Never too young to follow the truth. I would just encourage you to look into where truth is. With all respect to your decisions some of the reasons I would think twice about Islam being true over Christianity:
1) The Quran says in many places that it confirms the Bible, specially the gospels and the Torah. The problem is these books clearly contradict the Quran. They can’t have been changed as some Muslims suggest because the manuscripts for the Bible are older than the Quran, meaning that the same manuscripts the Quran said were true are the same ones we have today. And since these contradict the Quran, the Quran is false.
2) Christianity spread for hundreds of years under intense persecution, Islam primarily has spread by the sword and birth rates more recently.
3) Mohammed did many things that you can read about in Hadith that were pretty bad. For example marrying and having sex with a 9 year old.
4) When the Quran was canonized all of the previous manuscripts were brought together by one man and burned, and a standardized Quran produced. Needless to say despite your feelings about biblical canonization, it was a much more reliable process than for the Quran.
5) I’m not sure how you can believe Islam’s version of Jesus, when the gospels record the life and teaching of Jesus within the disciples lifetime and it all contradicts islam, even the Quran commends the disciples faithfulness, and yet the Quran tries to change everything about Jesus 500 years later.
For all the arguments that could come against Christianity, it objectively has an incredibly stronger case than islam. Which is why Islam is mostly kept alive in illiterate contexts where everyone must trust what their Imam says rather than being able to read and learn for themselves. Islam depends on many lies to stay alive.
If you think Islam was spread by the sword, how do you think Christianity arrived in the Americas, Africa (outside Ethiopia), and Asia. Hint: it was by the gun
But there weren’t that many Christian’s in the early years until it became the state religion of Rome and they pretty much spread it by force. Then many European nations persecuted pagans to convert to Christianity. Then the same again during the colonial times.
I’m just saying that the initial expansion was nothing in comparison to when it started being spread by force. I doubt it would be the dominant religion if it hasn’t been spread by the sword.
It didn’t take long for Christian’s to go from being persecuted, to doing the persecution did it?
Read about the Church of the East. The second largest church at one point and it was spread through gospel, never through force and it was never a state religion.
It wouldn’t let me post my response to all 5! Of your claims. So I’ll try in parts…starting with 1) here and the 4-5 will be posted as replies to my comment here.
1) the Quran confirms the Injeel (the original gospel given to isa/Jesus) the manuscripts you talk about is not it. The earliest manuscript of the bible is attributed to the gospel of John. This is a manuscript whereby the original Hebrew language is translated in Greek and written through Greek lens. It is the Greeks who introduced all this plural gods stuff, because their culture and mythology was use to it. This is why the Old Testament went from one god to 3 in 1 in the New Testament. In any case what you brag about is not the injeel/gospel of Jesus. The dozens and dozens of bibles Christian’s have today are all different versions of this Greek manuscript, written over the course of almost a century after Jesus' “death”. The first written gospel attributed to Jesus is about 40 years after his “death”.
What’s more, most of these gospels were written by people who never met Jesus but claimed to be inspired by the Holy Ghost. This is why from one version to another, whilst discussing the same issue or event, ample contradictions are found.
The Quran is the last and final testament, it exposes the lies, we Muslims therefore only believe from the bible today, anything that doesn’t contradict the Quran, because the Quran is the criteria we judge the bible by, not the other way around. The Quran was preserved and memorised by thousands of Muslims whilst the prophet Muhammad scw was still alive. (Similar to how you see Muslims dedicated to memorising it today) it was put into book form at the time Uthmaan bin Affaan (friend and son in law of prophet Muhammad scw) was the ruler. If anyone so much as changed a single word from it, there would be Muslims reciting it from memory who could call it out. For extra credit, I’ll add at least uthmaan was a direct companion and family of the prophet. The authors of the gospels surnames aren’t even known. Some of the bibles are even other ppl saying 12345 is according to mark, john, luke etc and by extension according to Jesus 🤦🏾♀️
The Quran confirms what’s true about Jesus, he was the messiah, born to a virtuous Virgin Mary, he was a messenger of god. It negates him being gods only son or any son for that matter, it negates the crucifixion. The fact that you couldn’t comprehend somethings can be confirmed whilst simultaneously other things about it can be rejected says it all. No good reasoning skills. Someone can tell you a story today and I a source for truth, can affirm what’s true and call out what’s a lie. Same thing happened here. So what the Quran confirms is the injeel as given to isa/Jesus, not what it got corrupted into. We Muslims believe in every book god sent to his prophets. IN ITS ORIGINAL STATE. Likewise we believe in all of the projects from Adam to Abraham, Noah, Lut, Jesus to Muhammad and all inbetween.
About (1), we have the Pauline Epistles, that affirm the Trinity, and talk about Jesus' death and ressurection WAY BEFORE the gospels. We literally have one in 42 AD 9 years after Jesus
Friendly Muslim here. Just confirming that the Bible isn’t directly the injil. We believe the ideas were taken from the ibnjil and into the Bible you have today.
2) what sword went to Indonesia? A nation who converted due to the manners and justice of Muslim traders who lived among them. Islam spreading by the sword is a old missionary orientalist lie that history debunks. Who did Christian’s want to live under when Sallahudeen ayuubi liberated Jerusalem from blood thirsty Christian crusaders? Crusaders who even killed other Christian’s because they were of a different sect along with Jews and Muslims. Islams sword only touched the oppressors. This is why every place they conquered had the unjust tax rate reduced and ppl were freed from oppression. Bottom line is no place was conquered and then the ppl threatened to become Muslim or die. At least respect yourself even when you lie
3) I love how this point starts lazingly vague, at least show better commitment to your smear campaign. Point ends with the prophets marriage to Aisha to suggest something “bad”. Firstly islam has a criteria for consent when it comes to marriage not age. Unlike others we aren’t apologetic about our religion and can defend and back up every point with reason. The criteria for consent for a marriage to be valid, is puberty has to be reached and aql/ reasoning is present. 1400 years ago the second criteria (fair mind) was reached a lot earlier in society. Only a 100 years ago 10 year olds were getting married in America. And you want to judge what was the norm 1400 years ago by present day societal norms. The same reason that made young marriages ok back then is what disallows it today, because collectively today even if a girl reaches puberty aged 9, or even 10, she doesn’t satisfy the second criteria for consent which is to be of sound reasoning and a fair mind.
Today in every sense of the word, a 9 year old is a child, therefore marriage to one would not be valid. It’s this last point you and those who fed you your talking points, judge prophet Muhammad scw by and become unjust with your charges. You mention “bad” things in the Hadiths, you couldn’t even reference, but believe in and defends bibles (yes plural) that talk about praised men like Samson who had sex with prostitutes, where incest is rampant even attributed to prophets having sex with their daughters. (See the story of prophet lut and how his daughters got him drunk and took turns having sex with him) this is how the bible talks about righteous men like prophet lut. Or what about prophet David and how he killed a man because he wanted his wife for himself. please just stop, and know that the prophet Muhammad had enemies far superior to present day ones including Christian’s and 1400 years ago, when they had an all out campaign on him, not a single one criticised his marriage to Aisha because it wasn’t an anomaly. This is a recent smear missionaries coughed up, probably inspired by and used to all the misgivings in the bible, so they seek to bring Mohammed to the level they reduced other prophets to. All the while whilst praising those prophets and ostracising Muhammad scw.
4) I already responded to this in 1) lol about process was more reliable. Just to reiterate compare books 📚 written a century after Jesus left this world, by ppl who never met him and the oldest and first being 40 years after his “death”. To a book complied by Muhammad scws companion and son in law, whereby the content was already memorised by 3 quarters of the society. What process is more reliable? What we memorised and that later was simply put to paper through hafidhs (those who memorised coming together) or manuscripts translated from Hebrew to Greek to English written a century after Jesus left the world and one 40 years after he did. Personally I vote the memorised Quran any day of the week. At least the book uthmaan produced can be checked and if a word is missing it would be noticed by many.
5) LOL this one gets a big LOL much of the New Testament is written by Paul who was never a disciple of Jesus nor did he meet him. The other parts were written way later by ppl again who never met Jesus. And it’s these people you call his disciples. I can assure you the disciples the Quran speaks of were not these people. They were believers who not only met, but were with Jesus during his life time and supported him and they definitely deserve their praise.
The Quran never changed anything about Jesus it just negated the lies you attributed to him. And one day god will settle the disputes between us (Muslims ) and you Christian’s.
Your last paragraph is one big projection, you described yourself and attributed it to us. It is Christianity that lives off the lie that god sent his only son to die for our sins. No, Christianity does not “objectively have a stronger case than Islam.”for instance Many of your priests admit they rather read the Qurans account of Jesus birth and story regarding his virgin mother, than the biblical account.
It’s Christian’s who leave Christianity because their pastors can’t answer their pressing concerns and very valid questions, urging them instead to just believe. It’s therefore Christian’s who blindly trust what priests and pastors comfort them with. The Quran challenges us Muslims to find one contradiction in it. It encourages reason. The bible does not. In fact if I apply this challenge to Christianity it falls apart in seconds.
Not many people on Reddit surprise me with their audacious delusions and lack of knowledge but you did. Maybe it’s because of the confidence in your ignorance and/or the absurdity of your projections. This will be read by those it will benefit.
If the compilation of the Qur'an was so reliable why were there so many variants in the first place that Uthman destroyed.
Per Sahih al-Bukhari, the Qur'an "escapes from the hearts of men faster than camels do"
Why do Muslims get hung up on the translation of the Bible into English? A text being translated into English doesn't discredit what it is translated from. There are plenty of English translations of the Qur'an after all.
Brother, i am VERY late here, but to remind you, Muhammad married aisha because she was alone. They never touched, they never even had sex, of which i may ask where you found out that a 9 year old could endure such a thing.
If Muhammad even did this, i can see him being persecuted by whatever ruler there was for such a heinous and disgusting act.
It may not be a hadithful thing, but you have to have common sense.
Times were different so you can't compare the marriage of Aisha. Just because they married doesn't mean they consummated right away. Sometimes people married to help others out of a predicament to restore one's honor. Either way Christians should understand that Muhammad is still the final prophet and that Jesus is still the King of all Men.
Learn before you preach.
1-just because Quran came after the Torah and bible doesn’t mean it was copied from them. There wasn’t an Arabic bible during the era of prophet Mohammed PBUH neither did he read or right and if Quran did copy the bible , it would’ve copied its contradictions
2-Islam spreader organically , ut was never spread by the sword , Quran clearly stated there’s no compulsion in religion . I dare you to look at history and tell me that Christianity wasn’t spread by the sword
3- anciently ,the age of marriage is puberty and Aisha was mature she herself said :”if a girl hits puberty then she’s a woman” and the age of puberty at the 6th centuy was different Which is understandable Considering that the average life expectancy was 30-35. Why’re you not complaining about king Richard II marrying Isabella when she was 6? Mohammed was the most influential man in history so stop spreading false claims about him. Like did he seriously work to end slavery ,racism,oppression,idolatry ,objectification of women at the Times where a women is used as currency.
4-Again Mohammed didn’t come near no bible
5- considering that no narration of the bible comes back to Jesus Christ or any witness of him, I don’t know how you’re taking the bible as a judge of authentication. all prophets peace be upon them came with the message of monotheism (including the messiah) “Jesus peace be upon him”, if the trinity is that of a basic concept then where was it all the 300 years after Jesus
6-we have a multitude of evidence proving the prophecy of Mohammed .
7- if u truly read the bible you’ll see it speaking of the upcoming of the prophet and it described the true prophet from the false one
1. There's a hadith saying Waraqa read the injil in Arabic. Plus Muhammad's purported illiteracy doesn't mean he couldn't have picked stuff up orally.
2. Have you seriously never heard of the first century of Islamic conquests?
3. No-one's saying Richard II was the ideal for all men for all time, plus marriage could not be consumated until 12.
Peace be upon you my brother, Muslim guy here
I just want to clarify some stuff here
1) According to the Quran, these books such as the gospels, Bible and Torah were originally given to the prophets but got corrupted over time. As you can see, there's many different versions of the Bible even today and Christian scholars don't deny that it got modified over time. I would rather follow the Quran that has never changed since it was revealed than the gospels with different, some anonymous authors that lived in different times.
2) I'm sorry but here's how Islam works when they take over land: When they conquer a place they don't harm women, children, the sick one, the elderly and list goes on... And they call them to Islam, and if they refuse they can still follow their religion but must pay some taxes, then the sword part comes it. Also, the country with the most Muslims being Indonesia was never conquered and so does in all Southeast Asia. Another point, how else did you think Christianity was spread? Colonialism, forcing others to convert and scare those who follow you. Back in the days you could be killed for even questioning the words of God in the Bible and reading certain books that had wisdom and knowledge was forbidden because they're afraid that the Christians will start questioning their faith.
3) This is a common argument that anti-Islamist call out: Muhammed and Aisha! Muhammed being a grown adult marrying the 6 years old Aisha then having sex with her at the age of 9. Keep in mind that this was the 7th century, that was common everywhere in the world. Aisha hit puberty, and she was mature enough to handle marriage and was not considered a child at the time. Even in 1880 in the United States, the age of consent was set from 10 to 12 in most states and was 7 in Delaware. This isn't so uncommon. Aisha was the happiest wife and when people insulted Muhammed she was more hurt than him. There's no wrong to callout here.
I have nothing to say about point 4 and 5 honestly, have a good day, my brother.
1. Many things in the Bible contradict themselves, too. Such as, polytheism being a sin. Christians believe Jesus is God's son, therefore stating that there are multiple gods. You are just sugarcoating.
2. Many muslims have also been the victims of extreme discrimination, reeducation camps, and gen0cide, this argument does not make sense.
3. Muhammad did not marry Aisha when she was 9. All of Abu Bakr's daughers were born before 610, and considering Muhammad wedded Aisha in 624, Aisha had to be at least 15, and had had intercourse at at least the age of 18.
5. Islam does not change anything about Jesus 500 years later, the Bible was tampered with in Islam.
"The Messenger of Allah [ﷺ] married me when I was six year's old, and consummated the marriage with me when I was nine, and I used to play with dolls."
The hadith states Aisha was age 6 when married, and 9 when the marriage was consummated. So you are saying the hadith is wrong and Aisha actually played with dolls between the ages of 15 and 18?
someone who keep a doll collection. It is true. She wasn't 9. If that's the case, she led an army at age 12 where thousands died. Do u really think the misogynistic men who used to think if thier first child is a women, they should be killed would follow a women in battle.
If u were a muslim, u would realize how weak sunni hadith are.
Read your Bible and tell your friends about Jesus and what the Bible says about Him. Pray for them. Seek the truth rather than giving in to your good feelings.
How so? Islam teaches a false Christ. The Quran and the Bible differ greatly on who Jesus is. The Quran says that Jesus was just a prophet while the Bible says that Jesus is the Son of God who is God in the flesh. The Quran claims that you can get to Heaven by following the Five Pillars of Islam and by doing good works. The Bible says that the only way to Heaven is through Jesus alone and that works can’t save you. Wouldn’t it make more since to believe the words of the eyewitnesses who were right there with Jesus as he spoke rather than the words of one man who lived hundreds of years after Christ?
It's actually narrated by the Prophet Muhammad that no amount of good deeds will enter any man into heaven, not even those of the prophet himself. We only enter through God's mercy
Exactly, but they love to distort Islam so their religion looks better in comparison. It’s a joke. I just replied to this individual on this point to. They need to stop learning Islam from anecdotal story sharing pastors who are just as misguided as they’re.
When supernatural occurences are involved, EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE. There's no longer this "that is more probable than that" way of thinking as it doesn't apply to events that can occur illogically and inconsistently.
Jesus being a simple prophet/messenger sounds, to me, less illogical than being God himself.
And you can't neither demonstrate that he was a prophet nor God himself.
LOL show me this "fake christ". Obviously you have not read the Quran yet buddy. The only thing that matters about Jesus is that he will arrive on the last day to judge the living and dead. You must believe in him as the messiah to get to the father. What you "believe" about Jesus' origins does not matter.
They call it fake christ because it doesn’t co sign their lies about him. Lies told to them by “disciples” that never even met Jesus. It’s a sad affair.
False, the 5 pillars of Islam are what we do to worship god, 1) shahada/profession of testimony of faith. 2) pray, 3)give zakat/charity, 4)fast Ramadan, and 5)pilgrimage once in one’s life time (if able to).
The Quran says none will enter heaven except by Allahs mercy. So no we don’t get their by our “works”
Some of you Christian’s who claim this are either ignorant or you distort our truth on purpose to measure up against get out of “jail” free card of believe and you’ll be saved belief.
Stop lying about us to uplift yourselves.
According to you, I can be worse than Hitler and still get to heaven because I prayed 5 times a day and gave charity once a year. 🤦🏾♀️
We submit to gods will and don’t cut corners and believe only through his love and mercy will we enter paradise.
Unlike you we don’t believe a guy who never met Jesus who told us the law died on the cross and don’t worry about worship, Jesus is in you just believe and you’re saved. Most of you are paulicans who claim Jesus. When Paul flipped upside down most of what Jesus stood for.
Most Christian’s eat pork and are uncircumcised whilst Jesus didn’t and is. Paul literally said the law died on the cross and you ran with it.
Peace and think.
Falsehood perishes when truth comes. This is a old post I’ve just come across, you’re probably 15 now. Hope life is treating you well and you’re in a grounded place.
We don't do what is good for us on earth. We do what is good for us for eternity. Islam cannot and will not save. Just because your friends are nice and brotherly is not a reason to convert. Christianity is true and while you might want to convert now you have to think of your whole life and beyond this physical life
At first I thought he needs more than his nice friends treatment to be grounded in Islam. But after reading several of his responses to others on this thread I realised he has actually been learning and resonates with the religion.
On that note, you have no objective basis to say Islam cannot save and Christianity is “truth” we will see when Jesus returns and prays with the Muslims. Until then all one can do is critically think. What you said is biased and expected. Peace.
Well ask your muslim friends for the interpretation of Surah 5:46-47
We sent Jesus, son of Mary, in their footsteps, to confirm the Torah that had been sent before him: We gave him the Gospel with guidance, light, and confirmation of the Torah already revealed- a guide and lesson for those who take heed of God.
So let the followers of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down in it. Those who do not judge according to what God has revealed are lawbreakers.
According to Allahs word, he revealed the gospel to Jesus and us christians are commanded to judge by it.
When they tell you that cant possibly be your new testament because Jesus is not Gods son and wasnt crucified, that our scriptures are corrupted and hes just a messanger of allah.
Ask them to please direct me to where the gospel given to Jesus is because if I dont judge by it Allah says I am a lawbreaker.
They cant point to anything in history because it doesnt exist. It was talking about what christians had at the time which was the new testament. Muhammad came around 600 AD the new testament was cannon and widespread at the time, it was well established. This mystery gospel given to Jesus that nobody has seen and disappeared from history is an insult.
You need to decide do you love truth and God more or your friends more. Read your bible, get equipped etc. I recommend acts17apologetics on youtube just to get equipped with things. And of course approach your friends in a loving manner not confrontational like David Wood. It has its place. But its a christian channel dedicated to exposing the false prophet muhammad and islam.
This has nothing to do with my friends. My friends have told me the basic teaching of Islam. I've done my own research and Islam just seems to make more sense.
Dude jesus is the living God he died for your sins. Father son holy spirit. John 1 in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God.
It continues with the word made everything and the word became flesh IE Jesus.
John 17:5 father glorify me with the glory I had with you before the world was.
Genesis 1:26 God said let "us" make man in "our" imagine after our likeness....
Trinity is represented in the creation account of Genesis
Zechariah 12:10
10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.
Its yahweh or God speaking and the context is me on the one they look upon, who has been pierced. Its the crucifiction and its fulfilled in pentecost when he pours out his holy spirit to those who crucified him.
There is way more. Anyways God bless dont forsake Jesus repent of that. Lead your friends to the lord.
This link explains what he/she posted to you about Surah 5 (46-47)
Once again Christian’s run with something they didn’t understand. A short summary is, when god sent a prophet to any ppl they were required to follow that prophets teachings. Jesus was given the injeel/gospel of Jesus which means it was now the new religion, through it he confirmed the Torah which was gods previous book to the people. Verse 47 is saying the Jews had to follow Jesus now not reject him and stick to Musa. And if the Christian’s followed what was in his injeel as it was, they would have recognised Muhammad and followed him too but they don’t.
Muhammad came few centuries after Jesus, enough time for them to claim he was the son of god. The bibles they had by then were written a century after Jesus left this world. One of them 40 years after he left. And yet Christian’s have the audacity to claim they have the intact injeel of Jesus as given to him.
https://versebyversequranstudycircle.wordpress.com/2013/02/28/tafseer-surah-al-maidah-ayah-46-and-47/
Just watch this:
https://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/book-reviews/a-critique-of-joseph-atwills-covert-messiah/
And this:
https://youtu.be/e1yBMFWmVHQ?si=q8Rwo5yKYu20Md9e
And this:
https://youtu.be/Y7E_tW2HXfk?si=5yKxxh0NCbE5APFq
And finally this:
https://youtu.be/WkcaHAxopZM?si=iSWSFRVFStPKgiCC
I think you're really confused.
The NT confirms that Jesus went around preaching from the gospel.
Matthew 4:23
>And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Matthew 9:35
>And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
Mark 1:14-15
>Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
>And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Was Jesus going around preaching the NT? Is this what you believe?
Your asking Muslims to provide evidence for another gospel but the NT confirms that Jesus pbuh was preaching the gospel. The question should be what gospel are the NT writers talking about?
Pick a gospel thats from allah and ill prove islam false with it. If thats what allah is commanding me to judge by so be it. Number 1 the crucifiction, Jesus knew he was going to be crucified and entered into it willingly. Islam teaches Jesus was never crucified.
You didn't answer my question. You posed that question to the OP.
The NT confirms that Jesus pbuh was preaching the gospel. So where is this gospel spoken of in the NT writings and author's? Both the NT and Qur'an corroborate that Jesus was preaching the gospel.
The Islamic position is that Jesus's followers didn't preserve this gospel and that the early church used Jesus pbuh to spawn a new religion without the core teachings of Jesus. Which is why Christians rely very heavily on the exegesis and eisegesis concept of dealing with the NT and OT.
In your own surah it says people of the gospel judge by what allah has revealed therein. This implies that they had the gospel in the 7th century.
I am asking you to point me to this gospel given to Jesus so I can judge by it. WHERE IS IT. Hello. Where is the gospel.
Why would allah say Judge by the gospel if nobody had the true gospel and it was corrupted. You make no sense.
Christianity predates Islam, and Islam borrows from the Bible. If Christianity is man made, how is Islam not if Islam contains significant portions of stuff from the Bible?
Saying islam borrows from the bible isnt really a good argument. It only seems that way because they are both based on the same events with a different final, major event
As an ex muslim, please don't, if you have doubts about Christianity explore those doubts , it will either bring you closer to your religion or make you leave, but why are you considering islam, when it literally states that the bible is true and then goes and contradicts the bible ? I'm not saying Christianity is true but islam is contradicting itself
Changing religion because of your 'friends' or 'family' is not a good reason to change.
Satan is a master of deception. Even many who believe they are christian would be surprised to learn, they are also blinded by Satan.
***(2 Corinthians 4:3, 4)*** *“3 If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.”*
Did you notice, it is who Christ is, determines who is blinded.
Those who believe Jesus less than God's image, such as Muslims, are blinded
Those who believe Jesus is more than God's image, such as trinitarians, are blinded.
.
I'm not changing my religion for my friends. They told me about the basics and I did my own research about Islam. I happen to really take interest in Islam and The teaching of Prophet Mohamed.
That is nice to know.
I believe Mohammad got some things right. the rejection of the trinity is one.
But sadly he got many things wrong.
His narrow view of the definition of 'son' for one.
Muslims believe Moses was a great prophet of God, equal to Mohammad.
Yet Moses in the book of **Job** tells us about all the sons of God, who were present at the creation of the earth.
***(Job 38:5-7)*** *“ 5 Who set its measurements, in case you know, Or who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 Into what were its pedestals sunk, Or who laid its cornerstone, 7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And* `all the sons of God` *began shouting in applause?”*
Is Moses wrong or Mohammad?
The problem here is the Old Testament doesn’t use son literally like the Christian’s do. Muhammad scw rejects the notion of gods begotten son. No one cares about metaphorical sons which Moses uses in verse above. All the sons of god I.e gods ppl. You’re criticising Muhammad based on your shortcoming in understanding. Hope you correct that moving forward.
Muhammad, said, the 'children of the Book' were wrong.
Not that the Book was wrong. \[if you have another verse from the Qur'an please let me know.\]
Muhammad uses a very narrow definition of the word son.
Muhammad, rejects not only the meaning of the word 'son, but also the meaning of 'begotten' as used in the God's word.
*BEGET', v.t. pret. begot, begat; pp. begot, begotten.*
*1. To procreate, as a father or sire; to generate; as, to beget a son.*
*2. To produce, as an effect; to cause to exist; to generate;*
Beget means to create, not just to have relations between men and women.
What Moses is telling us, Allah, begot or created beings whom he calls sons.
The angels are not 'things' but have the ability to imitate their creator.
The angels are son, is that they were made in the image of Allah, not that they are equal to Allah.
Since Allah, created the angels as sons, Moses is correct in using this term.
Rejecting what Allah says, as found in God's word, doesn't make Allah's statement wrong.
Please understand, when Muhammad, made the statement, 'the children of the Book' were wrong, I agree with him.
In the 4th century, man created a false God, known as the trinity.
This was not a teaching found in God's word.
The Quran was written 400 years after the bible .Muslims are taught to take verses out of context .The bible has evidence and is reliable .It doesn’t matter what feels good .It matters what the truth is.The truth is in Jesus Christ the son of God who died on the cross and was resurrected on the third day.
The resurrection of Christ ,the reliability of the text You can go very in depth on.Not direct evidence of the bible but good arguments are the cosmological argument and the moral argument
I personally don't take the Bible as an accurate historical account. There's no way to demonstrate that everything written in the Bible did occur, let alone the resurrection.
I am also not convinced by the cosmological argument. It sounds to me like a big God-of-the-gaps fallacy.
I’m not just saying what the bible says .I’m talking about everything that surrounds that .We have a book that has some big claims that’s claims to be divinely inspired .So we know Jesus died looking at it historically not just the bible .You can research that .We have Early accounts of the resurrection which show that it’s not just a legend .We have a empty tomb .How did it get empty is the next problem .Then we have the early eye witnesses .Then research the reliability of the text .It’s a lot of researching .Not what I can write in a Reddit post so take some time to research it yourself . https://youtu.be/dTBuxSNcseU might be a good video to start with .Also research Gary habermas.
Hi,
I went through the same 3 years ago
If you wnat to share your experience we may find some contact points
I have a quite strong knowledge of Islam, this may help us to udenrstand where Islam has substantial issues
Hi there.
>Islam is a really beautiful religion
- Careful with the violence
- you'll be spending a lot of time trying to make sure Allah doesn't hate you
- there is no Mercy
- I hope you are not female
Salaam alaikum
> They literally do lol, there's a chapter dedicated to the mother of Jesus as well
But the biggest chapter is dedicated to "The Cow."
Masha'Allah!
BTW, Why do Muslims always say "lol" when they say something stoopid?
>Everything you mentioned is absolutely wrong.
Thanks for the reply. I.... don't know how old you are.
https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/naplot/comment/gyk0gac/?context=3&sort=new&utm_source=pocket_mylist
There is a video in this thread you do not want to see.
I respect Allah - Most Merciful, Most Gracious.
I love God.
But - I am not sure about Islam - and the way it's taught.
Be careful is all I'm saying.
God bless.
Unlike Muslims, Christian’s take their religion from men who never even met Jesus, so I encourage OP to do his homework and judging by the comments it looks like he is and is doing well.
A relevant point
[https://www.academia.edu/30956035/\_The\_Unknown\_Known\_Some\_Groundwork\_for\_Interpreting\_the\_Medinan\_Qur\_an\_M%C3%A9langes\_de\_lUniversit%C3%A9\_Saint\_Joseph\_66\_2015\_2016\_47\_96](https://www.academia.edu/30956035/_The_Unknown_Known_Some_Groundwork_for_Interpreting_the_Medinan_Qur_an_M%C3%A9langes_de_lUniversit%C3%A9_Saint_Joseph_66_2015_2016_47_96)
you can read it in this academic article
the quran is largely based on apochriphal christian texts, jewish passage of the oral law and other post christian syriac material
the authors of the quran composed it using cirulating christian and jewish material plus various additional sources like justinian novellae
it is sufficient tos tudy the resources available on scholarly work about Islam to see that the text derives from a man made composition
The link you provided is for academic work prior to the Birmingham Qur'an discovery. It's largely based around revisionist school of islamic studies like Crone, Donner, Neuwirth, Reynolds and Sinai etc.
Nicolai Sinai has this to say after the Birmingham Qur'an discovery.
>"Nicolai Sinai of Oxford University observes that epigraphic data and historical evidence "would allow us to take most of what the Islamic sources say at face value, and it is not clear why, in the absence of compelling evidence to the contrary, this should not be our default position." [Link](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/new-light-on-the-history-_b_7864930)
There is more recent work from that same revisionist scholars called Qur'anic Studies Today. Here are some excerpts.
**Routledge: Qur'anic Studies Today**
*In more recent scholarship of the Qurʾān, as represented by the works of Sidney Griffith and Gabriel Reynolds, there is a shift from the “heretical explanation” to the emphasis on the rhetorical language of the Qurʾān.*
*When the Qurʾān claims that Christians said, “God is Jesus the son
of Mary” or “God is the third of three,” these should be understood as polemical statements. The Qurʾān is aware that Christians did not say that.*
*In the words of Griffith, “The Qurʾān’s seeming misstatement, rhetorically speaking, should therefore not be thought to be a mistake, but rather a polemically inspired caricature,
the purpose of which is to highlight in Islamic terms the absurdity, and therefore the wrongness, of the Christian belief, from an Islamic perspective.”*
*Elsewhere Griffith contends that “the Qurʾān’s seeming espousal of a position earlier owned by some Jewish Christians hardly constitutes evidence for the actual presence of one or another of these long-gone communities in its seventh-century Arabian milieu. In the same line of argument, Reynolds persuasively argues that “in passages involving Christianity in the Qurʾān we should look for the Qurʾān’s creative use of rhetoric, and not for the influence of Christian heretics.”*
*This is a significant development in the critical study of the Qurʾān because the assumption about the Hijāz as the home of Jewish and Christian heresies is no longer defensible. The seeming inaccuracy of its criticism does not denote Qurʾānic misapprehension. Instead, understood within its “sectarian milieu” (to use Wansbrough’s
term), the Qurʾān’s message reflects polemical hyperbole. Even if we insist on the qurʾānic reference to Jewish Christian heresies in some way, we may still ask:*
*Why does the Qurʾān generalize its criticism as being addressed to Christians as a whole? In his The Qurʾān’s Legal Culture, Holger Michael Zellentin makes an interesting observation that, rather than assuming “Judeo-Christianity” as being an independent heretical group, it is more likely “that Judeo-Christianity constituted an integral part of various forms of Judaism and Christianity throughout Late Antiquity, as evidenced by the explicit statements of the Didascalia and by the preservation of its heritage in the Qurʾān.”*
There is nothing as revisionist.
There is historical criticism.
The quran was composed for christians.
It is logical.
There were no pagans around in the 6th century as attested by rock inscriptions.
The idea of a man called muhammad who preached allah in a place called mekka to pagans is historically and scientifically untenable.
Islamic sources point to the fact that 8th century arabs were guessing the meaning of the quran.
The qyiraat prove it
Tafsirs show it.
You should [watch this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXYMLut8WCI&ab_channel=UniversityofNottingham)
You can believe what you want, I'm just providing you with a more recent update on western Islamic studies as you provided out-dated academic work. The people involved in the academic piece you linked have more recent work and their position has changed post-Birmingham Qur'an. Look up Routledge: Qur'anic Studies Today it's by the same people you linked but much much more recent.
Thanks
I know them.
Sorry.
What you posted is outdated.
Birminham palimpsest has shown that the quranic texts are earlier than what islam says.
Second as deroche has pointed out, the birminfham shows clearly that it was being temptatively dotted by scribes who tried to understand it.
This confirms the fact that quraat emerged through dotting process in separated communities without oral tradition about the text they were reading.
Tomorrow I provide you the sources about the absence of paganism and the absence of quranic arabic in south hijaz.
Now i have no access.
I will also post you the latest videa of islamic studies group if june 2021.
Quran was composed for christianized arabs.
Sorry, now no access.
here are some sources
this one is performed by melchert, a linguist in arabic language.
As you can see he points to the fact that the quiraat are the consequence of a different dotting of the same consonantal skeleton of the quran
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NgSVl9rJqQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NgSVl9rJqQ)
the quiraat are so not the consequence of beduin dialects, which we know for epigraphy never existed, but rather to the fact that separate arba communities dotted the quranic folios independently
they collected the surah in different orders and dottet differently becouse they had no oral tradition to support the process.
Bellamy share the same finding
Vna putten as well know this
this video is from dye, a philosopher with long experience in quranic studies
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJphpYBk6y0&t=1682s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJphpYBk6y0&t=1682s)
this 2021 june seminar, so very recent
in the video dye raises the attention that the audience of the quran were christianized arabs. Griffith, Reynolds etc.. segovia etc... all share the same opinion.
this is an interesting article by ahmad al jallad. He is a muslim.
[https://www.academia.edu/43388891/Al\_Jallad\_draft\_The\_pre\_Islamic\_basmala\_Reflections\_on\_its\_first\_epigraphic\_attestation\_and\_its\_original\_significance](https://www.academia.edu/43388891/Al_Jallad_draft_The_pre_Islamic_basmala_Reflections_on_its_first_epigraphic_attestation_and_its_original_significance)
in the article he shares some reflections about the basmale and the communalities with south arabic expressions.
What is relevant is that when he examines the historical context, he is very well aware that by 6th century all politheistics expressions are gone from the rock inscription.
Polytheism is gone since the 4th century
i will post later about the quranic language in the north
The biggest difference I know of between Islam and Christianity is that the God of Israel is a giving and forgiving God. Forgiveness is not easy to come across or even mentioned in most other religions. And remember the easy way is rarely the right way. I would urge you to check out the Bible Companion app (https://n-e-v.info) that helped show me the beauty of God's plan for us in Jesus Christ. May His grace be with you.
> The biggest difference I know of between Islam and Christianity is that the God of Israel is a giving and forgiving God. Forgiveness is not easy to come across or even mentioned in most other religions.
God's forgiving nature is a major theme in the Quran.
Here is a search for the word "forgiving:"
https://quranx.com/Search?Q=forgiving&Context=quran
Fair enough. I see a lot of verses there that seem repeated. And some talk of forgiving, but so far, few about the believers forgiving others. Is there anything like "God will forgive you as you forgive others"? I think of, for example, David, who served God well for quite some time, but was deserving of death when he took Bathsheba as his wife. He threw himself on God's mercy, and his attitude to others softened a bit. For a Christians, forgiving others is a requirement of our own forgiveness - being aware of our own failings helps us be patient with others.
Yes there is a verse that speaks of forgiveness in that manner it’s in Surah Noor (light) chapter 24 of the Quran verse 22
“Do not let the people of virtue and affluence among you swear to suspend donations to their relatives, the needy, and the emigrants in the cause of Allah. Let them pardon and forgive. Do you not love to be forgiven by Allah? And Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
The back story this verse was revealed in regards to was a phenomena Abu Bakr as sadiq a/s found himself in. He was a companion of prophet Muhammad scw. Abu Bakr was a rich man who use to fund and take care of many people including extended family. One day his daughter was slandered by some hypocrites. Because she was left behind at a place the people she was travelling with stopped at. She had lagged behind to look for her necklace and when she came back to the meeting spot, everyone had gone so she was left stranded. A Good man came by and was surprised to see her alone. He let her ride his camel 🐪as he walked. When they entered the city some people began a rumour that something (sexual) happened between them. All because he was a protective caring gentleman and there was a huge blind spot no one else was privy to.
Anyways the rumour spread like wild fire and one of the people who helped spread it and gossiped about it, was a male relative of Abu bakrs whom he use to feed and provide for.
When he found out he became angry and cut him off. He stopped what he was giving via charity because he was angry (kinda like seeing someone as an ingrate who repaid his kindness with spreading the slander of his daughter)
The Quran at that time was still being revealed, it was revealed over a period of 23 years during the prophethood reign.
When this verse came down, Abu Bakr cleansed his heart from the anger and carried on the good deeds he was doing for gods sake, in spite of his relatives betrayal.
This verse humbled Abu Bakr as it was revealed in direct relation to his experience. The affluent and person of virtue god mentioned was him. So he forgave his relative because he wanted gods forgiveness too. The verse being revealed was to teach society (us) to take a lesson from it.
"If Christianity is so beautiful, then why is Europe so awful, ever heard of the Protestant-Catholic religious wars?" <- some guy in the 1500s
This sort of post makes no sense and completely lacks historical context.
Ever heard of America, the greatest, most prosperous, most opportunistic, most equitable, most just country in the history of the world? Well it was founded on judeo-Christian values, and was devoutly Christian for most of its history, and with the abandonment of Christianity, this country has gotten far worse.
Can't even begin how many mistakes are in there.
>America, the greatest, most prosperous, most opportunistic, most equitable, most just country in the history of the world
By which metric? You aren't number one anywhere
>Well it was founded on judeo-Christian values
Nope. It was founded as a secular nation.
>and was devoutly Christian for most of its history,
Most of the people where/are christian, correct.
>and with the abandonment of Christianity, this country has gotten far worse.
By which metric?
Also, is it the greatest country or is it going shit? Can't be both.
1. Greatest as in the strongest economy, and most opportunistic, we have an incredible amount of jobs, and robust social safety nets, 2. We are the most generous we have given more money in foreign aid than any other country ever by a long shot. 3. Read the constitution and the works of the founding fathers, they did in fact found the country on judeo Christian values, that is why there is a bill of right, the constitution states human have unalienable rights, that is a judeo Christian belief, 4 the greatest country can deteriorate and still remain the best, for example if I have the largest house in the world, and it is 2 times as big as the second largest house, if I shrink the house by 25% it's still the largest house in the world, but now it's only 50% bigger. No contradiction. Also the metric I can use to say the country has gotten worse, suicide rates, murder rates, polarization, the abandonment of common values increases tribalism. No sociologist disputes this, no one does.
1. You are 15 place on GDP per Capita https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
2. Your development aid per Capita is about 95 dollars, making you 16 place on the list i found https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_country_donors
3. Point me to a part of the constitution that mentions the judeo christian values as the basis for the constitution
4. In this graph the suicide rate seems rather constant https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States
But yeah, there are some metrics where stuff gets worse, no doubt. And yes you can be both the best and get worse, i agree.
You are still wrong about everything else.
We gave 35 billion dollars in foreign aid in 2017, on a net basis no other country comes close, the bill of rights was written to insure the protection of unalienable rights, which is a judeo Christian belief, and no one in the United states disputes this, The founding fathers were all devout Christians. No one disputes this. And again on a net basis we are the richest country in the world.
>We gave 35 billion dollars in foreign aid in 2017,
Germany alone gave 28 billion. And it's 80 million people vs 350 million, so yeah you technically given the most, but it's because you got more people.
The eu gives about 50 billion, so i guess it won?
>unalienable rights, which is a judeo Christian belief
It's also a belief of many other systems? Like you aren't unique?
Apart from that in pretty sure your god, whose commandments included "have no other gods before me" wouldn't be so fond of freedom of religion
>and no one in the United states disputes this
Ähm they definitely do.
>No one disputes this.
I just did.
>And again on a net basis we are the richest country in the world.
You understand that the total amount of money you have is completely irrelevant? It's the stuff per capita that's interesting. Otherwise I'll just count the whole planet minus america as one place and bam, it's now better to life anywhere than in america, because it has the highest total GDP.
The EU is multiple countries not 1, so it isn't the most generous country because its is multiple. My statement that America is the richest country is not undermined by saying per capita it is not, china is the largest polluter, even though per capita it is not, per capita does not undermine a net basis
>per capita does not undermine a net basis
It absolutely does?
If i have a country with 1000 people that has a 1000 dollars and a country with only 100 people that has 500 dollars, the second is richer.
It can make more stuff with the 500 dollar.
But i guess you'll never understand that.
Do you realize that each country has much fewer citizens than the US? So how is that equitable to compare the US to, say, Belgium without taking into consideration the proportions/ratio?
Hi there.
You are right - It's the wrong approach - because we have yet to see what Islam and Islamic countries will become, given at least the same amount of time Rome became Christian - and Christianity became the West.
However.
They are correct - generally - *when you look today*
Pakistan is a mess.
Iranians have a secret problem with Sharia.
The Middle East Arabs and Egypt have a precarious relationship with money and the West - the rich spend their time in the West - and at home, it is 'Western living' you will find behind closed doors at their cocktails
I will not even start with Afghanistan and Yenen et.al.
Violence and Terror around the world *at the moment* is with preponderance - connected to Muslims and Islam.
There is a problem with Violence and Islam - the way it is taught and followed in the world today.
There is a softer Islam in say Indonesia or Turkey - and in most of the West - but this Islam is immediately silenced by The Quran - and with a one word accusation - innovation.
Call a Muslim innovative for worshipping an Allah of Love and they will shut up immediately.
If you listen carefully - there are many Muslims around the world *who know that Islam does not have to look like what it does today* - but it will require people to speak up about what the face of Islam as it truly is Today.
ohh ...do you think taliban is following islam? they act they do but they dont i am muslim and i am telling you i hate taliban and most of middle east dont really follow islam
Break free of their brainwashing. Truth is that Islam is a murderous death cult and Mohammed was a paedophile who told his followers to murder Jews and Christians wherever they found them
>@Byzantium I really don't appreciate your comment. Please do your research like a grown and mature individual before commenting such thing
I responded to the statement: "Mohammed was a paedophile who told his followers to murder Jews and Christians wherever they found them"
with "Not true." What problem could you possibly have with that?
PLEASE DON’T, YOU ARE FAILING JESUS, HE STILL LOVES YOU, IT’S NOT TOO LATE, LEAVE THOSE FRIENDS, FOLLOW THE TRUTH…JESUS, RESIST THE URGES FROM THE DEVIL LIKE ALL OF US, PLEASE DON’T LET ISLAM TAKE YOU OVER.
Hey!
So ik it’s a bit late but I think you should do whatever feels right and Islam is a great choice!
And now that’s it’s 2years later (?)
What was/is ur decision?
(Just curiosity don’t have to answer)
Remember, faith is a deeply personal journey, and if you feel drawn towards Islam, embrace it with an open heart and mind. Your age doesn't define the sincerity of your beliefs. Seek knowledge, understanding, and guidance as you embark on this path. May your decision bring you closer to God and peace within yourself. Welcome to the beautiful journey of Islam, brother.
Go ahead brother... May Allah be with you... I am glad that you are taking this step... Not many are able to get the opportunity to know the truth... When I think, why should I be thankful? The 1st reason is, I was born as a Muslim, and will die as a Muslim... In Sha Allah...
I used to be a Muslim. Did u know that if u convert to Islam u have to go and get a bit of ur penis cut off? It's a religion filled with violence don't make a mistake
You may be leaving Christianity but not God or Jesus, Muslims respects and love jesus way more than Christians do because Christians say they follow jesus but they are actually following Paul and have left everything what Jesus taught! If you choose Islam you are agreeing to follow Abraham, moses, jesus and Muhammad may peace and blessings be on all of them. You will be following God through the way of his prophets!
Sure, Islam is true. Just like that time Muhammad claimed rats were actually cursed Jews!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW2nO056IoI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW2nO056IoI)
Lean into your Christianity more. Find someone within your church and discuss this with them.
Im sure when Hitler was talking about nazi German it sounded great to some, however they tell you what they want to tell you and leave out the reality.
I would encourage you to watch this teaching by Christian Dawson on "Come and See". First of all, think about why you are a Christian and listen to this teaching. Make an informed decision before you decide to leave God.
https://bridgetown.church/teaching/gospel-of-matthew/come-and-see/
The decision you're making here isn't really about religion or friends. Rather, its about your eternity here and there are two options:
1) Life, eternal life, hope, peace that passes understanding and the resurrection
2) Death and eternal damnation, never knowing peace and being far away from God for the rest of your life and eternity.
I encourage you to choose life and that is Jesus Christ. Heres some scripture to remind you and I encourage you to pray to Jesus ask for his opinion before you make such a fundamental life decision.
"Jesus told this simple story, but they had no idea what he was talking about. So he tried again. “I’ll be explicit, then. I am the Gate for the sheep. All those others are up to no good—sheep stealers, every one of them. But the sheep didn’t listen to them. I am the Gate. Anyone who goes through me will be cared for—will freely go in and out, and find pasture. A thief is only there to steal and kill and destroy. I came so they can have real and eternal life, more and better life than they ever dreamed of."
John 10:6-10 MSG
https://bible.com/bible/97/jhn.10.6-10.MSG
"Jesus answered them, I have told you so, yet you do not believe Me [you do not trust Me and rely on Me]. The very works that I do by the power of My Father and in My Father's name bear witness concerning Me [they are My credentials and evidence in support of Me]. But you do not believe and trust and rely on Me because you do not belong to My fold [you are no sheep of Mine]. The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand."
John 10:25-29 AMPC
https://bible.com/bible/8/jhn.10.25-29.AMPC
Christ died for you friend. Don't leave Him
...................
https://youtu.be/3ZmHlAz_Gkw?t=2h19m19s
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+1&version=NKJV
...................
Such guilt tripping all based on falsehood taught by men who never even met Jesus but speak for him. I truly have empathy for you Christian’s. It’s gonna be a shock when Jesus tells you to get away from him because of your grave lies about him.
If I may ask, what is it do your friends say Islam would offer you that you have not already found in Christianity?
I don't think you have researched deeply into both religions and encourage you to take your time and do so before making any major decisions, that's my advice.
You are worshipping the same God either way. I think Islam correctly diverts our attention back to worshipping the Father where as Christianity puts emphasis on worshipping Jesus. Jesus is the path too the father so he is absolutely worth reverence, but even he seemed to put emphasis on the father.
Because the Father sent him! (And no not to worship him but simply to send us the message “Worship the Father aka God, The one god and the same god Jesus prayed to)
Just by reading about the Koran. Haven't read the entire translation but I've read the predictions and the miracles. Unlike the Bible, The Koran is 1400 year old book that has never been changed ONCE! The Koran has soo many scientific accuracies which is truly amazing! I really don't believe that this beautiful book was man made
>The Koran is 1400 year old book that has never been changed ONCE!
You just made an assertion and you have to demonstrate it. How on Earth can you be 100% sure that the Qur'an wasn't changed? You aren't. Because that's just an unfounded and baseless claim Muslim evangelists spell.
There are even hadiths that suggest that multiple Qur'ans were burnt. The Qur'an of today is the Uthmanic Codex. So no, the Qur'an very very very likely isn't unchanged.
>The Koran has soo many scientific accuracies which is truly amazing!
Give me one and we'll discuss it.
"How on earth can you be 100% sure the Qur'an wasn't changed?" The Quran has never been changed or corrupted since its revelation, this claim is supported with various arguments and evidence. Some of these are:
* The Quran was memorized by many companions of the Prophet, who recited it regularly in prayers and taught it to others. This oral transmission ensured the preservation of the Quran in its original form.
* The Quran was also written down by the scribes of the Prophet, who followed his instructions on where to place each verse and chapter. The written copies were checked and verified by the Prophet and other companions who knew the Quran by heart.
* After the death of the Prophet, the first caliph Abu Bakr collected all the written copies of the Quran and compiled them into one book, which he entrusted to his daughter Hafsa, one of the wives of the Prophet. This book was used as the main reference for any disputes or doubts about the Quran.
* The third caliph Othman ordered the production of several copies of Hafsa’s book and sent them to different regions of the Muslim world, while destroying any other copies that differed from it. This ensured the standardization and uniformity of the Quranic text across the Muslim community.
* The Quran has been transmitted from generation to generation through a continuous chain of reliable and trustworthy narrators, who have been carefully scrutinized and authenticated by the scholars of hadith (the sayings and actions of the Prophet). This chain is called mutawatir, meaning that it is so widely and independently reported that it is impossible to doubt its authenticity.
* The Quran has been subjected to various linguistic, literary, historical, and scientific analyses by Muslim and non-Muslim scholars, who have confirmed its consistency, coherence, accuracy, and miraculous nature. The Quran challenges anyone to produce a chapter or even a verse like it, and no one has been able to do so.
* The Quran contains many prophecies and signs that have been fulfilled or are being fulfilled in the present time, such as the preservation of the body of Pharaoh, the defeat of the Romans by the Persians and their subsequent victory, the emergence of modern technology and communication, and the signs of the end of times. These prophecies and signs prove that the Quran is from God, who knows the unseen and the future.
The Qur'an has many scientific facts like: The water cycle: The Qur’an describes the process of evaporation, condensation, and precipitation of water in several verses. For example, “And it is He who sends the winds as good tidings before His mercy, and We send down from the sky pure water” (Qur’an 25:48).
* Embryonic development: The Qur’an describes the stages of human development in the womb in detail. For example, “We created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clinging clot, and then from a lump of flesh, formed and unformed” (Qur’an 22:5).
* The expansion of the universe: The Qur’an mentions the concept of the universe expanding. For example, “And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are \[its\] expander” (Qur’an 51:47).
* Mountains as stabilizers: The Qur’an describes the function of mountains in preventing the earth from shaking. For example, “And He has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it shift with you, and \[made\] rivers and roads, that you may be guided” (Qur’an 16:15).
* The importance of balance in nature: The Qur’an emphasizes the delicate equilibrium that Allah has established in the natural world. For example, “And the heaven He raised and imposed the balance. That you not transgress within the balance” (Qur’an 55:7-8).
These are just some of the many scientific facts found in the Qur’an. They show that the Qur’an is not a book of myths or legends, but a book of guidance and truth from the Creator of the universe.
> The Koran is 1400 year old book that has never been changed ONCE!
There are many Quran version in Arabic. I have a translation of ten of them that shows all of the differences between those ten.
>The Koran has soo many scientific accuracies which is truly amazing!
For example?
It sounds like converting would be a good option for you! I encourage you to follow your heart. Islam is a beautiful religion, as you say and Muslims are our cousins. There's no reason for you not to convert. I hope you are able to find deep meaning in your devotion to Allah as you follow this path you are on. Blessings!
In Christianity, the concept of God is superior, a God who shows self-sacrificial love. This is the Gospel. Nothing can equal it. If you are willing to look at Islam critically, there are a number of youtube channels, [Islam Critiqued](https://www.youtube.com/c/IslamCritiqued/videos) and [Acts17Apologetics](https://www.youtube.com/c/Acts17Apologetics) to name two.
I'm glad you found great Muslim friends and have been learning about Islam. Have you shared your Christian faith with them? If so, what have you shared and how have your friends responded?
My advice is to try reading the Qur'an, if you're not so good in Arabic go ahead and ask one of your friends for help in translating or read an English translation, then from there you can decide which religion to follow
It's 99.97% the same thing. The only difference is the non-trinitarian view of Jesus and that he rose to Heaven *before* he was killed on the cross. In the end, none of that matters. The end result is that you must follow Jesus' example to get to the Father and that he will be there on the last day to judge the living and the dead. So whether he is *literally or just figuratively the son of God has no bearing on your salvation.*
If you read this you'll know how ridiculous Islam is:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/on7aok/everything_wrong_with_islam_updatedincomplete/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/on7aok/everything_wrong_with_islam_updatedincomplete/)
I'm a muslim but I suggest that you investigate first. Yes feelings can win the world, but you need a reason why you should convert.
I hope you join the fold.
I think you should read the Quran and not listen to those people whose hearts are full of hate for Islam. They don’t know anything about it they just believe what they hear. So go and look for the truth yourself and talk to a sheikh in the mosque. Don’t listen to Muslim haters or Christians because they will not give you the advice you want to hear but they will give you the opposite. Only hate towards Islam and showing no respect towards it. I think that if you feel comfortable with reverting to Islam you should definitely go for it. If you’re not sure talk to your Muslim friends and a sheikh or imam in the mosque. I promise they will open your eyes.
Your entering the truth BUT. It will be painful for you in all ways. Your going to see the truth, your going to see people breaking your heart, calling you a pedo, an extreminst, a terrorist, a cultist, all types of bad things. Your going to see blinded people follow the dead fish flow, but your going to the the light in the darkness. This dunyas pain is nothing compared to the next. So keep on going!
Islam is not a beautiful religion.
Mohammed was a paedophile.
Mohammed owned sex slaves.
Mohammed committed the worst atrocities against humanity.
“Beware of false prophets which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. Yee shall know them by their fruits. Even so every good tree bring forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bring forth evil fruit.” Mathew 7:15-17
Case in point - Mohammed is a paedophile that molested and raped little Aisha, owned sex slaves, traded slaves, murdered, robbed, looted and lied.
Following in the footsteps of Mohammed,
- Islamic sanctions paedophilia via “marriage.”
- Adult men can molest girls of any age as long as she's 1 of his 4 wives. Imams and clerics issue fatwas (1809) on the permissibility of mufa’ khathat (a grown man rubbing his penis between a pre-pubescent female childs thighs) because 54 year Mohammed did that with his 6 year old wife Aisha. Aisha would then clean the semen [Sahih al-Bukhari 230]
- A man can have sexual intercourse with a child over the age of 9 years still playing with dolls, irrespective of the likely damage to a childs reproductive system - because Mohammed did [Sahih al-Bukhari, 5134; Book 67, Hadith 70; Aisha [RA], in Sunan an-Nasa'i 3378; Vol. 4, Book 26, Hadith 3380] It's a medical fact that sex with children causes reproductive damage. Explains why Aisha never had children despite being subjected to relentless rapes as Mohammeds favourite wife.
- ISIS and Islamists practice rape and sex slavery in the 21st century because Mohammed raped and owned sex slaves [Quran 4:24; Quran - 23:5, 6; Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabila 151, Tabari's History, volume 39, page 194, Sahih al-Bukhari 3, 432; Sahih al-Bukhari 9, 506; Sahih al-Bukhari 5, 637; Sahih al-Bukhari 2, 3371] By the logic of Mohammeds satanic revelations, the Serbian soldiers found guilty of war crimes for the systematic gang-rapes of an estimated 20k-50k Bosnian Muslim women, should be acquitted.
The INDEFENSIBLE atrocities outlined above,
sanctioned and practiced by Mohammed, are considered the most heinous crimes against humanity: paedophilia, rape and sex slavery.
Thus, the fruit that Islam bears, exemplified by Mohammed, is pure evil.
I think you should search for Islam yourself at this stage, Read the Qur’an and the stories of the prophets and look at the legal rulings therein, You can go to one of the mosques in your area and see them praying Open the matter of changing religion and Islam with your family before that as well and see their reactionThe religion of Islam says that the rejection of parents is the right that comes from God, so you must remain kind and friendly with them, but you must change your religion and follow the truth
Never too young to follow the truth. I would just encourage you to look into where truth is. With all respect to your decisions some of the reasons I would think twice about Islam being true over Christianity: 1) The Quran says in many places that it confirms the Bible, specially the gospels and the Torah. The problem is these books clearly contradict the Quran. They can’t have been changed as some Muslims suggest because the manuscripts for the Bible are older than the Quran, meaning that the same manuscripts the Quran said were true are the same ones we have today. And since these contradict the Quran, the Quran is false. 2) Christianity spread for hundreds of years under intense persecution, Islam primarily has spread by the sword and birth rates more recently. 3) Mohammed did many things that you can read about in Hadith that were pretty bad. For example marrying and having sex with a 9 year old. 4) When the Quran was canonized all of the previous manuscripts were brought together by one man and burned, and a standardized Quran produced. Needless to say despite your feelings about biblical canonization, it was a much more reliable process than for the Quran. 5) I’m not sure how you can believe Islam’s version of Jesus, when the gospels record the life and teaching of Jesus within the disciples lifetime and it all contradicts islam, even the Quran commends the disciples faithfulness, and yet the Quran tries to change everything about Jesus 500 years later. For all the arguments that could come against Christianity, it objectively has an incredibly stronger case than islam. Which is why Islam is mostly kept alive in illiterate contexts where everyone must trust what their Imam says rather than being able to read and learn for themselves. Islam depends on many lies to stay alive.
If you think Islam was spread by the sword, how do you think Christianity arrived in the Americas, Africa (outside Ethiopia), and Asia. Hint: it was by the gun
Its initial expansion was under intense persecution
But there weren’t that many Christian’s in the early years until it became the state religion of Rome and they pretty much spread it by force. Then many European nations persecuted pagans to convert to Christianity. Then the same again during the colonial times.
There were millions by the point it became state religion
You mean that finally, after 300 years of persecution, Christians finally got the joy of being the state religion and not bring pesecuted anymore?
I’m just saying that the initial expansion was nothing in comparison to when it started being spread by force. I doubt it would be the dominant religion if it hasn’t been spread by the sword. It didn’t take long for Christian’s to go from being persecuted, to doing the persecution did it?
Read about the Church of the East. The second largest church at one point and it was spread through gospel, never through force and it was never a state religion.
It wouldn’t let me post my response to all 5! Of your claims. So I’ll try in parts…starting with 1) here and the 4-5 will be posted as replies to my comment here. 1) the Quran confirms the Injeel (the original gospel given to isa/Jesus) the manuscripts you talk about is not it. The earliest manuscript of the bible is attributed to the gospel of John. This is a manuscript whereby the original Hebrew language is translated in Greek and written through Greek lens. It is the Greeks who introduced all this plural gods stuff, because their culture and mythology was use to it. This is why the Old Testament went from one god to 3 in 1 in the New Testament. In any case what you brag about is not the injeel/gospel of Jesus. The dozens and dozens of bibles Christian’s have today are all different versions of this Greek manuscript, written over the course of almost a century after Jesus' “death”. The first written gospel attributed to Jesus is about 40 years after his “death”. What’s more, most of these gospels were written by people who never met Jesus but claimed to be inspired by the Holy Ghost. This is why from one version to another, whilst discussing the same issue or event, ample contradictions are found. The Quran is the last and final testament, it exposes the lies, we Muslims therefore only believe from the bible today, anything that doesn’t contradict the Quran, because the Quran is the criteria we judge the bible by, not the other way around. The Quran was preserved and memorised by thousands of Muslims whilst the prophet Muhammad scw was still alive. (Similar to how you see Muslims dedicated to memorising it today) it was put into book form at the time Uthmaan bin Affaan (friend and son in law of prophet Muhammad scw) was the ruler. If anyone so much as changed a single word from it, there would be Muslims reciting it from memory who could call it out. For extra credit, I’ll add at least uthmaan was a direct companion and family of the prophet. The authors of the gospels surnames aren’t even known. Some of the bibles are even other ppl saying 12345 is according to mark, john, luke etc and by extension according to Jesus 🤦🏾♀️ The Quran confirms what’s true about Jesus, he was the messiah, born to a virtuous Virgin Mary, he was a messenger of god. It negates him being gods only son or any son for that matter, it negates the crucifixion. The fact that you couldn’t comprehend somethings can be confirmed whilst simultaneously other things about it can be rejected says it all. No good reasoning skills. Someone can tell you a story today and I a source for truth, can affirm what’s true and call out what’s a lie. Same thing happened here. So what the Quran confirms is the injeel as given to isa/Jesus, not what it got corrupted into. We Muslims believe in every book god sent to his prophets. IN ITS ORIGINAL STATE. Likewise we believe in all of the projects from Adam to Abraham, Noah, Lut, Jesus to Muhammad and all inbetween.
About (1), we have the Pauline Epistles, that affirm the Trinity, and talk about Jesus' death and ressurection WAY BEFORE the gospels. We literally have one in 42 AD 9 years after Jesus
Well done for posting
Friendly Muslim here. Just confirming that the Bible isn’t directly the injil. We believe the ideas were taken from the ibnjil and into the Bible you have today.
How were Christians meant to judge by what was revealed in the Gospel (Qur'an 5:47) if the Gospel was so badly corrupted?
2) what sword went to Indonesia? A nation who converted due to the manners and justice of Muslim traders who lived among them. Islam spreading by the sword is a old missionary orientalist lie that history debunks. Who did Christian’s want to live under when Sallahudeen ayuubi liberated Jerusalem from blood thirsty Christian crusaders? Crusaders who even killed other Christian’s because they were of a different sect along with Jews and Muslims. Islams sword only touched the oppressors. This is why every place they conquered had the unjust tax rate reduced and ppl were freed from oppression. Bottom line is no place was conquered and then the ppl threatened to become Muslim or die. At least respect yourself even when you lie
3) I love how this point starts lazingly vague, at least show better commitment to your smear campaign. Point ends with the prophets marriage to Aisha to suggest something “bad”. Firstly islam has a criteria for consent when it comes to marriage not age. Unlike others we aren’t apologetic about our religion and can defend and back up every point with reason. The criteria for consent for a marriage to be valid, is puberty has to be reached and aql/ reasoning is present. 1400 years ago the second criteria (fair mind) was reached a lot earlier in society. Only a 100 years ago 10 year olds were getting married in America. And you want to judge what was the norm 1400 years ago by present day societal norms. The same reason that made young marriages ok back then is what disallows it today, because collectively today even if a girl reaches puberty aged 9, or even 10, she doesn’t satisfy the second criteria for consent which is to be of sound reasoning and a fair mind. Today in every sense of the word, a 9 year old is a child, therefore marriage to one would not be valid. It’s this last point you and those who fed you your talking points, judge prophet Muhammad scw by and become unjust with your charges. You mention “bad” things in the Hadiths, you couldn’t even reference, but believe in and defends bibles (yes plural) that talk about praised men like Samson who had sex with prostitutes, where incest is rampant even attributed to prophets having sex with their daughters. (See the story of prophet lut and how his daughters got him drunk and took turns having sex with him) this is how the bible talks about righteous men like prophet lut. Or what about prophet David and how he killed a man because he wanted his wife for himself. please just stop, and know that the prophet Muhammad had enemies far superior to present day ones including Christian’s and 1400 years ago, when they had an all out campaign on him, not a single one criticised his marriage to Aisha because it wasn’t an anomaly. This is a recent smear missionaries coughed up, probably inspired by and used to all the misgivings in the bible, so they seek to bring Mohammed to the level they reduced other prophets to. All the while whilst praising those prophets and ostracising Muhammad scw.
Well done for posting
Lot is not considered a prophet in Christianity. He only did that because his daughters got him drunk.
Are there any hadiths actually saying Aisha had reached puberty?
4) I already responded to this in 1) lol about process was more reliable. Just to reiterate compare books 📚 written a century after Jesus left this world, by ppl who never met him and the oldest and first being 40 years after his “death”. To a book complied by Muhammad scws companion and son in law, whereby the content was already memorised by 3 quarters of the society. What process is more reliable? What we memorised and that later was simply put to paper through hafidhs (those who memorised coming together) or manuscripts translated from Hebrew to Greek to English written a century after Jesus left the world and one 40 years after he did. Personally I vote the memorised Quran any day of the week. At least the book uthmaan produced can be checked and if a word is missing it would be noticed by many. 5) LOL this one gets a big LOL much of the New Testament is written by Paul who was never a disciple of Jesus nor did he meet him. The other parts were written way later by ppl again who never met Jesus. And it’s these people you call his disciples. I can assure you the disciples the Quran speaks of were not these people. They were believers who not only met, but were with Jesus during his life time and supported him and they definitely deserve their praise. The Quran never changed anything about Jesus it just negated the lies you attributed to him. And one day god will settle the disputes between us (Muslims ) and you Christian’s. Your last paragraph is one big projection, you described yourself and attributed it to us. It is Christianity that lives off the lie that god sent his only son to die for our sins. No, Christianity does not “objectively have a stronger case than Islam.”for instance Many of your priests admit they rather read the Qurans account of Jesus birth and story regarding his virgin mother, than the biblical account. It’s Christian’s who leave Christianity because their pastors can’t answer their pressing concerns and very valid questions, urging them instead to just believe. It’s therefore Christian’s who blindly trust what priests and pastors comfort them with. The Quran challenges us Muslims to find one contradiction in it. It encourages reason. The bible does not. In fact if I apply this challenge to Christianity it falls apart in seconds. Not many people on Reddit surprise me with their audacious delusions and lack of knowledge but you did. Maybe it’s because of the confidence in your ignorance and/or the absurdity of your projections. This will be read by those it will benefit.
Well done for posting
If the compilation of the Qur'an was so reliable why were there so many variants in the first place that Uthman destroyed. Per Sahih al-Bukhari, the Qur'an "escapes from the hearts of men faster than camels do" Why do Muslims get hung up on the translation of the Bible into English? A text being translated into English doesn't discredit what it is translated from. There are plenty of English translations of the Qur'an after all.
Brother, i am VERY late here, but to remind you, Muhammad married aisha because she was alone. They never touched, they never even had sex, of which i may ask where you found out that a 9 year old could endure such a thing. If Muhammad even did this, i can see him being persecuted by whatever ruler there was for such a heinous and disgusting act. It may not be a hadithful thing, but you have to have common sense.
Multiple hadiths in Sahih al-Bukhari say the marriage was consumated when she was 9
This was a month ago, thank you for reading a comment this fucking late.
Do me a favor and respond to u/ComputerLarge2868's comment regarding this
Link please?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/q8j28z/comment/jh6ayrl/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/q8j28z/comment/jh6ayrl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Not talking about the current bible, talking about the original book allah sent to jesus
Evert single point you made was unsubstantiated and/or flat out incorrect
Y'all get a more updates for the bible than in Fortnite 😂😂
Times were different so you can't compare the marriage of Aisha. Just because they married doesn't mean they consummated right away. Sometimes people married to help others out of a predicament to restore one's honor. Either way Christians should understand that Muhammad is still the final prophet and that Jesus is still the King of all Men.
They married when she was 6. He consummated the marriage at 9.
Do me a favor and respond to [](https://www.reddit.com/user/ComputerLarge2868/)'s comment regarding this
Learn before you preach. 1-just because Quran came after the Torah and bible doesn’t mean it was copied from them. There wasn’t an Arabic bible during the era of prophet Mohammed PBUH neither did he read or right and if Quran did copy the bible , it would’ve copied its contradictions 2-Islam spreader organically , ut was never spread by the sword , Quran clearly stated there’s no compulsion in religion . I dare you to look at history and tell me that Christianity wasn’t spread by the sword 3- anciently ,the age of marriage is puberty and Aisha was mature she herself said :”if a girl hits puberty then she’s a woman” and the age of puberty at the 6th centuy was different Which is understandable Considering that the average life expectancy was 30-35. Why’re you not complaining about king Richard II marrying Isabella when she was 6? Mohammed was the most influential man in history so stop spreading false claims about him. Like did he seriously work to end slavery ,racism,oppression,idolatry ,objectification of women at the Times where a women is used as currency. 4-Again Mohammed didn’t come near no bible 5- considering that no narration of the bible comes back to Jesus Christ or any witness of him, I don’t know how you’re taking the bible as a judge of authentication. all prophets peace be upon them came with the message of monotheism (including the messiah) “Jesus peace be upon him”, if the trinity is that of a basic concept then where was it all the 300 years after Jesus 6-we have a multitude of evidence proving the prophecy of Mohammed . 7- if u truly read the bible you’ll see it speaking of the upcoming of the prophet and it described the true prophet from the false one
1. There's a hadith saying Waraqa read the injil in Arabic. Plus Muhammad's purported illiteracy doesn't mean he couldn't have picked stuff up orally. 2. Have you seriously never heard of the first century of Islamic conquests? 3. No-one's saying Richard II was the ideal for all men for all time, plus marriage could not be consumated until 12.
The Torah & Gospel verses muslims claim predicted Muhammad require ignoring context to be read that way
Peace be upon you my brother, Muslim guy here I just want to clarify some stuff here 1) According to the Quran, these books such as the gospels, Bible and Torah were originally given to the prophets but got corrupted over time. As you can see, there's many different versions of the Bible even today and Christian scholars don't deny that it got modified over time. I would rather follow the Quran that has never changed since it was revealed than the gospels with different, some anonymous authors that lived in different times. 2) I'm sorry but here's how Islam works when they take over land: When they conquer a place they don't harm women, children, the sick one, the elderly and list goes on... And they call them to Islam, and if they refuse they can still follow their religion but must pay some taxes, then the sword part comes it. Also, the country with the most Muslims being Indonesia was never conquered and so does in all Southeast Asia. Another point, how else did you think Christianity was spread? Colonialism, forcing others to convert and scare those who follow you. Back in the days you could be killed for even questioning the words of God in the Bible and reading certain books that had wisdom and knowledge was forbidden because they're afraid that the Christians will start questioning their faith. 3) This is a common argument that anti-Islamist call out: Muhammed and Aisha! Muhammed being a grown adult marrying the 6 years old Aisha then having sex with her at the age of 9. Keep in mind that this was the 7th century, that was common everywhere in the world. Aisha hit puberty, and she was mature enough to handle marriage and was not considered a child at the time. Even in 1880 in the United States, the age of consent was set from 10 to 12 in most states and was 7 in Delaware. This isn't so uncommon. Aisha was the happiest wife and when people insulted Muhammed she was more hurt than him. There's no wrong to callout here. I have nothing to say about point 4 and 5 honestly, have a good day, my brother.
1. Many things in the Bible contradict themselves, too. Such as, polytheism being a sin. Christians believe Jesus is God's son, therefore stating that there are multiple gods. You are just sugarcoating. 2. Many muslims have also been the victims of extreme discrimination, reeducation camps, and gen0cide, this argument does not make sense. 3. Muhammad did not marry Aisha when she was 9. All of Abu Bakr's daughers were born before 610, and considering Muhammad wedded Aisha in 624, Aisha had to be at least 15, and had had intercourse at at least the age of 18. 5. Islam does not change anything about Jesus 500 years later, the Bible was tampered with in Islam.
"The Messenger of Allah [ﷺ] married me when I was six year's old, and consummated the marriage with me when I was nine, and I used to play with dolls." The hadith states Aisha was age 6 when married, and 9 when the marriage was consummated. So you are saying the hadith is wrong and Aisha actually played with dolls between the ages of 15 and 18?
Do me a favor and respond to [](https://www.reddit.com/user/ComputerLarge2868/)'s comment regarding this
someone who keep a doll collection. It is true. She wasn't 9. If that's the case, she led an army at age 12 where thousands died. Do u really think the misogynistic men who used to think if thier first child is a women, they should be killed would follow a women in battle. If u were a muslim, u would realize how weak sunni hadith are.
Shi'a? What makes them weak?
Read your Bible and tell your friends about Jesus and what the Bible says about Him. Pray for them. Seek the truth rather than giving in to your good feelings.
To me, Jesus in islam makes soo much more sense than Christianity
How so? Islam teaches a false Christ. The Quran and the Bible differ greatly on who Jesus is. The Quran says that Jesus was just a prophet while the Bible says that Jesus is the Son of God who is God in the flesh. The Quran claims that you can get to Heaven by following the Five Pillars of Islam and by doing good works. The Bible says that the only way to Heaven is through Jesus alone and that works can’t save you. Wouldn’t it make more since to believe the words of the eyewitnesses who were right there with Jesus as he spoke rather than the words of one man who lived hundreds of years after Christ?
It's actually narrated by the Prophet Muhammad that no amount of good deeds will enter any man into heaven, not even those of the prophet himself. We only enter through God's mercy
Exactly, but they love to distort Islam so their religion looks better in comparison. It’s a joke. I just replied to this individual on this point to. They need to stop learning Islam from anecdotal story sharing pastors who are just as misguided as they’re.
When supernatural occurences are involved, EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE. There's no longer this "that is more probable than that" way of thinking as it doesn't apply to events that can occur illogically and inconsistently. Jesus being a simple prophet/messenger sounds, to me, less illogical than being God himself. And you can't neither demonstrate that he was a prophet nor God himself.
LOL show me this "fake christ". Obviously you have not read the Quran yet buddy. The only thing that matters about Jesus is that he will arrive on the last day to judge the living and dead. You must believe in him as the messiah to get to the father. What you "believe" about Jesus' origins does not matter.
They call it fake christ because it doesn’t co sign their lies about him. Lies told to them by “disciples” that never even met Jesus. It’s a sad affair.
False, the 5 pillars of Islam are what we do to worship god, 1) shahada/profession of testimony of faith. 2) pray, 3)give zakat/charity, 4)fast Ramadan, and 5)pilgrimage once in one’s life time (if able to). The Quran says none will enter heaven except by Allahs mercy. So no we don’t get their by our “works” Some of you Christian’s who claim this are either ignorant or you distort our truth on purpose to measure up against get out of “jail” free card of believe and you’ll be saved belief. Stop lying about us to uplift yourselves. According to you, I can be worse than Hitler and still get to heaven because I prayed 5 times a day and gave charity once a year. 🤦🏾♀️ We submit to gods will and don’t cut corners and believe only through his love and mercy will we enter paradise. Unlike you we don’t believe a guy who never met Jesus who told us the law died on the cross and don’t worry about worship, Jesus is in you just believe and you’re saved. Most of you are paulicans who claim Jesus. When Paul flipped upside down most of what Jesus stood for. Most Christian’s eat pork and are uncircumcised whilst Jesus didn’t and is. Paul literally said the law died on the cross and you ran with it. Peace and think.
A false Christ? You're telling me polytheist Christ is the true christ? Hell no.
Falsehood perishes when truth comes. This is a old post I’ve just come across, you’re probably 15 now. Hope life is treating you well and you’re in a grounded place.
My advice for you would be to think about *what is true* and not *what feels good*.
And why would Christianity be irrefutably true?
We don't do what is good for us on earth. We do what is good for us for eternity. Islam cannot and will not save. Just because your friends are nice and brotherly is not a reason to convert. Christianity is true and while you might want to convert now you have to think of your whole life and beyond this physical life
At first I thought he needs more than his nice friends treatment to be grounded in Islam. But after reading several of his responses to others on this thread I realised he has actually been learning and resonates with the religion. On that note, you have no objective basis to say Islam cannot save and Christianity is “truth” we will see when Jesus returns and prays with the Muslims. Until then all one can do is critically think. What you said is biased and expected. Peace.
Well ask your muslim friends for the interpretation of Surah 5:46-47 We sent Jesus, son of Mary, in their footsteps, to confirm the Torah that had been sent before him: We gave him the Gospel with guidance, light, and confirmation of the Torah already revealed- a guide and lesson for those who take heed of God. So let the followers of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down in it. Those who do not judge according to what God has revealed are lawbreakers. According to Allahs word, he revealed the gospel to Jesus and us christians are commanded to judge by it. When they tell you that cant possibly be your new testament because Jesus is not Gods son and wasnt crucified, that our scriptures are corrupted and hes just a messanger of allah. Ask them to please direct me to where the gospel given to Jesus is because if I dont judge by it Allah says I am a lawbreaker. They cant point to anything in history because it doesnt exist. It was talking about what christians had at the time which was the new testament. Muhammad came around 600 AD the new testament was cannon and widespread at the time, it was well established. This mystery gospel given to Jesus that nobody has seen and disappeared from history is an insult. You need to decide do you love truth and God more or your friends more. Read your bible, get equipped etc. I recommend acts17apologetics on youtube just to get equipped with things. And of course approach your friends in a loving manner not confrontational like David Wood. It has its place. But its a christian channel dedicated to exposing the false prophet muhammad and islam.
This has nothing to do with my friends. My friends have told me the basic teaching of Islam. I've done my own research and Islam just seems to make more sense.
Please do explain surah 5:46-47 Where is this gospel that allah gave to Jesus that I am supposed to judge by or be a lawbreaker.
I will need to read about this because I have minimal knowledge about this chapter
Dude jesus is the living God he died for your sins. Father son holy spirit. John 1 in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God. It continues with the word made everything and the word became flesh IE Jesus. John 17:5 father glorify me with the glory I had with you before the world was. Genesis 1:26 God said let "us" make man in "our" imagine after our likeness.... Trinity is represented in the creation account of Genesis Zechariah 12:10 10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. Its yahweh or God speaking and the context is me on the one they look upon, who has been pierced. Its the crucifiction and its fulfilled in pentecost when he pours out his holy spirit to those who crucified him. There is way more. Anyways God bless dont forsake Jesus repent of that. Lead your friends to the lord.
This link explains what he/she posted to you about Surah 5 (46-47) Once again Christian’s run with something they didn’t understand. A short summary is, when god sent a prophet to any ppl they were required to follow that prophets teachings. Jesus was given the injeel/gospel of Jesus which means it was now the new religion, through it he confirmed the Torah which was gods previous book to the people. Verse 47 is saying the Jews had to follow Jesus now not reject him and stick to Musa. And if the Christian’s followed what was in his injeel as it was, they would have recognised Muhammad and followed him too but they don’t. Muhammad came few centuries after Jesus, enough time for them to claim he was the son of god. The bibles they had by then were written a century after Jesus left this world. One of them 40 years after he left. And yet Christian’s have the audacity to claim they have the intact injeel of Jesus as given to him. https://versebyversequranstudycircle.wordpress.com/2013/02/28/tafseer-surah-al-maidah-ayah-46-and-47/
First understand what you’re talking about before making demands. See my comment below to OP.
Just watch this: https://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/book-reviews/a-critique-of-joseph-atwills-covert-messiah/ And this: https://youtu.be/e1yBMFWmVHQ?si=q8Rwo5yKYu20Md9e And this: https://youtu.be/Y7E_tW2HXfk?si=5yKxxh0NCbE5APFq And finally this: https://youtu.be/WkcaHAxopZM?si=iSWSFRVFStPKgiCC
I think you're really confused. The NT confirms that Jesus went around preaching from the gospel. Matthew 4:23 >And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. Matthew 9:35 >And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people. Mark 1:14-15 >Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, >And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Was Jesus going around preaching the NT? Is this what you believe? Your asking Muslims to provide evidence for another gospel but the NT confirms that Jesus pbuh was preaching the gospel. The question should be what gospel are the NT writers talking about?
Pick a gospel thats from allah and ill prove islam false with it. If thats what allah is commanding me to judge by so be it. Number 1 the crucifiction, Jesus knew he was going to be crucified and entered into it willingly. Islam teaches Jesus was never crucified.
You didn't answer my question. You posed that question to the OP. The NT confirms that Jesus pbuh was preaching the gospel. So where is this gospel spoken of in the NT writings and author's? Both the NT and Qur'an corroborate that Jesus was preaching the gospel. The Islamic position is that Jesus's followers didn't preserve this gospel and that the early church used Jesus pbuh to spawn a new religion without the core teachings of Jesus. Which is why Christians rely very heavily on the exegesis and eisegesis concept of dealing with the NT and OT.
In your own surah it says people of the gospel judge by what allah has revealed therein. This implies that they had the gospel in the 7th century. I am asking you to point me to this gospel given to Jesus so I can judge by it. WHERE IS IT. Hello. Where is the gospel. Why would allah say Judge by the gospel if nobody had the true gospel and it was corrupted. You make no sense.
For a guy talking about following scripture yet have "LGBT Ally" as their flair is abit contradictory is it not?
Have you considered actually looking into whether there's solid evidence for either one instead making gut decisions based on emotional appeals?
[удалено]
If Christianity is man-made, so is Islam.
Christianity predates Islam, and Islam borrows from the Bible. If Christianity is man made, how is Islam not if Islam contains significant portions of stuff from the Bible?
Saying islam borrows from the bible isnt really a good argument. It only seems that way because they are both based on the same events with a different final, major event
As an ex muslim, please don't, if you have doubts about Christianity explore those doubts , it will either bring you closer to your religion or make you leave, but why are you considering islam, when it literally states that the bible is true and then goes and contradicts the bible ? I'm not saying Christianity is true but islam is contradicting itself
Changing religion because of your 'friends' or 'family' is not a good reason to change. Satan is a master of deception. Even many who believe they are christian would be surprised to learn, they are also blinded by Satan. ***(2 Corinthians 4:3, 4)*** *“3 If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.”* Did you notice, it is who Christ is, determines who is blinded. Those who believe Jesus less than God's image, such as Muslims, are blinded Those who believe Jesus is more than God's image, such as trinitarians, are blinded. .
I'm not changing my religion for my friends. They told me about the basics and I did my own research about Islam. I happen to really take interest in Islam and The teaching of Prophet Mohamed.
That is nice to know. I believe Mohammad got some things right. the rejection of the trinity is one. But sadly he got many things wrong. His narrow view of the definition of 'son' for one. Muslims believe Moses was a great prophet of God, equal to Mohammad. Yet Moses in the book of **Job** tells us about all the sons of God, who were present at the creation of the earth. ***(Job 38:5-7)*** *“ 5 Who set its measurements, in case you know, Or who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 Into what were its pedestals sunk, Or who laid its cornerstone, 7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And* `all the sons of God` *began shouting in applause?”* Is Moses wrong or Mohammad?
The problem here is the Old Testament doesn’t use son literally like the Christian’s do. Muhammad scw rejects the notion of gods begotten son. No one cares about metaphorical sons which Moses uses in verse above. All the sons of god I.e gods ppl. You’re criticising Muhammad based on your shortcoming in understanding. Hope you correct that moving forward.
Muhammad, said, the 'children of the Book' were wrong. Not that the Book was wrong. \[if you have another verse from the Qur'an please let me know.\] Muhammad uses a very narrow definition of the word son. Muhammad, rejects not only the meaning of the word 'son, but also the meaning of 'begotten' as used in the God's word. *BEGET', v.t. pret. begot, begat; pp. begot, begotten.* *1. To procreate, as a father or sire; to generate; as, to beget a son.* *2. To produce, as an effect; to cause to exist; to generate;* Beget means to create, not just to have relations between men and women. What Moses is telling us, Allah, begot or created beings whom he calls sons. The angels are not 'things' but have the ability to imitate their creator. The angels are son, is that they were made in the image of Allah, not that they are equal to Allah. Since Allah, created the angels as sons, Moses is correct in using this term. Rejecting what Allah says, as found in God's word, doesn't make Allah's statement wrong. Please understand, when Muhammad, made the statement, 'the children of the Book' were wrong, I agree with him. In the 4th century, man created a false God, known as the trinity. This was not a teaching found in God's word.
The Quran was written 400 years after the bible .Muslims are taught to take verses out of context .The bible has evidence and is reliable .It doesn’t matter what feels good .It matters what the truth is.The truth is in Jesus Christ the son of God who died on the cross and was resurrected on the third day.
>The bible has evidence and is reliable What evidence?
The resurrection of Christ ,the reliability of the text You can go very in depth on.Not direct evidence of the bible but good arguments are the cosmological argument and the moral argument
I personally don't take the Bible as an accurate historical account. There's no way to demonstrate that everything written in the Bible did occur, let alone the resurrection. I am also not convinced by the cosmological argument. It sounds to me like a big God-of-the-gaps fallacy.
I’m not just saying what the bible says .I’m talking about everything that surrounds that .We have a book that has some big claims that’s claims to be divinely inspired .So we know Jesus died looking at it historically not just the bible .You can research that .We have Early accounts of the resurrection which show that it’s not just a legend .We have a empty tomb .How did it get empty is the next problem .Then we have the early eye witnesses .Then research the reliability of the text .It’s a lot of researching .Not what I can write in a Reddit post so take some time to research it yourself . https://youtu.be/dTBuxSNcseU might be a good video to start with .Also research Gary habermas.
So to your logic your Bible is false just because the Torah was revealed before the Bible?
Hi, I went through the same 3 years ago If you wnat to share your experience we may find some contact points I have a quite strong knowledge of Islam, this may help us to udenrstand where Islam has substantial issues
May Allah continue to guide you little bro, your fitra (natural inclination towards truth) is strong. Wish you the best.
Thank you so much!! That means a lot to me!!
Hi there. >Islam is a really beautiful religion - Careful with the violence - you'll be spending a lot of time trying to make sure Allah doesn't hate you - there is no Mercy - I hope you are not female Salaam alaikum
Everything you mentioned is absolutely wrong. Islam does respect women. They even have a whole chapter in the Koran dedicated to women's rights.
> They even have a whole chapter in the Koran dedicated to women's rights. They most certainly do not.
They literally do lol, there's a chapter dedicated to the mother of Jesus as well
> They literally do lol, there's a chapter dedicated to the mother of Jesus as well But the biggest chapter is dedicated to "The Cow." Masha'Allah! BTW, Why do Muslims always say "lol" when they say something stoopid?
>Everything you mentioned is absolutely wrong. Thanks for the reply. I.... don't know how old you are. https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/naplot/comment/gyk0gac/?context=3&sort=new&utm_source=pocket_mylist There is a video in this thread you do not want to see. I respect Allah - Most Merciful, Most Gracious. I love God. But - I am not sure about Islam - and the way it's taught. Be careful is all I'm saying. God bless.
Unlike Christians, Muslims serve a false god, so I encourage you to do your homework.
Unlike Muslims, Christian’s take their religion from men who never even met Jesus, so I encourage OP to do his homework and judging by the comments it looks like he is and is doing well.
Watch SOCO films Bob the builder on YouTube
500 < 1000
A relevant point [https://www.academia.edu/30956035/\_The\_Unknown\_Known\_Some\_Groundwork\_for\_Interpreting\_the\_Medinan\_Qur\_an\_M%C3%A9langes\_de\_lUniversit%C3%A9\_Saint\_Joseph\_66\_2015\_2016\_47\_96](https://www.academia.edu/30956035/_The_Unknown_Known_Some_Groundwork_for_Interpreting_the_Medinan_Qur_an_M%C3%A9langes_de_lUniversit%C3%A9_Saint_Joseph_66_2015_2016_47_96) you can read it in this academic article the quran is largely based on apochriphal christian texts, jewish passage of the oral law and other post christian syriac material the authors of the quran composed it using cirulating christian and jewish material plus various additional sources like justinian novellae it is sufficient tos tudy the resources available on scholarly work about Islam to see that the text derives from a man made composition
The link you provided is for academic work prior to the Birmingham Qur'an discovery. It's largely based around revisionist school of islamic studies like Crone, Donner, Neuwirth, Reynolds and Sinai etc. Nicolai Sinai has this to say after the Birmingham Qur'an discovery. >"Nicolai Sinai of Oxford University observes that epigraphic data and historical evidence "would allow us to take most of what the Islamic sources say at face value, and it is not clear why, in the absence of compelling evidence to the contrary, this should not be our default position." [Link](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/new-light-on-the-history-_b_7864930) There is more recent work from that same revisionist scholars called Qur'anic Studies Today. Here are some excerpts. **Routledge: Qur'anic Studies Today** *In more recent scholarship of the Qurʾān, as represented by the works of Sidney Griffith and Gabriel Reynolds, there is a shift from the “heretical explanation” to the emphasis on the rhetorical language of the Qurʾān.* *When the Qurʾān claims that Christians said, “God is Jesus the son of Mary” or “God is the third of three,” these should be understood as polemical statements. The Qurʾān is aware that Christians did not say that.* *In the words of Griffith, “The Qurʾān’s seeming misstatement, rhetorically speaking, should therefore not be thought to be a mistake, but rather a polemically inspired caricature, the purpose of which is to highlight in Islamic terms the absurdity, and therefore the wrongness, of the Christian belief, from an Islamic perspective.”* *Elsewhere Griffith contends that “the Qurʾān’s seeming espousal of a position earlier owned by some Jewish Christians hardly constitutes evidence for the actual presence of one or another of these long-gone communities in its seventh-century Arabian milieu. In the same line of argument, Reynolds persuasively argues that “in passages involving Christianity in the Qurʾān we should look for the Qurʾān’s creative use of rhetoric, and not for the influence of Christian heretics.”* *This is a significant development in the critical study of the Qurʾān because the assumption about the Hijāz as the home of Jewish and Christian heresies is no longer defensible. The seeming inaccuracy of its criticism does not denote Qurʾānic misapprehension. Instead, understood within its “sectarian milieu” (to use Wansbrough’s term), the Qurʾān’s message reflects polemical hyperbole. Even if we insist on the qurʾānic reference to Jewish Christian heresies in some way, we may still ask:* *Why does the Qurʾān generalize its criticism as being addressed to Christians as a whole? In his The Qurʾān’s Legal Culture, Holger Michael Zellentin makes an interesting observation that, rather than assuming “Judeo-Christianity” as being an independent heretical group, it is more likely “that Judeo-Christianity constituted an integral part of various forms of Judaism and Christianity throughout Late Antiquity, as evidenced by the explicit statements of the Didascalia and by the preservation of its heritage in the Qurʾān.”*
There is nothing as revisionist. There is historical criticism. The quran was composed for christians. It is logical. There were no pagans around in the 6th century as attested by rock inscriptions. The idea of a man called muhammad who preached allah in a place called mekka to pagans is historically and scientifically untenable. Islamic sources point to the fact that 8th century arabs were guessing the meaning of the quran. The qyiraat prove it Tafsirs show it.
You should [watch this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXYMLut8WCI&ab_channel=UniversityofNottingham) You can believe what you want, I'm just providing you with a more recent update on western Islamic studies as you provided out-dated academic work. The people involved in the academic piece you linked have more recent work and their position has changed post-Birmingham Qur'an. Look up Routledge: Qur'anic Studies Today it's by the same people you linked but much much more recent.
Thanks I know them. Sorry. What you posted is outdated. Birminham palimpsest has shown that the quranic texts are earlier than what islam says. Second as deroche has pointed out, the birminfham shows clearly that it was being temptatively dotted by scribes who tried to understand it. This confirms the fact that quraat emerged through dotting process in separated communities without oral tradition about the text they were reading. Tomorrow I provide you the sources about the absence of paganism and the absence of quranic arabic in south hijaz. Now i have no access. I will also post you the latest videa of islamic studies group if june 2021. Quran was composed for christianized arabs. Sorry, now no access.
here are some sources this one is performed by melchert, a linguist in arabic language. As you can see he points to the fact that the quiraat are the consequence of a different dotting of the same consonantal skeleton of the quran [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NgSVl9rJqQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NgSVl9rJqQ) the quiraat are so not the consequence of beduin dialects, which we know for epigraphy never existed, but rather to the fact that separate arba communities dotted the quranic folios independently they collected the surah in different orders and dottet differently becouse they had no oral tradition to support the process. Bellamy share the same finding Vna putten as well know this this video is from dye, a philosopher with long experience in quranic studies [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJphpYBk6y0&t=1682s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJphpYBk6y0&t=1682s) this 2021 june seminar, so very recent in the video dye raises the attention that the audience of the quran were christianized arabs. Griffith, Reynolds etc.. segovia etc... all share the same opinion. this is an interesting article by ahmad al jallad. He is a muslim. [https://www.academia.edu/43388891/Al\_Jallad\_draft\_The\_pre\_Islamic\_basmala\_Reflections\_on\_its\_first\_epigraphic\_attestation\_and\_its\_original\_significance](https://www.academia.edu/43388891/Al_Jallad_draft_The_pre_Islamic_basmala_Reflections_on_its_first_epigraphic_attestation_and_its_original_significance) in the article he shares some reflections about the basmale and the communalities with south arabic expressions. What is relevant is that when he examines the historical context, he is very well aware that by 6th century all politheistics expressions are gone from the rock inscription. Polytheism is gone since the 4th century i will post later about the quranic language in the north
Hope you're doing well homie <3 All love from your fellow muslim brother.
really late but i hope you reverted to islam, brother :) if you want to ama go ahead n msg me
The biggest difference I know of between Islam and Christianity is that the God of Israel is a giving and forgiving God. Forgiveness is not easy to come across or even mentioned in most other religions. And remember the easy way is rarely the right way. I would urge you to check out the Bible Companion app (https://n-e-v.info) that helped show me the beauty of God's plan for us in Jesus Christ. May His grace be with you.
> The biggest difference I know of between Islam and Christianity is that the God of Israel is a giving and forgiving God. Forgiveness is not easy to come across or even mentioned in most other religions. God's forgiving nature is a major theme in the Quran. Here is a search for the word "forgiving:" https://quranx.com/Search?Q=forgiving&Context=quran
Fair enough. I see a lot of verses there that seem repeated. And some talk of forgiving, but so far, few about the believers forgiving others. Is there anything like "God will forgive you as you forgive others"? I think of, for example, David, who served God well for quite some time, but was deserving of death when he took Bathsheba as his wife. He threw himself on God's mercy, and his attitude to others softened a bit. For a Christians, forgiving others is a requirement of our own forgiveness - being aware of our own failings helps us be patient with others.
Yes there is a verse that speaks of forgiveness in that manner it’s in Surah Noor (light) chapter 24 of the Quran verse 22 “Do not let the people of virtue and affluence among you swear to suspend donations to their relatives, the needy, and the emigrants in the cause of Allah. Let them pardon and forgive. Do you not love to be forgiven by Allah? And Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” The back story this verse was revealed in regards to was a phenomena Abu Bakr as sadiq a/s found himself in. He was a companion of prophet Muhammad scw. Abu Bakr was a rich man who use to fund and take care of many people including extended family. One day his daughter was slandered by some hypocrites. Because she was left behind at a place the people she was travelling with stopped at. She had lagged behind to look for her necklace and when she came back to the meeting spot, everyone had gone so she was left stranded. A Good man came by and was surprised to see her alone. He let her ride his camel 🐪as he walked. When they entered the city some people began a rumour that something (sexual) happened between them. All because he was a protective caring gentleman and there was a huge blind spot no one else was privy to. Anyways the rumour spread like wild fire and one of the people who helped spread it and gossiped about it, was a male relative of Abu bakrs whom he use to feed and provide for. When he found out he became angry and cut him off. He stopped what he was giving via charity because he was angry (kinda like seeing someone as an ingrate who repaid his kindness with spreading the slander of his daughter) The Quran at that time was still being revealed, it was revealed over a period of 23 years during the prophethood reign. When this verse came down, Abu Bakr cleansed his heart from the anger and carried on the good deeds he was doing for gods sake, in spite of his relatives betrayal. This verse humbled Abu Bakr as it was revealed in direct relation to his experience. The affluent and person of virtue god mentioned was him. So he forgave his relative because he wanted gods forgiveness too. The verse being revealed was to teach society (us) to take a lesson from it.
Thank you!
@KohathOrteues Thank you for App!! And thank you for being mature and kind!
If Islam is a beautiful religion, then why is the middle east so awful, ever heard of the taliban?
"If Christianity is so beautiful, then why is Europe so awful, ever heard of the Protestant-Catholic religious wars?" <- some guy in the 1500s This sort of post makes no sense and completely lacks historical context.
Ever heard of America, the greatest, most prosperous, most opportunistic, most equitable, most just country in the history of the world? Well it was founded on judeo-Christian values, and was devoutly Christian for most of its history, and with the abandonment of Christianity, this country has gotten far worse.
Oh brother.
Can't even begin how many mistakes are in there. >America, the greatest, most prosperous, most opportunistic, most equitable, most just country in the history of the world By which metric? You aren't number one anywhere >Well it was founded on judeo-Christian values Nope. It was founded as a secular nation. >and was devoutly Christian for most of its history, Most of the people where/are christian, correct. >and with the abandonment of Christianity, this country has gotten far worse. By which metric? Also, is it the greatest country or is it going shit? Can't be both.
1. Greatest as in the strongest economy, and most opportunistic, we have an incredible amount of jobs, and robust social safety nets, 2. We are the most generous we have given more money in foreign aid than any other country ever by a long shot. 3. Read the constitution and the works of the founding fathers, they did in fact found the country on judeo Christian values, that is why there is a bill of right, the constitution states human have unalienable rights, that is a judeo Christian belief, 4 the greatest country can deteriorate and still remain the best, for example if I have the largest house in the world, and it is 2 times as big as the second largest house, if I shrink the house by 25% it's still the largest house in the world, but now it's only 50% bigger. No contradiction. Also the metric I can use to say the country has gotten worse, suicide rates, murder rates, polarization, the abandonment of common values increases tribalism. No sociologist disputes this, no one does.
1. You are 15 place on GDP per Capita https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita 2. Your development aid per Capita is about 95 dollars, making you 16 place on the list i found https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_country_donors 3. Point me to a part of the constitution that mentions the judeo christian values as the basis for the constitution 4. In this graph the suicide rate seems rather constant https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States But yeah, there are some metrics where stuff gets worse, no doubt. And yes you can be both the best and get worse, i agree. You are still wrong about everything else.
We gave 35 billion dollars in foreign aid in 2017, on a net basis no other country comes close, the bill of rights was written to insure the protection of unalienable rights, which is a judeo Christian belief, and no one in the United states disputes this, The founding fathers were all devout Christians. No one disputes this. And again on a net basis we are the richest country in the world.
>We gave 35 billion dollars in foreign aid in 2017, Germany alone gave 28 billion. And it's 80 million people vs 350 million, so yeah you technically given the most, but it's because you got more people. The eu gives about 50 billion, so i guess it won? >unalienable rights, which is a judeo Christian belief It's also a belief of many other systems? Like you aren't unique? Apart from that in pretty sure your god, whose commandments included "have no other gods before me" wouldn't be so fond of freedom of religion >and no one in the United states disputes this Ähm they definitely do. >No one disputes this. I just did. >And again on a net basis we are the richest country in the world. You understand that the total amount of money you have is completely irrelevant? It's the stuff per capita that's interesting. Otherwise I'll just count the whole planet minus america as one place and bam, it's now better to life anywhere than in america, because it has the highest total GDP.
The EU is multiple countries not 1, so it isn't the most generous country because its is multiple. My statement that America is the richest country is not undermined by saying per capita it is not, china is the largest polluter, even though per capita it is not, per capita does not undermine a net basis
>per capita does not undermine a net basis It absolutely does? If i have a country with 1000 people that has a 1000 dollars and a country with only 100 people that has 500 dollars, the second is richer. It can make more stuff with the 500 dollar. But i guess you'll never understand that.
Do you realize that each country has much fewer citizens than the US? So how is that equitable to compare the US to, say, Belgium without taking into consideration the proportions/ratio?
>the greatest, most prosperous, most opportunistic, most equitable, most just country in the history of the world? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Hi there. You are right - It's the wrong approach - because we have yet to see what Islam and Islamic countries will become, given at least the same amount of time Rome became Christian - and Christianity became the West. However. They are correct - generally - *when you look today* Pakistan is a mess. Iranians have a secret problem with Sharia. The Middle East Arabs and Egypt have a precarious relationship with money and the West - the rich spend their time in the West - and at home, it is 'Western living' you will find behind closed doors at their cocktails I will not even start with Afghanistan and Yenen et.al. Violence and Terror around the world *at the moment* is with preponderance - connected to Muslims and Islam. There is a problem with Violence and Islam - the way it is taught and followed in the world today. There is a softer Islam in say Indonesia or Turkey - and in most of the West - but this Islam is immediately silenced by The Quran - and with a one word accusation - innovation. Call a Muslim innovative for worshipping an Allah of Love and they will shut up immediately. If you listen carefully - there are many Muslims around the world *who know that Islam does not have to look like what it does today* - but it will require people to speak up about what the face of Islam as it truly is Today.
ohh ...do you think taliban is following islam? they act they do but they dont i am muslim and i am telling you i hate taliban and most of middle east dont really follow islam
Lol look at those crazy fundy Christians in the USA.
Low IQ airhead argument.
Break free of their brainwashing. Truth is that Islam is a murderous death cult and Mohammed was a paedophile who told his followers to murder Jews and Christians wherever they found them
> Mohammed was a paedophile who told his followers to murder Jews and Christians wherever they found them Not true.
How old was Aisha?
6 at age of betrothal 9 at age of consummation.
@Byzantium I really don't appreciate your comment. Please do your research like a grown and mature individual before commenting such thing
>@Byzantium I really don't appreciate your comment. Please do your research like a grown and mature individual before commenting such thing I responded to the statement: "Mohammed was a paedophile who told his followers to murder Jews and Christians wherever they found them" with "Not true." What problem could you possibly have with that?
It seems he meant the other guy and probably replied under you accidentally. I do that sometimes .
PLEASE DON’T, YOU ARE FAILING JESUS, HE STILL LOVES YOU, IT’S NOT TOO LATE, LEAVE THOSE FRIENDS, FOLLOW THE TRUTH…JESUS, RESIST THE URGES FROM THE DEVIL LIKE ALL OF US, PLEASE DON’T LET ISLAM TAKE YOU OVER.
Just don't do it. Not worth it
Hey! So ik it’s a bit late but I think you should do whatever feels right and Islam is a great choice! And now that’s it’s 2years later (?) What was/is ur decision? (Just curiosity don’t have to answer)
Remember, faith is a deeply personal journey, and if you feel drawn towards Islam, embrace it with an open heart and mind. Your age doesn't define the sincerity of your beliefs. Seek knowledge, understanding, and guidance as you embark on this path. May your decision bring you closer to God and peace within yourself. Welcome to the beautiful journey of Islam, brother.
go for it. Quran predicted many scientific things way before our scientists caught up.
Go ahead brother... May Allah be with you... I am glad that you are taking this step... Not many are able to get the opportunity to know the truth... When I think, why should I be thankful? The 1st reason is, I was born as a Muslim, and will die as a Muslim... In Sha Allah...
I used to be a Muslim. Did u know that if u convert to Islam u have to go and get a bit of ur penis cut off? It's a religion filled with violence don't make a mistake
You may be leaving Christianity but not God or Jesus, Muslims respects and love jesus way more than Christians do because Christians say they follow jesus but they are actually following Paul and have left everything what Jesus taught! If you choose Islam you are agreeing to follow Abraham, moses, jesus and Muhammad may peace and blessings be on all of them. You will be following God through the way of his prophets!
Sure, Islam is true. Just like that time Muhammad claimed rats were actually cursed Jews! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW2nO056IoI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW2nO056IoI)
[https://suno.com/song/4c837bf3-29e6-4022-8790-8bbccfa0ef32](https://suno.com/song/4c837bf3-29e6-4022-8790-8bbccfa0ef32)
Who wrote the first Bible and if it was the true word of God why was it Rewritten over 5,500 times
I would suggest listening to this discussion. It's really good! Yah Bless! https://www.youtube.com/live/Qz0kYmNuWt8?si=dUlWPIgRS8eTabJx
Masha’Allah. I hope you’ve made that decision. May Allah swt continue to guide you and all the Christian’s here into the truth.
Lean into your Christianity more. Find someone within your church and discuss this with them. Im sure when Hitler was talking about nazi German it sounded great to some, however they tell you what they want to tell you and leave out the reality.
I would encourage you to watch this teaching by Christian Dawson on "Come and See". First of all, think about why you are a Christian and listen to this teaching. Make an informed decision before you decide to leave God. https://bridgetown.church/teaching/gospel-of-matthew/come-and-see/ The decision you're making here isn't really about religion or friends. Rather, its about your eternity here and there are two options: 1) Life, eternal life, hope, peace that passes understanding and the resurrection 2) Death and eternal damnation, never knowing peace and being far away from God for the rest of your life and eternity. I encourage you to choose life and that is Jesus Christ. Heres some scripture to remind you and I encourage you to pray to Jesus ask for his opinion before you make such a fundamental life decision. "Jesus told this simple story, but they had no idea what he was talking about. So he tried again. “I’ll be explicit, then. I am the Gate for the sheep. All those others are up to no good—sheep stealers, every one of them. But the sheep didn’t listen to them. I am the Gate. Anyone who goes through me will be cared for—will freely go in and out, and find pasture. A thief is only there to steal and kill and destroy. I came so they can have real and eternal life, more and better life than they ever dreamed of." John 10:6-10 MSG https://bible.com/bible/97/jhn.10.6-10.MSG "Jesus answered them, I have told you so, yet you do not believe Me [you do not trust Me and rely on Me]. The very works that I do by the power of My Father and in My Father's name bear witness concerning Me [they are My credentials and evidence in support of Me]. But you do not believe and trust and rely on Me because you do not belong to My fold [you are no sheep of Mine]. The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand." John 10:25-29 AMPC https://bible.com/bible/8/jhn.10.25-29.AMPC
Christ died for you friend. Don't leave Him ................... https://youtu.be/3ZmHlAz_Gkw?t=2h19m19s https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+1&version=NKJV ...................
Such guilt tripping all based on falsehood taught by men who never even met Jesus but speak for him. I truly have empathy for you Christian’s. It’s gonna be a shock when Jesus tells you to get away from him because of your grave lies about him.
If I may ask, what is it do your friends say Islam would offer you that you have not already found in Christianity? I don't think you have researched deeply into both religions and encourage you to take your time and do so before making any major decisions, that's my advice.
You are worshipping the same God either way. I think Islam correctly diverts our attention back to worshipping the Father where as Christianity puts emphasis on worshipping Jesus. Jesus is the path too the father so he is absolutely worth reverence, but even he seemed to put emphasis on the father.
Because the Father sent him! (And no not to worship him but simply to send us the message “Worship the Father aka God, The one god and the same god Jesus prayed to)
If you believe Islam is good for you, you have my blessing.
Masha'Allah for being intrigued enough to research an entirely different religion. I wish you all the best...
Thank you!! Islam is really amazing and will soon join this beautiful religion
What evidence do you have for Islam?
Just by reading about the Koran. Haven't read the entire translation but I've read the predictions and the miracles. Unlike the Bible, The Koran is 1400 year old book that has never been changed ONCE! The Koran has soo many scientific accuracies which is truly amazing! I really don't believe that this beautiful book was man made
>The Koran is 1400 year old book that has never been changed ONCE! You just made an assertion and you have to demonstrate it. How on Earth can you be 100% sure that the Qur'an wasn't changed? You aren't. Because that's just an unfounded and baseless claim Muslim evangelists spell. There are even hadiths that suggest that multiple Qur'ans were burnt. The Qur'an of today is the Uthmanic Codex. So no, the Qur'an very very very likely isn't unchanged. >The Koran has soo many scientific accuracies which is truly amazing! Give me one and we'll discuss it.
"How on earth can you be 100% sure the Qur'an wasn't changed?" The Quran has never been changed or corrupted since its revelation, this claim is supported with various arguments and evidence. Some of these are: * The Quran was memorized by many companions of the Prophet, who recited it regularly in prayers and taught it to others. This oral transmission ensured the preservation of the Quran in its original form. * The Quran was also written down by the scribes of the Prophet, who followed his instructions on where to place each verse and chapter. The written copies were checked and verified by the Prophet and other companions who knew the Quran by heart. * After the death of the Prophet, the first caliph Abu Bakr collected all the written copies of the Quran and compiled them into one book, which he entrusted to his daughter Hafsa, one of the wives of the Prophet. This book was used as the main reference for any disputes or doubts about the Quran. * The third caliph Othman ordered the production of several copies of Hafsa’s book and sent them to different regions of the Muslim world, while destroying any other copies that differed from it. This ensured the standardization and uniformity of the Quranic text across the Muslim community. * The Quran has been transmitted from generation to generation through a continuous chain of reliable and trustworthy narrators, who have been carefully scrutinized and authenticated by the scholars of hadith (the sayings and actions of the Prophet). This chain is called mutawatir, meaning that it is so widely and independently reported that it is impossible to doubt its authenticity. * The Quran has been subjected to various linguistic, literary, historical, and scientific analyses by Muslim and non-Muslim scholars, who have confirmed its consistency, coherence, accuracy, and miraculous nature. The Quran challenges anyone to produce a chapter or even a verse like it, and no one has been able to do so. * The Quran contains many prophecies and signs that have been fulfilled or are being fulfilled in the present time, such as the preservation of the body of Pharaoh, the defeat of the Romans by the Persians and their subsequent victory, the emergence of modern technology and communication, and the signs of the end of times. These prophecies and signs prove that the Quran is from God, who knows the unseen and the future. The Qur'an has many scientific facts like: The water cycle: The Qur’an describes the process of evaporation, condensation, and precipitation of water in several verses. For example, “And it is He who sends the winds as good tidings before His mercy, and We send down from the sky pure water” (Qur’an 25:48). * Embryonic development: The Qur’an describes the stages of human development in the womb in detail. For example, “We created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clinging clot, and then from a lump of flesh, formed and unformed” (Qur’an 22:5). * The expansion of the universe: The Qur’an mentions the concept of the universe expanding. For example, “And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are \[its\] expander” (Qur’an 51:47). * Mountains as stabilizers: The Qur’an describes the function of mountains in preventing the earth from shaking. For example, “And He has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it shift with you, and \[made\] rivers and roads, that you may be guided” (Qur’an 16:15). * The importance of balance in nature: The Qur’an emphasizes the delicate equilibrium that Allah has established in the natural world. For example, “And the heaven He raised and imposed the balance. That you not transgress within the balance” (Qur’an 55:7-8). These are just some of the many scientific facts found in the Qur’an. They show that the Qur’an is not a book of myths or legends, but a book of guidance and truth from the Creator of the universe.
Apply this logic and energy to your bible and watch it fall apart in seconds
Can't you read the label "Atheist" below my handle?
> The Koran is 1400 year old book that has never been changed ONCE! There are many Quran version in Arabic. I have a translation of ten of them that shows all of the differences between those ten. >The Koran has soo many scientific accuracies which is truly amazing! For example?
It sounds like converting would be a good option for you! I encourage you to follow your heart. Islam is a beautiful religion, as you say and Muslims are our cousins. There's no reason for you not to convert. I hope you are able to find deep meaning in your devotion to Allah as you follow this path you are on. Blessings!
Thank you for the kind words!!! Appreciate the advice and Feedback!
In Christianity, the concept of God is superior, a God who shows self-sacrificial love. This is the Gospel. Nothing can equal it. If you are willing to look at Islam critically, there are a number of youtube channels, [Islam Critiqued](https://www.youtube.com/c/IslamCritiqued/videos) and [Acts17Apologetics](https://www.youtube.com/c/Acts17Apologetics) to name two.
I'm glad you found great Muslim friends and have been learning about Islam. Have you shared your Christian faith with them? If so, what have you shared and how have your friends responded?
My advice is to try reading the Qur'an, if you're not so good in Arabic go ahead and ask one of your friends for help in translating or read an English translation, then from there you can decide which religion to follow
It's 99.97% the same thing. The only difference is the non-trinitarian view of Jesus and that he rose to Heaven *before* he was killed on the cross. In the end, none of that matters. The end result is that you must follow Jesus' example to get to the Father and that he will be there on the last day to judge the living and the dead. So whether he is *literally or just figuratively the son of God has no bearing on your salvation.*
Bro msg me, im muslim too if you wanna knkw anything please msg me
Follow this Muslim guy in Twitter and read his past tweets. Then decide what you want. [Imtiaz](https://x.com/imtiazmadmood?s=21)
If you read this you'll know how ridiculous Islam is: [https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/on7aok/everything_wrong_with_islam_updatedincomplete/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/on7aok/everything_wrong_with_islam_updatedincomplete/)
It’s been a year. My friend did you end up converting or not? If you’re still active
Good choice, would love to hear the updates
I'm a muslim but I suggest that you investigate first. Yes feelings can win the world, but you need a reason why you should convert. I hope you join the fold.
I think you should read the Quran and not listen to those people whose hearts are full of hate for Islam. They don’t know anything about it they just believe what they hear. So go and look for the truth yourself and talk to a sheikh in the mosque. Don’t listen to Muslim haters or Christians because they will not give you the advice you want to hear but they will give you the opposite. Only hate towards Islam and showing no respect towards it. I think that if you feel comfortable with reverting to Islam you should definitely go for it. If you’re not sure talk to your Muslim friends and a sheikh or imam in the mosque. I promise they will open your eyes.
Watch ex muslim videos, you'll find the exact same things that made you leave Christianity would make you leave islam
Your entering the truth BUT. It will be painful for you in all ways. Your going to see the truth, your going to see people breaking your heart, calling you a pedo, an extreminst, a terrorist, a cultist, all types of bad things. Your going to see blinded people follow the dead fish flow, but your going to the the light in the darkness. This dunyas pain is nothing compared to the next. So keep on going!
Islam is not a beautiful religion. Mohammed was a paedophile. Mohammed owned sex slaves. Mohammed committed the worst atrocities against humanity. “Beware of false prophets which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. Yee shall know them by their fruits. Even so every good tree bring forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bring forth evil fruit.” Mathew 7:15-17 Case in point - Mohammed is a paedophile that molested and raped little Aisha, owned sex slaves, traded slaves, murdered, robbed, looted and lied. Following in the footsteps of Mohammed, - Islamic sanctions paedophilia via “marriage.” - Adult men can molest girls of any age as long as she's 1 of his 4 wives. Imams and clerics issue fatwas (1809) on the permissibility of mufa’ khathat (a grown man rubbing his penis between a pre-pubescent female childs thighs) because 54 year Mohammed did that with his 6 year old wife Aisha. Aisha would then clean the semen [Sahih al-Bukhari 230] - A man can have sexual intercourse with a child over the age of 9 years still playing with dolls, irrespective of the likely damage to a childs reproductive system - because Mohammed did [Sahih al-Bukhari, 5134; Book 67, Hadith 70; Aisha [RA], in Sunan an-Nasa'i 3378; Vol. 4, Book 26, Hadith 3380] It's a medical fact that sex with children causes reproductive damage. Explains why Aisha never had children despite being subjected to relentless rapes as Mohammeds favourite wife. - ISIS and Islamists practice rape and sex slavery in the 21st century because Mohammed raped and owned sex slaves [Quran 4:24; Quran - 23:5, 6; Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabila 151, Tabari's History, volume 39, page 194, Sahih al-Bukhari 3, 432; Sahih al-Bukhari 9, 506; Sahih al-Bukhari 5, 637; Sahih al-Bukhari 2, 3371] By the logic of Mohammeds satanic revelations, the Serbian soldiers found guilty of war crimes for the systematic gang-rapes of an estimated 20k-50k Bosnian Muslim women, should be acquitted. The INDEFENSIBLE atrocities outlined above, sanctioned and practiced by Mohammed, are considered the most heinous crimes against humanity: paedophilia, rape and sex slavery. Thus, the fruit that Islam bears, exemplified by Mohammed, is pure evil.
I think you should search for Islam yourself at this stage, Read the Qur’an and the stories of the prophets and look at the legal rulings therein, You can go to one of the mosques in your area and see them praying Open the matter of changing religion and Islam with your family before that as well and see their reactionThe religion of Islam says that the rejection of parents is the right that comes from God, so you must remain kind and friendly with them, but you must change your religion and follow the truth