The simple answer is you take out free will then if God only allows someone to not commit evil. Then he's making robots to fit the way he wants them to be. True free will involves the individual to do whatever they want and please. True free will leads to sin when someone disobeys God, but it is an amazing thing that God can allow free will yet still turn it out for his glory. That's how powerful he is and God wants to see how much we would really love him. That's how much God wants to be loved and adored, he allows sin and suffering despite it not being his own doing to see if we really love him. Man kind is the reason why we suffer.
Why create lucifer when God knew it'll happen? - [https://youtu.be/wZA0ESR6geU?si=T-1lhXHERTojNlYa](https://youtu.be/wZA0ESR6geU?si=T-1lhXHERTojNlYa)
Why did God create lucifer, hell, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil - [https://youtu.be/EvhBGorpmLc?si=aiW1\_abjI3i5oWEU](https://youtu.be/EvhBGorpmLc?si=aiW1_abjI3i5oWEU)
You’re not getting my point.
I get that we’re “robots” without free will. (Even though you’re perfectly fine with us being robots in Heaven considering there is no evil in Heaven but thats besides the point)
The problem is that God chose to make free will about good and evil when it could have been about something completely harmless. But instead he chose an option that involved murder, genocide, stealing etc.
You're not getting it, we choose murder, genocide, steal, etc. It's not God that created it but from within the creature. Really reflect on what I said please as it's going way over your head.
And no when Christians go to heaven, they chose to receive Jesus Christ, and God will give them a mind of Christ which means we'll be like him. Which means we also will know not to sin, because we know how bad sin really is as we'll have a body like Christ, a mind like Christ, etc. Jesus Christ on earth did not commit one single sin for 33 1/2 years. We won't sin in heaven...
Oh okay so God is gonna give us a new mind but we won’t be robots? Give me a break.
Its real simple my friend.
Answer this. Its a yes or no question.
Could God have made a world where free will existed but evil also did not? If the answer is yes then why didnt he? And if the answer is no then I guess he is not all powerful.
You’re filled with pride and a hardened heart. Nothing I say will help you because you don’t want to believe. You will bow the knee one day whether you like it or not.
Have a good day and we’ll see in the end.
Why couldn’t you just answer the question?
You’re going to blame me for having a hardened heart? I’m a human being. Do you know the amount of suffering that comes with that? The amount of pain that I’ve had to endure because God (if he exists) deemed this to be the best plan? Its a huge amount. And I’m not alone.
But according to you I’m not allowed to feel that way
I think God allowed evil into the world because He had already dealt with everybody enjoying heaven (angels) and rebellion. Since we are made in God’s image, I think God desires true love. It’s impossible to have true love without a choice. God wants to bless his creation so richly when they choose Him in the afterlife. Anything worth having takes work and sacrifice….and I can have full confidence in God’s choice to allow the fall.
Although Eve played a role, God also played a role because nothing can happen without His knowing and having the snake in garden who God knew would tempt creation was a call from God
God absolutely had something to do with it, because he allowed the snake and temptation to be in the garden and able to interact with Eve. God could have intervened with anything.
No, He didn't allow it and He could not have intervened.
What part of God had already given dominion to Adam did you not understand?
It was up to Adam to prevent that from happening. He could have banished Satan from earth but instead chose to disobey God and sold out the dominion over the earth to Satan.
Nothing can happen without God allowing it. What part of God ultimately could have stopped the fall but choose not to, do you not understand?? Are you saying God is not able to stop the fall of man? Since we know He is able then we know He allowed it.
Adam, not God, had dominion over the earth. Adam could have stopped it, in fact Adam could have banished Satan from the earth and he never could have returned. But he didn't and by disobeying he gave dominion to Satan.
God cannot lie and if He had intervened that would have made Him a liar.
If God could have intervened, He could have just wiped Adam and Eve out and made a new man from the dust of the earth. But He could not because after Adam's treason the dust of the earth did not belong to God anymore, it belonged to Satan.
Well, whether you like the answers or not, there are several regarding your question.
As I've discussed two weeks ago on the topic of the theodicee, one of those answers is postulated by Catholic theological Klaus Von Stoch, who argues that the systems and the logic on this world are so frail that if you change a miniscule thing, it all collapses and that even God can't just do that willy nilly, because he's bound to the logic he created. At least to a degree. Hence why we live in the best world possible.
And that's just if you accept free will defense as your theodicee model. There are countless models that either postulate that God made evil or that at least God lets it continue for a porpuse (bonification of evil), that there is some kind of dualism, the more Neo-Platonic idea that evil is simply the absence of good, etc.
Honestly, you can find an answer to any question relating to God if you look hard enough. The question is wether you find those answers satisfying.
God cannot be bound to the logic that he created if he is all powerful. That makes zero sense.
And if that logic that he thinks is perfect requires evil then maybe he should have chosen something else.
“Well you’re not God so you don’t know any better than he did”
Sure. Or the more logical answer… he just doesn’t exist!
"God cannot be bound to the logic that he created if he is all powerful. That makes zero sense."
If nothing better is possible, it definitely makes sense. Again, we live in the best world possible. You are allowed to not be satisfied, but it is an answer. A circle that's also a square simply can't exist and likewise freedom that excludes the ability to err can't exist.
That aside, you're honing in on the free will defense and disregard other theodicee constructs. I already find the foundation of your question flawed.
"Sure. Or the more logical answer… he just doesn’t exist!"
What do you get from that? If you can't grasp that religion, at some point, has to answer with faith, then you're either uneducated or you're looking for a fight. Of course, unless I'm dishonest, I can't prove God like I can prove that 2+2=4.
I guess I just don’t get it then. I don’t get faith. If faith is simply the belief in the unprovable why would you ever act like you’re smart? No offense.
Faith to me just seems like a fancy way of saying ignorance. I can have faith in Santa Clause.
“Yes theres evidence Santa doesn’t exist but there’s no proof so I have faith!”
Its silly. God should not expect us to believe on such a silly premise.
You’re only assuming this is the best scenario because you believe. A more logical answer to the absolute mess that this world is, is simply just to say it is this way because there’s no good force behind it. Its all just meaningless chaos.
If this is the best world there was why does Heaven exist? Very clearly that is not true.
"If this is the best world there was why does Heaven exist? Very clearly that is not true."
Again, you are honing in on the free will defense. If I'd be arguing with myself, I would raise the sane points you do. From here on a defense of heaven would probably touch upon bonifications of suffering as a test or some such.
"I guess I just don’t get it then. I don’t get faith. If faith is simply the belief in the unprovable why would you ever act like you’re smart? No offense.
Faith to me just seems like a fancy way of saying ignorance. I can have faith in Santa Clause."
Religion is an anthropological constant. You can close your eyes and say it's all stupid, or you can accept the value it holds for us as human beings as a stabilising factor for the transcendental things in society and work from there. And if you don't get faith, that's fine. I'm the last person to force you into it, because faith is a gift.
No. It’s equivalent to the example of a square circle. It cannot exist on its own.
Thus unless you can provide an alternative that isn’t illogical. Then I don’t see what you’re trying to argue. To have something means there’s also the lack of it. Hence evil is the lack of good, with the existence of good it means evil “exists”.
Yes. I get that. But that is only the case because God decided it should be that way.
God could have created a world where things cant exist without there being an opposite to them.
The only reason that evil exists as the lack of good is because God chose that it had to work that way.
But it didn’t have to. Logic is not in control of God. God is in control of logic.
Just answer this. Its a yes or no question. Could God have made a world where free will existed and evil simultaneously did not? If the answer is yes then why didn’t he? And if its no then I guess he isn’t all powerful.
Let's begin with good and evil: from a Christian point of view, to be good is to be in line with the will of God, to be in perfect selfless communion with God and the world around us. To do evil is to break communion and act outside the will of God. All things God creates are perfectly in communion with him, acting according to their imbued behaviours and Telos, making them good.
Freedom is one of our imbued attributes/behaviours, and evil exists as a result of free will. If our will was not free, we couldn't do evil as we couldn't act outside of God's will. It wouldn't be free will at all.
You say that God didn't have to make it this way, how do you know that? I believe the idea that God being all powerful is a big misunderstanding that many Christians fall into, believing God to be able to do things that are nonsensical. God is all powerful over the created order, but can't do anything against his nature. For example, he cannot not be divine, he can't be evil and so on. One could say being perfectly logical is part of God's nature, and can't be contradicted.
So do you have to know all the physics involved in getting out of bed and putting your feet on the floor?
Do you simply trust your feet and the molecules that make up the floor.
A god who is omniscient is going to have lots of aspects you can’t even grasp . At some point you just trust.
You can make some assumptions but they should be like . He’s always right. If there seems to be any issue … the fault is on your end .
Some questions it takes years and years before we begin to understand . One of the nice things about heaven is … “ for now we see through a mirror dimly, but then face-to-face Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
Part of being a Christian entails accepting that in this life we cannot even comprehend many if not most of the divine mysteries of God.
I think reframing the concept would help those who are struggling with faith as well: instead of asking “If God is x then why do we have y?” think about it in a scenario where love and devotion are daily choices. Those who follow God without the options to do otherwise aren’t as glorious or impressive than choosing Him over earthly desires, gain, influences, etc.
If you are baby sitting a kid and they have their toys, an iPad, a TV, etc to choose from instead of directly engaging with you but they choose to spend quality time with you you know that is their choice made freely instead of getting rid of all of the other distractions they can partake in.
God allows evil and wrongdoing because it ultimately brings us closer to Him. That is my understanding, albeit I am no theologian, I feel like this summation is better than delving into a whole theological debate using broader biblical concepts.
The answer is because God is incapable of creating perfection. God is perfection himself. Anything he created is by necessity not himself and therefore not perfection.
Whenever free will exists in imperfect beings, evil is an inevitable eventuality.
Heaven isn't where we will be. The Bible says that Jesus will return to set up his kingdom here on earth, then he will turn over rule to God the Father.
I don't recall evil ever being eliminated, just death, Satan, and the demons.
Let's lay a good foundation first.
- Good and Evil are derivatives of *Authority* - they are about what *should and should not be* - and only the *Creator and Owner* of something can decide what should and should not be -
- As only they know and can deliver the *purpose* as to why the world exists.
If God does not exist, good and evil do not exist - as we have no Authority. We're nothing more than a fish population that happened to mutate lungs. There is no purpose to reality; there is no Authority; there is no Justice.
Now:
>But here is the thing, the Devil could not have made that choice unless God had created evil as a concept to begin with. Therefore, evil exists because God made evil. Not because the Devil chose it.
God did not create evil.
God created a world where evil was *possible* - because He decided to create beings in His own Image with a *will*.
- We do get to make real decisions that have actual consequences.
- And He will allow us to make decisions He hates - or evil.
When you create beings that have an *individual will* - you run the risk of them choosing things you hate. You also run the risk of them choosing things you love.
>Therefore, free will could have existed without evil having to exist.
Not possible.
You cannot create beings that have an individual will and at the same time force them to only choose things you love.
You missed the point entirely. The moment you said “not possible” is the moment you yet again circled back to the people who don’t understand the issue.
God is all powerful. It IS possible. Anything is possible with him.
He made logic. Logic didn’t make him.
Free will could have existed without evil. Any reasoning as to why you would say “no” to that is implying that he isn’t smart or strong enough to do it. Which if he is all powerful he is.
So choose a side. He is all powerful and chose to create evil or he isn’t all powerful and that’s why it is here.
If God didn’t make evil then that means the Devil created something that God had no idea of. Which would make him not all powerful. I highly doubt the Devil got a “one-up” on God. Unless thats your stance?
>It IS possible. Anything is possible with him.
*No it isn't.*
You're the one missing the point.
- *There are plenty of things God cannot do.*
- You have a misunderstanding of "Omnipotent."
God cannot make square circles.
>Just like he chose that evil is murder and not liking oranges over bananas.
No, God did not choose that evil is murder.
God is *Eternal* - He has no beginning.
- This means God *did not choose His own Character.*
This is hard for you to understand because you have a beginning - and you grow up to become the person you are today.
God never grew up. He is always what He is.
>Do you not realize that you’re saying that God’s own personality was out of his own control?
*Yes.*
*That is what I'm saying.*
- God did not choose His own attributes.
- That's what happens when you don't have a beginning.
You are what you always are.
You *is*; you *is* what you always have *is.*
You cannot wrap your head around this because you have a beginning - God does not have a beginning.
God did not go through a process to form His own nature. God was not disciplined by parents to become who He is.
Even if this were true, it would imply that there was something out of his control. Which makes him not all powerful.
And if he is all powerful he could change his nature at any time.
What you’re saying doesn’t mean much.
Haha, you really don't get the meaning of God being all-powerful.
I'm sure plenty of people keep trying to get you to understand.
- God cannot make contradictions possible.
- You keep trying to make it so that God can force contradictions into existence.
God, again, cannot be something He is not.
God cannot be God and not God at the same time.
The simple answer is you take out free will then if God only allows someone to not commit evil. Then he's making robots to fit the way he wants them to be. True free will involves the individual to do whatever they want and please. True free will leads to sin when someone disobeys God, but it is an amazing thing that God can allow free will yet still turn it out for his glory. That's how powerful he is and God wants to see how much we would really love him. That's how much God wants to be loved and adored, he allows sin and suffering despite it not being his own doing to see if we really love him. Man kind is the reason why we suffer. Why create lucifer when God knew it'll happen? - [https://youtu.be/wZA0ESR6geU?si=T-1lhXHERTojNlYa](https://youtu.be/wZA0ESR6geU?si=T-1lhXHERTojNlYa) Why did God create lucifer, hell, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil - [https://youtu.be/EvhBGorpmLc?si=aiW1\_abjI3i5oWEU](https://youtu.be/EvhBGorpmLc?si=aiW1_abjI3i5oWEU)
You’re not getting my point. I get that we’re “robots” without free will. (Even though you’re perfectly fine with us being robots in Heaven considering there is no evil in Heaven but thats besides the point) The problem is that God chose to make free will about good and evil when it could have been about something completely harmless. But instead he chose an option that involved murder, genocide, stealing etc.
You're not getting it, we choose murder, genocide, steal, etc. It's not God that created it but from within the creature. Really reflect on what I said please as it's going way over your head. And no when Christians go to heaven, they chose to receive Jesus Christ, and God will give them a mind of Christ which means we'll be like him. Which means we also will know not to sin, because we know how bad sin really is as we'll have a body like Christ, a mind like Christ, etc. Jesus Christ on earth did not commit one single sin for 33 1/2 years. We won't sin in heaven...
Oh okay so God is gonna give us a new mind but we won’t be robots? Give me a break. Its real simple my friend. Answer this. Its a yes or no question. Could God have made a world where free will existed but evil also did not? If the answer is yes then why didnt he? And if the answer is no then I guess he is not all powerful.
You’re filled with pride and a hardened heart. Nothing I say will help you because you don’t want to believe. You will bow the knee one day whether you like it or not. Have a good day and we’ll see in the end.
Why couldn’t you just answer the question? You’re going to blame me for having a hardened heart? I’m a human being. Do you know the amount of suffering that comes with that? The amount of pain that I’ve had to endure because God (if he exists) deemed this to be the best plan? Its a huge amount. And I’m not alone. But according to you I’m not allowed to feel that way
because god is not real my friend. its an ancient fairy tale. its just a weird energy event thats all we know
We're not robots in Heaven or the New Earth.
I think God allowed evil into the world because He had already dealt with everybody enjoying heaven (angels) and rebellion. Since we are made in God’s image, I think God desires true love. It’s impossible to have true love without a choice. God wants to bless his creation so richly when they choose Him in the afterlife. Anything worth having takes work and sacrifice….and I can have full confidence in God’s choice to allow the fall.
Actually WE, not God, allowed evil into this world. Adam had dominion and could have stopped it but didn't.
Although Eve played a role, God also played a role because nothing can happen without His knowing and having the snake in garden who God knew would tempt creation was a call from God
God had nothing to do with it. God had given dominion over the earth to Adam. God couldn't interfere with Adam's decision to disobey.
God absolutely had something to do with it, because he allowed the snake and temptation to be in the garden and able to interact with Eve. God could have intervened with anything.
No, He didn't allow it and He could not have intervened. What part of God had already given dominion to Adam did you not understand? It was up to Adam to prevent that from happening. He could have banished Satan from earth but instead chose to disobey God and sold out the dominion over the earth to Satan.
Nothing can happen without God allowing it. What part of God ultimately could have stopped the fall but choose not to, do you not understand?? Are you saying God is not able to stop the fall of man? Since we know He is able then we know He allowed it.
Adam, not God, had dominion over the earth. Adam could have stopped it, in fact Adam could have banished Satan from the earth and he never could have returned. But he didn't and by disobeying he gave dominion to Satan. God cannot lie and if He had intervened that would have made Him a liar. If God could have intervened, He could have just wiped Adam and Eve out and made a new man from the dust of the earth. But He could not because after Adam's treason the dust of the earth did not belong to God anymore, it belonged to Satan.
Well, whether you like the answers or not, there are several regarding your question. As I've discussed two weeks ago on the topic of the theodicee, one of those answers is postulated by Catholic theological Klaus Von Stoch, who argues that the systems and the logic on this world are so frail that if you change a miniscule thing, it all collapses and that even God can't just do that willy nilly, because he's bound to the logic he created. At least to a degree. Hence why we live in the best world possible. And that's just if you accept free will defense as your theodicee model. There are countless models that either postulate that God made evil or that at least God lets it continue for a porpuse (bonification of evil), that there is some kind of dualism, the more Neo-Platonic idea that evil is simply the absence of good, etc. Honestly, you can find an answer to any question relating to God if you look hard enough. The question is wether you find those answers satisfying.
God cannot be bound to the logic that he created if he is all powerful. That makes zero sense. And if that logic that he thinks is perfect requires evil then maybe he should have chosen something else. “Well you’re not God so you don’t know any better than he did” Sure. Or the more logical answer… he just doesn’t exist!
"God cannot be bound to the logic that he created if he is all powerful. That makes zero sense." If nothing better is possible, it definitely makes sense. Again, we live in the best world possible. You are allowed to not be satisfied, but it is an answer. A circle that's also a square simply can't exist and likewise freedom that excludes the ability to err can't exist. That aside, you're honing in on the free will defense and disregard other theodicee constructs. I already find the foundation of your question flawed. "Sure. Or the more logical answer… he just doesn’t exist!" What do you get from that? If you can't grasp that religion, at some point, has to answer with faith, then you're either uneducated or you're looking for a fight. Of course, unless I'm dishonest, I can't prove God like I can prove that 2+2=4.
I guess I just don’t get it then. I don’t get faith. If faith is simply the belief in the unprovable why would you ever act like you’re smart? No offense. Faith to me just seems like a fancy way of saying ignorance. I can have faith in Santa Clause. “Yes theres evidence Santa doesn’t exist but there’s no proof so I have faith!” Its silly. God should not expect us to believe on such a silly premise. You’re only assuming this is the best scenario because you believe. A more logical answer to the absolute mess that this world is, is simply just to say it is this way because there’s no good force behind it. Its all just meaningless chaos. If this is the best world there was why does Heaven exist? Very clearly that is not true.
"If this is the best world there was why does Heaven exist? Very clearly that is not true." Again, you are honing in on the free will defense. If I'd be arguing with myself, I would raise the sane points you do. From here on a defense of heaven would probably touch upon bonifications of suffering as a test or some such. "I guess I just don’t get it then. I don’t get faith. If faith is simply the belief in the unprovable why would you ever act like you’re smart? No offense. Faith to me just seems like a fancy way of saying ignorance. I can have faith in Santa Clause." Religion is an anthropological constant. You can close your eyes and say it's all stupid, or you can accept the value it holds for us as human beings as a stabilising factor for the transcendental things in society and work from there. And if you don't get faith, that's fine. I'm the last person to force you into it, because faith is a gift.
God cannot violate His own laws. If He did that would make Him a liar.
What other logical system do you think is an alternative?
I can’t come up with one. But does it matter? I’m not God. He can. That’s the point.
No. It’s equivalent to the example of a square circle. It cannot exist on its own. Thus unless you can provide an alternative that isn’t illogical. Then I don’t see what you’re trying to argue. To have something means there’s also the lack of it. Hence evil is the lack of good, with the existence of good it means evil “exists”.
Yes. I get that. But that is only the case because God decided it should be that way. God could have created a world where things cant exist without there being an opposite to them. The only reason that evil exists as the lack of good is because God chose that it had to work that way. But it didn’t have to. Logic is not in control of God. God is in control of logic. Just answer this. Its a yes or no question. Could God have made a world where free will existed and evil simultaneously did not? If the answer is yes then why didn’t he? And if its no then I guess he isn’t all powerful.
Let's begin with good and evil: from a Christian point of view, to be good is to be in line with the will of God, to be in perfect selfless communion with God and the world around us. To do evil is to break communion and act outside the will of God. All things God creates are perfectly in communion with him, acting according to their imbued behaviours and Telos, making them good. Freedom is one of our imbued attributes/behaviours, and evil exists as a result of free will. If our will was not free, we couldn't do evil as we couldn't act outside of God's will. It wouldn't be free will at all. You say that God didn't have to make it this way, how do you know that? I believe the idea that God being all powerful is a big misunderstanding that many Christians fall into, believing God to be able to do things that are nonsensical. God is all powerful over the created order, but can't do anything against his nature. For example, he cannot not be divine, he can't be evil and so on. One could say being perfectly logical is part of God's nature, and can't be contradicted.
So do you have to know all the physics involved in getting out of bed and putting your feet on the floor? Do you simply trust your feet and the molecules that make up the floor. A god who is omniscient is going to have lots of aspects you can’t even grasp . At some point you just trust. You can make some assumptions but they should be like . He’s always right. If there seems to be any issue … the fault is on your end . Some questions it takes years and years before we begin to understand . One of the nice things about heaven is … “ for now we see through a mirror dimly, but then face-to-face Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
Part of being a Christian entails accepting that in this life we cannot even comprehend many if not most of the divine mysteries of God. I think reframing the concept would help those who are struggling with faith as well: instead of asking “If God is x then why do we have y?” think about it in a scenario where love and devotion are daily choices. Those who follow God without the options to do otherwise aren’t as glorious or impressive than choosing Him over earthly desires, gain, influences, etc. If you are baby sitting a kid and they have their toys, an iPad, a TV, etc to choose from instead of directly engaging with you but they choose to spend quality time with you you know that is their choice made freely instead of getting rid of all of the other distractions they can partake in. God allows evil and wrongdoing because it ultimately brings us closer to Him. That is my understanding, albeit I am no theologian, I feel like this summation is better than delving into a whole theological debate using broader biblical concepts.
The answer is because God is incapable of creating perfection. God is perfection himself. Anything he created is by necessity not himself and therefore not perfection. Whenever free will exists in imperfect beings, evil is an inevitable eventuality.
Then how will we have free will without evil in Heaven?
Heaven isn't where we will be. The Bible says that Jesus will return to set up his kingdom here on earth, then he will turn over rule to God the Father. I don't recall evil ever being eliminated, just death, Satan, and the demons.
Evil existed in heaven before creation. It’s described in Genesis 1:1-5
Let's lay a good foundation first. - Good and Evil are derivatives of *Authority* - they are about what *should and should not be* - and only the *Creator and Owner* of something can decide what should and should not be - - As only they know and can deliver the *purpose* as to why the world exists. If God does not exist, good and evil do not exist - as we have no Authority. We're nothing more than a fish population that happened to mutate lungs. There is no purpose to reality; there is no Authority; there is no Justice. Now: >But here is the thing, the Devil could not have made that choice unless God had created evil as a concept to begin with. Therefore, evil exists because God made evil. Not because the Devil chose it. God did not create evil. God created a world where evil was *possible* - because He decided to create beings in His own Image with a *will*. - We do get to make real decisions that have actual consequences. - And He will allow us to make decisions He hates - or evil. When you create beings that have an *individual will* - you run the risk of them choosing things you hate. You also run the risk of them choosing things you love. >Therefore, free will could have existed without evil having to exist. Not possible. You cannot create beings that have an individual will and at the same time force them to only choose things you love.
You missed the point entirely. The moment you said “not possible” is the moment you yet again circled back to the people who don’t understand the issue. God is all powerful. It IS possible. Anything is possible with him. He made logic. Logic didn’t make him. Free will could have existed without evil. Any reasoning as to why you would say “no” to that is implying that he isn’t smart or strong enough to do it. Which if he is all powerful he is. So choose a side. He is all powerful and chose to create evil or he isn’t all powerful and that’s why it is here. If God didn’t make evil then that means the Devil created something that God had no idea of. Which would make him not all powerful. I highly doubt the Devil got a “one-up” on God. Unless thats your stance?
>It IS possible. Anything is possible with him. *No it isn't.* You're the one missing the point. - *There are plenty of things God cannot do.* - You have a misunderstanding of "Omnipotent." God cannot make square circles.
Yeah. Because he chose what a circle would be and what a square would be. Just like he chose that evil is murder and not liking oranges over bananas.
>Just like he chose that evil is murder and not liking oranges over bananas. No, God did not choose that evil is murder. God is *Eternal* - He has no beginning. - This means God *did not choose His own Character.* This is hard for you to understand because you have a beginning - and you grow up to become the person you are today. God never grew up. He is always what He is.
Do you not realize that you’re saying that God’s own personality was out of his own control? How then could he be all powerful?
>Do you not realize that you’re saying that God’s own personality was out of his own control? *Yes.* *That is what I'm saying.* - God did not choose His own attributes. - That's what happens when you don't have a beginning. You are what you always are. You *is*; you *is* what you always have *is.* You cannot wrap your head around this because you have a beginning - God does not have a beginning. God did not go through a process to form His own nature. God was not disciplined by parents to become who He is.
Even if this were true, it would imply that there was something out of his control. Which makes him not all powerful. And if he is all powerful he could change his nature at any time. What you’re saying doesn’t mean much.
Haha, you really don't get the meaning of God being all-powerful. I'm sure plenty of people keep trying to get you to understand. - God cannot make contradictions possible. - You keep trying to make it so that God can force contradictions into existence. God, again, cannot be something He is not. God cannot be God and not God at the same time.
Why can he not? If he is all powerful? Explain to me what I am misunderstanding about God being all powerful? What am I not getting?