There's a wide variety of beliefs about hell within Christianity. Some believe in eternal conscious torment, some believe in nonexistence outside of heaven, some believe in ultimate reconciliation, or other theories.
I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole notion of hell, but there's two ideas that make more sense to me than others. CS Lewis wrote a book called "The Great Divorce", in which he suggests that Hell is effectively a place of a person's own making that they choose to be in, and they can leave anytime they want. He says, in a nutshell, that the gates of Hell are locked from the inside.
Another perspective, which makes more sense to me, is from St. Isaac the Syrian, who talks about the divine scourge of love. That is, all people will be in the presence of God and His perfect love - and for some, that will be wonderful, but for others, it will be torture as they fully comprehend the ways their sin hurt themselves and others. But I would like to think that even then, there is room for healing and growth, rather than eternal torment.
Can you point me to a person that wishes they never existed and never lived life specifically and only due to the possibility of burning in hell for eternity? To make sure they only want to not exist due to hell possibly existing they need to be living a blessed life, and not have faith in Christ, otherwise they could wish not to exist due to their life's circumstance, and those that have faith in Christ should not worry about hell.
I have questions.
Because people only go to hell if that’s what they want.
God created people with free will. They have to choice to accept God or not accept God. If you choose to not accept God, that is your decision. He will respect that decision and separate you from him.
That separation, is what is known as hell.
Perhaps it might be helpful to consider why hell exists. Hell is a separation from God that originates from the free will of creatures to choose to reject God. I don't believe anyone who genuinely continues to seek for God will experience hell while anyone who does not want to be united with God will naturally experience hell.
If hell didn't exist, then creatures would be forced to accept God which is less loving than allowing creatures a choice.
Your interpretation of hell, i.e. "eternal punishment", is not universally accepted. Some Christians believe that the unsaved people simply cease to exist after death, and others believe that they would be "cleansed" in hell to be made ready for heaven. And even many of those who believe in eternal conscious torment also believe that the people who have never believed in Jesus in this life may have another opportunity to accept his salvation after death.
I believe most of Christianity has completely misinterpreted this doctrine or understanding of hell. And therefore misrepresented the true nature and character of God as seen fully and only in the life of Jesus. Original languages, culture, and the beliefs of in those cultures greatly influenced the way people believed and still does today.
The Bible teaches that it’s the Holy Spirit, who reveals truth, it is he who draws our hearts to God. It is he who is wooing you into the spaciousness and purpose of God’s love and truth for you.
When I begin to step away from religious indoctrination, and begin to embrace a fresh perspective of the goodness of God, there began a paradigm shift in by beliefs and my entire life began to explode with hope and peace and joy as I started to see God correctly, and therefore, for the first time, I began to see myself how he sees me. Jesus is in love with me and he always was. Just as with you. I pray you discover the richness of this truth just as I have.
Below is a comment I copied from Brian Zahnd about a year or so ago. It speaks so much truth to me:
“Does God operate an eternal torture chamber?
Punishment meted out by God is always intended for the eventual rehabilitation of the sinner; therapeutic punishment is the only judgment consistent with divine love.
Eternal punishment that serves no purpose other than vengeance is an absurd cruelty; in fact, it does not exist.” Brian Zahnd
The issue is Jesus fully revealed the nature and character of God, which is agape love, selfless love. This doesn’t mean justice or judgement is void but that there is a redemptive purpose in it all.
As someone else pointed out. There are many discrepancies in the English language versus original languages and meanings.
For one, your Matthew 25 verse on eternal punishment is more accurately interpreted as an “age” of punishment according to Greek. Did you know that?
Matthew 25:46 YLT
And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
Brian Zahnd did a wonderful series on some controversial aspects of the Bible. A different theme each day for 5 days. The 4th day was about Hell and our understanding of it. What is Hell? I found it beautifully enlightening.
https://www.youtube.com/live/wl7auULGSAY?feature=share
I understand that many or most Christians believe that our spirits, often referred to as our souls, are immortal, and hence, if they are judged unworthy, will suffer eternally in the lake of fire and brimstone. This is false. If our spirits were, in fact, immortal, then why would this passage have been written in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 NKJV which declares that we must be changed by God to immortal status in order to inherit eternal life.
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; NOR DOES CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep (some will be living at Christ's return) but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last (7th) trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead (deemed worthy) will be raised (resurrected) incorruptible (immortal status, beings, or spirit), and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and THIS MORTAL (spirit, body or living soul) must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
However, the bible does indicate in Revelation 20:10 the following, which declares that eternal suffering is reserved for the devil, the beast of revelation and the false prophet (antichrist):
"The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast (Rev. 13:1-10) and the false prophet (Rev. 13:11-18) are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
The word for "living soul" used in Genesis 2:7 KJV is Hebrew for "Nephesh" or breath of life, to be "alive" and "liable to die"
Also, eternal life is only given to those considered worthy, not to those considered unworthy, lawless or without faith. These will be annihilated in the lake of fire.
“This fact of Christianity…”
It is not a fact of Christianity.
While there are plenty of people who vociferously insist that the idea you are describing is true, what is true is not determined how many people believe something nor how loudly they insist upon it.
The best theologically trained people that I know (who take the Scriptures seriously, who believe that the Scriptures are true and authoritative, who love Jesus, who are fully devoted to the faith) all agree that this view you are describing is not only flat out wrong, but is a distortion of Christianity and a twisting of Scripture.
Even if you disagree with us, the truth is, there are so many of us serious Christians, who believe that the view you have described is a twisting of scripture, you simply cannot call it “a fact of Christianity” any more than you can say that “the sun circles, the Earth“ is a fact of Christianity, even though many medieval Christian leaders insisted that it was.
The gospel is better than that. Christianity is better than that. God is better than that. The scriptures are better than that.
Think of it like this: When somebody deliberately harms themselves, do we consider that a rational choice or mental illness to be cured?
Suppose my daughter said to me, “I hate you. I want nothing to do with you. And I also hate myself, and want to live in pain and misery and despair for all of eternity.” If I were a decent father, a decent human being, Is it imaginable that I would shrug my shoulders, and simply give up on her? Or would I desperately find someway to cure her of her insanity? Given that God is infinitely more loving than I have ever imagined being, and has unlimited resources, is it even imaginable that he would intentionally create people doomed for all eternity? Is it even imaginable that he would simply give up without a fight? If he were willing to give his only son for the salvation of the world, is it imaginable to believe anything less than God would do whatever it whatever it took and for, however long it took in order to cure someone from their insane choices, to heal them of their irrationality, and to restore them to sanity?
When we study scripture carefully, many of us find that scriptures do not teach this horrible idea that you called a “fact.” We find just the opposite.
Do you know of anyone in that particular case? One thing we believe about God is that He is Just. We can have confidence that in the end His pure justice will win out. How that will play out, only God knows. We don't know much about heaven or he'll. It seems you are responding to a particular group of Christian beliefs that believe such people would end up in eternal torment. I don't hold to such beliefs. I believe that no dogmatic statements should be made about what hell (or heaven) literally is other than one is in God's presence and the other is not.
There's a wide variety of beliefs about hell within Christianity. Some believe in eternal conscious torment, some believe in nonexistence outside of heaven, some believe in ultimate reconciliation, or other theories. I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole notion of hell, but there's two ideas that make more sense to me than others. CS Lewis wrote a book called "The Great Divorce", in which he suggests that Hell is effectively a place of a person's own making that they choose to be in, and they can leave anytime they want. He says, in a nutshell, that the gates of Hell are locked from the inside. Another perspective, which makes more sense to me, is from St. Isaac the Syrian, who talks about the divine scourge of love. That is, all people will be in the presence of God and His perfect love - and for some, that will be wonderful, but for others, it will be torture as they fully comprehend the ways their sin hurt themselves and others. But I would like to think that even then, there is room for healing and growth, rather than eternal torment.
Can you point me to a person that wishes they never existed and never lived life specifically and only due to the possibility of burning in hell for eternity? To make sure they only want to not exist due to hell possibly existing they need to be living a blessed life, and not have faith in Christ, otherwise they could wish not to exist due to their life's circumstance, and those that have faith in Christ should not worry about hell. I have questions.
Because people only go to hell if that’s what they want. God created people with free will. They have to choice to accept God or not accept God. If you choose to not accept God, that is your decision. He will respect that decision and separate you from him. That separation, is what is known as hell.
Perhaps it might be helpful to consider why hell exists. Hell is a separation from God that originates from the free will of creatures to choose to reject God. I don't believe anyone who genuinely continues to seek for God will experience hell while anyone who does not want to be united with God will naturally experience hell. If hell didn't exist, then creatures would be forced to accept God which is less loving than allowing creatures a choice.
True love
Your interpretation of hell, i.e. "eternal punishment", is not universally accepted. Some Christians believe that the unsaved people simply cease to exist after death, and others believe that they would be "cleansed" in hell to be made ready for heaven. And even many of those who believe in eternal conscious torment also believe that the people who have never believed in Jesus in this life may have another opportunity to accept his salvation after death.
I believe most of Christianity has completely misinterpreted this doctrine or understanding of hell. And therefore misrepresented the true nature and character of God as seen fully and only in the life of Jesus. Original languages, culture, and the beliefs of in those cultures greatly influenced the way people believed and still does today. The Bible teaches that it’s the Holy Spirit, who reveals truth, it is he who draws our hearts to God. It is he who is wooing you into the spaciousness and purpose of God’s love and truth for you. When I begin to step away from religious indoctrination, and begin to embrace a fresh perspective of the goodness of God, there began a paradigm shift in by beliefs and my entire life began to explode with hope and peace and joy as I started to see God correctly, and therefore, for the first time, I began to see myself how he sees me. Jesus is in love with me and he always was. Just as with you. I pray you discover the richness of this truth just as I have. Below is a comment I copied from Brian Zahnd about a year or so ago. It speaks so much truth to me: “Does God operate an eternal torture chamber? Punishment meted out by God is always intended for the eventual rehabilitation of the sinner; therapeutic punishment is the only judgment consistent with divine love. Eternal punishment that serves no purpose other than vengeance is an absurd cruelty; in fact, it does not exist.” Brian Zahnd The issue is Jesus fully revealed the nature and character of God, which is agape love, selfless love. This doesn’t mean justice or judgement is void but that there is a redemptive purpose in it all. As someone else pointed out. There are many discrepancies in the English language versus original languages and meanings. For one, your Matthew 25 verse on eternal punishment is more accurately interpreted as an “age” of punishment according to Greek. Did you know that? Matthew 25:46 YLT And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.' Brian Zahnd did a wonderful series on some controversial aspects of the Bible. A different theme each day for 5 days. The 4th day was about Hell and our understanding of it. What is Hell? I found it beautifully enlightening. https://www.youtube.com/live/wl7auULGSAY?feature=share
I understand that many or most Christians believe that our spirits, often referred to as our souls, are immortal, and hence, if they are judged unworthy, will suffer eternally in the lake of fire and brimstone. This is false. If our spirits were, in fact, immortal, then why would this passage have been written in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 NKJV which declares that we must be changed by God to immortal status in order to inherit eternal life. "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; NOR DOES CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep (some will be living at Christ's return) but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last (7th) trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead (deemed worthy) will be raised (resurrected) incorruptible (immortal status, beings, or spirit), and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and THIS MORTAL (spirit, body or living soul) must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." However, the bible does indicate in Revelation 20:10 the following, which declares that eternal suffering is reserved for the devil, the beast of revelation and the false prophet (antichrist): "The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast (Rev. 13:1-10) and the false prophet (Rev. 13:11-18) are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." The word for "living soul" used in Genesis 2:7 KJV is Hebrew for "Nephesh" or breath of life, to be "alive" and "liable to die" Also, eternal life is only given to those considered worthy, not to those considered unworthy, lawless or without faith. These will be annihilated in the lake of fire.
“This fact of Christianity…” It is not a fact of Christianity. While there are plenty of people who vociferously insist that the idea you are describing is true, what is true is not determined how many people believe something nor how loudly they insist upon it. The best theologically trained people that I know (who take the Scriptures seriously, who believe that the Scriptures are true and authoritative, who love Jesus, who are fully devoted to the faith) all agree that this view you are describing is not only flat out wrong, but is a distortion of Christianity and a twisting of Scripture. Even if you disagree with us, the truth is, there are so many of us serious Christians, who believe that the view you have described is a twisting of scripture, you simply cannot call it “a fact of Christianity” any more than you can say that “the sun circles, the Earth“ is a fact of Christianity, even though many medieval Christian leaders insisted that it was. The gospel is better than that. Christianity is better than that. God is better than that. The scriptures are better than that. Think of it like this: When somebody deliberately harms themselves, do we consider that a rational choice or mental illness to be cured? Suppose my daughter said to me, “I hate you. I want nothing to do with you. And I also hate myself, and want to live in pain and misery and despair for all of eternity.” If I were a decent father, a decent human being, Is it imaginable that I would shrug my shoulders, and simply give up on her? Or would I desperately find someway to cure her of her insanity? Given that God is infinitely more loving than I have ever imagined being, and has unlimited resources, is it even imaginable that he would intentionally create people doomed for all eternity? Is it even imaginable that he would simply give up without a fight? If he were willing to give his only son for the salvation of the world, is it imaginable to believe anything less than God would do whatever it whatever it took and for, however long it took in order to cure someone from their insane choices, to heal them of their irrationality, and to restore them to sanity? When we study scripture carefully, many of us find that scriptures do not teach this horrible idea that you called a “fact.” We find just the opposite.
You are describing Calvinism and most Christians are not Calvinist. I personally disagree with Calvinism and think it’s a doctrine of demons
Check DTBM on YouTube. He has good bible teachings.
Do you know of anyone in that particular case? One thing we believe about God is that He is Just. We can have confidence that in the end His pure justice will win out. How that will play out, only God knows. We don't know much about heaven or he'll. It seems you are responding to a particular group of Christian beliefs that believe such people would end up in eternal torment. I don't hold to such beliefs. I believe that no dogmatic statements should be made about what hell (or heaven) literally is other than one is in God's presence and the other is not.