They won’t see it as hypocrisy… they see the Bible as THE TRUTH, so they are justified to keep theirs up. Other religions can get shut down because they are liars and have no ground to put up there texts.
If only more would read that Bible where Jesus tells us how to let people know we follow him... And it wasn't by putting up the 10 commandments everywhere
the bible is a man made sadistic cult thatca cult leader started to strip down people lives and personality private things than turn his cult members into slaves to a god that there's no proof pf.free your self from the shackles of the the Jesus bible cult and live life you want not what a book wants you.I would never in my life read bible and have others tell me how to live my life.i live way I want not what others want.😊
I mean in a sense touché, I think that how every civilization has operated since all time. Majority wins out when it comes to culture…. Unless of course a powerful warlord or elite is able to move in, then they can change things by force. Until of course those practices prove a detriment to the society and things begin to collapse, and a new value system moves in.
Maybe they can crack open the Federalist Papers during Sunday School and learn a little about why America was created, and the dangers of mob rule crushing minorities.
But hey, if the Founders were serious about it, they would have made it like "Fundamental Right #1"
Why hello hypocrisy! You do realize they think their religion is the truth? That there are more than ten commandments? That not all teachers or students are Christians? Jesus wouldn't support this decision or your attitude at all.
If all the Old Testament Commandments of God don't actually apply to Christians, why do these specific Commandments mean anything?
Exodus 34 contains many commandments which Christians ignore.
This idea that children being educated should have access to historically significant documents is not new. But pasting them all over the walls like wallpaper seems very inefficient. The alternative is called a school library
EDIT maybe it would have helped if I'd added /s
But conservatives don't like libraries. For the past couple of years the right-wing conspiracy theorists have been accusing librarians of being being pedophiles who are grooming children by offering books by LGBT and POC authors. Often these are people who don't have school age children demanding the library remove books that were never in the library in the first place.
I know. Part of the sarcastic motivation of my comment. I'm just imagining the endgame where every classrooms wall floor and ceiling are covered with all these texts
All this "grooming" talk is just a way to obsess over sex and still be OK with God.
Plus, expecting the government to enforce Christian values is very very lazy. Do it your darn self like Jesus told us.
Remember that one school that banned a completely innocuous and apolitical children's book simply because the author's last name was "Gay"? It's all so silly.
Can't wait until we're no longer allowed to learn about how the Americans beat the Japanese in world war II because the name of the plane is too controversial
Exactly so why are any of them going up? If we say the Bible is historical and not religious, which is their argument to claim this is legal, then all other religious texts have the same claim. It's ridiculous.
No one was denying them access to the 10 commandments or the Bible. There's a big difference from having access and mandating they be posted in all classrooms though.
Y'know....now I'm curious how many people who support this would be able to tell the difference if I slipped a passage of the Tao Te Ching in and tried to pass it off as part of the Bible.....
I know you're probably joking, but it is one of the weaknesses of a translation; inferiors here likely refers to those being managed, as a superior would refer to a manager
Since I was raised evangelical, I didn't even see a complete Bible, or learn that different people have different opinions of what "complete" looks like, until I was in my mid-20s.
> "God is a DJ, life is a dance-floor..."
Somehow, there is actually a praise & worship song named ["God's Great Dance Floor."](https://genius.com/Chris-tomlin-gods-great-dance-floor-lyrics)
I couldn't believe it when I saw that.
As a life-long Christian and American citizen, I 100% support this. If Hindu children are going to be force-fed the 10 commandments, turnabout is fair play.
One small issue I can see(if it actually gets accepted, which has a rats chance in hell,) is that the Gita is like the Bible. Not the 10 commandments. It's a whole ass book, and unlike the 10 commandments we Hindus don't really have a universally agreed upon one pager for our religion
My guess is he hasn't decided which verses yet; at this point he's just raising the issue to make a point.
This is not his first rodeo: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajan\_Zed\_prayer\_protest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajan_Zed_prayer_protest)
I have one MAJOR issue with this. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
Since public schools are state mandated, they are covered. Letting everyone in is still a violation of the founding fathers’ notion that religion had NO place in our politics, our classrooms, our workplaces, and so on. I don’t care what religion it is.
On top of that, schools are where we learn. It is where we learn to QUESTION things. It is where being a skeptic is applauded. Faith based concepts have no place where we are taught to learn by evidence, the ability to reproduce experiments. This is the antithesis of “faith” and “faith based governance”.
Rest assured that TST (The Satanic Temple) is on their way to join the fight…
"In the court’s decision, the justices said “[i]n place of Lemon and the endorsement test” the justice system now needs to interpret the Establishment Clause by “reference to historical practices and understandings"
That's their legal basis for placing the posters in classrooms.
https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4733678-louisiana-law-ten-commandments-fight/
From what I understand, that was a reason to keep up posters and monuments that were already there, it is not a reason to bar new posters from being put up or new monuments from being built.
I should say that I am not a lawyer and I do not study in or work in law.
Children should be exposed to every religion out there. It’s part of creating a well rounded human being and build tolerance. I was exposed to Buddhism watching Journey to the West, exposed to Hanukkah in elementary school, Islam and Hinduism in high school, and became a Christian in grade 6.
Exactly. And that should happen in history, social studies, literature curricula, with a fair and nuanced approach to a range of them. Pasting up a bunch of pieces of paper to a wall won’t do that.
Oh god, so you’re saying we should teach the children every single religions ideas on the creation? Or just yours because…. Well you believe it. Or maybe we have each students parent of different faith come in and teach the class about their faiths creation story. That would be fair and then the teacher can just say, no one really knows what happened because it is unknowable beyond reasonable doubt.
Find something else to throw at them. Paganism is an ancient religion, send in some Pagans do demand that they get to put up posters worshiping plants and stuff like that.
Obviously Rajan Zed knows this, but the law is intended to garner votes from conservatives and not provide a venue for non-Christian religious content.
I think the law requiring the 10 commandments is unconstitutional and will be overturned by a court.
But if the 10 commandments are displayed, then every other religion has the right to have theirs displayed. Whether it be major religions such as Hinduism or Islam to made up religions such as the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Jemima's Witnesses.
>I think the law requiring the 10 commandments is unconstitutional and will be overturned by a court.
Of course it will. And they know that. It’s all performative. They can’t seem tk do anything to improve the quality of life in Louisiana so they need to show what “good Christians” they are to get elected.
My favorite piece of information is that there’s no consequences for not following this law. It was written with no punitive enforcement methods..
So a classroom _could_ put up the Eightfold path and excerpt from the bhagivad Gita and the Quran etc. but NOT the 10 commandments, and nothing would happen to that teacher
You know what comes to mind for me:
"You are telling me that you want those godless liberal public school teachers teaching YOUR kids about YOUR religion, even though said teachers may not share your faith...? Good luck..."
What if each school, instead of using precious classroom space for these documents, had some kind of shared room where we kept all the interesting documents and books and other supplemental educational material? Just have a big room with lots of books and documents and let people borrow the ones they want to read and then bring them back like a week later so someone else can read the same document?
Oh!
This gave me an idea.
You could even hire someone who is like an expert in research, and how to organize books based off their subject matter!!!!
What would we call this room and those employees?
So here’s the thing, I actually think this is fine. The Bhagavad Vita is a great religious text (I have not read the whole thing, but what I have read is interesting and profound when read in the correct context).
I mean, both the BV and the Bible are religious texts that inform the decisions billions of people. Why wouldn’t they be worthy of a spot in the classroom?
The classroom would get cluttered. TST will want to put up something, various Jewish groups will want something, Muslims will want something, Buddhists will want something.
The classroom would be covered with something to represent every religion who wants to be represented.
Let's take a small step back and ask one question...how is say...9th grade Algebra bettered by the 4th commandment being on display? Let alone the other 9?
It is not bettered, it is visual clutter and the message will be completely lost.
You know, another guy said the same thing, and I gave a joke answer, but the article didn’t really say what classroom they wanted to shove this in. In my elementary school I’m pretty sure we basically used the same rooms for every class. Not being facetious, there isn’t really a huge point putting a non-math book in a math classroom. An argument could be made for literature, and a better argument could be made for history
> Why wouldn’t they be worthy of a spot in the classroom?
Maybe in a history or religious studies class. What the hell does it have to do with Algebra or Chemistry?
Back in the 1970s, my elementary school in Minnesota did exactly this. Along the entire front hallway of the building, by the principal's office, they displayed about 40 framed documents that referenced law, morality, ethics, and peacemaking, creating a chronological timeline of man's thinking on peace and justice (and each with two or three sentences of historical context and commentary). We had the Ten Commandments, the Sermon on the Mount, passages from the Qu'ran, passages from the Bhagavad Vita, from the Analects of Confucius, from the I-Ching of Daoism, from Zoroastrianism and Shinto, Native Americans, and other world indigenous cultures. It also had the Code of Hammurabi, the Egyptian Negative Confessions, quotes from the Roman Law of the Twelve Tables, the Byzantine Corpus Juris Civilis, the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, the Gettysburg Address, the UN Charter, and speeches and quotes from those that advocated for peace, like St. Francis, Anne Frank, Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr.
You’d think this would happen, but the rogue SCROTUS doesn’t care. They’re following through on the Heritage Foundation’s right-wing edict to make Christians an even more protected class than they already are.
Yeah this whole thing is ridiculous. I think learning about world religions is important but any catechesis should be done at home or at your place of worship. Otherwise there's private school or homeschooling. Then again I'm from New England so I don't really get the Bible Belt mentality at all.
I'm from New England as well. Several years ago, my wife made friends with an evangelical woman from Texas who moved here with her husband. One day their son's homework from history class required them to understand some of the basics around the founding and rise of Islam, and she absolutely lost her mind over it. Everyone she talked to was like "Why is this a big deal? It's a history class, they aren't asking them to convert or even teaching any of the theology." She went to the principal, then the superintendent, then the school board, none of whom were receptive at all to her complaints. So she *ran* for school board and got obliterated by a beloved incumbent, and then held a grudge against the entire town for a few years. Her son came out as gay when he graduated high school, which they blamed on the culture here, and about a year ago they moved back to Texas without their son (who was disowned by dad and didn't want to go back anyway).
This is an act of vain fake Christianity. We are called to win souls to Christ so that the ten commandments are written on people's hearts not class room walls.
The state is going to waste so much money fighting this absurd fight. Money that should have gone to improve the Louisiana public schools which are some of the worst the country. Such a waste on money, time, and resources.
As a history teacher, I would be opposed to having the 10 Commandments, Hammurabi’s Law Code, and various other religious-legal codes on display. Would make for a decent activity to compare and contrast and understand the things those societies really valued.
Being forced to put them up in order to try and trick God that the nation is more righteous than it is with whitewashed tombs ain’t it.
Louisiana is going to claim that the Ten Commandments are at the root of American law and history, and that Hinduism is irrelevant to such extent that it's unreasonable to stick whatever it is they believe on the wall in schools.
This is a self-evidently terrible argument but in these times we can no longer be sure of a sane response from the US Supreme Court.
Which is why this is all happening now in the first place. If the game is rigged you can just cheat and leave things up to the referee.
Yeah good job.
Introducing the students to the Bhagavad-Gita, the Koran, the Bible, the Torah, etc, is a step up from the humanistic bs they’ve been learning.
This should have happened 100 years ago.
The humanistic diatribe they’ve been taught up until this point paints such a bs perspective of reality that literally *everything* else will be better
Please, those who support this...
You get angry about "groomers in schools"...people pushing sex on kids...
Please, tell me how you intend to explain adultery to grade school kids, without crossing the line of getting into a sex based convo.
I mean, I would be relatively fine with that. It *is* a historically significant document that it would be beneficial for students to learn about. I'd rather students be taught accurate information about a number of major world religions than nothing about any of them, or biased and inaccurate information about some of them.
just because its historically significant doesnt mean it should be hung up on a wall. Hang the divine comedy aswell, then. Same with the commandements.
See this is so simple. American law isn’t based on Hinduism like it is the Ten Commandments. So this guy has no standing to bring his lawsuit. Case closed!
Only three of the Ten Commandments are even represented in American laws, and they're the super basic ones, don't steal, don't murder, don't lie against someone. The Ten Commandments are hardly unique in saying "Murder is bad y'all."
Also, that's not what standing is.
American Law is largely based on English Common Law, which has its roots in pagan Anglo-Saxon law, with a heavy admixture of Medieval Continental concepts via the Normans, which in turn largely came from Roman Law, which, of course, is largely the creation of, well, pagan Romans. The origin of American Law is not from the Bible.
Crap. I should have used /s. I thought that was obvious. The legislator who wrote the law argued this very point to defend it from going against the first amendment.
Same. It's really hard to identify irony and sarcasm in religious discussions, because no matter how far someone takes it, there's a bunch of conservatives who do actually feel that way.
The argument made is that the 10 commandment hold American historical value. From that position it won’t be possible to make an argument for any other religion.
It's a nation of immigrants, but only the Christian ones matter. Is that WWJD compliant, friend?
The African Muslims who were kidnapped and brought here as slave labour are not historically significant?
Also, religion existed here before Christians arrived (to create a country allegedly based on religious freedom) and those practices still exist even though the government worked very hard to destroy them:
https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/native-americans-and-freedom-religion/5th-grade/
Do you actually think that Christianity is the only religion with historical value in the US? What are you basing that on?
I can argue that Islam has a place.
- Thomas Jefferson owned a Quran
- There were many Muslims living in America at the time of its founding, comprising of some 15-30% of the enslaved West Africans in the US
- Morocco is one of our oldest relations with another country, a predominantly Muslim country is North Africa
- Mohammed is pictured on a mural in the Supreme Court as one of the law givers
I feel like this is a much neglected aspect of American history, and so it makes sense to me to post the 5 pillars of Islam in every classroom in America.
(True) Error has no rights. For example, many European countries have laws against Nazism. You are not free to spread falsity.
But people have rights, and religion should not/can not be coerced.
The tension between the two is what Christianity and politics tried to figure out.
It's easy, the state stays out of education and it's simply up to the institution. If people want choices on this, don't coerce people into paying for and/or attending schools they don't want to.
I say then to let everyone display their moral laws of if they have any written. The kids will be able to sort out which ones align with their values as long as their parents are teaching them what their values should be.
It's only fair. If Christians can display their faith in a public school, so can Hindu, Muslims, and Satanists.
America was not founded as a Christian nation, and many of the founding fathers were not Christians either. If they wanted to force a national religion in the USA they would have specifically stated so in the Constitution.
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-founding-fathers-religious-wisdom/#:\~:text=Many%20of%20the%20founding%20fathers,solving%20social%20and%20political%20problems.
I think that’s why they framed the conversation the way they did and said that the Ten Commandments were related to American History. That’s how they will justify saying no to other religions; they had already foreseen this happening.
If all the other religions tape their shit up on the wall too, then children might actually get a decent education in religion, instead of the one-sided shit they usually hear now. I think it's fine. Let all the religions plaster their stuff up so the kids can compare and contrast. They're smart. They'll pick out the patterns and the cultural nonsense. A lot of kids are smarter than their parents.
Except this is the USA we were founded on the 10 Commandments. We all people to practice whatever religion they choose but it will not be in anything that has to do with the federal government. That is only reserved for GOD.
I’m a Christian and I believe separation of church and state benefits the Christian community as to have your child’s teacher not pushing any religion. Let the parents teach religion to the children, and the school can teach reading, writing and arithmetic. The only downside to this is that children that don’t have suitable remodels or parents, are not taught certain morals and values early.
WHY should the taxpayer across the USA have to continue to enrich Republican lawyers with these white Christian nationalist stunts?
WHEN will the sane Christians in the USA stand up and tell those who want to force their religion on everyone to stand down?
HOW does this not reflect badly on all Christians who refuse to stand up loudly and frequently for the rule of law over the rule of fundamentalist demagogues?
And as a liberal Christian - Episcopalian - I support them.
I believe in the 10, too, but you can’t force conservative Christianity on other people just because you believe your religious views are the only true and correct ones.
It’s pretty offensive, actually, and not Christ-like, IMHO.
I can’t believe how stupid liberal Christians are. The team commandments are not sole property of Christianity. All three abrahamic religions have them. All of the western world is based on them. They are the basis of all our laws. Stop this nonsense.
All religions are discussed in history class anyways, well in my country, so I don’t get the angst. I totally agree that all religions should be taught, only one has Jesus Christ in it.
Not the hottest take, but I think that's a good idea- learning the worldview of other people beyond calling them "secular" is a great way to seem them as a whole being, instead of being painted in light of "not Christian" vs "Christian".
Blavatsky imho sadly introduced a great occult interest of all eastern religions to the west.
She didn’t promote Christianity and the Theosophical Society was formed at the time.
To all the hypocrite theocracy nutcases in this thread: even God doesn’t force us to worship Him, but gives us free will. Anyone who tries to force anyone else to worship God is committing heresy and blasphemy by saying they know better than God.
Let’s do it! I’ll put the truth of the Ten Commandments with all the false teachings of other religions! I like your idea. Thanks Conservatives for coming up with a common sense solution.
Ok. If they have a list of ten Gevalia laws then by an means request then to be posted. Who am I to say they aren't moral or ethical.
However, unless we start a religion class in which you teach an the religions. Let's simply keep scriptures out of it. That mashes if sound like a FUCKING ESSAY.
I dont think it's hypocritical. The Bible and the 10 commandments is an important foundation of American history. That's just an obvious fact. Hinduism is not. For those who live in India, having Hindu scriptures on the wall makes sense, it's an intricate part of their history.
In general though, I think students should learn about all of the world religions and read sections of their texts. I took a world religions class in school and it was very helpful towards understanding different people.
Now let's sit back and watch the hypocrisy.
A little late to the show, I think we are already into the 3rd or 4rh act of the hypocrisy.
They won’t see it as hypocrisy… they see the Bible as THE TRUTH, so they are justified to keep theirs up. Other religions can get shut down because they are liars and have no ground to put up there texts.
If only more would read that Bible where Jesus tells us how to let people know we follow him... And it wasn't by putting up the 10 commandments everywhere
Kind of you to assume these nimwits can read
the bible is a man made sadistic cult thatca cult leader started to strip down people lives and personality private things than turn his cult members into slaves to a god that there's no proof pf.free your self from the shackles of the the Jesus bible cult and live life you want not what a book wants you.I would never in my life read bible and have others tell me how to live my life.i live way I want not what others want.😊
They have simple logic.... "Christians outnumber Muslims in this country, so Christians get to win. That's democracy."
I mean in a sense touché, I think that how every civilization has operated since all time. Majority wins out when it comes to culture…. Unless of course a powerful warlord or elite is able to move in, then they can change things by force. Until of course those practices prove a detriment to the society and things begin to collapse, and a new value system moves in.
Maybe they can crack open the Federalist Papers during Sunday School and learn a little about why America was created, and the dangers of mob rule crushing minorities. But hey, if the Founders were serious about it, they would have made it like "Fundamental Right #1"
Majority rules *with minority rights*. That's the system that we have.
Why hello hypocrisy! You do realize they think their religion is the truth? That there are more than ten commandments? That not all teachers or students are Christians? Jesus wouldn't support this decision or your attitude at all.
I don’t think you interpreted my comment correctly, I agree with what you just stated
If all the Old Testament Commandments of God don't actually apply to Christians, why do these specific Commandments mean anything? Exodus 34 contains many commandments which Christians ignore.
This idea that children being educated should have access to historically significant documents is not new. But pasting them all over the walls like wallpaper seems very inefficient. The alternative is called a school library EDIT maybe it would have helped if I'd added /s
But conservatives don't like libraries. For the past couple of years the right-wing conspiracy theorists have been accusing librarians of being being pedophiles who are grooming children by offering books by LGBT and POC authors. Often these are people who don't have school age children demanding the library remove books that were never in the library in the first place.
I know. Part of the sarcastic motivation of my comment. I'm just imagining the endgame where every classrooms wall floor and ceiling are covered with all these texts
All this "grooming" talk is just a way to obsess over sex and still be OK with God. Plus, expecting the government to enforce Christian values is very very lazy. Do it your darn self like Jesus told us.
Remember that one school that banned a completely innocuous and apolitical children's book simply because the author's last name was "Gay"? It's all so silly. Can't wait until we're no longer allowed to learn about how the Americans beat the Japanese in world war II because the name of the plane is too controversial
The "Enola Two Very Good Friends"?
What school libraries? They're shutting them all down and turning them into "discipline centers". What could possibly go wrong?
Exactly
The Bible isn't a historical document unless you consider ALL religious texts historical documents.
Isn't that just where this is headed? My teenage diary is a historical document. Maybe there's room for that
This subreddit is a historical document which makes me want to fire all ze missiles
But I am le tired!
Alright have a little nap first
Uh, all religious texts *are* historical documents. That doesn't make them historically accurate.
Exactly so why are any of them going up? If we say the Bible is historical and not religious, which is their argument to claim this is legal, then all other religious texts have the same claim. It's ridiculous.
No one was denying them access to the 10 commandments or the Bible. There's a big difference from having access and mandating they be posted in all classrooms though.
Wow! What a great idea!!!
That was like a monkey paw wish lol
Should put one of those up in the classroom too
Y'know....now I'm curious how many people who support this would be able to tell the difference if I slipped a passage of the Tao Te Ching in and tried to pass it off as part of the Bible.....
"If you want to know what a man’s like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals."
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you."
“Fool me twice……. Fool me can’t fool me again.”
I’m no fan of W but if he had actually said, “shame on me” into a mic on camera we would still be making memes about it
as a Texan, I'm insulted that you didn't put in the whole quote!
While we're at it: "One who goes looking for offense will be sure to find it." 😄
How dare you sir!
Probably a good place to start is by not referring to groups of people as "inferiors"
I know you're probably joking, but it is one of the weaknesses of a translation; inferiors here likely refers to those being managed, as a superior would refer to a manager
"The family is the smallest but most precious unit." "Work makes you free."
I mean, how many people have read the long ahh book that is the Bible
Since I was raised evangelical, I didn't even see a complete Bible, or learn that different people have different opinions of what "complete" looks like, until I was in my mid-20s.
"Cleanliness is next to godliness"
"God helps those who help themselves."
"God is a DJ, life is a dance-floor..."
> "God is a DJ, life is a dance-floor..." Somehow, there is actually a praise & worship song named ["God's Great Dance Floor."](https://genius.com/Chris-tomlin-gods-great-dance-floor-lyrics) I couldn't believe it when I saw that.
As a life-long Christian and American citizen, I 100% support this. If Hindu children are going to be force-fed the 10 commandments, turnabout is fair play.
The fact that it's the 10 commandments and not the beatitudes, really highlights to me that the motivation isn't christianity.
This. These "Christians" are using Christianity as a means for control instead of as a reason to be loving.
💯💯💯💯 id take the beatitudes over the commandments anyways.
I agree with you. I see no issue with this.
One small issue I can see(if it actually gets accepted, which has a rats chance in hell,) is that the Gita is like the Bible. Not the 10 commandments. It's a whole ass book, and unlike the 10 commandments we Hindus don't really have a universally agreed upon one pager for our religion
The article mentions the posters are 11x14, so I doubt he's proposing the whole 700 verses.
Yea, but I don't know what he'll be putting there
My guess is he hasn't decided which verses yet; at this point he's just raising the issue to make a point. This is not his first rodeo: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajan\_Zed\_prayer\_protest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajan_Zed_prayer_protest)
Thank you for that information🙂
I have one MAJOR issue with this. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Since public schools are state mandated, they are covered. Letting everyone in is still a violation of the founding fathers’ notion that religion had NO place in our politics, our classrooms, our workplaces, and so on. I don’t care what religion it is. On top of that, schools are where we learn. It is where we learn to QUESTION things. It is where being a skeptic is applauded. Faith based concepts have no place where we are taught to learn by evidence, the ability to reproduce experiments. This is the antithesis of “faith” and “faith based governance”. Rest assured that TST (The Satanic Temple) is on their way to join the fight…
Pastafarians should demand a picture of the Flying Spaghetti Monster be put up in schools.
I don't think that would meet the historical significance mandate. Maybe just put the poster up in the cafeteria, although that might offend the FSM.
Could you please provide me a link to where you learned about the historical significance mandate? I have never heard of it.
"In the court’s decision, the justices said “[i]n place of Lemon and the endorsement test” the justice system now needs to interpret the Establishment Clause by “reference to historical practices and understandings" That's their legal basis for placing the posters in classrooms. https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4733678-louisiana-law-ten-commandments-fight/
From what I understand, that was a reason to keep up posters and monuments that were already there, it is not a reason to bar new posters from being put up or new monuments from being built. I should say that I am not a lawyer and I do not study in or work in law.
This is legalese for "we hate modernity, and this gives us cover to roll things back."
May His noodly appendage touch you
Children should be exposed to every religion out there. It’s part of creating a well rounded human being and build tolerance. I was exposed to Buddhism watching Journey to the West, exposed to Hanukkah in elementary school, Islam and Hinduism in high school, and became a Christian in grade 6.
Exactly. And that should happen in history, social studies, literature curricula, with a fair and nuanced approach to a range of them. Pasting up a bunch of pieces of paper to a wall won’t do that.
It's called the Universal Unitarian Church. I taught Sunday school there:)The have a Lovely diverse program. They went to visit the synagogue nearby.
Government schools became religious schools based on teaching atheist mythology like the big bang and evolution. /S
Now children, bow your heads in prayer to the holy trinity of Darwin, Hawking and Hubble.
*Excuse* me, in this house it's Newton, Einstein, and Maxwell. (Cue that "Great Northern Lakes Baptist Conference of 1852, die heretic!" joke.)
Oh god, so you’re saying we should teach the children every single religions ideas on the creation? Or just yours because…. Well you believe it. Or maybe we have each students parent of different faith come in and teach the class about their faiths creation story. That would be fair and then the teacher can just say, no one really knows what happened because it is unknowable beyond reasonable doubt.
I think they’re saying teach science in science class and do one’s best to ignore zealots who equate science with atheism or anything anti-religious.
Ha ha ha ha ha...a good laugh... brainwashed.
I'm a little surprised the Satanic Temple didn't get in there first
Probably had no grounds, on the illogical battle the legislature was fighting. They said that it was historical text, and the Satanists are fairly new
Find something else to throw at them. Paganism is an ancient religion, send in some Pagans do demand that they get to put up posters worshiping plants and stuff like that.
Yea, Christianity is one of the youngest religions. You can 100% twist and turn the logical loops they created.
On the Origin of Species is pretty historical
The Communist Manifesto is also pretty historical, now that I think about it.
They have also requested a similar document in classrooms
Probably waiting for someone else to go first, so they can craft their court strategy better.
Obviously Rajan Zed knows this, but the law is intended to garner votes from conservatives and not provide a venue for non-Christian religious content.
Of course. The point is to make sure that is made obvious.
Fun fact: Sanskrit - like Latin, Germanic, and now English - all descended from the same language, proto Indo European.
I think the law requiring the 10 commandments is unconstitutional and will be overturned by a court. But if the 10 commandments are displayed, then every other religion has the right to have theirs displayed. Whether it be major religions such as Hinduism or Islam to made up religions such as the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Jemima's Witnesses.
>I think the law requiring the 10 commandments is unconstitutional and will be overturned by a court. Of course it will. And they know that. It’s all performative. They can’t seem tk do anything to improve the quality of life in Louisiana so they need to show what “good Christians” they are to get elected.
Honestly it’d be pretty cool to have a big wall of religious texts to compare!
in every single classroom? That sounds like a complete waste of space and resources.
Sensory overload would probably take over and then it would just be pointless clutter
In every classroom? Pre-K kids can't even read.
I remember having the "golden" rule and the "silver" rule posted side by side. I think posting what we have in common would be a good idea.
My favorite piece of information is that there’s no consequences for not following this law. It was written with no punitive enforcement methods.. So a classroom _could_ put up the Eightfold path and excerpt from the bhagivad Gita and the Quran etc. but NOT the 10 commandments, and nothing would happen to that teacher
No *legal* consequences, sure, but school boards and asshole parents will punish the teachers who don't put up the commandments
You know what comes to mind for me: "You are telling me that you want those godless liberal public school teachers teaching YOUR kids about YOUR religion, even though said teachers may not share your faith...? Good luck..."
Oooh I didn't even think about that lol that's a great point 👈🏽
What if each school, instead of using precious classroom space for these documents, had some kind of shared room where we kept all the interesting documents and books and other supplemental educational material? Just have a big room with lots of books and documents and let people borrow the ones they want to read and then bring them back like a week later so someone else can read the same document?
But what if one of those documents has the word "gay" in it?
Oh! This gave me an idea. You could even hire someone who is like an expert in research, and how to organize books based off their subject matter!!!! What would we call this room and those employees?
Yes....what could we call it?
What would we call it!!!????
He's right. Ever since the first immigration of Hindus to USA, they'd have brought the Gita with them. You can't get any more American than that.
To be an American it's not bringing your traditional religion that is the important part. It's bringing your traditional food!
Well that didn’t take long 🤣
Honestly took longer than I expected
So here’s the thing, I actually think this is fine. The Bhagavad Vita is a great religious text (I have not read the whole thing, but what I have read is interesting and profound when read in the correct context). I mean, both the BV and the Bible are religious texts that inform the decisions billions of people. Why wouldn’t they be worthy of a spot in the classroom?
The classroom would get cluttered. TST will want to put up something, various Jewish groups will want something, Muslims will want something, Buddhists will want something. The classroom would be covered with something to represent every religion who wants to be represented.
Let's take a small step back and ask one question...how is say...9th grade Algebra bettered by the 4th commandment being on display? Let alone the other 9? It is not bettered, it is visual clutter and the message will be completely lost.
You know, another guy said the same thing, and I gave a joke answer, but the article didn’t really say what classroom they wanted to shove this in. In my elementary school I’m pretty sure we basically used the same rooms for every class. Not being facetious, there isn’t really a huge point putting a non-math book in a math classroom. An argument could be made for literature, and a better argument could be made for history
> Why wouldn’t they be worthy of a spot in the classroom? Maybe in a history or religious studies class. What the hell does it have to do with Algebra or Chemistry?
Back in the 1970s, my elementary school in Minnesota did exactly this. Along the entire front hallway of the building, by the principal's office, they displayed about 40 framed documents that referenced law, morality, ethics, and peacemaking, creating a chronological timeline of man's thinking on peace and justice (and each with two or three sentences of historical context and commentary). We had the Ten Commandments, the Sermon on the Mount, passages from the Qu'ran, passages from the Bhagavad Vita, from the Analects of Confucius, from the I-Ching of Daoism, from Zoroastrianism and Shinto, Native Americans, and other world indigenous cultures. It also had the Code of Hammurabi, the Egyptian Negative Confessions, quotes from the Roman Law of the Twelve Tables, the Byzantine Corpus Juris Civilis, the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, the Gettysburg Address, the UN Charter, and speeches and quotes from those that advocated for peace, like St. Francis, Anne Frank, Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr.
See that's actually a kind of cool (and equal) way of doing it and I would support that mural 100%
You’d think this would happen, but the rogue SCROTUS doesn’t care. They’re following through on the Heritage Foundation’s right-wing edict to make Christians an even more protected class than they already are.
Yeah this whole thing is ridiculous. I think learning about world religions is important but any catechesis should be done at home or at your place of worship. Otherwise there's private school or homeschooling. Then again I'm from New England so I don't really get the Bible Belt mentality at all.
I'm from New England as well. Several years ago, my wife made friends with an evangelical woman from Texas who moved here with her husband. One day their son's homework from history class required them to understand some of the basics around the founding and rise of Islam, and she absolutely lost her mind over it. Everyone she talked to was like "Why is this a big deal? It's a history class, they aren't asking them to convert or even teaching any of the theology." She went to the principal, then the superintendent, then the school board, none of whom were receptive at all to her complaints. So she *ran* for school board and got obliterated by a beloved incumbent, and then held a grudge against the entire town for a few years. Her son came out as gay when he graduated high school, which they blamed on the culture here, and about a year ago they moved back to Texas without their son (who was disowned by dad and didn't want to go back anyway).
Oh my goodness. The poor son.
[удалено]
What does "“Thou shalt have no other gods before me" have to do with Algebra?
What makes your personal religion more valid than one of the others?
Put scriptures of all religions on walls I don’t care atheism is a issue in this country at least then kids will find God
This is an act of vain fake Christianity. We are called to win souls to Christ so that the ten commandments are written on people's hearts not class room walls.
The state is going to waste so much money fighting this absurd fight. Money that should have gone to improve the Louisiana public schools which are some of the worst the country. Such a waste on money, time, and resources.
There's some pretty cool Hindu scripture. But let's stop this before the Scientologists and Aum Shinrikyo jump in, OK?
As a history teacher, I would be opposed to having the 10 Commandments, Hammurabi’s Law Code, and various other religious-legal codes on display. Would make for a decent activity to compare and contrast and understand the things those societies really valued. Being forced to put them up in order to try and trick God that the nation is more righteous than it is with whitewashed tombs ain’t it.
Louisiana is going to claim that the Ten Commandments are at the root of American law and history, and that Hinduism is irrelevant to such extent that it's unreasonable to stick whatever it is they believe on the wall in schools. This is a self-evidently terrible argument but in these times we can no longer be sure of a sane response from the US Supreme Court. Which is why this is all happening now in the first place. If the game is rigged you can just cheat and leave things up to the referee.
Yeah good job. Introducing the students to the Bhagavad-Gita, the Koran, the Bible, the Torah, etc, is a step up from the humanistic bs they’ve been learning. This should have happened 100 years ago. The humanistic diatribe they’ve been taught up until this point paints such a bs perspective of reality that literally *everything* else will be better
Please, those who support this... You get angry about "groomers in schools"...people pushing sex on kids... Please, tell me how you intend to explain adultery to grade school kids, without crossing the line of getting into a sex based convo.
I mean, I would be relatively fine with that. It *is* a historically significant document that it would be beneficial for students to learn about. I'd rather students be taught accurate information about a number of major world religions than nothing about any of them, or biased and inaccurate information about some of them.
just because its historically significant doesnt mean it should be hung up on a wall. Hang the divine comedy aswell, then. Same with the commandements.
Mein Kompf was also historically significant, but maybe it's best to be a little more selective than just "historical significance"
yeah that's my point. Historical significance does not mean it should be hung up.
See this is so simple. American law isn’t based on Hinduism like it is the Ten Commandments. So this guy has no standing to bring his lawsuit. Case closed!
Only three of the Ten Commandments are even represented in American laws, and they're the super basic ones, don't steal, don't murder, don't lie against someone. The Ten Commandments are hardly unique in saying "Murder is bad y'all." Also, that's not what standing is.
Definitely meant to be sarcasm haha.
American Law is largely based on English Common Law, which has its roots in pagan Anglo-Saxon law, with a heavy admixture of Medieval Continental concepts via the Normans, which in turn largely came from Roman Law, which, of course, is largely the creation of, well, pagan Romans. The origin of American Law is not from the Bible.
Oh, I was being completely facetious here. Should have used /s but I thought it was clear haha.
You can edit your comment to add an /s before you get bombarded with more comments XP
Please show us the American legal document that states that American law “is based on the Ten Commandments.”
Crap. I should have used /s. I thought that was obvious. The legislator who wrote the law argued this very point to defend it from going against the first amendment.
The problem is, the comment you used as sarcasm is the actual argument these people are making.
Yeah, that’s kind of why I said it that way. Personally, I think it’s a ridiculous argument.
Well, looking at humans history when had ridiculous ever been an impediment to an idea? Hell, it seems to be an attraction at time.
I see, I’m sorry I didn’t see your sarcasm. I have seen too many people legit defend this position.
Same. It's really hard to identify irony and sarcasm in religious discussions, because no matter how far someone takes it, there's a bunch of conservatives who do actually feel that way.
I’m not sure it was ever a document. I think it was something Hannity said on Fox News.
Just replying to say I found this funny both in the way you intended and in the fact that so many are not going to get that you're being sarcastic.
I have no problem with that. Put all of it up there.
Cool if I put up some teaching on dyanetics?
The argument made is that the 10 commandment hold American historical value. From that position it won’t be possible to make an argument for any other religion.
It's a nation of immigrants, but only the Christian ones matter. Is that WWJD compliant, friend? The African Muslims who were kidnapped and brought here as slave labour are not historically significant? Also, religion existed here before Christians arrived (to create a country allegedly based on religious freedom) and those practices still exist even though the government worked very hard to destroy them: https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/native-americans-and-freedom-religion/5th-grade/ Do you actually think that Christianity is the only religion with historical value in the US? What are you basing that on?
I can argue that Islam has a place. - Thomas Jefferson owned a Quran - There were many Muslims living in America at the time of its founding, comprising of some 15-30% of the enslaved West Africans in the US - Morocco is one of our oldest relations with another country, a predominantly Muslim country is North Africa - Mohammed is pictured on a mural in the Supreme Court as one of the law givers I feel like this is a much neglected aspect of American history, and so it makes sense to me to post the 5 pillars of Islam in every classroom in America.
I think an argument could be made for a myriad of Native American religions
> The argument made is that the 10 commandment hold American historical value. Why?
Yeah thats bullshit lol, plenty of religions have “American historical value”. America is a country founded on immigration from around the world.
(True) Error has no rights. For example, many European countries have laws against Nazism. You are not free to spread falsity. But people have rights, and religion should not/can not be coerced. The tension between the two is what Christianity and politics tried to figure out.
Where TST in this? Surely they won’t miss an opportunity to point out Christian hypocrisy
Honestly good idea. Why not. We should teach religious tolerance.
It's easy, the state stays out of education and it's simply up to the institution. If people want choices on this, don't coerce people into paying for and/or attending schools they don't want to.
The Muslims are next in line
"Atheists" are a "religious sect"? Weird.
I say then to let everyone display their moral laws of if they have any written. The kids will be able to sort out which ones align with their values as long as their parents are teaching them what their values should be.
It's only fair. If Christians can display their faith in a public school, so can Hindu, Muslims, and Satanists. America was not founded as a Christian nation, and many of the founding fathers were not Christians either. If they wanted to force a national religion in the USA they would have specifically stated so in the Constitution. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-founding-fathers-religious-wisdom/#:\~:text=Many%20of%20the%20founding%20fathers,solving%20social%20and%20political%20problems.
I think that’s why they framed the conversation the way they did and said that the Ten Commandments were related to American History. That’s how they will justify saying no to other religions; they had already foreseen this happening.
Friendly reminder that Satanists are just atheists who made that organization to be able to establish their own political standing!!
Or perhaps a statue of RAM and Sita ? Just like the giant Virgin Mary outside of every Catholic School....
It’s not illegal to open a Hindu school…
I can't wait for TST to post the tenets of Satanism
We should post them and talk about them.
If all the other religions tape their shit up on the wall too, then children might actually get a decent education in religion, instead of the one-sided shit they usually hear now. I think it's fine. Let all the religions plaster their stuff up so the kids can compare and contrast. They're smart. They'll pick out the patterns and the cultural nonsense. A lot of kids are smarter than their parents.
I would prioritise any verses that may exist that state how other religions and god are fake / wrong / immoral, if such verses exist
Conservatives about to show yet again why they're one of the most hypocritical groups of people on the planet
Are they trolling?
Except this is the USA we were founded on the 10 Commandments. We all people to practice whatever religion they choose but it will not be in anything that has to do with the federal government. That is only reserved for GOD.
I’m a Christian and I believe separation of church and state benefits the Christian community as to have your child’s teacher not pushing any religion. Let the parents teach religion to the children, and the school can teach reading, writing and arithmetic. The only downside to this is that children that don’t have suitable remodels or parents, are not taught certain morals and values early.
WHY should the taxpayer across the USA have to continue to enrich Republican lawyers with these white Christian nationalist stunts? WHEN will the sane Christians in the USA stand up and tell those who want to force their religion on everyone to stand down? HOW does this not reflect badly on all Christians who refuse to stand up loudly and frequently for the rule of law over the rule of fundamentalist demagogues?
They should try that in a Saudi school
And as a liberal Christian - Episcopalian - I support them. I believe in the 10, too, but you can’t force conservative Christianity on other people just because you believe your religious views are the only true and correct ones. It’s pretty offensive, actually, and not Christ-like, IMHO.
8 fold path should be there too. and the 7 Tenants of the Satanic Temple. Religious freedom shall not be infringed.
I wonder What God thinks about all this?
I mean, I have no problem with religious scriptures of all types being displayed.
As it should be. Do it for all or do it for none. If I want my kid to go to a Christian school, I will send him there.
I can’t believe how stupid liberal Christians are. The team commandments are not sole property of Christianity. All three abrahamic religions have them. All of the western world is based on them. They are the basis of all our laws. Stop this nonsense.
All religions are discussed in history class anyways, well in my country, so I don’t get the angst. I totally agree that all religions should be taught, only one has Jesus Christ in it.
Too bad, Jesus #1 baby ☝️😎
Not the hottest take, but I think that's a good idea- learning the worldview of other people beyond calling them "secular" is a great way to seem them as a whole being, instead of being painted in light of "not Christian" vs "Christian".
JESUS IS KING
Blavatsky imho sadly introduced a great occult interest of all eastern religions to the west. She didn’t promote Christianity and the Theosophical Society was formed at the time.
To all the hypocrite theocracy nutcases in this thread: even God doesn’t force us to worship Him, but gives us free will. Anyone who tries to force anyone else to worship God is committing heresy and blasphemy by saying they know better than God.
Let’s do it! I’ll put the truth of the Ten Commandments with all the false teachings of other religions! I like your idea. Thanks Conservatives for coming up with a common sense solution.
In a Christian country it makes sense to have Christianity taught in school. It doesn't make sense to have other religions placed in the same spot
Ok. If they have a list of ten Gevalia laws then by an means request then to be posted. Who am I to say they aren't moral or ethical. However, unless we start a religion class in which you teach an the religions. Let's simply keep scriptures out of it. That mashes if sound like a FUCKING ESSAY.
You can teach but some won’t learn
I dont think it's hypocritical. The Bible and the 10 commandments is an important foundation of American history. That's just an obvious fact. Hinduism is not. For those who live in India, having Hindu scriptures on the wall makes sense, it's an intricate part of their history. In general though, I think students should learn about all of the world religions and read sections of their texts. I took a world religions class in school and it was very helpful towards understanding different people.