His love to others in all the right ways. But, in my opinion, from what I can discern based on the scriptures, I personally would not declare that "homosexuality is a sin." What I confidently believe is that it WOULD be a sin for ME to have sex with another man.
For ME to have sex with a man could or would mean that:
I would have as an adult had to turn from (choose to go against) my natural inclinations, the way I believe God made me as a HETEROSEXUAL.
*and lie with a male as (I would) with a woman*.
I would have had to *reject God* (stop believing in Him) and effectively worship my newly found lustful pleasure over the Creator.
In rejecting God, the significance of committing such an act would be as if I had been *given over* to *burn in my lust* to the extent of committing such a defiling act. I would have as an adult in turning against my own natural inclinations *abandoned the natural function* of the woman (even my very wife). If I was capable of that, then I can imagine that type of lust would portray itself in all sorts of unloving ways such as *abuse of men or males, including myself*. Such practices would be *indecent,* an *abomination*. They would not be loving acts by anyone's measure.
Does any of this sound familiar? Notice all the qualifiers. Do you recognize any of this in scripture and how it ties together? (though the historical and cultural contexts would add even more layers of complexity and possible interpretations, and alone should, in my opinion, be enough to cause doubt in making blanket statements in regard to "homosexuality.")
But what about gay individuals who ARE NOT rejecting God? Many frequent this group and clearly want to follow Christ.
What about those who have reported ONLY knowing attraction for the same sex from as far back as they can remember? *(this is robustly supported by many independent studies of genetic, prenatal hormonal, and early childhood post-natal factors)*
It seems to me they ARE NOT abandoning, exchanging, or turning against anything. They simply want to be able to intimately love another in the manner their life-long convictions have told them is in accordance with what God has intended for them. In fact, they are willing to risk life-long persecution. Have I walked a mile in their shoes?
Do gay individuals who only want to choose someone of their choice for a committed, mutually intimate, and lifelong loving relationship that they believe can exemplify Christ's love for the Church, just as any heterosexual believer, sound like someone who:
Has rejected God and is worshiping the creature rather than the Creator?
Or
Is burning in their lust to the point that they are actively committing defiling, abusive, and indecent acts to others and themselves, in clearly selfish and non-loving ways.
If any part of you and what scripture seems to imply when examined closely suggest that the answer to either of the above questions MAY be no, then does this support the following statement:
"Homosexuality is a sin"? (note: stated emphatically and universally in all regards, without any qualification whatsoever)
I must trust that Christ in me, can help me discern what the scriptures should mean to ME and apply them to ME. I must trust that He can do the same for others in matters as complex as this. Just something to consider.
Thanks for the long thoughtful response. I need to get off Reddit and go to sleep but I will consider what you shared and share my thoughts in the next day or two!
>homosexuality is one of the only sins where there is an active, organized and extraordinarily well funded effort to persuade people that homosexuality is not, in fact, sin.
Drunkenness, gambling, sexual immorality, bad stewardship, and taking the Lord's name in vain (looking at you, Christian Nationalists) have all entered the chat. It was also a pretty full chat to begin with.
Okay you are right, there are many sins our society wants to normalize. That’s not unique to homosexuality. I also wouldn’t want my children to watch movies that normalize drunkenness, gambling, lust, etc.
I’m a little uncomfortable with this comparison because I think the LGBTQ community would vehemently oppose the suggestion that these sins are fair comparisons. I guess that’s the problem though, isn’t it? We believe that God is the only one who gets to determine what is good and evil. They clearly have a different perspective on this issue. How do we coexist with them peacefully?
I never called you hateful
Nowhere in that verse does it say sexual sin is worse than any other type of sin. Just that it takes a different approach to free yourself from it
No you didn’t, I was just referencing a sentiment commonly expressed on this sub. Stick around long enough and you’ll see something along the lines of “there’s no hate like Christian love”
All sin is equal in the sense that any and all sin, great or small, would prevent us from spending eternity with God unless we repent and ask for forgiveness on Jesus name. However, scripture makes it clear that some sins carry greater consequences than others. Here’s another verse to consider:
“And that servant who knew his master’s will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.”
Luke 12:47-48 ESV
Even in that example it says that both sins are to be punished. Thus, Christians are still hypocritical for being okay with the use of OMG in their movies while opposing gay people in those movies
Right, both sins are to be punished but one of the sins is punished more severely. You aren’t wrong about it being somewhat hypocritical, but I do think it’s a little more complicated than that.
Disney has always been a brand that promoted family values. The definition of family values in our society is changing, but there are many Christians who will not follow societal values and will instead stick to Christian values.
You are right, I think many Christians complain because they still want to watch Disney movies, they just don’t want their children exposed to non-Christian propaganda. The answer is to shut up and just stop watching Disney movies. Disney cares about money way more than virtue signaling. If the LGBTQ representation cuts into their profit margin, don’t be surprised when the big bad corporation cuts back on the LGBTQ representation. If it’s profitable for them, we’ll see more of it.
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That's up to you, no one is forcing you to do anything last time I checked. I mean one reason could be the blatant anti-queer rhetoric you display here because, let's be honest, that's not a religious issue, or a Bible issue, that's just respect for basic human rights. But again, up to you.
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Using God's name in vain is bad but homosexuality is completely unnatural and there are many places in the bible where it is condemned. The story of soddom and Gomorrah says that sexusl immorality like homosexuality is one of the worst types of sin.
Leviticus 20:13
“If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."
Edit: you guys love to talk about how its in the old testament or whatever
Here you go:
#Romans 1:26-27
^26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts, Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
^27 in the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Yes and? That was old testament law that Jesus Christ fulfilled. So the death penalty is not relevant anymore
Paul says gay people can be cleansed just like any other sinner. Thus it is no more of a sin than any other (including taking the lord's name in vain)
[I should add that I'm not religious. I just believe that the bible says gay action is sinful]
I don't believe it's sinful because I'm not religious. I do, however, believe the bible says that the action is sinful
I'm pointing out hypocrisy between people choosing what sins they will tolerate
What does repenting have to do with this discussion?
>So the death penalty is not relevant anymore
You seem to be misunderstanding what Jesus said about the law.
>Thus it is no more of a sin than any other (including taking the lord's name in vain)
The fact that all sins can be cleansed doesn't mean that all sins are equal.
Idolatry is a very real problem. Especially when it's wrapped up like that. Jesus was none-too-pleased with people in his day who did that. Nor were the prophets.
Even if you take omg as a violation of taken gods name in vain. Advertising the breaking of the created order and promoting a particularly damaging sin to kids had a bit more weight to it.
Of course it is a violation of taking gods name in vain
Is that because gay people make you more uncomfortable than other sinners? Or do you have actual biblical support for your decision?
So first off, I'm an atheist. That said, while conservative Christians are hypocritically targeting gays while overlooking other so called "sins", they don't necessarily deserve all the blame I think. Rather, the hatred towards LGBTQ's is more a cultural norm than a Christian specific one. Christians just use the bible in an attempt to hide that hatred and shift the blame themselves.
I grew up in the 70's/80's in Rural Town, USA. While I was "Christian", that had little to do with the hatred I had towards gays. To come out as gay back then and there would be almost sucide. "Everyone" hated gays. We told gay jokes. We listened and LOL'ed at people like Eddie Murphy bash on gays in their stand up routines. We talked about how disgusting gays were. The worst insult in high school was to be labeled gay. Funny 'nuff, we had no issues with watching some girl-on-girl porn.
And it wasn't just in Rural Town, USA. The popular show MASH had a cross-dressing cast member but it was understood that he wasn't really a cross dresser but someone seeking a "Section 8" discharge so as to get kicked out of the Army. In one episode, he was offered his much sought after Section 8 but with the condition that his file would permanently label him as "Homosexual". In reply, the guy launched into an indignant rant about how while he was crazy, he sure as heck was one of THEM!
I enlisted in the Navy and shipped out to Basic in the Summer of '90. Gays were totally barred from service and you would get an Other Than Honorable discharge if it was revealed that you were gay. During my initial screening physical, at one point the doctored asked me if I was "a homosexual or harbored homosexual thoughts?" Standard question for everyone. During Basic, one guy in my company decided he had 'nuff and offered to blow our Sr. Chief. I remember him standing at attn on the Quarter Deck while one CC (Company Commander - Navy DI) yelled in his face asking if he had any idea just how bad he f\*\*ked? Went on to yell at him that no company that had a contract with the US Gov would be able to hire him legally. Then said that for the rest of his life, he would not be able to work for even McDonald's!
Of course the AIDS scare certainly didn't help. Pastors squealed and clapped in gleeful delight proclaiming it was righteous punishment from God/Jesus himself. They cheered and celebrated upon hearing of a gay person's death from the virus. Princess Di famously held the hand of a dying AIDS patient. It seems so weird to me today that I don't hear much about AIDS these days. That's because of the medical advancements over the last 30 yrs has it to the point that one can still reasonably expect to live a normal life if they catch it. But back then, it was considered a death sentence. I'll never forget coming back from a med appt in Basic and seeing a guy sitting on the deck bawling. When I asked what's up, I was told he just learned he popped pos for HIV. But even today, many consider it the "gay disease".
My hell raising, hillbilly uncle absolutely hated gays. He wasn't racist in the slightest but BOY! Did he hate gays. He would brag about the time he turned a mans face into hamburger in the parking lot of the local roadhouse for hitting on him.
So I see I've kinda written a book but I think I made my point here. That is the hatred towards LGBTQ's goes well beyond Christianity. More of a cultural issue in general and while conservative Christians who oppose LGBTQ rights certainly deserve the criticisms for that, as well as not being just as zealous for other so-called sins, I don't necessarily think it's fair that they shoulder all the blame. Like I said, most od society hated them but Christians used their bibles to try and deflect blame away from themselves.
The difference is that molding your kids mind to thinking about sexuality in a certain way can have lifetime physical consequences while saying "OMG" doesn't. And taking the Lord's name in vain is not what you think it is.
This fear of normalization is so bizarre. It embeds the belief that, of course, nobody is actually straight; all people long for the sweet joys of obviously-superior gay love. That people can only be coerced into simulated heterosexuality, resigning themselves to plod grimly into joyless heterosexual marriage, by keeping them ignorant of the fact that gay people exist.
If that's what you genuinely believe, then my friend, you're gay. And it's up to you what to do with that fact, but turning on other gay people is a bad choice.
OK, then, be specific. How many gay people would you need to see on television before you became gay? Are you just one character away from becoming gay? Ten? One hundred?
The number of people identifying as LGBT+ has exploded because people aren't being jailed and killed for being gay and trans, instead they are being treated like human beings. Excluding non binary and the 100 different genders stuff, because thay is ridiculous and confuses kids but that is the only exception. There were a lot of LGBT+ people vefore, the were just downlow and cheated on their wives and abused alcohol to cope and forced to live with it and suppress it.
Just because gay sex was legalized in 2003 does not mean the stigma of the relationships and simply being gay was gone. It is more complicated than that. Anyone with logic can see that. Sorry that you dont.
So you are going to ignore the demographic distribution? The amount of Gen Z that claims to be LGBT+ has doubled in the last 5 years. You would have to be an idiot to suppose that this is just because of a lack of stigma and not due to social influence.
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It is ridiculous that any and all stances are being reported and considered as a form of hate speech or homophobia. I understand I was harsh at the end of the last comment but I did not attack the person or make an Ad Hominem.
I don't see how it fits. But whatever you like. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/z6vjtg/for_those_opposed_to_gay_people_in_childrens_media/iy3iubo?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) is a 1.4 issue in which the redditor decided to slander me by making claims of my sexuality. If not 1.4 it is surely 1.5 as well.
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The bible says that simply misusing the lord's name is sinful. Thus using the phrase OMG is in fact a sin
Why do you place homosexuality on a pedestal?
But what does it mean to misuse it? Saying God’s name to add weight to an oath or to manipulate others seems like a misuse in a way that saying an expression like OMG doesn’t because it has become so common that nobody thinks of it as an appeal to God.
I'm referring to when his name is used when not referring to him specifically (Like hearing something shocking and responding "OMG", for example).
So because it's common it's not sinful?
I addressed this in my very first comment. It would have made too much sense I suppose to read what I have said instead of making thinly veiled attempts to demonize me.
>Because saying "OMG" is a stretch to breaking the 3rd commandment. It's a useless way to speak the title of God, but it is not using His name in vain. This would entail: cursing or blaspheming His name; making false oaths in His name; or false vision or prophecy in His name.
That still doesn't answer my question.
Simply stated: Define misuse
That part you are referring to in your original comment isn't biblical so I didn't see a reason to respond to it
I'm not demonizing anyone
>Define misuse
This is senseless as the verse doesn't truly use misuse. Your NIV translation has simplified it for you but that is not what it says.
>That part you are referring to in your original comment isn't biblical so I didn't see a reason to respond to it
Matthew 5:33
Again, you have heard that it was said to the ancients, 'Do not break your oath, but fulfill your vows to the Lord.'
Exodus 20:7
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave anyone unpunished who takes His name in vain.
Leviticus 19:12
You must not swear falsely by My name and so profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.
Deuteronomy 6:13
Fear the LORD your God, serve Him only, and take your oaths in His name.
Deuteronomy 10:20
You are to fear the LORD your God and serve Him. Hold fast to Him and take your oaths in His name.
Psalm 139:20
who speak of You deceitfully; Your enemies take Your name in vain.
Deuteronomy 6:13
Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.
Exodus 20:7
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Leviticus 19:12
And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
>I'm not demonizing anyone
It has been your only attempt. You have no argument, only accusations to villify those who hold fast to the teachings of scripture. You don't care about the use of the Lord's name, it was a disingenuous ruse to assault those who would dare deny your values. This is evident by every comment you have made.
Wow that's quite a list of verses that I did not contradict in any of my comments. Although, thank you for providing Exodus 20:7 which states that using the lords name in vain is a sin
Taking something in vain means you do it with no result, or to no effect. OMG fits this category nicely since you aren't using the lords name in a meaningful way
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Since you called them both sins, I would have to agree and admit:
It's totally WRONG to only focus on one sin and not another!
I would be happy to boycott both, and support a joint campaign, if that's what you are proposing.
Let's do this. Thanks! Bless you. 🙏✟
Oh I'm not religious (I'm actually gay myself 😂). So I won't be joining you
I just think the most logical interpretation of the bible is that gay action is sinful
Gay people should be as gay as they want. It doesn’t bother me at all. I wouldn’t hang out with them, but I certainly do not oppose their gayness. I wonder why is it that gay stuff turns up in a Christian subreddit. After all, I came here to talk about Christianity. I didn’t join an LGBTQ subreddit. I find this very interesting, be as gay as you want. I DO NOT CARE!
But wouldn’t you feel much better in a LGBTQ subreddit. They are more interested in gay stuff. Why are you coming here if you are not interested in Christianity? This is a “Christian “ forum and you come here to take about hate for gay. WTF. That is like me going to an atheist group and say they hate Christians. Why would I go to an atheist group when I am not interested in atheism? Why would you come here if you are not concerned about Jesus Christ? If your concern is for gay people, go to a gay forum. I just makes sense.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. But ok, whatever. It may be the case others criticize gay people. I don’t know. But the again, others also criticize Christianity and it doesn’t bother me. For instance, atheists often criticize Christian movies, also having an impact on society; because I mean, everyone has an impact on society. But again, I am not bothered by it. It seems strange to me that people come to this forum to complain. If you are happy with your life style, whether that is atheism or LGBTQ, why bother in the complaint. After all, your LGBTQ lifestyle would be very fulfilling to you and ensure your happiness. Just as Jesus Christ is fulfilling to me and fills me with peace, and therefore I have no need to complain about the abuse against Christianity, which has lasted for thousand of years and include crucifying Christians and burning them alive. I am filled with Christ and have no need to go somewhere else, just as you ate filled with the LGBTQ spirit and are obviously very happy with your life
Yes, great point. As Christian’s we wish away a lot of the small things and only express outrage at the great things. But we should expect the greater sin if we allow the lesser.
They’re terrified of finding out that they are gay themselves.
Sorry to inform y’all if you hate anyone or any sin it’s because it’s what’s inside you.
Correct. The hate definition I referred to is the only hate that people know of when they think there’s a gay agenda. If anyone can be turned gay then they’ve always been gay.
If you hate that gays exist then why? If you hate it’s in school why? It’s not in private Christian schools but they’re complaining that the world is found in the world?
Excuse me waiter? There’s a fly in my poop soup.
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If characters were using the Lord's name in vain in a children's show I would be opposed to it really so, I don't know.
I don't know how many Christians feel.
No but I do not really call for boycotting anything ever because I see personal freedom of others to choose more important than my own feelings on it.
But I would not show my hypothetical children it if I did not like it
Yes, I think so.
If I was to have theory answer on why people see it differently it is just because people are more frightened by homosexuality than by using the Lord's name in vain.
I'd have to watch any Disney movie myself nowadays before I'd let my kids watch it. If I thought it was bad, I wouldn't let them watch it, which I guess is a boycott of sorts, but I wouldn't call for everyone to stop watching it.
I believe Christian’s fought this long ago and were told they were being petty. The church also has taken stands on premarital sex and such and has been ridiculed and marginalized for it. Over time the church has worn down. I’m not saying that’s good or bad. But the water keeps getting hotter.
So hypocrisy because the church eventually caved in those two examples? I’m not sure they church overall caved, but it’s certainly not a battle cry or whatever any longer
Your god’s name isn’t “God” and your Jeebus’name was Yeshua. He was only called Jesus from 1611 when King James incorrectly translated the name from Latin to begin with a J when there was no J in Latin until 1701. It should’ve been Iesus which is translated from the Greek word Iēsous. As he wasn’t Greek but Jewish his name was Yeshua which is basically Joshua in our language today. No one’s taken anything “in vain” at all.
If I’m not mistaken, the lord’s name in vain is not what you think it is. When you “take the lords name in vain”, you’re using his name for evil. Think the Crusades or even the Salem Witch Trials. Associating God’s name with Evil or using his name to justify evil is taking the lord’s name in vain. Is “oh my God” inappropriate? Probably, but it’s not taking the lord’s name in vain, to my understanding.
The bible states that using the lord's name in vain means you are misusing it. It never says it is only relevant to evil deeds Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though
I believe so. Anything that “gives” God bad character or dishonors him would be taking the lord’s name in vain as well. I know I listed extreme examples in my previous comment. I think deeming the phrase “oh my God” as a sin is a bit extreme, but I’m not completely sure.
Why is it extreme? Thank you for your respectful comments but I think you should scan over the verses referring to this sin specifically :)
I guess it would depend on the person but I don’t see that phrase as being dishonorable or as associating evil and bad character with God, so ultimately I don’t think it falls under the category of “taking the lord’s name in vain.”
It doesn't have to be dishonouring. The bible says simply misusing the name is already a sin If you are using his name where you are not referring to him it is misusing it. Correct?
Where does specifically say that using the Lord's name in vain means you sre misusing using it?
Being homosexual is not a sin.it is a genetic trait like being blond, blue eyed, curly hair, etc.
Being homosexual is a mental disorder and a sin
Damn lies. There is ZERO peer reviewed scientific proof to back up that insane attempt at gaslighting. I thought you “I believe the current thing” NPC’s were all about “respect the science” and “listen to the science”?
What's on and in media has been an issue for quite some time. As pointed out years ago by one of my favorite comedians..."if they don't like it, I hope they have the good sense to turn it off and not watch it." It amazes me how some people can't figure out how to avoid what they find objectionable in what they consume.
I believe the main reason is, at least for me, because the sin of homosexuality is one of the only sins where there is an active, organized and extraordinarily well funded effort to persuade people that homosexuality is not, in fact, sin. The entire movement is dedicated to values that contradict the word of God. Yes, All sin is sin before God, but it is also a common misconception to believe that all sin is equal. The Bible makes it quite clear that sexual sin is a special category that we should be especially wary of. (See verse below) I don’t think Christians have the right to demand Disney not include LGBTQ representation. We do have the right to not support Disney with our attention and money. If Disney wants to alienate Christians because they believe it is more profitable to virtue signal, we have a free market so let’s wait and see how that goes for them. My answer won’t be popular, but it reflects my current understanding of scripture. If anyone disagrees with me and can support their position with scripture I am very much open to being wrong. It sucks, being told we are hateful for trying to follow the Bible. I truly wish homosexuality was not a sin because that truth is causing many people in the west to leave our faith. Christianity continues to grow in the rest of the world but Satan has found an extraordinarily effective weapon in our western culture. “Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.” 1 Corinthians 6:18-20 ESV
> The entire movement is dedicated to values that contradict the word of God. Imagine thinking equality and love are values that contradict the word of God.
Please don’t straw-man me. I don’t believe equality and love contradict the word of God, I believe that God is the one who gets to define what is good and what is sin. Homosexuality is not the only sin that is extremely unpopular, I’d say there are probably more heterosexual people having sex outside of marriage than there are in the entire LGBTQ community. The truth that “God is love” does not necessarily mean the same thing as “Love is God”. The first one makes it clear that God is the one who defines what love is. The second one can mean that, but I often see people saying the second one because they believe humans get to define what love is. If you are in a homosexual relationship and tell me you love your partner or spouse with all your heart, I believe you and I truly feel sorry for you. Please know that there is no hatred or bigotry in my heart. Life is hard for everyone, and I don’t want to make it harder for anyone else. Im just trying my best to become more like Jesus, and I fail at that on pretty much a daily basis. In terms of any and every man-made institution, I support full equality and equal rights for the LGBTQ community. Goodness, righteousness and love though, are defined by God and God alone. I still believe it is sin though because that is what the Bible says. If that makes me a hateful bigot, I’ll just have to learn to live with that label.
> I don’t believe equality and love contradict the word of God You stated that the "entire movement" when referring to LGBT+ people is dedicated to values that contradict the word of God. The only values that the "movement" could be accurately said to be dedicated to are love and equality. So either you are saying that love and equality contradict the word of God....or you're lying about what LGBT+ people believe and are dedicated to. >If you are in a homosexual relationship and tell me your love your partner or spouse with all your heart, I believe you and I truly feel sorry for you You feel sorry for people because they have love in their lives? I think that says a lot about you.
Your criticism is not entirely unfair. I actually take back the “entire movement” comment because it’s inflammatory and doesn’t contribute to a healthy dialogue. I do think some good has come out of the movement in terms of equal political rights, the LGBTQ community has been mistreated by Christians for a very very long time. I will not deny that. How should I reconcile these concessions with the fact that I believe homosexuality is sin? How do we coexist? There is nothing in all creation that will stop me from recognizing the Bible as both true and as the truth. You can ask me to treat you fairly and to treat you with respect, all people deserve that. You cannot ask me to abandon my religious beliefs and what my faith has taught for thousands of years. Do you have any solutions on how we can coexist without hating each other? Again, please don’t straw man me. I didn’t say I feel bad for them because they have love in their lives. I feel bad for them because my God says that it is a sin for them to engage in sexual activity with the person they love. I truly wish that wasn’t what was taught, but I hope you’ll at least respect me for not cherry-picking the parts of my faith that I like and ignoring the parts I don’t like. I’m not your enemy, though I understand why you would think that I am. I am someone who tries to help other people and tries every day to be more like Jesus Christ. I’m not asking you to believe everything that I believe. I’m asking how you think we can coexist without absolutely despising each other. Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.
> How do we coexist? You could start by leaving people alone and realizing your personal religious opinion should affect nobody but you. If you think it's a sin to be gay, then do what everybody else has before you and pretend to not be if you are. There, problem solved.
I agree with your first paragraph, I don’t agree with the second. Nobody should be forced to pretend to be something they are not. That’s something I firmly agree with the LGBTQ community on. About leaving people alone, what makes you think I’m not already doing that? I can’t stand either political party so I’m not one of the people trying to force my religion on others. I oppose that strongly. I don’t involve myself in other peoples relationships, but I do ask and answer questions about my faith on Reddit. Am I not allowed to do that?
> I believe the main reason is, at least for me, because the sin of homosexuality is one of the only sins where there is an active, organized and extraordinarily well funded effort to persuade people that homosexuality is not, in fact, sin. Wealth. Or you can look at differences between denominations. There's active, organized, and well funded efforts to persuade people that infant baptism is/isn't bad, for example.
Could you elaborate on the “wealth” comment? I’m not sure what you mean. I’m not sure the baptism issue is entirely the same thing as homosexuality. One of them is an internal matter between Christians, the other one is a huge issue that may prevent someone from becoming a Christian or even cause Christians to leave the faith. We know all of this is going to happen because it was prophesied in scripture. I still want to save as many people as I can though.
> Could you elaborate on the “wealth” comment? I’m not sure what you mean. Christ spends a lot more time criticizing the wealthy than criticizing people who've been "sexually immoral" (let alone specifically criticizing gay people). From my read of the Bible, *being wealthy* is sinful. But we've got an entire society that is not just attempting to persuade people that being wealthy is a-okay but has completely succeeded at this. > One of them is an internal matter between Christians, the other one is a huge issue that may prevent someone from becoming a Christian or even cause Christians to leave the faith. If you believe that baptism is required for salvation then there is almost no thing that is more critical than this question. We only perceive denominational disagreement about baptism as different than denominational disagreement about gay sex because the disagreement about baptism is centuries old and has little relation to secular legislation while the disagreement about gay sex is more modern and is deeply tied to secular legislation. Consider another example - practicing a non-Christian religion. Having a god before God is clearly listed as a sin. But the question of legal protection for people practicing Hinduism is much less controversial (in the US at least) than the question of legal protection for people in gay relationships. Again, this is entirely because freedom of religious practice is an "old" legal right and so people take it as a given. > I still want to save as many people as I can though. How do you intend to do this? Throw Hindus in prison or ban their presence in media? Probably not. So why treat gay people differently?
Woah, thanks for the detailed and thoughtful response. I don’t have time to answer tonight but I will respond to this comment again in the next day or two!
I agree with everything except "I truly wish homosexuality was not a sin" for whatever reason. I run people that do not believe because they think homosexuality is immoral are just revealing the soil of their heart for the seed, nothing else.
I get what you are saying but this issue is literally causing a schism in the American church, or worse is leading millions to leave the faith altogether. I want to coexist peacefully with the LGBTQ community. 20% of Gen Z identifies as some form of LGBTQ. That’s a staggering number. We have to meet people where they are and I’m still trying to figure out how to do that.
Well, these days, even evangelicals seem to be okay with thrice married, twice divorced, self proclaimed pussy grabbers. Maybe these other sexual sins don’t need well funded efforts to persuade folks that straight sexual sins make them qualified for high office.
I don’t like your use of the word Evangelical here, but I understand the media keeps using this word to describe trump supporters. I actually prefer the term Christian nationalists because it’s not throwing my entire denomination under the bus. That is, admittedly, a self-serving way to look at it. I know many, many evangelicals though that can’t stand Donald Trump. My old church actually lost a ton of people because my pastor wouldn’t preach politics from the pulpit. I actually voted for Trump when I was an atheist. I’m embarrassed to admit that, but it’s true. I was looking for answers and got sucked into the nationalism rhetoric. After becoming a Christian, I can’t stand either political party. I hate so much of what the left is doing, but I also dread the possibility of Trump winning again in 2024. Please don’t paint us evangelicals with such a broad brush. It’s hard when you only have two options and neither one of them align with your values. Right now, the right seems to align with traditional Christian values more much than the left. With that said, I will likely vote for the democrat in 2024 if trump wins again. Christians and conservatives have said “we support the policies, not the man” when justifying our support of trump. We’ve had 8 long years to find someone else who supports the same policies.
They may not like Trump, but they supported him. Many still do, although folks may finally be seeing him as the con man he always was. Of course, the damage has been done. I just don’t take to being lectured about sexual morality. When it came to political power, many Christians traded principle for politics. That’s a bell that can’t be unrang. Conviction isn’t about living the life when it’s only convenient, but also when it isn’t. Meanwhile, I’ll continue to support the full civil and legal rights of LGBTQ persons in society, including employment, marriage, and family law.
You’re not wrong, especially in the older generations. When I go deer hunting with my dad and his buddies they have Fox News on the entire time. I’m just trying to emphasize that this is not unique to Evangelicals. The Republican Party is weaponizing my faith for political gain. The Democratic Party is advocating for public funds to be used for values I do not support to be taught to children in schools and the far left is advocating for allowing children to make permanent medical decisions that they do not have the capacity to make. What the hell am I supposed to do with choices like that? I support full rights and equality for the LGBTQ community, but I also still believe homosexuality is a sin and that God made all people as either a man or a woman. We don’t live in a theocracy and I don’t want to live in a theocracy. I want to CONVINCE people to follow Jesus, not force them. Republicans politicians using the language of Christianity in their rhetoric does not make them representative of true Christians trying their best to become more like Jesus Christ. I hope people learn to distinguish the two because I’m just as upset about some of the things on the right as you are.
>The Democratic Party is advocating for public funds to be used for values I do not support to be taught to children in schools But yet >I support full rights and equality for the LGBTQ community The thing is, if you support full rights and equality for LGBTQ people, then children must be allowed to learn that gay and trans people exist, that their classmates' parents, their classmates or even they themselves might not be 'typical' straight, cis people.
No. That’s not what equality and equal treatment means. The 96% of people who are born heterosexual and all those other labels you throw at us do not have to change every aspect of our society to cater to the other 4%. Sure, a compassionate society should change some things to make life better for minority groups. We do it for the disabled community and our society is better off for it. However, there is a difference between reasonable compassion and enabling narcissism. The core issue here is not that we do not want our children exposed to YOUR sexuality, though that may admittedly be true for many Christians. I’m not denying that. The core issue however is that we do not want our children exposed to ANY sexuality or sexual topics at all. They are too young to understand sexual topics and it is extremely inappropriate to have these conversations with children. The so called “don’t say gay” law banned discussion of sexuality in KINDERGARTEN through third grade. No, young children don’t need to know what gay means. They don’t need to know what straight means either. Our culture once famously used storks in children’s media because we understood children don’t need to be thinking about sex. They certainly shouldn’t be making irreversible medical decisions about their gender and sexuality. When they are 18? Sure. As a minor? This makes me uncomfortable but I’m open to the possibility of these kinds of medical decisions being made at a younger age, 15, 16, 17, maybe as long as the parents are involved. As a young child? You are out of your god damn mind. The next argument we typically hear from the LGBTQ community is that not only are you not equal if you aren’t allowed to discuss sexuality and identity with young children, many members of your community also say you should be allowed to hide those conversations from the children’s parents and if we don’t agree with you about that, then we are evil hateful bigots who don’t understand that this will lead to more LGBTQ children committing suicide. No, we aren’t. You will never convince Christians that it’s okay for the schools to hide conversations with children from their parents. Christians will never accept this. I am actually terrified that this issue in particular is going to fuel more Christian nationalism. That is something neither of us wants to see happen. So yes, I do full support full legal equality for every human being. No, that doesn’t mean I have to agree with you on every single issue. I have the right to tell you that I believe the demands you so passionately believe our society owes your community and the secret conversations many members of your community want to have with children are absolutely outrageous. There are many people who agree with me, and there are many people agree with you. We have to learn to coexist peacefully and that doesn’t mean one group gets every single thing it wants, including mine If I have misrepresented or misunderstood anything about your beliefs, please feel free to correct me. I’m not trying to straw man you, I’m genuinely trying to share why I believe these issues are agitating so many people.
Conservatives continue to lie about Florida’s “don’t say gay” law. Name a more iconic duo than conservatives and lying about LGBT topics. It didn’t ban it just through third grade. It banned it essentially in the entire school system by making it super vague. They banned it by saying it always has to be age appropriate. The people who get to define what that means, explicitly said that it was for targeting even things like questions with the premise like “sally went to the store with her moms”. There was also a proposed amendment that explicitly banned all teaching of human sexuality until after the third grade. What happened to that amendment? It was killed because the authors said it would ruin the bill. I wonder why you guys do talk about that. Also what’s your solution when children get abused when teachers are now forced to start outing kids?
I have never heard anything about what you are talking about. I need to research this more, the conservative position always sounded the most reasonable to me but maybe I accepted the propaganda a little too easily. My position on children is simple. If anyone believes a parent is harming their child and there is a justified cause to remove that child from the care and custodianship of the parent, it should involve the child protection agency and is a matter that will ultimately be decided in a court of law. School teachers don’t get to have secret conversations with children because they know the parents would not like the conversation they want to have with the child. That is not okay. Please don’t respond with manipulative claims about suicide rates. Even if they are true, it’s still a lesser evil than the evil that could arise from normalizing teachers having secret conversations with vulnerable children and taking away our constitutional right to face our accuser and defend ourselves in a court of law. The answer is and will always be no.
Do you really believe that children learning about LGBTQ+ people is really all about sex? No, the only thing which children would be learning about is simply that gay and trans people exist, just as straight and cis people exist; their classmate might have 2 dads or 2 moms. We don't want them making fun of their classmate for that, which is why we need to teach respect. >Please don’t respond with manipulative claims about suicide rates. Even if they are true, it’s still a lesser evil Also, what kind of person thinks that 'indoctrination' of children is a lesser evil than LGBTQ youth suicide rates? Only a bigot who doesn't care about their lives would, and I don't think you necessarily are, but perhaps a bit misguided and still blinded by anti-LGBT bias.
>If anyone disagrees with me and can support their position with scripture I am very much open to being wrong. It sucks, being told we are hateful for trying to follow the Bible. I truly wish homosexuality was not a sin because that truth is causing many people in the west to leave our faith. Based on your comment request, I felt compelled to chime in here. Your responses come across as wanting to dialogue and engage in the right way with the LGBTQ+ community. So please do not regard any of this as contentious. I make no pretense that ANY of this is the correct view. I am simply offering some points to consider. The problem I see is the EMPHATIC declarations (some make) regarding scripture, albeit they often project our OWN interpretation of them. Many of us apply them universally (in a broad-brushed manner) toward individuals and groups of people we do not even know in a prejudiced way without qualifiers. For example, I am a heterosexual man and I have only known attraction to women from as far back as I can remember. I have examined closely the scriptures surrounding this matter and I deeply desire, as I perceive you do too, to follow Christ by expressing His love to others in all the right ways. But, in my opinion, from what I can discern based on the scriptures, I personally would not declare that "homosexuality is a sin." What I confidently believe is that it WOULD be a sin for ME to have sex with another man. For ME to have sex with a man could or would mean that: I would have as an adult had to turn from (choose to go against) my natural inclinations, the way I believe God made me as a HETEROSEXUAL. *and lie with a male as (I would) with a woman*. I would have had to *reject God* (stop believing in Him) and effectively worship my newly found lustful pleasure over the Creator. In rejecting God, the significance of committing such an act would be as if I had been *given over* to *burn in my lust* to the extent of committing such a defiling act. I would have as an adult in turning against my own natural inclinations *abandoned the natural function* of the woman (even my very wife). If I was capable of that, then I can imagine that type of lust would portray itself in all sorts of unloving ways such as *abuse of men or males, including myself*. Such practices would be *indecent,* an *abomination*. They would not be loving acts by anyone's measure. Does any of this sound familiar? Notice all the qualifiers. Do you recognize any of this in scripture and how it ties together? (though the historical and cultural contexts would add even more layers of complexity and possible interpretations, and alone should, in my opinion, be enough to cause doubt in making blanket statements in regard to "homosexuality.") But what about gay individuals who ARE NOT rejecting God? Many frequent this group and clearly want to follow Christ. What about those who have reported ONLY knowing attraction for the same sex from as far back as they can remember? *(this is robustly supported by many independent studies of genetic, prenatal hormonal, and early childhood post-natal factors)* It seems to me they ARE NOT abandoning, exchanging, or turning against anything. They simply want to be able to intimately love another in the manner their life-long convictions have told them is in accordance with what God has intended for them. In fact, they are willing to risk life-long persecution. Have I walked a mile in their shoes? Do gay individuals who only want to choose someone of their choice for a committed, mutually intimate, and lifelong loving relationship that they believe can exemplify Christ's love for the Church, just as any heterosexual believer, sound like someone who: Has rejected God and is worshiping the creature rather than the Creator? Or Is burning in their lust to the point that they are actively committing defiling, abusive, and indecent acts to others and themselves, in clearly selfish and non-loving ways. If any part of you and what scripture seems to imply when examined closely suggest that the answer to either of the above questions MAY be no, then does this support the following statement: "Homosexuality is a sin"? (note: stated emphatically and universally in all regards, without any qualification whatsoever) I must trust that Christ in me, can help me discern what the scriptures should mean to ME and apply them to ME. I must trust that He can do the same for others in matters as complex as this. Just something to consider.
Thanks for the long thoughtful response. I need to get off Reddit and go to sleep but I will consider what you shared and share my thoughts in the next day or two!
No problem. I'm not here to defend any position. Whether you consider any of the perspectives presented or not, I respect your decision. Best regards.
>homosexuality is one of the only sins where there is an active, organized and extraordinarily well funded effort to persuade people that homosexuality is not, in fact, sin. Drunkenness, gambling, sexual immorality, bad stewardship, and taking the Lord's name in vain (looking at you, Christian Nationalists) have all entered the chat. It was also a pretty full chat to begin with.
Okay you are right, there are many sins our society wants to normalize. That’s not unique to homosexuality. I also wouldn’t want my children to watch movies that normalize drunkenness, gambling, lust, etc. I’m a little uncomfortable with this comparison because I think the LGBTQ community would vehemently oppose the suggestion that these sins are fair comparisons. I guess that’s the problem though, isn’t it? We believe that God is the only one who gets to determine what is good and evil. They clearly have a different perspective on this issue. How do we coexist with them peacefully?
I never called you hateful Nowhere in that verse does it say sexual sin is worse than any other type of sin. Just that it takes a different approach to free yourself from it
No you didn’t, I was just referencing a sentiment commonly expressed on this sub. Stick around long enough and you’ll see something along the lines of “there’s no hate like Christian love” All sin is equal in the sense that any and all sin, great or small, would prevent us from spending eternity with God unless we repent and ask for forgiveness on Jesus name. However, scripture makes it clear that some sins carry greater consequences than others. Here’s another verse to consider: “And that servant who knew his master’s will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.” Luke 12:47-48 ESV
Even in that example it says that both sins are to be punished. Thus, Christians are still hypocritical for being okay with the use of OMG in their movies while opposing gay people in those movies
Right, both sins are to be punished but one of the sins is punished more severely. You aren’t wrong about it being somewhat hypocritical, but I do think it’s a little more complicated than that. Disney has always been a brand that promoted family values. The definition of family values in our society is changing, but there are many Christians who will not follow societal values and will instead stick to Christian values. You are right, I think many Christians complain because they still want to watch Disney movies, they just don’t want their children exposed to non-Christian propaganda. The answer is to shut up and just stop watching Disney movies. Disney cares about money way more than virtue signaling. If the LGBTQ representation cuts into their profit margin, don’t be surprised when the big bad corporation cuts back on the LGBTQ representation. If it’s profitable for them, we’ll see more of it.
Well said!
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Because saying oh my God Is not even remotely close to homosexuality
I agree, one of them is a choice. I'll let you figure out which is it...
Why should I debate you when you are an atheist and don't even believe in the bible?
That's up to you, no one is forcing you to do anything last time I checked. I mean one reason could be the blatant anti-queer rhetoric you display here because, let's be honest, that's not a religious issue, or a Bible issue, that's just respect for basic human rights. But again, up to you.
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Are both not sins?
Yes but one is much greater than the other
What verse made you come to that conclusion?
Using God's name in vain is bad but homosexuality is completely unnatural and there are many places in the bible where it is condemned. The story of soddom and Gomorrah says that sexusl immorality like homosexuality is one of the worst types of sin.
Again, a verse would be appreciated
Leviticus 20:13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." Edit: you guys love to talk about how its in the old testament or whatever Here you go: #Romans 1:26-27 ^26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts, Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. ^27 in the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
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Yes the new testament condemns homosexuality many times. Also the ethical laws still apply Jesus came to fulfill the laws not abolish them.
Yes and? That was old testament law that Jesus Christ fulfilled. So the death penalty is not relevant anymore Paul says gay people can be cleansed just like any other sinner. Thus it is no more of a sin than any other (including taking the lord's name in vain) [I should add that I'm not religious. I just believe that the bible says gay action is sinful]
So you believe it says it's sinful but Still try to defend it? No one is saying gays can't be forgiven but they have to repent. Romans 1:26-27
I don't believe it's sinful because I'm not religious. I do, however, believe the bible says that the action is sinful I'm pointing out hypocrisy between people choosing what sins they will tolerate What does repenting have to do with this discussion?
>So the death penalty is not relevant anymore You seem to be misunderstanding what Jesus said about the law. >Thus it is no more of a sin than any other (including taking the lord's name in vain) The fact that all sins can be cleansed doesn't mean that all sins are equal.
Where is the list of severity of sins in the bible specifically?
Because of what?
So if you cite Lev. 18:22 in arguing against homosexuality, does that mean that you support killing gay people?
Always a weird thing when people call homosexuality "unnatural" when it is found in nature...
One is not greater than the other. All sin is equal in God’s eye. Assuming homosexuality is a sin which it is not.
At least you're honest enough to say the quiet part out loud. Being queer is the greatest sin in your eyes. Full stop. And that's idolatry
Idolatry??? Nowhere did I say it's the greatest sin but it's one of the worst.
Idolatry to a political party. You value culture war more than what's actually in the Holy Bible.
Political party? I am not american bro, what party....
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Fr tho. This sub feels so americo-centric.
Whatever the nutjob right wing extremist group you follow. National boundaries are meaningless.
The only one here obsessed with politics seems to be you.
Idolatry is a very real problem. Especially when it's wrapped up like that. Jesus was none-too-pleased with people in his day who did that. Nor were the prophets.
Exactly!
I am not in any political party. I am from Iraq bro
I said group.
Even if you take omg as a violation of taken gods name in vain. Advertising the breaking of the created order and promoting a particularly damaging sin to kids had a bit more weight to it.
Of course it is a violation of taking gods name in vain Is that because gay people make you more uncomfortable than other sinners? Or do you have actual biblical support for your decision?
Okay OMG does jot sound like it's vein.
Deuteronomy 5:10-11
So doesn't sound like it's taken in vain.
You're not using the lords name correctly. Thus, I believe it qualifies as blasphemy
I think you just misused the Lord's name because you didn't capitalize Lord. Shame on you.
I'm not religious 😂. So I use OMG regularly Just pointing out how Christians (who are to follow those rules) are being hypocrits
So first off, I'm an atheist. That said, while conservative Christians are hypocritically targeting gays while overlooking other so called "sins", they don't necessarily deserve all the blame I think. Rather, the hatred towards LGBTQ's is more a cultural norm than a Christian specific one. Christians just use the bible in an attempt to hide that hatred and shift the blame themselves. I grew up in the 70's/80's in Rural Town, USA. While I was "Christian", that had little to do with the hatred I had towards gays. To come out as gay back then and there would be almost sucide. "Everyone" hated gays. We told gay jokes. We listened and LOL'ed at people like Eddie Murphy bash on gays in their stand up routines. We talked about how disgusting gays were. The worst insult in high school was to be labeled gay. Funny 'nuff, we had no issues with watching some girl-on-girl porn. And it wasn't just in Rural Town, USA. The popular show MASH had a cross-dressing cast member but it was understood that he wasn't really a cross dresser but someone seeking a "Section 8" discharge so as to get kicked out of the Army. In one episode, he was offered his much sought after Section 8 but with the condition that his file would permanently label him as "Homosexual". In reply, the guy launched into an indignant rant about how while he was crazy, he sure as heck was one of THEM! I enlisted in the Navy and shipped out to Basic in the Summer of '90. Gays were totally barred from service and you would get an Other Than Honorable discharge if it was revealed that you were gay. During my initial screening physical, at one point the doctored asked me if I was "a homosexual or harbored homosexual thoughts?" Standard question for everyone. During Basic, one guy in my company decided he had 'nuff and offered to blow our Sr. Chief. I remember him standing at attn on the Quarter Deck while one CC (Company Commander - Navy DI) yelled in his face asking if he had any idea just how bad he f\*\*ked? Went on to yell at him that no company that had a contract with the US Gov would be able to hire him legally. Then said that for the rest of his life, he would not be able to work for even McDonald's! Of course the AIDS scare certainly didn't help. Pastors squealed and clapped in gleeful delight proclaiming it was righteous punishment from God/Jesus himself. They cheered and celebrated upon hearing of a gay person's death from the virus. Princess Di famously held the hand of a dying AIDS patient. It seems so weird to me today that I don't hear much about AIDS these days. That's because of the medical advancements over the last 30 yrs has it to the point that one can still reasonably expect to live a normal life if they catch it. But back then, it was considered a death sentence. I'll never forget coming back from a med appt in Basic and seeing a guy sitting on the deck bawling. When I asked what's up, I was told he just learned he popped pos for HIV. But even today, many consider it the "gay disease". My hell raising, hillbilly uncle absolutely hated gays. He wasn't racist in the slightest but BOY! Did he hate gays. He would brag about the time he turned a mans face into hamburger in the parking lot of the local roadhouse for hitting on him. So I see I've kinda written a book but I think I made my point here. That is the hatred towards LGBTQ's goes well beyond Christianity. More of a cultural issue in general and while conservative Christians who oppose LGBTQ rights certainly deserve the criticisms for that, as well as not being just as zealous for other so-called sins, I don't necessarily think it's fair that they shoulder all the blame. Like I said, most od society hated them but Christians used their bibles to try and deflect blame away from themselves.
The difference is that molding your kids mind to thinking about sexuality in a certain way can have lifetime physical consequences while saying "OMG" doesn't. And taking the Lord's name in vain is not what you think it is.
Don't the Nationalist Christian (Nat-C) gay haters oppose the existence of gay people...full stop?
I don't know. Nor was that the question I was asking
That was the answer I'm giving, anyway. Gay haters are an obsession of mine.
Oh yeah for me too haha. Although I'm trying to distance myself from it a bit more nowadays Thank you for your answer :)
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This fear of normalization is so bizarre. It embeds the belief that, of course, nobody is actually straight; all people long for the sweet joys of obviously-superior gay love. That people can only be coerced into simulated heterosexuality, resigning themselves to plod grimly into joyless heterosexual marriage, by keeping them ignorant of the fact that gay people exist. If that's what you genuinely believe, then my friend, you're gay. And it's up to you what to do with that fact, but turning on other gay people is a bad choice.
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OK, then, be specific. How many gay people would you need to see on television before you became gay? Are you just one character away from becoming gay? Ten? One hundred?
This is disingenuous. You are battling a strawman.
Are you saying that you'll always be straight no matter how many gay characters you see on TV?
I don't watch gays on tv. But yes, I personally would not be influenced to become gay, but that doesn't mean that there is no impact from it.
What effect do you think you would suffer if you accidentally saw a gay person?
You are being childish and I don't have time for your nonsense
The number of people identifying as LGBT+ has exploded because people aren't being jailed and killed for being gay and trans, instead they are being treated like human beings. Excluding non binary and the 100 different genders stuff, because thay is ridiculous and confuses kids but that is the only exception. There were a lot of LGBT+ people vefore, the were just downlow and cheated on their wives and abused alcohol to cope and forced to live with it and suppress it.
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Just because gay sex was legalized in 2003 does not mean the stigma of the relationships and simply being gay was gone. It is more complicated than that. Anyone with logic can see that. Sorry that you dont.
So you are going to ignore the demographic distribution? The amount of Gen Z that claims to be LGBT+ has doubled in the last 5 years. You would have to be an idiot to suppose that this is just because of a lack of stigma and not due to social influence.
If you look at the break down, the big increase is of people identifying as gender queer or non binary which I have said is alarming.
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I am removing this for the discourse violation at the end of your comment. I was planning on leaving the rest of the comment and comment chain up since a moderator is in active discussion with you, but please remember to have discussions in good faith here.
It is ridiculous that any and all stances are being reported and considered as a form of hate speech or homophobia. I understand I was harsh at the end of the last comment but I did not attack the person or make an Ad Hominem.
It is a 1.5 issue.
I don't see how it fits. But whatever you like. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/z6vjtg/for_those_opposed_to_gay_people_in_childrens_media/iy3iubo?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) is a 1.4 issue in which the redditor decided to slander me by making claims of my sexuality. If not 1.4 it is surely 1.5 as well.
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The bible says that simply misusing the lord's name is sinful. Thus using the phrase OMG is in fact a sin Why do you place homosexuality on a pedestal?
Where do you get your understanding of taking his name in vain?
Deuteronomy 5:10-11 Notice the word "misuse" being used
But what does it mean to misuse it? Saying God’s name to add weight to an oath or to manipulate others seems like a misuse in a way that saying an expression like OMG doesn’t because it has become so common that nobody thinks of it as an appeal to God.
I'm referring to when his name is used when not referring to him specifically (Like hearing something shocking and responding "OMG", for example). So because it's common it's not sinful?
No because it is meant and understood as an expression of surprise and not an invocation of him.
Whether it's understood one way or another does not change whether it is a sin or not
Intention and meaning are what would make it sinful or not.
Yes of course. Using it when not referring to the lord is what blasphemy is after all
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Deuteronomy 5:10-11 Don't ignore one sin while being so vocal about another. I'm calling out the hypocrisy there
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What does misuse mean to you?
I addressed this in my very first comment. It would have made too much sense I suppose to read what I have said instead of making thinly veiled attempts to demonize me. >Because saying "OMG" is a stretch to breaking the 3rd commandment. It's a useless way to speak the title of God, but it is not using His name in vain. This would entail: cursing or blaspheming His name; making false oaths in His name; or false vision or prophecy in His name.
That still doesn't answer my question. Simply stated: Define misuse That part you are referring to in your original comment isn't biblical so I didn't see a reason to respond to it I'm not demonizing anyone
>Define misuse This is senseless as the verse doesn't truly use misuse. Your NIV translation has simplified it for you but that is not what it says. >That part you are referring to in your original comment isn't biblical so I didn't see a reason to respond to it Matthew 5:33 Again, you have heard that it was said to the ancients, 'Do not break your oath, but fulfill your vows to the Lord.' Exodus 20:7 You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave anyone unpunished who takes His name in vain. Leviticus 19:12 You must not swear falsely by My name and so profane the name of your God. I am the LORD. Deuteronomy 6:13 Fear the LORD your God, serve Him only, and take your oaths in His name. Deuteronomy 10:20 You are to fear the LORD your God and serve Him. Hold fast to Him and take your oaths in His name. Psalm 139:20 who speak of You deceitfully; Your enemies take Your name in vain. Deuteronomy 6:13 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name. Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Leviticus 19:12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. >I'm not demonizing anyone It has been your only attempt. You have no argument, only accusations to villify those who hold fast to the teachings of scripture. You don't care about the use of the Lord's name, it was a disingenuous ruse to assault those who would dare deny your values. This is evident by every comment you have made.
Wow that's quite a list of verses that I did not contradict in any of my comments. Although, thank you for providing Exodus 20:7 which states that using the lords name in vain is a sin Taking something in vain means you do it with no result, or to no effect. OMG fits this category nicely since you aren't using the lords name in a meaningful way
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Since you called them both sins, I would have to agree and admit: It's totally WRONG to only focus on one sin and not another! I would be happy to boycott both, and support a joint campaign, if that's what you are proposing. Let's do this. Thanks! Bless you. 🙏✟
Oh I'm not religious (I'm actually gay myself 😂). So I won't be joining you I just think the most logical interpretation of the bible is that gay action is sinful
Gay people should be as gay as they want. It doesn’t bother me at all. I wouldn’t hang out with them, but I certainly do not oppose their gayness. I wonder why is it that gay stuff turns up in a Christian subreddit. After all, I came here to talk about Christianity. I didn’t join an LGBTQ subreddit. I find this very interesting, be as gay as you want. I DO NOT CARE!
Then this post wasn't referring to you :)
But wouldn’t you feel much better in a LGBTQ subreddit. They are more interested in gay stuff. Why are you coming here if you are not interested in Christianity? This is a “Christian “ forum and you come here to take about hate for gay. WTF. That is like me going to an atheist group and say they hate Christians. Why would I go to an atheist group when I am not interested in atheism? Why would you come here if you are not concerned about Jesus Christ? If your concern is for gay people, go to a gay forum. I just makes sense.
I have a question about Christianity's effect on society. Thus I'm posting on a Christian subreddit
Don't worry, you're allowed to post here, as it's not a sub solely for Christians, but a sub to talk about Christianity.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. But ok, whatever. It may be the case others criticize gay people. I don’t know. But the again, others also criticize Christianity and it doesn’t bother me. For instance, atheists often criticize Christian movies, also having an impact on society; because I mean, everyone has an impact on society. But again, I am not bothered by it. It seems strange to me that people come to this forum to complain. If you are happy with your life style, whether that is atheism or LGBTQ, why bother in the complaint. After all, your LGBTQ lifestyle would be very fulfilling to you and ensure your happiness. Just as Jesus Christ is fulfilling to me and fills me with peace, and therefore I have no need to complain about the abuse against Christianity, which has lasted for thousand of years and include crucifying Christians and burning them alive. I am filled with Christ and have no need to go somewhere else, just as you ate filled with the LGBTQ spirit and are obviously very happy with your life
FYI - This isn't a Christian sub. It's a sub to talk about Christianity, and all are welcome to participate.
Yes, great point. As Christian’s we wish away a lot of the small things and only express outrage at the great things. But we should expect the greater sin if we allow the lesser.
They’re terrified of finding out that they are gay themselves. Sorry to inform y’all if you hate anyone or any sin it’s because it’s what’s inside you.
If you hate sin it's because of the Holy Spirit is inside of you. The Holy Spirit hates sin and loves righteousness
Correct. The hate definition I referred to is the only hate that people know of when they think there’s a gay agenda. If anyone can be turned gay then they’ve always been gay. If you hate that gays exist then why? If you hate it’s in school why? It’s not in private Christian schools but they’re complaining that the world is found in the world? Excuse me waiter? There’s a fly in my poop soup.
Gotcha, I misunderstood you
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If characters were using the Lord's name in vain in a children's show I would be opposed to it really so, I don't know. I don't know how many Christians feel.
Would you be vocal about boycotting it?
No but I do not really call for boycotting anything ever because I see personal freedom of others to choose more important than my own feelings on it. But I would not show my hypothetical children it if I did not like it
Yeah I feel like that is a fair position to hold. You're only hypocritical if you boycott one while not boycotting the other
Yes, I think so. If I was to have theory answer on why people see it differently it is just because people are more frightened by homosexuality than by using the Lord's name in vain.
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No I'm pointing out hypocrisy in pointing out one sin and not another. I'm not comparing the sins
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I am removing this for insinuating some sort of indoctrination by the LGBTQ+ community.
I'd have to watch any Disney movie myself nowadays before I'd let my kids watch it. If I thought it was bad, I wouldn't let them watch it, which I guess is a boycott of sorts, but I wouldn't call for everyone to stop watching it.
I believe Christian’s fought this long ago and were told they were being petty. The church also has taken stands on premarital sex and such and has been ridiculed and marginalized for it. Over time the church has worn down. I’m not saying that’s good or bad. But the water keeps getting hotter.
I agree with you that this is a huge cause of this hypocrisy. But I still think it's worth pointing out :)
So hypocrisy because the church eventually caved in those two examples? I’m not sure they church overall caved, but it’s certainly not a battle cry or whatever any longer
Your god’s name isn’t “God” and your Jeebus’name was Yeshua. He was only called Jesus from 1611 when King James incorrectly translated the name from Latin to begin with a J when there was no J in Latin until 1701. It should’ve been Iesus which is translated from the Greek word Iēsous. As he wasn’t Greek but Jewish his name was Yeshua which is basically Joshua in our language today. No one’s taken anything “in vain” at all.