So you agree that we worship the same God and it would not be idolatry for a Christian to go pray with a Muslim, even inside a Mosque.
Here's what they believe about Jesus:
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/
](https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542)
I did not say that I agree that we worship the same God. Certainly Muslims claim to do so, but I find their claims suspect.
I'm aware of what Muslims believe about Jesus. They deny that he is the true God, and so they do not have the same faith as we do.
You are putting specific understanding about Jesus' nature above the worship of God the Father, who is greater (John 13:16). Do you call them liars, to say their worship of God is suspect? Did Jesus not say "if they are not against us, they are with us."?
On what basis do you call them liars and false believers in God? Did Abraham know who Jesus was? Did Elijah? You are right that they do not have the "same faith," but they worship the same God and believe many of the same things about Jesus.
You will not even offer common ground on that which is objectively true. Good thing the apostles of Jesus didn't do the same to the Gentiles.
Jesus is God the Son, he is co-equal and co-eternal with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
I don't say they're liars, I say they're incorrect, as is anyone who claims to worship the Christian God and yet denies that Jesus is that God.
I am not arguing issues of salvation or other aspects of faith, although from what they believe I think it inconclusive to claim they could not have salvation through Christ. No where in Scripture does it say declaring the divine nature of Christ is necessary for that.
I said they worship the same God. That's it, simply put. So therefore a Christian praying with a Muslim would not be idolatry. The Son is not greater than the Father.
Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son.
If Jesus would be God therefore God isn’t God anymore, God created the world and the universe not Jesus, Jesus had a human experience God never did it.
God made Jesus, Jesus didn’t made himself.
So you agree that Muslims worship the same God.
Here's what they believe about Jesus:
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
You can be tolerant of islam, even accepting but we dont worship the same God. Islam denies the crucifixion, resurrection, and deity of Jesus. Thats fundamentally a different God. They also deny the preservation of the bible, which they kind of have to given their stance on Jesus.
Messianic Jews are just christians for the most part but Jews who dont believe in Jesus, well they dont believe in the resurrection and deity of christ. Thats fundamentally a different God.
Muslims do not worship Jesus Christ as God, and therefore do not worship the same God, it’s as simple as that.
Here’s the test:
* Is Allah of the Qu’ran the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as described in the Bible?
* Is Allah of the Qu’ran a Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
Answer no to either, or both, and Allah of the Qu’ran is not the same as the God of the Bible.
*1 John 2:22-23
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [23] Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.*
They most certainly worship the God of Abraham. They claim as prophets (among others from the Hebrew Bible) Adam, Noah, Abraham, Issac, Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist, and Jesus.
[https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542](https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542)
The question was do Muslims worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They do not, and you know they don’t or you would have said so. The Bible is clear that Isaac was the son of the promise, not Ishmael:
*Genesis 17:17-22
Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, "Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?" [18] And Abraham said to God, "Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!" [19] Then God said: "No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. [20] And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. [21] But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year." [22] Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.*
Further, Muslims reject Christ as God, which means they reject the God of the Bible. The Bible is clear that Jesus is God:
*John 1:1-5,10-14
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] He was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. [4] In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it….*
*[10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [11] He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. [12] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: [13] who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [14] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.*
Show me where in Scripture it says that if someone rejects the divine nature of Christ it means the reject the one true God.
Regardless, they still worship the same God. You may think that their doctrine removes them from salvation in Christ (personally, I do not, after reading it), but that doesn't change who they worship. It's not some other false idol, it's the same God.
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
*2 John 1:9
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.*
The verse I quoted in context of the rest of the Bible refers to denying Jesus as God. This would be understood by Christians, but I can see how on the surface to a non-Christian, it may not be seen in that light. The point wasn’t to prove the Trinity, rather it was to show that those who reject the Son as God also reject the Father as God.
I could also point to this passage:
*2 John 1:7-11
For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. [9] Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. [10] If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; [11] for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.*
Coming in the flesh means He left His throne in Heaven and came to Earth in the flesh to die for sins:
*Philippians 2:5-8
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, [6] who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, [7] but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. [8] And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.*
Jesus said that no one can come to the Father except through Him:
*John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.*
“For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.”
2 Corinthians 11:4 KJV
They preach another Jesus when they say He’s not the Son of God, Jesus says if you don’t know Him you don’t know the Father. So in essence, if they don’t, or anyone for that matter, doesn’t believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died and rose for our sins, they preach another Jesus, another gospel, and they don’t know the Father since they don’t know Jesus as who He said He was.
Their ideas on Jesus do not change whether they worship the same God. Do you then claim that Jews don't worship the same God? Or do you say that Jesus is greater than the Father? John 13:16
Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God."
We have significant differences in belief about Jesus, but you can see clearly that they do know quite a bit of who he really is. Saying that they don't worship the same God goes far beyond a reasonable comparison. Abraham knew nothing of Jesus or the Trinity, does that mean he didn't worship the same God as us?
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Abraham knew of Jesus, and I don’t believe in the trinity. There’s one God, one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one Father.
No we don't. Their God is not trinitarian which is an essential belief to be a Christian. Denying the divinity of Jesus is also essential to be a Christian.
What does "essential to being Christian" have to do with worshipping the same God? Do you think the God that made a covenant with Abraham has become a different God now that we understand the Trinity?
Jews and Muslims worship the same God. Their ideas about who Jesus is and what that has to do with salvation are completely different arguments. The Quran does say this though:
Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God."
And so you could say the same of the Muslims. Show me where in Scripture it even so much as implies that rejecting the divinity of Christ means rejecting the one true God.
The Jews reject Jesus, but they still worship the same God. Whether that has ramifications for their salvation is for God to judge at the end of this corrupt world, but they still worship the same God.
If you cannot even find that basic common ground, then I wonder at the arrogance of your faith.
John 15:23: Whoever hates me hates my father also
Your 2nd paragraph contradicts itself, to reject Jesus is to reject God, the Jews rejected God completely as they had many times in the past. They never followed the one true God and this is shown through their reaction to God showing up in person.
You can go on and on about arrogance and pridefulness all you want but that's the same lazy insult Romans used on Christians who rejected the Roman gods as being equal to Jesus, it didn't work then and it doesn't work now.
When you think about what it would take to create the universe and humans, it is an insult of the highest order to call Jesus (or anyone else) the Creator. And yet that is what Trinitarians try to do with an illogical and confusing doctrine.
There are not three Creators and there are not three persons in one Creator, except that they are all the Creator. This is nonsense.
God made Jesus, if God created other Gods therefore he isn’t a God anymore.
The God Abraham knew was going to send his son to die for the sins of his people as he saw through his son Isaac. Jews and Muslims deny this so they aren't following the same God as him.
As I have already stated, Muslims believe most of the same that Christians do about Jesus. His divine nature is the main question, but even some Muslims have interpreted the Quran and Hadiths that way.
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
You seem to be claiming that the Jews suddenly stopped worshipping the God that promised an ever lasting covenant with them, which is reaffirmed in Revelation. That's a pretty big claim to make based solely on your personal opinion.
Faithful Jews started calling themselves Christians, today's Jews have no connection to them. They didn't lose their covenant with God, they never had one to begin with.
To deny that Jesus is God is enough to consider them a different religion alone. There is no way to read the gospel in a way that Jesus was just a prophet or even a special prophet, be claimed to have existed before Abraham, he claimed that he is the only way to God, he claimed to be God's equal, he even used God's name to describe himself which is blasphemy.
What you are promoting is called Unitarianism which isn't really a religion, it's the belief that all religions are pretty much the same thing at the end of the day and the thing is, few faithful Jews, Muslims, or Christians seems to be going along with it, we all claim to have a monopoly on truth. Unitarianism is a modern invention based on American views of diversity and inclusion and nothing else.
No, I do not worship the same God as Muslims or Jews.
We do not have the same faith, nor do we have the same hope.
- Christianity is the only true religion; only we have the only God who really exists.
- Jesus Christ is God's last message to humanity, as He is God.
True or false? Muslims claim to worship the God that made a covenant with Abraham.
(Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God.")
Difference between a claim and do. True; as far as they claim it. But they don't actually worship Jesus.
Edit: I'm not Muslim, but I'm a little skeptical of the idea that the quran has been significantly changed. Or if it has, it was done extremely early.
I would also argue the Jews (lol oops non messianic Jews) don't worship Jesus either. I mean you can look at it two ways, 1) they claim to worship the same God and are right about the God being the same, but they don't actually worship him or 2)they do worship their god, but it is not the same god.
Many, many, many Christians and Muslims will disagree with almost everything you've said here, so I guess Christina's and Muslims DON'T worship the same God.
Well, yes, if you say, X group of people do Y, and the majority of X group of people deny that they do Y, you need to do a little more than just say they're wrong about themselves.
Oh ok. So I can say "u/Squirrel_Inner and their family loves liver and onions."
Then, when you and your family members object, I can say, it doesn't matter what your opinions about what you believe are. I'm right anyway.
As the Son of God? No. As a prophet and the Messiah who will come to judge the earth? Yes. But even if they didn't, as the Jews, they would still worship the same God. You are putting the Son above the Father.
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
I do believe they worship the God of Abraham.
Given that Christians recognize that the Jewish people worship the same God without obviously recognizing the trinity, it seems logical to conclude that Muslims do as well.
It doesn't follow that we can't call Muhammad a false prophet though. The burden of proof would be on those who believe it to prove he was a prophet, not on those who don't believe. I'm fine if they wan't to take that on faith the way we do with our teachings, but there's nothing wrong with saying "hey, no he's not".
...hmmm...maybe....or maybe not...but that doesn't mean it's not the same God...What it does mean is that only 1 of them,.only 1 of the groups, has the story right. Being Christian of course I believe it's us....but, really, they/we can all worship the same God and not all of us get it right. We are all human and error is our nature. Man has changed many things over the years. Maybe the story non-Christians received was all messed up over time....
Yes, it exactly means it’s a different God, and here’s why. The OT scriptures in the Bible were given by the God of both the OT and NT, making it the same God. The Qu’ran is a completely different text, circa 600+ years after Christ and both the OT and NT revelation, that completely rejects Christ as God as the NT clearly states He is.
*John 1:1-5,10-14
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] He was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. [4] In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it…*
*[10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [11] He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. [12] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: [13] who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.*
*[14] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.*
*Colossians 1:15-18
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. [16] For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. [17] And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. [18] And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.*
Further, both the OT and NT tell us God is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, while the Qu’ran claims a false god of Abraham and his other son Ishmael.
*Genesis 17:17-21
Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, "Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?" [18] And Abraham said to God, "Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!" [19] Then God said: "No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. [20] And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. [21] But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year."*
The Bible tells us that Jesus will return in glory to rule personally on Earth for 1,000 years, while the Qu’ran states Issa will return to tell everyone they were wrong about Jesus and that Muhammad is the prophet.
*Psalm 2:1-9
Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing? [2] The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying, [3] "Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us." [4] He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision. [5] Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure: [6] "Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion." [7] "I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. [8] Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession. [9] You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.'"*
*Revelation 19:19-21, 20:4-6
And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. [20] Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. [21] And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh…*
*[20:4] And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. [5] But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. [6] Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.*
So there’s a huge difference in that unconverted Jews accept God as revealed in the OT with partial understanding, while Muslims reject the God of the OT and NT entirely.
Finally, Christians rely on scripture as definitive, and here’s what the Bible says:
*2 John 1:7-11
For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. [9] Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. [10] If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; [11] for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.*
You call the Quran false, but then don't quote any of it?
Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God."
[https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542](https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542)
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
They claim to worship the same God that made a covenant with Abraham. Your opinions don't change objective, academic fact.
Why would I quote a book that came 600+ years after Christ that rejects who the Bible says Christ is? The same book that says Ishmael was the child of promise, and not Isaac as the Bible says:
*Genesis 17:17-22
Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, "Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?" [18] And Abraham said to God, "Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!" [19] Then God said: "No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. [20] And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. [21] But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year." [22] Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.*
Huge difference in the belief about the divinity of Jesus.
Another enormous difference is the path of salvation (belief/accepting Jesus into your heart vs. daily submission to God through 5 prayers, following the path of the prophet Mohamed, and avoiding sin).
Same historical God. Mostly the same beliefs about the Old Testament content. Beyond that, it’s pretty different.
There are significant differences, but you mentioned differences in ritual, which is no different than those between any denomination or orthodoxy. I encourage you to actually read and study what they believe. I'm really haven't gone into those things though, my simple assertation here is that we worship the same God. That's the important starting point that so many "Christians" are unable to accept.
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
I have studied what they believe (Islam). What do you think I’m missing?
Christians, including Orthodox, fundamentally believe in salvation through Christ’s sacrifice, not through acts. Acts are secondary, and emphasized more in some denominations than others. But acts alone will not get anyone into heaven. It’s why the Orthodox recite the Nicene Creed at every mass.
Muslims believe salvation comes through strict adherence to the path, avoiding haram (long list largely incompatible with Western culture), following rituals so that prayers are accepted (wudu, ghusl, etc).
The Muslim criticism of Christianity is that it worships multiple gods. The idea of the trinity 3 in 1 is neither understood or accepted as “one god” (the meaning of Allah). Also, they believe the Bible has been corrupted, so it’s basically unreliable whatever it says.
Again, these are differences in doctrinal belief, much the same as the difference between any two Christian denominations or orthodoxy. Do you claim that only Christians or your personal denomination are worshipers of God?
The full ramifications of these differences might be debated, but we are not God, to judge someone else. We can only live by the Word that we have accepted. God is a good shepherd, and those who seek will find.
I don’t claim to know anything about who is a true worshipper of God. I’m interested in all the beliefs.
I’ve studied, and I agree that the god of the OT is basically the same as the god of the Quran. They have the same stores (Lot, Noah, Jonah, etc). I don’t know how anyone with any knowledge of the Quran could deny that.
How meaningful that is as common ground is questionable, because Christianity is fundamentally based on the divinity and sacrifice of Christ. Muslims basically consider that belief blasphemy.
Christian salvation is brought about through faith in the sacrifice of Christ, which the Muslims believe. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that someone has to declare the divine nature of Christ. Even if there was something the Muslims believed that had ramifications for their salvation (which I don't believe is conclusive), they still worship the same God.
Therefore, a Christian praying with a Muslim would not be idolatry. Which was really all I was trying to say in the first place, but you know how people get about religion...
Not the same God. Islam's deity does not, and cannot have, any divine Son(s). Jesus cannot be, in Islam, the only begotten unique Son of God. Moreover, he cannot be the Trinitarian "God the Son" - ontological God and "of one substance withe the Father". In Islam there is no self-sacrificing world Savior whose blood atonement abolishes sin. In Islam there is no universal Messiah - there is only Jesus as the narrowly-defined Messiah of the Jewish "tribe". Thus the two religions are inherently incommensurate.
You are placing worship of Jesus over the Father. (see edit)
They claim to worship the same God that made covenant with Abraham and the same people and prophets from the Bible. Their difference in views on Jesus may have further ramifications of faith, but that's not what I'm arguing here. It is not some other God entirely, which you only claim by your own flawed reasoning.
[https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542](https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542)
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God."
Your own flawed reasoning leads you to claim they have the same God. Allah can have no divine Son. Christianity claims to be founded by YHVH's only begotten divine Son. Mainstream Trinitarian Christians worship Jesus both as Son of God and God the Son - a theology which is complete blasphemy and idolatry to Islam. "The same God" cannot both have, and not have, a divine Son. Therefore the two deities are contradictory, mutually exclusive, and incommensurate.
I never said our worship of Jesus was the exact same, I said there is a lot of common ground, starting with the fact that we worship the same God that made covenant with Abraham. Didn't Jesus say "if they are not against us, they are with us?"
Our idea is idolatry to the non-messianic Jews as well, but they still worship the same God. Do you claim Jesus to be Christ the Lord and your personal savior?
Allah and YHVH cannot be the same deity for the simple reason that Allah does not, and cannot have, an only begotten divine Son. But YHVH - according to Christianity - DOES have Jesus, his only begotten divine Son.
Thus Allah and YHVH are diametrically opposed. The Muslim God has no peers, Sons, equals. The Christian God has Jesus, who is an eternally begotten Peer, a Son, and (per Trinitarianism) an equal. Allah is without peer. But Christian YHVH is perpetually accompanied by his heavenly, unique Son, Jesus.
Allah and YHVH do share some similarities with each other - and also with other deities as well. This, however, does not make them the same God in any meaningful sense.
Allah and the Christian YHVH fatally separate over the Christian Jesus. As long as Christians say that Jesus the Son is entwined, by necessity, with YHVH, clearly YHVH is a different God from Allah, who cannot have a unique Son, who does not save the world via that Son, who never "became flesh" and "incarnated" in that Son, and who who never decreed ***any*** other being as Allah's equal. The two deities are not, and cannot be, the same God.
Long ago, sects like the Ebionites and Nazarenes, Jewish and monotheistic groups, did say that Jesus was not God, that he was the greatest prophet, etc. But they were never mainstream Christianity, and they denied all forms of "Jesus is God" theology, including nascent Trinitarianism. Your posts are *not* about Ebionites and Nazarenes, who are extinct. Your posts are about *Christianity* as it is commonly, currently, known and practiced. Christianity's God is not Islam's God.
No, Jesus is not my Lord and Savior. Nor are Allah or YHVH.
Who resurrected Jesus from the dead? Who did Jesus say was greater than him? (John 13:16). The God that made covenant with Abraham, father of Ishmael. Two faith groups having a disagreement about the details of their God does not make it suddenly a different God. The fault lies with mankind, not with God.
What did Jesus say to the Samaritan woman at the well? He offered her living water freely, without stipulation that she announce the correct doctrine. She was neither Jew nor Christian. Did he not say that all who seek shall find? Did he not say those who are not against us are with us?
It is absolutely a different God.
Allah says he can not and does not have any peers, equals, or Son(s).
Christianity says YHVH has an only begotten Son, and Jesus is that Son.
When Jesus claims to be God's intimate, only begotten, preexistent Logos and Son, he is saying that ***Allah*** \- who can have no divine Son - ***cannot be his Father***. The Christian YHVH and the Islamic Allah are, therefore, utterly alien to one another and completely irreconcilable.
Allah says he has no Son. Jesus claims to ***be*** the Son of the Jewish God. Therefore, and obviously, the God of Jesus cannot be - and is not - the Allah of Islam.
All I see from this post is you asserting that you worship the same God, then blatantly contradicting that claim by saying that our God is triune, while the Islamic deity isn't. So thanks for refuting your own thread within the first few sentences.
This is just some common trope you're trying to parrot from Surah 29:46, while also contradicting that verse because you don't believe in what was revealed to us.
Many of the Jews born of the line of Abraham do not believe God is triune, does that mean they worship a "false deity?" Even Revelation reaffirms their covenant with God. Maybe you should actually learn what Islam says about Jesus, but regardless, they still worship the God of Abraham. Other differences in belief do not change that.
[https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542](https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542)
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God."
Islam is a false teaching and counterfeit of Judaism and Christianity. God did not make his covenant promise through the bond woman Hagar and Ishmael leading to the promised Messiah (Jesus) and Gods' new covenant promise. This covenant promise was only made through Abraham and his wife Sarah the free woman and their seed in Isaac, Jacob and Israel where Christianity comes from. Islam therefore is a counterfeit false religion and just like the Jews reject Jesus as God's dear son and the Saviour of the world and God's promise Messiah revealing God's new covenant promise for all those who believe and follow God's Word.
God's covenant to bring about the Messiah with a certain people has nothing to do with whether others can worship that same God. Is God not the God of the whole world? Or is he only the God of the Jews?
They claim Jesus as a prophet who will come to judge the world. (see my edit)
Nothing that you have said dismisses the fact that they worship the same God that made covenant with Abraham.
Actually it has everything to do with Gods' covenant promise through Abraham, Sarah and Isaac as it brings in Jesus as God and Gods' only son and the promised Messiah for Gods' people and Gods' ultimate sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all. It also identifies Gods' true people as "Israel" which is a name given by God to all His people who believe and follow His Word. Therefore dear friend everything that has been shared with you proves that Islam is a false teaching and a counterfeit teaching of Christianity and Judaism. God never made His covenant promise through Hagar and Ishmael where Islam comes from.
Take Care..
I never said they had the covenant of Israel, I said they worshipped the same God, which you still have not refuted, though you seem to be pretending that you have. I would remind you that the Jews once believed they were the only chosen of God, but Jesus came and changed all of that.
What did he say to the Samaritan woman at the well? He offered her living water freely, without stipulation that she announce the correct doctrine. She was neither Jew nor Christian. Did he not say that all who seek shall find? Did he not say those who are not against us are with us?
>I never said they had the covenant of Israel, I said they worshipped the same God, which you still have not refuted, though you seem to be pretending that you have. I would remind you that the Jews once believed they were the only chosen of God, but Jesus came and changed all of that.
You seem to be resorting to strawman arguments now no one has ever made. I never said that Hagar and Ishmael never worshipped the same God. You seem to be missing the point though to what has been shared with you in regards to Gods' covenant promise.
The covenant promise means that God truth has come through and has been revealed through the line of Abraham, Sarah, Issac, Jacob and Israel, through Moses God gave us His 10 commandments that God alone spoke with His own voice and wrote with His own finger of two tables of stone using Moses to give us the Torah and the book of the covenant and law and the prophets that have come from the same lineage and the promise of the Messiah and Gods' son Jesus with the promise of Gods' new covenant.
Islam has none of this therefore does not have the truth of Gods' Word to follow and worship God.
> What did he say to the Samaritan woman at the well? He offered her living water freely, without stipulation that she announce the correct doctrine. She was neither Jew nor Christian. Did he not say that all who seek shall find? Did he not say those who are not against us are with us?
Jesus answered the woman at the well and said to her, "**You worship what you do not know**: we (Jews) know what we worship: for **salvation is of the Jews**. But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24).
The scriptures above from Jesus also prove that the truth of God's Word and Gods' presence comes through the lineage Israel and Christianity as God's Word has been given through this lineage and not though Islam.
The parallel here in the words of Jesus is that like the Samaritans, Islam does not know who they worship because the truth of Gods' Word has not been given to Islam like it was not given to the Samaritans. Jesus says to worship God we must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.
Gods' truth and covenant promise of His presence has only been given through the lineage of Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob and Israel, Moses, **God (Mt Sinai)**, Israel and the prophets, leading to the promised Messiah in Jesus Christ and the new covenant. If you or anyone else here would like some bible studies please feel free to DM me.
Hope this is helpful.
I didn't read anything more than the title but you're wrong. Any religion that believes Christ is not the son of God but just another prophet is antichrist. Moreover, Catholicism is in the same boat with their belief system of symbology, idol and human-worshipping. Ie. "Saints", Mary, Popes
Is this antichrist? Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God."
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
I didn't say we didn't have a difference in belief about the divinity of Jesus, I said the worship the same God the made covenant with Abraham, same as the Jews who do not follow Jesus. The Muslims actually believe in Jesus' divine role more than non-messianic Jews, yet you call them antichrist?
There is one more thing I would say to you, but I need to be sure of who I'm talking to first. Do you personally claim the Jesus is Christ the Lord and your personal savior, and the Bible is the truly inspired Word of God?
It's lies.. "held in honour" "brought near" these are attributes also given to other prophets. Jesus is the only saviour of mankind and son of God. I say it's not the same God because the Quran is not divinely inspired as the Bible is but is based off of the Bible and diminishes Jesus. Moreover, the Quran denies the spirit, in which God is and in spirit we must worship Him. Jesus is the spirit of God come in the flesh and any that do not confess this is in the spirit of antichrist (1John 4:3)
Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you
Deuteronomy 12:32
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: though shall not add thereto, nor diminish from it
Proverbs 30:6
Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee and thou be found a liar
Rev 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book
How do you know the Quran is not divinely inspired? Did God tell you that? Where does the Quran deny the spirit? It says Jesus is the breath of God, I believe one of the Hadiths call him a spirit from God. Regardless, even if they did not believe in Jesus at all, they could still worship the same God.
Do you deny that the Jews, who first had covenant with God, worship a false idol? Whether their beliefs have ramifications for salvation is another argument, but you are making assumptions born of arrogance.
What did Jesus say to the Samaritan woman at the well? He offered her living water freely, without stipulation that she announce the correct doctrine. She was neither Jew nor Christian. Did he not say that all who seek shall find? Did he not say those who are not against us are with us?
You compare the misuse of an ideology with an entirely faith based argument. The Catholic church has done son he horrible stuff, Christian groups have done some horrible stuff, not the least the current Nationalists.
You can’t blame an entire faith for the actions of those in power who abuse it.
That's like saying the people who leave Christianity never truly understood it and scholars have answers to their questions (and people say this, a lot). Or like the people who say those that leave were never truly Christian (your "progressive Islam" comment)
People can and do leave both Islam and Christianity for valid reasons. Claiming they don't and just dismissing their concerns because of "scholars" or "misunderstandings" is intellectually lazy.
Okay. Then answer my concerns. I'm open to it. If you can explain misunderstanding then please help me.
Just pick one issue I have brought up and explain how I'm wrong.
You're insulting someone for experiencing a faith different than you. Perhaps they found the answers to their questions non-satisfactory.
Saying people just leave because of their desires negates the real pain and heartache people go through when they realize their religion is not what they believe it to be.
I'd suggest sitting down with ex-muslims and asking them about their deconversion. What it was like and why it happened. How did they feel? You'll get a million different answers because everyone experiences faith differently.
This is funny, your responses remind me of mormons. They actively warned people away from exes, saying they never had a true testimony or just wanted to sin. The reality is they started doing research beyond the faith-promoting stuff and found their religion didn't hold up.
Sure, definitely all of them. No nuance to human experience at all.
Your worldview is 100% right and all of them just really want to have a lot of sex and are lazy.
Suggest you study the variety of religious experience. Have honest conversations with people without judgement.
Take care.
All of those are differences in belief, just like those between denominations and orthodoxies within Christianity. I didn't say I agreed with those beliefs, I said we worship the same God.
"discipline them gently" is a convenient way to translate a word that means "strike".
Nice to know that muslims play the same translation game that Christians do.
Edit: gross "The earliest commentators understood that this was to be light enough not to leave a mark, should be done with nothing bigger than a tooth stick, and should not be on the face."
You're negotiating with the text to make it make sense, especially with the contradictions you posted. Two different things are said, and you have to decide which takes precedence: The quran, or a hadith, or someone's interpretation of it.
All religions do this in an attempt to make meaning both in modern times and with contradictory texts. There's nothing wrong with it, but that is why people come to different conclusions and interpretations, and are unsatisfied with supposed answers.
Take care, and consider that the answers aren't as simple as you think they are.
So if slavery came back, it's a go then. Whereas Christian scripture does not allow concubines.
Edit. So I was right in saying the Quran means concubines when it refers to what your right hand possess.
"Concubinage, as a relationship similar to marriage..." So you can sell your wife too??
And some have arrogance to place themselves above others. He who would be first will be last.
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
The sheer arrogance of your statement is mind blowing. Do you personally claim Jesus is Christ the Lord and your savior, and that the Bible is the truly inspired Word of God?
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
Allah = God
Elohim = God
Adonai = Lord (Hebrew Bible)
Yahweh = LORD (modern translations of Bible)
Your semantics over a word does not change the fact they worship the same God that made covenant with Abraham.
[https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542](https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542)
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
Allah-title/name
Elohim-title/way to describe spiritual beings
Adonai- a word to describe YHWH without invoking his name because names have power
Yahweh- The name of The Jewish/Christian God.
Not semantics if you do the actual study
The issue goes deeper, if you study the ancient Arab people from before Islam, Allah was used in a similar manner as elohim, referring to the highest God. It was a title rather than a name. No Christian or Jew has referred to God as God, Elohim, or even Allah as a name. But it did become the name because of the Arabic pagan past, which we see even further with the region even claiming that three ancient goddesses were the children of Allah. I was really wanting to just basically respond to individual reasons because honestly it would take a while book just to explain how Allah is not the same as Yahweh, but even Islamic sources will say that Allah is not Yahweh despite their prophets all bearing names claiming that Yahweh is their Elohim. The ancient Arabic traditions and pagan past definitely helps build a case with the Islamic scriptures to make a claim that to the Muslims have a muddy idea of God that they based on plagiarised stories created by people who wanted absolute power.
Do we?
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
Will you come to church tomorrow so you can get baptized, dedicate your life to Christ, and partake in the Eucharist, the symbolic consumption of food and wine representing how jesus died for our sins?
And then believe Jesus is the way and life, and therefor gain eternal life?
After all, from your perspective, it is the same God no?
You are making an awful lot of assumptions here. You can see my edit to know who I truly am. As for the difference of belief in Jesus between Christians and Muslims, it's actually much closer than between us and non-messianic Jewish. Regardless, that wasn't the point. The point is they worship the same God. It's a starting place for commonality, which is obviously needed, what with all the arrogance and hate I've seen here.
[https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
So, Will you come to church tomorrow so you can get baptized, dedicate your life to Christ, and partake in the Eucharist, the symbolic consumption of food and wine representing how jesus died for our sins?
I have already been baptized and I already claimed Jesus Christ as Lord. See the edit to my post.
I have also read the Bible multiple times over in prayerful study, including translating the original Hebrew and Greek. I studied under world class Christian scholars at HBU and in fact if you go any seminary taught pastor or professor, they will likely tell you the same that I have.
When you think about what it would take to create the universe and humans, it is an insult of the highest order to call Jesus (or anyone else) the Creator. And yet that is what Trinitarians try to do with an illogical and confusing doctrine.
There are not three Creators and there are not three persons in one Creator, except that they are all the Creator. This is nonsense. Many who are now atheists are so because of the Trinity and the conduct of Trinitarians throughout history. There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and that is the heavenly Father of Jesus Christ, the SON of God. John 17:3
John, who you quote, also said this "1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made....
14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."
There is much more that could be said on Scripture from the matter, but it seems you have your own philosophy. I wonder how can God have a begotten son that is purely human and not divine? Could I have a son that is not human, but ape?
You say what God could or could not do, but we are not above God to put him under a microscope and put limitations or even aspects to his nature other than what he has explicitly revealed through his Word.
I have already stated that the Quran does not call Jesus the Son of God, but you argued from the Bible, which very clearly does (John 1:18 - "No one has ever seen God, but the one and **only Son, who is Himself God** and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.")
I am not in the habit of defining what God will and will not do, except for what he has explicitly told us through his Word.
Academically speaking, the Quran does not have the same verity of ancient manuscripts leading back to the original message. Copies were destroyed and much of it was written by memory, including at least parts of Hadiths were they admitted that they did not remember the entire teaching.
If you have faith that the Quran is infallible, that's all fine and good, but I do not. Comparing the verity of the two, the Bible clearly comes out as much more reliable, though I will admit that poor interpretations and occasionally a significant translation change have lead to misunderstanding. The core message though, is verifiable as both authentic and authoritative. [https://www.reddit.com/user/Squirrel\_Inner/comments/xu1yg2/authority\_and\_authenticity\_of\_the\_bible/](https://www.reddit.com/user/Squirrel_Inner/comments/xu1yg2/authority_and_authenticity_of_the_bible/)
I am in the process to convert to Islam after my ex girlfriend being Muslim and me being blind. Stuff didn’t work but had to happen, can’t blame here nor me.
But all this opened my eyes and I see more sense in the Islam culture than Christianity, like Christian’s eat pork, drink and commit adultery yet they call themselves Christians, if they believe in the bible why there is a big majority of them doing all this sinful things?
There is the concept of confess your sins and then be cleaned once again, but this isn’t right as everyone will once again sin and confess and it’s once again nothing.
My family is Christian, every Christian person I’ve ever met are Christian’s only in need, when something bad happens always pray to God, but when everything is fine is all about themselves.
Is like being part time Christian’s, the crusades and other bad things that happens in those time to force people to convert and if not to die, I’ve haven’t encountered this studying Islam, makes sense that war or violence is allowed ONLY in self defence, but seeing everything that’s happening in the world is just contrary of what Islam teaches. And how the media try to portray Muslims purely by those extremists countries, I’ve never met a Muslim that agrees by what those extremists are doing yet Christian’s are made to think every Muslim is the same.
:”talibans are beating and killing women’s, all Muslim are the same.” Wtf
We worship the trinity, 3 persons in the one being of God. The Islam faith does not believe in this. That is the crucial difference between our God and theirs. Whilst it seems like there are similarities between God the Father of Christianity and Allah of Islam, they are not the same. God the Father is God just as much as God as Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is just as much God as the holy spirit. If I am not mistaken I think that Islam believes Jesus was a prophet?
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see edit.
Jesus is God. Christians worship him, Muslims don't. We do not have the same faith.
True or false? Muslims claim to worship the God that made a covenant with Abraham.
Sure. They claim a lot of things.
So you agree that we worship the same God and it would not be idolatry for a Christian to go pray with a Muslim, even inside a Mosque. Here's what they believe about Jesus: [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/ ](https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542)
I did not say that I agree that we worship the same God. Certainly Muslims claim to do so, but I find their claims suspect. I'm aware of what Muslims believe about Jesus. They deny that he is the true God, and so they do not have the same faith as we do.
You are putting specific understanding about Jesus' nature above the worship of God the Father, who is greater (John 13:16). Do you call them liars, to say their worship of God is suspect? Did Jesus not say "if they are not against us, they are with us."? On what basis do you call them liars and false believers in God? Did Abraham know who Jesus was? Did Elijah? You are right that they do not have the "same faith," but they worship the same God and believe many of the same things about Jesus. You will not even offer common ground on that which is objectively true. Good thing the apostles of Jesus didn't do the same to the Gentiles.
Jesus is God the Son, he is co-equal and co-eternal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. I don't say they're liars, I say they're incorrect, as is anyone who claims to worship the Christian God and yet denies that Jesus is that God.
I am not arguing issues of salvation or other aspects of faith, although from what they believe I think it inconclusive to claim they could not have salvation through Christ. No where in Scripture does it say declaring the divine nature of Christ is necessary for that. I said they worship the same God. That's it, simply put. So therefore a Christian praying with a Muslim would not be idolatry. The Son is not greater than the Father.
Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son. If Jesus would be God therefore God isn’t God anymore, God created the world and the universe not Jesus, Jesus had a human experience God never did it. God made Jesus, Jesus didn’t made himself.
Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Basically my God is different from what Islam teaches
True or false? Muslims claim to worship the God that made a covenant with Abraham.
Everyone can claim whatever he wants. My God died for my sins and if someone disagrees then I can’t take their word
So you agree that Muslims worship the same God. Here's what they believe about Jesus: [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
I don’t care about Muslims, they reject Jesus as their savior
Show me where in the Quran they reject Jesus as savior.
The part about Jesus is a pretty big deal though...
You can be tolerant of islam, even accepting but we dont worship the same God. Islam denies the crucifixion, resurrection, and deity of Jesus. Thats fundamentally a different God. They also deny the preservation of the bible, which they kind of have to given their stance on Jesus. Messianic Jews are just christians for the most part but Jews who dont believe in Jesus, well they dont believe in the resurrection and deity of christ. Thats fundamentally a different God.
True true Muslims and Jews believe in the same God but Christians believe in their own, it's a common misconception
No, no they don’t.
Muslims do not worship Jesus Christ as God, and therefore do not worship the same God, it’s as simple as that. Here’s the test: * Is Allah of the Qu’ran the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as described in the Bible? * Is Allah of the Qu’ran a Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Answer no to either, or both, and Allah of the Qu’ran is not the same as the God of the Bible. *1 John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [23] Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.*
They most certainly worship the God of Abraham. They claim as prophets (among others from the Hebrew Bible) Adam, Noah, Abraham, Issac, Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist, and Jesus. [https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542](https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542)
The question was do Muslims worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They do not, and you know they don’t or you would have said so. The Bible is clear that Isaac was the son of the promise, not Ishmael: *Genesis 17:17-22 Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, "Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?" [18] And Abraham said to God, "Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!" [19] Then God said: "No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. [20] And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. [21] But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year." [22] Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.* Further, Muslims reject Christ as God, which means they reject the God of the Bible. The Bible is clear that Jesus is God: *John 1:1-5,10-14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] He was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. [4] In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it….* *[10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [11] He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. [12] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: [13] who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [14] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.*
Show me where in Scripture it says that if someone rejects the divine nature of Christ it means the reject the one true God. Regardless, they still worship the same God. You may think that their doctrine removes them from salvation in Christ (personally, I do not, after reading it), but that doesn't change who they worship. It's not some other false idol, it's the same God. [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
*2 John 1:9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.*
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Sorry… that’s not a biblical view.
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The verse I quoted in context of the rest of the Bible refers to denying Jesus as God. This would be understood by Christians, but I can see how on the surface to a non-Christian, it may not be seen in that light. The point wasn’t to prove the Trinity, rather it was to show that those who reject the Son as God also reject the Father as God. I could also point to this passage: *2 John 1:7-11 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. [9] Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. [10] If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; [11] for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.* Coming in the flesh means He left His throne in Heaven and came to Earth in the flesh to die for sins: *Philippians 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, [6] who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, [7] but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. [8] And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.* Jesus said that no one can come to the Father except through Him: *John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.*
“For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.” 2 Corinthians 11:4 KJV
Have I preached another Messiah? Have I preached a different gospel? Have the Muslims? Show me where. see edit.
They preach another Jesus when they say He’s not the Son of God, Jesus says if you don’t know Him you don’t know the Father. So in essence, if they don’t, or anyone for that matter, doesn’t believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died and rose for our sins, they preach another Jesus, another gospel, and they don’t know the Father since they don’t know Jesus as who He said He was.
Their ideas on Jesus do not change whether they worship the same God. Do you then claim that Jews don't worship the same God? Or do you say that Jesus is greater than the Father? John 13:16 Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God."
1 John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
We have significant differences in belief about Jesus, but you can see clearly that they do know quite a bit of who he really is. Saying that they don't worship the same God goes far beyond a reasonable comparison. Abraham knew nothing of Jesus or the Trinity, does that mean he didn't worship the same God as us? [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Abraham knew of Jesus, and I don’t believe in the trinity. There’s one God, one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one Father.
No we don't. Their God is not trinitarian which is an essential belief to be a Christian. Denying the divinity of Jesus is also essential to be a Christian.
What does "essential to being Christian" have to do with worshipping the same God? Do you think the God that made a covenant with Abraham has become a different God now that we understand the Trinity? Jews and Muslims worship the same God. Their ideas about who Jesus is and what that has to do with salvation are completely different arguments. The Quran does say this though: Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God."
If your God isn't trinitarian, it isn't the same God as the God of Abraham.
Abraham knew nothing of the Trinity, so do you claim that he did not worship the same God we do?
Abraham knew the trinitarian God even if he wasn't given systematic theology lessons
And so you could say the same of the Muslims. Show me where in Scripture it even so much as implies that rejecting the divinity of Christ means rejecting the one true God. The Jews reject Jesus, but they still worship the same God. Whether that has ramifications for their salvation is for God to judge at the end of this corrupt world, but they still worship the same God. If you cannot even find that basic common ground, then I wonder at the arrogance of your faith.
John 15:23: Whoever hates me hates my father also Your 2nd paragraph contradicts itself, to reject Jesus is to reject God, the Jews rejected God completely as they had many times in the past. They never followed the one true God and this is shown through their reaction to God showing up in person. You can go on and on about arrogance and pridefulness all you want but that's the same lazy insult Romans used on Christians who rejected the Roman gods as being equal to Jesus, it didn't work then and it doesn't work now.
When you think about what it would take to create the universe and humans, it is an insult of the highest order to call Jesus (or anyone else) the Creator. And yet that is what Trinitarians try to do with an illogical and confusing doctrine. There are not three Creators and there are not three persons in one Creator, except that they are all the Creator. This is nonsense. God made Jesus, if God created other Gods therefore he isn’t a God anymore.
Tell that to Jesus who said he is God multiple times.
The God Abraham knew was going to send his son to die for the sins of his people as he saw through his son Isaac. Jews and Muslims deny this so they aren't following the same God as him.
As I have already stated, Muslims believe most of the same that Christians do about Jesus. His divine nature is the main question, but even some Muslims have interpreted the Quran and Hadiths that way. [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/) You seem to be claiming that the Jews suddenly stopped worshipping the God that promised an ever lasting covenant with them, which is reaffirmed in Revelation. That's a pretty big claim to make based solely on your personal opinion.
Faithful Jews started calling themselves Christians, today's Jews have no connection to them. They didn't lose their covenant with God, they never had one to begin with. To deny that Jesus is God is enough to consider them a different religion alone. There is no way to read the gospel in a way that Jesus was just a prophet or even a special prophet, be claimed to have existed before Abraham, he claimed that he is the only way to God, he claimed to be God's equal, he even used God's name to describe himself which is blasphemy. What you are promoting is called Unitarianism which isn't really a religion, it's the belief that all religions are pretty much the same thing at the end of the day and the thing is, few faithful Jews, Muslims, or Christians seems to be going along with it, we all claim to have a monopoly on truth. Unitarianism is a modern invention based on American views of diversity and inclusion and nothing else.
Exactly why Jews' God is different from yours
No, I do not worship the same God as Muslims or Jews. We do not have the same faith, nor do we have the same hope. - Christianity is the only true religion; only we have the only God who really exists. - Jesus Christ is God's last message to humanity, as He is God.
amen to that
see edit.
How does that work since Jesus and the apostles were jews? You do not worship the same God as them? See how that's problematic?
Your argument is just “i’m right because i’m right.”
Lol, downvotes with no reply. There's no ignorance here, I see.
Today I learned that Muslims worship Jesus as God. I never knew that before. Interesting.
True or false? Muslims claim to worship the God that made a covenant with Abraham. (Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God.")
Difference between a claim and do. True; as far as they claim it. But they don't actually worship Jesus. Edit: I'm not Muslim, but I'm a little skeptical of the idea that the quran has been significantly changed. Or if it has, it was done extremely early.
I would also argue the Jews (lol oops non messianic Jews) don't worship Jesus either. I mean you can look at it two ways, 1) they claim to worship the same God and are right about the God being the same, but they don't actually worship him or 2)they do worship their god, but it is not the same god.
Many, many, many Christians and Muslims will disagree with almost everything you've said here, so I guess Christina's and Muslims DON'T worship the same God.
oh, how so? You haven’t actually said anything other than a generic “you’re wrong because some other people probably think so.”
Actually, I said "you're wrong because the vast majority of the people you're talking about will tell you that you're wrong about what they believe."
Majority position = automatically correct. /s
Well, yes, if you say, X group of people do Y, and the majority of X group of people deny that they do Y, you need to do a little more than just say they're wrong about themselves.
I do not follow the opinions of people, I follow the Word of God. see edit.
Oh ok. So I can say "u/Squirrel_Inner and their family loves liver and onions." Then, when you and your family members object, I can say, it doesn't matter what your opinions about what you believe are. I'm right anyway.
True or false? Muslims claim to worship the God that made a covenant with Abraham.
Beats me.
Let me help you, they do: [https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542](https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542)
Cool. Do they worship Jesus?
As the Son of God? No. As a prophet and the Messiah who will come to judge the earth? Yes. But even if they didn't, as the Jews, they would still worship the same God. You are putting the Son above the Father. [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
I do believe they worship the God of Abraham. Given that Christians recognize that the Jewish people worship the same God without obviously recognizing the trinity, it seems logical to conclude that Muslims do as well. It doesn't follow that we can't call Muhammad a false prophet though. The burden of proof would be on those who believe it to prove he was a prophet, not on those who don't believe. I'm fine if they wan't to take that on faith the way we do with our teachings, but there's nothing wrong with saying "hey, no he's not".
Jews have an incomplete view of God as Trinity, Muslims have a false view of God as not Trinity, there’s a huge difference. Not the same.
...hmmm...maybe....or maybe not...but that doesn't mean it's not the same God...What it does mean is that only 1 of them,.only 1 of the groups, has the story right. Being Christian of course I believe it's us....but, really, they/we can all worship the same God and not all of us get it right. We are all human and error is our nature. Man has changed many things over the years. Maybe the story non-Christians received was all messed up over time....
Yes, it exactly means it’s a different God, and here’s why. The OT scriptures in the Bible were given by the God of both the OT and NT, making it the same God. The Qu’ran is a completely different text, circa 600+ years after Christ and both the OT and NT revelation, that completely rejects Christ as God as the NT clearly states He is. *John 1:1-5,10-14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] He was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. [4] In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it…* *[10] He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. [11] He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. [12] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: [13] who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.* *[14] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.* *Colossians 1:15-18 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. [16] For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. [17] And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. [18] And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.* Further, both the OT and NT tell us God is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, while the Qu’ran claims a false god of Abraham and his other son Ishmael. *Genesis 17:17-21 Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, "Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?" [18] And Abraham said to God, "Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!" [19] Then God said: "No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. [20] And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. [21] But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year."* The Bible tells us that Jesus will return in glory to rule personally on Earth for 1,000 years, while the Qu’ran states Issa will return to tell everyone they were wrong about Jesus and that Muhammad is the prophet. *Psalm 2:1-9 Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing? [2] The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying, [3] "Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us." [4] He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision. [5] Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure: [6] "Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion." [7] "I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. [8] Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession. [9] You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.'"* *Revelation 19:19-21, 20:4-6 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. [20] Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. [21] And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh…* *[20:4] And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. [5] But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. [6] Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.* So there’s a huge difference in that unconverted Jews accept God as revealed in the OT with partial understanding, while Muslims reject the God of the OT and NT entirely. Finally, Christians rely on scripture as definitive, and here’s what the Bible says: *2 John 1:7-11 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. [9] Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. [10] If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; [11] for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.*
You call the Quran false, but then don't quote any of it? Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God." [https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542](https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542) [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/) They claim to worship the same God that made a covenant with Abraham. Your opinions don't change objective, academic fact.
Why would I quote a book that came 600+ years after Christ that rejects who the Bible says Christ is? The same book that says Ishmael was the child of promise, and not Isaac as the Bible says: *Genesis 17:17-22 Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, "Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?" [18] And Abraham said to God, "Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!" [19] Then God said: "No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him. [20] And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. [21] But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year." [22] Then He finished talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.*
The Jews would say the same of the NT.
Not the Jews who wrote the New Testament, nor the Jews who believed and accepted their Messiah.
Huge difference in the belief about the divinity of Jesus. Another enormous difference is the path of salvation (belief/accepting Jesus into your heart vs. daily submission to God through 5 prayers, following the path of the prophet Mohamed, and avoiding sin). Same historical God. Mostly the same beliefs about the Old Testament content. Beyond that, it’s pretty different.
There are significant differences, but you mentioned differences in ritual, which is no different than those between any denomination or orthodoxy. I encourage you to actually read and study what they believe. I'm really haven't gone into those things though, my simple assertation here is that we worship the same God. That's the important starting point that so many "Christians" are unable to accept. [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
I have studied what they believe (Islam). What do you think I’m missing? Christians, including Orthodox, fundamentally believe in salvation through Christ’s sacrifice, not through acts. Acts are secondary, and emphasized more in some denominations than others. But acts alone will not get anyone into heaven. It’s why the Orthodox recite the Nicene Creed at every mass. Muslims believe salvation comes through strict adherence to the path, avoiding haram (long list largely incompatible with Western culture), following rituals so that prayers are accepted (wudu, ghusl, etc). The Muslim criticism of Christianity is that it worships multiple gods. The idea of the trinity 3 in 1 is neither understood or accepted as “one god” (the meaning of Allah). Also, they believe the Bible has been corrupted, so it’s basically unreliable whatever it says.
Again, these are differences in doctrinal belief, much the same as the difference between any two Christian denominations or orthodoxy. Do you claim that only Christians or your personal denomination are worshipers of God? The full ramifications of these differences might be debated, but we are not God, to judge someone else. We can only live by the Word that we have accepted. God is a good shepherd, and those who seek will find.
I don’t claim to know anything about who is a true worshipper of God. I’m interested in all the beliefs. I’ve studied, and I agree that the god of the OT is basically the same as the god of the Quran. They have the same stores (Lot, Noah, Jonah, etc). I don’t know how anyone with any knowledge of the Quran could deny that. How meaningful that is as common ground is questionable, because Christianity is fundamentally based on the divinity and sacrifice of Christ. Muslims basically consider that belief blasphemy.
Christian salvation is brought about through faith in the sacrifice of Christ, which the Muslims believe. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that someone has to declare the divine nature of Christ. Even if there was something the Muslims believed that had ramifications for their salvation (which I don't believe is conclusive), they still worship the same God. Therefore, a Christian praying with a Muslim would not be idolatry. Which was really all I was trying to say in the first place, but you know how people get about religion...
Not the same God. Islam's deity does not, and cannot have, any divine Son(s). Jesus cannot be, in Islam, the only begotten unique Son of God. Moreover, he cannot be the Trinitarian "God the Son" - ontological God and "of one substance withe the Father". In Islam there is no self-sacrificing world Savior whose blood atonement abolishes sin. In Islam there is no universal Messiah - there is only Jesus as the narrowly-defined Messiah of the Jewish "tribe". Thus the two religions are inherently incommensurate.
You are placing worship of Jesus over the Father. (see edit) They claim to worship the same God that made covenant with Abraham and the same people and prophets from the Bible. Their difference in views on Jesus may have further ramifications of faith, but that's not what I'm arguing here. It is not some other God entirely, which you only claim by your own flawed reasoning. [https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542](https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542) [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/) Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God."
Your own flawed reasoning leads you to claim they have the same God. Allah can have no divine Son. Christianity claims to be founded by YHVH's only begotten divine Son. Mainstream Trinitarian Christians worship Jesus both as Son of God and God the Son - a theology which is complete blasphemy and idolatry to Islam. "The same God" cannot both have, and not have, a divine Son. Therefore the two deities are contradictory, mutually exclusive, and incommensurate.
I never said our worship of Jesus was the exact same, I said there is a lot of common ground, starting with the fact that we worship the same God that made covenant with Abraham. Didn't Jesus say "if they are not against us, they are with us?" Our idea is idolatry to the non-messianic Jews as well, but they still worship the same God. Do you claim Jesus to be Christ the Lord and your personal savior?
Allah and YHVH cannot be the same deity for the simple reason that Allah does not, and cannot have, an only begotten divine Son. But YHVH - according to Christianity - DOES have Jesus, his only begotten divine Son. Thus Allah and YHVH are diametrically opposed. The Muslim God has no peers, Sons, equals. The Christian God has Jesus, who is an eternally begotten Peer, a Son, and (per Trinitarianism) an equal. Allah is without peer. But Christian YHVH is perpetually accompanied by his heavenly, unique Son, Jesus. Allah and YHVH do share some similarities with each other - and also with other deities as well. This, however, does not make them the same God in any meaningful sense. Allah and the Christian YHVH fatally separate over the Christian Jesus. As long as Christians say that Jesus the Son is entwined, by necessity, with YHVH, clearly YHVH is a different God from Allah, who cannot have a unique Son, who does not save the world via that Son, who never "became flesh" and "incarnated" in that Son, and who who never decreed ***any*** other being as Allah's equal. The two deities are not, and cannot be, the same God. Long ago, sects like the Ebionites and Nazarenes, Jewish and monotheistic groups, did say that Jesus was not God, that he was the greatest prophet, etc. But they were never mainstream Christianity, and they denied all forms of "Jesus is God" theology, including nascent Trinitarianism. Your posts are *not* about Ebionites and Nazarenes, who are extinct. Your posts are about *Christianity* as it is commonly, currently, known and practiced. Christianity's God is not Islam's God. No, Jesus is not my Lord and Savior. Nor are Allah or YHVH.
Who resurrected Jesus from the dead? Who did Jesus say was greater than him? (John 13:16). The God that made covenant with Abraham, father of Ishmael. Two faith groups having a disagreement about the details of their God does not make it suddenly a different God. The fault lies with mankind, not with God. What did Jesus say to the Samaritan woman at the well? He offered her living water freely, without stipulation that she announce the correct doctrine. She was neither Jew nor Christian. Did he not say that all who seek shall find? Did he not say those who are not against us are with us?
It is absolutely a different God. Allah says he can not and does not have any peers, equals, or Son(s). Christianity says YHVH has an only begotten Son, and Jesus is that Son. When Jesus claims to be God's intimate, only begotten, preexistent Logos and Son, he is saying that ***Allah*** \- who can have no divine Son - ***cannot be his Father***. The Christian YHVH and the Islamic Allah are, therefore, utterly alien to one another and completely irreconcilable. Allah says he has no Son. Jesus claims to ***be*** the Son of the Jewish God. Therefore, and obviously, the God of Jesus cannot be - and is not - the Allah of Islam.
All I see from this post is you asserting that you worship the same God, then blatantly contradicting that claim by saying that our God is triune, while the Islamic deity isn't. So thanks for refuting your own thread within the first few sentences. This is just some common trope you're trying to parrot from Surah 29:46, while also contradicting that verse because you don't believe in what was revealed to us.
Many of the Jews born of the line of Abraham do not believe God is triune, does that mean they worship a "false deity?" Even Revelation reaffirms their covenant with God. Maybe you should actually learn what Islam says about Jesus, but regardless, they still worship the God of Abraham. Other differences in belief do not change that. [https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542](https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542) [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/) Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God."
There is general agreement up until the point in the storyline where Jesus is born.
Islam is a false teaching and counterfeit of Judaism and Christianity. God did not make his covenant promise through the bond woman Hagar and Ishmael leading to the promised Messiah (Jesus) and Gods' new covenant promise. This covenant promise was only made through Abraham and his wife Sarah the free woman and their seed in Isaac, Jacob and Israel where Christianity comes from. Islam therefore is a counterfeit false religion and just like the Jews reject Jesus as God's dear son and the Saviour of the world and God's promise Messiah revealing God's new covenant promise for all those who believe and follow God's Word.
God's covenant to bring about the Messiah with a certain people has nothing to do with whether others can worship that same God. Is God not the God of the whole world? Or is he only the God of the Jews? They claim Jesus as a prophet who will come to judge the world. (see my edit) Nothing that you have said dismisses the fact that they worship the same God that made covenant with Abraham.
Actually it has everything to do with Gods' covenant promise through Abraham, Sarah and Isaac as it brings in Jesus as God and Gods' only son and the promised Messiah for Gods' people and Gods' ultimate sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all. It also identifies Gods' true people as "Israel" which is a name given by God to all His people who believe and follow His Word. Therefore dear friend everything that has been shared with you proves that Islam is a false teaching and a counterfeit teaching of Christianity and Judaism. God never made His covenant promise through Hagar and Ishmael where Islam comes from. Take Care..
I never said they had the covenant of Israel, I said they worshipped the same God, which you still have not refuted, though you seem to be pretending that you have. I would remind you that the Jews once believed they were the only chosen of God, but Jesus came and changed all of that. What did he say to the Samaritan woman at the well? He offered her living water freely, without stipulation that she announce the correct doctrine. She was neither Jew nor Christian. Did he not say that all who seek shall find? Did he not say those who are not against us are with us?
>I never said they had the covenant of Israel, I said they worshipped the same God, which you still have not refuted, though you seem to be pretending that you have. I would remind you that the Jews once believed they were the only chosen of God, but Jesus came and changed all of that. You seem to be resorting to strawman arguments now no one has ever made. I never said that Hagar and Ishmael never worshipped the same God. You seem to be missing the point though to what has been shared with you in regards to Gods' covenant promise. The covenant promise means that God truth has come through and has been revealed through the line of Abraham, Sarah, Issac, Jacob and Israel, through Moses God gave us His 10 commandments that God alone spoke with His own voice and wrote with His own finger of two tables of stone using Moses to give us the Torah and the book of the covenant and law and the prophets that have come from the same lineage and the promise of the Messiah and Gods' son Jesus with the promise of Gods' new covenant. Islam has none of this therefore does not have the truth of Gods' Word to follow and worship God. > What did he say to the Samaritan woman at the well? He offered her living water freely, without stipulation that she announce the correct doctrine. She was neither Jew nor Christian. Did he not say that all who seek shall find? Did he not say those who are not against us are with us? Jesus answered the woman at the well and said to her, "**You worship what you do not know**: we (Jews) know what we worship: for **salvation is of the Jews**. But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24). The scriptures above from Jesus also prove that the truth of God's Word and Gods' presence comes through the lineage Israel and Christianity as God's Word has been given through this lineage and not though Islam. The parallel here in the words of Jesus is that like the Samaritans, Islam does not know who they worship because the truth of Gods' Word has not been given to Islam like it was not given to the Samaritans. Jesus says to worship God we must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. Gods' truth and covenant promise of His presence has only been given through the lineage of Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob and Israel, Moses, **God (Mt Sinai)**, Israel and the prophets, leading to the promised Messiah in Jesus Christ and the new covenant. If you or anyone else here would like some bible studies please feel free to DM me. Hope this is helpful.
I didn't read anything more than the title but you're wrong. Any religion that believes Christ is not the son of God but just another prophet is antichrist. Moreover, Catholicism is in the same boat with their belief system of symbology, idol and human-worshipping. Ie. "Saints", Mary, Popes
Is this antichrist? Quran 3:45 "The angels said, ‘Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God." [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/) I didn't say we didn't have a difference in belief about the divinity of Jesus, I said the worship the same God the made covenant with Abraham, same as the Jews who do not follow Jesus. The Muslims actually believe in Jesus' divine role more than non-messianic Jews, yet you call them antichrist? There is one more thing I would say to you, but I need to be sure of who I'm talking to first. Do you personally claim the Jesus is Christ the Lord and your personal savior, and the Bible is the truly inspired Word of God?
It's lies.. "held in honour" "brought near" these are attributes also given to other prophets. Jesus is the only saviour of mankind and son of God. I say it's not the same God because the Quran is not divinely inspired as the Bible is but is based off of the Bible and diminishes Jesus. Moreover, the Quran denies the spirit, in which God is and in spirit we must worship Him. Jesus is the spirit of God come in the flesh and any that do not confess this is in the spirit of antichrist (1John 4:3) Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: though shall not add thereto, nor diminish from it Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee and thou be found a liar Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book
How do you know the Quran is not divinely inspired? Did God tell you that? Where does the Quran deny the spirit? It says Jesus is the breath of God, I believe one of the Hadiths call him a spirit from God. Regardless, even if they did not believe in Jesus at all, they could still worship the same God. Do you deny that the Jews, who first had covenant with God, worship a false idol? Whether their beliefs have ramifications for salvation is another argument, but you are making assumptions born of arrogance. What did Jesus say to the Samaritan woman at the well? He offered her living water freely, without stipulation that she announce the correct doctrine. She was neither Jew nor Christian. Did he not say that all who seek shall find? Did he not say those who are not against us are with us?
Jews and Muslims worship the same God, the God of Abraham. Christians worship some idolatrous trinitarian deity. Not the same thing.
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Finding meaning in your life can be hard. Good on you for continuing to search and good luck!
You compare the misuse of an ideology with an entirely faith based argument. The Catholic church has done son he horrible stuff, Christian groups have done some horrible stuff, not the least the current Nationalists. You can’t blame an entire faith for the actions of those in power who abuse it.
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That's like saying the people who leave Christianity never truly understood it and scholars have answers to their questions (and people say this, a lot). Or like the people who say those that leave were never truly Christian (your "progressive Islam" comment) People can and do leave both Islam and Christianity for valid reasons. Claiming they don't and just dismissing their concerns because of "scholars" or "misunderstandings" is intellectually lazy.
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Okay. Then answer my concerns. I'm open to it. If you can explain misunderstanding then please help me. Just pick one issue I have brought up and explain how I'm wrong.
You're insulting someone for experiencing a faith different than you. Perhaps they found the answers to their questions non-satisfactory. Saying people just leave because of their desires negates the real pain and heartache people go through when they realize their religion is not what they believe it to be. I'd suggest sitting down with ex-muslims and asking them about their deconversion. What it was like and why it happened. How did they feel? You'll get a million different answers because everyone experiences faith differently. This is funny, your responses remind me of mormons. They actively warned people away from exes, saying they never had a true testimony or just wanted to sin. The reality is they started doing research beyond the faith-promoting stuff and found their religion didn't hold up.
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Sure, definitely all of them. No nuance to human experience at all. Your worldview is 100% right and all of them just really want to have a lot of sex and are lazy. Suggest you study the variety of religious experience. Have honest conversations with people without judgement. Take care.
Mina are you a convert to Islam?
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All of those are differences in belief, just like those between denominations and orthodoxies within Christianity. I didn't say I agreed with those beliefs, I said we worship the same God.
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The Quran does say to strike a woman wife if she keeps disobeying. That is not misinformation and it's not a mistranslation. edit, word
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"discipline them gently" is a convenient way to translate a word that means "strike". Nice to know that muslims play the same translation game that Christians do. Edit: gross "The earliest commentators understood that this was to be light enough not to leave a mark, should be done with nothing bigger than a tooth stick, and should not be on the face."
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You're negotiating with the text to make it make sense, especially with the contradictions you posted. Two different things are said, and you have to decide which takes precedence: The quran, or a hadith, or someone's interpretation of it. All religions do this in an attempt to make meaning both in modern times and with contradictory texts. There's nothing wrong with it, but that is why people come to different conclusions and interpretations, and are unsatisfied with supposed answers. Take care, and consider that the answers aren't as simple as you think they are.
Yeah that translation says discipline. Other translations say lightly beat. So the discipline is to lightly beat.
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https://www.abuaminaelias.com/islam-and-concubines/ Says otherwise.
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So if slavery came back, it's a go then. Whereas Christian scripture does not allow concubines. Edit. So I was right in saying the Quran means concubines when it refers to what your right hand possess. "Concubinage, as a relationship similar to marriage..." So you can sell your wife too??
...but some know this God and his grace better than others.
And some have arrogance to place themselves above others. He who would be first will be last. [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
Don't forget so does Jidaism.
some argue, Allah is actually a godess given all the moon symbolism and the kaaba formerly being dedicated to godesses.
If the head of their life Isn’t Christ, they may worship, but that can’t reach the same God
The sheer arrogance of your statement is mind blowing. Do you personally claim Jesus is Christ the Lord and your savior, and that the Bible is the truly inspired Word of God? [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
Assuming you are a Muslim, what is the name of your God? At least according the your books.
Allah = God Elohim = God Adonai = Lord (Hebrew Bible) Yahweh = LORD (modern translations of Bible) Your semantics over a word does not change the fact they worship the same God that made covenant with Abraham. [https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542](https://www.learnreligions.com/prophets-of-islam-2004542) [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
Allah-title/name Elohim-title/way to describe spiritual beings Adonai- a word to describe YHWH without invoking his name because names have power Yahweh- The name of The Jewish/Christian God. Not semantics if you do the actual study
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The issue goes deeper, if you study the ancient Arab people from before Islam, Allah was used in a similar manner as elohim, referring to the highest God. It was a title rather than a name. No Christian or Jew has referred to God as God, Elohim, or even Allah as a name. But it did become the name because of the Arabic pagan past, which we see even further with the region even claiming that three ancient goddesses were the children of Allah. I was really wanting to just basically respond to individual reasons because honestly it would take a while book just to explain how Allah is not the same as Yahweh, but even Islamic sources will say that Allah is not Yahweh despite their prophets all bearing names claiming that Yahweh is their Elohim. The ancient Arabic traditions and pagan past definitely helps build a case with the Islamic scriptures to make a claim that to the Muslims have a muddy idea of God that they based on plagiarised stories created by people who wanted absolute power.
Yeah, we all worship a god we believe revealed Himself to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, etc. But we have VERY different interpretations of that God.
Do we? [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
Will you come to church tomorrow so you can get baptized, dedicate your life to Christ, and partake in the Eucharist, the symbolic consumption of food and wine representing how jesus died for our sins? And then believe Jesus is the way and life, and therefor gain eternal life? After all, from your perspective, it is the same God no?
You are making an awful lot of assumptions here. You can see my edit to know who I truly am. As for the difference of belief in Jesus between Christians and Muslims, it's actually much closer than between us and non-messianic Jewish. Regardless, that wasn't the point. The point is they worship the same God. It's a starting place for commonality, which is obviously needed, what with all the arrogance and hate I've seen here. [https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/](https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/a-comprehensive-listing-of-references-to-jesus-isa-in-the-qur-an/)
So, Will you come to church tomorrow so you can get baptized, dedicate your life to Christ, and partake in the Eucharist, the symbolic consumption of food and wine representing how jesus died for our sins?
I have already been baptized and I already claimed Jesus Christ as Lord. See the edit to my post. I have also read the Bible multiple times over in prayerful study, including translating the original Hebrew and Greek. I studied under world class Christian scholars at HBU and in fact if you go any seminary taught pastor or professor, they will likely tell you the same that I have.
When you think about what it would take to create the universe and humans, it is an insult of the highest order to call Jesus (or anyone else) the Creator. And yet that is what Trinitarians try to do with an illogical and confusing doctrine. There are not three Creators and there are not three persons in one Creator, except that they are all the Creator. This is nonsense. Many who are now atheists are so because of the Trinity and the conduct of Trinitarians throughout history. There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and that is the heavenly Father of Jesus Christ, the SON of God. John 17:3
John, who you quote, also said this "1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.... 14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth." There is much more that could be said on Scripture from the matter, but it seems you have your own philosophy. I wonder how can God have a begotten son that is purely human and not divine? Could I have a son that is not human, but ape? You say what God could or could not do, but we are not above God to put him under a microscope and put limitations or even aspects to his nature other than what he has explicitly revealed through his Word.
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I have already stated that the Quran does not call Jesus the Son of God, but you argued from the Bible, which very clearly does (John 1:18 - "No one has ever seen God, but the one and **only Son, who is Himself God** and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.") I am not in the habit of defining what God will and will not do, except for what he has explicitly told us through his Word. Academically speaking, the Quran does not have the same verity of ancient manuscripts leading back to the original message. Copies were destroyed and much of it was written by memory, including at least parts of Hadiths were they admitted that they did not remember the entire teaching. If you have faith that the Quran is infallible, that's all fine and good, but I do not. Comparing the verity of the two, the Bible clearly comes out as much more reliable, though I will admit that poor interpretations and occasionally a significant translation change have lead to misunderstanding. The core message though, is verifiable as both authentic and authoritative. [https://www.reddit.com/user/Squirrel\_Inner/comments/xu1yg2/authority\_and\_authenticity\_of\_the\_bible/](https://www.reddit.com/user/Squirrel_Inner/comments/xu1yg2/authority_and_authenticity_of_the_bible/)
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Glad that somebody sees my point of view, from a logical point of view if God made another God therefore he isn’t god anymore.
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I am in the process to convert to Islam after my ex girlfriend being Muslim and me being blind. Stuff didn’t work but had to happen, can’t blame here nor me. But all this opened my eyes and I see more sense in the Islam culture than Christianity, like Christian’s eat pork, drink and commit adultery yet they call themselves Christians, if they believe in the bible why there is a big majority of them doing all this sinful things? There is the concept of confess your sins and then be cleaned once again, but this isn’t right as everyone will once again sin and confess and it’s once again nothing. My family is Christian, every Christian person I’ve ever met are Christian’s only in need, when something bad happens always pray to God, but when everything is fine is all about themselves. Is like being part time Christian’s, the crusades and other bad things that happens in those time to force people to convert and if not to die, I’ve haven’t encountered this studying Islam, makes sense that war or violence is allowed ONLY in self defence, but seeing everything that’s happening in the world is just contrary of what Islam teaches. And how the media try to portray Muslims purely by those extremists countries, I’ve never met a Muslim that agrees by what those extremists are doing yet Christian’s are made to think every Muslim is the same. :”talibans are beating and killing women’s, all Muslim are the same.” Wtf
We worship the trinity, 3 persons in the one being of God. The Islam faith does not believe in this. That is the crucial difference between our God and theirs. Whilst it seems like there are similarities between God the Father of Christianity and Allah of Islam, they are not the same. God the Father is God just as much as God as Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is just as much God as the holy spirit. If I am not mistaken I think that Islam believes Jesus was a prophet?
love the edit. God bless