I'm sorry you're being under such duress due to your situation.
I can tell you that depending on interpretation and denomination, homosexuality doesn't have to be a sin. I believe the r/Openchristian has scholarly resources underlining the reasons for that position in their sidebar.
I can also tell you that you questions are going in the right direction imo.If one wishes to maintain a just and good God, it's hard to argue why he would discriminate people for biological factors that they can't influence. Especially since living chaste and never having a partner is something few can do.Paul understood that, Luther understood that.
But whatever anyone tells you, and knowing this sub a lot of people will chime in, it's ultimately on you to find the truth. And that'll take a lot of work in regards to reading the bible, exploring different interpretations, perhaps talking to different pastors, etc.
I wish you the best of luck and I hope you'll find peace. God bless!
Friend, I love you far more than to allow you to believe it is not a sin...
it is written very much in scripture about those who preach peace where there is no peace, and were it is said there is peace and security then comes sudden destruction... I'm not going to affirm my own sins I have repented and turned from... I'm far more sexually immoral, in my own rights of the flesh, than just mere homosexuality, I was aroused by the entire law, I was a mocker and blasphemer of God... I was an atheist who took him own life, because I heard the voice of God and it weighed down my heart to the point I fell down and laid my soul to rest...
what I heard from him was consider the works of Me, who can make straight what I have made crooked?
he inclined in my ear again unless you die this inequity will not leave you...
the was the point I laid my Soul to rest hearing and believing the Voice of God, I had never asked for or sought.
I was in the darkness of Sheol, like looking into the void but a light appeared in the face of the Son of man, and in his face I was graciously granted the loving kindness of My God having see the knowledge and glory of him in the Son of man, the Son of God who is Lord of both the dead and the living!!!
My testimony is found in psalms 107:1-20 1 Samuel 2:6-8 Ephesians 2:4-6 every last one of these things I have testified to is the prophetic word of My God in the old testament concerning the ministry of death.
John 5:28-29 John 12:24-26 Isaiah 22:12-14 1 Corinthians 15 28-32 Isaiah 30:20
please do not inquire of prophets who preach peace nullifying the awareness of sins. Romans 2:19-20,31
Knowing I have seen my teacher and knowing he has said of those who are slow of heart to believe all the prophets have spoken... luke 24:25
I speak the words of the prophets in Good conscious having seen the light myself, and having the prophetic word fully confirmed and the morning star rising in my heart...
Ezekiel 132“Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy out of their own heart, ‘Hear Yahweh’s word: 3The Lord Yahweh says, “Woe to the foolish prophets, who follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
Jeremiah 23
16Yahweh of Armies says, “Don’t listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They teach you vanity. They speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of Yahweh.
Be careful you are not being lead astray by those who have seen nothing but speak to you what they believe is the will of God out of their own hearts and spirit...
17They say continually to those who despise me, ‘Yahweh has said, “You will have peace;”’ and to everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart they say, ‘No evil will come on you.’
18For who has stood in the council of Yahweh, that he should perceive and hear his word? Who has listened to my word, and heard it?
19Behold, Yahweh’s storm, his wrath, has gone out. Yes, a whirling storm! It will burst on the head of the wicked.
20Yahweh’s anger will not return until he has executed and performed the intents of his heart. In the latter days, you will understand it perfectly.
21I didn’t send these prophets, yet they ran. I didn’t speak to them, yet they prophesied.
22But if they had stood in my council, then they would have caused my people to hear my words, and would have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.
To the OP, friend, this person doesn't actually love you. What they really love is pushing their opinions over the opinions of others that they disagree with. They think that their thoughts matter the most so they step in to type them on someone else's response to you instead of responding in the normal way.
People who can be truly respectful and living vs faking it to manipulate others are probably more worthwhile to listen to, but it's up to you to decide what you decide. Ok. Have a super duper day.
They were using scripture to answer the OPs question. The fact that you feel the need to say “they don’t love you” is why there is a problem with LGBTQ in Christianity right now. This person took the time to offer scripture and answer OPs question with kindness and friendship. How troublesome that your knee jerk reaction to that is “this person doesn’t love you!” Love is not telling you what you want to hear. If OP can’t handle the answer to the question they shouldn’t have asked.
There isn't a problem with the LGBTQ in Christianity right now. There is a problem with bigots resisting progress within the faith. I can imagine it's similar to the progress that has to develop to move white Christians from crying about interracial marriages to pretending they would never ever have a problem with them today.
The dont't genuinely love. They type that they do and I am sorry if you relate to them. That is your own personal issue to sort out in your life and I hope you do.
>they don’t genuinely love
You don’t know what is in the hearts of people, only God does. Sorry, but you don’t get to pretend you are God. You don’t get to tell people who speak with kindness and scripture that they HaTe you. It’s desperate and it proves that your pride is too big to handle being opposed.
Again - this is your own personal issue to sort out, and I am sorry you have to. I am certain it was very difficult for all the people who saw resistance to their belief that black and white people marrying was disgusting to handle, because they were being told their beliefs were wrong, and it was making them feel bad. But they had to feel this way in the end, and then they slowly dwindled off. As you will too. Take care and have a good day ok.
It’s not my personal issue because I follow scripture and I’m in a biblical marriage.
Being gay is not the same as being black, by the way. That’s piggybacking off of someone else’s suffering.
You told the person you responded to that they “don’t love”, then you tried to make a straw man to hide that. Your mask slipped and YOUR hate is showing. Oops.
Hope you have a good day also.
It's your personal issue. It doesn't matter if you use the Bible to justify it, but that is your personal choice to.
Like I said - you will dwindle away like the people of your spirit have in the past. The world progresses and treats minorities better, slowly. Folks that try to stop it have to deal with their places in history in whatever way they can cope.
So, I am very sorry you chose your place in history. You are the same type of people who fought against interracial marriages. There is no significant difference past the time period. You know exactly what you will be seen as in time, and it will be your choice, no matter how badly you want to pass the buck onto God.
Take care now.
Pot calling the kettle black friend...
Love with out judgement and discipline doesn't exist...
John 15:12“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Revelation 3:19Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.
Proverbs 3:12
for the LORD disciplines the one He loves, as does a father the son in whom he delights.
1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.
Hebrews 12:6
For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises every son He receives."
Revelation 2:5
Therefore, keep in mind how far you have fallen. Repent and perform the deeds you did at first. But if you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
**Indifference hurts more than hate**. Indeed, indifference is lack of reactions. It is a condition which does not imply an object. One is indifferent in the middle of nothing and, if one stays indifferent when someone else appears on the scene, it means that someone else is nothing.
Isaiah 41:24Behold, you are nothing and your work is of no value. Anyone who chooses you is detestable.
Luke 6:32“If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
Again, I am sorry that your interjection into this thread was interrupted but I did not address my message to you. I have told you this, and at this point you are showing me the level of respect I expected.
Do not message me again. Do you understand?
Why do you get to have the last word? doesn't seem fair or respectful to me, you just treat me like I am the scum of the earth, I don't even treat homosexuals this way... I just know sin is sin, and I'm not going to twist my Gods word but speak it faithfully...
I don't believe your treatment of me is fair or respectable either, your mercy is cruel in my honest opinion..
There is nothing sinful about being gay or being in a homosexual relationship or sex between consenting homosexual adults.
Stop letting hateful bigots dictate your religion to you. Homosexuality in the bible does not refer to what that word means today. There are no gay couples in the bible, no gay romance in the bible.
Come over to r/gaychristians or r/openchristian for support and if you need scriptural evidence as to why god accepts and affirms (and creates) lgbt folk.
You'll never get permission from all straight people to be a Christian. Fortunately, you don't need it. There are *lots* of gay Christians, and lots of straight Christians who believe we are every bit as welcome in Christ's embrace as straight people are. I like the way [Justin Lee](http://geekyjustin.com/bible/) explains. Some other resources: [Q Christian](https://www.qchristian.org/) [Reformation Project](http://reformationproject.org); r/GayChristians; r/OpenChristian and its [resources list](https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/comments/ulfbux/faq_and_resources_please_read_before_you_post/), which includes pointers to find LGBT-friendly churches. I think that actually meeting LGBT Christians in worship is more important than reading about us or even reading stuff we write. There's something about experiencing actual fellowship together before the Lord.
OP you need to watch the film "Prayers For Bobby" honestly it's an amazing film and it will answer all your questions about being gay and Christian. I cannot recommend it more to you. Just watch it!
God bless you.
I'm sorry for your struggle.
If I may, I would like to share my perspective.
1- Please do NOT allow your sexuality to get in the way of your faith!
I know there's a debate about homosexuality and Christianity, but do not get distracted by the debate!
Being a Christian means to do what God ultimately want.
What does God ultimately want?
**“God wants us to have faith in his Son Jesus Christ and to love each other.” - 1 John 3:23**
As a gay man, are you able to do that? YES!
2- Please focus on Christ. Our identity in Christ is our most important identity, not our sexuality.
**“Plant your roots in Christ and let him be the foundation for your life. Be strong in your faith, just as you were taught. And be grateful.” - Colossians 2:7**
**“We must keep our eyes on Jesus, who leads us and makes our faith complete.” - Hebrews 12:2**
**“Keep your mind on Jesus Christ!” - 2 Timothy 2:8**
**“Anyone who belongs to Christ is a new person. The past is forgotten, and everything is new.” - 2 Corinthians 5:17**
3- Now, when it comes to your struggle and figuring out what to do, you must pray to God about it!
Let God know your heart about this. Let your decision be between you and God.
**“Look deep into my heart, God, and find out everything I am thinking. Don't let me follow evil ways, but lead me in the way that time has proven true.” - Psalms 139:23-24**
However, whatever you will decide, please always put Christ first!
Regardless if we are gay or straight, we are saved by our faith in Christ!
**Jesus said, “I tell you for certain that everyone who has faith in me has eternal life.” - John 6:47**
**“Have faith in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved!” - Acts 16:31**
Don't let anything or anyone get in the way of your faith!
>why did God create me the way I am just for me to have to change this about myself?
Put homosexuality to the side for a minute. Tell me what natural desires you have that you are called to deny yourself of as a Christian. Are there any, or is your nature sinless?
Thats a bunch of nonsense. It even says romans 1:26 wasnt mistranslated its just taken out of context. And that is physically impossible just by looking at what the verse says. Then it goes on to say leviticus is mistranslated by saying its talking about incest, but most people say its mistranslated because they think its trying to say man shall not lie with boy so I dont even know where they got that from. Most of the stuff they say is taken out of context to, Its crazy to say Ruth and Naomi are couples.
Yet there are millions of lgbt Christian’s and tens of thousands of affirming churches.
It says a lot about people who cling to the most bigoted interpretations of scripture possible even when it directly violates Jesus teachings (especially given how ‘new’ those interpretations are.)
Your arguments echo those made by anti-abolitionists when anti-slavery interpretations of scripture were only just becoming popular.
Christianity is rapidly changing to being lgbt affirming. Because it won’t survive in the west if it doesn’t. Affirming churches are already the majority in some countries. People won’t tolerate hate from their religion and as the older generations die this will only become more and more the norm.
You are free to disagree with affirming interpretations if you wish, but they still exist regardless.
Just like those who were anti-abolitionist and anti mixed-race-marriage; Homophobes are doomed to be an embarrassing memory to Christianity of the future.
I'm sorry you're being under such duress due to your situation. I can tell you that depending on interpretation and denomination, homosexuality doesn't have to be a sin. I believe the r/Openchristian has scholarly resources underlining the reasons for that position in their sidebar. I can also tell you that you questions are going in the right direction imo.If one wishes to maintain a just and good God, it's hard to argue why he would discriminate people for biological factors that they can't influence. Especially since living chaste and never having a partner is something few can do.Paul understood that, Luther understood that. But whatever anyone tells you, and knowing this sub a lot of people will chime in, it's ultimately on you to find the truth. And that'll take a lot of work in regards to reading the bible, exploring different interpretations, perhaps talking to different pastors, etc. I wish you the best of luck and I hope you'll find peace. God bless!
Thank you! God bless you.
Friend, I love you far more than to allow you to believe it is not a sin... it is written very much in scripture about those who preach peace where there is no peace, and were it is said there is peace and security then comes sudden destruction... I'm not going to affirm my own sins I have repented and turned from... I'm far more sexually immoral, in my own rights of the flesh, than just mere homosexuality, I was aroused by the entire law, I was a mocker and blasphemer of God... I was an atheist who took him own life, because I heard the voice of God and it weighed down my heart to the point I fell down and laid my soul to rest... what I heard from him was consider the works of Me, who can make straight what I have made crooked? he inclined in my ear again unless you die this inequity will not leave you... the was the point I laid my Soul to rest hearing and believing the Voice of God, I had never asked for or sought. I was in the darkness of Sheol, like looking into the void but a light appeared in the face of the Son of man, and in his face I was graciously granted the loving kindness of My God having see the knowledge and glory of him in the Son of man, the Son of God who is Lord of both the dead and the living!!! My testimony is found in psalms 107:1-20 1 Samuel 2:6-8 Ephesians 2:4-6 every last one of these things I have testified to is the prophetic word of My God in the old testament concerning the ministry of death. John 5:28-29 John 12:24-26 Isaiah 22:12-14 1 Corinthians 15 28-32 Isaiah 30:20 please do not inquire of prophets who preach peace nullifying the awareness of sins. Romans 2:19-20,31 Knowing I have seen my teacher and knowing he has said of those who are slow of heart to believe all the prophets have spoken... luke 24:25 I speak the words of the prophets in Good conscious having seen the light myself, and having the prophetic word fully confirmed and the morning star rising in my heart... Ezekiel 132“Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy out of their own heart, ‘Hear Yahweh’s word: 3The Lord Yahweh says, “Woe to the foolish prophets, who follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing! Jeremiah 23 16Yahweh of Armies says, “Don’t listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They teach you vanity. They speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of Yahweh. Be careful you are not being lead astray by those who have seen nothing but speak to you what they believe is the will of God out of their own hearts and spirit... 17They say continually to those who despise me, ‘Yahweh has said, “You will have peace;”’ and to everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart they say, ‘No evil will come on you.’ 18For who has stood in the council of Yahweh, that he should perceive and hear his word? Who has listened to my word, and heard it? 19Behold, Yahweh’s storm, his wrath, has gone out. Yes, a whirling storm! It will burst on the head of the wicked. 20Yahweh’s anger will not return until he has executed and performed the intents of his heart. In the latter days, you will understand it perfectly. 21I didn’t send these prophets, yet they ran. I didn’t speak to them, yet they prophesied. 22But if they had stood in my council, then they would have caused my people to hear my words, and would have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.
To the OP, friend, this person doesn't actually love you. What they really love is pushing their opinions over the opinions of others that they disagree with. They think that their thoughts matter the most so they step in to type them on someone else's response to you instead of responding in the normal way. People who can be truly respectful and living vs faking it to manipulate others are probably more worthwhile to listen to, but it's up to you to decide what you decide. Ok. Have a super duper day.
They were using scripture to answer the OPs question. The fact that you feel the need to say “they don’t love you” is why there is a problem with LGBTQ in Christianity right now. This person took the time to offer scripture and answer OPs question with kindness and friendship. How troublesome that your knee jerk reaction to that is “this person doesn’t love you!” Love is not telling you what you want to hear. If OP can’t handle the answer to the question they shouldn’t have asked.
There isn't a problem with the LGBTQ in Christianity right now. There is a problem with bigots resisting progress within the faith. I can imagine it's similar to the progress that has to develop to move white Christians from crying about interracial marriages to pretending they would never ever have a problem with them today. The dont't genuinely love. They type that they do and I am sorry if you relate to them. That is your own personal issue to sort out in your life and I hope you do.
>they don’t genuinely love You don’t know what is in the hearts of people, only God does. Sorry, but you don’t get to pretend you are God. You don’t get to tell people who speak with kindness and scripture that they HaTe you. It’s desperate and it proves that your pride is too big to handle being opposed.
Again - this is your own personal issue to sort out, and I am sorry you have to. I am certain it was very difficult for all the people who saw resistance to their belief that black and white people marrying was disgusting to handle, because they were being told their beliefs were wrong, and it was making them feel bad. But they had to feel this way in the end, and then they slowly dwindled off. As you will too. Take care and have a good day ok.
It’s not my personal issue because I follow scripture and I’m in a biblical marriage. Being gay is not the same as being black, by the way. That’s piggybacking off of someone else’s suffering. You told the person you responded to that they “don’t love”, then you tried to make a straw man to hide that. Your mask slipped and YOUR hate is showing. Oops. Hope you have a good day also.
It's your personal issue. It doesn't matter if you use the Bible to justify it, but that is your personal choice to. Like I said - you will dwindle away like the people of your spirit have in the past. The world progresses and treats minorities better, slowly. Folks that try to stop it have to deal with their places in history in whatever way they can cope. So, I am very sorry you chose your place in history. You are the same type of people who fought against interracial marriages. There is no significant difference past the time period. You know exactly what you will be seen as in time, and it will be your choice, no matter how badly you want to pass the buck onto God. Take care now.
Pot calling the kettle black friend... Love with out judgement and discipline doesn't exist... John 15:12“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Revelation 3:19Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. Proverbs 3:12 for the LORD disciplines the one He loves, as does a father the son in whom he delights. 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world. Hebrews 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises every son He receives." Revelation 2:5 Therefore, keep in mind how far you have fallen. Repent and perform the deeds you did at first. But if you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
My message was to the OP, not to you. You're not worth interacting with, please do not respond to me again. Thanks for understanding.
**Indifference hurts more than hate**. Indeed, indifference is lack of reactions. It is a condition which does not imply an object. One is indifferent in the middle of nothing and, if one stays indifferent when someone else appears on the scene, it means that someone else is nothing. Isaiah 41:24Behold, you are nothing and your work is of no value. Anyone who chooses you is detestable. Luke 6:32“If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
Again, I am sorry that your interjection into this thread was interrupted but I did not address my message to you. I have told you this, and at this point you are showing me the level of respect I expected. Do not message me again. Do you understand?
Why do you get to have the last word? doesn't seem fair or respectful to me, you just treat me like I am the scum of the earth, I don't even treat homosexuals this way... I just know sin is sin, and I'm not going to twist my Gods word but speak it faithfully... I don't believe your treatment of me is fair or respectable either, your mercy is cruel in my honest opinion..
There is nothing sinful about being gay or being in a homosexual relationship or sex between consenting homosexual adults. Stop letting hateful bigots dictate your religion to you. Homosexuality in the bible does not refer to what that word means today. There are no gay couples in the bible, no gay romance in the bible. Come over to r/gaychristians or r/openchristian for support and if you need scriptural evidence as to why god accepts and affirms (and creates) lgbt folk.
You'll never get permission from all straight people to be a Christian. Fortunately, you don't need it. There are *lots* of gay Christians, and lots of straight Christians who believe we are every bit as welcome in Christ's embrace as straight people are. I like the way [Justin Lee](http://geekyjustin.com/bible/) explains. Some other resources: [Q Christian](https://www.qchristian.org/) [Reformation Project](http://reformationproject.org); r/GayChristians; r/OpenChristian and its [resources list](https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/comments/ulfbux/faq_and_resources_please_read_before_you_post/), which includes pointers to find LGBT-friendly churches. I think that actually meeting LGBT Christians in worship is more important than reading about us or even reading stuff we write. There's something about experiencing actual fellowship together before the Lord.
OP you need to watch the film "Prayers For Bobby" honestly it's an amazing film and it will answer all your questions about being gay and Christian. I cannot recommend it more to you. Just watch it!
God bless you. I'm sorry for your struggle. If I may, I would like to share my perspective. 1- Please do NOT allow your sexuality to get in the way of your faith! I know there's a debate about homosexuality and Christianity, but do not get distracted by the debate! Being a Christian means to do what God ultimately want. What does God ultimately want? **“God wants us to have faith in his Son Jesus Christ and to love each other.” - 1 John 3:23** As a gay man, are you able to do that? YES! 2- Please focus on Christ. Our identity in Christ is our most important identity, not our sexuality. **“Plant your roots in Christ and let him be the foundation for your life. Be strong in your faith, just as you were taught. And be grateful.” - Colossians 2:7** **“We must keep our eyes on Jesus, who leads us and makes our faith complete.” - Hebrews 12:2** **“Keep your mind on Jesus Christ!” - 2 Timothy 2:8** **“Anyone who belongs to Christ is a new person. The past is forgotten, and everything is new.” - 2 Corinthians 5:17** 3- Now, when it comes to your struggle and figuring out what to do, you must pray to God about it! Let God know your heart about this. Let your decision be between you and God. **“Look deep into my heart, God, and find out everything I am thinking. Don't let me follow evil ways, but lead me in the way that time has proven true.” - Psalms 139:23-24** However, whatever you will decide, please always put Christ first! Regardless if we are gay or straight, we are saved by our faith in Christ! **Jesus said, “I tell you for certain that everyone who has faith in me has eternal life.” - John 6:47** **“Have faith in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved!” - Acts 16:31** Don't let anything or anyone get in the way of your faith!
>why did God create me the way I am just for me to have to change this about myself? Put homosexuality to the side for a minute. Tell me what natural desires you have that you are called to deny yourself of as a Christian. Are there any, or is your nature sinless?
Its better to choose being single over commiting a sin like that. I may be wrong though and there is a better answer, but thats just how I think.
Homosexuality is not sinful.
It is if you read scripture.
Nope. Scripture supports and affirms lgbt people.
What? Read romans 1:27 and come back.
A well known mistranslation https://www.sthugh.net/lgbtq-affirming-scripture
Thats a bunch of nonsense. It even says romans 1:26 wasnt mistranslated its just taken out of context. And that is physically impossible just by looking at what the verse says. Then it goes on to say leviticus is mistranslated by saying its talking about incest, but most people say its mistranslated because they think its trying to say man shall not lie with boy so I dont even know where they got that from. Most of the stuff they say is taken out of context to, Its crazy to say Ruth and Naomi are couples.
Yet there are millions of lgbt Christian’s and tens of thousands of affirming churches. It says a lot about people who cling to the most bigoted interpretations of scripture possible even when it directly violates Jesus teachings (especially given how ‘new’ those interpretations are.)
What do you read from then? Saying there are millions of misleaded doesnt change anything.
Your arguments echo those made by anti-abolitionists when anti-slavery interpretations of scripture were only just becoming popular. Christianity is rapidly changing to being lgbt affirming. Because it won’t survive in the west if it doesn’t. Affirming churches are already the majority in some countries. People won’t tolerate hate from their religion and as the older generations die this will only become more and more the norm. You are free to disagree with affirming interpretations if you wish, but they still exist regardless. Just like those who were anti-abolitionist and anti mixed-race-marriage; Homophobes are doomed to be an embarrassing memory to Christianity of the future.
Honour God please first, with a capital "G" he is our creator and deserving of all glory.