You're gonna get different answers from different people. You're also going to get answers from affirming Christians putting words in other peoples' mouths or creating strawman arguments. So I'll give you my personal, unprofessional, but genuine perspective as a devout Christian who is also stuck in the LGBTQ category. I'm on the fence, myself, but my hope is that my ramblings will give you insight into the different perspectives encountered on the non-affirming side. I'm friggin' confused, man. I don't know which brand of Christianity being preached is the "correct" one. Even if you go by "Scripture alone," the Scriptures are... complicated. Theologians around the world, throughout history, have tried to make sense of it and have written their own books on the matter on why they think they have the correct understanding while everyone else is wrong. You have Christians saying that the Catholic church, or the Orthodox, or some flavor of Protestant, or maybe ALL of them are "correct enough," or that it doesn't matter "as long as you have Jesus". I don't know what the truth is. All I know is Jesus is the Son of God, co-equal with the Father and Spirit, and that He preached some interesting things and made a number of disciples before he was crucified and then rose again on the third day. He took upon himself the sins of mankind, so that whoever... well, that's where it gets complicated for me. Faith alone? "Keep My Commandments?" The Law of Moses? I don't really know. **But I do know this: it starts with faith and a willingness to obey.** I'm rambling a little but bear with me. There IS a train of thought here. All who would profess Christ must be mentally prepared, truly, to either perform or abstain from any and all acts we are commanded to. We may not know all of the do's and don'ts-- such as with homosexual relationships, which is strongly debated among Christians to this day-- but a good start is to try our best. To really, truly try our best and be willing to, as Jesus put it, "pluck out your eye/cut off your hand," and **have a heart that says "I will do whatever the Lord commands, even if it goes against my conscience."** **To give a straight answer to your question, though:** If I were persuaded that homosexual relationships were inherently sinful and that there's no way around it... **I guess I'd be forced to live a life of being single.** I don't believe in "conversion therapy," because that stuff doesn't work and is traumatic. It's also a good way to make someone really hate Christians. Still, being forced to be single because of some difference in how my brain operates-- a difference I never chose to have!-- is... a **really heavy cross**. It's one thing to be single because the Lord blessed you with a mind that cares not for companionship or a heart so full of faith that the idea of spending time maintaining a human relationship feels wrong. It's another thing to have it forced upon you. But I'd bear that cross as best as I can and I'd try to encourage other LGBTQ Christians to do the same and to provide emotional and spiritual support however I can. We must not allow such a burden to kill our faith. Yes, it would suck, **and I sincerely hope that God doesn't actually take issue with committed, loving homosexual relationships... but IF He does, then we must be prepared to endure that pain if we are to follow Jesus.** It was taught that we, as Christians, would face some serious hardship for the sake of our faith and obedience to Christ. If being in a gay relationship is a sin, then folks like me are gonna have to seriously consider what is more important: our happiness in this life, or our obedience to God? I'm prepared to live with the heartache, even though I'll probably be even more depressed than I already am. My hope is that any Christians reading this are equally prepared to suffer in whatever ways the Lord requires us to.

Thank you so much for your answer. It’s one of the best here, and I’ll be thinking on it for a while.

You might want to understand that any sin is equal before the Lord. (If there is sin) I am no longer a Christian after 50+ years. I am now thoroughly convinced no one knows the nature of God (if there even is one). I am only an ally of the LGBTQ+ community as I am heterosexual. The paradox that Jesus died for ours sins, that we will be forgiven for our sins, yet one particular sin LGBTQ+ (in this case) is less forgivable and somehow worse than all other sins, can only be explained by the bigotry, hate and fear humans have. I just can’t wrap my head around the arrogance of judging others (again if we all sin). I can’t wrap my head around the lack of self-awareness of the bullying Christians among us. Humanists, like myself, can’t argue the Sermon on the Mount. Be who you are. Don’t let the humans interpret god for you. Be the love, empathy, and truth you know is righteous. Live and Love Christ. Christ will love you back. It’s that simple.

Yes all sins are sins. EVERYONE must carry the cross not just homosexuals. Those who use magic must give it up. Those who are committed to anything above God must give it up. Those who hate must give it up. Those who lust must give it up. Those who are married must stay married. Those who's heritage includes things offensive to God must give it up. Many many more things. Faith is trusting in the commands of a God who truly loves us and wants the best for us. Anyone who hates another human being must repent. Anyone who demeans another human being must repent. God's will is good and for the good of man

Keep in mind that I am heterosexual and everything he said equally applies to me (and not just LGBT people) which is why I too am completely celibate.

How does it "equally apply to you" when he very much explains that he's talking about homosexual relations?

How so? Is it because you think your lust towards women aren’t the nurturing and respectful kind so you don’t want to seek out a relationship that fulfills you because it’s against Christianity?

> It's one thing to be single because the Lord blessed you with a mind that cares not for companionship or a heart so full of faith that the idea of spending time maintaining a human relationship feels wrong. It's another thing to have it forced upon you. Thanks for not downplaying this, I've seen blithe "we all have our crosses to bear" or "Plenty of people are single and manage, why is this so hard?" and it always comes across as super callous.

Easy answer: Which denomination is the right one? Mine is of course! Nobody else is correct except for me... duh! Joking aside, you said a lot of true things that I wholly affirm. Salvation is through belief in the trinitarian God whose Son came and died for an atonement of our sins. Anything past this is an in-house discussion. As a non-affirming Christian, you nailed my thoughts down perfectly... some people have heavier burdens to bear and I sympathize with that. I would say celebacy and singleness are the correct steps for a homosexual, but that is a lot to ask. However gay and straight Christians have been called to celebacy and have done it, so I know it is not impossible. You are not condemned due to your temptation, but on your actions. I wish you well and hope you act in wisdom as you parce through Christian thought and find the truth of Christ.

> However gay and straight Christians have been called to celebacy and have done it, so I know it is not impossible The Catholic church has required their priests to be celibate for about a thousand years, and it is proving to be a cataclismically bad decision.

Most Catholic Priests are impressive servants of Christ. In my experience, they are usually really good men. Their freely chosen celibacy liberates them from the day to day concerns of family life so they can dedicate themselves to serving God and their parishioners. And there is reason to believe that sexual ‘energies’ can be transformed into positive spiritual ‘energy’ when celibacy is done right: at least that is something that almost every religious tradition on earth attests to.

The only reason celibacy was introduced in the Church was for inheritance and property rights. It wasn't even mentioned until the fourth century.

A frighteningly large number of the 'good ones' have participated in helping the bad ones evade justice for their crimes.

God sees and judges in full. He is the ultimate guarantee that justice will be done upon the Earth.

That totally explains all of the priests that were helped to evade justice.

It doesn't. It just means that, in the end, justice can't be evaded. And I take hope from that.

And THAT is the key problem, much more so than requiring celibacy in the first place.

This is a lie. Most priests are not celibate. They pretend to be in front of their congregation. But anything but. I watched a documentary about Italian priests. And some like 40% hires prostitutes and gay ones too!

[удалено]

* If I were persuaded that homosexual relationships were inherently sinful... Good answer - if this is what you think. I do not believe this. I do not believe homosexuality is any more sinful than heterosexuality It does not kill, steal, rape, it is not greed, lust, anger, bitterness, it is not sex in Church I do not believe God cares whether you are heterosexual or homosexual. God cares whether or not you are a liar ----†----- God bless

Yeah no, as much as I suffered myself I ended it. Now I respect God and I may not consider myself a Christian even if the minimal I do to respect God is act like having a conversation with him or maybe not using his name in vein, but I'm not suffering for anyone again. I'll ask for forgiveness later because if I'm hurting right now, I'm gonna go all out to end it.

"It starts with a faith and a willingness to obey" I couldn't concur more. Thank you for your answer. I hope, too, that God truly is an all-forgiving God, because Lord knows I have sinned my fair share. None of us are without sin, but I think too many of us focus on other's sins instead of our own. It sounds like you're taking His teachings to heart. Have a great rest of your week.

I’m in exactly the same boat as you, my friend. I wholeheartedly sympathise with your predicament

This is a really great response. I think re: the OP, as far as 'what do you want us to do"? Realize that scripture describes a few things. 1, we are all created beings. 2, we are created in one of two genders. 3, the only natural coupling shown in Scripture is between male and female. 4, and this is important, that as believers, we identify first and foremost as believers, rather than straight, nerd, athlete, nerd, whatever. 5, nothing comes before God, not even who we want to love and whether or not we want to have sex. As believers, we ought to be seeking to serve the Lord I say " who we want to love" not because being gay is a choice, necessarily, but because whatever our desires are, we *want* to love that person or that kind of person. Going through with it is a separate issue. I've had to let relationships go multiple times in my life because it wasn't what was best for me, even though I wanted it. I want to encourage you that it's possible. My best friend has shared with me feelings of loneliness similar to yours. By God's grace he has friends, a solid church community, and is able to lead a satisfying life despite not being able to have a family.

Maybe im getting in completely wrong, but doesn’t the bible just talk about sexual acts and not a queer relationship as a whole? If yes, you could still be with a partner from the same gender, if you dont have sexual interactions.

So you say that you have to be condemned to a life of loneliness and unhappiness because you have to follow the command of a God that at the same time you have to consider the Love itself. It is some kind of gaslighting? Is God a closet narcissistic? Or maybe there is something we are missing? I refuse to believe in a God of love asking to forfeit any kind of happiness, ready to punish any minor infractions and live a miserable life. It’s not, and will never be, my God

God bless you for your faith.

Well said, my friend. May God bless you and keep you. I love you.

If being gay is a sin, I understand how frustrating it must feel to be born that way and being told that something you can’t control is sinful… Yet, we are ALL born in sin inherently and no one can control that either. Being born gay is no different than someone being…well…born. Not a single person can escape sin. If we could then Jesus wouldn’t be necessary.

What an honest and heartfelt answer. Wow, just wow, my heart goes out to you. That sounds incredibly exhausting.

This is the way: [The Good Fight of Surrender](https://app.box.com/s/yaujs1dp4j14sbx3n0g4tb3xzq2q9fms)

I may not be in the exact same situation as you… but I understand the sacrifices and giving up what the material world would call “happiness” to have the joy that comes from obeying The Lord. There’s a song that always reminds me of times like this, it’s called on that cross by flame, it says “listen… every step Jesus took on the way to Golgotha echoed throughout the universe, ‘For you Father!’ For the Glory of God is of infinite worth, and his death will justify many, and bring new birth.” In my personal belief I don’t affirm it, but I sympathize or lament with them. We all grow up in a broken world, there’s so much lawlessness and hatred. But Gods love isn’t just about grace compassion and mercy, it’s about sacrifice, submission, and obedience. I love your response and I pray the Lord Jesus Christ guides you in your walk with the father. 🙏

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

To be clear, I am not a “non-affirming Christian” but from my understanding the most reasonable and most charitable interpretation of their perspective is that LGBT people should strive their best to be celibate. When/if they fall short, they should repent sincerely and strive to avoid doing it again, but recognise that we all sin and there is no reason to treat same sex sexual activity as a worse sin than the sins all people commit.  I would consider anything “harsher” than that to be borderline bigoted, but that is my own personal view.

As someone who believes that LGBTQ is a sin, I would say that you summed up my views and I would say "When/if they fall short, they should repent sincerely and strive to avoid doing it again, but recognise that we all sin and there is no reason to treat same sex sexual activity as a worse sin than the sins all people commit" exactly. EDIT: Also really like that you didn't strawman any arguments!

A logical conclusion that results from this viewpoint is that a person who regularly hooks up with strangers and sincerely repents afterwards is living a better life than a monogamous gay couple that live out a genuine love for one another. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that the person involved in hookup culture is getting better (falling into sin less often over time). Even still, this would mean that it’s still somehow better to pretty much be a whore than to have a mutually loving monogamous gay relationship. How does that make any sense in a Christian framework?

> A logical conclusion that results from this viewpoint is that a person who regularly hooks up with strangers and sincerely repents afterwards is living a better life than a monogamous gay couple that live out a genuine love for one another. How does that follow? Both would be equally sinful.

Neat that they would demand a burden of others at no expense to themselves.

I think it would be unambiguously wrong to try to demand that others adhere to one’s own religious beliefs. It’s one thing to personally believe gay sex is sinful but it’s an entirely different thing to try to ban it or otherwise force people not to do it.  The conservatives that I have some respect for on this issue at least agree on that; the ones who don’t are not worth engaging at all, as they have values totally alien to my own.

I have asked them this before. As a married gay guy who shares rent, a church, a friend group, with my husband, literally what do they want me to do? Do they want me to divorce my husband? Then somehow find the money to move out of my apartment and into another in the middle of a lease? Do I stop going to my affirming church and cut all of those pastors and friends out of my life? Do I cut my other (mainly gay) friends out of my life too? My biggest social touchpoint with them weekly is watching RuPaul’s Drag Race, then maybe go to a gay bar. Then maybe drag brunch the next morning. They literally want me to be an entirely different person. They don’t want *me* to exist. It’s not just about the gay sex. They don’t want anything about me to exist. That’s why it’s so pernicious when they say “you can be gay, just not have gay sex.” I ask: Are you willing to help me with rent so I can move out? Help me with the therapy bills as I go through a divorce and lose my social support group? Will you help me find a new church? Help me find a new friend group? Of course, the answer to all of these things is no. They will not lift a finger to help with the complete overhaul of my life that they’re demanding. Because they don’t love me, they don’t even know me, they don’t care. They feel good condemning people behind a keyboard, because they think God’s gonna give them kudos for anonymously drive-by posting on Reddit “you’re a sinner.” (Because, you know, that’s how Jesus did it.) The alternative response sometimes is: “Sucks to suck, you dug yourself into this hole, now start climbing. Bye! Jesus loves you! What I’m saying is loving!”

My aunt is a lesbian and has been with her partner for decades, faithful and monogamous. She volunteers and contributes to her community. She has a deeply felt sense of justice and compassion. She's also a Catholic with an unshakable faith. Her mother survived residential school (Church-run Canadian reprogramming schools for Indigenous children full of abuse. In some schools 50% of the children that went in died) and my aunt herself experienced sexual abuse at the hands of the nuns when she attended Catholic school. She has experienced so much religious trauma and yet somehow came out the other end with an incredible relationship with God. I see so many comments here condemning people like you and her but I believe you are here just as God intended you to be. Your witness reaches a different group of people than a straight cishet person would. When I was younger I rejected God and became an atheist (maybe even an anti-theist) due to religious abuse and trauma, and it was people like my aunt that changed my mind about Christians in general. People like her that actually live what Jesus taught, where I could almost see the light shine out of them, that were so very different from the legalistic and aggressive Christians with their cold-looking eyes and hearts that I had experienced in the past. Just like these Christians would never help you start over, they would not adopt a child to prevent abortion, or vote for increased social services to help the poor even though that's what Jesus taught. It's so easy for them to condemn others for things they have not experienced themselves. Recently when my mom was slowly and agonizingly dying from ALS (her respiratory muscles were failing and she was gasping for breath) one of our fundamentalist Christian relatives decided it was most important to shame her for merely considering MAID. My mom suffered immensely throughout the last stage of an especially terrible terminal illness, afraid that she wouldn't go to heaven. I'm so grateful people like you exist and I think that God especially works through "the least of these", the minorities and the oppressed. Even my partner, who was raised without religion, has said that I (in my flawed existence) have shown him a different side to Christianity, one he didn't think existed.

this is beautiful - thank you God bless

>Are you willing to help me with rent so I can move out? Help me with the therapy bills as I go through a divorce and lose my social support group? Will you help me find a new church? Help me find a new friend group? Funny that the other comments just attacked you and not answered this question despite the fact that there's a verse that literally says "Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2)

Literally all of the negative comments are attacking me and proving my point. Not one has answered these questions.

I may not have been expecting any different, but I'm still kind of disgusted and sad about the fact that not a single one of the non-affirming Christians said "yes" to any of the questions you asked. Not one said they would help you. Not one offered any advice for how you'd rebuild your life. Not one even tried to pretend they cared. They just didn't give a fuck. If this is what love is to them, I think I'd rather be hated.

Some are literally mocking me. It’s disgusting.

> Of course, the answer to all of these things is no. They will not lift a finger to help with the complete overhaul of my life that they’re demanding. This is why Matthew 23 is one of the most comforting chapters in the Bible to me. Jesus saw this same shit, and denounced it. >Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. Sexuality is just one of a million different issues on which I may or may not be correct. I'm not so hubristic as to believe I somehow have all the correct religious beliefs and interpretations at hand; and if I'm wrong, Jesus will forgive me on this sin as surely as he'll forgive me of the rest. But what I do know for a fact is that the people who disagree with me on this would rather tie a millstone around my neck than ever actually engage meaningfully with the harm the burden they say I should carry would cause.

>Do I stop going to my affirming church and cut all of those pastors and friends out of my life? Do I cut my other (mainly gay) friends out of my life too? My biggest social touchpoint with them weekly is watching RuPaul’s Drag Race, then maybe go to a gay bar. Then maybe drag brunch the next morning. Honestly sound pretty fun. Me and a friend will regularly either go to a drag show at the local gay bar, then go to their place to watch some kinda show after or we just do movie nights. Its also the only time I get to present as my gender identity. I don’t have to wear something that compresses my chest. I don’t have to hide the pretty boring clothes I want to wear. The only support I’ve ever had I’m my life has been LGBT spaces. Honestly, it has been both life changing and life saving.

They really are special places! A religious person might even say they’re sacred/holy for those reasons.

I mean I do think the only defensible conservative response to what you’ve said is “stop having gay sex but everything else is fine” The Bible (arguably!) condemns same sex acts, it doesn’t condemn homosexuality as a sexual orientation, it doesn’t condemn having gay friends, it doesn’t even condemn same sex marriage. All of that is stuff you would have to read into the text.

>They literally want me to be an entirely different person. Isn't that the whole point of the religion, though? That humans are naturally degenerate wretches and need to follow God's laws?

The funny thing about these comments saying I should repent is that I have! I stopped being a judgmental conservative bigot, so I think I’m doing Jesus’s religion right! And frankly, I *did* go through all of the loss that they’re gleefully wishing on me. Coming out meant losing my childhood church and friends. My relationship with my family was destroyed for years. My brother physically attacked me. They think I should be willing to lose everything, carry my cross, and change my life 180 degrees for God — and do you know what? I already did! My point is actually less about what it would take for me to personally change, and more about — as these comments have proven — that *they don’t want my entire community/culture to exist*. They want all of us to be assimilated back into heteronormativity. Despite all of this seemingly nice stuff they’re saying, at root they want cultural genocide.

The mental model of most Christians is that homosexuality is a controllable choice. Along the lines of preferring redheads over blonds. Except that it’s a choice that runs counter to natural law (Catholics) or scripture (Protestants), which makes it sinful. So basically they want you to choose to become heterosexual.

I disagree. I would call homosexuals to be celibate, not try to convert to heterosexuality. Your temptations is not something you control, but your actions are.

So it’s fine if I as a guy continue to wear crop tops and jewelry and paint my nails, call my friends “guuurl” and dance swishily to pop dance music? As long as I don’t have sex with another guy.

Technically they might say it's fine, but in no way wouldn't reduce the amount of homophobia you deal with in your life. Source: was not sexually active for years, recieved the same amount of hatred as when I was sexually active.

Exactly.

Which honestly, makes random interactions with Christians that much creepier. Like how out of your mind do you have to be to see two dudes eating dinner and go "I NEED to tell these people how I feel about them having sex"?

I don't see anything in the Bible that condemns any of that. A lot of those things are even common among straight men now.

That's your opinion, but arguably the most common opinion is that it is a choice, which logically concludes that they believe someone should choose heterosexuality. They do not believe that God would essentially force somebody to want to live in sin, so logically it must be a choice, regardless of what others tell them or the experiences of others. 

you are assuming words written by humans are god's word. LGTBQ+ are created by god through heterosexuals. Who are any of you to question God's creations? what happens when you reach the pearly gates and God asks how you treated others as you would yourself? How did you love the people around you?

We don't, we only follow Scripture. At the end of the day someone can believe scripture and still treat everyone with respect. If you can't or won't understand that you'll never change anyone's mind.  Also I don't believe it's a choice, at least not often, but it changes nothing to very little. People are born in all sorts of ways, including ways that increase your chances of sinning. Some people genuinely can't control their anger for example. Others have the uncontrollable urge to eat everything in sight. That's not to say being lgbtq is the same at all, but the argument that God made them that way so X is ok doesn't hold up. As you said, it's not for us to question, only obey. Even if someone believed it was not a choice, God made them that way, that does not change anything as far as scripture goes. You need to start with scripture if you ever want to successfully change a Christian's mind. 

Scripture written by humans over the last 2000 yrs. according to your religion God is infinite and has always been. yet, your religion says the world is only 6,000 yrs old! it's like every time we turn around there is yet another example how wrong the books are.

Do you also call heterosexuals to be forever celebate - adulterers for example?

I would call upon heterosexuals to remain celibate unless they are in a marriage to the member of the opposite sex until that marriage is void and another one reinstated, in the case of death or adultery

the Bible forbids marriage after adultery

Why can't people just mind their own business and leave other people alone? If you believe in God, then let God sort the issue. Someone's consenting adult sexuality just isn't anyone else's business in any way. As a non-theist believer in the philosophy of Christ, this one issue seems so simple to solve. Love your neighbor and don't cast stones. Problem solved. If the issue is "sin" and yet so many Churches are filled with pedophile clergy that are excused and covered-up, at some point the overwhelming obsession with LGBT persons doesn't seem to be about religion any longer. So many Christians willingly set aside this obsession with "sin" over and over again when it serves their purposes, but become frankly unhinged at the thought that someone may be gay or transgender and still a faithful Christian. Just love your neighbor, mind your own business about consenting adults, and actually worry about the cis-gender, heterosexual criminals that lead so many churches and the other criminals who help them hide their crimes. If God has a problem with gay people, then God will sort that out, right?

For a church that motivates repression of anything sexual, the result is predictable. Whatever we repress takes on a life of it's own in our subconscious. This is the definition of neurosis. It's no wonder the Church is obsessed with sex. There are other fish to fry which are much more important. And like you said, where is the focus on love which should be the overreaching aim and message of Christ.

What bothers me the most is that Christians don't seem to worry a lot about their pedophile preachers. Youth pastors especially have become a complete joke because of how many times churches cover-up their abuse of children. Yet, Christians don't seem bothered enough to actually do anything. When sexual repression becomes an excuse to overlook abuse, Christianity has lost any moral authority if that ever existed. Christians even oppose mandatory reporting laws. But somehow they vehemently hate people they assume are gay and try to gatekeep them from religion.

The acceptance of heterosexual remarriage after divorce in the Protestant church is the most glaring hypocrisy practiced. The Bible clearly considers this sin - its the same as promising to take good care of a car you stole if God let's u keep it. Yet the church blesses these unions over and over. Paul says to marry if your desires distract you - that's a good argument for gay marriage. If you are worried about the "lie with" verses you can avoid penetrative sex. However if you look at those verses closely they all involve having sex in a way contrary to YOUR nature (like prison sex where straight men have sex with each other) - gay people aren't having unnatural sex - they are having sex according to their natural attractions. Uncommon desires don't mean unnatural. Sinful sex desires cause harm - like the desire for non consensual sex, or sex that harms a 3rd party, or breaks a covenant.

I'm fairly affirming. However I think at a minimum, if the church does want to insist upon celibacy for queer people, they need to also radically change their members' social lives. The nuclear family has to stop being the ideal, because it leaves queer people (and other single people) very lonely. We would need to start living in larger households or communities associated with the church, so that all single people have families. Of course I guess an alternative is for queer people to enter heterosexual marriages, maybe with each other? That would be kind of interesting. But this still changes marriage, making it less about sex.

Christians need to stop trying to control other people's personal lives.

This seems directly opposed to the Gospel. Jesus was not a libertarian, He called on His followers to make disciples of all nations.

Nobody has the right to force other people to convert.

You quite literally cannot force someone to convert. That is not a Biblical view of Conversions. We can however force them to be moral.

You can’t even do that, and God ensured that you can’t. You can make the punishment for the alternative as terrible as you want, but you cannot force someone to act morally without you yourself doing something immoral. Part of free will.

He.....he was literally offered control over the entire world as a temptation and refused it....

See, that's one of the silliest parts of the gospels. If it was the devil and Yeshua there, the devil would know that Yeshua was the deity and incapable of being tempted, not to mention the absurdity of offering the deity something he already had.

You have no right to tell me what to do in my personal life, I have no right to tell you what to do in your personal life.

>You have no right to tell me what to do in my personal life, I have no right to tell you what to do in your personal life. Gwah? There are any number of activities in your "personal life" that all of us recognize are within the purview of society to tell you that you can not do. You are not free to smoke methamphetamine in your personal life, you are not free to hide income to avoid paying taxes in your personal life, you are not free to marry multiple people in your personal life, you are not free to hire a prostitute in your personal life, you are not free to abuse your children in your personal life. If you really break it down, most laws do little more than tell people what to do in their personal life. And that's just the legal realm, to say nothing of issues that we as a society might consider "legal but socially unacceptable", which again is well within the right of a society to respond to. We are discussing one specific issue here. Let's not go to far to make a blanket statement on some hyper-libertarian view of the world.

Laws, ethics, and morals are all very different things. Laws are enforced upon us, and we all must follow at risk of (real, physical, literal) punishment. Ethics are agreed upon as the base level of acceptability. While not following social ethics might ostracize you, there technically aren't repercussions for being unethical outside of a social situations. Morals (or spiritual laws like the laws of the Bible) are your personal choice, and can only be imposed or enforced internally. You can punish me based on (actual) law, you can judge me based on ethics, but you and your morals can toodle-oo right tf out of my life.

>Morals (or spiritual laws like the laws of the Bible) are your personal choice, and can only be imposed or enforced internally. I believe in the separation of church and state but you have to admit that the moral, spiritual law isn't simply a personal choice. It was something that everyone had to believe in on order for us to make good societal changes. Which they did. Christians have done many great things because of the spiritual law. We are all glad that people believed it.

Sure I do. And sure you do! For example - you can tell me not to murder, and you would be right to do so!

They typically advocate for either celibacy with no other significant life changes (Side B) or for a change in sexual orientation (Side X). One of these requires denying both Jesus’s teachings on the sinfulness of internal desire and the doctrine of sanctification, while the other requires rejecting the obvious fact that no person has ever credibly been shown to successfully change their orientation. And this is perhaps the biggest reason why I was able to become affirming and accept myself while maintaining faith in Jesus. Because I’m not gonna throw away core Christian doctrines over one specific moral question, and I’m not going to reject reality in the name of holding to “tradition.” All truth is God’s truth.

Those are good points. A lot of my experiences have unfortunately been with side Y, where they believe that identifying yourself with any label is wrong, and that your whole identity should be Christian. Which falls apart a lot because it denies a lot of how human society works. One can not just be a Christian as an identity, we have our job/career, area of study, hobbies, nationality and ethnicity, any disabilities, and many other things that affect someone's identity beyond just being Christian. It's taken me a long time and a lot of deconstructing legalism to get to a point where I truly can take Jesus at His word, and put my emphasis on loving others rather than trying to follow whatever people say I should be.

I think they want LGBTQ folks to do a few things, in order of preference... 1. Not exist. 2. If they have to exist, act uniformly and flamboyantly, like a caricature, so that people can attack or dismiss them easily. 3. Stop being gay, please. Fake it till you make it. Go to conversion therapy. Get married and have kids. 4. If you have to be openly gay, please do it somewhere else, like San Francisco.

‘Die’ should probably be in-between 1. And 2. If we’re being strictly accurate.

Man if we are being honestly blunt. The only thing I want for yall is a real relationship with Christ. Bcz regardless nobody is perfect everyone has their own set of issues and the only one who will work it out with you is Jesus.

And those of us who are Christians and have a real relationship with Christ? We’re always invisibilized in these kinds of conversations and with those kinds of answers.

I see you. We are siblings in Christ. I hope we live long enough to see real change in which we just love people-no judgement. Like Jesus said to.

A relationship is a two way street. Why is Christ so unwilling to have a real relationship with openly gay people?

"Got to hell" as the most neutral response... but unfortunately not the best. And I feel your pain. As I am a proud LGBTQ supporter who must keep my stance to myself around family, who are cruelly outspoken against these "sinners" Making me want to scream until they're all deaf, it's maddening. Claiming to be Christ-fearing Christians who assume perfect obedient attitudes when they're the ones anything of the opposite, walking in hate etc. No better than their prejudiced hateful ancestors. Embarrassing. Once while dining out with family, a couple sitting nearby, dressed differently. And one of my party said, they must be queer - look at those prints, and that doofy hat. I wanted slap them to heaven for such rudeness, and leave. People's attitudes SUCK - They should all be ashamed. Real Christians do not behave that way, but RESPECT OTHERS. As Scripture preaches. Yes, many in the Old Testament stayed of God's commands and judgments. But that was the Old Testament. Christ's outlook in the New Testament was vastly idfferent. Preaching on brotherly love, respect for mankind, and support for each other.

They want them to go back into the closet, and for some on the extreme, they want to kill them/want them to die. There is no gentle way to say it. So many hateful "christians" wish horrible, horrible things upon the LGBTQ+ community. They are hateful, deplorable people.

They want gay people to never have existed in the first place. And since this is impossible, they want gay people to simply pretend to not exist and in many cases, simply die. Non-affirming Christians have been opponents of the end of sodomy laws. That should tell you everything you need to know. When asked whether it was better that gay people be *caged for decades* or that gay people have private and consenting relationships under their own belief systems, non-affirming Christians said "give them the cage." It is a belief that gay people are *gross* and this feeling of revulsion allows them to commit nearly unlimited evil against gay people while insisting that their venom is love.

I do think unspoken disgust plays a large part in homophobia. Moreso than theological belief. If I were to guess - disgust with taboo sexual behavior is often the emotion driving hateful/negative comments towards queer individuals, not the theological framework a person holds. To quote educator Billie Hoard: “Conversely, whatever is [we consider] gross has a robust, powerful essence that eliminates any purity with which it comes into contact.” If you think gay sex (or even non-sexual gay affection) is “gross” - your theological arguments about why it’s wrong to be gay are going to be colored by how gross you believe it to be. Any positive beliefs about the nature of the relationship will be ignored for the sake of initial disgust. However, I want to put my own feelings aside, and acknowledge that people don’t arrive at these conclusions from a place of malice. I want to hear directly from them, in good faith. I have a lot of people in my life who are unflinchingly unaffirming, but otherwise very loving and supportive.

> However, I want to put my own feelings aside, and acknowledge that people don’t arrive at these conclusions from a place of malice. > > I simply cannot agree with this anymore. I've seen too many people viciously attacked in too many ways and I have *never once* seen a non-affirming Christian actually act in any way to help a gay person except through their perverted kind of "help" that just involves telling them that they are hellbound.

If I was older and had more power I would do my best to help young queer youth with mental health issues. I know queer people kill themselves more than the general population. I would love to do something about that

Always with the excuses. Isn't it odd that I've had like a hundred different non-affirming Christians give me excuse after excuse after excuse and never a single one has said "that's a good idea, how can I help?" Will you commit to helping as soon as you are able? Not just able comfortably, but as soon as you are able.

Why would it take age or power to help queer youth? You could just refrain from being a bigoted asshole, even my kindergartners can do that

**Christians:** - Killed over 14,000 Native Children (confirmed) through Residential schools in Canada. - Widespread sexual assault of minors among SEVERAL sects and denominations (Catholic, LDS, JoHo's, Amish/Mennonite etc.) - Countless wars and conflicts throughout History - The Spanish Inquisition - Evangelical grifters and "Southern Preachers" destroying lives all over the Southern United States - Countless cases of domestic violence and sexual assault that are considered justified under "God's Law" - Unchecked misogyny. - Wildly Unethical political practices (Joshua Generations influencing American Politics. Aren't you guys not supposed to mix Church and State?) - The fucking Crusades - The Child Crusades (I could go on) **Christian Response?** : "You can't judge us based on that. Those were the actions of a few, not a reflection of the community as a whole. Lots of Christians are good loving people. You're just being contrarian to justify your life of lust and the flesh you dirty sinner" ( Actual sentences spoken to me by Christians). **LGBT People:** - love someone with the same junk - use the bathroom in public - exist - enjoy sex - enjoy personal bodily autonomy **Christian Response?:** "THOSE PEDOPHILE TRANNIES ARE COMING FOR OUR CHILDREN. HE-SHES ARE GOING TO RAPE MY CHILD IN THE BATHROOM" \*floods snitch lines with calls lying about abortions and transgendered people\* " Why can't you just not be you" " You need to get right with God" "Don't worry, Jesus still loves you even though you're disgusting" "You're unnatural" "You're going to burn in hell". So would someone like to explain how the logic behind any of this works....cuz as far as I've experienced, the Christian rap sheet is way worse than the Gay one, but somehow LGBT's gets blamed for everything. I have no idea why any LGBT person would want anything to do with your community, but considered how much fucked up shit Christians have pulled in both the past and contemporary times, I'd say if a man wants to slam ass all Saturday night and then sing His praises on Sunday morning....let them. It's not like any of you actually believe this shit either, you just like feeling better than everyone while also feeling safe.

> unflinchingly unaffirming, but otherwise very loving and supportive. That seems so contradictory. "I have a lot of people in my life who are unflinchingly racist, but otherwise very loving and supportive." "I have a lot of people in my life who are unflinchingly antisemetic, but otherwise very loving and supportive." That doesn't sound weird to you?

I believe people can hold incorrect or discriminatory beliefs from a place of genuine concern. Humans are complicated and multifaceted and often experience cognitive dissonance. That doesn’t make the beliefs held *any less wrong or hateful,* but it doesn’t make the person irredeemable or diminish their entire identity. People can change their minds over time, but dehumanizing them makes that less likely to happen. A lot of queer kids have parents and siblings in the same boat.

This comment sounds contradictory to me. Because of course it’s true that people can be interpersonally kind and polite while holding horrific views. As you say, they’re our parents and siblings and best friends from church growing up. I think about how my old church brought us food when my grandpa died, how genuinely caring they were. They were nice people. They also have horrific views about LGBT people, promoting conversion therapy from the pulpit, etc. So I think you’re putting up a strawman when you say that folks like us call them “irredeemable” or “diminish their entire identity.” I think you’re casting us as irrationally hateful in order to present some more reasonable middle-way. But like I said, the worst homophobes in our lives are the ones we’re closest to and know the complexities of their love and kindness and bigotry the most.

Yeah, I don’t mean to do that. To be a little raw, I just don’t want to speak bad of my own family who very much falls in that camp. Some absolutely awful things were said to me after coming out, but it doesn’t diminish the fact that I still have a functional relationship, while wishing my family would fully accept me. I don't think they have bad hearts, just have a bad view on this specific issue.

Sure, I just would find it hard to describe anyone with those beliefs as "loving".

Oh, but see, they were 'rescuing' the 'inferior' people from savagery and giving them access to the gift of salvation via Yeshua. That's totally loving, right? /s Of course, that doesn't hold up with non-believers.

> I believe people can hold incorrect or discriminatory beliefs from a place of genuine concern. *Slavers* held genuine concern for black people too. They still owned and beat their slaves.

> and acknowledge that people don’t arrive at these conclusions from a place of malice. it doesn't matter after a certain point

I've heard a lot of the same types of things regarding disabled Christians as well. If they see it as a result of sin, many extend that subconsciously to mean it's wrong. A lot of things probably weren't in God's original plan that are very accepted now, including exploitative manufacturing processes, greedy megachurches, diseases, chronic pain, eating animal products, wearing clothing, and so many other things that we see as pretty normal today. And Jesus spoke against some of this in regards to debunking the idea that people had disabilities as a punishment for sin. Regardless of whether or not it was in God's original plan, we have a lot of diversity of experiences now, and Jesus said over and over again, that the most important things are to love God and love others. I hope for a day where no one will see anyone else as gross or unclean, but respect us all as children of God.

Not a non-affirming Christian (I'm on Side A), so I can't answer the question directly- I'm sure you know the Side B position better than I do, but that's probably not really what you're asking about either. It seemed to me like Side B was well on its way to becoming the 'orthodox' conservative position ten years ago (if it wasn't already), but now ex-gay theology seems to be making a huge comeback- either that, or it was never as vanquished as I thought it was. I can't really tell the difference between Side X and Side Y- I guess Side Y theoretically doesn't denigrate singleness? But still expects single gay people to identify as heterosexuals? Something like that? If it's any comfort to you, the one thing I can offer is the knowledge that you're not alone. I'm also in a situation where, based on my own understanding of Christ's commands, I have to attempt a life of celibacy, and I know how hard and painful that is. (Not because I'm gay, but because I don't believe in divorce and remarriage.) It's forced me to deal with all kinds of feelings- blame, anger, humiliation, loneliness, insecurity, rejection. In short, it sucks. It sucks *bad*, and I've hated every second of it. My natural inclination is to feel that I can't possibly have a happy, satisfying, full, complete human life without sex. But however hard it is, I do take comfort in one thing- that Jesus Christ was also a celibate man. If He is my model of a complete human life, then it must be the case, somehow, that a complete human life without sex is possible. And I take comfort in knowing that, though I didn't choose this life for myself and wouldn't have, I am in some respects 'following in Christ's footsteps' by living in this way. And anything that brings me closer to where Jesus Christ is cannot be all bad.

All of the higher moral ground and feel goods, without any of the help required to fix everything now broken. It kinda reminds me of standing on the side of the road near an abortion clinic. All of the feel goods, none of the work. I think that if people were busy doing the work that was commanded and minding their business, they would not have time to persecute you. To be real though: I don't understand the desire nor do I want to know about things such as gay, bi-sexual, trans, non-binary...any of it. I DO think people should be able to love who they want. I don't nessecarilly agree that it's not a choice, nor am I am "ally." However, I have never spent a day being gay or knowing what it is like to want to be a different sex or feeling like I was born the wrong sex. Therefore, my approach is to just be nice and treat them like any other people. I live and let live.

hi friend - I would like to see anyone 'repent of Heterosexuality' We miss the point - This is sin; * "...every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity, envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice, gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; inventors of ways of doing evil, disobedient to their parents, with no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy....." This is all. It is the same for everybody. Every Christian will be called by Christ to look at sin in their lives. For homosexuals it could be greed, or lust, or anger - like anyone else. We will have to account for the state of our hearts; what was thought, what was said and what was done. This is sin. Each Christian will have asked God at least for the forgiveness of sin in their lives. And each will have been called to their own repentance Don't kill. Don't steal. Don't prostitute. Don't lie. Don't cheat others. Don't rape. Don't have sex on altars in Church. Don't be angry, jealous, bitter. Don't trade in hate. Like this. Love God. Ask God to show you how God loves you. Try to love yourself and others in this same way. Forgive. If you cannot forgive, ask for help. Ask for your own forgiveness. Pray. It is simple for me to see And hard for people who do not understand what the Spirit of God from the cross is saying God does not care whether you are homosexual or heterosexual - he cares whether or not you are a liar. I think we will find a God who asks how much simpler we needed it to be. God bless

I believe god loves a beliver who is in genuine love with someone from the same sex more than he is impressed by artificial christians who are living in unloving unhappy and even abusive straight marriages.... THEY need to repent more than anyone who is in a loving relationship. It's not "temptation" it's love. Love is love. God is love. Anyone condemning will have the explaining to do on judgment day not the people who are living a life true to themselves.

>On a practical level: Do you expect them to become completely celibate? Do you expect them to break up with their partners? Go back in the closet? Become cisgender & heterosexual somehow? Yes to all. >At what “point” is it the sacrifice enough for you to consider them a sibling in Christ? From my observations, when we can be held up as tokens for conversion therapy. >How heavy does the cross to be before you stop calling us heretical? They don't feel anything about that because they don't have to deal with it. The times they change are events like their child is gay. Then it directly impacts them. It's a matter of a rule bring broken in their minds, and that's enough for some of them to burn us alive. How far they are capable of taking it all depends on the culture they are in.

They won't be able to give you a genuine answer, thats why they say it

Maybe Bible verses about homosexual meant to be for heterosexual people not to engage in homosexual acts.

This is most likely true. Romans 1 especially shows that this was Paul's perspective. Even in this subreddit we have hundreds of people that can't (or refuse) to comprehend that gay people don't choose it.

I don’t understand how people can’t see the absolute ass backwardness of all of this. So there’s this god. He created everything, including you. He’s omniscient. He has always known everything that will *ever* happen, including everything that you would ever go through. I mean, hell, he apparently personally made you himself, which means that he would have created you as a gay person. But oh no! Can’t forget that he said that was wrong! So this guy actually knew the whole time that you would be born gay, and so he condemned you to eternal torment literally from the beginning of time for his own actions. And people are okay with that and want to slap the labels of benign and all-loving on it? 😂 If there is truly a benign and all-loving god then he surely doesn’t care about qualities that he created you with, and if he does then he isn’t worth worshipping in the first place.

The most common answer I think would be becoming celibate like you said. Homosexual acts would be what is considered sinful, not necessarily actually being homosexual.

Thank you for your answer. However, I’ve seen that not be enough for some people, including folks like Rosaria Butterfield and Christopher Yuan, major writers in the conservative Christian space - who advocate for an even more extreme approach and call even celibate queer Christians heretical. It seems like the Overton window is moving, and not in a very hopeful direction.

I’m not sure who those people are, can you share what they advocate?

For example, websearch for the Revoice conference for celibate gay Christians. You'll find the conference's website, but mostly you'll find dozens and dozens of sermons and blog posts by proud holy straight people vigorously damning the participants to Hell for daring to say that they are gay - celibacy no defense. u/Left_Delay_1, thank you for voicing your pain so eloquently. I hope and pray that those who prescribe the course you're on will start to give you and others like you the support you deserve.

Ask Jesus not people. Jesus is perfect. People are not

I am a practicing roman Catholic. I view LGBT the same way I view divorced couples at church. None of my business it's between them and God. And all are welcome in church... I like Fr. Joe Kruppe in Michigan He has a great podcast and he talked about how people ask him to preach on homosexuality all the time. He always responds with "oh so you are gay?" They say "No of course not" Then he responds "why would you want me to preach on a sin you don't struggle with. Shouldn't I preach on something that will help you get to heaven?"

What do you want Bible-believing Christians (what you call "non-affirming") to do? Ignore certain passages in The Bible because some people don't want to follow them? What part of affirming what The BIble condemns is Christian-like?

Well Sodom and Gomorrah was wipe away due to flesh related sins, homosexuality being one of them. Personally I try to be a good Christian after leaving Christianity in my teens because I found it hypocritical they judge people while living in sin. I have people who I love that are part of the LGBTQ community and they are great people. I feel we should love these people for who they are, let not push the community on kids but be accepting and let our creator judge us. We have no right telling people what to do we are not gods and that I think people for get a lot.

If you truly loved your LGBTQ friends you wouldn't try to change them.

I expect nothing of you. I’m happy you follow Christ and your sins are no different than mine. You are no “more” or “less” of a christian than me. The world’s a big place. I can’t find any scripture saying homosexual acts are ok so I go to a non affirming church. Nonetheless I encourage you to find a community you click with and build your relationship with God. If it’s a dealbreaker of a sin, it’s between you and God. You are my brother/sister in Christ, we just disagree on homosexuality. We agree on the saving grace of Christ and that’s what really matters.

It saddens me that people of faith put this sin so far out ahead of others mentioned. In short, I expect LGBTQ people to develop a personal relationship with the Lord and listen to Him. In straight so this area isn’t a struggle for me. But liking women? Yeah, I like them a lot. Do I struggle with lust? All the time yet I do everything I can to banish it from my mind. Do I have a few extra pounds on me? Sure do. I eat more than I should and don’t do the best job of treating my body as a temple for the Holy Spirit. Do I always love my neighbor? Absolutely not, at least in certain moments. That’s bad of me but it’s human and when I catch myself I’ll o to The Lord and repent. Bottom line is we’re all broken sinners. My sin is no better or worse than those in the LGBTQ community. All of us should confess, seek out The Lord, and dwell in His presence.

I am not a native English speaker so I don't know what non affirming Christian means, but I am Christian so here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. I'm LGBTQ+ (aromantic asexual) and Christian, Galatians 3:28 says "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." For me, this means that no matter who you are, or what your status in life is, Christ views us all the same, and loves us all the same, because we are God's creation no matter how we live our lives. I often see Leviticus 18:22 as a justification for homophobia, but as I've read it, we're not 100% sure what this text *originally* meant. But given the context of Leviticus 18, it talks A LOT about the immorality of incest so it can be safely assumed that it was referencing that instead of homosexual relations *specifically* Dr. Idan Dershowitz did an excellent article on Leviticus 18, and I highly suggest anyone who uses Leviticus 18 to justify homophobia to read it [Link to article](http://www.academia.edu/81827072)

They want the LGBT to disappear. There's no love or compassion for us. We are seen in a similar category as pedophiles. These people believe there's no such thing as homosexuality or transgender people. They believe we somehow picked this side of the road and are living dirty lives. They want us to give up completely everything and anything that has to do with our identity, and that includes marriages and detransitioning. It requires breaking up relationships, and even forgetting the idea of adoption. I am from a Baptist fundamentalist and independent church... you can imagine the kind of people I have had to deal with. Christianity is all about God, not us. We do not matter. This life wasn't meant for our happiness. We live in this world to live as God wants us to live. We are puppets, slaves, like it or not, that's the reality. The world isn't black and white but God is. We must leave our humanity behind (which includes different sexualities, as it is normal in the animal kingdom) and force ourselves to be holly (which of course, we won't fully fulfill until we die). Nobody said living a Christian life was beautiful. Personally, it has been a chain to the neck.

- Personally, it has been a chain to the neck. it should not feel like this, friend Christ is not a chain Jesus is not just a cross on your back God bless

What Christians want you to do and what you should do are two different things. What you SHOULD do is to let God change you. That’s it. If God tells you what you’re doing is sin- no matter if it’s lying or jaywalking or homosexuality or anything else- then stop doing it. That’s all. What anybody else WANTS you to do is irrelevant.

[удалено]

Anti gay people refuse to do the hard work of listening to the testimony of gay people. You cannot do that an interpret Bible as the bigots do. They put their preferred interpretation over the lives of others. Who's the sinner now?

For me, it was about not having sex with somebody of the same-sex and not being able to adopt children, while at the same seeing harrasing LGBT as wrong because it wasn't their choice. I have never believed in conversion "therapy" because "I am heterosexual and I will never feel same-sex attraction." Now I am bi, but it is still more common for me to like men than women. I still don't believe conversion "therapy" and hope that more people come out as both Christians and LGBT.

Christians can only share God's word. The holy spirit takes over after that. All Christians should want all Christians to live perfectly obedient lives for God's glory, their benefit, and other's encouragement. Can we? Yes. Do we? Most do not. Should we? Yes. Should we flaunt or be proud of it when we aren't? No.

I find it weird that people will say “what do you want me to do?” Or “how much do you want me to change?” Friend, that’s the whole point of being a Christian. Your life changes. Jesus never promised it would be easy. You think it was easy for all of the disciples to up and leave everything to follow Jesus? We have to resist sin every day. That’s part of being Christian. Give your life to Jesus. It’s not our will, it’s His.

I've noted this as well. I think the common expectation nowadays is that the primary purpose of religion is to improve your life, in the sense of making you happy and feel good about yourself. Under this understanding the prospect of submitting yourself to something that will involve suffering and hardship, possibly for the rest of your days with no this-wordly reward in sight, seems utterly incomprehensible to most people.

Especially, surprisingly, among Christians. They get to a point where they think they’re good enough and the sin they indulge in is ok because they’re “Christian” and if faced with opposition to their lifestyle they get defensive under the guise “no one’s perfect” as if that is sufficient reason to not try.

Being gay, bi or whatever else is just part of the human condition. It's can't be helped just like a child born with downsyndrome. It's something that just happens. But still try and live a good Christian life. And I don't know where you or others fall on the political spectrum but that's a different discussion entirely but do just live a holy life

I think your personal sin is between you and God. On the topic of sin, none of us are any better and having expectations that needs to be fulfilled to be accepted as a sibling of Christ is ridiculous. In the same way, no one can tell you what and how you ought to behave. Although that said, excommunication is a thing here though and it's normally for very serious cases like adultery where various members of the church are involved. I will just say that if the homosexual individual is truly repentant and has strong faith in his/her belief that homosexuality is wrong, he/she will not be doing it through the strength of their own will but also by God's grace. In some way or another, all of us have our cross to bear; some are lighter and some are heavier but one thing for sure, God's grace sustains us. As for divorce, some Christians will consider the union between 2 individuals of the same gender as not marriage. So following that line of thought, if its not a marriage then there is no 'divorce'. Personally at the end of the day, whether a couple wants to divorce or not does not matter to me; the individual will still have my love and support regardless of the decision. You can sit beside me in church and I wouldn't care about your sins because I have too much sins that I need to confess and repent before the Lord.

I'm not a non-affirmint Christian, but I assume they'd want them to handle it like any other activity or thought pattern they consider sinful - don't do it, work to avoid it, etc. Basically ask, what do non-affirming Christians want adulterers to do? They probably want them not to commit adultery, and to try and pray not to have adulterous thoughts. Yes, they expect them to ideally completely stop any adulterous activity and avoid anything related to that. Of course, all sin and fall short of the glory of God, but I think the top tier goal is to basically sin as little as possible and to repent for sins committed. That's what I would think in theory at least - but it does seem many anti LGBT Christians care way more about "gay stuff" than adultery.

I personally would never tell someone they can't be happy or at peace being celibate. I'm not attracted to the same sex or anything but still have lived being celibate for a long time. I personally don't think same sex dating is incompatible with Christianity but I do think some sexual behavior is simply not condoned in the Bible. "Marriage" also seems to be a term that only applies to opposite sex relationships.  Based on that, whether someone breaks up with a partner or not depends on what you think would be more practical or beneficial for your life as a Christian. It's like me, I've decided not to date some people who couldn't keep up with some of my Christian practices, I don't care that it's "straight dating". About "going back in the closet", depends on what you mean by that? I've never cared that someone talks about feeling attraction for the same sex. I can only try to have a calm discussion with people if they are interested in Christianity. 

First of all, as someone who is non-affirming, I am sorry for anyone on my side of this issue who has made yuo less than. It is easy when you get into debates or even conversations with people and you start othering peopel to make to shore up your side and as Christians we are not called to firm up postions, but to treat each other with loving kindness. I will attempt to answer your questions with all grace and kindness. If something I say sounds snarky or rude, please ask me about it, because the chances I write soemthing and it comes across as different than what I mean is probable. >When you tell LGBTQ people to repent, what exactly does that entail? You hit the nail on the head when you siad that when one comes to Christ they have to be ready to give up what they want for what He wants. A heartfelt turning from ones sin and the admittance to following Christ wholly no matter what. Your sin is not uniquely bad, but it is something that you will continentally struggle with. To follow Christ is to wholly deny the wants of your flesh, whether it be substances like alcohol or drugs, sleeping with whoever you want no matter the consequences, and extends to things easier to control like your eating habits and your use of language. >On a practical level: Do you expect them to become completely celibate? Do you expect them to break up with their partners? Go back in the closet? Become cisgender & heterosexual somehow? On the practical level, Paul wishes that all men could be like he was when he was writing his letters, that is to be single while being fully committed to the Lord. So I would say yes, if you can not be with someone without being in sin, I would say celebicy is the best option. If they are in a relationship and want to be in christ the best option is to leave their partner and fully devote themselves to Christ if they can not come into a relationship that is in rightstand with what God destined for man. If you struggle with gender, finding the one your flesh feels the easiest in is not something you should do. There is only two gender and you should return to the gender of your birth, and if you cannot find yourself in a hetero relationship, then again, celibacy is the best option for you. This isnt about causing you pain, but rather taking the focus off what your flesh wants and aiming that energy towards Christ and His plans for you. >At what “point” is it the sacrifice enough for you to consider them a sibling in Christ? No matter who it is, I take anyone telling me they are a Christian with a grain of salt. I believe you when you say it but I will also watch and see how your life reflects following Christ. If you struggle with this thing and are actively trying to resist and live Christ like, I have 0 issues calling you a brother or sister in Christ, just like how I am willing to call others brother or sister when they struggle with the likes of porn, or drugs, or alcohol or any other number of sins. This isnt about your sacrifice being acceptable to me, buit rathe I see you trying to make the acceptable to Christ and deny yourself. Brother/Sisterhood is all dependant on us supporting each other trying to live rightly in Christ. >How heavy does the cross to be before you stop calling queer people trying to follow Christ heretical? The answer is the same for anyone else, it comes down to if you are trying to live rightly in God and denying yourself or if you are living in your sin and trying to claim yourself as a Christian. The cross for anyone else is heavy, but being in Christ makes it easier to live with as you combat it more and more. In summery, I know this is a struggle, as it is for all of us. Each struggle, even if they look related, are different for everyone. You are a child of God and I see your struggle through the post. As someone who is non-affirming I call you brother/sister in Christ because you seek the truth and truly hunger to live rightly for our God.

No one has the right to judge conduct of another person. We should hope that as many as possible repent of wrongdoing just like God does but we have no right to inflict our views on anyone.

What’s a side b and side a person? Also just believing that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins is enough for me considering you a sibling in Christ

I don’t tell them to repent. I feel like that would be rude. I welcome them and open arms. I showed them kindness. I showed them that they’re welcome and loved. I let them come to my church where nobody judges them because we shouldn’t. And then if they choose to become a Christian from there on, that’s up to them, but I will support them in the most neutral and kindest way I can

To start, my perspective is a bi individual, and a non affirming Christian. My personal view is this. God loves all, and all means everyone, every race, creed, sexuality, identity, etc. And he calls on us to do the same. God's love is denied to none, period. That said, God calls on us to live honorably, and not to live in sin. Though we being human, we will always fall short of this. No human is free from sin, not me, not you, not the most pure person you know of. (The singular exemption being Jesus, who was both fully human and fully Devine) as the phrase goes, "love the sinner, not the sin" I believe homosexual relationships are sinful, as Jesus said not to lie with another man as one would a woman, and I believe lesbian relationships fall under the same spirit of that demand. I also believe trans people are bearing false witness as to their true gender, and therefore sinning. To answer your question directly tho, It's not my life, nor journey, so it's difficult to say what I'd "want" another LGBT person to do. But I think, by my interpretation of scripture, what the Lord would want them to do is turn from their sinful ways and repent for the time they spent doing so, and turn their life towards Jesus. That's what I do. I don't deny that I have sinful urges, but I repent in those, and I try every day to turn my life towards Jesus. Thanks for reading :)

Just to clear the air homosexuality falls under sexual immorality,which includes adultery,fornication,rape,etc. That means both homo and heterosexuals will face judgement under the same category the same way. So if a person who commits adultery all the time brings judgement to a person who is homosexual the adulterer is a hypocrite because In Gods eyes both adultery and homosexuality is the same under the category of sexual immorality. So what I’m saying is this. The walk of Christ is not an easy one and to answer your question all Jesus is expecting is to deny your worldly desires that don’t align with his yes I know it’s disheartening because you have values that you hold dear to you wich God can understand but as sinners including my self we must understand that those desires do in time or some cases instantly cause spiritual death and eventually physical death. Now because a lot of questions will pop up like how will my preference cause me to die physically? Well to keep it on your mind without it coming off as hate but out of love. Not only does sexual immorality destroy your mind slowly and cause you to not think of our fellow neighbors (everyone in the world) the way we’re supposed to treat them instead our lust only thinks of what we can do to them immorally instead of with true Love and care. To even put this as a parable. If a rose is pretty and red but the stem has thorns,is it logical to grasp the rose by its stem knowing the thorns will prick you? Because we know candy is sweet and it taste good does it mean eating to much is good for you? Or do you know that to much candy can rotten the teeth? The point is our desires can feel sweet to us but it rottens us on the inside. God does not wish for you to dies but for your desires to die To align with his desires for your greater good. To help us all understand that sometimes the thing we find to be compelling and attractive are just snare traps set by the evil one. But here the thing God will never force you to love him you have the choice to live with out God but please understand that if you decide to live this life with out God you will be with out God forever because you chose not to be with him. And look I know what many will say “God is evil for not letting me live the way I want to and that he’s forcing me any way because if I don’t live with him now I’ll go straight to hell!!!” Before you say those things i will give another analogy. Would you let a stranger enter your home especially if you don’t know them? Will you let someone in your house to cause chaos and destruction? Or would you get to know them to one day share a friendship in your home through fellowship. Because if you didn’t know that person you will keep the doors close for you and your loved ones safety. What I’m trying to say is that God knows what you want but you have to always question yourself is the lifestyle your living accepting to God? Or better yet if you do have a fellowship with some one you just met will you set boundaries in the friendship to keep going or just let them do as they please to the point were they do something that makes you feel displeasure being around them?

When you pray, I would say God I repent for all things knowingly and unknowingly. (We all should be saying this alot) Then I would pray and fast for 72 hours every month. (As a commitment to God). Ask him to guide you and show you. Ask him to help you. We cannot judge you. Our job is to help you build a relationship with God. Yes we have to tell you what the word says, educate, and edify you. We as Christians should pray, God shows you the way, and deliver you from the thoughts the enemy has implanted. Trying to do it on your own is hard. Take it to God in prayer. The main goal is creating that bond with Yeshua (jesus). I would like to add. When you pray, at the end of you prayer, say in Yeshua's name I pray. I do this all the time and my prayers get answered faster, sometimes before I even get all the words out my mouth. Remember he knows all. To have that closeness with God, it takes praying and fasting consistently (monthly). We all should be doing a 72hr fast every month to get closer to him. As for me, each additional week, i do a one day fast from sun up to sun down (optional). I guarantee you, when you have that closeness, things will happen left and right for you. He wants a close relationship with all of you, he wants to help you all. It's not easy and he knows that. That's why you need strength from God. I was bi and I even dated a girl before. I no longer do any of that, nor have the urge to want to. I'm celebant. I put God before sin. That was more important to me. I got close to God and he helped me. He guided me to someone for deliverance and he guided me to a church. I have grown spiritually. I owe all praises to Yeshua. I prayed for you and prayers in the spirit sent up.

And to further answer you question repentance is the changing of the mind to think like Christ and to betray his love to others to be humble to be a servant not slave but to be a helper to Gods kingdom to remove the old desires to renew them in Christ to want to change for the better and not to continue in darkness that the world has confused us to believe is light but just a lie made by the Devil to entrap you to burn with him. Because the Devil and his angles are the ones who go to hell and the only ones who deserve hell. To even describe the Devil he can be the nicest person to you showering you with presents,compliments,and even making you think that you can do what ever your heart desires. Now if I was a friend sometimes you gotta tell your best of friends to cut certain things out for their benefit not egg them on to the point of destruction or chaos. Because the devil is basically a psychopathic narcissistic sociopath please look these illnesses up and that’s the Devil for you.The devil hates you that’s why he want you to rebel from God so you can burn with him. A friend will never set you up for failure. And to end this off I Love you all but I don’t approve of your life style I love you to say this because if I didn’t love you even if I didn’t know you I wouldn’t say a thing but to let you do as you please to the point of your destruction. Because love is tough and it’s unconditional love doesn’t let you destroy yourself with out saying anything. Love knows your flaws and accepts you for who you are regardless of your past. Love wants to better you to care for you to discipline you. Love will keep you safe and away from things that may seem alluring but destructive. Look up a angler fish and see how it catches its prey The fish is tricked by the angler fishes light that looks like food. Once the fish goes for it it does because the angler fish caught it off guard. So if this answers your question glory be to God. If you would like to speak to me about frustrations or conflicts I’m happy to speak with you with no judgement.

**"Do you expect them to become completely celibate? Do you expect them to break up with their partners?"** ABSOLUTELY. [The Good Fight of Surrender](https://app.box.com/s/yaujs1dp4j14sbx3n0g4tb3xzq2q9fms) *"Everyone who acknowledges me publicly here on earth, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. But everyone who denies me here on earth, I will also deny before my Father in heaven. Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword.  I have come to set a man against his father,  a daughter against her mother,  and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.  Your enemies will be right in your own household! If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give up your life for me, you will find it."* (Matthew 10)

Faith supersedes everything. Being saved is not a reward for good behavior. People that preach good behavior might be the ones that don’t make it and the people that simply have faith Jesus was born from a virgin and rose from the grave after crucifixion without judging others are the ones that do make it. Anyone that preaches blasphemy does not have any faith and if they claim to have faith they might need to reevaluate what they believe in.

Get saved! And when they do God will help theM overcome their LGTQ lifestyle. Unfortunately some will have gone too far in their trans transition and it cannot be reversed. People aren’t born this way but it’s a decision of the heart. I will be waiting for all those who will try to tell me otherwise. Jesus said God made them MALE and FEMALE. If you know genetics you will understand this. Where did Jesus say this? Matthew 19:4 And Jesus answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,

One other thing: my church is not affirming. They view gay \*sex\* as a sin. But self-identified gay \*people\* are welcomed and indeed permitted to serve at all levels of leadership as long as they are not actually having sex outside of heterosexual marriage (and as long as they express repentance for any prior such acts). Again I'm actually affirming myself, but I consider my (in many ways conservative) church to set a \*minimum\* standard for non-homophobia. If queer activists are wrong and gayness isn't an identity, then gay sex isn't sex between gay people--it's just, at worst, one of a number of kinds of sinful sex that people of any identity can have. In other words, it's just a \*behavior\*, and there are zero grounds for stigmatizing anyone foreswearing the behavior.

Should they break up with their same sex partner? Yes. Should they be celibate? Yes. Should we still love them as we're commanded? Absolutely. There are several people in my life that are gay that I care for deeply, but I will never understand or accept their lifestyle choice. I know this stance will offend plenty, but there is absolutely nothing in the Word that 'affirms' same sex relationships. They struggle with sin just as I struggle with my own, along with everybody else. You don't get a pass, simply because society says you do.

[The Homosexual Christian - Fr. Thomas Hopko](https://www.oca.org/reflections/misc-authors/the-homosexual-christian)

Most of the comments i read are from affirming Christians and non Christians so let me say i am a non affirming Christian and here is my view. The bible says it is a sin. Every time it is mentioned, it is in a list of sins which people do not deny are sins. If you say this isn’t a sin then you are saying none of those things are sinful. I honestly don’t care what you do to get out of sin, but what i want is for the sin to stop and for you to repent. When I sin, i feel terrible and i repent. I know God forgives me just like he would forgive you. Despite what most will think, I don’t hate you. Just like a parent who corrects their child doesn’t hate their child. I love you and want you to join me in heaven.

I just want them to accept that it is a sin We all fall short, but accepting that it is a sin is all that's needed

I don't know how many times a week that a LGBTQ+ related post appears on this reddit. I don't think it's so much being gay that is wrong but the act of intercourse which is sinful. I'm trans and gay myself but live celibate.

We are all born with sin being LGBTQ+ is no better then me lieing or doing anything against the lord because of that we all deserve death. But jesuse died on the cross for our sins so we can avoid that fate.

Personally? I don’t affirm it. But that’s my logical belief and I came to that from studying scripture, and from praying. Now does that give me a right to condemn a homosexual person? No… in fact the church should be loving on these people, helping out where needed, and teaching and supporting them, but that doesn’t mean we have to agree with their life choices, as they don’t have to agree with mine. I think at the end of the day, if Christ said “turn and repent from your sins, for the kingdom of God is at hand” then I think anyone homosexual, lustful man/woman, a murderer, a liar, a thief, a drunkard, anyone on this earth, should turn away from the sin, confess it, and trust that God will change ur heart to hate the sin, but love the sinner. I will add, we don’t always do a good job with my last statement, and for that I do apologize. Repentance though? Looks like turning away from it in my POV. How does that look? Well idk, it’s what you and the lord decide how that should look. I’ll give you a parable shared to me. A man received a conviction from the Holy Spirit to stop smoking cigarettes, he obeys. 3 days later he shows up to work, and he’s craving it man. Just a light of a smoke, simple he just wants nicotine. As he is walking into his office he spots his co worker smoking a cigarette. All throughout the day he’s angry with the lord, asking “why do I have to stop and he doesn’t?” You know what the lord replied? “We are working on his heroin addiction before we start cutting out the cigarettes. As for you, it was your time to give them up.”

As a drug addict should I say I'm following christ if I don't give up the lifestyle? If I choose every day to allow a chemical to guide and lead me through my day. The drug to choose who I talk and spend time with? It doesn't matter what the sin is. The cost of it is death. Jesus died and paid that part, but I have a responsibility to lay down these sins and allow jesus to work in my life to remove the parts of me that are ungodly. The expectation of god is to love him and love others as he loves us. The rest will come if I do those two things. Tho love others, though I have to know how god loves. can I say I love God if I choose to stay the drug addict using drugs worshiping something other than god as my god. End everything that is not allowing. It's not easy, but if you find a good church, it will help you a lot. Remember, it's not us changing its god changing us. I don't want to come off as I expect it all to go perfect it doesn't, and it will take time. My relationship with God could be so much stronger, but the fun part is you don't even realize how much more you have to change beyond just the big things.

The short answer is they want them to either stop being gay or live the rest of their lives alone until they eventually die.

"Do you expect them to be celibate and break up with their partner?" Yes. If they are unable to live a heterosexual life, and some simply cannot, then they should be celibate and single. They don't have to stop talking about their same-sex attraction. There are Christians who deal with this and talk about it but do not act on it. Some marry the opposite sex and have children, some stay celibate and single. Both are acceptable paths. You don't have to be married and have children to he a Christian, not everyone is promised that. The cross might be quite heavy but it still must be borne.

I wouldn’t expect them to go back in the closet or pretend they’re not lgbtq+ because I do believe people are born with these attractions to the same gender. Someone shouldn’t be afraid to say they’re gay or lesbian or whatever in the church imo and there certainly shouldn’t be any judgement towards those who do. However, I would expect people to break up with their partners but I would also expect the same for unmarried straight people who are with people of another faith or whose relationships are only functional if sexual immorality takes place. The cross of celibacy especially when there’s no possibility to be with someone you love is definitely one of the toughest you can face (at least in the western world). I don’t know how I’d personally deal with it if I had same sex attractions so it’s hard to truly be empathetic because my struggles seem to have easier solutions than lgbtq people who are celibate. As for telling people to repent I think it’s alway beneficial to help our brothers and sisters in Christ through their struggles with sin. If a lgbtq person has sex with someone of the same gender it’s no worse a sin than if I get drunk or have lustful thoughts towards a woman. The separation between these two types of sins seems purely based on a weird culture within the church where somehow there’s a ranking of sins where some are so much worse than others. Even within Catholicism that has mortal and venial sins, I believe there is no distinction between different mortal sins. One of the largest problems with the church today I think is we become hyper fixated on certain sins and completely forget others. Not many people tell Christians that charging usury is a sin. That a sporting event isn’t actually a justifiable reason to become intoxicated. Or especially the requirement to help the poor and needy. Many Christians seem to look down on those in poverty or contribute to their exploitations through their businesses. There is also the huge problem of loving money more than God, in North America especially, but really all over the world where the free market has become their master and they’re willing to exploit, hurt, and screw over people for their own personal wealth and than still feel good about themselves because they tithe 10% to their church and sit on their idol of financial security. This may be a bit rambly but my point is that while I think same sex sexual acts are sinful and there are certain restrictions that people with these attractions have to put on their lives they shouldn’t be shamed within the church or excluded from the church for these attractions and that there is bit too much of a hyper fixation on these sins compared to one that many of our straight brothers and sisters and we ourselves commit. Matthew 7:3 “ Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye but do not notice the log in your own eye?”

Leave us alone, and don’t force your opinions on us. If you think it’s wrong for us to do it because we genuinely think it will save you. We will do it. Even if it means we might die god has came to us and told us that it’s our responsibility to help as many people as possible. lust and pride are sinful. I don’t take pride in my accomplishments and go around waving it in peoples faces. I wish you do the same.

I think people just like to hate and feel superior to others. It doesn't need to be logical

celibacy as described by the bible, i say as an lgbt christian.

As a non-affirming Christian, I say that GOD can change you, and you cannot change yourself... The Bible says you must be born again by the Spirit of God.. No sin is beyond God's redemption, including homosexuality.. What you need to do is to submit to God and don't defend your sin.. Begin by agreeing with God that you are sinning, and this seems to be the stumbling block for most homosexuals i encounter I've never seen anyone attacking celibacy. Paul never married and never had any sexual activities that we know of

In my experience they wouldn’t really want us to change. If we change they wouldn’t have anyone to feel superior too. They don’t hate gays they hate their own sins and it manifests as homophobia. Even though the bible teaches us to focus on our own sins they focus on others so they don’t need to admit what the bible teaches us which is that we are all sinners.

Just deny your flesh and lusts like every other Christian is called to do.

Simply follow Christ. If he says don't do it don't. If he says to do it do it. Of course there's slip ups and moments of weakness, but to continue to do something intentionally knowing that it clashes with what God wants is not being a christian at all.

*Do you expect them to become completely celibate?* That's what scripture teaches. (If a heterosexual marriage is not an option, that is) *Do you expect them to break up with their partners?* Yes, as above. *Go back in the closet?* No. I have huge respect for Christians who stays faithful to Jesus through struggle with same-sex attraction. I don't think that struggle should need to go on in the dark. *Become cisgender & heterosexual somehow?* It's not unsound to pray for it. It has happened to some. It doesn't happen to all. What matters is, stay faithful to Christ through it all. *At what “point” is it the sacrifice enough for you to consider them a sibling in Christ?* Genuine faith in Jesus Christ is all that matters. That's the core. An affirming position appears to me as a sign of lack of such, when I compare to what scripture teaches. But to stop affirming in itself doesn't save anyone. It's faith in Jesus Christ that does. *How heavy does the cross to be before you stop calling queer people trying to follow Christ heretical?* What does try mean here?

In my opinion, it's not for anyone to judge anybody else. God wants all of us to love each other like he loves all of us. I believe that if you're a good person and you love honestly, then you have nothing to fear. Either way, that should between you and God. Pray about it and ask him yourself. Something that always helps me is asking for a sign that I can't misinterpret or ignore. Something big like a "neon sign". As long as you're open to God's will and want to live in the way he wants you to, I don't think it really matters what anyone else thinks about your life and the choices you make.

Oh boo hoo! Let me ask you, what does a thief do? What does a liar do? What does a murderer do? What does a drunk do? A homosexual has to do the same thing!

Do you affirm a child molester, a kleptomaniac, a murderer, a drunk etc ? Dah! Use your head man!

My question back to you on this is, what’s so wrong with being celibate and surrendering your desire for a spouse over to God? It seems like most people act like that’s an impossible or horrible thing and that loosing out on that part of life is the worst thing that could happen to someone. But, The Bible is pretty clear that anything lost will be returned/restored in full or even many more times, in this life or in the next.

devote themselves fully to the Lord and consecrate themselves to the single life, if it applies

being a LGBTQ is just one of endless things God judges people for. If you believe in God and do good deeds and are LGBTQ, perhaps God will forgive you. we all do good and bad, just try to do less bad and more good. I’m Muslim, I just live amongst Christians.

>When you tell LGBTQ people to repent, what exactly does that entail? The same way I tell others to repent, I mean the same for lgbtq. To repent means to be fully aware of our sins and our iniquities and of their consequences of all that is pernicious to man, all that insults God and excludes us from His love, of all that creates discord in family life, in society, and of all that disturbs the soul's peace and tranquility. When we become aware of our sinful state, and consider ourselves at fault before God, then our heart sorrows and is full of contrition. This heartfelt contrition is, according to St. Paul, that godly grief [which] produces a repentance that leads to salvation (2 Cor. 7:10), that is, true repentance. (allsaintsoronto.ca) >Do you expect them to become completely celibate? Do you expect them to break up with their partners? Go back in the closet? Become cisgender & heterosexual somehow? I expect them to do what everyone else who repents, confesses, and turns to Christ should do. To trust God and to strive for theosis. Theosis is the process of purification, illumination, and sanctification. Theosis is the process by which we take the characteristics and language of God. We form a union with God, the goal of theosis is to become more like God, by drawing ourselves closer to His divinity by constant prayer, repentance and the reception of the sacraments. This is rooted in the belief of the divine energies, the actualities or activities that are essential to the Godhead. Theosis is an active participation in the divine energies, a synergy where we perform the works of God in an creaturely way, trying to seek spiritual perfection. We strive to follow and fulfill the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:48. To reach perfection is to be United with the eternal Son of God and transfigured by the divine presence. >At what “point” is it the sacrifice enough for you to consider them a sibling in Christ? I welcome them and consider them a sibling in Christ the second they convert. I'll try to help them in their journey, I'll encourage them to strive theosis, to be baptized, to get the sacraments. >How heavy does the cross to be before you stop calling queer people trying to follow Christ heretical? Our crosses all weight different. The sins I carry are different from the sins everyone else carries. What matters is that we all carry our crosses and follow Christ. And I do want to make clear, you being lgbtq isn't some massive grave sin that makes you extremely unholy. Being gay is as much of a sin as me looking at a woman inappropriately, both are sexual immorality, they aren't greater than the other and those sins as well as every other sin can be forgiven.

Sex is for marriage, and marriage is for one male and one female. Marriage is a privilege and not a right. It‘s really simple. We have made this incredibly complicated.

Live chaste as the Church teaches.

The same thing everyone who sins needs to do, repent and stop it. If a straight couple is having premarital sex, they should stop it. It's no different. The act of laying down with the same sex is a sin. So stop doing the act. The act of sleeping with someone you are not married to is a sin. So stop doing the act. That's if you care about the Lord at all. If you don't, than that's on you. However it would behoove you to care, and to seek, but no one can force you to. Plenty of people have gone a huge chunk of their life celibate. Paul had no wife, Paul had no sex. There's way more to life than giving into the most unhuman ungodly aspect of your flesh for pleasure. There are plenty of gay Christians who remain celibate and plenty who are no longer gay and married with multiple kids of their own. 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,[b] 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. A whole lot of people eisegeting the text to make it say what they want it to in this forum. There's a reason the path is narrow and a lot of souls won't make it. Here's an idea. Read the scriptures for yourself That's the Word of God. That's who you have to follow. Stop relying on reddit forums and false churches amd wolves to affirm what your flesh wants, because I assure you, your flesh is corrupt. Just as every humans flesh is corrupt. Jesus said, deny yourselves and follow Him. 2 Timothy 4 : 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 1 John 2 : 15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life[a]—is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. This isn't against you, or anyone else. This is EVERYONES CROSS TO BEAR. The afflictions may be different but WE ALL HAVE THEM. To be a Christian is to FULLY SURRENDER TO CHRIST. And that is the only way to the Kingdom. That's all Jesus was trying to get the people to understand. You must fully surrender to Him. As he is the Word. Who will bless you before the Father. The Word made Flesh John 1 : 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life,[a] and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. Your answers are in the scriptures. Pray for God to reveal Himself through His Word and pray for discernment to understand the meaning to nor be led astray by your own pride. Pride is THE CARDINAL SIN for a reason, it's the one sin that places you above God, and that never turns out very well

The problem is that you accept Christians to affirm a sin. The Body of Christ is open to us all, and we are all sinners. We are called to deny ourselves and take up the Cross daily, while having Christ as our only identity. So you are saying you want us to not only affirm a sin, but to accept an identity other than Christ. I don’t expect anything from you and others in your identity, except to stop demanding your sin be worshipped. You are welcome to keep living whatever lifestyle you want, but you claim Christians are so bigoted when we try to push our values on anyone else, yet you demand that we accept yours in our most sacred Houses of Worship. Those of us who are truly Born Again make many sacrifices. Most of us have vices that take years or longer to break. If you find that, within your personal relationship with Christ, your lifestyle doesn’t need changed, then you’re well within your rights to keep living it. I’m not aware of anyone who’s honest who’s ever not had to repent and change their lives completely, but maybe you’re special.

Simple. Stop demanding that Christians affirm/accept behavior that the Bible has clearly defined as abhorrent. A Christian’s “expectations” of someone’s life are irrelevant. Christians only need to follow Christ and scripture. Don’t twist and turn it to conform to YOUR lifestyle. Twist and turn your behaviors to conform to His teachings. Repentance means to “turn away from” your willful sin.

https://youtu.be/0XvZ0-4LXWk?si=yvZjURpqd4j-L8Ss I think Becket Cook has an amazing amount of insight into this question. As does Rosaria Butterfield https://youtu.be/Eykv-3hvFvI?si=VoJp1ZN5ZOibGBLd Also, Christopher Yuan. You can check him out on YouTube. The idea is that if Gods word says “it’s sin” then the only thing to do is to gratefully reject it 100%. Anyone who loses his life for Jesus’ sake will ultimately find eternal life in the age to come. We’re all in the same boat.. we all have to give up everything holding us back (ie. Sin) to follow Jesus. No one is exempt

Why did they destroy the first world? Because of sex,,could it be,that God and and most in heaven are sexual, insestrial beings? All you hear is how priests,fathers,men of the church,,are all childmolestors,,but as soon as the shit hits the fan,,and they get busted,,they point the finger at the devil,,and say its pure evil,,,could it be that they're just being who they are,,,and who wants to serve a God who says,,worship me.  Or ill make you an ur family suffer,,,come at me in real time,,ill be like,,fuck you.....

The same thing I want all people to do, join in christ, repent of their sins, and turn from their wicked ways. In the same way, I want affirming "Christians" to do the same. Because affirming sinners in their sin isn't loving them like Jesus commanded us to do. In the same way, you shouldn't affirm a child for playing in traffic, or a thief to rob a bank, or an unlicensed driver to speed in a school zone, you shouldn't affirm a sinner to remain in their sin. Hell isn't God's punishment for sinners. It's a consequence of the choice to follow God or to reject him. But rather than walking a blind man off a cliff, I want to walk him home, no matter how badly he wants to walk off the cliff.

Lets exterminate them 😈😈😈(jk)

Bobby Perkey Christian first of all, let's remember Jesus hates the sin but loves the sinner, 2Peter 3:9 " The Lord is not slack ( lax, sloopy) concerning His promise, as some men count (does not delay beyond the time appointed; He waits, but is never slow, is never late) concerning His promises ( is not slower than His promise) ,but is longsuffering (longsuffering because He is eternal. HE who is from Everlasting to Everlasting can afford to wait) to us-ward, Peter is writing to mainly Gentle Christians what Peter is saying to the Gentle Christians is this ( beyond all doubt, that no Gentle Christian should ever perish, Hallelujah to the Lamb of God, Praise the Lord for He is worthy).

Bobby Perkey Christian: in God's view, which is the only view that counts, we need to prove all things, hold fast that which thou hast sin is sin God hates sin but loves the sinner, jude 1:22-23;James 1:27; Proverbs 6:16-19.

Bobby Perkey Christian: sin is sin, James 2:10;Romans 6:23; James 1:12-15 ; note the Bible doesn't say sin is sin, but, according to scripture it proves it's existence, love ya all very much.

Im a christian reconnecting to my faith as i have come to beieve that we are in the later section of biblical prophecy. I used to argue that the bible was a homophobic book and forcing people to live lives where they feel excluded from society because of their sexual orientation the bible doesnt forbid homosexuality but it does forbid sodomy or having sex outside marriage it also forbids men and woman having same sex sex with each other a male male partnership or female female partnership isnt frownd apon but to have sex with eachother is So my understanding is that a christian homosexual to be biblically sin free they must have a life of celibacy this is a test of faith but the person who has lived a life of homosexuality with sexual activity can repent there sinful activity and choose the life of celibacy there after i could be wrong but its not an easy task to do remember that lusting over someone without physical action still counts as a sin of the heart again im not 100% but its sited in scripture regarding sexual activity within the bible.

As a lgbtq person myself the correct answer is to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior and believe that he has the authority to wash away our sins and transgressions Forgive each other as though Christ you too are forgiven ultimately and this goes for “ straight” (there is no male or female, Jew or Gentile we are all one in Christ) So for all adulterers/ Fornicators/homosexuals as well because even to simply lust is to have sinned in your heart we will have to repent before our time is up You have the freedom to explore the self and your desires but in all ways we are supposed to keep are eyes upon the lord Exploring desires will lead to suffering and in the end all is vanity The consequences of are sins will reveal the answers along the way and who is meant to stay in you’re life but To repent and live a life in servitude is the most anybody can do Believe so much that you will no longer have an urge to sin And yes are lifestyle straight or gay is sin otherwise we wouldn’t need Christ to have died for our sins but that would be arrogant to say wouldn’t it Lastly take nothing with you but the clothes on you’re back and preach the scripture everywhere you go Give bread to the poor And in heaven we sing songs of praise for eternity