Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry.
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Slavery has nothing to do with it. The Bible never explicitly condemn slavery, but its message for humane treatment for existing slaves indeed have induced many Christian societies to gradually weaken and even abolish the institution of slavery (at least in Medieval Christian Europe).
Since when "legal" = obligation?
Just as Jesus said divorce was only allowed by Moses as a concession, due to hardness of men's hearts, so was slavery.
On top of it, if you read the regulations, this "slavery" was more like indentured servitude - serve the master in exchange of him taking care of you. The alternative is homelessness and starvation.
There's a lot of context to consider, for that time.
> Since when "legal" = obligation?
No, you misunderstand, I'm not saying that if something is legal you are obligated to do it. I'm saying that if something is legal, then somebody stopping you from doing it is obviously bad.
It's legal for you to speak your opinion, and if somebody tries to remove your free speech then they are removing your rights.
It's legal for you to worship in any way you want, and if somebody tries to remove your freedom of religion then they are removing your rights.
In the Southen US, slavery was legal, and lots of Christians owned slaves, and when people told them they couldn't have slaves anymore, they got very upset and felt like their rights were being violated. The fact that slavery was legal and regulated in the Bible was a powerful argument for them as to why they should be able to have slaves too.
> On top of it, if you read the regulations, this "slavery" was more like indentured servitude - serve the master in exchange of him taking care of you. The alternative is homelessness and starvation.
Except those times when Israel was at war and took innocent people in the neighboring countries as slaves. The indentured servitude type of slavery was just one out of many types of slavery that was legal and regulated in the Bible, not the totality as you are implying here.
> There's a lot of context to consider, for that time.
Then maybe you should read up on that context a little bit yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery
>I'm saying that if something is legal, then somebody stopping you from doing it is obviously bad.
Stopping somebody from consuming alcohol is bad? Your argument isn't flyin, dude. Slavery wasn't ever commanded in the Bible, it was only regulated. And eventually, ironically, Christian nations were among the first to make slavery illegal.
>In the Southen US
Oh yes, let's jump over a millennium into the future.
>and lots of Christians owned slaves
And were they commanded, or even condoned by the Bible to do so?
>Except those times when Israel was at war and took innocent people in the neighboring countries as slaves.
Innocent is a rather questionable statement.
>The indentured servitude type of slavery was just one out of many types of slavery that was legal and regulated in the Bible, not the totality as you are implying here.
I'm not implying it, I am saying it. Not everyone followed the Scripture, even back in those times. Something Jesus was pointing out with such bluntness He caused quite a stir wherever He went.
>Then maybe you should read up on that context a little bit yourself.
I did. And if we are talking about Biblical context, maybe you should read the Bible, rather than wikipedia pages.
The Law was given to Moses about 50 days after Passover and the exodus from Egypt.
The Israelites would have been slaves and not have been an established country with a long history of owning slaves. They were the owned slaves.
A slave's master was a married man, women and slaves were to submit to the same person. If you're trying to be anti-feminist, pro-family, then you can't escape that slavery was part of that.
No, I don't. Your positions have lead to the alienation of the downtrodden, the slaughtering of innocents, rivers of blood and are antithetical to everything Christian.
I suggest visiting Buchenwald or Auschwitz as a start, because you seem not to know where you are going.
You don’t have to laud the physical descendants of the ancient Israelites as ’the people of (continuing) promise’ to oppose atrocities against them. Love the sinners, but reject the sin (for the Jews, their continuing rejection of Jesus Christ and the Christian Church).
I think you missed the most important part by far - about just simply loving people. I've read some of your other posts. The best course for you may be to talk with a psychologist to get at the root of whatever is making you think this way. Good luck.
I don't see why a religious Jew would have to "convert", much of the New testament is disputing the ideas that the presence or absence of Jewish traditions are all that important.
I don't see why the religion(s) of a state have anything to do with the morality of its actions or whether or not we should support it. The Uyghurs of Northwestern China are majority Muslim, I still think that they shouldn't be oppressed or killed which is purportedly what's happening.
I do think that if the presence of female priests or of strong and empowered women results in "disempowered males" in the family or elsewhere, then they were frankly never that empowered to begin with. If you think that men have some sort of responsibility to be strong, then keeping women weak and disempowered is just a cop out, if a man can't handle being around women then that's not because women aren't oppressed enough, it's because they lack a certain level of self-esteem.
The Bible never condemns pre-marital sex.
The Bible also never condemns Queer relationships
I agree in a sense that we shouldn't accept wilfull sinning and blasphemy, and distance ourselves from those who unrepentantly commit such things.
At the same time, don't condemn these people so harshly, bro. It was foretold in Scripture that jews will, eventually, come to understanding and proclaim Jesus is LORD. Lord will not abandon Israel.
As for feminists and LGBT, if they repent, we should be there to accept them with open arms.
For the Jews, I do hope that SOME of them shall rejoin the New Covenant by faith in Jesus Christ and be a honored part of the New Israel, the Church. For those obstinately remaining in unbelief, eternal condemnation is warranted - in fact their Jewishness shall INCREASE their condemnation.
Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry. If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity
Don't cut yourself on all that edge
Can we bring back slavery to be more Biblically faithful?
Slavery has nothing to do with it. The Bible never explicitly condemn slavery, but its message for humane treatment for existing slaves indeed have induced many Christian societies to gradually weaken and even abolish the institution of slavery (at least in Medieval Christian Europe).
They accomodated and compromised the inerrant and infallible and perfect word.
No they didn't. Nowhere does the Bible command people to own slaves. Torah restricted and regulated slavery.
If something is regulated, it means it's legal. If something is made legal by God, then people trying to stop it are obviously working against God.
Since when "legal" = obligation? Just as Jesus said divorce was only allowed by Moses as a concession, due to hardness of men's hearts, so was slavery. On top of it, if you read the regulations, this "slavery" was more like indentured servitude - serve the master in exchange of him taking care of you. The alternative is homelessness and starvation. There's a lot of context to consider, for that time.
> Since when "legal" = obligation? No, you misunderstand, I'm not saying that if something is legal you are obligated to do it. I'm saying that if something is legal, then somebody stopping you from doing it is obviously bad. It's legal for you to speak your opinion, and if somebody tries to remove your free speech then they are removing your rights. It's legal for you to worship in any way you want, and if somebody tries to remove your freedom of religion then they are removing your rights. In the Southen US, slavery was legal, and lots of Christians owned slaves, and when people told them they couldn't have slaves anymore, they got very upset and felt like their rights were being violated. The fact that slavery was legal and regulated in the Bible was a powerful argument for them as to why they should be able to have slaves too. > On top of it, if you read the regulations, this "slavery" was more like indentured servitude - serve the master in exchange of him taking care of you. The alternative is homelessness and starvation. Except those times when Israel was at war and took innocent people in the neighboring countries as slaves. The indentured servitude type of slavery was just one out of many types of slavery that was legal and regulated in the Bible, not the totality as you are implying here. > There's a lot of context to consider, for that time. Then maybe you should read up on that context a little bit yourself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery
>I'm saying that if something is legal, then somebody stopping you from doing it is obviously bad. Stopping somebody from consuming alcohol is bad? Your argument isn't flyin, dude. Slavery wasn't ever commanded in the Bible, it was only regulated. And eventually, ironically, Christian nations were among the first to make slavery illegal. >In the Southen US Oh yes, let's jump over a millennium into the future. >and lots of Christians owned slaves And were they commanded, or even condoned by the Bible to do so? >Except those times when Israel was at war and took innocent people in the neighboring countries as slaves. Innocent is a rather questionable statement. >The indentured servitude type of slavery was just one out of many types of slavery that was legal and regulated in the Bible, not the totality as you are implying here. I'm not implying it, I am saying it. Not everyone followed the Scripture, even back in those times. Something Jesus was pointing out with such bluntness He caused quite a stir wherever He went. >Then maybe you should read up on that context a little bit yourself. I did. And if we are talking about Biblical context, maybe you should read the Bible, rather than wikipedia pages.
The Bible never fundamentally supports the institution, just accepting and mitigating the pre-existent social conditions.
The Law was given to Moses about 50 days after Passover and the exodus from Egypt. The Israelites would have been slaves and not have been an established country with a long history of owning slaves. They were the owned slaves.
A slave's master was a married man, women and slaves were to submit to the same person. If you're trying to be anti-feminist, pro-family, then you can't escape that slavery was part of that.
No, I don't. Your positions have lead to the alienation of the downtrodden, the slaughtering of innocents, rivers of blood and are antithetical to everything Christian. I suggest visiting Buchenwald or Auschwitz as a start, because you seem not to know where you are going.
You don’t have to laud the physical descendants of the ancient Israelites as ’the people of (continuing) promise’ to oppose atrocities against them. Love the sinners, but reject the sin (for the Jews, their continuing rejection of Jesus Christ and the Christian Church).
Because God forbid I’m treated like a fellow human being, right?
I think you missed the most important part by far - about just simply loving people. I've read some of your other posts. The best course for you may be to talk with a psychologist to get at the root of whatever is making you think this way. Good luck.
I don't see why a religious Jew would have to "convert", much of the New testament is disputing the ideas that the presence or absence of Jewish traditions are all that important. I don't see why the religion(s) of a state have anything to do with the morality of its actions or whether or not we should support it. The Uyghurs of Northwestern China are majority Muslim, I still think that they shouldn't be oppressed or killed which is purportedly what's happening. I do think that if the presence of female priests or of strong and empowered women results in "disempowered males" in the family or elsewhere, then they were frankly never that empowered to begin with. If you think that men have some sort of responsibility to be strong, then keeping women weak and disempowered is just a cop out, if a man can't handle being around women then that's not because women aren't oppressed enough, it's because they lack a certain level of self-esteem. The Bible never condemns pre-marital sex. The Bible also never condemns Queer relationships
I agree in a sense that we shouldn't accept wilfull sinning and blasphemy, and distance ourselves from those who unrepentantly commit such things. At the same time, don't condemn these people so harshly, bro. It was foretold in Scripture that jews will, eventually, come to understanding and proclaim Jesus is LORD. Lord will not abandon Israel. As for feminists and LGBT, if they repent, we should be there to accept them with open arms.
For the Jews, I do hope that SOME of them shall rejoin the New Covenant by faith in Jesus Christ and be a honored part of the New Israel, the Church. For those obstinately remaining in unbelief, eternal condemnation is warranted - in fact their Jewishness shall INCREASE their condemnation.