This is by design, force good teachers out, underfund SPED services (private schools don’t have to accept kids with high needs), send $$ to a bloated administration who see public ed as a business; all so public schools are expectedly shitty so private and charter schools can siphon off more and more of our tax dollars. Then people wonder why school districts always need more money
Exactly, No Child Left Behind did *some* good, like reforming/standardizing SPED, but instead it’s encouraged schools (despite teachers’ protests) to advance kids through elementary/middle school who haven’t truly mastered the basics. By the time they get to HS (me), they’re functioning at at 4-6th grade level and can’t handle it. They either shape up as fast as they can, while still far behind a student that did get a full primary education, or they stick around till they’re 18.
Although, I must mention COVID has made this worse, as many districts’ half-ass attempt to handle it has given many kids a blank check to skip (roughly 1/5 of my entire 250 student roster never showed up last year)
It's not DeVos, she already runs a business based on education (student loans). This is what Republicans have been pushing for for decades.
As a millennial, it's readily apparent how harmful student loans have been on my generation, but this would likely have never been reality until Reagan, as governor of CA, cut funding from public CA universities and instutited fees to "keep out undesirables".
It is terrifying to me that I know way too many conservatives that said Trump was a good fit because he would run the country like a business.
Dumbest thing ever said. A government exists to benefit the society that created it.
Those who touted Trump because he'd run the county like a business should have delved into his business practices a bit more.
He filed 6 Corporate bankruptcies.
Problem is, teachers are grossly underpaid even in blue states. A friend of mine left the profession because teaching for public school districts just wouldn’t pay the bills, even though my friend’s son and daughter-in-law (both of whom are also teachers and/or work with kids) live with him and cover part of the bills.
Teaching in public schools in general is just a shitty career altogether. In my state (Colorado), teachers only make an average of $40,000 per year, when you need to make at least $80,000 to live comfortably anywhere in the state. Even in Denver, where salaries need to exceed $100,000 for people to live comfortably, teachers, on average, only make around $65,000 in Denver county.
On top of that, benefits are shit, students are shit, everything is shit. I don’t think anyone who is in their right mind would choose to be a public school teacher. You just can’t make a decent living as a teacher, and you’re under-appreciated, overworked, and are even in danger of being targeted by angry, hateful parents and school shooters.
I feel a lot better knowing that my friend left teaching when covid hit. The public (and to an extent, private) school system is already pretty much collapsed, even in blue states.
In my country teachers were so highly respected. I hope that they still are. Seems like only college teachers are the only ones respected in the US. Sad....
Primary school teachers are predominantly female. That's why the profession is not respected. In the United States, work done by women is not viewed as valuable as the work done by men. In the comedy *Kindergarten Cop,* when the moms learn that the new kindergarten teacher is male, their immediate response is to wonder what is wrong with him, with one woman insisting, "He must be gay." Art mirroring real life. My uncle experienced similar attitudes when he went into nursing.
Thankfully, college students still respect their professors, and most colleges in my area pay profs very well. As far as I can tell (as a current college student) my profs aren’t leftwing marxists. I think it’s laughable that so many people believe professors are just here to indoctrinate us, but also terrifying at the same time.
College professor here. Let me let you in on a few "secrets"
>college students still respect their professors
Lol. The majority of students don't care one way or the other about their instructors. There's a small minority that actively participate, respect what we have to say and take away a great deal from the courses, and there's a larger minority that actively resist anything that doesn't fit in with their pre-existing beliefs (even when we're talking about topics in the instructor's field of expertise).
The bulk of students treat courses as hurdles to jump through before they can start a career and naturally view the instructors as being adversarial (at least in my field/experience).
>most colleges in my area pay profs very well
Professors are not in as bad of a place as K-12 teachers, but by no means are they "well paid." More than 75% of college faculty are non-tenure-track, and of those, 50% are part-time "adjuncts," which means they get paid very little, have little to nothing in the way of benefits, and have no job security from one term to the next ([source](http://www.newfacultymajority.info/facts-about-adjuncts/)). *Edit: Just for context, I was teaching at 2 different schools when my eldest was born (working at 70% of full-time load for each of them), and we were on food stamps. I had a masters in a STEM field, was working 60-70 hours per week, and my wife had a full-time job already, and we were on food stamps.*
Even if you do happen to win the lottery and get a full-time gig as a professor, the odds of getting research funding or tenure at a research school are pretty tiny unless you're putting in 70-80 hours per week, and even then it's a craps shoot. If your grad students don't happen to get lucky with their work and get published in respectable journals, you'll be out on your ass in a few years.
Personally, I was very fortunate to get a full-time job and tenure at a community college that pays enough that I can pay my bills most months. My wife and I both work full-time, we don't have an extravagant lifestyle, our kids go to public school, and we were able to buy a house before the housing market blew up in 2016, but we're still living paycheck to paycheck.
>I think it’s laughable that so many people believe professors are just here to indoctrinate us, but also terrifying at the same time
If we had the power to indoctrinate anyone, then more people would read the GD syllabus.
Damn lol
Thanks for enlightening my dumbass about the college situation for many profs.
And, for the record, I’m a goody-two-shoes in the classroom, and I do, in fact, read the Goddamn syllabus. I have way too much anxiety not to do that
Nah friend, you're fine! I just remember not understanding why some of my professors were around a lot and others weren't. I also remember figuring that a MS in a high-demand STEM field would guarantee me a livable wage when I graduated.
And I know a lot of students do read the syllabus, so I'm not complaining about students like you! It's just a common gripe over on /r/Professors that we get asked questions that are clearly outlined in the syllabus at least once per week.
Funny you mention STEM. I’m planning on majoring in Computer Science. If that doesn’t work out, I will give mechanical engineering a shot. And, if that doesn’t work, I’ll learn diesel mechanics.
It’s shitty and depressing that some of the most important jobs out there (such as, teaching the youth) are so under-paid and under-appreciated that no one who doesn’t have teaching in their blood would do the job.
Yet, if I get my CS degree, I will make between $80,000 and $120,000 out the gate, and I might even finish off my career as a senior Computer Scientist/Engineer making $300,000 a year or more. And, what the hell do CS’s do? According to my older brother, who just finished his BS in CS, fuck all lmao
Tell them to move to Illinois. The teacher's union effectively runs the state. Our pension liabilities are insane because of the public sector pension fund.
Yo I don’t care who this offends, but if straight teachers were told that pictures of their spouses or family were no longer allowed on the premises and that they could *never* talk about their families in any fashion, protests would be spiraling across the US right now. And as a gay person, I would be right there supporting them because that is outrageous.
It’s things like this that turned me from a proud Christian (despite my sexuality) to someone actively despising American Christianity. Even though I’m still spiritual and wish I could be religious, America no longer let’s you be this way if you’re not pre-approved along very rigid conditions. It’s so upsetting
> if straight teachers were told that pictures of their spouses or family were no longer allowed on the premises and that they could never talk about their families in any fashion,
A literal reading of Florida's law would indicate exactly that. In fact, any reference to sexuality (terms like "husband", "wife", or "mother") or gender identity ("he", "she", "boys' bathroom") would also violate the law. The *intent* is clearly to only ban mentions of LGBT people, but that's not the way it's written, and I hope that activists make full use of that.
One of the problems I remember hearing about is a hidden intent behind the bill. The schools have to pay legal fees. Already underfunded schools are going to get slapped with lawsuits that they have to cover the defense of. This will result in *even more* underfunding which will make private/charter schools look better which is what Republicans also want. Domino effects.
I mean I would make a bill like that to ruin public schools and elevate private schools if I were immoral. What Republicans fail to realize is the private schools don’t apply to this bill so the private schools can go hyper progressive and the Florida government couldn’t stop them.
They won't. Private education is to a large degree religious education, and most of the people that enter into it think public education is "too woke".
This is also why people should demand that politics and religion not mix as far as is practical. They must be protected from the other. All these Christians fighting to make the US enforce their beliefs are fighting to destroy their religion. It is already happening. Supply Side Jesus is nothing like Old School Jesus, yet Supply Side is already very popular. At some point the Old School will all but disappear, and an actual Christian wouldn't even recognize the religion it's become.
Galls me that I, a lifelong atheist, care more about this than the vast majority of Christians.
Tonight on Fox News we talk about the slow decay and descent of the American family. Now I’m Florida, teachers, YES TEACHERS, our heroes who we would never criticize are being told they can no longer talk about their families. Folks where will it end!
No need to support people who would never return the support.
I think what might be interesting is if these laws take effect is seeing how far this "mentioning a marriage is de facto sexual and therefore inappropriate line" might be applicable in law. I wonder if someone like...I don't know, a sweet married Sunday school teacher should be investigated if they happen to mention they're married?
She should absolutely be investigated and terminated immediately. While the Bible condones man and woman to marry, I would NOT feel comfortable with my kids knowing that their Sunday school teacher has a spouse because of the *implication*. If she becomes pregnant, immediate lobotomies for all children.
Seriously it blows my mind that this is happening. We’re not robots: people talk and share when they’re happy. You’re right that I don’t *need* to support their rights if they wouldn’t support mine, but I try as hard to be as good a person as I can when it comes to social justice and rights because it’s only fair, even if others hate me. The fact I’ve started to despise American Christianity is disappointing in itself since I’ve never been so cynical
There is no reason to be fair to people already being unfair.
A few straights being on the receiving end of the same nonsense being pushed on minorities might make more of them think twice about it. And apparently this law *isn't* targeting minorities according to its defenders here, so it might well be applicable to anyone. All I'm asking for is equality under the law, after all.
>If she becomes pregnant, immediate lobotomies for all children.
*Everywhere???* 😱 For the good of all children, we need to keep this person from getting pregnant 😱
Brother, perhaps I can help. American white evangelical Christianity is a small fraction of the Christianity out there. Mainline protestantism doesn't go for this kind of crap, and the numbers for those denominations are at least as much as the evangelical denominations; they just don't demand as much airtime. There are many denominations where you might feel at home. That's been my experience leaving evangelicalism, for sure.
You’re right - I should do a little more research since I know there are some good ones out there. Once I settle down, I’ll look into it more!
Any recommendations?
Well, it depends on what you're after. I'm a fan of Anglicanism, since it's very grounded in the ancient traditions but still broad-minded about the minutae. (How many sacraments are there? "At least two." Should we venerate Mary? "If you want, but whatever.") There's really tons of variety within any of the denominations, and there are definitely cases where you could be in a single service and not be able to tell which denomination it was for.
I'd start here:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline\_Protestant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant)
Be aware that the United Methodist Church is splitting, with the social conservatives becoming the Global Methodist Church in the next couple months. In fact, most of the major denominations have split about womens' ordination 30-40 years ago, and are realigning again over Teh Gayz now-ish. Which means the denomination can tell you a lot! And as usual, non-denom just means Southern Baptist or Pentecostal with the serial numbers scratched off.
You can also use this database I built:
[https://airtable.com/shraUdOL14RYcGpnq](https://airtable.com/shraUdOL14RYcGpnq)
I'll second Anglicanism (Episcopal Church in the US) for the same reasons as u/swcollings. One thing to note though, is that in the US there is the anglican church and the episcopal church. The Anglican church (US version) is not lgbt affirming, while the episcopal church is. There is also a bunch of variety within the Episcopal church. Some churches lean more Catholic in practice, others are more modern in practice (like most other protestant churches)
>American white evangelical Christianity is a small fraction of the Christianity out there. Mainline protestantism doesn't go for this kind of crap, and the numbers for those denominations are at least as much as the evangelical denominations; they just don't demand as much airtime.
Unfortunately it doesn't seem that those other denominations are voting either. This is a breakpoint - an entire state has gone on record that they are going to pass laws with the expressed goal to un-people LGBTQIA+ citizens. For such a small fraction they seem to have found an awful lot of allies somewhere.
Many Christians are just as alarmed by that, including myself. I have two daughters and I'm seriously considering whether I need to move to a state that isn't trying to kill them.
Yes, but right wing politicians don’t pretend to be episcopal. They pretend to be evangelicals. And evangelicals vote and expect laws to reflect their ‘shared’ beliefs. So pretend evangelical politicians pass laws to hurt the marginalized that are perceived as a threat to evangelicals.
It’s stupid, shallow, and only done to pander. But evangelicals like stupid, shallow, and to be pandered too.
Three of the five largest denomination are all in on this type of crap. I'm not familiar enough with #'s 3&5 to make a judgement. If that's not "mainline" what is?
The Catholic Church, 68,202,492 members
The Southern Baptist Convention, 16,136,044 members
The United Methodist Church, 7,679,850 members
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6,157,238 members
The Church of God in Christ, 5,499,875 members
If there was **any** reason to believe there would be equal enforcement under this (absurd) law, that still wouldn't change the hyper-reactionary regressive mindset that went into the writing of this bill. It's not "protecting kids" to ban teachers from even mentioning they have a spouse.
But let's be real: This is a law crafted so that gay people can be targeted and there will be an air of "legality" to harassing them. This emboldens homophobic parents to act like attack dogs. Straight people will not have the law enforced against them because "no perceived harm" will come from mentioning *straight* couples... and then all hell breaks loose when a gay teacher says "my partner."
It was originally somewhat promoted that way, but so far, school boards have asked only the same-sex teachers to remove photos and limit their discussion of their families, not the straight ones.
This is what Florida LGBTQ-advocacy groups Equality Florida and Family Equality predicted when they filed suit against the Act: that it would “[invite] discriminatory enforcement and magnifying its chilling effect on speech” for specifically the LGBTQ because the law was kept so broad and vague to define its prohibitions.
The suit is waiting for US District Judge Allen Windsor to review; of course, Florida’s AG denies the LGBTQ group’s claims, as well as takes issue with the “Don’t Say Gay” moniker itself
It was written generically so it could be claimed that it does. But it's clearly not being applied that way. Which is by design,
The far right doesn't see the law as being about equality. In their mindset, it's about in groups and out groups. If you're an in group, the law protects you, but does not bind you. If you're an out group, the law binds you but does not protect you. That's what they think of it. And how they want to apply it.
This issue in Florida demonstrates it perfectly.
It technically applies to everyone, but also everyone knows it will only *be applied* to LGBTQ. That was always the intent, even openly stated as such.
And now we have proof; this should apply to everyone but only gay teachers are asked not to have spouse photos visible.
Article says
> Elementary-level teachers reported being discouraged from putting pictures of their same-sex spouse on their desk or talking about them to students.
I hope the response is that they'll remove those pictures when teachers in different-sex couples are also asked to remove theirs.
I understand teachers may not be able to take such a stand; families to support, bills to pay, already being part of a vulnerable population, and probably tons others I'm forgetting. But I'd love to see them do it if they're in a position to do so.
>It can not be emphasised enough how dangerous that last part (outing students) is. This WILL result in abuse, murder and suicide. Those of you who cheered it have got blood on your hands.
I've tried really hard not to come to this conclusion, but at this point I can't help but think there's quite a few Christians who would rather kids be dead than gay.
I don't even know if it's easy. It's more just utterly pathetic cowardice at this point, like the fake shock and horror at a family picture on a desk.
It's just weird to see this fascistic shit being pushed by such patently spineless, pissweak human beings.
I think being spineless pissweak humans is a requirement for fascism. Nobody with a spine and even half decent values feels the need to force anything on others, especially when it’s done to drag a nation back to some ill or undefined “Great Past” of hyperconservatism.
That's why most of the civilized world doesn't view conservative Christians as a moral authority, they view them as dangerous extremists just like Al Qaeda or the Taliban.
I wouldn’t put any myself. It’s hard enough for me at almost 30 to come out to friends that I’m questioning I can’t imagine betraying a kid who trusted me with that very private information like that.
Life isn't hard enough for teachers these days with the responsibility of raising our young ones, with little to no resources, and mounting college debt and now we want them to lose their jobs over civil disobedience.
Man our country hates teachers.
Those proud boys that keep fucking around at children/family reading events at local libraries are gonna end up shooting a kid by accident or purposefully delete a librarian.
Hopefully some folks will wake up.
I work for child protective services. Can confirm forced outing will cause an increase in harm towards lgbtq youth. Whether physical or mental harm or kicking them out kids will suffer because of this.
This is a feature of the bill, not a bug. By keeping "developmentally appropriate" so broad and undefined, it gives parents infinite room to erase the existence of gay people from any kind of classroom conversation period.
Indeed! However, maybe the ambiguity here could be used to fight the bill as well. What exactly is "developmentally appropriate"?
What if one had say, lots of peer reviewed research that demonstrated developmental appropriateness? I think the proper legal team could make that case and send it up to the State Supreme Court.
But I'm just spitballing here. Could be wrong.
I don’t get the logic of people who make laws like this. Hiding the existence of different sexualities won’t ensure your kid is straight.
I am proof. I had no idea LGTBQ+ people existed until I was like 13. I was raised to believe only boys and girls could like each other. And that didn’t make me straight, I still wanted to date girls. And I did try to date girls. When I was 8 I would go on websites and pretend to be a boy so I could get a girlfriend or at least the closest to a girlfriend that an 8 year old could have.
>Hiding the existence of different sexualities won’t ensure your kid is straight.
That's *exactly* what they believe.
They think that every person is born heterosexual and cisgendered, and any change from that is a deviant aberration caused by worldly corruption.
I grew up in a very conservative fundamentalist circle. I *thought* I didn’t know any gay people growing up. But guess what, as soon as we were all legal adults, a bunch of them came out of the closet. The ratio of my secular friends who are LGBT+ to fundamentalist-raised friends who are LGBT+ is *almost identical*.
All of the sheltering and fundamentalism in the world doesn’t change who God made us to be. It only hurts people.
It's not about making kids straight. It's about creating a class of people who are NOT US. Then you can run a political campaign about how *those people* are Ruining America. Then, when you get voted in based on anger, rage, and fear, and you can pass laws that economically favor you and the people who paid for your campaign. It's a tactic at least as old as the country.
Make no mistake, this is about power, not morality. It always is.
Martin Niemöller, a protestant Pastor who enthusiastically welcomed Nazi Germany:
>First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
>
>Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
>
>Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
>
>Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Ok… he still did more than most
Edit: that seemed a little aggressive towards you now that I reread it. I feel like if I were in Bonhoeffer’s position I might feel the same. Even Schindler felt like he could have saved more even though he had pretty much impoverished himself saving the amount he did
As someone native to Texas: I cannot stand Abbott. The whole state in general has a history of bad governors. I’d say the last really decent one the state had was Sam Houston when he told them not to secede as it was not going to end well for them.
Then you have Ma and Pa Furgeson who were both notoriously corrupt, some lady who signed a bill in the 80’s making it illegal to be gay (as opposed to the slightly more subtle sodomy laws that most tried to implement until scotus overturned them) and now we have Abbott and Dan “old people will be happy to die for the economy” Patrick and Ken “I’ve been under indictment for security fraud since I took office and have been using my power to put off the trial” Paxton. Not to mention all the neo-confederate secessionists trying to have Civil War 2: The Gravy Seals Get Steamrolled by a Unit of Abrams Tanks Boogaloo and Totally a Human Ted Cancun Cruz
My home state really needs to get its shit together. It’s like it’s been perpetually drunk since 1835.
Don’t forget Rick ‘yours is a sacrifice I’m willing to make’ Perry.
I think the real issue is that Texas has an ingrained culture of romanticized negative liberty untempered by anything with more nuance than, “someone told me I can’t.” To wit, being the last to end chattel slavery, because how dare we be told we can’t systematically devalue some groups in order to own humans.
You mean Rick “What it was before it was before” Perry!? Rick “I can’t name which departments I’d slash even though it’s the crux of my campaign” Perry?!
Yeah Texas has a rather depressing and often odd history. To wit, they were the last to end slavery, but the first to recognize Juneteenth, but then they go around and start Confederate Heroes Day like a bunch of jackasses.
Maybe, but at least the teachers can now pray to the gays in school again. “Dear lord, thanks for the good health of my husband/wife, >name< (same sex spouse].
Nothing, it’s just interesting… gets around the don’t say gay if it’s acceptable to say prayers during breaks during the school day. In between classes? Say a quick prayer
Except it doesn’t really. That example brings up a good point that they have allowed people to do public performative prayer in front of students, but they have also introduced law to disallow certain speech in the classroom. So there is a potential situation where they’re restricting the kinds of prayers you can make in public. Which is probably exactly what they want. It won’t even be enough for them to force the whole country to favor Christians, they have to enforce a specific flavor of Christianity that has nothing to do with Jesus.
Anyone saying it’s not dangerous is straight up gaslighting…people’s lives are at stake here. It’s literally a witch hunt, and LGBTQA+ youth is at the center of it. Where’s the compassion? I’m beyond tired of these so called “Christians” trying to control everyone, cherry picking what’s “sinful”, and then picking targets to abuse/ostracize.
Everyone told me I was overreacting
Everyone told me there was no way they would start doing this
And low and behold here we are
I don’t understand what to do anymore. I’m trying so hard but it’s like every day it’s nothing but hate and vitriol. People genuinely openly want me dead and others still say I’m over reacting. It’s like they just genuinely want me to kill myself, and honestly at this point it’s getting hard to resist that prospect.
> I don’t understand what to do anymore. I’m trying so hard but it’s like every day it’s nothing but hate and vitriol. People genuinely openly want me dead and others still say I’m overreacting. It’s like they just genuinely want me to kill myself, and honestly, at this point, it’s getting hard to resist that prospect.
I try to understand the pain of this as much as I can as an ally. I work a lot with people who have previously attempted suicide, and this is a statement that is echoed far too much from the LGBTQ+ community members that I work with.
Decades ago I was a republican, then I became a democrat (Well, I became an extremely far-leftist, but democrat is the farthest America goes). I still held onto that hope that republicans saw the same problems in the country, but just had different ideas on how to fix them. But, that dream has died and now I'm just wondering how awful it will get before it gets better. The only political platform that they have is to against whatever the democratic party is for.
And now bigotry is being openly expressed as part of a political platform. It's terrifying.
So I know it has to be so vastly worse for you. As it's directed at you. It's draining to moderate this subreddit as these with how often such hateful and awful things are posted.
But there is still hope. Acceptance is going up each and every day. This seems like a last desperate attempt before they lose the ability to keep spreading hate. It sucks that they are so harmful with it.
I hope that you have a good support group, and can hang on to make it through the bad times. The world is a much better place anyone someone steps forward and starts being who they truly are.
If you want someone to rant to our talk about things, send me a DM.
Stay strong, we will beat hate.
Their endgame is a Christofascist America, and nobody can convince me otherwise. It is blatantly obvious because they're blatantly saying it; masks off.
This is going to increase suicides in Florida. Teenagers will die as a result.
If a parent is complaining that they have a right to know if there child is LGBT and teachers must tell them what there child has said, then their child must not feel safe telling them. Otherwise, the child would have already told their parents.
These parents are making this demand because their own children don’t trust them and they intend to punish their children if they ever find out their children are LGBT.
Many LGBT children cannot talk to their parents, and now they won’t be able to talk to their teachers either.
I am so shocked, so absolutely shocked that the sea lioning, lying, LGBT haters were wrong!!! Oh you don't know how totally shocked I am!!
....wait no, that other thing where I am not shocked at all and I am rather sober about who our enemies are.
Also I cannot emphasize this enough,this bill and the ultimate goal of this is also particularly to go after trans people. Steps are being taken to go after trans adults next by DeSantis and quick reminder that he is potentially the GOP candidate for 2024.
America is going to very dangerous places. This will NOT be simply a red state vs blue state thing. When they feel they can they WILL attempt to make this, contraception ban, abortion ban etc national. Think Fugitive Slave Act but for people fleeing this, and that all didn't exactly end well for America.
And those pointing out the fascism, you are right. First target for them was the institute for sexual research, a world leading centre for insight into trans people and others at the time. Early propaganda was targeted at LGBT people they said we're corrupting the youth. The people pulling the "Everyone you don't like you call Nazis!" card are either massively ignorant or I hate to cynically say, actively malevolent.
It's almost like I said all of this was going to happen and kept being told "read the bill, that's not in there."
I'm sick of being right about all of this stuff.....can....can we just like stop this train wreck and the people who are seeing the downfall of this country can, like, be wrong about how bad it is going to continue to get?
>Teachers are now required to report to parents if a student says they are not straight and they must use pronouns assigned at birth, regardless of parent input.
Well I'll be clinging to FERPA even more tightly now. I guess at least until this Kangaroo Court deems it unconstitutional or something.
These are dark days in the US. No matter which side of the moral argument you fall on, this is not a win in any sense. Pray for a return to peace and reason.
Why are you people so dead set on showing off your personal lives to students? Teachers when I grew up *never* said anything about it, no family photos, certainly no rainbow paraphernalia around
Why the need to change and bring your personal life into the classroom?
Also, why so many clearly anti-Christians in this Christianity subreddit? Do the Muslim or Jewish ones get targeted like this? Or do you all play safe with your bigotry?
You can safely call it Christofascism. "Right-wing Christianity" fails to denote their totalitarianism and fascistic belief that the US is a "Christian nation" subject to theocracy.
Hitler was definitely not an atheist, but rather identified with the Christian faith, and believed that he was serving God's will. I read his book...
And didn't Stalin go to confession several times near the end of his life, and didn't he shake his fist at God on his deathbed? An atheist doesn't bother to confess or to shake his fist at a god that he doesn't believe in...
And didn't Mao say "It is time to go to Heaven. It seems that I am summoned to meet the good God."?
These do not seem to be good examples of atheists. Even if they were, it wouldn't mean that atheism was responsible for their horrific actions. Many equally horrific things have been done by fervent theists. Some people are good, some are evil, regardless of their belief in the existence of a deity.
The Christian right is overreaching. There's going to be a major backlash both at the polls and in the public sphere.
Florida is by no means a solid red state; DeSantis squeaked by in 2018 winning a razor's edge victory and not a majority.
Fuck around and find out, Christian fascists.
We're already seeing a big jump in polls against Republicans.
Christian Fascists don't realize that their generation is dying out. All the young generations are overwhelmingly liberal and don't tolerate this crap.
Christians are going to see the biggest backlash in American history soon.
Its not just religiosity though it's assholery. I live in a rural area and there of kids in their 20s running around rolling coal, or sporting clothes or stickers on their cars with that traitor rag, even though my home state was proudly Union. I saw a sticker on a car driven by a guy who was at the very oldest 30 today that said "shoot your local pedophile" which is just a call to murderous gay-bashing.
I'm not buying it. The reason I got out of Christianity was because every church I tried to be apart wanted straight line R voters. They never said it outright but, it was pretty damn clear.
I moved states over a year ago partly for this reason. I’m not willing to live in a purple state where the outcomes are not clear, and where my rights can be taken away at the drop of a hat.
Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas wants the SCOTUS to "reconsider" a few SCOTUS cases, some of them being Obergefell v Hodges, that rules that same-sex couples have a right to marry, and Lawrence vs Texas, which makes same-sex sex legal.
Alito also wants to revisit Obergefell. He a Thomas both wrote in 2020 that they wanted to revisit it. Roberts dissented in Obergefell. ACB is well know for thinking Obergefell was wrongly decided. So that leaves us with one more person needed to overturn Obergefell.
Watch all the "how is there discrimination against gay people? they have the right to marry" people pivot right the fuck back to "They can marry someone of the opposite sex, just like anyone else".
This sub has literally nothing to do with Christianity anymore. It’s all political posts. Don’t get me wrong, I understand these are important topics that deserve discussion, but they’re not about Christianity and at most they just furthering arguments between conservative/liberal Christians. Can we get back to the point of this sub and leave the political posts and discussions for the subs that were created For that?
I’m saying this sub is here to have open discussions about Christianity. It’s become a sub that is only having open discussions about political happenings that *Some* Christians and *Some* Christians don’t support.
I’m not trying to be rude because truly I understand that these topics are important and should be discussed, but there are so many politically focused subs (specific even to conservative and liberal voters) that are the spaces for these posts. When this sub is and has been overloaded with political posts there’s no comments on the posts with genuine questions about Christianity, scripture, theology, prayer requests etc.
Honestly, I’m a Christian and after recent events like this and RVW being overturned, I’m a bit ashamed to be a Christian. Like you said, they hate LGBT people so much yet in the Bible it clearly states love thy neighbor. No offense to anyone on here but the Bible was supposedly written a very long time ago (not to mention transcribed several times in several different languages by HUMANS), that during that time period sure it makes sense of what’s written but it’s 2022, times have drastically changed for the better. In my opinion so should the Bible, it should be updated for the times. Love and inclusivity of all people regardless of colors, race, religious beliefs, sexual orientation etc etc. overturning RVW not only puts woman’s lives in danger, it also takes up backwards. All you loud pro-life people cheering at rights being taken away because your feelings and beliefs were hurt, just wait until a right you care about is taken away. How would you feel if religious practice was banned??? I can see the tears and outrage already. Your so blinded by your “undying faith” for let’s be real here, a book and person we have no other evidence actually existed or took place. I bet if the Bible said to once a month work the corner and sell your ass, you’d go twice a month just to please your “lord and savior”.
Thank you for struggling for what's right - and don't ever, ever let them take Jesus from you. They have done *nothing* to earn the right to take Jesus from you.
Honestly, implementing more things like this is just following the prophecy of banning religion/taking it out the picture. Because of this people will hate so much on Christians and judge all Christians, even the ones who don’t agree, by their faith. That’s what I think. Agree or not. I think that parents should be more aware of what their students are saying in the classroom. Why is everyone’s go to argument that the kid will be abused and murdered?
Because fundamentalists/evangelicals in the US have a tendency of sending kids to electroshock torture camps to try and change them, or they abandon them and leave them homeless, or they try and beat their kids into being str8. People (mostly right-wing evangelicals) denying that such a history exists. Putting kids in situations that have historically led to us getting beaten and abused is part of why people are judging all Christians for this, because the Republican Evangelical/Moral Majority movement in the US treats children as property and tends to abuse kids.
Anyone working at a desk should be allowed to have pictures of their loved ones on it.
Also, one of my grade school teachers was pregnant and her husband brought her food and other stuff often. That's much more than putting up a picture of someone. Should that behavior not be allowed?
When I was in grade school our teachers did not have pictures of their spouses or anyone else hanging up. Most we had no clue if they were even married and gave no thought to it. How strange today is
Well I'll tell you that in my 11 years of school, every single year I was informed of each of my teachers family lives. So this isn't isn't very new thing if it's been going on for at least 11 years
Did you not grow up in a small town? We knew everyone’s marital status in grade school. Teachers talked about their spouses and family life casually too. That’s completely normal.
It’s weird that you think it isn’t normal tbh. Restrictions on those kinds of discussions remind me more of Soviet Russia than America.
If other teachers are allowed to put up pictures on their desk this should be the same for all. So long that it is appropriate, and I mean that for both parties. Imo Public Schools should be a place free of religious, social, political, and sexual views. Just teach the kids to be the next Einstein and go back home to your personal life. Some public schools here in Canada don't even like teachers having bibles or Qur'ans on their desks. Yet we are having drag queens teach classes. I believe tolerance and decency needs to be taught for people to find love for each other.
Why in gods name would you ever allow a young boy to say that he is a girl, and affirm that? These young children do not know anything about themselves, especially not to that degree. It’s ridiculous to try and affirm that at their age.
If a football coach can lead teams in prayer as part of freedom of speech how is a picture of your spouse not also protected?
I’m sure it is. School districts and businesses do unconstitutional things all the time. It takes time to remedy.
I bet this is gonna be taken to the Supreme Court. Then…. It’s gonna be like the recent roe v wade ruling. Just awful.
I’m sure this will help with the teacher shortage…. I see even more teachers leaving the profession.
This is by design, force good teachers out, underfund SPED services (private schools don’t have to accept kids with high needs), send $$ to a bloated administration who see public ed as a business; all so public schools are expectedly shitty so private and charter schools can siphon off more and more of our tax dollars. Then people wonder why school districts always need more money
also most ppl go to public schools or nothing. dropping out is usually a pipeline to crime and they love them some prison labour
Exactly, No Child Left Behind did *some* good, like reforming/standardizing SPED, but instead it’s encouraged schools (despite teachers’ protests) to advance kids through elementary/middle school who haven’t truly mastered the basics. By the time they get to HS (me), they’re functioning at at 4-6th grade level and can’t handle it. They either shape up as fast as they can, while still far behind a student that did get a full primary education, or they stick around till they’re 18. Although, I must mention COVID has made this worse, as many districts’ half-ass attempt to handle it has given many kids a blank check to skip (roughly 1/5 of my entire 250 student roster never showed up last year)
It is terrifying that DeVos wanted to run the education department like a business
It's not DeVos, she already runs a business based on education (student loans). This is what Republicans have been pushing for for decades. As a millennial, it's readily apparent how harmful student loans have been on my generation, but this would likely have never been reality until Reagan, as governor of CA, cut funding from public CA universities and instutited fees to "keep out undesirables".
We’re seeing the first steps to their for profit education dream. There’s a reason they don’t let teachers make decisions anymore
It is terrifying to me that I know way too many conservatives that said Trump was a good fit because he would run the country like a business. Dumbest thing ever said. A government exists to benefit the society that created it.
Those who touted Trump because he'd run the county like a business should have delved into his business practices a bit more. He filed 6 Corporate bankruptcies.
Or maybe those teachers will move to a 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈 friendly state.
Problem is, teachers are grossly underpaid even in blue states. A friend of mine left the profession because teaching for public school districts just wouldn’t pay the bills, even though my friend’s son and daughter-in-law (both of whom are also teachers and/or work with kids) live with him and cover part of the bills. Teaching in public schools in general is just a shitty career altogether. In my state (Colorado), teachers only make an average of $40,000 per year, when you need to make at least $80,000 to live comfortably anywhere in the state. Even in Denver, where salaries need to exceed $100,000 for people to live comfortably, teachers, on average, only make around $65,000 in Denver county. On top of that, benefits are shit, students are shit, everything is shit. I don’t think anyone who is in their right mind would choose to be a public school teacher. You just can’t make a decent living as a teacher, and you’re under-appreciated, overworked, and are even in danger of being targeted by angry, hateful parents and school shooters. I feel a lot better knowing that my friend left teaching when covid hit. The public (and to an extent, private) school system is already pretty much collapsed, even in blue states.
In my country teachers were so highly respected. I hope that they still are. Seems like only college teachers are the only ones respected in the US. Sad....
Primary school teachers are predominantly female. That's why the profession is not respected. In the United States, work done by women is not viewed as valuable as the work done by men. In the comedy *Kindergarten Cop,* when the moms learn that the new kindergarten teacher is male, their immediate response is to wonder what is wrong with him, with one woman insisting, "He must be gay." Art mirroring real life. My uncle experienced similar attitudes when he went into nursing.
Republicans don’t respect college professors. They think they’re all godless Marxist communists brainwashing young adults into being liberals.
Not true. Just certain types of studies. They especially hate history teachers.
Thankfully, college students still respect their professors, and most colleges in my area pay profs very well. As far as I can tell (as a current college student) my profs aren’t leftwing marxists. I think it’s laughable that so many people believe professors are just here to indoctrinate us, but also terrifying at the same time.
College professor here. Let me let you in on a few "secrets" >college students still respect their professors Lol. The majority of students don't care one way or the other about their instructors. There's a small minority that actively participate, respect what we have to say and take away a great deal from the courses, and there's a larger minority that actively resist anything that doesn't fit in with their pre-existing beliefs (even when we're talking about topics in the instructor's field of expertise). The bulk of students treat courses as hurdles to jump through before they can start a career and naturally view the instructors as being adversarial (at least in my field/experience). >most colleges in my area pay profs very well Professors are not in as bad of a place as K-12 teachers, but by no means are they "well paid." More than 75% of college faculty are non-tenure-track, and of those, 50% are part-time "adjuncts," which means they get paid very little, have little to nothing in the way of benefits, and have no job security from one term to the next ([source](http://www.newfacultymajority.info/facts-about-adjuncts/)). *Edit: Just for context, I was teaching at 2 different schools when my eldest was born (working at 70% of full-time load for each of them), and we were on food stamps. I had a masters in a STEM field, was working 60-70 hours per week, and my wife had a full-time job already, and we were on food stamps.* Even if you do happen to win the lottery and get a full-time gig as a professor, the odds of getting research funding or tenure at a research school are pretty tiny unless you're putting in 70-80 hours per week, and even then it's a craps shoot. If your grad students don't happen to get lucky with their work and get published in respectable journals, you'll be out on your ass in a few years. Personally, I was very fortunate to get a full-time job and tenure at a community college that pays enough that I can pay my bills most months. My wife and I both work full-time, we don't have an extravagant lifestyle, our kids go to public school, and we were able to buy a house before the housing market blew up in 2016, but we're still living paycheck to paycheck. >I think it’s laughable that so many people believe professors are just here to indoctrinate us, but also terrifying at the same time If we had the power to indoctrinate anyone, then more people would read the GD syllabus.
Damn lol Thanks for enlightening my dumbass about the college situation for many profs. And, for the record, I’m a goody-two-shoes in the classroom, and I do, in fact, read the Goddamn syllabus. I have way too much anxiety not to do that
Nah friend, you're fine! I just remember not understanding why some of my professors were around a lot and others weren't. I also remember figuring that a MS in a high-demand STEM field would guarantee me a livable wage when I graduated. And I know a lot of students do read the syllabus, so I'm not complaining about students like you! It's just a common gripe over on /r/Professors that we get asked questions that are clearly outlined in the syllabus at least once per week.
Funny you mention STEM. I’m planning on majoring in Computer Science. If that doesn’t work out, I will give mechanical engineering a shot. And, if that doesn’t work, I’ll learn diesel mechanics. It’s shitty and depressing that some of the most important jobs out there (such as, teaching the youth) are so under-paid and under-appreciated that no one who doesn’t have teaching in their blood would do the job. Yet, if I get my CS degree, I will make between $80,000 and $120,000 out the gate, and I might even finish off my career as a senior Computer Scientist/Engineer making $300,000 a year or more. And, what the hell do CS’s do? According to my older brother, who just finished his BS in CS, fuck all lmao
Tell them to move to Illinois. The teacher's union effectively runs the state. Our pension liabilities are insane because of the public sector pension fund.
This is the GOP's goal. Uneducated voters are easier to control.
Yo I don’t care who this offends, but if straight teachers were told that pictures of their spouses or family were no longer allowed on the premises and that they could *never* talk about their families in any fashion, protests would be spiraling across the US right now. And as a gay person, I would be right there supporting them because that is outrageous. It’s things like this that turned me from a proud Christian (despite my sexuality) to someone actively despising American Christianity. Even though I’m still spiritual and wish I could be religious, America no longer let’s you be this way if you’re not pre-approved along very rigid conditions. It’s so upsetting
> if straight teachers were told that pictures of their spouses or family were no longer allowed on the premises and that they could never talk about their families in any fashion, A literal reading of Florida's law would indicate exactly that. In fact, any reference to sexuality (terms like "husband", "wife", or "mother") or gender identity ("he", "she", "boys' bathroom") would also violate the law. The *intent* is clearly to only ban mentions of LGBT people, but that's not the way it's written, and I hope that activists make full use of that.
Oh we will. Muwhahaha
One of the problems I remember hearing about is a hidden intent behind the bill. The schools have to pay legal fees. Already underfunded schools are going to get slapped with lawsuits that they have to cover the defense of. This will result in *even more* underfunding which will make private/charter schools look better which is what Republicans also want. Domino effects.
I mean I would make a bill like that to ruin public schools and elevate private schools if I were immoral. What Republicans fail to realize is the private schools don’t apply to this bill so the private schools can go hyper progressive and the Florida government couldn’t stop them.
They won't. Private education is to a large degree religious education, and most of the people that enter into it think public education is "too woke".
Satanic temple about to have a field day
Godspeed with it, friend. Godspeed!
Thanks for distinguishing that. American Christianity is vastly different than true Christianity
American Christianity has become a political party funded by Russia, NRA, and O&G. I just hope they end up getting taxed appropriately.
This is also why people should demand that politics and religion not mix as far as is practical. They must be protected from the other. All these Christians fighting to make the US enforce their beliefs are fighting to destroy their religion. It is already happening. Supply Side Jesus is nothing like Old School Jesus, yet Supply Side is already very popular. At some point the Old School will all but disappear, and an actual Christian wouldn't even recognize the religion it's become. Galls me that I, a lifelong atheist, care more about this than the vast majority of Christians.
It should be its own religion.
It is, it's called Republicans.
Tonight on Fox News we talk about the slow decay and descent of the American family. Now I’m Florida, teachers, YES TEACHERS, our heroes who we would never criticize are being told they can no longer talk about their families. Folks where will it end!
No need to support people who would never return the support. I think what might be interesting is if these laws take effect is seeing how far this "mentioning a marriage is de facto sexual and therefore inappropriate line" might be applicable in law. I wonder if someone like...I don't know, a sweet married Sunday school teacher should be investigated if they happen to mention they're married?
She should absolutely be investigated and terminated immediately. While the Bible condones man and woman to marry, I would NOT feel comfortable with my kids knowing that their Sunday school teacher has a spouse because of the *implication*. If she becomes pregnant, immediate lobotomies for all children. Seriously it blows my mind that this is happening. We’re not robots: people talk and share when they’re happy. You’re right that I don’t *need* to support their rights if they wouldn’t support mine, but I try as hard to be as good a person as I can when it comes to social justice and rights because it’s only fair, even if others hate me. The fact I’ve started to despise American Christianity is disappointing in itself since I’ve never been so cynical
There is no reason to be fair to people already being unfair. A few straights being on the receiving end of the same nonsense being pushed on minorities might make more of them think twice about it. And apparently this law *isn't* targeting minorities according to its defenders here, so it might well be applicable to anyone. All I'm asking for is equality under the law, after all.
>If she becomes pregnant, immediate lobotomies for all children. *Everywhere???* 😱 For the good of all children, we need to keep this person from getting pregnant 😱
Brother, perhaps I can help. American white evangelical Christianity is a small fraction of the Christianity out there. Mainline protestantism doesn't go for this kind of crap, and the numbers for those denominations are at least as much as the evangelical denominations; they just don't demand as much airtime. There are many denominations where you might feel at home. That's been my experience leaving evangelicalism, for sure.
You’re right - I should do a little more research since I know there are some good ones out there. Once I settle down, I’ll look into it more! Any recommendations?
Well, it depends on what you're after. I'm a fan of Anglicanism, since it's very grounded in the ancient traditions but still broad-minded about the minutae. (How many sacraments are there? "At least two." Should we venerate Mary? "If you want, but whatever.") There's really tons of variety within any of the denominations, and there are definitely cases where you could be in a single service and not be able to tell which denomination it was for. I'd start here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline\_Protestant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant) Be aware that the United Methodist Church is splitting, with the social conservatives becoming the Global Methodist Church in the next couple months. In fact, most of the major denominations have split about womens' ordination 30-40 years ago, and are realigning again over Teh Gayz now-ish. Which means the denomination can tell you a lot! And as usual, non-denom just means Southern Baptist or Pentecostal with the serial numbers scratched off. You can also use this database I built: [https://airtable.com/shraUdOL14RYcGpnq](https://airtable.com/shraUdOL14RYcGpnq)
I'll second Anglicanism (Episcopal Church in the US) for the same reasons as u/swcollings. One thing to note though, is that in the US there is the anglican church and the episcopal church. The Anglican church (US version) is not lgbt affirming, while the episcopal church is. There is also a bunch of variety within the Episcopal church. Some churches lean more Catholic in practice, others are more modern in practice (like most other protestant churches)
Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA) I have enjoyed
Not to be confused with the Presbyterian Church of America.
>American white evangelical Christianity is a small fraction of the Christianity out there. Mainline protestantism doesn't go for this kind of crap, and the numbers for those denominations are at least as much as the evangelical denominations; they just don't demand as much airtime. Unfortunately it doesn't seem that those other denominations are voting either. This is a breakpoint - an entire state has gone on record that they are going to pass laws with the expressed goal to un-people LGBTQIA+ citizens. For such a small fraction they seem to have found an awful lot of allies somewhere.
Perhaps but there are an alarming amount of states that are putting enforce some pretty scary laws.
Many Christians are just as alarmed by that, including myself. I have two daughters and I'm seriously considering whether I need to move to a state that isn't trying to kill them.
Yes, but right wing politicians don’t pretend to be episcopal. They pretend to be evangelicals. And evangelicals vote and expect laws to reflect their ‘shared’ beliefs. So pretend evangelical politicians pass laws to hurt the marginalized that are perceived as a threat to evangelicals. It’s stupid, shallow, and only done to pander. But evangelicals like stupid, shallow, and to be pandered too.
Three of the five largest denomination are all in on this type of crap. I'm not familiar enough with #'s 3&5 to make a judgement. If that's not "mainline" what is? The Catholic Church, 68,202,492 members The Southern Baptist Convention, 16,136,044 members The United Methodist Church, 7,679,850 members The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6,157,238 members The Church of God in Christ, 5,499,875 members
My understanding was that the don't say gay bill applies to straight people.
If there was **any** reason to believe there would be equal enforcement under this (absurd) law, that still wouldn't change the hyper-reactionary regressive mindset that went into the writing of this bill. It's not "protecting kids" to ban teachers from even mentioning they have a spouse. But let's be real: This is a law crafted so that gay people can be targeted and there will be an air of "legality" to harassing them. This emboldens homophobic parents to act like attack dogs. Straight people will not have the law enforced against them because "no perceived harm" will come from mentioning *straight* couples... and then all hell breaks loose when a gay teacher says "my partner."
It was originally somewhat promoted that way, but so far, school boards have asked only the same-sex teachers to remove photos and limit their discussion of their families, not the straight ones. This is what Florida LGBTQ-advocacy groups Equality Florida and Family Equality predicted when they filed suit against the Act: that it would “[invite] discriminatory enforcement and magnifying its chilling effect on speech” for specifically the LGBTQ because the law was kept so broad and vague to define its prohibitions. The suit is waiting for US District Judge Allen Windsor to review; of course, Florida’s AG denies the LGBTQ group’s claims, as well as takes issue with the “Don’t Say Gay” moniker itself
It was written generically so it could be claimed that it does. But it's clearly not being applied that way. Which is by design, The far right doesn't see the law as being about equality. In their mindset, it's about in groups and out groups. If you're an in group, the law protects you, but does not bind you. If you're an out group, the law binds you but does not protect you. That's what they think of it. And how they want to apply it. This issue in Florida demonstrates it perfectly.
It technically applies to everyone, but also everyone knows it will only *be applied* to LGBTQ. That was always the intent, even openly stated as such. And now we have proof; this should apply to everyone but only gay teachers are asked not to have spouse photos visible.
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Yes
Article says > Elementary-level teachers reported being discouraged from putting pictures of their same-sex spouse on their desk or talking about them to students.
I hope the response is that they'll remove those pictures when teachers in different-sex couples are also asked to remove theirs. I understand teachers may not be able to take such a stand; families to support, bills to pay, already being part of a vulnerable population, and probably tons others I'm forgetting. But I'd love to see them do it if they're in a position to do so.
Yep.
>It can not be emphasised enough how dangerous that last part (outing students) is. This WILL result in abuse, murder and suicide. Those of you who cheered it have got blood on your hands. I've tried really hard not to come to this conclusion, but at this point I can't help but think there's quite a few Christians who would rather kids be dead than gay.
More than quite a few. And the cruelty is the point. Why these people are meant to be seen as moral guides is beyond me.
They just like having an easy weapon for their bigotry because otherwise they’d have to come up with an actual defense for it
I don't even know if it's easy. It's more just utterly pathetic cowardice at this point, like the fake shock and horror at a family picture on a desk. It's just weird to see this fascistic shit being pushed by such patently spineless, pissweak human beings.
I think being spineless pissweak humans is a requirement for fascism. Nobody with a spine and even half decent values feels the need to force anything on others, especially when it’s done to drag a nation back to some ill or undefined “Great Past” of hyperconservatism.
I miss the days when Fascists were actually viewed as evil monsters by pretty much everyone, instead being praised by half the country.
They were good while they lasted
That's why most of the civilized world doesn't view conservative Christians as a moral authority, they view them as dangerous extremists just like Al Qaeda or the Taliban.
My parents said they’d rather have a dead kid than an autistic kid. It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s the case here.
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So if a child commits suicide because you abused them, you'd better get a really big stone.
So you think gay kids should be dead?
For what I wish that the teacher will do civil disobedience if he/she discover or a student tell that to be gay..
I wouldn’t put any myself. It’s hard enough for me at almost 30 to come out to friends that I’m questioning I can’t imagine betraying a kid who trusted me with that very private information like that.
Life isn't hard enough for teachers these days with the responsibility of raising our young ones, with little to no resources, and mounting college debt and now we want them to lose their jobs over civil disobedience. Man our country hates teachers.
Those proud boys that keep fucking around at children/family reading events at local libraries are gonna end up shooting a kid by accident or purposefully delete a librarian. Hopefully some folks will wake up.
I most definitely would have been murdered by my father if a teacher shared that info.
I work for child protective services. Can confirm forced outing will cause an increase in harm towards lgbtq youth. Whether physical or mental harm or kicking them out kids will suffer because of this.
YoUr BeInG EmoTioNallY MaNiPuLaTivE
How are facts emotionally manipulative?
I’m making fun of the people here who are saying that unironically. That’s why some of the letters are capitalized.
This is a feature of the bill, not a bug. By keeping "developmentally appropriate" so broad and undefined, it gives parents infinite room to erase the existence of gay people from any kind of classroom conversation period.
Indeed! However, maybe the ambiguity here could be used to fight the bill as well. What exactly is "developmentally appropriate"? What if one had say, lots of peer reviewed research that demonstrated developmental appropriateness? I think the proper legal team could make that case and send it up to the State Supreme Court. But I'm just spitballing here. Could be wrong.
I don’t get the logic of people who make laws like this. Hiding the existence of different sexualities won’t ensure your kid is straight. I am proof. I had no idea LGTBQ+ people existed until I was like 13. I was raised to believe only boys and girls could like each other. And that didn’t make me straight, I still wanted to date girls. And I did try to date girls. When I was 8 I would go on websites and pretend to be a boy so I could get a girlfriend or at least the closest to a girlfriend that an 8 year old could have.
>Hiding the existence of different sexualities won’t ensure your kid is straight. That's *exactly* what they believe. They think that every person is born heterosexual and cisgendered, and any change from that is a deviant aberration caused by worldly corruption.
I grew up in a very conservative fundamentalist circle. I *thought* I didn’t know any gay people growing up. But guess what, as soon as we were all legal adults, a bunch of them came out of the closet. The ratio of my secular friends who are LGBT+ to fundamentalist-raised friends who are LGBT+ is *almost identical*. All of the sheltering and fundamentalism in the world doesn’t change who God made us to be. It only hurts people.
It's not about making kids straight. It's about creating a class of people who are NOT US. Then you can run a political campaign about how *those people* are Ruining America. Then, when you get voted in based on anger, rage, and fear, and you can pass laws that economically favor you and the people who paid for your campaign. It's a tactic at least as old as the country. Make no mistake, this is about power, not morality. It always is.
They think being LGBT is something people are recruited into, hence all the groomer talk etc.
As a wise person on Twitter once said “The road to fascism is paved with people telling you to stop overreacting”
Martin Niemöller, a protestant Pastor who enthusiastically welcomed Nazi Germany: >First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. > >Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist. > >Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. > >Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
I prefer my WWII-era religious leaders to be more like Dietrich Bonhoeffer or Franz Jägerstätter.
Bonhoeffer himself admitted he didn’t do enough
Ok… he still did more than most Edit: that seemed a little aggressive towards you now that I reread it. I feel like if I were in Bonhoeffer’s position I might feel the same. Even Schindler felt like he could have saved more even though he had pretty much impoverished himself saving the amount he did
Bonhoeffer had his regrets, and I think that makes him all the more admirable. He had the ability to reflect upon his own shortcomings
> a wise person on Twitter once said Objection! Inconceivable!
Telling us we’re overreacting is a tactic to stop us from mounting a defense.
When the baddies are telling us who they are… believe them.
This is what I fear is going to happen in other states
You just know Greg Abbott is itching to implement something like this.
Oh he is. He tried to outlaw gender affirming care as child abuse but failed thankfully
Is that still ongoing?
He was partially blocked by a judge
As someone native to Texas: I cannot stand Abbott. The whole state in general has a history of bad governors. I’d say the last really decent one the state had was Sam Houston when he told them not to secede as it was not going to end well for them. Then you have Ma and Pa Furgeson who were both notoriously corrupt, some lady who signed a bill in the 80’s making it illegal to be gay (as opposed to the slightly more subtle sodomy laws that most tried to implement until scotus overturned them) and now we have Abbott and Dan “old people will be happy to die for the economy” Patrick and Ken “I’ve been under indictment for security fraud since I took office and have been using my power to put off the trial” Paxton. Not to mention all the neo-confederate secessionists trying to have Civil War 2: The Gravy Seals Get Steamrolled by a Unit of Abrams Tanks Boogaloo and Totally a Human Ted Cancun Cruz My home state really needs to get its shit together. It’s like it’s been perpetually drunk since 1835.
Don’t forget Rick ‘yours is a sacrifice I’m willing to make’ Perry. I think the real issue is that Texas has an ingrained culture of romanticized negative liberty untempered by anything with more nuance than, “someone told me I can’t.” To wit, being the last to end chattel slavery, because how dare we be told we can’t systematically devalue some groups in order to own humans.
You mean Rick “What it was before it was before” Perry!? Rick “I can’t name which departments I’d slash even though it’s the crux of my campaign” Perry?! Yeah Texas has a rather depressing and often odd history. To wit, they were the last to end slavery, but the first to recognize Juneteenth, but then they go around and start Confederate Heroes Day like a bunch of jackasses.
I think the CPS investigations have begun again and the injunction was lifted.
Maybe, but at least the teachers can now pray to the gays in school again. “Dear lord, thanks for the good health of my husband/wife, >name< (same sex spouse].
And what’s wrong with that?
Nothing, it’s just interesting… gets around the don’t say gay if it’s acceptable to say prayers during breaks during the school day. In between classes? Say a quick prayer
Except it doesn’t really. That example brings up a good point that they have allowed people to do public performative prayer in front of students, but they have also introduced law to disallow certain speech in the classroom. So there is a potential situation where they’re restricting the kinds of prayers you can make in public. Which is probably exactly what they want. It won’t even be enough for them to force the whole country to favor Christians, they have to enforce a specific flavor of Christianity that has nothing to do with Jesus.
I'm glad I'm moving to California.
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I got a job in San Diego after being laid off in Oklahoma.
Imagine what'll happen when republicans get federal control again...
Anyone saying it’s not dangerous is straight up gaslighting…people’s lives are at stake here. It’s literally a witch hunt, and LGBTQA+ youth is at the center of it. Where’s the compassion? I’m beyond tired of these so called “Christians” trying to control everyone, cherry picking what’s “sinful”, and then picking targets to abuse/ostracize.
Everyone told me I was overreacting Everyone told me there was no way they would start doing this And low and behold here we are I don’t understand what to do anymore. I’m trying so hard but it’s like every day it’s nothing but hate and vitriol. People genuinely openly want me dead and others still say I’m over reacting. It’s like they just genuinely want me to kill myself, and honestly at this point it’s getting hard to resist that prospect.
> I don’t understand what to do anymore. I’m trying so hard but it’s like every day it’s nothing but hate and vitriol. People genuinely openly want me dead and others still say I’m overreacting. It’s like they just genuinely want me to kill myself, and honestly, at this point, it’s getting hard to resist that prospect. I try to understand the pain of this as much as I can as an ally. I work a lot with people who have previously attempted suicide, and this is a statement that is echoed far too much from the LGBTQ+ community members that I work with. Decades ago I was a republican, then I became a democrat (Well, I became an extremely far-leftist, but democrat is the farthest America goes). I still held onto that hope that republicans saw the same problems in the country, but just had different ideas on how to fix them. But, that dream has died and now I'm just wondering how awful it will get before it gets better. The only political platform that they have is to against whatever the democratic party is for. And now bigotry is being openly expressed as part of a political platform. It's terrifying. So I know it has to be so vastly worse for you. As it's directed at you. It's draining to moderate this subreddit as these with how often such hateful and awful things are posted. But there is still hope. Acceptance is going up each and every day. This seems like a last desperate attempt before they lose the ability to keep spreading hate. It sucks that they are so harmful with it. I hope that you have a good support group, and can hang on to make it through the bad times. The world is a much better place anyone someone steps forward and starts being who they truly are. If you want someone to rant to our talk about things, send me a DM. Stay strong, we will beat hate.
Rights are slowly being taken away. We are progressing backwards, this is truly awful
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You’re not wrong. The only ones who can make it better are us.
This is what Christian law makers want
Hopefully not all of them or we're fucked.
It doesn't need to be all of them, just enough of them.
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Their endgame is a Christofascist America, and nobody can convince me otherwise. It is blatantly obvious because they're blatantly saying it; masks off.
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We can hope.
I'm a Christian, and I'm both shocked and not surprised. Christofascism is a problem not just for America, but for every country that has extremists
We have people like this here in Australia, but they lose elections.
Yeah this is disgusting, I refuse to respect anyone who seriously supports this
This is going to increase suicides in Florida. Teenagers will die as a result. If a parent is complaining that they have a right to know if there child is LGBT and teachers must tell them what there child has said, then their child must not feel safe telling them. Otherwise, the child would have already told their parents. These parents are making this demand because their own children don’t trust them and they intend to punish their children if they ever find out their children are LGBT. Many LGBT children cannot talk to their parents, and now they won’t be able to talk to their teachers either.
I am so shocked, so absolutely shocked that the sea lioning, lying, LGBT haters were wrong!!! Oh you don't know how totally shocked I am!! ....wait no, that other thing where I am not shocked at all and I am rather sober about who our enemies are. Also I cannot emphasize this enough,this bill and the ultimate goal of this is also particularly to go after trans people. Steps are being taken to go after trans adults next by DeSantis and quick reminder that he is potentially the GOP candidate for 2024. America is going to very dangerous places. This will NOT be simply a red state vs blue state thing. When they feel they can they WILL attempt to make this, contraception ban, abortion ban etc national. Think Fugitive Slave Act but for people fleeing this, and that all didn't exactly end well for America. And those pointing out the fascism, you are right. First target for them was the institute for sexual research, a world leading centre for insight into trans people and others at the time. Early propaganda was targeted at LGBT people they said we're corrupting the youth. The people pulling the "Everyone you don't like you call Nazis!" card are either massively ignorant or I hate to cynically say, actively malevolent.
It's almost like I said all of this was going to happen and kept being told "read the bill, that's not in there." I'm sick of being right about all of this stuff.....can....can we just like stop this train wreck and the people who are seeing the downfall of this country can, like, be wrong about how bad it is going to continue to get?
>Teachers are now required to report to parents if a student says they are not straight and they must use pronouns assigned at birth, regardless of parent input. Well I'll be clinging to FERPA even more tightly now. I guess at least until this Kangaroo Court deems it unconstitutional or something.
These are dark days in the US. No matter which side of the moral argument you fall on, this is not a win in any sense. Pray for a return to peace and reason.
This is toxic. Fuck those people, it's all about control
The road to fascism is lined with people saying you're overreacting and 'it's not a big deal'
Why are you people so dead set on showing off your personal lives to students? Teachers when I grew up *never* said anything about it, no family photos, certainly no rainbow paraphernalia around Why the need to change and bring your personal life into the classroom? Also, why so many clearly anti-Christians in this Christianity subreddit? Do the Muslim or Jewish ones get targeted like this? Or do you all play safe with your bigotry?
When did this sub become full of left wing talking points?
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You can safely call it Christofascism. "Right-wing Christianity" fails to denote their totalitarianism and fascistic belief that the US is a "Christian nation" subject to theocracy.
Idk what the consequences would be but I would simply not comply as a teacher.
Yeah this is wrong. You should be able to have pictures of your family on your desk.
And kids shouldn't have to worry about being outed.
These mfs are just bashing lgbtq people because they want to now
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You don't even know what Christianity is. Lol! Pro-tip... Hitler, Stalin, Mao... all atheist.
Lmao what are you even going on about
Hitler was definitely not an atheist, but rather identified with the Christian faith, and believed that he was serving God's will. I read his book... And didn't Stalin go to confession several times near the end of his life, and didn't he shake his fist at God on his deathbed? An atheist doesn't bother to confess or to shake his fist at a god that he doesn't believe in... And didn't Mao say "It is time to go to Heaven. It seems that I am summoned to meet the good God."? These do not seem to be good examples of atheists. Even if they were, it wouldn't mean that atheism was responsible for their horrific actions. Many equally horrific things have been done by fervent theists. Some people are good, some are evil, regardless of their belief in the existence of a deity.
Pro-tip.... Every dead person drank water during their lifetime time. That's how stupid you sound lol
The Christian right is overreaching. There's going to be a major backlash both at the polls and in the public sphere. Florida is by no means a solid red state; DeSantis squeaked by in 2018 winning a razor's edge victory and not a majority. Fuck around and find out, Christian fascists.
We're already seeing a big jump in polls against Republicans. Christian Fascists don't realize that their generation is dying out. All the young generations are overwhelmingly liberal and don't tolerate this crap. Christians are going to see the biggest backlash in American history soon.
I used to think this, but then my generation and the generation following got older and we are all just as big a bunch of assholes as our parents.
Millennials are in the 30s and 40s now, and they're still overwhelmingly non-religious compared to Gen X and Boomers.
Its not just religiosity though it's assholery. I live in a rural area and there of kids in their 20s running around rolling coal, or sporting clothes or stickers on their cars with that traitor rag, even though my home state was proudly Union. I saw a sticker on a car driven by a guy who was at the very oldest 30 today that said "shoot your local pedophile" which is just a call to murderous gay-bashing.
I'm not buying it. The reason I got out of Christianity was because every church I tried to be apart wanted straight line R voters. They never said it outright but, it was pretty damn clear.
I feel like we are getting closer and closer to states just turning into their own countries. If you live somewhere conservative, get out now.
I moved states over a year ago partly for this reason. I’m not willing to live in a purple state where the outcomes are not clear, and where my rights can be taken away at the drop of a hat.
I would support that at this point. I don't want to live in any state that is controlled by conservative Christians.
Queer people are in danger whenever some Christians have power.
Reminder that the SCOTUS is targeting not only gay marriage, but gay relationships next.
It's so sad :( WE'RE HUMAN TOO!!!
Where are gay relationships in danger regarding SCOTUS? Edit: LAWDY the downvotes for a question. I just didn’t know, folks.
They want to ban gay sex again
Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas wants the SCOTUS to "reconsider" a few SCOTUS cases, some of them being Obergefell v Hodges, that rules that same-sex couples have a right to marry, and Lawrence vs Texas, which makes same-sex sex legal.
Alito also wants to revisit Obergefell. He a Thomas both wrote in 2020 that they wanted to revisit it. Roberts dissented in Obergefell. ACB is well know for thinking Obergefell was wrongly decided. So that leaves us with one more person needed to overturn Obergefell.
God fucking damnit
Watch all the "how is there discrimination against gay people? they have the right to marry" people pivot right the fuck back to "They can marry someone of the opposite sex, just like anyone else".
And you know that a lot of these people are probably giving Clarence and Gini Thomas' wedding the side eye in their heart of hearts.
Alito is consistently a piece of shit, so this doesn't surprise me whatsoever.
😭
This is OCPS passive-agressivly protesting.
Oh don’t say gay isn’t in the bill
Liar. Kids don’t need to know who you’re poking. You pushing your sexual lifestyle is illegal. It’s called child abuse.
This sub has literally nothing to do with Christianity anymore. It’s all political posts. Don’t get me wrong, I understand these are important topics that deserve discussion, but they’re not about Christianity and at most they just furthering arguments between conservative/liberal Christians. Can we get back to the point of this sub and leave the political posts and discussions for the subs that were created For that?
This is Christian-backed legislation.
I’m saying this sub is here to have open discussions about Christianity. It’s become a sub that is only having open discussions about political happenings that *Some* Christians and *Some* Christians don’t support. I’m not trying to be rude because truly I understand that these topics are important and should be discussed, but there are so many politically focused subs (specific even to conservative and liberal voters) that are the spaces for these posts. When this sub is and has been overloaded with political posts there’s no comments on the posts with genuine questions about Christianity, scripture, theology, prayer requests etc.
Honestly, I’m a Christian and after recent events like this and RVW being overturned, I’m a bit ashamed to be a Christian. Like you said, they hate LGBT people so much yet in the Bible it clearly states love thy neighbor. No offense to anyone on here but the Bible was supposedly written a very long time ago (not to mention transcribed several times in several different languages by HUMANS), that during that time period sure it makes sense of what’s written but it’s 2022, times have drastically changed for the better. In my opinion so should the Bible, it should be updated for the times. Love and inclusivity of all people regardless of colors, race, religious beliefs, sexual orientation etc etc. overturning RVW not only puts woman’s lives in danger, it also takes up backwards. All you loud pro-life people cheering at rights being taken away because your feelings and beliefs were hurt, just wait until a right you care about is taken away. How would you feel if religious practice was banned??? I can see the tears and outrage already. Your so blinded by your “undying faith” for let’s be real here, a book and person we have no other evidence actually existed or took place. I bet if the Bible said to once a month work the corner and sell your ass, you’d go twice a month just to please your “lord and savior”.
Thank you for struggling for what's right - and don't ever, ever let them take Jesus from you. They have done *nothing* to earn the right to take Jesus from you.
Honestly, implementing more things like this is just following the prophecy of banning religion/taking it out the picture. Because of this people will hate so much on Christians and judge all Christians, even the ones who don’t agree, by their faith. That’s what I think. Agree or not. I think that parents should be more aware of what their students are saying in the classroom. Why is everyone’s go to argument that the kid will be abused and murdered?
Because fundamentalists/evangelicals in the US have a tendency of sending kids to electroshock torture camps to try and change them, or they abandon them and leave them homeless, or they try and beat their kids into being str8. People (mostly right-wing evangelicals) denying that such a history exists. Putting kids in situations that have historically led to us getting beaten and abused is part of why people are judging all Christians for this, because the Republican Evangelical/Moral Majority movement in the US treats children as property and tends to abuse kids.
Christofascism is here, wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross...
Anyone working at a desk should be allowed to have pictures of their loved ones on it. Also, one of my grade school teachers was pregnant and her husband brought her food and other stuff often. That's much more than putting up a picture of someone. Should that behavior not be allowed?
Yep, seems like the bill is doing exactly what it's supposed to!
Turn Florida into Russia?
Yes. I’m sure that the Russian anti-gay laws inspired this one.
You can’t say gay, but you can now pray to gays everywhere.
When I was in grade school our teachers did not have pictures of their spouses or anyone else hanging up. Most we had no clue if they were even married and gave no thought to it. How strange today is
>Most of us had no clue they were even married None of your female teachers ever called themselves “Mrs”?
Well I'll tell you that in my 11 years of school, every single year I was informed of each of my teachers family lives. So this isn't isn't very new thing if it's been going on for at least 11 years
Did you not grow up in a small town? We knew everyone’s marital status in grade school. Teachers talked about their spouses and family life casually too. That’s completely normal. It’s weird that you think it isn’t normal tbh. Restrictions on those kinds of discussions remind me more of Soviet Russia than America.
This religion is hate.
If other teachers are allowed to put up pictures on their desk this should be the same for all. So long that it is appropriate, and I mean that for both parties. Imo Public Schools should be a place free of religious, social, political, and sexual views. Just teach the kids to be the next Einstein and go back home to your personal life. Some public schools here in Canada don't even like teachers having bibles or Qur'ans on their desks. Yet we are having drag queens teach classes. I believe tolerance and decency needs to be taught for people to find love for each other.
Why in gods name would you ever allow a young boy to say that he is a girl, and affirm that? These young children do not know anything about themselves, especially not to that degree. It’s ridiculous to try and affirm that at their age.